Guild Wars 2

lunabaguna.8293:

Hunterfox, yes, that is what is happening, GW2 is an extension of the lessons learned in GW1 and is also incorporating ideas from other games to make it new. What is upsetting is that anything that changes the game in any way immediately gets called out as “anti-GW” or “a WoW clone” or some other such nonsense.

You mean GW2 sold 2 million copies in the first couple of months after game open vs. GW1s 6.5 million sold over seven years?

Philosophy kept GW1 up and will keep GW2 running.

Hmmm our land is Tyria, but what’s the actual name of or planet?

Dun-Dun-Dun-dum-da-dun-dum-da-dun…

lunabaguna.8293:

Please for the love of Grenth, stop trying to turn this game into GW1. I understand that you all loved the game, I get it, but guess what? It still exists. If you want to play GW1, go play it. GW2 is its own game, it will have differences. You may not like or appreciate those differences and you are free to make that known, but please stop saying “because GW1 was this way, GW2 needs to be too.” They are two different games, and GW2 does not have the same design philosophy as GW1. This is a GOOD thing, it makes the game unique and worth playing for what it is.

You are correct yet incorrect.
The main deviation from GW1 is
-GW2 Lost the Trinity of GW1
-GW2 is Action based
-GW2 is Dynamic and persistent
The Same philosophy is that both are:
-Free to Play
-Level and gear plateau
-Complete and balanced sPvP, separate from PvE
-Anti-Grind

What makes GW2 fun is the Anet philosophy that enveloped both GW1 and GW2. What makes GW2 more a challenge is the difference in how the game is played.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-pregressive-question-of-why/first#post827944

yurtshone.7325:

It makes perfect sense.
Well written Leonard.
I truly doubt ArenaNet will take what you have said to heart though. Not by reading the latest blog post from them anyway.

Thanks! I am hoping that all the fumers, including myself, will now turn destructive flames into fire that forges the strength of steel; a better experience from Guild Wars 2. Maybe Anet, will not care… but at least we can offer up our concerns, because this was the reason the forums was created. And of course I believe that the concerns here, as with others from the latest patch, are more than just a simple… ‘Oh man Anet you stink!’ Too many complaints about how Anet has deviated from the model that people bought the game under.

Mackdose.6504:

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

I’m sorry but too untrue for my taste. Many members are fuming in the forums over such changes. No matter how small the +stat, or gated community, it seems many players feel that this becoming a grind/treadmill. This is not an issue of one person jumps and everyone jumps. This is an issue of a mass agreeing on the relativity of the term ‘grind’, esp. in concern with Guild Wars 2 and Anet.

GW1 had a grind called Obsidian Armor. GW2 already has a grind called Legendary Weapons. The Legendary system in this game has failed in comparison to what it could have been. Ascended gear is doing the same.

Face.7032:

I don’t want to make fun of a non native English speaker but this post makes NO sense.

Please be more specific, I know I have a habit of writing on how I think, scattered and all over the place. This is why I have to revise so many times.

When I first played Guild Wars 2, I steamrolled to level 80 as fast as I could. I enjoyed the content I encountered up to level 80 and beyond. When I reached Orr and fought my way all the way to the gates of Arah and it was an Epic battle; I was a Hero.

Now I explore a lot of dungeons because I want to complete many sets of armor and to master each dungeon. I want to finish the jump puzzles and find all the mini-dungeons; still a lot of work to be done. In essence I enjoyed the manifesto, the philosophy of Anets Guild War series. I enjoyed the changes that prompted Devs to state that Guild Wars2 is not Guild Wars, yet maintaining Anet philosophy.

When I thought of a Legendary, I told myself, “I will get it when its time.” But to my dismay and a month after release, the Devs talk about players that have, or who are about to, obtain legendary weapons. I researched the requirements to get one and after one month I was no where near this Legendary. I shrugged off the idea of a legendary until a few weeks ago. I looked over my materials and gold stash and told myself, “within reasonable time and more effort, I can obtain this item.” That effort turned into pure grind! How is it that the game I loved that that brought me dynamic events, echoes of scouring the world, and mastering my skill had only brought me grief with grinding as a reasonable option? Why is such an awesome feat of Tyria master not even truly implemented into the dynamics of the game?

Now the bombshell! But before the bombs exploded, I received a taste of what I wanted. A more dynamic dungeon called Fractals. The dungeon is very fun, well though, and in the right direction. But then the bombs exploded and I get wift of +stat gear, thus now I enter the forums to explore the gripes and find out what is happening. I first think to myself, ‘If I can’t effectively run the highest level of Fractals in exotic gear from a level 80 dungeon, then how can I justify the Manifesto of effectively running a level 80 dungeon with exotic gear of a level 35 dungeon?’ Why do I feel funneled into a gated community known as Factual? Factual, the only option to obtain unjust gear. Factual is no longer fun, the bombs have maimed me.

