No I am not refering to versatilty in builds. Sure glyphs are versatile but they aren’t viable so your point is pretty moot at least for pvp where eles need a lot of help.
They are viable in PvP. I’ve been using them for months in both WvW and sPvP now.
The heal glyph and elite glyph (just because there is nothing better) are viable in pvp, the utility ones are not.
You simply cannot change your tactic in fights by much as an ele because of attunement cooldowns and needing to use all 4 to do damage as I wrote before.
You can by changing the order in which you use them. Fire->Water-Earth does something completely different than Fire->Earth-Water. At least, it does for combos and evasive arcana purposes.
Glyphs would be versatile if they were balanced for once. GoEP is a trainwreck just like the rez glyph, lesser elementals are really lacking abilities and glyph of storms is only good in earth for the blind. Casting glyph of storms in any other attunement is a waste of a utility slot.
They have some issues, but GoEP isn’t a trainwreck. It’s just misunderstood. For some reasons people seem to think it’s a stunbreaker with a preparation effect. It’s not. It’s a preparation effect that you can also happen to use as a stunbreaker if you want to. It’s all about having options, and this glyph happens to have 5 instead of 4.
GoEP has too much tension which isn’t good design.
So again the theoretical versatilty of glyphs is put down by all of them being underpowered and/or overnerfed.
Or being misused.
Arcane skills by themselves are the most boring skills ever in an MMO. They only get interesting and versatile with Elemental Surge, which again noone takes in pvp because it is up against Evasive Arcana which is just leaps and bounds better.
Boring is irrelevant when it comes to balancing.
Boring is very relevant when it comes to game design
In general I love the concept of the downed state. I think it’s the one thing that makes a game without healers (and tanks in pve) work. So no, I would not have it removed.
In a Teamfight downed state really shines. I do recon that there is a problem in 1v2s though, seeing as if you outfight 2 opponents and down one you will still lose generally. Maybe starting the “finish him” move should give a short aoe interrupt? So you could interrupt the rezzing enemy and then stomp the downed player? In a teamfight you usually have stability so it wouln’t matter but it could help 1v2s.
Also all classes downed state abilities need looking at. IMHO thieves do too much damage, a lot of #2 abilities suck, ranger healing is insane, etc.
The thing is that you might stomp one of the downed enemies with stability (although not every class has easy access to it), but in that 1.5 secs, you’re just a sitting duck face tanking damage just to stomp someone you beat. When you do successfully stomp them, you’re pretty much guaranteed to lose to the second player.
Well it depends on the classes involved really, but I think most of the time the problem is that the enemy can be rezzed faster than you can stomp. For your own protection, thieves can stealth, eles mistform, warriors endure pain/berserker stance, guards aegis, etc.
I see so many tears about eles when rangers are the ones who really, really need help. Eles can have absurd survivability if you spec for it. On the note you also have to be very fast, know when to swap to you water and know when to dodge. Most of the ele complaints is more likely a player skill issue.
Yeah and the #1 and #2 ele players in the world changed class because they sucked at playing eles, not because the class was extremely overnerfed. /sarcasm
New stats on amulets in pvp sounds very interesting!
Also please spend as much time as possible talking about elementalists state in pvp and what you’re gonna do about them, and probably most importantly: Where you want them to be: Should they be glass cannons? Mid-bunkers like guardians? Etc.
In general I love the concept of the downed state. I think it’s the one thing that makes a game without healers (and tanks in pve) work. So no, I would not have it removed.
In a Teamfight downed state really shines. I do recon that there is a problem in 1v2s though, seeing as if you outfight 2 opponents and down one you will still lose generally. Maybe starting the “finish him” move should give a short aoe interrupt? So you could interrupt the rezzing enemy and then stomp the downed player? In a teamfight you usually have stability so it wouln’t matter but it could help 1v2s.
Also all classes downed state abilities need looking at. IMHO thieves do too much damage, a lot of #2 abilities suck, ranger healing is insane, etc.
When everybody’s wearing cool looking gear, it really isn’t cool anymore.
Why is that? Why is something worth less to you when someone else also has it?
Cool looking gear doesn’t suddenly get less cool looking just because someone else can wear it. If it does to you, you’d probably should rethink your priorities.
NO. NEVER. STOP POSTING THIS RIDICULOUS AGENDA OF YOURS. NO PILOT. NO SERIES. NO ENERGY. NO NOTHING. JUST STOP.
