Guild Wars 2

moral of the story is…..buy a better lawnmower/ L2Mow

Ozzy and others are not even playing condi shatter how it should be.
Condition shatter is NOT about using PU and keeping 6 (lol thats shockingly low dmg) confusion or w/e and trying to sustain dmg like condi engis. Condition shatter is about spike dmg.
The current condition shatter (im assuming dueling, illusions, inspiration) is actually viable not because you can keep 6 confusion, but because you can spike 10+ torment and confusion, on top of bleeds and burns, ASWELL as have amazing condi removal yourself (condi removal on each shatter, 2 on each heal, null field and 1 per torch skill used)
Everyone knows good players will condi clear as and when, which is why good mesmers save their spikes for when they have no dodges/ used cds. eg ( distortion when using scepter 3, daze/stunning when you have applied max stacks. Remember your blinds also apply confusion. Chaos is right, its the torment that is the daddy.
I feel this build really shines because of Temporal Enchanter. Chaos storm + null field + Resistance is so much on point pressure you can pretty much push any bunker off point.
Condi shatter excels in 1v1s and 2v2s and less as the match ups increase. But if you learn to spike when enemies are clustered you can cause havok for thieves, engis, mesmers.

I tanked my mmr to 8-10+ mins queues and facing/teaming up with the likes of Orng in ranked just by condi shatter and using it properly ( in a non passive PU condi phantasm way)
The build is not op, it DOES take some skill, learning to play and yes good players who know how to cleanse will cause you problems. I feel it excels more because it counter comps/builds the enemy rather than being op you can faceroll on your keyboard.

@Ross Biddle……you must have been fighting THE worse condi mesmer ever if thats all you had to do with 0 condi removal.
People need to learn to play it as it should be, condi shatter, not some passive phantasm condi pu crap where spamming AA and phantasms does not give you a free win.

UPDATE: These dc’s only seem to be happening frequently in pvp servers. Sort out your pvp server anet, i know i’m not the only one.

WvW (rare occasion) and pve is fine but i cant last 5 mins without lag then a total dc in pvp

This is happening to me also, really really frustrating. Connection is perfect, then out of no where, full lag leading into dc then this message.

Happening every 10 mins now and i dont know why. Never usd to happen until last week or so.

Please look into it, its making the game unplayable and i KNOW ITS NOT MY INTERNET. As i have no issues outside the game

They should, at the very least, implement solo queue for the HOT launch. With the influx of players, old and new, this is a real chance to fix/ get pvp out of beta mode once and for all.

If it doesnt work because queue times are too long, fair enough but i think its clear to see that everyone would like a separate solo queue. I would rather, as a solo player, wait an extra 3-5 mins (my queue times are 5-8 mins anyway) if it means a good, even solo 5v5 match, and not pug v premade.

Also, give us something to do while queueing. Gets so boring in HOTM, and it’s Anets fault we are stuck in there.

Aeolus.3615:

Liam McColgan.7689:

ANET need to see this video (they should be anyway if they take any interest in their own game’s tourneys) and stop being so stubborn.

It was sad to watch and listen to.

Like i said before in some other thread, easy game means more players, also theres no point of spending resources balancing game where an expansion will be added with alot of changes.

I expect a big update 6months after Hot to try to balance the game.

I agree there is not much/anything that will be done in time. HOT is too close, and who knows if there will be a meta change due to specs, but i am not confident ele will be toned down in any way. People i know everywhere have just rerolled ele because the trade off is so great when it comes to time learning the class converting to success.

I’m just not convinced they will be toned down by passive buffs to other classes (new specialisations ). It will take an active nerf from anet to tone them down so people dont roll them to insta win, or by stacking them in a team.

ANET need to see this video (they should be anyway if they take any interest in their own game’s tourneys) and stop being so stubborn.

It was sad to watch and listen to.

PLASE FIX THIS ASAP. I wasnt bothered by it for first few games because winning….but then a team just came back from like 250 points because of dc…

and it was impossible to kill because of clone rally. It was annoying because i was only mesmer and the bug just carried the other team so much because it was insta rally when down.

Please fix.