The Whys of Why. I hope that this acts more as an insintive element vs. a grind element. I welcome all construction feedback, comments, questions, and/or concerns from the player comunity. And I hope that I have hit the mark, or close to the mark of a more fun, casual, yet progressive idea.

For the Sake of not repeating multiple words, I will consider all Legendary, Ascended, or any gear/items akin to this group as Zeus.

Zeus can be more than just one thing…

-Why does Zues gear require 250 of a specific Tier 6 material?

-Why not have Zeus gear require lower, more than one, and poprotional amounts of Tier 6 materials?

-Would this not help cut down on the grind of materials that can only be obtained in certian areas?

Zeus has a story too…

-Why not have Zeus gear as part of a mini storyline?

-Why not indulge the character into the history and lore of such items?

-How can a Zeus item be so magnificant if there is not story behind such item?

It’s an event, not a grind!

-Why not intergrate Zeus gear into the dynamic events setup?

-Why not give another option to obtain ectoplam, such as group event boss fights?

-Why not have a myserious Zeus Force that wonders around Tyria infesting event bosses prompting those interested to deafeat such force?

-Why not have have events dedicated around Tyria dedicated to the Zeus Force?

-Can you guys make such events random throughout a 24 hour period so that all have a chance?

I have Earned mine. Have you?

-Why not intergrate Zeus gear into player achievements?

-Are mystic coins considered achivements? If so, then why are those achivements allowed to be sold?

-Why not have the character earn certian ‘rights of passage’ around Tyria?

No matter how dangerous, real Heros explore the depths!

-Why not compel players to explore the dungeons of Tyria to find the Essence of Zues?

-Why not have Heros seek out multiple dungeons to obtain tokens, achivements, and dungeon specfic drops?

-Why do some Zues items require only one type of dungeon drop?

~Moderator, can you please delete my other post of Why, Why, Why? I can’t seems to access it normally from the forum menus. Thanks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-Why-Why/page/2#post827298

I want to make a following statement. First, I believe the new content of the dungeon is fantastic, along with a more random experience each dungeon run. I’m not here to say that the new dungeon and it’s ‘fun’ level is nonexistent.

Many players have fumed in the past over the way Legendary Weapons was presented in Guild Wars 2. Anets ideal fix to bridge the gap of Exotic to Legendary has caused an uproar in the GW2 Forums. Some still believe that the Legendary system is broken, and that another system that is against Anet’s manifesto is not the fix, no matter how small the alleged infraction.

Bold text is quotes from the two sources from Anet.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/my-legend-grows-forging-your-first-legendary-weapon/

-Manifesto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

“Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.”

Real game mechanics: A person with around 1,000 achievement points can have a legendary while a player with 10,000 points might not have one. So how is this fair to the “You’ll travel all over…”?

Barely a month into the game Anet states: “You’ll begin to see some ambitious players wielding Legendary Weapons in game very soon.”

Is this the ambitious players who explored all of Tyria? Or the ambition to grind Orr and/or play the Black Lion Trading post? Or is the ambitious group effort with the sole purpose to have a person yield a Legendary Weapon? Anet, if so, why were you so excited about players getting Legendary Weapons only after a month into the game?

About Ascended gear-
“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

Then why not introduce a system that compels players to truly explore and experience Tyria? Why does Ascended gear have to be Pink text gear instead of Orange exotic ‘Ascended Armor of (Name)’? Why can’t ascended gear be gained from doing certain dynamic events around Tyria and obtaining tokens from all dungeons? Why is it that a person with Ascended gear will only need 1,500 achievement points instead of an exenterated 15,000? Why is Ascended gear following the same failed principle of Legendary Weapons?

To piggy back off the idea that Ascended gear should be Orange Exotic instead of Pink; if Anet wanted to implement gated communities, then why not just simple add another accessory slot to the player explicitly only for gated content?

“They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

AcidicVision.5498:

Yes. I definitely am. I was around pre-launch. I know people that hunted for Legendaries and I watched the people that kept threads about their progress up Guru.

Those people that got their Legendary within a month picked that as a goal. They wanted to be “world first” to have an item. But something you are not considering is that those people didn’t do it alone. They had groups of friends or guild-mates playing with them non-stop to meet that goal. There was one guild created specifically for that purpose and everything each member did was revolved around making progress towards a legendary.

One group would rush the player around for world completion, two others would focus on the crafts needed for the gifts, a few others would farm items to promote up to gold to try to forge pre-cursors or to salvage for ecto. Do you see how that can exponentially speed up the process? If there are 12 people dedicated to helping create a legendary in a month, then 12 months of play time went in to crafting it.

