Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think the issue of “right” to complain is what the OP is getting at. What the OP is probably trying to say, and what I often try to say is is it reasonable to complain?

There are very reasonable complaints, and there are not so reasonable complaints. There are reasonable ways to phrase complaints and unreasonable ways to phrase them.

We haven’t had a new zone since launch is demonstrably untrue. We got a new zone since July and people are still saying there are no new zones. That’s not reasonable, particularly if we keep getting more with the new living story.

I still see complaints about temporary content, even though none of the new content has been temporary. The last temporary content we got was months ago. In a year’s time, if this keeps up there’ll be a lot more content.

It’s reasonable to want stuff. It’s not reasonable to exaagerate your argument to get what you want, and it doesn’t help your cause.

Reasonable complaints expressed reasonably I almost never go after.

It’s when people are, in my opinion, unreasonable that I take issue.

Well what is unreasonable to one person is reasonable to another. Dishonesty and hyperbole are one thing, but sometimes people just outright disagree and it gets misconstrued as exaggeration, when it is just a difference of opinion.

For example, if I were to say that the game “hasn’t added any significant content since launch,” I am making a subjective claim that is open to personal interpretation.

DarkWasp.7291:

It’s just that stuff bought from the gemstore tend to be instant gratification. Half the fun of MMOs (and RPGs) for a lot of us is working to make our characters appear and shine the way we want them to. If an armor appears on the gemstore, we can get it in 2 seconds (well actually more like 46+ because the TP aint that fast.) That just isn’t gameplay.

This is a good point and a good way to put it. Grinding out generic gold to acquire certain things is a double-edged sword; on the one hand, it’s good design because it means you don’t need to go do X type of gameplay you hate to get Y item (e.g. gold is a “universal” currency).

But on the other hand, it means that your gameplay goals are going to center around maximizing gold gain. Which ends up restricting your gameplay anyway because you wind up doing the stuff that gets you gold at the best rate. And some gameplay choices are just not a good way to get gold.

It is the same thing we see with karma; karma is a universal currency, but people end up doing karma trains in particular optimal areas to obtain it for the items they need.

I wonder if perhaps the issue here is too strong of a focus on currency (not just in reference to the gem store, but as a general rule). One alternative that exists in some forms is reward tracks; you accomplish X, Y, Z set of objectives over time and you get certain rewards for it. The only problem with this is that you are now looking at a non-varied path to obtaining the rewards. For example, a WvW track can only ever be completed in WvW content.

What I would be interested to see in practice is an objective-based reward track for an item; one that can be completed through a variety of different gameplay areas and is currency-free. Not unlike how Daily/Monthly objectives work.

It’s possible that it’s already been done in this game and I’m simply not thinking of it. But I suspect that such a reward track would feel more engaging and interesting than pure item releases that center around currency.

Bleu.5079:

Labjax.2465:

Bleu.5079:

All these new stuff is fancy and all but the point for us vets is, it’s not retroactive! So the super rare and expensive items that I acquired through hard work, sweat and blood all those years/months ago do not apply now?

Well some things I guess, but anything that you unlocked in wardrobe or have on your character will count, according to the post.

Even wardrobe unlocks is a new feature that wasn’t retroactive. I have to collect all those rare items again. I’m not a hoarder. Great, now I have to tough through dungeon runs again to collect tokens for those dungeon armor/weapons.

Sorry to hear that. I’m just saying that for this particular feature, it is largely retroactive for what your progress is now.

Rich Fuel.7253:

you dont have rights to complain!

We don’t have any “right” to complain, using Anet’s software (such as their forums). But Anet gladly gives us the ability to complain using their software, as long as we are respectful.

Because without feedback, good and bad, they are flying blind. Without it, they may just crash into the ocean and mess up your fun. So if you don’t like the attitudes that go along with people trying to let the pilots know what is outside the plane and where it is going, then I suggest you let the rest of us continue to help them navigate and enjoy your flight.

In other words, if you don’t want to deal with the darker side of feedback, I suggest you keep your forum reading to a minimum.

Bleu.5079:

All these new stuff is fancy and all but the point for us vets is, it’s not retroactive! So the super rare and expensive items that I acquired through hard work, sweat and blood all those years/months ago do not apply now?

Well some things I guess, but anything that you unlocked in wardrobe or have on your character will count, according to the post.

In his defense, he is reading super dry, factual material. You could be Morgan Freeman and still bore people to death, reading those kind of facts.

Also, FWIW, I’ve never felt like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. In fact, I had assumed he’s the one making a lot of the changes.

