@Sigmoid: It is also a shroud skill, correct? Admittedly thinking more 1v1. Thief would probably be the hardest class to get life force out of.
Also it’s not terribly long, but the moment stability is no longer pulsing is the moment thief can daze. Ofc doesn’t change that pulsing stability is very nice. Can’t wait to try it out.
I’m a fan of both thief and necro, but gotta ask…
How often will reaper have access to stability? Can’t a thief wait it out?
Supposing thief does get some form of sniper specialization…
We don’t have mace daze…so stealing something that we dont have is plain stupid.
On the other hand, my thief isn’t trained in the ways of the guardian. So, what’s a poor thief to do with this hunk of metal he liberated from the strange brute? Answer: Bonk someone over the head with it.
Actually, I like the way you think. We should make this more “real.” Instead of the steal we have we’ll take your off hand “off your hands.” We’ll gain a skill from the weapon and then drop it. You lose access to it until you pick it up. Elementalists lose an element and engies lose a toolkit/gadget/whatnot.
/sarcasm
@Akimoto: Would be a bit awkward copying the skill bar of everything in pve. Also skills could be wrong for the thief’s build (not that it’s really a reason against it). My biggest reason for thinking the mechanic would change differently is due to there being an option that matches a ranged thief much better. Turning steal into a ground targeted shadow step would be perfect if attacking at range, be it sniping or skirmishing, is the class focus.
On the other hand if thief got a focus or scepter instead of rifle, doppelgänger skill mechanic makes a lot of sense. Magic thief steals opponent’s essence.
1) ANet stated that the goal is for elite specializations to be different, not better. If they do this successfully then there’s no worry. So far the elites don’t seem to break anything, as there are distinct benefits and drawbacks.
This response changes nothing from what I said. If all the specializations are different, then each specialization bring options people who didn’t buy the expansion won’t have.
Or I could just be terribly confused… What’s the difference between elite specializations and core specializations?
Guild goal looks very promising. Is there a problem with being in another server? A bit new, so not sure how server transferring works.
By any chance has Lunchbox played a game called “Grand Fantasia?”
All specializations I see as alternate play styles. If they are not, then they are improved versions of what we already have (only unlikely exception being a future spec that sucks so bad it detracts from the original). So, not buying HoT means we lose or miss out on the best of over half of all potential play styles if we have no access to specializations. Forgive me if it’s a bit presumptuous, but this sounds like it will hurt competitively.
Not that I wouldn’t buy the expansion. I’m not spending $60 cuz I’m a college going Scrooge, but I love this game and the work being put into the expansion. Moment I find it a decent price I’ll be joining everyone else.
The playstyle rifle will bring judging by the way the OP designed those rifle skills will most likely be a slow-paced calculated plinking vs the fast-paced in-your-face combat. The bayonet will not do much.
This was pretty much my thought too. I first liked the idea of a melee/skirmisher rifle, but it doesn’t really bring another play style to thief. It’s not stopping melee rifle from possibly happening. Just look at chronomancer. However, I’d like to see this sniper play style make it. Only non-magic ranged class I ever enjoyed was a sniper on SWtoR.
Rather disappointed. I clicked the thread after misreading, “My problem with Skritts.”
Why has this thread 2 pages?
You know that taste, intentions and accomplishments are subjective, right?Why is everybody arguing about OP’s preferences so hard?
I hope you are aware that you’ll never reach a universal satisfying conclusion about these topics.
Very insightful post. Answers a rather confusing question.
Last I checked, here it’s more common for arrows to gain momentum than lose it with increased range. Where else do attacks gain damage with distance?
Preaching to the choir here, but…
Bottom line is there will always be people complaining about the rogue-like class of any game. People play it because they like the feel of coming out of no where to take down a target. Or perhaps they prefer a different defense compared to the typical walking tank. Game makers want to offer that experience and balance it out by making the class very punishable.
Those who complain typically can’t look past how much they hated getting burst down. “Who cares if the class is balanced? I don’t want to be assassinated.” Heck, I played a game where the rogue type class was the second worst pvp class available. Almost entirely dependent on evade and in a game littered with stuns, one stun drops evade to zero. Saw just as many complaints in that game’s forum and by the same type of people, lacking almost any knowledge on the class besides the one guy who killed them.