2v2/ 3v3 or RIOT!!!!

But on a serious note, this will never happen. You should all know what ANET are like by now, and what direction they are taking the game.

They spend Soooooo much time in making stronghold when adding a basic arena with a couple of obstacles for LOS tactics would have been proven to be 1000x more popular. They don’t get it, and never will. They need to realise they don’t have the player base to make 5v5 an esports other than 4 (FOUR lel) teams.

More than one game mode and a proper league system with proper rewards should have been added at launch, now all thats left are the people who held onto that dream.

Wishful thinking.

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

Sorry i’m gonna respectfully say, you talk as much dribble as he does. WTF do you mean, accessible to your skill level????! There is no hard counter to d/d ele at ANY skill level. IF both players are bad, ele wins, if both players are good, ele wins. HE said there are more than 1. I’m asking him to tell me JUST ONE.

He claims rock paper scissors logic, which simple doesnt exist for d/d ele.

And you do realise people are calling for nerfs NOT because you cant win a 1v1 or they cannot be bothered to find a counter to them (who 1v1s an ele unless you are a bunker and only then if you are contesting/defending a cap). They are a bunker, just like any other bunker, but they have amazing mobility, condi cleanse, sustain, peels, access to combo fields, might stacking etc etc. All this is too much. If you cannot see that or acknowledge it then thats your choice.

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

Don’t lie Jurica, you only found this out y’day.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Matty.1953:

Okay! Here are two:

http://plays.tv/video/55cecce1f2bcc7d0e3

http://plays.tv/video/55cecbcd55d337816f (pretty much toying with this guy)

This guy is basically spamming his skills. He uses mind stab on a blocking engi, he doesn’t set up spikes. He instantly uses Phase Retreat trough Chaos Storm for Chaos Armor while the engi is just running around,
Facetanking random kitten.

I only watched the second one, but yes he did ‘spam’ alot of skills, and wasted alot of spikes (GS 5 when engi was blocking or no where near) but then again double ranged shatter is more sustained than stealth bursting with s/t. I don’t know. Mes is so op you dont even have to be amazing to win duels now. This is nothing amazing.

Stow/draw weapon is nothing new dude.
People have been using (abusing?) it for years now, especially mesmers because of their long post cast animations for their GS skills. It is also pretty standard thing to do in any mmo pvp, as fake casting is an easy way to bait cds and dodges. Granted some people might not know this, but if you read these forums, you probably watch tourneys/streamers, in which 90% of mesmers will use stow weapon to reduce cast times and to fake cast.

Was on forums, saw this so here’s some tips;
- Mega servers mean you can play with anyone in eu, as the server puts you in the one thats with your party/guild when you load up a map/area. Servers only matter for WvW. You cannot play WvW with your guild if they are not in the same WvW servers. But for pvp/pve and anything else, server is irrelevant.
- pve community is generally very friendly
- Don’t treat this like WoW. As a WoW veteran, gw2 is very different, and doesnt try to replicate WoW (Which is a good thing :P ).
Have fun and good luck with finding the right guild for you.
-

Yes i do believe staff ele requires more skill than d/d ele. So what they use the same amulet? If staff was more effective and the risk/reward ratio was on par with d/d (especially survivability) then the majority of eles would be staff. But it clearly is not. So i dont understand what the issue with that is.

YEs mesmers/thieves excel at their role too, +1ing/mobility, burst. But it requires a much higher risk/reward ratio to d/d ele. If you kitten up on those, or any zerker class for that matter, you are insta dead (maybe not so mesmer now most run pu). If you kitten up as d/d ele, its np. They do nothing other than self sustain on a node. Why cant you accept this is not skilful, yet is very effective. The risk/rward ratio simply is not the same.

I get your point. Hence why people have QQed for years that mesmer or any other zerker were being pushed out the meta because of thieves. Thieves were literally the only reason you didnt see other top tier zerker classes until recently. Now mesmer and med guard is up there with thief, if not better. It’s a shame fresh air eles are not. Now its time for d/d eles to experience the same. Class stacking should NEVER be justified. End of.

