Guild Wars 2

Obindo.6802:

It dominates in teamfight and it’s mobility and it’s +1 capabilities is what makes it strongest class in game and essential.

OK, so you meant not “strongest class” but “strongest class in a very special part (called Pro League match) of the game”.

Neither in Roaming nor in Solo Q Revenant is strong. It’s mediocre at best.

Btw. I doubt it dominates in teamfights focused by 2 condi warrs, 2 DHs, 2 mesmers or 2 condi reapers or simply when no heal- / cleanse bot like ele or druid is around. It is dependant on babysitting like e.g. the meta reaper.

Obindo.6802:

Still strongest class in the game

…only aginst Power Warriors.

To the posters who quoted me:

I play WvW Roaming / sPvP 99% of my time. Should have mentioned this…

The DPS part of my posting was just a sidenote. To be honest, I don’t care about these things.

I messed around with Axe/Wh+GS combo in WvW today and it works miles better than pre-patch. GS is simply more reliable now. The only reason I still prefer D/Wh+Axe/Focus is the 1.200 Focus range.

So I am pretty happy with the patch. But I guess I will delete my Revenant (and create a DH or Warr to give it the ascended gear). This class is in a ridiculous state. Even my Power Reaper facerolls it now.

I don’t care about the Lich change. The Viper Horror build always felt like an exploit of game mechanics.

Don’t underestimate that 0.11/0.06 aftercast reduction! The effect is huge. It’s comparable to the former thief 1h-sword aftercast reductions.

GS auto feels way more responsive now. Off course it is still too slow to hit ultramobile builds like the typical thief, but there is definitely an improvement. Even in PvE – where mobs don’t run around – it just feels better and that means more fun to use.

Due to the faster auto chain the GS DPS should also be a bit higher.

I love the Axe buffs. Nothing more to say here.

Silv.9207:

It is good, yes, but if you want to use other traits you can do it without lose too much in a lot of situations.

It’s mandatory in every single non PvE power build.

Muchacho.2390:

Well it is hardly mandatory when a we have meta builds that dont use it at all.

Honestly i would rather Anet focuses on necros real problems then on vp.

The meta reaper’s purpose can’t be fulfilled in shroud, that’s why this build does not run Soulreaping. And as we all know, the meta reaper dies in 2 seconds.

Please stop that stupid metabuild argumentation! It makes no sense! Not a single player in this game finds itself in an environment like in Pro League when he presses the “Compete” button.

Mea.5491:

So when did we start hating the Necro AGAIN? :P When HoT came out everyone was crazy about the Reaper. I don’t really follow updates and don’t use meta builds so I don’t know what’s going on…

Season 2:
-Mercenary Amulet (Power, Condi Dmg, Vitality, Toughness),
-50% Rise!,
-easy perma chill on target (totally destroyed targets rotations, cleanse not possible),
-chill alone (besides its nasty slowdown/cooldown effect) dealt 600+ DPS,
-8 seconds stability every 20 seconds in shroud

Season 4:
-Carrion Amulet (no Toughness),
-chill duration halved (no perma chill),
-33% Rise!,
-chill only deals significant dmg. when you land RS 5+4 combo,
-only 5 seconds stability every 25 seconds in shroud

Condi Reaper was clearly OP. Unfortunately the Rise! and stability nerf hit Power Reaper hard too. That’s was not nessessary.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

this one here is more of a fun build for pvp,
looking at some pros:
2225 power, 60-70% critchance, 187.5% critdamage
perma swiftness, perma fury (->80-90% critchance), perma weakness and chill application, 4 condi clears on averaging 21s cooldown

I tried leaving out soulreaping and it worked surprisingly well. only thing Im missing is vital persistance..
lifeforce generation happens from getting might on crit and blighters boon. weapons are 1v1 oriented. tactic is forcing the opponent into defense from the beginning.

from all power builds I had the most succes with this one past season. what u think about it?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHhhG1JHNQnNYfNgtNA9mYBXwguaBgFQ0WrD8BividxwIA-TZhFABzs/w/lBA4gAEwJAYgnAAA

It’s bad. Way too squishy. You’re down in 3 seconds under focus fire. And every block/Invuln. reliant build will outsustain you (DH, Mes, Rev, Warr). Condi Reapers hardcounter you as they melt your low HP/Shroud pool, and ignore your toughness. Thieves interrupt your heal and kite you to death, as you cant sustain for long in shroud due to dropping Sould Reaping.