Don’t forget that when you are highly familiar with something (especially to the point of being an “expert”) it is difficult to go back and remember what it was like to have no idea what you were doing.

I’ll admit that I didn’t know you could try to heal yourself in downed state until I saw someone doing it in a video.

I like it. I am already something of a collector and the first time I saw the collections panel, I thought it was literally for collecting, so this is a welcome and logical set of changes for me.

gennyt.3428:

And fill most of your inventory space with 1 porous bones per slot. Kinda like how I stocked up on useless maps in Lineage II before I went on a pk rampage

I immediately thought of this sort of thing as well LOL.

Ayrilana.1396:

Like all other discussions, quite a number do not cone to agreement with one side or another. Our disagreements are over the definition of what support is and we will likely not ever agree. I’ve stated my points and I’m quite certain i could get even more detailed but honestly it’s not worth the effort because in the end we still would not agree.

I’m thinking we’ll have to just agree to disagree on this one.

Well for what it’s worth, part of the reason I disagree is because there is no single obvious definition of contribution in a game like this. Even in the realm of monetary support, when does one become a “true” supporter of the game? Upon buying the box? After the first store purchase? Only if he/she makes regular purchases?

It is always going to be nebulous and for that reason alone, I think it’s harmful to try to define it based on money because we just wind up with some people looking down on others, for reasons that aren’t even agreed upon.

More than anything, that’s why I consider everyone who plays a supporter of the game; it means I will respect/treat everyone the same and it is a simple way to look at it.

Lot of people gonna be makin’ baaaaaank.

Ayrilana.1396:

Flawed example. Most purchases are small amounts by many players. Players are less likely to spend money on a “dead” game such as in your example. Monetary support keeps the game running.

Do you support your local transportation services by riding the transit, rail, etc for free without paying? Do you support your local schools by sending your children there but you do not pay taxes?

There’s a difference between supporting a game by playing and supporting a game by financial means. Financial means has a much bigger impact than active players in regards to keepibg a game alive. An MMO such as GW2 will die faster with dwindling financial support much quicker than it would with dwindling active players.

I do not consider freeloading as support.

Yeah, note that you said yourself “will die faster with dwindling financial support” and with that, I agree 100%. But that’s not what you said the first time. You said that financial support is the only thing keeping the game alive, which is simply not true.

An MMO is not a school or a transportation system. It is a 100% optional piece of entertainment, competing against countless other entertainment options and many of its mechanics work based on a consistently large number of active players. Putting lots of hours into an MMO is not “freeloading” – you are, by choosing to play X MMO over Y MMO, helping maintain X as a successful business venture.

For example, say Mr. No-Money is a hugely active player who is paying nothing in the store. Through the game mechanics, he gets a bunch of really cool items, some of which can be bought with gold (by buying gems and converting them to gold). John Doe Huge-Wallet sees No-Money’s cool stuff and wants what he has, but Huge-Wallet doesn’t have the time to go grind the gold. So he goes to the store and gets gold through gem purchasing.

Guess what? Mr. No-Money just indirectly made the game some money. He is free advertisement to what can be obtained.

Obtena.7952:

The gemstore, as much as you seem to dislike it, is the only important thing that keeps this game alive. If you take anything away from this discussion, understand at least that much.

Uhhhhh… no. It’s the key source of continued monetary support for the game. It’s not “the only important thing that keeps the game alive.” You could have 5 people spending $50,000 a day each in gem store purchases and the game will still be dead if they are the only ones playing.

Carighan.6758:

@JonPeters

Trait unlocks
Problem: Unlock trigger has very little to do with trait unlocked in most cases.
Why is this a problem?: If the idea is to introduce a system to a new player, and teach them about it, the unlock not relating to the trait is just really confusing. Why did I get this just now?
Proposal: Rework unlocks so that they directly or indirectly relate to the trait unlocked.

Examples:

• Falling damage reduction traits unlock if you survive a fall closely (<10% HP).
• On-dodge traits would unlock after X successful dodges. It follows logically, you dodges a lot, here, a trait to dodge even better!
• On-downed traits unlock from 5-10 times rallying yourself from downed.

Etc. Some are based on doing something related X times, others are one-time-only like the falling one, yet others are based on specific combinations of circumstances (Engineer -20% damage when knocked down gained from taking downing damage by an attack which would knock you away otherwise).

But in all cases, the trait unlocked has something to do with what you were doing when you unlocked it.

I like this way of approaching unlocks. It makes me excited at the thought of unlocking traits.