“…and the rest of the game is a boring grind to get to the fun stuff”
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to the player feel like a hero.”

JemL.3501:

i didnt know legendary has more stats than exotic now…the reason i never farmed that stuff was exactly that…same stats, i supose i will start farming the bifrost.

Maybe more ideas on event/achievement based Legendary/Ascended gear?

Zoul.1087

The Halloween content was amazing. I give credit for that. It was FUN, and added more fun. The rewards weren’t as great but I still enjoyed the whole process. The scavenger hunt was one of the best quests in any game I ever played.

“You’ll begin to see some ambitious players wielding Legendary Weapons in game very soon.”

Leonard.2867:

All the people I see with a Legendary use to hang out at the Orr farm spots….

I can’t view this thread to revise my last post….

The Whys of Why, Why, Why. I hope that this acts more as an insintive element vs. a grind element. I welcome all construction feedback, comments, questions, and/or concerns from the player comunity. And I hope that I have hit the mark, or close to the mark of a more fun, casual, yet progressive idea.

For the Sake of no repeating multiple words, I will consider all Legendary, Ascended, or any gear/items akin to this group as Zeus.

Zeus can be more than just one thing…

*Why does Zues gear require 250 of a specific Tier 6 material?

*Why not have Zeus gear require lower, more than one, and poprotional amounts of Tier 6 materials?

*Would this not help cut down on the grind of materials that can only be obtained in certian areas?

Zeus has a story too…

*Why not have Zeus gear as part of a mini storyline?

*Why not indulge the character into the history and lore of such items?

*How can a Zeus item be so magnificant if there is not story behind such item?

It’s an event, not a grind!

*Why not intergrate Zeus gear into the dynamic events setup?

*Why not give another option to obtain ectoplam, such as group event boss fights?

*Why not have a myserious Zeus Force that wonders around Tyria infesting event bosses prompting those interested to deafeat such force?

*Why not have have events dedicated around Tyria dedicated to the Zeus Force?

*Can you guys make such events random throughout a 24 hour period so that all have a chance?

I have Earned mine. Have you?

*Why not intergrate Zeus gear into player achivements?

*Are mystic coins considered achivements? If so, then why are those achivements allowed to be sold?

*Why not have the character earn certian ‘rights of passage’ around Tyria?

No matter how dangerous, real Heros explore the depths!

*Why not compel players to explore the dungeons of Tyria to find the Essence of Zues?

*Why not have Heros seek out multiple dungeons to obtain tokens, achivements, and dungeon specfic drops?

*Why do some Zues items require only one type of dungeon drop?

@Azjenco.9425 I agree with your post, and after I revise my last post again, I plan to start implementing suggestions. And update the original post accordingly.

When I first played Guild Wars 2, I steamrolled to level 80 as fast as I could. I enjoyed the content I encountered up to level 80 and beyond. When I reached Orr and fought my way all the way to the gates of Arah, it was an Epic battle; I was a Hero.

Now I do a lot of dungeons because I want to complete many sets of armor and I want to master each dungeon. I want to finish the jump puzzles and find all the mini-dungeons, still a lot of work to be done. In essence I enjoyed the manifesto, the philosophy of Anets Guild War series. I enjoyed the changes that prompted Devs to state that Guild Wars2 is not Guild Wars, yet maintaining that Anet philosophy.

When I thought of a Legendary, I said I will get it when its time. But to my dismay and a month after release, the Devs talk about players that have, or about to, obtain legendary weapons. I researched the requirements to get one and after one month I was no where near this Legendary. I shrugged off the idea of a legendary until a few weeks ago. I looked over my materials and stash and told myself, “within reasonable time and more effort, I can obtain this item.” That effort turned into pure grind! How is it that the game I loved that that brought me dynamic events, echoes of scouring the world, and mastering my skill, only brought me grief with grinding as a reasonable option? Why is such an awesome feat of Tyria master not even truly implemented into the dynamics of the game?

Now the bombshell! But before the bombs exploded, I received a taste of what I wanted. A more dynamic dungeon called Fractals. The dungeon is very fun, well though, and in the right direction. But then the bombs exploded. I get wift of +stat gear; thus, now I enter the forums, explore the gripes, and find out what is happening. I first think to myself: If I can’t effectively run the highest level of Fractals in exotic gear from a level 80 dungeon, then how can I justify the Manifesto of effectively running a level 80 dungeon with exotic gear of a level 35 dungeon? Why do I feel funneled into a gated community known as Factual? Factual, the only option to obtain unjust gear. Factual is no longer fun, the bombs have maimed me.

Karizee.8076:

You do realize that agony doesn’t even kick in until lvl 10, correct? Ascended gear has nothing to do with this.