You might kill some Scrappers…

I also experimented with Spite and Curses. The damage/debuff potential is insane (if you change your traits to Close to death and Path of Coruption) but you die the moment someone looks at you. Only viable in Amber sPvP or PvE.

Zero.3871:

boon corruption or condi transfers only work if you play condi necro.

Why?

(playing power corruptionmancer for ages now)

Zero.3871:

if you play necro in wvw its funny to see that EVERY ONE tries to focus you, best thing what you can do… bait enemies into a group of usefull classes of your team^^.

What WvW? Zerg? Solo Roaming? Small Scale Roaming?

Ich play a lot WvW (Rank 1400) and I don’t know what you are talking about.

Watch tournaments! Then you see why it exists. It sacrifices every possible sustain for its purpose. They even sacrifice Soul Reaping for Blood Magic just because of die Signet proc. You would never do this outside of a controlled environment.

Try to go full damage with an ele, thief (no Trickery) or any other class and see how you perform. That argument makes no sense.

Why do you play the meta build in solo Q? It’s trash there!

If there is nobody to babysit you, don’t play glass canon builds that require babysitting (the meta reaper is a glass canon).

Lot’s of people don’t understand metabattle. These builds are tournament builds. No class stacking, maximum communication between team members, 24/7 support by team members.

Solo Q is a completely different story.

Please don’t do it ANet. This is only a L2P issue.

I love “shroud flashing” for its utiliy (Stunbreak, Fury, Stability, Weakness Application, Boon Removal, Protection and whatnot…). That second would be extremely annoying and make playing Necro even more slow and clunky.

I crafted Howler (Warhorn). It has a place in almost every build (Dagger/Warhorn for power and Scepter/Warhorn for condi). Warhorn is simply necros strongest offhand weapon (a.t.m.).

The graphics effect is decent (not like the annoying effects of other legendaries) and it’s super cheap. I got the precursor for 300 Gold a few months ago.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Blighters Boon really needs a buff indeed. But I don’t think a 50% increase in gained health will solve the issue. It might be better to make it as it was again, in which buffs from allies also triggered this trait, but then with a lower health gain modifier than we have now.

Self Boon Application without running Spite is so limited that even now this trait is almost useless (in that case only Sigil of Strengh makes it semi-useful). Toning down the healing would make it completely useless for non Spite solo players and nerf Power Reaper even more.

possible change (to solve the “Necro can’t be healed by allies in shroud” issue):

Blighter’s Boon:
-Increase base healing for self applied boons by 50% (~300HP per boon)
-add self healing with a lower multiplicator for boons applied by allies (~100HP per boon)

Problem: This would favor Revenant (Herald) even more because it could be used as a healbot for the teams Reaper.

Muchacho.2390:

Well i am pretty sure its a hammer since killing in reaper shoud advances the hammer mastery achivement.

Meanwhile I’ve tested it. You are right. RS-DPS on a 1-hand and 2-hand weapon is exactly the same.

Has DS its own weapon strenght or it uses the one from the weapon you have?

DS and RS use the strengh of your currently equipped weapon (Mainhand skill 1-3, Offhand skill 4-5, Twohand weapon skill 1-5).

Two hand weapons deal 10% more (base-)damage than 1 hand weapons, so your shroud also deals 10% more (direct! not condi) damage if you switch to it while having Staff or GS equipped. You lose 10% damage if you run Dagger/Axe/Scepter.
.

Does DS benefit from the damage modifier from traits like unholy fervor?

Yes.
.

Reapershroud uses as weapon strength a (i think its exotic) hammer.

