Less Farmers=Less Food=Higher Cost
Higher DR+Watered Loot Table=Higher Cost
More Precursers+Ascended Gear=Higher Cost
Cash=Gems=Gold
And I agree, less bots is good.
My response to this type of post is here…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Haggling-Over-the-Price/first#post842250
I saw that, funny! glad the moderators weren’t knee-jerk about it
On the other hand, so many of the 10k posts on ascension have been panics about having to keep up to compete in wvw, or feeling forced to get the gear — for those concerns, the miniscule influence is relevant.
Its not the amount, its the principle.
This game is free too, give it a try. After 1 week, come back and tell me how much you hated it and its business model.
I typically try many different things. But if your looking for a particular play style, try the Guild Wars 2 Class forums.
The mechanical advantage of the increase in stats from ascended will be fairly small once aggregated with naked stats, traits, and slots for which ascended doesn’t exist (yet?).
The problem is that it’s going to have a big influence on the mindset of the in-game community. For a lot of people, gameplay is going to focus on acquiring that higher tier gear, even though the benefit is small. Likewise, it’s going to add a sense of elitism in grouping…if they’re even running other content at all. What this ends up doing is dividing the community.
It isn’t the mechanics of the change so much as it is the meta-game aspects that bother me. If I could find a server that had a community that largely eschewed ascended gear and maintained the attitude of running fractals “just for kicks,” I think the addition of the gear would become transparent.
Mindset is a big deal. Especially with a playerbase that really doesn’t understand how the stats figure in, and a game that lacks a DPS parser.
So some people react because they really just wanted something to work on, and this, no matter how trivial, is something to work on.
Other people react into panic mode about a gear treadmill without taking note of how very flat this treadmill is.
My hope in putting this thread up was to give a way that doesn’t rely on players doing algebra, and give some concrete information about how little the gear matters — in hopes of getting a more relaxed atmosphere about it in the community.
Um, in general treadmills are flat. Its not the treadmill itself, but the Gear part of the treadmill. If we look at it in the sense of +stats; the question we should ask is, why can’t people be satisfied with a visual treadmill? Esp. when +stats offer no true progression.
I wrote a thread about this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Vertical-vs-Horizontal-a-compromise/first#post839846
The Guardian in that video was running a DPS build with 13.7k in Health, and I assume with full traits in Valor. Valor adds toughness and Crit damage.
In my last 4 pug experiences with CoF:
First two Pugs- We stopped for a moment and we figured out how to best tackle the situation. First 2 attempts on first group failed but third attempt was successful. First attempt on 2nd pug was successful
Third Pug-Failed not matter what
Fourth Pug-Simply did not want to attempt it, So I told them, “I’m going to fight, join me if you wish.” They joined me and I only died twice. While we did not really kill that many, everybody in the group fought as hard as they could and we still succeeded; and did so with about the average deaths on doing it the ‘chicken’ way.
To all those out there that prefer the ‘Chicken Way’, thank you for the video Neito, here is my inspiration for doing it the… Not so chicken way…
http://www.youtube.com/v/O3szVor2tMU&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=1
Oh and let me quote the context of how the OP feels, esp. about your ‘Chicken Way’.
“My question is. Does everyone do this encounter that way? I mean really? Is this what gaming as evolved too just chain dying because it is the “fastest way”?”
@Fabsm.5897
Hostility was mostly talking about maneuvering around in the fight and falling back if need be. Your section on ‘Escape’ just reinforced his point. Did not know if you was trying to debunk him or not….
The point is, the entire perspective on “escaping” is wrong.
As i said, Guardians have to play aggressive and be the focal point of hate from their foes, while your mates do the DPS we lack.We can Maneuver as easily as other classes. Judge Intervention + Flashing Blade can reach even the fastest straggler. We can have 25s of Swiftness with Retreat, on a short CD. We even have an AoE interrupt/pull on GS. I don’t think we lack in maneuvers.
We lack in escape, because this won’t EVER be a viable option for a frontline charger as the Guardian. This is built in the class, you don’t escape, it is win or die for us, we are the last man standing (or falling) in the breach, even when we lose.
