Guild Wars 2

cephiroth.6182:

Liam McColgan.7689:

But when you still get devs saying “i don’t understand why people hate 50/50 mmr IN A PIP GRIND SYSTEM THAT RELIES ON 3 GAME WIN STREAKS”

The point is that he never reffered to the pip system, you just read it in that context (and thus had to edit it into his quote). The 50/50 is not bad in itself, only when combined with the pip system and progress only possible through streaks. Now that progress is independent of 50/50 it is no longer an issue.

Absolutely. I clearly miss placed my quotation marks :P.

But it took 4 seasons, nearly a whole year of people moaning and quitting the pvp scene for them to realise it was just not fun for people out side of tryharding with full premades.

The Glicko is indeed a good system and realistically thats all people ever want; competitive match making where they feel, with enough trying, the can come out of any match with a win, which is why a 50/50 mmr system is good. But to use it for 4 season in conjunction with a pip grinding system and relying on multiple win streaks for any progression, regardless of tier, and to STILL say, i dont get why people hated it……i guess it triggered me.

Look dude, i’m always appreciative of things that deserve praise. I’ve constantly stated how amazing this game is and its combat mechanics. It’s the best out there by far.

But when you still get devs saying “i don’t understand why people hate 50/50 mmr IN A PIP GRIND SYSTEM THAT RELIES ON 3 GAME WIN STREAKS”, despite many people telling otherwise, that is quit worrying.

Of course people appreciate devs telling their customers/the community updates or answering specific questions.

I’l even take this opportunity to say to Evan, i think the up coming changes are very positive and i fully approve of what you guys are trying to make better in S5 despite me not really caring, or enjoying pvp in this game as much anymore.

But when countless people are telling Anet why the 50/50 mmr was not making pip grinding fun, after all fun is the ultimate goal, and the fact they are even accepting this to an extent with the S5 changes, and it’s taken to Season 5 ( kitten happens in real life, sadly not everyone can stay in this bubble of being committed to gw2 all the time) then, you know….criticism is sometimes warranted. Deal with it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

I honestly do not know why people think 50/50 matchmaking is a bad thing. My best guess is that people just want want something to blame when they lose.

Are you serious?

How about maybe because you(Anet) created a grind based pip ladder system where a 50/50 mmr system is totally counter productive to how you are supposed to achieve progression.

And when the losses that prevent progression and ultimately win streaks, are kittened up by preamades v soloers, or afkers, or AN MMR SYSTEM PURPOSEFULLY TRYING TO PRVENT YOU FROM WINNING MORE THAN ONCE AT A TIME, it’s very frustrating.

It’s very easy to say, “well skill will prevail, if you are better than your mmr you will still win games” but it should not be a case if me, premade queueing causally for 3 seasons, getting legendary, then doing solo for 1 season and not getting above ruby IN THE SAME TIME FRAME (we all have irl and cannot grind 50/50), because its a constant win, loss, win, loss, win, win, loss, win, loss etc etc caused by other factors that are not skill based.

Sorry if i sound condescending or passive aggressive but i am amazing that Anet staff haven’t realised this already from the countless threads from people stating how your mmr system is totally counter to having a 3- win streak to get any meaningful progression (win streak extra pip ).

Finally, having a binary progression system where you either, get a pip, or you lose a pip is a really poor reflection of how pvp games are played out. No incentive for players who came close v a premade, or had a ‘gg’ (480-500), or a team who won comfortably v a team they should not have had a chance.

A proper mmr ladder where only win % and player/team rank matters is what is needed. We had it for the first 2 years, it meant something, then you got rid of it and replaced it with this pip grinding Well done for bringing it back, sort of.

Yes, mesmer.

The mesmer i fell in love with 3 years ago, and subsequently made my main for pvp, and wvw died when season 1 started.

It used to take a lot of skill running around as zerker mesmer, co-ordination bursts, knowing how to use every bit of the map to your advantage so you dont get 2 shot, and fighting thieves took alot of skill and class know-how.

Now (even more so in s1-3) you just run around on a point, spamming shatters, invuns, evades etc. There is so much room for kittening up, basically.

Signet of illusions now means you dont have to think, or care about how you use your shatters, it’s just a case of spam them, unload condis, use signet, rinse and repeat.

It’s boring, killed what i loved about the class (nuke or be nuked attitude) and whats worse, its now prevalent in wvw. Every kittening roamer is condi, and they think they are special because no on can 1v1 them without perma resistance.