You know what you need to even be able to get exotic gear? Yeah, level 80. Tell that to all my level 2 pvp characters on my account.
This is a forum right? Who are you to tell people not to discuss topics? If you disagree, voice it. You did, no need to repeat yourself.
I get your point. But you are oblivious to mine.
Read my last post carefully. I stated that if a gear-based (NO GRIND) sPvP could be PILOTED, an alternative way to get similar-to-exotic gear should be implemented as well.
Please refrain from telling me to not discuss and voice my opinion, but you can go around yelling yours
Thanks
You don’t understand your own point. You argue that exotics aren’t expensive and every player should be able to pay 10 gold for them. In the next post you argue with NO GRIND in pvp. Those 2 ideas are mutually exclusive. 10 gold for exotics is a grind, simple as that. And no amount of arguing will change that fact.
1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.
This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?
The crux of the problem is: We are NOT versatile. Engineers are.
We have to constantly cycle through elements to do damage and have skills to use so if someone needs a heal RIGHT NOW, well tough luck my water attunement is on cooldown. You get hammered by burst and really could use protection and stability? Well, tough luck, earth attunement is on cooldown because it needed it for the gap closer a few seconds earlier.
Engineers on the other hand are truly versatile. Not only can they build for whatever they want (they also have A LOT more viable utility choices than we have, and their elite is gamechanging) they have no cooldown on their weapon-swap mechanic meaning if they need a knockback right now they simply switch to flamethrower and use it. And if someone needs conditions cleared right now they simply switch to elixir gun and conditions away.
Your posts shows exactly what I mean. Versatility for the elementalist is not being able to build the way you want. Versatility for the elementalist is changing your tactics during the battle. Glyphs and arcane skills are perfect examples of that: you can literally change your entire build by simply swapping attunements. What you are referring to is versatility in the making of builds, which is a different thing entirely.
No I am not refering to versatilty in builds. Sure glyphs are versatile but they aren’t viable so your point is pretty moot at least for pvp where eles need a lot of help.
You simply cannot change your tactic in fights by much as an ele because of attunement cooldowns and needing to use all 4 to do damage as I wrote before.
Glyphs would be versatile if they were balanced for once. GoEP is a trainwreck just like the rez glyph, lesser elementals are really lacking abilities and glyph of storms is only good in earth for the blind. Casting glyph of storms in any other attunement is a waste of a utility slot.
So again the theoretical versatilty of glyphs is put down by all of them being underpowered and/or overnerfed.
Arcane skills by themselves are the most boring skills ever in an MMO. They only get interesting and versatile with Elemental Surge, which again noone takes in pvp because it is up against Evasive Arcana which is just leaps and bounds better.
Imagine churning earth pulsed an immobilize instead of a cripple :o
Now that would be interesting. Maybe we wouldn’t need to flash for every single CE then, because people just waddle away.
I know.. I know. Op as hell but interesting nonetheless
An ele skill usable without using another skill to help it land? Inconceivable!
1. we are all insane , and do not know how to play our elementalists — > which implies that the devs’s opinions are : these are a bunch of wieners, so no point in bothering answering to them.
This bit has more truth in it than you’d probably care to admit. A large part of it stems from the fact that players insist on playing the elementalist like another profession instead of playing to its greatest strength: versatility. How many of you truly change their fighting style based on their opponent, or even regardless of them? How many of the dps eles actively use their support? How many combos are setup properly?
The crux of the problem is: We are NOT versatile. Engineers are.
We have to constantly cycle through elements to do damage and have skills to use so if someone needs a heal RIGHT NOW, well tough luck my water attunement is on cooldown. You get hammered by burst and really could use protection and stability? Well, tough luck, earth attunement is on cooldown because it needed it for the gap closer a few seconds earlier.
Engineers on the other hand are truly versatile. Not only can they build for whatever they want (they also have A LOT more viable utility choices than we have, and their elite is gamechanging) they have no cooldown on their weapon-swap mechanic meaning if they need a knockback right now they simply switch to flamethrower and use it. And if someone needs conditions cleared right now they simply switch to elixir gun and conditions away.
We really need the option to time the elementals abilities. The random stun from Air Elemental is really bad. It it could be timed it would be actually useful.
Elementalist needs some additional stuff for their 20% cooldown traits much more than any other class because they only get reduced cooldown on 25% of their skills as opposed to the 50% of other classes.