The point is, the entire perspective on “escaping” is wrong."
No his perspective on escaping is spot on. Escaping is, by defining itself… escaping, no perspective on it. Even you understand this; “We lack in escape…”
Next is context. His entire post was about not being able to escape. Then you address his context with your little statement about escaping, which only reinforced what he stated.
Now his opinion on the matter is that a Guardian should have better escape options instead of using the shout skill, ’I’m Left Behind!‘. In this context, his opinion is no less than yours vs. ’Stand Your Ground!’
There are two types of pugs:
1) Nobody really knows what they’re doing; failures usually ensue.
2) The group tries to go fast as possible while skipping whatever content possible.
In terms of CoF path 2 though, yes dying over and over is the best way to go about that spot. More and more enemies spawn and if the team wipes then the npc dies and you have to start over. The repair bill on going separately and dying is like a tax on doing path 2. You’re just either going to have to live with it or not do CoF path 2 anymore.
Or option 3: Convince the community that you can fight that spot like the Devs intended….
@Fabsm.5897
Hostility was mostly talking about maneuvering around in the fight and falling back if need be. Your section on ‘Escape’ just reinforced his point. Did not know if you was trying to debunk him or not….
@Hostility.4961
I agree with you completely about the Guardian having little in terms of escape and range and how you explained them. However, I disagree that those are ‘viable build options’, but rather class mechanics. In the context of the thread, build options are the… oh imma tank, imma healz, or I does dps.
I think the Guardian can fill any role the game has designed and that other classes cannot truly attempt. And I think the Guardian can do all roles very well. The mechanics you describe are not really builds, but rather additions to any build.
Now I will double back on myself with a contradiction and strike a compromise in that; not having such options as you describe can constrict a build, esp. in WvW and sPvP. The question is… playstyle and how the Guardian is perceived to play… they class that ‘Stands its Ground’.
(edited by Leonard.2867)
I’ve come to this conclusion as well. It appears the Guardian only shines in 4 specs.
Altruistic Healing/Hammer (A tanky build).
Spiritmaster Builds (DPS Spec)
Greatsword Builds (DPS/Hybrid)If Guardian’s 1h Sword and Scepter had some improvements, like combo fields, finishers, boons, or some kind of ‘other’ beneficial effect to yourself (or allies). Then, I could see the class having a lot more variety, and not being pigeonholed into a few specs.
Guardian’s need quite a bit of work. I’ve done everything, with every gear combination, and every spec. The class is just severely pigeonholed due to the traits.
For example, seals are a great mechanic. Why doesn’t Sword or Scepter apply seals or boons? The ranged Consecration-Trait for Consecration abilities from the virtue line is fantastic for support. But, you lack too much in other things in order to get it.
The guardian’s main issue is the Low base HP, Armor-Stat Combinations, Poor 1hand Weapon Variety, and the traits are spread too far apart to build solid builds of anything.
Played all those builds and then some.
Mace/Focus for Tank/Heal
Hammer/Staff for Heal/Support
Greatsword-Mace/Focus for Control+Tank/Heal
Sword for point DPS
I donno… should I go on? I found every build I made viable….
10 points in Zeal gives you Fiery Wrath plus 100 power, which is an easy +13% damage for relatively little investment. It’s actually one of the best adept-tier traits we have.
thats not true.
it is +13% damage IF the target is burning. People always say its so easy to keep your target burning as a guardian – thats just not true. a constant burn that utilizes the 10% is only applied by VoJ and purging flame – purging flame beeing the best option since it is pbaoe and burns all targets around you.
the 1second burn we apply every 5th hit does not cut it. especially since it will only provide 13% damage on the next one or two hits depneding on your weapon speed.
fact is that the 13% is only true for single target fights. in pve you have to a lo more to utelize the 10% on all opponents.
Ever try runes that increase burn duration? Or do I need to make a video on how to keep constant burning…
Pretty much. With no ranged option, there is one whole playstyle denied us. Generally, I find we only have 2 playstyles for each mode, wvw, spvp, pve. Each only has only 1 or 2 playstyles.