I should test this at the golem. Atm. I am pretty sure that my RS damage is significantly higher when having a twohand weapon equipped.

kappa.2036:

Traits
Soul Eater: Gain stability while wielding a Greatsword (1 stack for 3 seconds; Boon interval: 3 seconds). Reduce richarge of Greatsword skills by 20%.

By itself good, but in combination with your other GS changes totally OP.
.
.

Blighter’s Boon: Increased the health gained from this trait by 50%.

I like that!
.
.

Weapon Skills
Death Spiral: This skill now will teleport you to your target.

By itself good, but in combination with your other GS changes totally OP.
.
.

Nightfall: This skill now apply Blind every second instead of every 2 seconds. Removed cripple.

By itself good, but in combination with your other GS changes totally OP.
.
.

Skills
Spectral Armor: Using this skill now will allow you to become a ghost, evading attacks for 3 seconds. Gain life force (5%) every time you evade an attack while this skill is active. This skill no longer grants protection.

OP without internal cooldown. Underwhelming with internal 1 second cooldown.
.
.

Spectral Walk: This skill now grants you 15 seconds of swiftness and 6 seconds of superspeed. You may return to your initial position by using spectral recall. Reduce recharge to 40 s.

OK. I still don’t like the skill, but ok.
.
.

Spectral Wall: This skill now grants stability instead of protection. Projectiles that pass through the wall will get destroyed and grants life force to you (2%).

Why not.
.
.

Summon Flesh Wurm: This skill now will istantly teleport you to the target area, leaving a flesh wurm to your initial location. Necrotic Traversal remains unchanged.

I like that.
.
.

Signet of Undeath (active): Revive up to three target allies /finish up to three downed enemies in the target area.

That ranged AOE finisher would be totally OP.

sPvP Version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBIhF6kZTocTsbTw2GgeTscMYU/gnQQI+G+DHiR9stVAA-TJRGABAt/g+lBO4UAAwTAAA

WvW Roaming Version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JzmQ5mY3mgtNA9mY5Ywo+BPhgQUPbbFAivh/whIA-T1RGABAt/AZ6HA4JAAo6PHcSAkSJ4QK/AA-w

I am running this build for a few months now and experimented with different variations. The result is as viable as Power Reaper can get. Tons of synergies: incredible Lifeforce generation, insane boon corrupt capability, good condi clear, multiple stability sources, frequent weakness application.

The WvW Version sacrifices AOE damage / CC via GS but has huge burst potencial to counter other burst builds like thieves and also added strong ranged pressue because everyone will try to kite you.

flow.6043:

Hesacon.8735:

A well timed Axe #2 will drop a thief/guardian/elementalist in wvw.

A well timed anything can drop anyone, so argument invalid.

It is valid.

Typical WvW Reaper roaming scenario: Thief jumps at me, I swap to shroud to tank the burst, thief eats two hits and starts to kite me, I leave shroud an kill him (or make him disengage at least) with Axe 1+2. A well timed Axe 3 (AOE cripple) is good if he goes to stealth and tries to backstab me. So I can turn the kiting thing around and get some time to breathe.

No alternative for that scenario on Reaper. Staff is too slow and too weak.

On Core Necro Axe is often useless because shroud does the same in a much better way. Makes you a hardcounter to thieves. But who runs Core Necro?

foste.3098:

what build variety? every one uses the exact same builds, the ones that are braindead and have lots of aoe and passives. If anything this cahnge would force some build diversity given the right balance because every class will have 2 builds at least.

Well, given the “right balance” Hot builds wouldn’t be OP.

If Anet decided to balance core specs, there would be no need to turn class mechanic traits into elites.

You suggestion is not adressing causes but symptoms.

I like the idea but rebalancing all that stuff would take a long time. So I don’t know if it would solve anything.

And just to mention it: (not that we had something like that in the current metagame, but:) This would significantly reduce build variety.

BrokenGlass.9356:

Basically… I love this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHbhG2IHN0bjF3grNwhjjfhCm0BwHIfhnudpZxYEsA-TJRBwAUOJAAeCA02fgcZAA

The build is trash (sorry!). It is obvious that you do not have much sPvP experience.