Thief was too good at burst in relation to other classes,they got fixed ( by med and mes buffs) eles are too good at bunkering in relation to other classes…..so what the hell is your point?

dominik.9721:

Sunshine.5014:

snip

Funny that there are still people who aren’t able to understand the difference between ele+ele and ele+bunkerguard. Especially when it comes to temple…

10/10

Yeh people are like " well guard is superior bunker to ele EXCEPT the dont have the mobility. "
Well it is NOT superior then. Especially when the whole game is based on rotations if all skill being equal. Hence why double stacked ele > ele + bunker. ANY team that wins THE tournament for that game with class stacking deserves to be dissected, questioned and debated about, regardless of class. Double stacking /= balance.

skcamow.3527:

It’s so easy to chalk up the Abjured win to a reason that places no responsibility on oneself or a team. Why is this?

It’s so convenient to completely dismiss the fact the Abjured were in the losers bracket. Hm, really? Why is that? They still had 2 d/d ele’s for those matches. What happened? oRNG played better. As a team, they countered just about everything the Abjured were doing.

Then come the finals. I’m sure most people expected oRNG to run away with it, but something interesting happened. The Abjured exhibited a better ability to adapt to what oRNG was doing, create a tactical advantage and out rotate them, over and over. Is this tactical advantage attributed only to the fact they had 2 d/d ele’s? No!

2 d/d eles are obviously strong, but waaay too much weight is being put on that fact alone as a reason for the Abjured win and less on team tactics and misplays.

True. I think people (certainly me) accept oRNG played/rotated terribly in final game. They proved they can and probably should have beaten Abjured in the finals. But you can also argue it was Toker’s decapping/back capping/ +1ing/clutch stealths or Chaithes amazingly timed moas or cc/kiting carrying them. The eles just did what they always do. Brainless bunkering/ self sustaining. It’s unfortunate they stacked said class too. If oRNG won playing double rampage the same discussion would be happening about how stupid double warr and rampage is. But they didnt. They also had a necro playing cele, because stacking 3x ele would be absurd right? My argument is people have accepted for some reason that d/d cele eles are a) skilful and b) totally fine with defining the meta for months and months and months. I am not. Hence why i’m putting my argument across, and i’m not the only one.

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.

When it was last time any decent player got killed by a staff ele or scepter ele? When it was last time you got killed by a staff ele for example?

But to sum it up, the staff and scepter ele that can’t kill any decent player..require skill, meanwhile the d/d set which brings eles up to par to other professions and to which you die…requires no skill, hmm..such coincidence…

I’ll leave this here:
http://www.vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

No d/d cele doesnt not bring the class up to par, it takes them over par. No people dont die to a cele ele. If you do, you deserve to die. You should not be 1v1ing a d/d cele ele unless you are a bunker yourself, and only if the point is worth 1v1ing on (you have it capped or to keep it neutral). They die to the rest of the team, be it the thief +1ing or the eles bunker stacking while you get decapped elsewhere.

The ele is NOT skillful and is NOT mvp. They simply do their job incredibly effectively, which is hold the point, peel/cleanse for allies while the rest of the team actually does good plays. At the end of the day, if 6/20 classes were d/d cele eles at WTS, what does that prove. It’s not about favouritism, or being salty, or toxic for the sake of being toxic as you are trying to imply with that article. It’s about accepting, that one class, with 1 amulet, has been god more for over a year and it’s boring. People want a change. People want risk/reward ratios to be as balanced as possible for every class. Now it is near impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, but that doesn’t mean you can try to create an argument that 1 class with 1 amulet is fine when it is not.

Yes there will always be 1 class considered OP no matter what. When d/d ele gets nerfed (if it ever will) another will replace it just like its predecessor, but for the love of god change it. Over a year is over a year too much.

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.

I think leagues will work for 5v5 pre-made queuing.
But solo queueing is, and will still be, a nightmare. Unfortunately this game is heavily reliant on 2 things; build(bunkers over zerkers) and communication(can we out rotate the opposition). Yolo queue has neither most of the time. Class stacking/ being out compd before the game even begins is still an issue, as well as pug v premade.