I don’t even feel a sense of self accomplishment anymore when i win 1v1s or run into a point and condi bomb.

Shame on you Anet, for killing the class and most importantly, the PLAYING STYLE i loved for so long.

I have to agree. I have got to legendary pretty comfortably in every season so far, but this season, after a few days grinding, 1 game i get clearly past legendary players, the next someone who openly admits they never even played their class before and its just NOT FUN, or i gt 3 of my team amtes running around 3v1ing with no brain cells in opration.

This game is just not fun anymore. Like others have said, how can i get to legendary so easy (20+ win streaks) yet this season i can hardly get out of 1 div/tier. It’s just blindingly obvious and frustrating that what ever mmr system is in place is so volatile from game to game, unless you get win streaks, or team queue, your time pvping in this game is just a grind fest of frustration.

I hardly bother now. So sad, i have so much love for this game and its amazing combat mechanics, but this horrendous pip/mmr grind system just kills any fun, and creates a toxic community, and to be honest myself being toxic.

Well done Anet, 4 seasons in and you are STILL no way close to revitalising your pvp scene imo.

I get 0 pips for losing v ESL players by 10 points, yet i get 1 pip for beating pve heroes 500-0!?

You have a team rating system for the guild challenge but a pip grind system for non guild….why?

There is no rational way of differentiating a good pip gain from a bad pip gain, any effort you put in, how much you carried, or how close the game was…a pip is still a pip……please explain this logic…

Rofl people are still saying certain condi builds requ more skill than power? xD Other than maybe condi engi, condi excels (yes i’m including hybrid) over power almost all the time.

People forget, when you switch condi in any class, you still have the same defensive cds/ blocks dodges etc, as you would playing Beserker, except now you have more passive fears, cc etc/ defensive stats, most likely toughness and/ or vitality.

Mesmer is the prime example. They run the 3 most defensive /supportive trait lines, which would be useless with marauder because you dont have the raw damage /sustain.

By playing condi or some hybrid, you can simply stack up (SPAM) your shatters then allow your trait lines to support you/ keep you alive while your are STILL producing damage and most importantly, pressure on your opponents.

On top of defensive buffs such as Protection, retaliation and last stand/earth armour/ stone signet etc not affecting condition damage which has already been applied or from being applies, the braindead option is clearly to run condition in some form. The trade off in skill and reward favours reward too much with these builds.

Are condition builds breaking the game? No. Are they prominent to a point that people really get put off by pvp and the meta because those 3-4 condi builds are the most common, and therefore the most defining on the game’s meta and over all enjoyment? Yes.

The worst thing is going into unranked for some fun, and seeing EVERY GAME some tryhard condi chrono shatter mesmer still playing that dumb kittening build and acting like they have skill. It makes me sick….in unranked?

So, as you all know, now there is no real motivation to get to legendary and prestige in it because there are no extra rewards (title and legendary back piece are trivial now).

My question is, what do you think would keep you, and the pvp player base, playing after reaching legendary? It is no longer a determination of skill, because of the face roll meta builds, and because, after enough grinding, an average player who is competent in said builds will get to it, regardless of their MMR or win/loss ratio.

Regardless of what you think of the state of the pvp meta or balance issues as a whole, because there are a lot, most people play PvP in any game for 3 things; the challenge, prestige and enjoyment.

Personally, i would like to see these things implemented/ at least enquired about by Anet:

- More titles (extend the champion class titles to 500 and 1k+wins) as time had diminished these considerably.

- exclusive skins ( have a set per 10x prestige or have a part of a set obtainable when you hit a certain level. After all the tangible assets in this game, especially pvp, are not gear stats, but skins. This would help with differentiation across the game of those people who get exclusive skins only by earning them through being good in 1 aspect of this game).

- exclusive finishers (again like the previous suggestion its a nice cosmetic exclusive across all game modes)

- external and internal leaderboard of both your ladder rank and win/loss as well as guild challenger top 50 (this was already a feature a while ago and i’m not sure why Anet ended it. We had one for both solo and team ranked and it was nice to check up on yours and others progressions on the lb.

None of these fix the pvp balance and meta issues but they are easy fixes to keep the player base playing all the way through a 3 month season. ps. Try keep it constructive :P

I’m a big critic of Anet, because this game showed, and can still show so much potential. It has probably the best mechanical and combat play of any MMO but the constant failings on pvp balance, and lack of it, has slowly ruined it over the years.