Having a few large critters in specific maps which could be mounted sounds pretty cool. I’d actually rather they not differ by classes/race, but instead have different characteristics needed to access different areas.
However, this is not the update to see it in. HoT maps will already have plenty of interesting aspects to them. Unless more maps get updated to have all these interesting features, it seems overkill to pile it all into the same map.
Kinda new, but most posts I’ve seen say GW2 has pretty much the most laid back community out there. Heck, I’ve seen more posts “complaining” about the lack of seriousness than general toxicity (pvp exception, but that’s typical). Ofc that’s just reading. What little pve experience I got leveling 2 characters up to 80 seems mostly positive though.
There are many times I notice good looks, but unless I’m with friends, why would I bother talking about it? Unless I’m a new player trying to learn about cool things the game has to offer, I’m not going to start fanboying over everything with a sparkle.
Best to get things to look awesome, not to get people to tell you you look awesome.
I could care less about mounts considering GW2 has the least number of times for me playing a game where I felt I was just way too slow. However, it would be cool to see npcs using larger mounts and moving around for things like transporting troops or bringing goods to market. There are events for these, but I was looking for something more… common. It would be particularly interesting if some functioned as mobile platforms you could hop aboard. Better yet, a mobile camp at some point would be awesome. Put it in some sort of flat desert map and give it a waypoint so you could watch the thing move around on the map.
Because they’re already minions of the Horse Dra…
The Centaurs are obviously secretly a race of dragon minions just like how there are no risen Sylvari.
Horses for the Horse
GodDragon…
Dang it.
Anyways, would be interesting if uncorrupted races get researched for possible vaccines or something. Or perhaps Zhaitan just figured they’d be more useful as part of an abomination?
Zhaitan: “Skritt? Abomination? Skritt? Abomination? Why the heck is this a question? Just throw the rats in with the rest of the junk.”
Yet another reason I love playing Asura. I can see me getting real tired of human voices (that dang centaur comment), but for the most part Asuran wit isn’t growing old for me any time soon. Female charr voices sound pretty good to. It’s not so much what they say, but the way they say it. Clear message not to screw with them.
Far as favorite voices from MMOs though, the laugh from female operatives in SW:toR is just perfect.
IGN: Cocokury
Playstyle: PvE (End goal: WvW roamer)
Server: Kaineng
Experience with thief:
I am fairly new to the game in general, as though I bought the game quite a while ago, I only recently began playing in earnest. When just starting, I played a condi d/d thief. However, I felt I wasn’t learning anything since basically I was just spamming 3 to kill everything. More recently I’ve been playing power d/p and swapping to p/d when getting bored. So far my Cocokury is only level 46, but by far my favorite character to play. I already have a guild I feel loyal to, but Teef seems like a good chance to become better at a class I enjoy the most, and through that help my guild even more.
Thief specialization name: Dragonshooter. Gotta stick to the set precedent.
“Trolling” is just an cute word for “Sadism” used by people who don’t know that taking pleasure from causing the suffering of your fellow human beings significantly pre-dates the internet.
i think trolls remind us not to take ourselves too seriously. The ones that do are often bothered the most by it.
So basically it’s a lesson for people who won’t get it. The people who get the lesson don’t need it. Puts the value off trolling in a bit of a predicament.
Just thought it would be interesting to see what other people liked when they played MMOs. Please note if you’re talking pvp or pve since that changes how you play quite a bit. Here goes for me. Mostly pve since I’m getting used to GW2 still.
-I’ve liked playing condi builds since in the game I came from condition damage was pretty much ignorable. Watching enemies simply melt was a pretty neat experience for the first time.
-I also enjoy “in your face” classes that relied on something other than pure defense to avoid getting hit. For some reason I’ve almost never played the rogue archetype for long before, but playing thief here has been a blast.
-In my last game, I really enjoyed a magic class with very heavy cc, to the point I could perm-root a single target. Most fun I ever had in pvp was facing multiple enemies with about my level of gear.
-Not so much a class type, but I’ve always loved move speed. For normal questing, a necro with locust signet, spectral walk, and focus for locust swarm has been great with near permanent 58% move speed.
What I have problems with:
-Never liked warrior classes. I have tried, and I know there can be a ton of skill involved, but overall it just seemed to simple for me. Plus, being a 6’1" guy who’s not quite a beanpole, I like playing characters that are a bit more different than the real me.