WvW – buffer/healer with staff, semi tanky ji bomber
Spvp – bunker
Pve – buffer/healer with staff, tanky dpsThe core guardian abilities are pretty sound, which is great, but as a result our traits are pretty watered down, leaving us with few really viable options.
Zeal is a bad traitline and Radiance is pretty bland
Haha, I like your PvE comment. So a guardian is a buffer, healer, tank, and dps? Can I ask you what a Guardian is not? You pretty much named all the roles….
Can’t actually do all at once as you need specialised gear.
And since your buffs are kinda average and your heals kinda average it kinda feels like half a role of each.
Tanky dps- I think you might get what I mean if you played LOL. There were a number of characters that didn’t really excel at tanking or dps and were kinda a hybrid. Guardian feels alot like say Garen.
Tbh I don’t dungeon much. I am sure that people have a little more variation than this, but I never really feel like a tank or dps, just kinda a mix.
The question is not being able to do it all at once, but its about having options. You labeled all the options.
And specialized gear is the point, to go down a chosen path.
There really are not a lot of options. One or two viable specs is not a lot.
Ok, what other options do you suggest if its not tanking, dps, healing, or support? Or is those options that you have already listed not viable? Because I am confused here!
Of course I do have a friend who plays the ‘lazy’ option….
-I do agree the length of most paths are too long.
-Lupie is da shhhh, don’t dis him. Need more bosses like him and harder.
Pretty much. With no ranged option, there is one whole playstyle denied us. Generally, I find we only have 2 playstyles for each mode, wvw, spvp, pve. Each only has only 1 or 2 playstyles.
WvW – buffer/healer with staff, semi tanky ji bomber
Spvp – bunker
Pve – buffer/healer with staff, tanky dpsThe core guardian abilities are pretty sound, which is great, but as a result our traits are pretty watered down, leaving us with few really viable options.
Zeal is a bad traitline and Radiance is pretty bland
Haha, I like your PvE comment. So a guardian is a buffer, healer, tank, and dps? Can I ask you what a Guardian is not? You pretty much named all the roles….
Can’t actually do all at once as you need specialised gear.
And since your buffs are kinda average and your heals kinda average it kinda feels like half a role of each.
Tanky dps- I think you might get what I mean if you played LOL. There were a number of characters that didn’t really excel at tanking or dps and were kinda a hybrid. Guardian feels alot like say Garen.
Tbh I don’t dungeon much. I am sure that people have a little more variation than this, but I never really feel like a tank or dps, just kinda a mix.
The question is not being able to do it all at once, but its about having options. You labeled all the options.
And specialized gear is the point, to go down a chosen path.
Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?
OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.
If I am not mistaken, 90% of the threads on in ‘Guild Wars 2 Discussion’ do this. Does it seem dumb now? Columbus once said the World is round…. what an opinion he had!
I think it’s odd that everyone assumes that they have the same information as Anet does. We have no idea what their numbers were like pre and post ascended gear. We do know that there was a significant group of people who were sitting around farming Orr at the expense of anything else. We do know is that a common comment on the forums was for people who didn’t feel like they had anything to do was to stop playing. That works great for the players, they don’t have to pay a subscription, so they can only come back for a few weekends a year and get their moneies worth. It makes complete sense to me that Anet doesn’t want to encourage that kind of behavior. It makes complete sense to me that adding this new tier of gear in slow batches was a measured move to combat the lack of progression that many players were feeling while hopefully not completely alienating the groups of people who are spending their time exploring the world.
I just don’t understand how everyone is so presumptuous about the facts of guildwars compared to the people who have all the numbers.
Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?
Ritualist
-Style 10: Awesome body movement while casting spells. Used the force because the character was always blindfolded.
-Strength 7: Play style is support by providing buffs to weapons, spamming spirits, and healing.
-Variability 9: Gave party support via weapon buffs and heals. Direct damage to foes, or more support to team, via spirits
-Feel: Well thought out and innovative play style. Very fun to play with many different ways to play.