Then why is infusion slots implemented into the Ascended gear? Thus the only way to survive better in the new dungeon is to obtain Ascended gear. Why did Anet not make a separate accessory slot for infusion on the character sheet that is completely separate from all gear?

AcidicVision.5498:

Leonard.2867:

So are you saying that people are funneled into two locations in efforts to feasibly obtain Ascended gear?

Partially. You need essence to craft the back-slots. Those are in FotM. To get the ring you get past level 10, and while doing that you are getting a steady stream of golds and tokens. You need the tokens to buy the infusion from the dungeon merchant.

So right now most of the stuff you need for Ascended gear is in that content.

As far as the fine mats go, that depends. You can get them from anywhere. If you are looking for the blood in-particular, that just happens to be the mat that Karka drop. I think they might drop fangs also but could be mistaken.

Im not sure why you think that is worth pointing out though. They were pretty clear when saying that those areas were where this stuff is initially going to be but soon they will add in other methods, including systems to get all of it in WvW.

Still no conspiracy or cash-shop shenanigans.

No, I don’t believe in the conspiracy.

Why I point it out actually became more clear to me after you pointed to WvW. Assuming three servers are equally matched, then the WvW content is considered more constant, it feels real, and I feel like a hero in the environment. In PvE it feels, Now I have my FOTM mats, I need to go to said location to get my Tier 6 material. In WvW I go to said location to be a hero, and when a good system is implemented, I get said materials.

I point out that PvE feels more like a grind and not a progression.

I just have a conversation on the Ventrilo with a GW2 friend. To sum up:

We both agree that the content of the new dungeon is fun and enjoyable. I even remember talking on Vent about how I would love to see an MMO implement a dynamic dungeon. Good job Anet.

However, I want to piggy back off the idea that Ascended gear should be Orange Exotic instead of Pink; if Anet wanted to implement gated communities, then why not just simple add another accessory slot to the player explicitly only for gated content?

AcidicVision.5498:

This is nuts. Have you played in Fractals at all yet? There is a high probability of getting golds from the chests at the end of each fractal. And a higher chance for mobs to drop golds than usual. Use a magic find set and your inventory will be half full of gold items after just a few runs.

Those salvage into ectos. I have quadrupled the number of ectos in my bank by just casually leveling up in the dungeon, while still saving a few like type weapons to try to forge for a precursor (by the by, med armor, accessories, tridents and staffs seem to be the frequent rare drops. I haven’t seen a gold bow or sword yet). The other craft materials you need have an increased drop rate in Lost Shores and in the higher levels of FotM.

There is no cash-shop conspiracy here (and I like a good one, like the Crystin Cox/Nexon frenzy we had yesterday). Just play the game, especially the new stuff, and what you need will start flowing in to your bags. Remember, it’s an MMO. The stuff isn’t supposed to take a day. But getting the mats for Ascended is much more reasonable and goes much faster than say…cultural armor, legendaries, or some of the other freaky mystic forge weapons out there.

So are you saying that people are funneled into two locations in efforts to feasibly obtain Ascended gear?

Also add me, lvl 80 guardian. Forewarned, I’m a RAGER rawr, but only when I fail.

@Zoul.1087

Permission to add components of this to my thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-Why-Why/first#post825210

Snowy.9580:

The vid left out the part about doing World Events to get 10 free precursors @ level 70?
/sadface

Say what? Talking about the one time world event? That event was a good intention by Anet to where they issued a survey about. This post is not about the one time event.

JemL.3501:

i didnt know legendary has more stats than exotic now…the reason i never farmed that stuff was exactly that…same stats, i supose i will start farming the bifrost.

It’s not yet implemented but will be.

Guess ill add this to Original Post as well.

Astralporing.1957:

AcidicVision.5498:

I addressed this in my first post here. Not all gaps have to do with weapon power. There was a LARGE gap of time, with zero character progression, between getting your exotic set and acquiring a legendary. That was the gap that was filled by adding an intermediate tier of gear.

Obtaining ascended eq does not in any way shorten your way to legendary – in fact, if you decide to get ascended set before going for legendary, then the gap between exotic and legendary has actually been significantly increased.

I agree with this post as well. But overall it is still less grind to obtain Ascended gear vs. a Legendary; thus, the Legendary progression has lengthened. The progression from Exotic to Ascended is a stat-mill (treadmill), while Ascended to Legendary is a Cometa-Mill.

Another question: What will happen to all the exotic weapons that are created via the forge, yet take almost equal amounts of time and effort as legendary weapons?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stop-making-Topics-About-the-New-Dungeon

I think I rest my case!

Eveningstar.6940:

Counting forum posts/unique and comparing that total to the player population isn’t really a statistically viable or useful way to measure player discontent. Not only is the ratio inaccurate at best, but you’re ignoring a crucial point: the forums are a subcommunity of the game. It’s impossible to know how many players join the forum for the first time in order to voice their discontent, but it is fair to say that there’s a reasonable core of forum readers who drop by at least regularly enough to have some vested interest in the forum.