Engineers already have relatively miserable condition cleanse so for a build to do condition damage almost exclusively might be stopped by this trait, but it is by no means easy to spec into and doesn’t allow for amazing sustained survivability since it procs at 25% health.
The problem is it not only completely invalidates condition-only specs, it also neuters other bunker specs. Eles for example rely about 50/50 on power damage and condition damage (mostly burning) to kill people in a bunker spec. Now 50% of that damage is gone. And there is no way to kill that engi because he simply outheals your power damage.
whats wrong with Capricorn? plz don’t tell me it’s because it has water…
It’s not the water. It’s the completely and utterly ridiculous imbalance of classes underwater coupled with the fact that you can’t stomp. Eles have a lot of soft cc but no real damage at all. Rangers are ridiculous with their self healing and evading like thieves, engis simply spam targeted grenades, etc. Seriously Rangers underwater are more imba than warriors are above.
No, this will never happen. Any energy spent on further developing this idea is energy lost. The Guildwars franchise is built around the fact that there is no gear treadmill in pvp.
I believe they should split pve and pvp so that gear like rampagers can be adjusted accordingly for pve where it is currently underpowered.
It is already split for some stats. Knights is power/prec/toughness in pve but power/prec/vitality in pvp (and was recently renamed barbarian for pvp).
Yea I should have been more clear the next balance patch which will be like march probably. The could just lower cantrip cd that doesn’t require much thinking at all,
Honestly they need to step up their balance game. If we really have to wait till march till the next changes I probably will have stopped playing by then.
I think you guys are missing the point. Exotic gear is not really hard to get, and there are no gear grinds after that (as long as they don’t get added).
Exotic vs Exotic (ascended is a mere 5% boost) should be balanced, similarly to PVP gear, but more personal and rewarding.
Nope. Not only is there ascended gear which is a huge grind, but having to do ANYTHING to get the same stats on gear as other players is against the principle and would make me (and I recon a lot of true pvpers) never touch the game again.
Even the 25 skillpoints for the new heal in pvp is a joke and arenanet said that they will remedy that.
This next patch will be the reemergence patch. I feel it in my bones. I think the last patch was lets do a little now they see it wasn’t enough. I expect a change to RTL, signet of resto and cleansing water unerfed in PvP. Armor of earth finally reduced in cd.
That is all that my gut tells me.
My fear is that we still have to wait like 3 month for any changes or un-nerfs. Grouch said they would closely look at all the pvp-only nerfs in the coming weeks. And which arenanets balance patch frequency till now we’ll probably have to wait till march or april for the next real balance patch with changes for all classes.
Seeing as it took more than half a year of eles campaigning for developer attention, and only 2 weeks ago we finally got a “okay maybe eles need help in pvp” out of them, I wouldn’t count on it.
This would instantly make me quit GW2 forever. If I wanted to grind for gear I’d play pve. I don’t though, I want competitive games where skill is important. So I play PVP not WVW.
Inconsequent classdesign is the biggest weakness of the elementalist.
There is absolutely nothing which balances the lack of survivability, low health pool, low damage, too situational weaponskills and the weakness of several weapons (focus having too big cooldowns, is not direct enough; staff – WAY too slow or too little damage).
There must be something which balances weakness in general. I just see one thing which “kinda” tries to balance the whole situation as far as I understood ArenaNet by reading patch after patch: 4 elements instead of 2 weaponsets.
Sadly all of those elements are just weaker than usual weaponskills of other professions.
Those are all covered in the main post.
Which mechanic do you think Elementalists should capitalize on as their main “source” of survivability?
IMHO auras should be rebalanced to function as true active defenses for elementalists. Shocking Aura already does that for melee attackers, the problem is conditions and ranged attackers coupled with the fact that the only anti-range aura is staff exclusive.
I don’t understand why we have no glyph that simply gives us an aura depending on attunement, opening up all auras for all weapon choices.
Focus contains two skills for projectile defense an invulnerability and a ranged knocked down. The only way to actually have no projectile defense is to play /D.
Equip focus. Lose 50% of your damage. Also suddenly melee attackers kitten you.
Warriors already have a power 1handed weapon, the Axe.
We do not need another, just because you prefer swords thematically. Most other classes would KILL for the abilities on the Warrior sword. 1 alone can stack up to 10-11 bleeds with proper traits and foods.
Well i dont think this is helpful or productive feedback.