Some tipps for a beginner:
As a necro/reaper (no matter if power or condi) you heavily rely on boon corrupts to debuff your opponents. Otherwise everyone outsustains you with evades, blocks and so on… And I am not talking about vulnerability as your build focuses on that condition. Vulnerability is pretty much the weakest condition in terms of sPvP. Completely useless.

If you run Power, run at least Marauder Amulet, better Paladin and try to apply weakness as much as possible (either by might corruption or the curses traitline). That’s a good start to get some sustain. Then think about Spectral Armor and Flesh Wurm (unfortunately Rise! is no option on base necro).

Also keep in mind that all of your build’s skills (except D/Wh) are extremely clunky to use. Not the best way to start with. Personally I like Axe/Focus as ranged weaponset but it took me some time to get good with it.

Side note: Base Necro sucks due to its lack of stability. Also not having Blighter’s Boon is a disadvantage. I tried the old standard wells power build (which is a lot better than your build) a few months ago. Even that build is not viable anymore.

Drakril.4058:

pwr necro is a tough play in sPvP right now. Classes like Ele/Engi/Druid will eat you alive due to high sustain. Necros main bonus in soloQ is the mad poison distribution. You will 1/2 the life expectancy of every player in the game and just about forfeit there long game as 9/10 battles you can out rotate their play with constant poison. Trust me, i tried non-meta GS/ A-W in paladin and would hold very well 1v1… but there was no team play in pwr.

The Reapers in the last WC went down 100 times a match for a reason. They were total glass canons. They didn’t even run Soul Reaping. Their only sustain skill was Spectral Armor which is laughable. No Rise!, no Fleshworm, no Well of Power, no Spectral Walk, no toughness… nothing.

@topic:
Stability/Stunbreak for Power Reaper:
Speed of Shadows + Foot in the Grave = 7 sec. sunbreak and 3 seconds stab every 7 seconds

…makes life much easier.

anduriell.6280:

[…] i can see a lot of condis mesmer pu, perma stealth s\p thieves, boonshare for a ton and melee train blobs with a guardian\zerker rate of 80% which only happened before when we were matched up against desolation.
[…]
This week at least Far shiverpeaks has blobs in 3 maps, as the player from kodash said the only non FS occupied map is kodash because of the DBL.
[…]
shame it’s impossible to roam because of the gank squads.

These are exactly my experiences this week on Kodash.

Caedmon.6798:

Funny how you mention that but forget to mention that the rise to the top was happening Before we got linked with 2 servers.

You are outnumbering the other servers wth your 3 zergs. That’s all. No special skill involved here. the rare moments we fight 10 vs 10 und not 10 vs 40 against you, you are pretty easy to deal with.

And btw. your community sucks: I (as a roamer) have never been whispered and flamed that often in the last 4 years like in this week. It’s just pathetic.

geekilo.8512:

I’m just curious if anyone use GS reaper. If you do, is it for pve, pvp or wvw???

In sPvP as secondary weapon for its utility. You never autoattack with GS in PvP.

Mea.5491:

So when did we start hating GS? When Reaper came out, everyone was happy with it.

In sPvP people realised after 2 minutes in the first beta, that it’s worse than Dagger/Warhorn.

In PvE everyone was hyped because of Gravedigger’s big numbers – until someone noticed the ~2 second casting (+aftercast) time cutting the DPS in half.

Silv.9207:

Spectral armor, still granting LF while in Shroud is not a invulnerability skill. It’s more or less like a damage reduction skill. Protection itself do better.
1400lf/hit when a enemy hit can inflict you 3-6k of damage is not a invulnerability skill.
It’s a big help, but not a thing that make us survive.

6k damage? Did you notice the 50% inc. damage reduction in shroud?

I played Power Reaper using Paladin Amulet for a few hundred matches till now. And I can tell you that I am unkillable in midfight when spectral armor and shroud are up. Damage is still pretty good since I’ve 100% crit. chance in shroud.