Pretty much. With no ranged option, there is one whole playstyle denied us. Generally, I find we only have 2 playstyles for each mode, wvw, spvp, pve. Each only has only 1 or 2 playstyles.
WvW – buffer/healer with staff, semi tanky ji bomber
Spvp – bunker
Pve – buffer/healer with staff, tanky dpsThe core guardian abilities are pretty sound, which is great, but as a result our traits are pretty watered down, leaving us with few really viable options.
Zeal is a bad traitline and Radiance is pretty bland
Haha, I like your PvE comment. So a guardian is a buffer, healer, tank, and dps? Can I ask you what a Guardian is not? You pretty much named all the roles….
“There’s a fatal flaw in your reasoning…”
I wonder if Einstein said the same thing while on the Manhattan project…
Yes! Leveling is vertical progressions, esp. in a game that claims all content is ‘end game’. In the tradition sense, leveling is not that type of progression. However, leveling is a more acceptable way of such progression. I think on first game release, leveling is acceptable, it is a way to progress through a fresh game. Now there is no need to add levels to a character past 80… I mean Why? Everything is scaled so I ask, “what is the point?”
I have a question that I would like peoples opinions on, in no way is this particularly directed at someone, but is based on a small discussion I had earlier today and related to the topic at hand.
It had been stated in the past that Anet would consider increasing level caps with expansion. Let say they increased the level to 90, with the release of Elona or something. You now have to level up to 90, and get new gear. This would be considered Vertical progression no? Would this be any different than the current addition? If not, why?
Just to be clear, it was argued that the increase in level would just increase the end goal, and was different than gear based vertical progression and was ok. I had argued that in essence, its no different than adding a new tier.
Yes! Leveling is vertical progressions, esp. in a game that claims all content is ‘end game’. In the tradition sense, leveling is not that type of progression. However, leveling is a more acceptable way of such progression. I think on first game release, leveling is acceptable, it is a way to progress through a fresh game. Now there is no need to add levels to a character past 80… I mean Why? Everything is scaled so I ask, “what is the point?”
Pay attention to the last post I made with the video.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Death-via-Support/first#post573335
Also on that note, I am currently trying different ways with mace setup. So if your interested, let me know.
Stop wasting for a precursor. Anet is considering changes to how precursors are obtained.
All they would have to do the quell a lot of the anger is to state emphatically that Acended will be the highest tier in terms of stats, and that they will not have any tiers with higher stats.
Then in order to add “Progression” make sure that they don’t add any more normal stats to the higher tier infusions. So no infusions with more than +5 Strength or +5 Toughness or any other stat other than Agony. Hell they can even introduce more stats like Agony I couldn’t care less unless it effected other parts of the game.
As long as “progression” stays confined to one part of the game: Dungeons. I think that would be a compromised most people can live with.
Anet already made a statement that Ascended gear would be released over time and that new +stat gear would not be released every three months. However, this does not mean +stat gear would not be released at all in future content. Of course we will have to wait and see what is said Monday.
Upon reading the forums I notice that the majority of outrage is coming from +stat gear in general, not just for Dungeons. Even confining such elements still is a very huge issue no matter in what section of the game it is implemented.
when you fight it (the first time i actually did it the right way) it is really fun
There is no right way to do it. Fighting and kiting are both legit strategies. Do NOT tell people how to play the “right” way unless you want to be labeled an elitest.
Guess that makes me an elitest!
Don’t listen to them, its not the only way to do it. If you want to run CoF legit let me know. If I PUG that dungeon, and people want me to run around like a lost chicken, I tell them im going to fight them and join me if you like. Don’t listen to anybody that tells you that you can’t dungeon a legit way, those are just people who can’t hack it.
Thanks, my biggest issue isn’t that i don’t like this method it is that it isn’t fun at all. I don’t get why anyone would want to do that. Now if all 5 of us were in a room kiting trying to keep each other alive that is a completely different story. I just don’t see how anyone can have any fun running in a dying 1 at a time. Maybe some gamers have a different mentality as to what fun is, i guess i will just try to stay away from those people.
just add me as a friend in game and maybe we can get a CoF going.