This meta however, is the best so far post HOT. I feel like anyone can be burst down if switch focused. Ele only has 13k hp despite keeping all it’s aoe support, Rev’s actually have to think about their burst rotations now rather than spamming AA, engi’s are still very strong and ‘tanky’ but they are forced to play marauder now so a good focus switch does harm them. Mesmer too, while moa+portal is still ridiculously strong in the hands of a good player, they have lost their toughness so again, can be switch focused quite well if you track their cd’s. Warr finally have a top tier build. Finally, it looks like DH and thief are slowly creeping into the meta, however i feel thief is still weak unless you know exactly how to play it.

I’m also a fan of the QOL changes. The aoe ground target for skills are clearer, the HP bars are cleaner etc etc.

So yeh, thumbs up from me Anet but still along way to go if this game is ever going to reach its full potential……

ps. Make power shatter mes meta again, fix boon corrupt, and giv us MORE VIABLE BUILDS per class god kitten it.

Oh forgive us for actually having to start the grind SOMEWHERE!? lol

Everyone has to grind, no matter what past exp/skill.

I find it the other way round. Where you are annoyed at us being in YOUR division, im annoyed i have to put up with idiots who cannot rotate/know class roles, until i hit upper divisions.

It’s not your fault, it’s the mmr but i only just got to ruby last night thanks to a 6 win streak after having bad matches due to clear sapphire scrubs hehe

Haha, i love your honesty. You must really enjoy this game despite that w/l. But in all seriousness, you probably should change class to suit carrying in solo queue, or seek top tier advice. If that fails, seek medical advice. You probably have some sort of addiction syndrome to things that are bad for your health haha

the problem is, regardless of how good you are, there will always be issues. so far in around 15 games, ive won 11 of them, but because there has been quite a few win, loss, win, loss you feel like your pip progression is really slow.

i’ve got to tier 2x prestige in legendary in past 2 seasons despite not playing much, because i farmed as a team when i played, but still, even at the start i feel like i’m put with people who are clueless.

I basically have to get lucky with team comp, try really really hard and hope i have 1-2 other team mates who do enough to help carry also, or its a loss.

There is always some idiot who says, “50/50 w/l? thats your skill cap” which, after only this many days, is bullkitten.

I feel the meta is alot more enjoyable, especially because i’m playing warr again and not cheese mode mesmer, but there still lies the problem of needing big, and multiple win streaks to see any progression, and in solo queue, when you get dc’s, afks, people who are clearly an anomalies, it can feel frustrating.

Sadly, unless you are a god + luck, you wont see much progression any time soon in solo ranked. As soon as you triple+ queue, it’s just kitten easy to farm big win streaks, and there lies the problem for more casual players.

People get demotivated really really quickly when 2 straight losses totally mess up an hour of good pip grinding, and thats the flaw in this system. Relying on 4 other players to have a brain, despite the mmr system sorting that for you, still feels like pulling straws and hoping for the long ones.

100% Agree with everything OP has said. World of Warcraft went through a similar thing and it killed their population base. From what i hear, they completely removed trait lines so people could no longer rally theory craft and personalise traits, depending on their play style. Instead the dumbed it down so people has easier choices, effectively telling people what and how to play.

I feel, since last Junes patch, every trait line is just too flipping obvious in terms of what trait to pick. I miss theory crafting, coming up with builds, mixing and matching rune stats etc. Add that to an indispensable elite spec on every class, bingo, diversity is out the window.

People, people. do NOT blame metabattle. Metabattle is just a hub for builds that are a)most popular, b) found to be strong/ top tier in either game mode. People are not forced into playing only 1 build because of metabattle….thats Anets fault.

I’ve said it a few time and i’ll say it again. It was the dumbing down of traits patch, last June, the one before HOT, that killed build diversity in this game.

We went from 6 different options per Trait advancement (Adept, GM, major etc) to just 3, so the choice of 1/3 for the best trait is much more obvious compared to 1/6, meaning less diversity and chance to theory craft.

The addition of elite specs has also killed diversity. I think people are really annoyed that ANET told us elite specs would not be indispensable, but on par with current trait lines, merely providing a new play style etc. This is nonsense. Every elite spec enhances the class so much they are imperative. This, again, has dumbed down our diversity options, because we now have one trait line that everyone must take to remain competitive and for most classes, that elite spec defines how the class is played; (power hammer on scrapper, tempest is clearly support, druid is clearly support etc)

It’s just sad there are 6 trait lines per class, yet only 3 are every used. There is no more surprises, adaptation, play style adjustments etc, just 5 – 6 viable classes with 6 viable builds. This is NOT diversity.

“Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?”

Look, i think every pure, old school mesmer players just wants power shatter to be viable. It’s what the mesmer was made to do. It’s the most fun, highest skill capped, and utilises what is best about mesmer; mobility, burst, dictation of games via +1ing,

I’m fed up of this stupid condi bunker bull crap we are forced into.

Right now a mesmer is only good for moa + portal. And because of the meta, the build we are forced to play in order to carry out said moas + portals, is the one with the most survivability, and sustain; condi chrono.

I miss the old days where you were no 1 target because people knew a good power shatter mesmer would destroy anyone, anywhere on the map he wanted, if left to free cast.

yanoch.7051:

Liam McColgan.7689:

I agree. Once again ANet has no clue how to balance. This is not balance.

Moa has a 180 sec CD for a reason. It’s a strong, game changing skill, like an an elite should be…

/facepalm

Here come the mesmer who Moa me from Rampage… my strong game changing elite skill on incredibly long cooldown.

Nah Rampage is not game changing… :P Still it’s a good nerf to Moa and could be nerfed further more IMO.

haha i agree, moa should not get rid of elite transformations

I think it’s an interesting idea, but adding more boon spam, and thus anet will eventually counter it with more boon corruption and condis to counter it. This would work if ant could balance properly but i feel this would just add to more spam.

If you had to THINK or ration when you use certain boons, yes this would be good, but right now you just spam spam so it only adds to the cluster kitten of boons

I agree. Once again ANet has no clue how to balance. This is not balance.

Moa has a 180 sec CD for a reason. It’s a strong, game changing skill, like an an elite should be. Nerfing the moa signet itself is not balance. That hurts EVERY OTHER BUILD that would want to use it (outside of Chronomancer).

It’s blindingly obvious it was the fact you could half the cd via CS, which only chrono has access to which made it op. So, logic says you just nerf it through CS, not the actually skill.

Also, it can be dodged and block, on top of the fact its pretty obvious when MOA was being casted due to the mesmer using CS pre-cast.

So rather than ANET saying, “L2P, thats the reason we have dodge, block mechanics, so you can counter play. MOA is a strong skill and you should be rewarded for using it (because lets face it, its pretty avoidable 1v1, less so in team fights, but it is an elite).” They now say, “ok its too hard for people to use block, dodge mechanics, hence the whining on forums, let’s just nerf the duration so you can double dodge, skill 5 through it because you failed to use your eyes and l2 dodge the cast.”

/facepalm

yeh cc takes no skill now ( calling cc target on a prime resser, or ccing a healer etc) because every class has access to about 10000 x cc, and every class has access to about 10000x stun removal.

Add that the the constant stability changes they keep making….its just a spam fest on point of daze, stun, daze, passive fear proc, taunt, more dazes, anothr aoe daze……blah blah blah.

I miss WoW where you have limited cc, all on internal cd’s so you actually have to co-ordinate cc and not waste your primary cc breaker. And WoW is not even skillful

Fivedawgs.4267:

My god, when is whining going to stop, before ranked started we had unranked for almost 3 months!!! I agree with your post on ranks and all, but unranked can also be that competitve. And as it stand, unranked is more competitve than ranked, let’s mot forget the X VS X. Unless they fix it, ranked is just another hot join, imo.

And also disabling ranked after the patch is a GREAT IDEA. For the lie of me, I can’t seems to undertsand why most folks think people are going to take their game seriously after the patch? Such as not trying a build, or not bulls hiring diamond/ruby/saphiree/ emeralds trying to move up a rank/division. Everyone is assuming that their opponent trying a build in ranked is an impossibility.

Enabling ranked after a patch is a Bad Idea.

lol

Dariya.9380:

What irks me the most is that ArenaNet is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the Pro League, which supposedly is a marketing approach in itself to bring in more people into PvP, yet not lifting a finger to make PvP better and not stale, aside from the recent map changes which has been overdue for years.

Yup. Judging by other posts on this forum, i’m not the only one who is fed up of 1 month of stale pvp with no ‘competitive’ mmr system, pvers doing dailies, 4x thief on 1 team, and afkers.

ANET, is it really that hard to just keep ranked going but only solo play affects an external leaderboard?

It doesn’t affect league seasons, it doesn’t affect guild challenger, it doesn’t affect pip or back piece progression.