Therefore the question isn’t “How many people in the forum are complaining about this change, vs. how many people are actually playing the game?” The question is: How reliable a bellwether is the forum for predicting player attitudes?

Probably not terribly reliable, but also not insignificant. If an issue is fiercely contested on the forums over many, many days of angry debate, then chances are, it’s a matter of at least some concern to a significant portion of the playerbase.

Then the question becomes: What constitutes “significant?” In this case I think arguing that ‘significant’ necessitates ‘majority’ is specious reasoning. Even if 1 out of 20 players is upset enough at this change to discourage them from spending quite as much money on the Black Lion store, or discourage them from logging in as often, then that is a significant repercussion, the effects of which will probably be noticed by ANet’s internal logistics.

When City of Heroes implemented “Enhancement Diversification,” the forum exploded with outrage. Some players left—not nearly enough to constitute a majority, but a significant enough portion to cause a noticeable dent in activity. Developers talked about this phenomenon (BackAlleyBrawler in particular) years later.

“Counting forum posts/unique and comparing that total to the player population isn’t really a statistically viable or useful way to measure player discontent.”

&

""How many people in the forum are complaining about this change, vs. how many people are actually playing the game?"

vs.

“If an issue is fiercely contested on the forums over many, many days of angry debate, then chances are, it’s a matter of at least some concern to a significant portion of the playerbase”

Say what? What exactly are you trying to say here?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well it would be the path of least resistance normally, but now? Mmmm, no. Too many people deciding not to buy Gems. Black Lion isn’t the path of least resistance if you’re boycotting it. The next method is . . . not recommended for anyone.

Me? I’ve been collecting data and trying to figure out where to go get my T6 materials (or T5 materials) when I decide to take the plunge. I have a few options, though I’ll need to make a conscious effort to not overstay my welcome in the spot.

GW2 Wiki knows all matters GW2 and Google trumps Wiki.

Ash.2175:

I don’t think we’re supposed to acquire this gear in a day (or even a week). If you don’t have as much time to play per day that just means it’ll take you more days to get the gear. This in no way means you have to go buy gems. They said they’re not releasing new gear every 3 months, and either way do you think it will even take you a full 3 months to get the gear? Why is it such a bad thing that better gear takes time to get? I know some people enjoyed the ease of acquiring max level gear in guild wars 1, but I personally have been enjoying the time I spend working towards my gear.

Why is it a band thing that better gear takes time? Maybe wrong Question… Why is it that better gear is +stats.

Want to avoid gear grinding…. start making mystic coins soul-bound… psh.

tkalamba.2541:

Leonard.2867:

tkalamba.2541:

Leonard.2867:

tkalamba.2541:

Andy.3950:

tkalamba.2541:

jamasont.4653:

Loosifah.4739:

Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.

Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…

Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.

Got any stats to back that up?

No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)

Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.

Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.

Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.

They are unique views. If you have trouble believing that then create a post and keep viewing it until you figure it out.

And for a thread with only 32 post, over 1000 views is massive. To debunk me is to debunk yourself which fails to debunk me (WoWzerz BoWzer, Leonard.2867 just tried to act all intelligent and stuff. psh!) Still does not negate the idea of, the viewers are the player base who do not post yet read the negative post about the direction of the game.

I’m not trying to debunk, I’m just asking questions, as i have not actually paid attention to post counts and don’t bother creating my own threads. Hence why I asked.

I fully agree however, that anyone who bothers coming to these forums are seeing nothing but negativity, but thats the case with every change ever made to an online game.

I also feel, we need to do a better job of stopping the negativity and write more constructive criticisms.

You know the only time I felt discerned about reading the forums is when the game first game out and people cried about the dungeons. I was a crier then, just not a poster. But I picked up my tears and learned to play the new Anet GW2 style that is different from GW1. Now I enjoy the game; running around playing all the Anet PvE content. Then the Apocalyptic patch came, and the LFM FOTM LvL 1000 invaded LA and defeated the Lions Guard. Now I am spending more time joining the masses of the minority in fuming against Anet’s philosophy change.

Maybe your not asking the wrong questions…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-Why-Why/first#post824564

grumbles.5412:

Why can’t PvE be about having fun and enjoying content for the sake of enjoying content? Why do we have to grind?

Can I grind fun?

When Lady Bird meets Papa Bird and Papa builds a nest…. then yes you can grind for fun.

TerminalMontage.5693:

Iruwen.3164:

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

They really said that? What did they mean by jump? Because the jump between exotic and Legendary is ginormous, if they mean obtaining it.