Don’t listen to them, its not the only way to do it. If you want to run CoF legit let me know. If I PUG that dungeon, and people want me to run around like a lost chicken, I tell them im going to fight them and join me if you like. Don’t listen to anybody that tells you that you can’t dungeon a legit way, those are just people who can’t hack it.
- Keep armor as it currently was
- Add new Runes which not only included all previous options, but now also included Infusion Immunity.
No need to create a whole new level of gear to grind that offers a whole new tier of power.
So have sellable content on the Trade post as a way to gate? Or is these runes only obtainable via dungeon and are soulbound?
@Azjenco.9425
I like some of your ideas about traits but I disagree with your infusion ideas. I used infusions as a model to implement gating, to help satisfy those who want that type of content. If your piggy backing of my infusion idea to set a difficulty of the rest of the world, then it defeats the purpose of a compromise. In my context, I think infusion, or any other method of gating, should only pertain to a specific dungeon or area.
I prefer having it vertical. If it isn’t, PvE always be boring as hell in the end, because you’ll reach the point where you’ve done everything. With vertical, there’s the option to add harder stuff to PvE, that you actually need high-end gear to do, and you always have the option of gearing yourself and doing speed runs to compete with others. Vertical will ALWAYS be better for PvE in that manner. However, this should ONLY be for PvE. If they make PvP and WvW gear based, the game would be ruined.
If vertical progression is to make content more difficult, could Anet not release a new dungeon that requires all participants to be in MasterWork gear (green)? Would this not have the same effect?
If the point is that your referring to the Manifesto, then I understand the point completely. First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear), and grind in itself is relative. But the community agrees that a gear treadmill is a grind. I think your missing the point.
Re-Read and be constructive.
It does more then that, it specifically states we would not be forced to play the game in a single pigeonholed manner.
Making this armor only available via fractals invalidates that claim and makes obsolete every craft discipline in the game. That’s just one of the ways they have backpedaled on their promises.
“… First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear)…”
…In Context… Re-Read
Do you have any thoughts, ideas, questions, or comments to contribute to the thread that is beneficial to the topic?
Thanks Leonard, that cleared up a lot of things.
This is something that needs to be voted on in a poll. Gated content vs. Progression in gear stats. Ready? Go! KITTEN-STORM!!!! :O
Haha, I don’t think that is the point of why I created this thread… esp. the ‘kitten-storm’.
Instead, in this thread I tried to dig deeper into why some people wanted stat progression gear and to show the deeper reason of wanting gear instead of the ‘smoke screen’ reason. I belive it is gated content, the ability for others to gloat achievement where others have failed.
(In my own thoughts, I would like all those who fume that GW2 needs +stat progressions, to show me screen shots of their full Arah set with Dungeon Master title.)
Depending on what MMO you look at and how you look at it, Gated content is: any content that requires an item, gear, level, achievement, etc…, or all the above that prevents players from continuing to a specific area.
For example, in Guild Wars 2, you have to be level 80 to run Arah in explore mode. You only need be level 1, I believe, to run Fractals but you can’t run a higher level of Fractals until you run a lower level of the same dungeon.
(edited by Leonard.2867)
No.
I want:
-The Ritualist back
-Dungeons that would put Giganticis to shame
-Unobtainium weapons that are more involved to acquire vs. current legendary system
-A fresh story that may or may not evolve from the Elder Dragons.
-Be taken to a fresh new part of the Tyria globe that we have not seen from either GW
-Dungeons with less trash and more boss.
-Unobtainium Armor.
-I want to know whats in the mages temple that floats in the sky
In a system that promotes player and team skill over player and team stats, such as Guild Wars 2, the current GW2 setup is fine.
I’m all for gating content in a way that doesn’t affect my other content (such as open world or WvW).
Solution 1) Limit ascended gear stats to only be higher inside the new dungeons. In the open world and WvW, the stats are equivalent to exotics. This keeps people like me out of the new content since I plan to stick to my exotics, and keeps the gear grind out of my WvW.