In my first post in this thread I mentioned, that the necromancer’s problem is not the non-existence of a block/invuln but its non-existent mobility. The classes traits and skills would be totally fine if there was a way to disengage burst. GS5 should be a 750 range leap instead of a 750 range pull.

A single invulnerability skill would also be “useless” if we don’t have a single way to kill the enemy.

I can kill everything except that OP warrior build which outsustains everything, so I don’t care and just wait for the nerf.

gavyne.6847:

KrHome.1920:

If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.

Eh, protection can get stripped or boon corrupted, and you are assuming you even have enough lifeforce to go into shroud in the first place, even more to stay in shroud for longer than 1 round of attacks. Plus you are vulnerable to any and all cc’s.

Nope, nothing like invuln, not even close. It’s more bs logic by Anet though, how they need to place strict rules against us having X + Y, yet other classes have the whole enchilada.

I am not talking about protection but the lifeforce gain on taking damage. Your shroud won’t drop significantly during those 6 seconds. And even if that still happens: grab some toughness or even vitality (since the gain is measured in %) gear! Then you should have an Endure Pain like effect.

But of course: There is one big issue: you can’t be healed by your team mates, while tanking damage in shroud.

Btw.:
- Endure Pain doesn’t prevent you from getting CC’d.
- Other classes have this and that out of context is no viable argument.

If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.

Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…

Most efficient build for solo PvE:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Greatsword/X

Full Zerk, but on Reaper you should never die doing solo PvE Content.

You are food because you can’t disengage.

3 seconds of invul/block would not help you in a team fight. You would just live 3 seconds longer.

Your shroud is meant to tank incoming damage. This is the necromancers class design and the reason why there are no blocks.

Positioning is very important when playing necromancer. And It’s not like you don’t have ranged options.

Sororita.3465:

Blighter’s Boon is completely usable without spite, the might generation from Reaper traits, food and even sigils are sufficient.

Losing Reaper’s Might and Siphoned Power kills a lot of Blighter’s Boon’s sustain effect.

(much more boon stripping than Chill of Death during a fight, 2 every 5 seconds, boons heavy metas amiright?)

Boons are converted at the end of the animation, which is a huge issue in real life. Very very unreliable. Same with Weakenig Shroud and its Weakness application.

So if you want to be a cookie cutter meta battle copy pasta then by all means go ahead but don’t sit here and give advice on alternate builds saying that they are somehow not equal to taking spite. They are. You just need to experiment more.

Well I ‘ve made it to Diamond two times solo Q’ing Power Reaper, so I wouldn’t say I am a metabattle follower, but I ’ve compared Spite and Curses in hundreds of hours against competent opponents and Spite is definitly superior in a power based build.

Enhanced Bulwark is only for Retribution Revs. Run Elder’s Force on Invocation!

In WvW you can go for the sPvP Meta on Full Zerk Gear and rekt opponents using the standard “Staff5/LegendSwap/WeaponSwap/PrecisionStrike” combo. It deals ridiciulous amounts of damage there.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Power_Shiro

Lahmia.2193:

So making Chilling Scythe (3rd auto attack ) 3/4s cast and making Reaper’s Onslaught affect Greatsword attack speed would help solve this in your opinion?

No.

Your Reaper’s Onslaugt modification would not be viable in sPvP in my opinion because the Blighter’s Boon healing effect is mandatory.

I would change Soul Eater to:

Variant 1:
- 1/4s less cast time for all GS skills
- GS Skill Recharge Reduced: 10%

Variant 2:
- 1/4s less cast time for each of the three GS autoattack skills
- GS Skill Recharge Reduced: 20%

In both cases: Remove the useless Life Siphon.

Then Soul Eater would be a very good alternative to Chilling Victory.

Vova.2640:

- Blighter’s Boon should replace Chilling Victory.. I feel like there are enough ways to get might as it is.

This would kill Power Reapers completely as they would lose significant survivability.

You obviously dont’t see the synergy of Chilling Victory and Blighter’s Boon. I run both traits with Sigil of Strengh and Sigil of Hydromancy for Lifeforce generation, improved Shroud Heal, CC and DPS in a full melee Power Reaper Build.