While we’re on the subject of offending trait unlocks, how about you make a lot of them unlock through skill challenges?

It’s just a random thought I had – could be a terrible idea. The immediate merit I see in it is that: 1) It’s fairly easy to unlock solo 2) It gets people more skill points at the same time, which is always a good thing. 3) There’s no “wait time” for something (such as an event) to happen – you can do it whenever you want.

Eric.6109:

pray, what is the impact on game and community?

I think Jovel covered some of the ways in which its influence is suspect.

Also, the segmentation of mindset is an example all on its own and is disturbingly apparent in this thread, with only one page so far; differences in attitude concerning players who spend a lot of money in the store vs. players who don’t. One person went so far as to say that people who buy gems are the ones “supporting the game” and the rest are not.

But the main issue as I see it is that the “experience” of buying gems and “supporting the game” feels separate from the “experience” of playing the game. It is as if avoiding spending real money by utilizing the exchange is a mini-game all of its own, the reason being that many purchases are no more distinguishable or desirable than any other expensive items you could find for purchase on the Trading Post.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out, a lot (if not most) of the new “item” releases come out through the store. And although it’s understandable from a “Anet needs to pay the bills” point-of-view, it makes players without overflowing wallets feel like they must do one of two things to stay connected with these game additions: 1) Pull out their wallet anyway or 2) Hardcore farm hundreds of gold to funnel it into the exchange (sometimes for a limited-time item).

Neither of which feel like an option to “play” the game. That’s just a few things that come to mind. There may be more that I’m not thinking of.

Eric.6109:

But most of items are available in game. So there are some exclusive skins in the gem store. So what? It doesn’t harm the reward system in any way, because no reward from bosses or dungeons is just a skin.

And you can always get stuff from gem store by converting your gold to gems, making everything accessible to everyone.

This is a tired old diatribe that leads to stagnant, boring argument.

It’s not about the items themselves; it’s about the impact those items have on the overall game experience and the community.

Which is not something that can be fairly minimized into “just go get the currency if you want it.” You are trying to simplify a complex subject.

By the way, I feel it’s worth noting that although you can pay for a lot of items on the TP, nearly every item in the game (if not all), with the exception of Gem Store / Black Lion exclusive items, can be obtained through regular gameplay. That you can choose to buy many of them with gold, from other players, is an option, not a requirement.

And no, I am not saying that no Gem Store exclusive items should ever exist, in case anyone takes such an interpretation. The point is that it’s not the same experience and saying it is because you can pay gold still doesn’t make it the same experience.

Lishtenbird.2814:

You, as many other people, operate under a false assumption that Gem Store contains rewards for playing the game. That is incorrect.

• By playing the game, you get rewarded for playing the game. I.e. by playing in Dry Top, you get new weapon skins, new stats weapon/armour/food recipes, 3 new backpieces up to ascended, mask, goggles, kites.

• By paying money in Gem Store, you get “rewarded” for supporting the game. I.e. by paying money, you can get a mini or a Ley Line weapon/armour skin.

There are several reasons why people are still seeing a connection between in-game rewards and Gem Store while there is none:

• Gem Store items may be themed according to the current Living Story.
• You can open Gem Store inside the game and not in a browser.
• ANet was kind enough to let people convert farmed gold to gems, making the Gem Store closer to the in-game economy. Maybe if ANet wasn’t so kind, that would’ve removed this misconception. Should they remove this option now maybe to remedy the situation?

This is a gross oversimplification of how it works though. Everyone who plays the game is supporting the game (and supported it when they bought the box). Their activity alone supports the game by making the game world active. They are not all directly handing over money to Anet, but to imply that people are only supporting the game if they are buying from the Gem Store is exactly the kind of segmentation that has these models leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean, at what point does one become a “true” supporter of the game? After the first Gem Store purpose? Only if he/she makes regular purchases?

Players shouldn’t feel disjointed from the overall experience because they’re under a certain threshold of spending money on the game. And because a lot of us come from the days of sub games where new content is always available to subscribers, it’s an odd and alienating feeling to see new content that is behind a paywall. (I realize I’m using the term “content” liberally here, considering that I’m thinking of stuff like skins – but it is a kind of content, even if it is not what we generally think of when we talk about content updates in MMOs.)

That is how it strikes me.

The TP in this game is one of the most robust trading interfaces I’ve seen. I don’t feel any need to do face-to-face trading with it on hand.

Sure, being able to circumvent the tax easily would be nice. We all love the idea of more money. But as others have pointed out, the tax serves a variety of important purposes that all impact trade and how we experience it.