Solution 2) Toss out the idea of bigger stats entirely and instead focus on making achievements the requirements to getting into new zones. You can only get to level 15 of fractals if you have some item from level 14 that allows you to survive. And you can only enter the next dungeon if you get an item from level 30 of fractals or something like that
I agree with having an item that helps one progress through a dungeon, but I disagree that that item is used as a key to unlock content, hence why I state that all levels of a gated community should be open. My philosophy on this is simple.
Say your in a 5 man party who all wears green gear. Now you decided to tackle Arah. Sure you can take on Arah, but truly how effect would you be in comparison to having all exotics? I believe this same mechanics can be applied to an ‘agony’ type dungeon. You obtain items that is dungeon specific to help survive the deeper levels on such dungeon.
The reward system can be: You can gain your exotic set from that dungeon in tears. The deeper you go, the more you collect on your dungeon set. Thus, once you master that dungeon, you have a full skin to show off your ‘l33tness’. And the gear gained from a tiered dungeon is not better than other dungeons.
(edited by Leonard.2867)
There is no solution that makes both ends of the spectrum happy. However, there’s a solution that would make everyone who doesn’t feel too strongly(and I mean strongly) about one way or the other. Diagonal progression is easy to achieve: Just release more powerful gear every set amount of time, and at the same instance give anyone who doesn’t have the second powerful tier of gear equipped a super easy way to get it.
That would eliminate the issue most people are having problems with, namely people dropping too far behind if they didn’t start grinding from day one, while still allowing the real grinders to feel better than everyone else, or like ANet describes it “give dedicated players an edge”.
It would still be a gear treadmill, and personally I would never consider playing a game like that, but it should give the bulk of players taking issue with vertical progression a valid option. Grind hard to be(and stay) the best, or take it easy and be the eternal second.
I was talking strictly about PvE here, btw.
I can understand but Anet has already done that with " …pish-posh amount of stat progression". What I mean with pish-posh is; almost meaningless stat progression. With even that small amount, you can see the inflamed forums. Like I said, I believe the core of stat grinding is the element of gating. But there is still a few that love big powerful numbers that mean nothing in newer content.
My idea that stat progression is really gating is based from threads and post that state Ascended gear is the right way to go, in terms of adding meaningful progression to Guild Wars 2. But ascended gear really offers no meaningful progression in PvE.
(edited by Leonard.2867)
I agree, don’t ask for box value back. However, if you paid into the Gem shop… that’s a different story.
Gating content in a way that doesn’t invalidate previous content or affect other parts of the game would probably be just fine to the majority of the anti-grind crowd.
Take, as an example, 4 dungeons: A, B, C, and D. Completion of each of these dungeons is tied to an achievement/title. A, B, and C can be completed in any order, but D is gated until the other 3 are completed. Completion of these dungeons doesn’t have any effect on other parts of the game. By doing this, you have created a self-contained gate to content.
Going back to ascended gear: if ascended gear had identical stats to exotic gear, but also had the infusion slot. Infusions could grant increased stats as well as agony resistance, but they worked only in FotM. Again, self-contained content gating.
That might work, but only if the dungeon D didn’t offer better rewards than dungeons A, B and C (that does include better drop rates or useful items – especially exclusive items, but does not include unique skins etc). Otherwise, if unlocking it would be hard, you’d run in mandatory grind problem again.
Agreed on the basis that I don’t think the gains from one dungeon should out preform any other dungeon. If certain items are needed for a dungeon, then keep it separate from armor, weapons, and accessories (Jewelry). Make a separate slot that is dungeon specific.
Did not see this post and good points. I made a similar post, also with hope for actual constructive community feed back.
This post has very few responses in comparison to ‘rant n’ rave’ topics. I find this happening in many constructive threats. Anyways, maybe a moderator can merge my thread with this one?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Vertical-vs-Horizontal-a-compromise/first#post833924
Lets try and build constructive criticism!
I think we shall find out Monday.
If the point is that your referring to the Manifesto, then I understand the point completely. First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear), and grind in itself is relative. But the community agrees that a gear treadmill is a grind. I think your missing the point.
Re-Read and be constructive.