Finally, if they insist on creating a PERSONAL leaderboard in a TEAM focused pvp game, it will never ever work. The league standings have to be based on the team rooster and not the individual. I never understood why 5v5 premade queuing affected a personal rating on the LB. Logic out the window.

Any news on if they will separate pugs and premades again?

Well thanks for the ‘lesson’. You dont even know anything about me to assume i know nothing. Your condescending attitude sucks. Of course oRNG played bad in the finals. They over extended, over rotated, focused too much on getting the down states rather than the caps and just left toker to backcap them whole series. Thats good play from the THIEF, hence why most say toker was MVP. But at the end of the day, Abjured won as the ONLY team who stacked the same bunker class and it hasn’t been the first time either. It’ just happened to be the class and amulet most people accept is op, or at the very least out of line with other builds attempting to play the same role. Their necro was also cele, and the engi has been too, up till latest patch, but i have slightly more respect in terms of those classes. Get it? No? Don’t bother replying then please. People defending cele bunker comps either play said classes or are happy with the fact running around a node is classed as skillful. I just have a different view on skill. Again, look at the ‘plays’ each class does and then tell me which requires a brain and which does not.

posthumecaver.6473:

Liam McColgan.7689:

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Wait a second you mean only want to have composition bursting instantly the opposition, like 5 mesmers bursting you out of stealth.

Then sir, you do not get my vote. I am against one shot meta, or like while warrior having an awesome Elite as Rampage and Ele must live with Fiery Greatsword.

I rather prefer to survive a burst that somebody does from stealth and do something about it.

Where anywhere did i say i want a 1 shot burst 5x mesmer meta? Just because i think a SINGLE d/d cele ele is op let alone DOUBLE. doesnt mean i want a 5x mesmer 1 shot meta. You are just..i dont even…..you’ve literally just made that up in your head xD

EDIT: for the record, a 5x mesmer 1 shot burst comp v 5x cele d/d eles would be 10000x more fun to watch from the mesmer point of view so again, not sure wtf you are on about dude….
At least we agree Rampage is pretty silly in its current state

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

It’s nice to know that a year later, people are still running around like braindead chickens (no offence to the chickens out there) winning tournaments with double d/d cele ele. SMH. #ESPORTSlol.

On a more serious note, some of the Orng and Abjured games were epic.

I just can’t stand double cele ele comps being carried by the setup over more skilled (relying on rotations and co-ordinated burst) teams like TCG. Got NO time for that. (and its not an NA v Eu thing. I hated Cheese Mode for the exact same reason, except Abjurd are 10x more kitten)

And i really wish people would stop saying what amazing players they are.

My nan can run around self sustaining herself as d/d ele on a node. It’s the total opposite of what top tier team pvp play should be about, and no one can convince me otherwise.

Don’t let these braindead cele eles tell you how amazing they are. Watch the clutch plays from thief/mes/engi and then look at the ele plays…./15chars

An unhelpful, non-constructive response from someone in the pvp community? Shocker ^^^

Sube Dai.8496:

The lack of a leaderboard is a pretty effing big problem.

This.

I love this game. It’s the most i play of any game. But pvp is terrible now. Unless you are in a competitive team doing weekly tournaments, there is kitten all for anyone else.

Like how hard is it to just get the ladder board back up and running!? It sucks anyway but at least its SOMETHING to do while yolo queueing/ duo queueing.

I just dont get ANets thought process on anything really. It’s like the game is in a constant Beta/testing phase.

Pvp is dull, predictable, even less diversity with builds now the new trait system forces you into certain lines and take useless traits just for that one good one.

Edit: I’m adding an option c for banter purposes:

c) it doesn’t matter because kitten gets blown up anyway

Akikaze.1307:

Liam McColgan.7689:

Damage is high SHOCK!!! But seriously. Go play MANY ranked with top players/teams, gather stats and feedback then discuss what you think should be buffed/nerfed/tonned down. That is a constructive thread, not this.

Creating a post/video of 1v1 is just stupid because the game isnt revolved around 1v1 and never will be for this exact reason.