AcidicVision.5498:

mcarswell.3768:

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

this bothers me a lot, because there was NO jump in stats between exotic and legendary before they added Ascended and bumped up the Legendary stats.

I addressed this in my first post here. Not all gaps have to do with weapon power. There was a LARGE gap of time, with zero character progression, between getting your exotic set and acquiring a legendary. That was the gap that was filled by adding an intermediate tier of gear.

tkalamba.2541:

Leonard.2867:

tkalamba.2541:

Andy.3950:

tkalamba.2541:

jamasont.4653:

Loosifah.4739:

Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.

Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…

Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.

Got any stats to back that up?

No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)

Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.

Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.

Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.

They are unique views. If you have trouble believing that then create a post and keep viewing it until you figure it out.

And for a thread with only 32 post, over 1000 views is massive. To debunk me is to debunk yourself which fails to debunk me (WoWzerz BoWzer, Leonard.2867 just tried to act all intelligent and stuff. psh!) Still does not negate the idea of, the viewers are the player base who do not post yet read the negative post about the direction of the game.

tkalamba.2541:

Andy.3950:

tkalamba.2541:

jamasont.4653:

Loosifah.4739:

Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.

Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…

Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.

Got any stats to back that up?

No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)

Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do know is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.

GreenSage.3256:

Dude the game is what it is. This patch has come and gone and while I agree with a lot of the theory on gear treadmills and gear checks, I see none of the adverse effects rippling through Tyria. Maybe they will and I’ll admit I’m wrong then, but for right now, I’m just not seeing it.

In fact, something strange happens to me when I log in. I go to my characters, do things for them and run some dungeons and do som WvW and I have fun!! I

I know its weird because according the theory the game should be a pile of kitten like D3.

Look, I got freaked out too by the new changes because I thought “It’s D3 all over game, the game seems really fun until you pull back the curtain of Oz and you realize you are just in a massive grind with no content.”

And I waited for the shoe to drop…waited…..waited…. still seems pretty awesome.

Like I said, I will change my tune if kittentarts to suck but right now it doesn’t (for me).

ANet seems pretty set in their ways on a lot of this, I would consider not playing anymore if you really don’t like the game that much.

So you agree with me but tell me to suck it up or quit the game? Maybe I already knew of those options and maybe I wanted to join the rest of the community in hopes that Anet would not forsake the original philosophy, and that they would fix what is already broken. Maybe I knew my options before I purchased GW2; GW2 vs. WoW. I choose what I wanted and UPS has failed to deliver.

I’m sorry sir, but I don’t think your ‘suck it up’ comments really do justice in this thread.

Mimizu.7340:

“Why, Why, Why?”

Delilah?

Ha… not quite. I guess the title revolves around the idea of: Why is Anet trying to fix a problem by implementing the same tools that caused the problem? And does Anet plan to continue in this direction despite what, at least on the GW2s, the majority does not want. I don’t know it all, but what I do know is how I feel, my GW2 friends feel, and a raging forum community feels.

Raf.1078:

I think ANet, being mostly working adults, vastly underestimated the gaming habits of a certain vocal market segment. Its looking like what they thought of as long drawn out quest line is taking far less time than anticipated.

But do you make games only to suit that market segment or do you make games to suit as large a market as you can? Looks like they went with the latter to me…even if unknowingly.

I agree with you. If this is an unanticipated case, then why add another system of grind to bridge the gap? Why not just trash legendary weapons and/or add another system… I don’t know, maybe ‘Godly Weapons’ with a more time/achievement base release for acquire?

AcidicVision.5498:

Leonard.2867:

“They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

I could argue that the game is called Guild Wars. And if you managed to organize a guild that performed cohesively towards a single purpose to help you gain some level of prestige, on top of all other things required…then yes, you are a true master of Guild Wars.

:D

I do agree with you because I define Guild in some post. However, it still does not debunk the context of my original post about the real intent of a legendary and the bad attempt to bridge the gap between legendary and Exotic.

AcidicVision.5498:

Leonard.2867:

I agree with you 100% Heck I agree with you much that I will edit your statement into my original post to help support my claim.

Fair enough, and then you might want to edit out anywhere you had made assumptions of obtaining them through Orr grinding and Trading post manipulation. Because that’s not how those were earned. Those early Legendaries were collaborative efforts.

Also…

Leonard.2867:

And if anybody can justify to me that they obtained their Legendary without unnecessary grind on a failed model, then ill shut my mouth.

I did that. Team-work and people taking on different parts of the process eliminated unnecessary and excessive grinding of one thing by one person. It’s all well documented on Guru. One guy even has a day to day diary of everything accomplished. So I guess /thread. Good talk.

“They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.” So after one month of team grind… you are a true master? Does this mean that because GW2 likes the idea of grind as the model for masters of Guild Wars 2?