I know what you mean, though I’m not sure what the answer is. I like what Extra Credits has to say about F2P models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0

Their general message is that players should want to spend money to acquire things that they are genuinely happy to have. I think the Box o’ Fun and the Communal Boost Bonfire are both great choices for store items – in fact, they are similar in spirit to the “money ball” example that the Extra Credits video talks about.

Some store items that are not so enjoyable to buy, in my opinion, are: Black Lion Keys (there is no joy in opening a chest and getting nothing remotely desirable, which is always a possibility, since it is a dice roll), Transmutation Charges (usefulness is too fleeting).

The tendency to put new skins in the store is understandable because it takes development time to put them together, so the cost has to be justified somehow.

However, because games like these offers tons of other skins through general gameplay and a lot of work is put into some of these gem store skins, I know that I get this feeling like I am segmented from a portion of the playerbase. I am active and ready to participate in new stuff but can’t because I can’t monetarily afford to.

For me, it’s not so much about the items themselves as it is being able to have that experience of feeling connected with the life and updates of the game. It is a big part of what keeps me wrapped up in MMOs much longer than single-player games.

Have you gotten every achievement?

It clearly hasn’t been an effective way to manage player expectations. But if it gets people excited, then I guess it’s worth it for them, from a marketing standpoint.

At this point, I would just like to see the rest of it laid out before me, so that I know what to expect from the feature pack. Something tells me they’re not done with it though, and the staggered release is just as much a marketing ploy as a way to give them room to finalize certain features.

Just a guess.

Bloodstealer.5978:

You miss the point.. I wasn’t saying the TP would be flooded with Ecto…
If I can just craft low level rare then I wont be needing to buy any ecto’s anymore.. its a lot cheaper buying low level mats or farming them in quantity then making the rares for salvage… plus when I salvage I will naturally replace some of those mats I have used.. therefore ecto demand will drop.. sure at some point the TP might begin to see an influx when players have gotten all they need and begin to off load for profits but that is the same with anything – fact is it is still cheaper to simply farm a load of iron etc make a rare, salvage and sell the ectos for more than the crafted item cost… whether the demand will be high enough though is another story but as the items will become so cheap to make the Ecto price could be cut in half and there would be profit to be made.
The low level rares you see on the TP currently are hugely over priced for the amount of time they are actually useful to the player but if we can now craft rares for ecto’s at even lower levels.. why spend on higher level rares anymore… the economy would fall foul by a slow up in demand for the higher level rares as players will just craft their own low levels cheaply and salvage.. so its could create a double whammy on demand imo.

Bolded part is debatable though, and as I said before, due to lots of people trying to rush to utilize those mats for crafting rares, the price of the mats would likely go up, eventually putting you at a monetary loss to waste your mats (even if you farm them) on crafting for your needed ectos.

Even now, it may be a monetary loss for some rares.

Does that make sense?

Bloodstealer.5978:

OK so Ill just go craft a couple of hundred low level rare items every hour to get me some ecto’s.. .. you seem to think ecto’s only drop from rare stuff you find along your stroll through the maps… I can sit and craft/salvage low level ecto’s to my hearts content. safe in the knowledge I could sell the ecto’s for more than the item was worth and still build up a supply of mats to remake more items… silly idea imo

Go put some work in like the rest of us have to, is all I am saying, instead of looking for an easywin.

Why would you though, when you could pay less and just buy them?

You can already craft rares that are level 65 or level 80. People just don’t do it in mass quantities because the mats are not cheap to come by. The only motivation is for the sole purpose of trying to flood the market with extra ectos.

And it would probably be the same way with this suggested change.

I still kind of disagree with the ecto idea for different reasons, but this notion of it flooding the market – I’m not “buying” it.

Astral Projections.7320:

Have y’all forgotten that drops aren’t the only way to get rares? Rares at level 35 and on up can be crafted by all the professions. (Here is the lowest level for armorsmith. This is the helm, the whole suit can be crafted also: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gladiator_Helm)

If ectos could be salvaged from level 35 and up crafted gear, that would most definitely affect the market.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armorsmith
Rank Rating Gear Level Variations of Armor Name
Novice 0 – 74 5 – 20 8 Fine, 6 Masterwork Chain
Initiate 75 – 149 25 – 35 8 Fine, 7 Masterwork, 7 Rare Scale, Gladiator
Apprentice 150 – 224 40 – 50 7 Fine, 8 Masterwork, 7 Rare Splint, Gladiator
Journeyman 225 – 299 55 – 65 7 Fine, 7 Masterwork, 8 RareReinforced Scale, Gladiator
Adept 300 – 399 70 – 80 9 Fine, 9 Masterwork, 10 Rare Barbaric, Gladiator
Master 400 – 499 80 20 Exotic Draconic
Grandmaster 500 80 19 Ascended Illustrious

Fair point. For the sake of argument, aren’t they kind of pricey to make though? I mean, they usually sell for around 60s-1g+ a piece. I know the price to make them isn’t quite that much, but it’s still not dirt cheap.