Imagine if you manipulated this exact scenario pre-patch with say a pu condi build or something in a 1v1 situation. You could easily create a thread saying ’ong pu is OP must nerf) when in reality is if far from the truth since pvp is a 5v5 system only.

While sPvP is a 5v5 mode. The occurrence of a full out 5v5 battle around a point is actually very rare. When 5v5 do occur, it’s often very chaotic and people go down very fast regardless. It’s not surprising that 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 across nodes are actually more frequent. Sometimes 1v1 to keep a point captured until your allies rotate is important.

I agree, but at a good level of tpvp….a mesmer v guard both dps is a 1 shot fest anyway, so in that sense its balanced (mesmer should win due to range advantage but both is crazy dmg). If you are looking at 2v2/ 3v3,s then yes i agree theory craft that, but once again this thread/video is irrelevant in this sense. Finally, a mesmer or guard shouldnt really be trying 1v1s anyway, their job is to team support/ +1. Just because a mesmer +1’s a fight, 2 shots the target then leaves, hes is op? No he is doing his job just like any other zerker. I still fail to see the point of this.

Ok, need some dps advice. I’m playing full beserker interrupt right now (so damage is pretty crazy right now).

What is the better option to maximise damage out put (with focus over burst damage);

Assuming both options have around 50% crit chance;

a) 2.2k power and 222.13 ferocity (LOL)

b) 2.375k power and 209 ferocity

What is the better dps option over all?

I know power is better because if you dont crit, option b does more damage, but does it get to a point where it makes sense, once you hit a certain power level, to go all out ferocity? Or is stacking power always the better dps option.

I guess i’m asking what will be better in the long term for pewpew burst mesmer. Thanks.

Damage is high SHOCK!!! But seriously. Go play MANY ranked with top players/teams, gather stats and feedback then discuss what you think should be buffed/nerfed/tonned down. That is a constructive thread, not this.

Creating a post/video of 1v1 is just stupid because the game isnt revolved around 1v1 and never will be for this exact reason.

Imagine if you manipulated this exact scenario pre-patch with say a pu condi build or something in a 1v1 situation. You could easily create a thread saying ’ong pu is OP must nerf) when in reality is if far from the truth since pvp is a 5v5 system only.

Or get a thief/mesmer on your team and join in the fun

Does anyone take this guy seriously when he posts these threads? Its like 5 a day! Mesmers have already seen the nerf bat.

The amount of QQ threads you do points towards you just being plain bad at this game rather than everyone else OP.

Yes damage is high, but is high for everyone.

It’s almost as if the devs have either come across a skilled mesmer in pvp, got wrecked, or they have listened to a bunch of inadequate, average people who have complained about us, and listened!. So unprofessional.

There are so many issues right now with balance. At the moment every class is being QQd as OP. So why have they jumped onto mesmers like its a do or die situation.

It’s really sad. You have the chance to make more than 1 build viable in pvp, yet you go around nerfing traits left right and centre just because they compare/are as good if not better than old school power shatter? You dont even know what the problems are. It’s PU not MtD rofl.

Anet are idiots. I dont care if i get a warning. It’s just down right stupid and sends out the wrong message to everyone if you focus nerf one class So SOON after going live, yet everyone else can carry on doing crazy spike/condi dmg.

Yeh i agree, rabid doesnt have the damage to get them below the threshold to the destroy them. But good eles will make it hard anyway. And in a tourney/pvp setting they wont be >90% for long unless you are 1v1ing, but even then you shouldnt be 1v1ing an ele even as power. So keeping the toughness from rabid is a better trade-off seeing it’s stronger in every sense.

Condition shatter is totally different to the bunker, sustain stacking, ccing engis, rangers, necros and warrior condition based builds around. They rely on condition bombing/spiking.

So to see 15-20 torment stacks in a matter of seconds does not warrant a nerf. A good player will condi cleanse this, so the only other benefit then is the boon removal, blinds, stun/daze thats comes with the shatter build. I have been playing this alot and yes, it is strong, but op? no! Not when you look at the power burst and powr shatter right now.