-Bow people. I love the concept, but playing them has always seemed boring. The only exception I’ve found are snipers in sw:tor. I know most people don’t seem to want a sniper spec for thief, but I’d be very pleased if I could get a similar experience here.
-Healer. This is another where I love the concept. The only problem is I’m too anti-social and am usually by myself. Healers solo make for very boring playthroughs.
So, what are everyone else’s thoughts?
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Don’t know if they’ve been said, but 2 mushroom head Sylvari named “Fun Guy” and “Pizza Topper.”
I may be taking this the wrong way, but I think I can relate. I also like to take things pretty slowly, mainly due to being a completionist. It’s a bit different than other games, but try thinking of level as more of a minor goal. The end goal is simply building up your characters. Go for all the achievements, gear, appearance, and above all personal skill level. It’s actually pretty nice being able to do this on multiple characters (though I’ve always been an altoholic). The classes all play very differently and are very fun to experiment with.
I read your post about the games you used to play and the lack of well known players/guilds here. I came from those type of games as well. (Ever play Grand Fantasia?) At least in what I played, the biggest reasons some people were well known was 1.) small population and 2.) world chat. It would be pretty nice if people and guilds who did well were better recognized though. Hopefully they could get better leader boards, including a focus on guilds and wvw.
Long post aside, hope you enjoy GW2. It’s quite different compared to most MMOs, but that’s definately not always a bad thing.
Always thought of trolling as pushing/fearing someone off a ledge, or in other games putting them under as much cc as I possibly can before running away so my skills can cool down for more fun.
Trolling on forums? Eh, most trolling is an attempt to ruin someone’s day. Only reason to do it is if someone’s being a prick. (Surprised. Thought that’d be filtered.)
I’m fairly new myself. I had been playing a PU build 0/4/6/0/4 and did quite well. Forget the exact number of matches, but I almost had wolf rank and had a victory rate over 50%. From the start I never dipped into the 40s. Of course it could have been luck. It was also unranked so besides the occasional team most players weren’t quite the best. Though I did survive most any 1v1 encounter and never had trouble with warriors.
Just a few problems. From what I understand, other builds can potentially offer much more once mastered. Also, PU mesmer is very easy to play. Great for just trying the class out, but once I tried more difficult builds it was obvious I had a very long way to go.
I know you said phantasms, but I can’t help but think of all illusions sharing buffs making mesmers that much more difficult to spot.
Ability to disengage at will doesn’t exactly counter itself. Just means both of you can escape when you want if playing right.
Seems like the counter is pretty much anything hard to kill. Longer you stay around, more time you have to screw up.
use s/p for lving~
Mind telling me why? If it’s to get used to the skills I understand. For surviving and killing fast though, d/p seems a bit better.
Thanks for all the feedback! So far I’m loving my thief, though it may be a while before I pvp with it. One thing I got to say though. Not used to glass cannons. It’s like everything seems easy, until you screw up.
So let’s see… Currently using d/p and shortbow. Lvl 35 so not much in traits yet. Any advice for using cluster bomb on shortbow? Feels like I’m doing something wrong when aiming close to me. I’d also love to learn how to do the clusterbomb/steal together. I’ve seen a youtube video where it seems almost instant, but never managed myself. Thanks again for all the advice!
Please tell me what connection does the Guardian have to Dragons, for Draconnier to make sense?
Dragons are large, bulky, annoying creatures with bad breath.
So are guardians!
@Leo G: Every class has lore that would back up the class being linked to dragons.
Frankly, my class could be called Pro-Janitor and other than a slight annoyance I’d be fine. The name is not the important part. What matters is how it plays.
Still, though minor, it is an itch. Sometimes you just gotta scratch.
Perhaps illusion of life could rez a player without the ability to heal until he’s made a kill?
And new “weapon” for warrior: They lose 3/4 of what they can wield and get kits!
@Harnel: I somewhat like your idea much more than any of the possibilities I suggested for a sniper based F1. It can greatly change the playstyle of thief without taking away from the old. It’s also not completely OP powerwise.
I see only two problems.
1.) Sort of makes thieve’s stealth on steal redundant. Not that big a problem because the trait provides something a bit different, letting you move.