If we’re being realistic about how this would affect the economy, we also have to take into account the price of mats for crafting these average yellow items going up as a result of the increased demand from people trying to craft them for ectos… which would probably stabilize quickly to a point where you’re paying more to make the item than you would get from selling 1 ecto.

So although (in theory) it could flood the market with a ton of ectos, the benefit from obtaining them through crafting wouldn’t necessarily be as good as it sounds.

Tulki.1458:

I thought about this for a bit, and it’s probably redundant to make another thread but here’s how I’d do it:

Traits unlock at level 15. You get one trait point at that level and another every 5 levels. At level 30 the Master traits open up and at level 60 the Grandmaster traits open up.

Three ways to unlock individual traits:
1) Objectives (like it is now).
2) Purchased tomes (like it is now).
3) New – PvE trait reward tracks.

There are a few types of tracks, all active at once.
i) Experience track: Every five levels you gain (including at level 80) grants you a random Adept trait that you have not already learned. If you own all Adept traits, this will grant a random Master trait. If you own all Master traits, it will be a random Grandmaster trait. The reasoning behind randomizing this is to still have incentive to complete specific trait objectives, though the trait you learn from this is always one you haven’t already earned. This track is also meant to encourage trying other builds, and ensures everyone has a decent selection of traits as they level up.

ii) Dungeon tracks: There’s one of these for each dungeon, and it’s not repeatable. Beat story mode for a dungeon and you get to choose any Adept tome. Beat an explorable path and you get to choose any Adept or Master tome. Beat all paths for a dungeon and you get to choose a Grandmaster tome.

iii) Explorer tracks: There’s one for each zone. Fully completing any zone in the game will grant a random trait in exactly the same way as reward track (i).

Thanks for sharing. I like the spirit of this, though I’m not sure how I feel about large-scale revising of the trait-unlocking system. I’m largely of the opinion that if the book cost is reduced, it can stay as is, as an optional way to unlock, without needing extra design work.

That said, speaking hypothetically, I think the kind of system you’re proposing would feel more robust if it gave you a choice no matter which track, rather than a random unlock. Mainly because random unlock could wind up feeling like a frustrating game of “hope I get lucky this time or else I have to go buy what I need.”

I don’t see this destabilizing the ecto market (I’m not sure where that Chicken Little notion is coming from).

However, it might confuse newbies. Ectos are used for high-level items, so it makes sense that they come from high level rares. If they start dropping from low-level items, newbies will end up with an item that they don’t understand and can’t use.

With that in mind, I suggest something a little bit different, in the spirit of making low-level rares useful, even when salvaged: Give them an ecto-like chance of dropping a rare mat (one of the ones used in crafting the special rare gear, such as a Large Skull).

Kaz.5430:

With the recent blog regarding the new player levelling up changes, I think that they’ve probably done a lot of work trying to make each level up rewarding. If you move things from 6’s to 5’s, I think it’ll mess with that system.

That said, something like this ought to work just as well and ought to not have a side effect of making the level-up rewards out of sync with whatever they plan:

18 x1, 24 x1, 30 x1, 36 x1, 42 x1, 48 x1, 54 x1, 60 x1, 66 x1, 72 x1, 78 x2, 80 x2

Maybe so. I’m not sure how important the numbers themselves are. Your take on it could work too.

The whole “giving 2 for the first unlock” is something that may be a bit confusing, giving 1 on every other unlock, but it’s something I feel would make veterans a lot happier with the system.

Your thought for 18×1 and 24×1 could work better to keep out the confusion, while making the first “blank” slot available distinctly sooner.

Guhracie.3419:

I’m not trying to disregard your idea. You’re right. There are plenty of complaints in that thread. But there are also a lot of good ideas that are months old, and I’m pretty unhappy about that. It’s worthy of discussion, but I don’t have the energy for doing it, myself, and given how merge-happy they’ve been with threads of this sort, I really think it’s unlikely to stand alone for long.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there are people who aren’t talked-out about this topic. You’ve got good ideas, and you’ve presented them well. It’s not that I lack respect for your ideas, it’s that I lack faith in anet’s response. I’m sorry if I sounded brusque.