And now the direction with Ascended gear… A failed system to bridge the gap of another failed system?

Will do, except the trade post manipulations. That has already been established. Also while I edit, can you tell me how one person still managed to obtain the round-about number of 1 million Karma in a months time? Which by my calculation is 250/hrs (with 50% karma booster) of straight Karma farm; roughly 10 days.

AcidicVision.5498:

Leonard.2867:

Are you saying that a Legendary is not easy to obtain, despite an Anet posting barely a month after launch, discussing that people might already have them?

Yes. I definitely am. I was around pre-launch. I know people that hunted for Legendaries and I watched the people that kept threads about their progress up Guru.

Those people that got their Legendary within a month picked that as a goal. They wanted to be “world first” to have an item. But something you are not considering is that those people didn’t do it alone. They had groups of friends or guild-mates playing with them non-stop to meet that goal. There was one guild created specifically for that purpose and everything each member did was revolved around making progress towards a legendary.

One group would rush the player around for world completion, two others would focus on the crafts needed for the gifts, a few others would farm items to promote up to gold to try to forge pre-cursors or to salvage for ecto. Do you see how that can exponentially speed up the process? If there are 12 people dedicated to helping create a legendary in a month, then 12 months of play time went in to crafting it.

I agree with you 100% Heck I agree with you much that I will edit your statement into my original post to help support my claim.

Amins.3710:

I’m not entirely sure when people will learn that the Min/Max of the trinity day’s doesn’t work quite as well w/ Anet’s concept.

Personally, if you don’t have 2800 attack, 2500 armor, 15k hp, 25% crit, 60% crit dmg, and 650+healing, you’re kittening yourself somewhere.

The only time i would say different is when you are actually setting up a tank build for dungeons: 3200 Armor, 17k Hp, 1000+healing.

Take out your 2nd sentence and your a fool. Personally, I think your build is personally foolish! WoWzer BoWzer, I don’t meant to insult… but to proclaim what you personally think in the sense its better than what other has posted in this thread; foolish.

Kana.6793:

Lamont.5973:

I did not play GW2 until just after Factions came out but, as I recall, it was quite some time before everyone began congregation in a single place for a single activity. Everywhere you went you could find people grouping for missions or farming amber/jade for the high end gear.

Now in only 3 months GW2 has essentially limited the bulk of players to LA as they spam lfm fractals lvl (x).

There is now a gear grind for two new skinned back items with better stats and two rings with better stats but that add nothing to the look of the character.

It seems the exact opposite of exploring the world and grinding from looks rather than stats upon which this game was supposed to be built.

Cheaper to develop in the short term, yes. Better for the game, and, ultimately, for profit in the long run? I highly doubt it.

Do bear in mind that not everyone doing the fractals just is grinding them for stats etc. My guild spent a lot of time doing them on the weekend because we really enjoyed them and we had a lot of fun on mumble while doing them.

I agree, they are enjoyable, that’s what Anet should be about; the player experience. If the content is enjoyable then why introduce Pink Gear instead of Orange Gear?

AcidicVision.5498:

Was it mentioned anywhere that the gap between exotic and legendary was a statistical one? I thought it was a gap in time. You could very easily get a full set of exotics, but then had months to well over a year of playing before you would see a legendary; referring to normal playing habits specifically. Not grinding for the purpose of the legendary. Just doing dailies, monthlies, dungeon runs when you have the time, some WvW here and there, leveling alts and salvaging/harvesting as you go would get you a majority of the things you need or the resources to get them.

Assuming they make legendary components easier to acquire then you characters path changed from:

Masterwork->Rare->Exotic->…months and months and possible expansions later->Legendary.

to:

Masterwork->Rare->Exotic->Ascended->ascended content leading to legendary mats->Legendary.

All that has changed is that in the huge chunk of time between Exotic and Legendary, you will now spend getting Ascended so you get a feeling of progress and growth for your character. And having the Ascended may speed up getting the Legendary.

In the end, around the same amount of time has been spent. They just added something to do in that void in between.

So you agree, that Anet claiming people having a Legendary weapon barley a month into the game is not a complete grind and/or TP fest?

Your also saying that spending and not saving Ectos and Teir 6 materials brings me closer to my Legendary? Your saying that that FOTM, which gives little experience and no Karma, bridged that gap?

Are you saying that a Legendary is not easy to obtain, despite an Anet posting barely a month after launch, discussing that people might already have them?

LaughingLoser.9806:

Have you seenall the maps to FotM yet, or are you just judging based on principle? It is actually quite a fun instance that isn’t static, so when you go in, you aren’t doing the exact same 3 paths over and over again. As for the progression, you don’t really need ascended for anything but higher levels of FotM, and if you aren’t interested in the lower levels, then I’m sure higher levels are a moot point. As for the powerful blood, yes, they are rare, but not required to make ascended back pieces. Even if they were, I’ve gotten 15 of them from the instance itself through 6 levels of play.