2.)Most broken escape skill ever.
If it is a rifle I think skills/traits should focus on some sort of sniper theme. Steal would be changed to some sort of mark target ability granting either increased damage/range for a set period of time. Or it could garantee the next hit regardless of protection or perhaps even dodging. All negative skill effects attached to steal would be applied to the target on the hit after using the skill.
The specialization would favor a more stationary playstyle, rewarding sacrificing the defense of movement, but on the flip side making it very difficult to maintain an offense under pressure. Rifle skills with decent damage would take a while to use and lock the user down. Traits would have at least one restoring initiative at a faster rate while stationary. I’d actually like to see something close to mantras for the new skill type. The idea would be a skill based on concentrating and possibly shoring up some weaknesses of long skills with a few emergency instant casts. A skill/trait to remain stealthed while not moving would be interesting to. If a trait, it would kick in once a stealth skill ends if you aren’t moving. Chaining stealth on top of it to continue moving would not be possible and moving would cause a reveal debuff. If a trait, being directly damaged should probably end the effect. It would be mostly tactical and not worth anything in spvp for capturing points, though it could make a pretty good guard if that ever became a thing. Possibly add some sort of wall trap as well, not activated til an enemy tries to cross.
I’d really like to see a sniper type class, though I know the challenges to it. It would have to be rewarding enough to have the feel of sniping while making sure the risks balance out the reward to avoid something unfairly OP. At the same time, ANet has a thing about wanting to avoid overly simplistic classes. Perhaps that could be overcome in a need to move after successful kills. Maybe have certain high damage skills punish the sniper with vulnerability. If GW2 were to get such a class, this would be one of the best opportunities do to the similar nature but completely different playstyles of a GW2 thief and a sniper type class.
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Actually, it might go beyond charr thieves, and it seems to be mostly a question of attitude. Asuras are perceived like Pro-MLG deuchbags,
Guess I haven’t been playing GW2 often enough to see this. Kind of funny because at least a few Asura players I’ve thought were similar to Lalafell players in FFXIV. (They got an interesting reputation to say the least…) I always thought of Asura players as people who are into cute/irony and supporters of the master race. You will find the master race of any MMO in the smallest playable race. Although in GW2 Asura have a rather legit claim to the title. Well, that really wasn’t on topic at all…
Personally, there’s nothing wrong with blunt feedback. Make anything on a video and you’re going to get it, doubly if posted on the forums. It’s unlikely I’d be able to avoid sugarcoating stuff, but I wouldn’t expect that if I were to put something up. In all honesty, as a newer player I appreciate criticism of videos. It’s harder for newer players to know if something is good or bad and this sort of thing gives players trying to improve a better perspective on what they’re seeing.
@Klowde: Thanks for the advice. Hopefully as I play the game more I’ll have a better feel for timing and a few other things like how the camera works. Do you think not having a mouse will effect that too much? How about not having the best of computers? Been playing on a non-gaming labtop and GW2 usually seems to run smoothly, but I haven’t done much pvp.
@ixon: Better to have loved and lost… Actually I’ve been playing a PU mesmer so I kind of feel your pain, though I’ve been meaning to change my mesmer’s build to something more challenging/rewarding. Putting all that aside for now though since I’d really like to get good at thief. There’s a reason you all love it and I’m betting it’s justified.
Can anyone help me with finding the best way to learn the thief class? The class seems very fun to play, but out of all the classes in GW2 it seems to take the most practice. In pvp it is possibly the easiest class to recognize if a person is very good or needs to improve. I’m not after specific builds unless they’re simply good for learning to play the class. On the other end of the spectrum, I’m not after a basic list of all the skills and what they do.
Pretty much I’ve always liked the looks of the light armored dps classes in MMOs, but always somehow end up maining more magical classes (can’t stand warriors for some reason). Simply asking seemed a more sure method to finding information I could use to finally give this awesome looking class a go.
I’m not so sure about the name “Inquisitor.” To me, it implies light armor and certainly doesn’t include a bow as a main weapon. Even if ArenaNet were to change the name, it’s rather unreasonable to expect all the work put into the skills/traits/whatnot to go as well, so the name has to match the skills. Traps aren’t going to cut it as a reason for the name, especially when traps an inquisitor would use consist more of wordplay than anything.