No hard feelings – just figured I’d take the opportunity to explain my reasoning a bit more.

Guhracie.3419:

Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.

Thanks for your input.

The reason I want this separate from the mega thread is because that thread is full of a lot of general complaints/ideas. I want to give them something more meaty and focused to chew on – something that will (potentially) alleviate a lot of the complaints without undermining the spirit of the original changes.

If people are not interested in talking about such a thing, then I am out of luck, but I’m hoping that they are. I know that talking about it doesn’t mean that Anet will instantly do something; it’s more to give the complaints some practical direction.

Any thoughts on this?

I still think that if they weren’t something you have to “earn,” then people wouldn’t be so obsessed with tagging up to show off. Granted, it may be too late to shift peoples’ mindset now.

I’m putting this in a thread all its own, so it can have some pointed discussion.

The idea:

• Move trait unlock down to level 20 and give 2 trait points at that level (can shuffle around other level-based unlocks, if necessary).
• Unlock one pre-chosen Blue trait for the “achievement” of reaching level 20. Furthermore, show a recommended path to choose (the one where the Blue trait is unlocked).
• Give 1 more trait point every 5 levels after to reach the total of 14 (25, 30, 35, 40, etc.)
• Slash trait book prices down to 1/4 of current price and remove skill point cost.

Breakdown of Why:

• Assuming that the current system is designed to introduce new players to the trait system at a reasonable pace, moving the first unlock down 10 levels shouldn’t harm this – you still pace them. It will also give alt-making veterans quicker access to trait use.
• Giving 2 points for the first unlock is so that players can use their first “blank” slot as soon as possible. This is intended as more of a nod toward veterans than a boon for newbies, but because one Blue trait gets automatically unlocked, even newbies will have a guaranteed slot they can fill with something, without needing to understand trait books or buy one of them.
• Slashing the prices on trait books and removing the skill cost is mostly intended to be a plus for veterans. They will already know how trait books work and will be the most likely to utilize them before level 80. The reason for removing the skill cost is that we shouldn’t have it conflicting with the purchase of skills, which are, arguably, equally useful.

The goal here is to compromise between the needs of veterans and the need for introducing newbies to how the game works in a way that is not overwhelming.

Let me know what you think, or any modifications, etc., that you think would improve this idea.

Thanks.

ExtraCosmic pretty much covered what I was going to say about perception. +1

I will just say that I think it’s absolutely worth it if you do a lot of event farming (e.g. stuff where you’re killing a lot of high level mobs in large numbers). That’s where you’re really going to see the benefits, in my experience.

Thanks for the input and giving this topic some life, guys. I would be ok with a higher price than originally suggested, though for me, it is mainly a matter of desiring incremental spending most of all.

Not unlike buying pieces of the level 80 cultural armor. But being able to buy specific pieces at a significantly higher cost per would be ok with me as a middle ground and I would probably utilize it.

Enenion.8127:

If you want me to be honest, I would tell ANet to open their eyes and honestly make Skill and Trait balance a priority across all game modes, because right now it’s pretty clear that it is not and the game does suffer because of it.

Sorry for the long post.

I understand your frustration and I never played GW1, so I don’t know how largely that differed, but I do want to say: They are taking competitive PvP very seriously in this game.

If their system was set up to separate PvE and PvP skills completely, then they could try new skills in PvE and then consider porting them over to PvP, but I’m not sure their system has that kind of flexibility.

And if it doesn’t, then every new skill and every new trait means more balancing for the competitive PvP scene. Overpowered builds crop up or new skills get watered out of fear of imbalancing the game and end up useless/unused.

I do agree with you that the trait system could use some work and it would be awesome to see new cool skills, but I don’t think it’s as simple as it would seem, unfortunately. :/

Astral Projections.7320:

Here he is talking about costumes but he talks a little about armor also.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/21k4j8/curtis_johnson_on_the_town_clothes_issue/
“When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece).. There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. So we needed something new to continue to grow in the future. Outfits give us a way to create highly stylized looks that aren’t constrained to armor slots or weight class".

He is saying the way armor is set up, they can’t be mixed across classes. I would also assume, even though he didn’t say it here, that they can’t be worn on another class at all, not just mixed.