For condition shatter to be viable/meta it has to have an advantage, be as good if not better than power shatter. Conditions only do good damage when you stack. And right now the big stacks hurt. But we cant spam these. As soon as someone condi cleanses, you are looking at ‘sustain damage of 5-8 stacks’. This becomes less effective and your build rotation then starts to focus on surviving the counter pressure you will face if the enemy doesnt have conditions.

All im saying is, you cant nerf a trait after 16 hours just because of a few complaints. Mesmers might finally have more than one viable build at ESL/tourney level, so to nerf it so soon when there is so much power burst and other classes doing insane condition damage, is really sad. Rangers are still allowed to stack 15+ stacks, and engis flame grill their enemies for their next BBQ, yet MtD got nerfed? It was never viable as 1 stack, and even as 2 before y’day its was not viable. So to nerf it by 50% ALREADY is really bad management.

Edit: I know some people were saying that condi shatter as a carrion GS or hybrid power/condition was really strong, but im talking from pure condi shatter build with staff, sc/t. Fix it/move it so power shatter builds dont abuse MtD, not nerf the actual trait.

Choas is good if you want defense, a buffed staff/ choas armor for example, but im going all out offense because im pro…and tbh…in a ranked/tourney setting, boon stripping is TOO GOOD to not have.

yeh 1v1 diamond totally counters if you are rabid, you dont have the dmg to get them under 90% to be able to rek them. But then again, unless you are 1v1, they wont be at >90% for too long. Even as power you shouldnt really be 1v1ing an ele anyway so its only really countered in 1v1 servers :P

I’m just totally gutted they have nerfed MtD already. People saying its because power builds were using it and its too op, but cmon, Make something other than power shatter viable for mesmers.

Anet dont even understand the concept of their own build. Condi shatter is about spike/burst shatter dmg. If i didnt think shattering as condition build would be good dmg , i would go phantasm and let them freecast like a passive noob.

Finally when a condition build looks strong for mesmers in tpvp, they nerf it less than 20 hours of it being live.

Yet rangers and engis are still allowed to spam 15+ stacks of bleed/burn.

I just made this post in pvp section, il copy and paste what i put because im lazy . ps. this was BEFORE i jsut found out the nerfed MtD…which is a total joke.

This was a response to the argument condition builds cant keep up with the big power burst going on right now:

i disagree. I’ve been playing ranked condition shatter, and 90% of the time winning, and very comfortably at that. And this is playing against ESL players, not hotjoiners.
However, its because condition shatter is totally different to the other condition builds out there, which rely on stacking and sustain.

The beauty of condition shatter right now is the ability to stack on avrage 15+ confusion and 15-20 torment in a matter of seconds. Now this kind of condi bombing is on par with the power burst, honestly. I can literally 100%-0 in 5 seconds if i get the stacks up. Torment ticks for 4k+ alone, with 15-20 stacks.
I kill npcs faster than power.

So, please do NOT nerf MtD or torment in general ANET. It’s early days but i firmly believe condition shatter will have a place in this meta purely because it goes against the concept of other condi builds (being bunkerish, sustain, cc, covering condis with bait ones etc).

Condition shatter; you can, stack 2x torment, 2x confusion, blind, stun/daze, boon strip, slow, increase cd on interrupted skills with ONE shatter…..craaazzzzzy.
Also the Gm scepter trait is sick (Malicious Sorcery) , <3 anet for it. 15% inc speed on scepter skills, so it no longer feels lik a slow sluggish weapon now. Also, the 20% reduction making scepter block +5 torment stacks on a 6 ’ SIX!!!!’ second cd….so good.
I’m gonna keep theory crafting but the only hard counter i can see right now are diamond skin eles and thats only in a 1v1 situation. Everything else, assuming you have a good skill level with shatter (including thieves :p) simply cannot handle the condi spikes.
I’m even getting hate w/ because they think im PU (im not) or people generally saying “omg is this the new mesmers now, its aids” etc etc.

For anyone interested, this is the build im using: If you know how to play shatter or pre patch condi shatter….have fun!

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3lZ;1VPVz047cVF71;9;4STW;0038138258;4V3X6U;1j2;42y

i disagree. I’ve been playing ranked condition shatter, and 90% of the time winning, and very comfortably at that. And this is playing against ESL players, not hotjoiners.