Yes we have axe. But i like sword more so i want this weapon to be viable.
Dunno why you post something like this. Because does it hurts your build if sword is also viable in power builds?
Because if they buffed the power on sword, they would have to reduce or remove the condition.
You cannot have both, this is a very very simple concept.
If Sword was geared for both power and condition, it would either be worthless to both, or completely overpowered.
True but the last hit from sword AA doesnt add bleeding.. Before the final thrust change we did had a solid AA for power builds.
With that being moved to a 15sec cooldown skill below 50%health we are left with a much weaker AA for power builds
Maybe start using your skills instead of autoattacking everything to death with your easymode class.
I’m not saying we are the greatest team but we are all pretty much top 100 ranked players EU and if a thief wants to try killing our ele he gets introduced to a warrior’s hammer in his face and then a massive burst that will take him 100 to nothing in a matter of a split second. Teamwork can make this build work.
IMO nothing in this game has the kind of burst potential and delivery that ele so it still has its uses in the right hands.
Sorry but what talent tree is the pocket warrior skill? I cant find it, so you are saying you can 2v1 in your favor with your ele and another warrior and kill an enemy, so its balanced?
THIS. This is what those people don’t seem to get. If you need someone to protect you you’re effectively making the game 4v5. Any other class would be better in your spot when it can protect itself.
Sword is extremly good for condition builds. If you buff it for power users you automatically buff it for condition builds too. So no, sword does not need buffs.
honestly its people like you that actually think the class is ok, that causes the most dmg to the class. Ele’s are absolute garbage in pvp right now, point blank end of story.
None at pax, the update did nothing to help them, mobility still garbage, no build diversity and a horrible bunker spec with the longest utility cd’s in the game. /thread
#reroll
Instead of whining about it I actually try to invent some viable, sometimes non-viable builds. I’m not saying this stuff is op but I definitely feel powerful when I play it well.
Do you actually believe pvp players just try the 0/10/0/30/30 build of yore for half an hour and then say “kitten it, ele sucks in pvp”? We’ve been trying to find new viable builds since the great nerf wave of summer ’13. None have been found.
I use Ranger runes which are currently bugged and give 5% more damage always along with more precision and crit dmg.
For traits I use 30/30/10/0/0 while using Barbarian or 0/30/10/0/30 if using zerker.
I simply posted the pictures to show that it can be done, I’m not saying the spec I was running is the most viable in PvP but I feel fairly comfortable with 20k hp and the large amount of dmg I can put out.
Understand also that you don’t need to hit 13k’s to kill enemies in sPvP, you can safely go for a more defensive set-up with Barbarian amulet while still retaining big damage. and a decent healthpool.
You’re lucky if you hit for 4k in an actual match. Showing “what can be done” proves nothing besides that you don’t know anything about actual pvp.
Then don’t play pvp and just play pve. Play what you have fun with.
I would be quite happy if all players stopped playing pvp or at least all Eles stopped playing pvp.
I don’t play pvp, but bad changes happen to my Elementalist because of … pvp…. in my pve game. It is super frustrating that something happens in a universe part that you have no part of gives causality to what you do.
Imagine that: some people find pve brainnumbingly boring and would rather slit their arms than play a single minute of it.
No, it’s impossible to get all the damage modifiers at the same time without dying in your glassy glass spec because glass eles are free kills for thieves and others.
I have over 19k hp how is that glassy? One of the eles I play with Rizadon uses a similar spec, he seems to be doing fine sitting at #1 in Solo Queue.
LOL hp don’t matter. Not having toughness makes you glassy. And any competent thief will do 19k damage in a few seconds to you.
Basically because there are some classes that are almost unstoppable while running orbs due to broken mechanincs (Like wars and rangers first of all and eles depending on their spec) while some others can’t even try to do it…wars can go invulnerable zerk+endure pain without losing orb while thieves can’t go stealth, rangers can use leaps on leaps going from orb to point in seconds while is gonna take forever with mesmer…and so on…
Time ago, when they implemented spirit watch in tpvp, i did champ hunter only rerolling from mesmer and running orbs then never want back to that kitten class…
LOL eles are the worst flag runnes. None of their leaps or speedboosts work while carrying the orb.
Neither of those hits are possible in an actualy match so your screenshots don’t proof anything.
It’s impossible to hit fire grab in an actual match?
No, it’s impossible to get all the damage modifiers at the same time without dying in your glassy glass spec because glass eles are free kills for thieves and others.