So it’s a failure of not future-proofing then. That’s kind of a sad conclusion to this line of thought.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been saying this all along. Anet has so much data coming in. You can argue perhaps that they’re misinterpreting the data, but they know so much more about traffic patterns in this game than we do.

So they make decisions on what they know.

Suppose, hypothetically, that 20% of the player base comes to the forums (which is I think a high estimate) and of that 20% only 20% actually post, which I also think it a high estimate. That means only 5% of the player base are posting here on the forums. For sure the most engaged, active part of the community.

However, I played Guild Wars 1 for an obscene number of hours, had my own guild, played that game to death and almost never posted on any forums. The one time I posted was when I’d been hacked. Other than that, no forums saw me.

I’m sure a lot of people wished that had continued. lol

Well yeah, sometimes they really know and sometimes they don’t know much of anything. Data has its limits and so does time to test certain things and gather data on it. So that’s why when I give feedback, I treat it all the same, until I’m told otherwise; as if they don’t know a lot and my feedback might help them make a more informed decision.

Things like the commander tag debacle show that sometimes they really haven’t done a lot of research and then things like the downed state change show us just how much research they can put in.

That said, I almost never think that they are directly going to implement/change things based on my words alone. I see my feedback as another data point that I am giving them and they can compare it against the rest of the ones they have sitting in front of them.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Thanks for the link, I could not find it. Probably because of the ‘ArenaColin’ thing. Lol.

Not only the information about early game mechanics, but it’s interesting hearing about the percentage of forum-users/Reddit-users ratio to game players, as well. You learn something every day!

Yup! I wasn’t exactly surprised to hear that they used extensive usability testing (I know it’s something valuable in any kind of software) but I was nonetheless impressed to know that they’re utilizing it so heavily, even for something as simple as downed state.

Tobbo.7601:

$578ish I believe (calc) Fair bit for a item. Will have a good think about it. £346. I’m guessing i pay dollars as I’m on US server (friends made me)..

Yeah, I’m not sure how that works. You’re probably right.

Good luck with your decision. I wouldn’t pay that much, but then, I don’t have money to throw around either, so… yeah.

Anyway, have fun out there.

Vayne.8563:

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

Incidentally, where was this posted? I missed it.

It was a response on reddit.

Thanks, found it. For anyone else who might be interested, the post in question is in this reddit topic:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Previous poster said approximately 5000 Gold, or 630 dollars in cash.

^Yup.

I used napkin math, but even with exact numbers, you’re probably looking at a range of 600+ dollars US. I’m not sure what that is in Euros, if you’re EU.

Basically, it’s probably not worth it, unless you get some really amazing bonuses for extra work hours and you have nothing else to spend money on. The going price for Eternity on the TP is definitely the most absurd part in all of this. 5k+ gold for one item, as I’m looking at it right now.

Vayne.8563:

Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

Incidentally, where was this posted? I missed it.

Well let’s see, looks like current conversion rate is roughly 10 gold for every 100 gems, so $10 for 800 gems = 80 gold.

Eternity is selling for ~5000 gold atm, so 5000 / 80 = ~63.

63 * $10 = ~$630

Good luck with that.

Spira.4578:

Was this supposed to be funny?
And you missed the point completely.
First of all Anet is not our mom. Second of all, we’re their costumers so here’s a more appropriate conversation.

Merchant: Hello dear costumer, are you searching for something in particular?
Buyer: Salad, tomatoes, maybe lettuce, or some similar vegetables.
Merchant: Ah vegetables, I see. Here, have some detergent.
Buyer: It’s nice that you have detergent, but i don’t really need it. I need vegetables.
Merchant: Oh well, come back later. We don’t currently have it yet, but hey! it’s definitely on the table.

Yes, it was, and I got a good laugh out of writing it.

But sorry, no, I did not miss the point. I just disagree. I’m quite aware that Anet is not our mom and we are not 5-year-olds. You’d think that would be something that goes without saying, but I guess it does not.

The point is that it’s easy to look and think that the community is shouting for a few specific things and Anet just needs to do those things and we’ll all be happy. But the reality is much different.

For example, notice how varied the desired features are in this thread alone (and it’s barely 2 pages):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-are-3-features-that-you-wish-the-most/first

Would be nice if they’d just say what it’s going to be. I don’t understand how they can talk about it in a blog post, but they apparently can’t give a little clarification on the details?

Makes me think it’s not finalized yet and they are still reading and taking the feedback into account. I don’t understand the silence otherwise, especially with their recent efforts to communicate more.