Everybody is allowed to be frustraded at something. so I have nothing wrong with you frustration.
However,
“They have also stated quite clearly that Ascended gear is not a step towards vertical gear progression, but was intended to be an intermediate step between Exotic and Legendary gear to make a more manageable progression regarding a stat gap.”
I’m not sure exactly what your implying here with ‘stat’ gap, but a legendary and exotics never had a stat gap. If implying that a Legendary will gain stats because of Ascended gear, then why introduced Ascended gear?
Anyways, I have already made a long post about this if you want to read.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-pregressive-question-of-why/first#post829780
Maybe there is a common ground that can be reached to where both sides can have cake and eat it too. If we look at other mmos with gear progressions, we find that the gear itself acts as a key to enter new content, thus creating a gated community. So new gear creates a sense of progression through the game. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand is a scaled universe. No amount of stat progression is going to make a player anymore powerful in any zone. Guild Wars 2 wants to focus around the player and not the gear.
I ask: what is the point of higher stat gear progression? Are the new creatures of the world not scaled to balance the stat progression; in any mmo? This is why +stat gear is only a key, not true progression.
A prime example of an excellent RPG that shares some of the same principles with Anet is Oblivion/Skyrim. In Skyrim, you could technically complete the entire story at level one, because the world is adjusted to your +stat progress. I never felt the need in that game to gain ‘godly’ gear, but rather to find gear that conforms my style of play. Guild Wars 2 is no different. I would take Skyrim’s Action element any day over Diablo 3. And I would take Guild Wars 2 element over World of Warcraft.
I can understand that there is many out in the mmo world that want +stat gear. Some do feel a sense of progression when they see ever-so-larger numbers. But I don’t think the core of this is because of larger numbers; rather, I believe its the element that one is part of a gated community. Being part of a group that has progressed through tougher content that others have not.
Now I don’t think im too far off the mark when I state that most who post in the forums, who rage on either side of the argument, represent the ‘hard-core’ element of Guild Wars 2. ‘Hard-Core’ is relative of course, but I think we all share a common perspective on what it is. And the vast majority that we know are still currently playing Guild Wars 2 are relativity still enjoying the content without too much focus on the actual changes.
The only effective way I can think of at the moment to strike a compromise between the two, is to have Gated content but not progression in gear stats. And I truly think that Anet was trying to strike this balance, with gear that offers a pish-posh amount of stat progression, while at the same time, offering gated content at a certain level of one dungeon. Thus trying to appease the vertical progress side while trying to maintain the balance.
My suggestion: Do away with gear progression and find a better way to implement gated content. If it is an infusion route, make a separate infusion slot on the character data sheet next to accessories. Do not have dungeon level progression. Each character should have access to all levels from the beginning. As a player progresses through the different levels, that player gians access to more powerful infusion gear/accessory. The infusion accessories gained from a dungeon will only pertain to that specific dungeon.
I welcome all constructive comments, concerns and questions.
I don’t want a turning point or decline in GW2.
Its like you have a brand new car and when you take it to be serviced, the Mechanic goes and takes a dump on your front seat.
I guess I don’t get this analogy. Every other MMO increases it’s gear/levels etc as time goes on. I don’t understand what players would do in a game that this did not happen?? Again sit and wait for the next Christmas event for a santa Claus hat?
I’m not trying to disrespect your comment I honestly don’t understand how anyone can think or why this should not happen that gear/levels etc change as the game grows. Year from now I certainly would not be around with this game if all it did was give me a new look over and over and over again if I am perfectly fine with the set I am wearing.
Why do you need higher stat gear? If you get higher stat gear, then the creatures in the game are still adjusted to your new progress; thus, you truly have made no progress. Zones are scaled to level, so higher stat gear would make no difference there either. So if you gain +stat gear, what do you gain? In reality all you gain is a new skin.
If they apologize for the ‘mess’ then they would have to apologize for the game.
I really don’t think that ANet should give anybody an apology in concern to the one time event. They tried something new, and then released a survey about the event. It’s not that they did not care in this respect because they wanted your direct feedback.