Ele can still hit like a truck while wielding Barbarian amulet which gives 20k hp. I hit 13k Fire Grab on a warri with Barbarian amulet on. With might stacking you can get around 2,5k power as well and 75% crit chance with fury, around 50% crit dmg with Arcane trait.
Please show me a screenshot where an ele can hit 13k fire grabs inside pvp.
Also make sure your opponent has no armor on and 25 stacks of vulnerability, that way you might actually reach it.
This is without my bloodlust stacks which give 250 extra power. I can normally stack up to 15-20 might by myself.
I can get you screens of doing it on moving targets as well but it will increase the chance of my enemies having vulnerability/myself having might/banner buffs from others.
Target golem has 2180 armor which is more than many PvP players run.
Conquest needs coordination to be played succesfully. In LoL you can effectively write an play ( in solo q) , gw2 is too fast paced so you NEED voice-chat in order to play in the proper way.
Solo q basically makes no sense in this game, reason why you’ll find team q pros being able to dominate in solo q while the opposite is kinda rare.
I would have somewhat agreed with this statement as well, that is until ANet introduced map icons for both friendlies and engaged enemies. Now it takes literary 1 second to look at the map and figure out at least 70% of what’s going on. But people are still trying to play the hero part for some reason..
It doesn’t really matter.
Player icons won’t teach you positioning and map awareness, won’t teach you to not stay braindead afk in mid as a bunker guard while your team is demolished on sidenodes, won’t teach you to decap far/close as a teef while your team is keeping mid in teamfight, won’t teach necros to stay on edges where teefs can’t reach them with dem teleports etc etc.
Conquest mode is too hard, even in top 100 solo q, i can assure you.
And for sure won’t teach you not to keep going far if you already lost 1v1 with their side defender like 5 times before just because “I’m da best and i’ll kill ya next time!!1!1 Noob insert class here1!!1!”…or when to rez and when not (glass cannons trying to res other glass cannons sitting into aoes with obvious results, guardians being ganked while ressing thieves and so on…) let alone trying to set up basic tactics like “I go mid alone with guardian to hold it alap, 1 close and rest cross far then defend far and i’ll go close at respawn” ending up with 2 ppl capping close, another one at boss and one obviously dead at far while still 1v3 at mid with guardian. And that’s when you realize that, as i said, there’s no point on tryhard…all is vain, go for fun and kitten the rest…1-4 or just go wherever the kitten you want, i don’t care anymore…
Yesterday I wrote “1 home 4 mid” before foefire in soloq began. I was the only one on mid, 4 people were standing at home until it was captured. Of course by then all was vain.
As bad as ele is in pvp right now, I can’t play other classes more than 1 or 2 hours at a time because they are get so boring so fast because they all are easymode (besides engineer) and just don’t have the combat flow that D/D ele has.
Conditions. They are the bane of elementalists. I can’t tell you the last time I lost a direct damage duel. But the time I lost a condition damage duel was recent. We have enough clears, but we virtually have to devote ourselves to clearing conditions.
I literally have 30 points invested just so I don’t have to worry as much about hybrid condi builds. And against bomb engineers, why even try as a d/d ele?
ether renewal? .. no? … “DEY RUPT MER ETHER.”
Oh, I use rock solid, just saying.
Ether Renewal is good for condition clearing but not for healing. Even if you have stability opponents simply burst you while channeling because they know you can’t dodge. Meaning ether renewal heals for pretty much nothing in those 3,5 seconds.
If you cannot damage an Elementalist 1k – 2k damage, you deserve to lose.
Please note, if the Elementalist goes 30 in Earth to get this, they sacrifice all damage, healing power and/or evasive arcana.
This.
As an Elementalist, trust me, it doesn’t take long for this immunity to ware down. After the first few attacks most Elementalists will be below threshold and susceptible to conditions again. As Otaur said above, if you can’t do 1k – 2k damage, chances are you won’t be winning anyway.
Dealing that much damage isn’t difficult, even in a condition build. Keeping them from healing it all back as fast or faster than you can deal it is, especially since they can’t be poisoned for that healing debuff.
If that ele has enough heals and +healing power to quickly heal to over 90% again then he won’t do any damage, especially because he already wasted 30 traits in earth. And if he didn’t spec for healing besides diamond skin he won’t do any noteworthy damage either and won’t be able to heal up quickly after falling below the threshold.