Lastly, Orr farming and traveling the world. As posted you do have to travel the world to get 100% completion, but you’re right, most people spend much of their time in orr afterward. Honestly though, it’s just the same as anywhere. I can travel the world but I spend most of my time at home because it is most profitable (job, cheaper cost of living, etc.) Just because I spend most of my time at home does not mean I’ve not experienced everywhere else I’ve traveled.

Your absolutely right about raveling the world and keeping the experience. But remember the concept of the post, the intended grind of selected areas to achieve ‘true’ end-game material.

Ynna.8769:

Kashien.6278:

For those of you that say healing power is a worthless stat, and not worth investing into. Unless you like your party to go down a lot, its nice to have a “dedicated support” in the party, and there is no denying this fact. A guardian is the perfect dedicated support, we can offer you stacks upon stacks of might, massive amounts of protection/regeneration, and a lot of healing as well via healing breeze(if you can aim it right) and virtue of resolve, Staff#4, Mace #2, and the third chain on mace #1.

Check it out, its in my signature.

(Not just responding to you)
Two things:
1) It’s not that healing power is bad, it’s that it’s worse than everything else, especially when it comes to scaling. This is even more true in sPvP, where you can’t create a build that’s most powerful when two or more allies are nearby. It reminds me of a often-had debate by Holy Priests in WoW. It wasn’t that extra critical chance was a bad stat, it was that every other stat did more for the spec. I feel healing power for Guardians is similar.
2) I don’t do dungeons myself, but I find it disturbing that you’d need a dedicated support-player. As much as I like the idea, it seems to go against what Arenanet wanted with the game.

Who said anything about a dedicated support-player? Even in my build, which I show you tube video on, you can see how active I am against the foe while giving healing support, boons, and stacks of might. Oh wait, no one continued to flame me after I posted that video. Maybe show the proof or don’t show at all comes to mind.

Chamone.6890:

I like you Leonard, you’re alright

The fact that precursors are going to change is one thing, the fact you have to grind your kitten off for ascended is quite another.

We really don’t understand the direction the game is taking right now, and the key people are staying mysteriously quiet about it.

Tell us what is going on Anet. Why have you thrown aside your cherished principles so quickly?

Thanks. I expect a lot of people to debate me, and I even expect some hard flaming. But I am bringing up valid points that will not die in the forums until Anet answers them, or the GW1/GW2 Pre-Apocalyptic patch based players leaves.

And if anybody can justify to me that they obtained their Legendary without unnecessary grind on a failed model, then ill shut my mouth. But I have my precursor, I have 2,300 some odd achievement points, 4 dungeon sets and many dungeon weapons. Prior to my precursor or the grind for it, I maybe only 5% of what it took to get a Legendary. After two straight weeks of over 6 hours a day of farming Orr, I was able to obtain my precursor. So with what I know and what I have achieved, any person who debates me on the subject better bring hard proof they did not grind the failed Legendary Model.

And this same Model is the progression to Ascension?

Kana.6793:

Leonard.2867:

Kana.6793:

You do travel all over Tyria for a legendary, it requires 100% world completion to get one.

Except that all of Tyria is a ghost land. And in concern with Legendary Weapons, How much time do you think a person spent in Orr vs. the rest of Tyria?

What difference does Tyria being a ghost land make? You still have to travel over it. That’s also a server issue, Gunnar’s Hold is by no means a ghost land.

As for time… I didn’t make a specific note of it but world completion did take quite some time. I’ve also spent a lot of time in WvW and dungeons gathering legendary components.

The only bad parts at the moment (with regard to legendary crafting) are the RNG bits. Flushing 500k karma and a large number of ecto’s down the mystic forge in the hopes of making 77 clovers is just horrible.

So I have 500 Badges for my gift yet only 14 WvW achievement points… is something not right? How did you gain all your Karma? Via WvW or PvE or a mix of both. If PvE then what location did you obtain most of your Karma? if WvW then how did you obtain enough gold and/or mats for your legendary in less than three months?

There is So many mini-dungeons I have not achieved yet. Why not places clues to Ascended/Legendary gear in these places?

Iruwen.3164:

Short and simple answer: they’re working on it, the new system just didn’t make it into the game with the last big update. At least if you’re refering to the precursor which requires a lot of gold or luck to get.

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

This is the answer? More material grinding? Spam in LA, LFG FOTM ‘insert desired level’? Why not travel around Tryia and achieve more dynamic events? One Ascended gear cost 250 Powerful bloods… only two places to effectively obtain them, Fostgorge and Orr. That’s not scouring Tyria!