However, its because condition shatter is totally different to the other condition builds out there, which rely on stacking and sustain.

The beauty of condition shatter right now is the ability to stack on avrage 15+ confusion and 15-20 torment in a matter of seconds. Now this kind of condi bombing is on par with the power burst, honestly. I can literally 100%-0 in 5 seconds if i get the stacks up. Torment ticks for 4k+ alone, with 15-20 stacks.

I kill npcs faster than power.

So, please do NOT nerf MtD or torment in general ANET. It’s early days but i firmly believe condition shatter will have a place in this meta purely because it goes against the concept of other condi builds (being bunkerish, sustain, cc, covering condis with bait ones etc).

Condition shatter; you can, stack 2x torment, 2x confusion, blind, stun/daze, boon strip, slow, increase cd on interrupted skills with ONE shatter…..craaazzzzzy.

Also the Gm scepter trait is sick (Malicious Sorcery) , <3 anet for it. 15% inc speed on scepter skills, so it no longer feels lik a slow sluggish weapon now. Also, the 20% reduction making scepter block +5 torment stacks on a 6 ’ SIX!!!!’ second cd….so good.

I’m gonna keep theory crafting but the only hard counter i can see right now are diamond skin eles and thats only in a 1v1 situation. Everything else, assuming you have a good skill level with shatter (including thieves :p) simply cannot handle the condi spikes.

I’m even getting hate w/ because they think im PU (im not) or people generally saying “omg is this the new mesmers now, its aids” etc etc.

For anyone interested, this is the build im using: If you know how to play shatter or pre patch condi shatter….have fun!

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3lZ;1VPVz047cVF71;9;4STW;0038138258;4V3X6U;1j2;42y

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Liam McColgan.7689:

“Mesmer – (silently stands in shadows to avoid nerfs)” – we’ve already been nerfed!!!! Apparently due to the streams earlier, ANET have already nerfed MtD by 50%.

SO everyone getting excited about mesmer build diversity in pvp, especially with condition shatter, have already been kicked in the teeth.

Yes, they nerfed a core trait, based on someone streaming Golem damage BEFORE ITS EVEN BEEN RELEASED!

Got to love Anet sometimes <3

We got nerfed because our torment shatter did 8 stacks of torment to an immobile target golem (and apparently did some obscene damage.) The golem was so overwhelmed it didn’t have time to pop its condi cleanse and was so flummoxed that it managed to show moving damage while stationary.

So no.. Let’s not nerf torment, let’s nerf Mesmer! Nerf them based on target-golem tests rather than actual in-game application tests!

Haha i know right! It’s like they forgot the whole concept of condition shatter (to do spike condi dmg, big stacks before they get removed from the millions of condi cleanses out there). Condi shatter is all about getting those big spikign stacks up, rather than spamming sustain condi pressure like rangers/engis.

To make MtD worth while the condi effects from shatters have to out-weigh the condi dmg/powr damage from if you had the clone up doing its thing. Thats the only reason you would go shatter over phantasm. So wtf were they thinking!?

I think mine and many other peoples issues was not over the actual price. £35 for a game we dont have to subscribe to or invest any more money into is not a bad deal.

However its the fact new comers, who will enjoy everything that has come, AND everything that will come, for technically half the price, is unjust imo.

Yes, its a great incentive for new comers, but where is the respect/ reward for veterans. Why should we have to pay again, and not even get anything extra in comparison to someone new?

After all is is us who has kept ANET afloat and even able to make this expansion possible. I just think its a kick in the teeth for veteran players and puts out the impression this expansion is all about luring in new players, rather than saying “Hey, you guys have played this game for nearly 3 years, lets give you more content/progression because its about time, and thanks for sticking with us!”.

Thats how i see it anyway

EDIT: In the UK especially, a lot of mobile phone/broadband/banks suppliers etc. tend to create amazing deals for enticing new customers, and forget about looking after their already paying/existing ones. This alienates them, and gives the impression they are not important. Therefore people switch or demand to get the same deals as new customers.

This is very common practice and is an extremely common issue in their respective industries. I see the expansion issue as no different.