@topic:
GS autoattack is unreliable. But I love this weapon for its utility (skill 2,3,4,5) but then swap weapon or go into Reaper Shroud. That’s why GS+Staff is a bad weapon combo. You deal no damage at all. Better use GS+Axe oder even go full melee with GS+Dagger (Speed of Shadows+Vital Persistence for frequent access to RS2 mobility highly recommended then! – makes you a lot less kiteable).

The skill design on GS is pretty good (esp. Nightfall – I love it!). I would not change it. But the autoattack has to become more reliable. ANet tried to fix this with adding cripple, chill and a pull, but it’s not working properly. GW2 PvP is too fast paced for such slow autoattacks.

I hate to fight Condi Warriors and Condi Reapers, because they hardcounter me.

I faceroll Condi Mesmers, Dragonhunters and Scrappers (because of NCSY!) and deal enough damage to force any Daredevil to retreat after 2 Seconds.

Build: Full Zerk D/Wh Power Reaper with shouts (YSIM!, Suffer!, NCSY!, CTTB!) and Rune of the Trooper.

msalakka.4653:

It never left. It’s just gotten more popular now that, thanks to reward track nonsense and dailies, we have more pve clowns running around on the borderlands, and since they are not there to engage in person v. person combat, nor could they handle it if they did, they run this garbage.

The players getting killed by that build are the PvE clowns.

It’s predictable and only kills you if you are standing still and don’t use any condi cleanse.

Jerus.4350:

It’s not hard to survive them but they’re like mosquitoes, annoying and you have to question why they exist.

True!

Greatsword changes i would like to see:

Death Spiral:
- This skill now transfers 2 conditions to your foe

Grasping Darkness
- Increased range from 750 to 900 (same cast time, which means the skill now works faster)

Then GS would be totally fine! This weapon isn’t designed to fight thieves or mesmers. Take dagger for fast-paced matchups! Against e.g. GS warriors the reaper GS does a pretty good job.

The one to Rule.2593:

rofl revenant one of the weakest classes in terms of dps right now and people still are crying for nerf?

Nobody here is talking about PvE.

The weakest DPS class/build in the game (chronophantasma shatter) is the strongest in sPvP.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only play PvE (some dungeons and fractals but mostly open world). I was thinking staff/axe/dagger.

Open PvE:

Full Zerk, Dagger/Warhorn + Staff

Everything else is inferior. D/Wh@ zerker gear gives you max. dps, tons of lifeforce and swiftness. Staff is only for event farming to hit multiple mobs.

Don’t go for a hybrid or condi build in open world content. This will take you three times longer to kill mobs. You are just wasting time on your way to reaper unlock.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I’m just relieved that power reapers aren’t too badly affected by the changes…shroud changes were a slight nerf…but we also got a slight buff through the spinal shivers…

The Infusing Terror nerf hits hard. I don’t know if that was necessary.

Btw.: The Spinal Shivers buff is only listed in the Focus skill tooltip. The Chill of Death tooltip shows the old unbuffed numbers! I hope they did not forget to buff Chill of Death as well and this is just a wrong tooltip but correct workingg skill!

Glenn.8617:

Quick note: I’m mainly looking to do open world PVE & solo WvW

1) Berserker or other-stats gear?

PvE? Sure!

WvW? You ’ll get one-shotted. Better go for Marauder!

2) What sigils/runes should I use?

Air, Fire, Force Sigils
Scholar Runes: You are usually starting a fight with a burst, so also for PvP/WvW scholar maximizes your damage

3) How do I obtain ascended weapons & armour (the easiest)?

Save your laurels:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laurel_Merchant_%28WvW%29

Learn weaponsmith and huntsman for your ascended weapons. Ascended armor is a loooong way to go then.

Just enjoy the game and if you find some random ascended armor or weapon, DONT! throw it away. You can change the stats for little money in the mystic forge. So theoretically it is possible to get your gear without any crafting.

4) How do I unlock Daredevil & gliding? (I’ve purchases HoT)

Just enter the HoT maps and play.