Personally, I think Seeker or Sentinel would be better names. Both have a heavy armor feel to them, as well as a more holy/righteous/just aspect to it (the aspect of security). A seeker is an aggressive pursuer (not really backline support, but fits a big guy with a bow perfectly). A sentinel sort of a more refined word for guard. Of course, neither has the lore base that dragonhunter has. But, “dragonhunter” as a class kind of makes no sense being in lore because all classes should be considered as such.
@Fay: I agree. However, you would need about 4 or so chronomancers to spam it effectively. It would only be practical in wvw and honestly easy enough to dodge, at least once it gets going. Strange… kind of reminds me of ice climbers “wobbling” in SB Melee. Anyways, if it worked this way I think we could expect to see it stay this way unless the tactic/exploit becomes a common practice.
Also, I feel like the movement of the skill wouldn’t allow you to also catch their ToT.
You would just need to catch the wall on the return, which comes back all the way to the caster at least.
Does anyone know if catching another mesmer’s tide of time will cut cd on his own tide of time? Heck, if it did it might not even be changed right away due to how rare an all chronomancer team would be, despite being majorly op.
For pretty much all MMOs I can’t stand staying solidly in the meta. I’m fine with others going for a cookie cutter build, but I can’t stand not having a build that isn’t my own. I would certainly wish to use meta builds to learn all I can, but sticking with them? Once I understand a game, I share what I learn not to create a standard, but to continue drawing out the potential of my favorite classes.
@curnen: Thanks for the feedback again. It will be stepping out of my comfort zone, trying a less user friendly build. But if I can use something more fun and useful, it will definitely be worth it.
As has already been said, agro is partially determined by proximity to the monster. As you level the difference between your damage and your clones’ damage will become greater, outweighing the agro from proximity. For now it’s a workable strategy. You can beef up your clones with traits to increase this period of time where it works. But… don’t get too used to it since soon enough your own dps will become too much for clones to keep up with for too long.
I love how people keep ranking the Reaper as last, but are unable to even say a reason.
Have you played with the Reaper? Have you tested everything out? No.
All you’ve done is listen to what they say about a spec STILL IN BETA and instantly complain about it.
Umm… just gonna point out the logic flaw here. You accuse people of not having a reason for putting reaper last, then blast them for doing so. Not cool.
Anyways, for the three we got I gotta go 1.) Chrono, 2.)DH, 3.)Reaper. I’m biassed since I main mesmer, but chrono brings a lot to the table. (Just pointing out to the person who made the FF haste comparison, try haste in the FF tactics game. A bit off topic…) DH is cool in concept and I actually enjoy the idea behind the name even if it’s a bit meh. Still need to see the concept vid for it though. Reaper is… awesome in concept. Like many others I’m a bit troubled by the attack speed. I wouldn’t rank anything 9th yet of course. There’s always a chance for a major flop.
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Give warriors a main hand shield and treat it like a massive katar. Yes, this is a “wierd dilusion” of mine, but it would be pretty cool and unique.
@curunen: Well, you pretty much summed up my build and confirmed my suspicions. As for the 4 points in illusions, I originally had sword/focus which I mainly used for a bit more mobility. Wanted to actually use my sub weapons, so swapped to scepter/torch. I considered getting the torch trait, but since I mainly fought in staff decided to stick with the illusion trait line. The prestige usually got off cd by the time I needed it anyways. I may be confused about hot join though. All of the arenas I’ve been joining have been labelled unranked. It seems from what you said that is something different, in which case I don’t even know what hot join is.
Personally, I’m looking forward to changing things up once HoT comes. Though I’d probably try something different from a condi build, it seems chronomancer will have a good deal more chasing potential. I’m hoping to at least work out a build that while offering good results, doesn’t make me think it’s just the build doing the work. For typical untanked pvp though, I’m surprised not to see more people running tanky condi mesmers. While you definately remember facing the good teams, vast majority simply aren’t.
@Immensus: Know what you mean about ranger. When I started GW2 I thought rangers might be pretty fun collecting the pets and everything, but for some reason all ranged physical classes have always seemed boring to play as. Now mesmers… That’s something you don’t see in every video game. Closest I’ve ever seen to it are psionics in Allods, and that’s only in concept. Funny enough, I find both very fun to play as.
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