“Mesmer – (silently stands in shadows to avoid nerfs)” – we’ve already been nerfed!!!! Apparently due to the streams earlier, ANET have already nerfed MtD by 50%.

SO everyone getting excited about mesmer build diversity in pvp, especially with condition shatter, have already been kicked in the teeth.

Yes, they nerfed a core trait, based on someone streaming Golem damage BEFORE ITS EVEN BEEN RELEASED!

Got to love Anet sometimes <3

If this is true, this is tragic, really tragic. So they are nerfing the trait based on the dmg it was doing in a random stream, to a target Golem? Wow.

I was excited to finally see some pvp diversity with mesmer builds with the MtD changes, fed up of 1 standard power shatter build being the only thing viable.

Dont nerf a trait that will encourage build diversity/ different tpvp compositions before its even been released. That’s bordering kittened.

hang on, beserker amulet has lost its vitality stats? So now they replace with marauder?

And i also agree that the ‘customisation of pvp stats’ sucks in this game. Giving no build diversity and turning everyone into robots with the same robot builds.

Thats why the ‘meta’ is so more prominent in this game than any other.

ok thanks…../sad face

I know the new specialisations hit live tomorrow, and i, like many other mesmers are excited to see how this affects/enhances this amazing class. Hopfully we get more than 1 viable pvp build!!!

Quick question….will we get Chronomancer spec tomorrow? Or will that not come till HOT exp release?

Any ‘glow’ effects, eg torch, Fires of Balthazar Skin etc are only visible for the player wearing it.

However, the prestige/stealth torch skill, when you reveal ( but have more stealth duration stacked) anyone can see the ‘blast’ animation, even if you are not revealed/still in stealth.

So basically dont worry about any glow effects making the ground/area around you glow when you are in stealth. It is only animations/skill effects that are visible while in stealth.

People are over reacting with the IP Grandmaster as base now. I’ve always said, ever since i started playing shatter, that being able to shatter ourselves should have been a standard mesmer mechanic from min 1 of the game.

From someone who only plays shatter builds, it almost is baseline really, i hardly play without, regardless if i’m some hybrid/power or condition.

It’s a logical ‘tidy up’ to the mesmer mechanics, and while it will be nice to not have to waste a GM trait for it, i dont think it will be game breaking.

People should worry about the blind spams on shatters, on top of being able to daze/cause slow/deal dmg/remove condis/boon strip.

Shatter mesmers got a very DECENT buff, but NOT from making I P baseline.

Totally agree. Pugquest seems like a great idea for people to test their personal skill in a tournament setting, If they dont have a team/wanting to find a team mate its a good platform to use, and can only be a positive thing.

Tournament experience is getting more standard now, and another one can only be a positive contribution to the pvp community.

This a sad thread. I feel for you Tayln. I regard myself as fairly competent in pvp but even i find solo queue just a nightmare now.

90% of the time you come up against a premade of some sorts. Now for someone who usually queues with a team, i leave often thinking; “if i was with my team we would have won that, or at the very least given them a game”.

Buffing or nerfing MMR’s just so you get a queue pop is ridiculous. I cannot believe ANET actually thought that would be a good idea. If you asked people, i bet 99% would say they would rather wait in a queue another 3-5 mins than get a quicker queue pop, with an inflated mmr only to face a tryhard premade, who clearly have a strategic/coordination advantage regardless of individual skill. This is before we get onto the 6 min queues with NOTHING TO DO!!!!!!!

And from the other angle, i HATE queueing as a part-premade….eg 3-4. The pug you get, ends up not being on the same wave length/ skill level and it’s just frustrating for both parties. None of us asked for this.

You simply cannot have premades v pugs and still expect a competitive environment.

You are not the only one and sure wont be the last to cry over the state of pvp queueing right now.

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A 2v2/ 3V3 mode. So people who want to play with a buddy or do not have their full team online, can still play in a competitive environment, where you know the only thing that will matter is skill, not whether the team has been together for 2 years, and using ts, fighting a bunch of randomers who have 0 synergy. Keep conquest 5/5, but dont force smaller groups to play it if it means they will face a premade.