5) Anything else important I should know/aim for?

Thief is a very demanding profession – for you, for your team and for your opponents. People will hate you for several reasons. :-)

Ragion.2831:

The studio insists on making necro attacks so slow that other classes on paper have an easy time avoiding it, a well played shiro glint negates a condi necro not to mention a power necro.

A mediocre played Shiro Glint negates an outstanding played Power Reaper.

So what does that say about skillful play? All it says is that average players are carried by their build.

my experience climbing up to legendary division in league

Have you seen NA pro league last week? Toker beat that condi mes on Power Shiro. That was skillful play. The typical legendary meta build player is far away from that.

Against 2 thieves? predict if you would last 10 seconds without shroud? on a power build? that is not going to happen especially when thieves control the fight against necros in the first place.

Entering Plague at the beginning of the fight >>> Skill 2 Blind >>> while in Plague my Shroud is refilling (pulsing Stability>Blighter’s Boon Synergy and Last Gasp Proc) >>> cancel plague on low health >>> immediately enter fully loaded shroud

While doing all that stuff you have at least 3 dodges to negate the big hits. They have to peel Plague, then shroud and then kill me. 20 seconds is easily possible. I’ve done that 1000 times.

I wish you were with me today in Hotjoin, a good number of high level players that i’ve run into in the past were out, again as someone who also mained necro, there is simply no way a necro would have been able to handle the sort of mesmers, revs and thieves that were in there.

Barely any thief mesmer or dragonhunter (someone mentioned DHs would generally counter Power Reapers… not true!) forces me to give up the the capture point 1v1 in conquest when playing the following Power Reaper build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmOD7kZTocTsdTwbTgeTsgLYUph2wzC6qFAOAxVxuYYE-TJBFAB/XGQgLCQR7PAwTAAA

Rise! can be swapped for NCSY! (=more pressure against blocks) and CttB! for Plague (= Panic Button against Burst).

This build also gives nice midfight team suppport via low cooldown aoe condi removal, massive aoe damage, aoe boon strip/convert, aoe weakness and aoe chill/cripple.

But yes a Power Reaper is usually hardcountered by Power Revs and Condi Reapers. Everything else is killable or can at least be stalled till +1 help arrives.

Ragion.2831:

Take for instance, as a revenant with a squishy build i see two thieves coming at me, i’m expecting a burst so i start blocking. Luckily for me both of them used their utilities (like fist flurry, impairing daggers)and steal without basilisk venom which means i just negated like 20k damage. If it was necro, first of all rise has limited range and only works when attacking which means i wont get the effect, second protection from spec armour would get stolen, third i would still take a huge hit even if i used shroud, i would also take the effects like dazes, immobilize + other conditions like slow.

I’m sure you can agree that in this case even a 2 second block is better than every damage mitigation necro has.

Also skillful play to me involves damage negation, effectiveness of the counter and positioning. Necro does not have damage negation except the awkward blinds, counter attacking is usually difficult against classes that do have alot of negates which is just about everyone else and necro doesnt have very effective re positioning skills except wurm which has its problems.

The combination of damage mitigation not really helping in the grand scheme of things especially with power builds and a lack of any of the three things i describe as skillful play is why i say necro is not a skill based class. At least with condi, the condi pressure makes up for it which is more than i can say about power builds. The damage potential might be there but at what cost.

Looking forward to the vid

I play Power Reaper and Power Rev and your argumentation is strange. I smell theorycrafting.

2 thieves focusing you are deadly. You gain nothing from your poor 2 second block. They will kill you afterwards with autoattacks. Plague at least would keep me alive for 20 seconds.

Shroud management (entering/leaving/refilling) and a good positioning is way more demanding than having blocks on every weaponset and perma evades in shiro stance.

If a thief attacks me on Power Reaper and I enter shroud the thief will start to kite me. Now I have to predict if I will survive the next 10 seconds when leaving shroud or if it would be better to stay in it for a while. I have to analyse the situation (Which skills did he use till that point? How deadly is he for the next few seconds? What could I do? What about my utility cooldowns? And so on…).