Nilkemia.8507:

Manasa Devi.7958:

The whole discussion would be more interesting if there was even the tiniest shred of evidence that Phlunt wasn’t 100% on the up-and-up.

Besides the fact that he changed the deal at the last minute, conveniently didn’t show until the Inquest were gone, and continued to be a obstructive jerk even after he got his way?

Silly man, clearly we need to get a subpoena to get Phlunt in court and get him tried by a jury with the right amount of evidence. And then we will only be able to get him a couple of years in jail.

Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?

Spira.4578:

The thing is – in every single interview where the reporter asked players what should he ask anet, same features kept poping up. Anet should know by now what players actually want and focus on those features first regardless on how hard it is.

Mom: “Hey kids! What do you want for dinner!”

“Pizza!”
“I want lasagna.”
“CAKE!”
“Pasta…”
“Meatloaf!”
“Steak”
“Vegetables. Nothing but vegetables.”

Mom: “Ok… I’m just gonna make what’s most cost effective…”

“You’re a terrible mother.”
“Wow, I’m starving here and you’re going to feed me nothing?”
“I’m wasting away, mommy, help me…”
“I’m just gonna buy take-out then.”
“Yeah, I’m gonna go eat at my friend’s house. At least his mom actually cares.”
“Fine, whatever. I’ll eat it for now, but you better have steak next time.”
“Screw this, I’m unsubscribing.”

Mom: “Honey, I’m your mother, you can’t unsubscribe.”

“I’m gonna go live in a foster home then. I will have none of this.”

Mom: “You’re five…”

“So?”

Azrael.4960:

This isn’t about the “power” of one guild. This is about the inability, perhaps even incompetence, of other players to actually do the same level of organisation as the guilds who make the attempt.

As an EU player I’ve been on numerous runs with the guilds who organise runs there. If people are too lazy to exert the effort to learn the ropes then the fault lies not on the guilds but the players. Why shouldn’t guilds organise for their members as a priority? That’s the point of being in a good guild, you get to do fun stuff together. If there’s room for non members who are willing to play by your standards then the more the merrier, however they should not arrive expecting to be automatically included.

It never even occurred to me to say a word about Wurm until now, so clearly it’s not a major issue for me.

That said, I just find it kind of odd that every single other world boss can be done without needing to join a guild or use third-party VOIP. It creates an expectation that all bosses shouldn’t need such levels of dedication and organization, so when one comes around that is beyond that, it confuses people.

Anyway, I don’t think that’s what the topic was about. And it certainly isn’t about being lazy and wanting to get carried. If that was the desire in question, people could just go join the guild, sit in teamspeak at the right time, and get carried.

I think it’s a cool idea. If rewards are a concern, just tweak them down a bit for someone who is using these NPCs. 100% solo would be the same as I’m imagining it.

And if population is a concern, the lowered rewards would take care of that. People aren’t going to choose NPC-solo version over pure solo or player group for the sheer heck of it if the rewards are distinctly less in comparison.

knives.6132:

All I’m saying is that if you are “joining” in an organized raid and you’re not the one organizing the raid, at least put an effort to follow the rules they set.

People who act like “I wanna do this but I don’t like going to TS but TS is required wa wa wa” annoys me. Show some respect to the organizers by following their instructions. Not like they are getting paid.

It’s like posting for lfg – “zerk only” and some cleric dude joins, got kicked and QQ’s that the party is elitist. Duh.

I have the utmost respect for people who organize such things. I use to do it myself in another game (thank god I wasn’t the head guy most of the time – just secondary).

I understand where you’re coming from on TS and for this fight, maybe it’s essential, but I have been in pug raids in other games where people basically say, “Be on TS/vent/whatever if you don’t know the fights. If you do, we don’t care.” In other words, if you are good enough and know what you’re doing, it’s not really a requirement.

Now to do the coordinated head thing, that may not be the case here. But I can see how some people might feel like requiring TS is excessive, especially if they are good players. My guild used to require Ventrilo for raids, so I feel you, man – although, to be fair, those raids were largely a lot harder than anything this game has.

I just go “wait a minute…” if it feels like people are saying that the individual effort required is more than it is – that being part of an organized raid is a mark of skill and prestige all on its own, when it’s really not.

Yargesh.4965:

Minimum you need 3 *commanders’ who are in direct contact with each other for timed kill.
3 deboof
3 condi per head to kill husks unless you don’t need to (which I personally don’t like when it is done that way).
damage for when damage can be done.
If people where as good as they think then ts would never be needed. People are never as good as they think and mob mentality takes over when there are several people doing the same thing.

Sounds about right.