On Rev I simply switch weapons and use my other block. If this is not enough I switch to shiro and use my 1723432 evades and stun breakers.

So does Rev stand for more skillful play? Nope… not really! Rev stands for power creep. And Scrapper, Mercenary Reaper and Mercenary Cronomancer are the kings of power creep.

Btw.: Greatsword Power Reaper sucks in PvP. Axe/Warhorn+Staff is a way better combo for two reasons:

1. GS is redundant to Reaper Shroud. You gain nothing from that weapon. GS+Core Necro would be a nice synergy if it was possible.
2. With GS you are kitable. RS+Axe+Staff gives you melee, medium ranged and ranged pressure and you are not forced to go melee outside of shroud what makes positioning a lot easier and is important because of your squishiness.

lethotix.2973:

Not a l2p…I don’t want it because I accidentally leave shroud..spaming a skill will give faster results than clicking it once, while your having to pay attention to everything else and might not click it just in time to save yourself. Talking from a PvP standpoint

Correct! Just watch some pro gamers streaming. They are all spamming buttons for a reason. It minimizes reaction-/response times.

Bjarkov.9751:

Well tbh, my only problem with rev is how it makes my warrior completely useless in pvp.

I don’t get your point. Warrior is incredibly strong in 1v1 situaitions. You can kill everything with a Full Zerk GS+Gunflame Warrior. Rifle deals ridiculous unblockable damage, GS gives ridiculous mobility. Even if your opponent can catch you, you have at least two 5 sec. Invuln. to set up a new unblockable burst.

If you are a hotjoin hero, warrior is the class to go.

The problem with warrior is his lack of team support. Every other class does more for the team than a warrior – not just the revenant. If you nerf revenant a warrior still has no team support and a thief still dies in 1 second in every team fight. This would change nothing.

Burtnik.5218:

KrHome.1920:

A Mace+Axe Rev in Mallyx Stance is a freekill these days in every teamfight.

Weird cus my friend made it to legendary with condi rev and he been only yoloq..

I made it from Amber to Diamond in 6 evenings (and stopped playing there) with a Devastation, Invocation, Herald Max-DPS PvE Sword+Hammer Build – 100% solo Q.

I guess next season I will do the same with a gs+staff power reaper – just for the lols.

You don’t get focused in solo Q. You can play squishy stuff, that would never be viable in a decent team fight.

The one to Rule.2593:

the only way that they could make no weapon swap viable is they let us cycle through all legends, not just 2

All legends would be pointless because we ll get more and more legends in further expansions. But a 3 legend swap to compensate the weapon swap + the reversal of weapon nerfs would be cool, but then we would lose our identity and become too much like an ele.

Burtnik.5218:

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

Part of me actually start wonder how people even managed to play condi rev with.. mace/axe+s/sh < 1 selfroot block on 25cd and 0 defense against direct damage in Mallyx.

A Mace+Axe Rev in Mallyx Stance is a freekill these days in every teamfight.

Malchior.5732:

We have other legends…

The day they will become viable in some way we can discuss about the purpose of a low/non cooldown legend swap.

The subject was: Could a shorter legend swap compensate a non existent weapon swap. And my point is: In the current state of revenant it can’t.

LucianDK.8615:

Not true. Faster access to utility skills and refreshing energy.

Glint Utilities have cooldowns between 15 and 45 seconds. So what do you expect from a 3 time legend swap during that interval?

The cooldown on the shiro skills are pretty low, but since the weapon skills also have their own cooldowns all you could do is quickness autoattacking while evading a few times.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

LucianDK.8615:

hate being told to run staff for cc. I could live without weapon swap. And reduce the cd on legendswap to compensate.

If legend swap were any lower in CD it would need to lose the stun break and trait for condition removal.

Otherwise it would be very OP in pvp.

With the current cooldowns and design of skills you would gain nothing from legend swap on let’s say 5 seconds.

ANet nerfed several skills after giving the revenant the ability to swap weapons. They would have to revert all these changes to keep the class viable.