It is simply there for people who want to have fun( and my fun i mean competitive matches).

Wouldnt you want to try everything in your power to KEEP the player base you build up over the seasons, playing your game!?

Yeh it’s totally garbage. Every other mmo/pvp game has an online and/or in game ladder system where the community can see their mmrs/ win +loss and rank in comparison to others. They FINALLY release leagues, and what do we get?….

A half kitten d job of a leaderboard. where you can only se top 10, who is top of legendary or who is above or below your team.

I know Programmers who would and can create a 10x better, more informative board system than what they implemented.

Jaxom.7310:

Liam McColgan.7689:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Jaxom.7310:

i like the time off. lots of other things in the game i still want to do, so its nice to not feel like i HAVE to queue up

This, god it seems that some people forget this is an actual mmorpg and not some kind of PvP only game. And it’s funny cause in fact the majority of the player population, at any time, is not playing PvP.

So, your point is…..what?

Even if only 5% play pvp, its Anet who are pushing this ‘esports’ dream, but without a pvp population, it just doesnt happen. And for a whole month the population decreases, with the likely hood of even more people not coming back a month later.

This, is like me going to the Wvw forums and saying to the people who care about their BL .." Stop complaining how bad desert BL is, you have pvp and raids now so you cannot complain".

I’m not saying everyone will agree with me, but your argument on the assumption of ’ go do something else because pvp is so small in this game’ is silly.

SNIP

Yeh i get your point. But i think you misunderstand me.

Seasons are fine the way they are set up. They are the daddy of pvp.

What i’m saying is, why cant, like a couple of years ago, just keep a SEPARATE leaderboard going for solo queueing ranked. It used to happen.

It doesn’t have to have rewards or anything, so you feel like you, personally have to grind it. It’s for people like me, who really only play this game for the amazing pvp mechanics, to at least have some competitive play during the off-season.
It wouldn’t change anything to do with seasons, just simply keep the competitive, pure pvp, community alive for a month because, you may find this hard to believe’ but some people do care about wins/losses, and personal rankings.

DO you ever consider that ALOT of people who play gw2, ONLY do either pvp, pve, or wvw?

XxsdgxX.8109:

Jaxom.7310:

i like the time off. lots of other things in the game i still want to do, so its nice to not feel like i HAVE to queue up

This, god it seems that some people forget this is an actual mmorpg and not some kind of PvP only game. And it’s funny cause in fact the majority of the player population, at any time, is not playing PvP.

So, your point is…..what?

Even if only 5% play pvp, its Anet who are pushing this ‘esports’ dream, but without a pvp population, it just doesnt happen. And for a whole month the population decreases, with the likely hood of even more people not coming back a month later.

This, is like me going to the Wvw forums and saying to the people who care about their BL .." Stop complaining how bad desert BL is, you have pvp and raids now so you cannot complain".

I’m not saying everyone will agree with me, but your argument on the assumption of ’ go do something else because pvp is so small in this game’ is silly.

You wonder why the pvp community is dwindling ANET….

Having a month of unranked, which has no mmr system what so ever is killing your game.

The fact that the seasons were not even competitive either is another issue all together. But having blow outs every game, and being paired with pve people doing dailies in unranked is a shoddy way of making a customer get his pvp fix.

It makes me not want to log on anymore or even enjoy this game.

Wvw is my only fun now because of my servers amazing community, but pvp wise, you have no idea how to manage a pvp system/game.

How hard is it to just keep SOLO QUEUE LEADERBOARD going along with a proper solo mmr system for me to enjoy this game.

People would stream more, care more because you can see your rank and w/l on a website, and it would create a small, but big enough ‘carrot on a stick’ philosophy.

Don’t you get it? People don’t get on with their lives for a month, then log back on because OMG Season 3 HYPEEEE.

Hence why each season that goes by has less and less interest. For an MMO to be successful you need 2 things. A community and a passion to want to spend your own precious spare time in life to log on and play THIS specific game over all other games/things to do.

People may or may not agree with me but it’s sad to see.

/discuss

Rofl, wtf is wrong with this Musu guy? All you did was state something and he’s losing his mind. Did you send him some bad salt at one time or something, Random?

I’ve yet to see one other person say mesmer got anything but buffed. I’m very surprised they didn’t fix double moa, or give power shatter some help. Mesmers will still be T1 and condi in season 3 just because of moa + portal.

Why are people even crying over this? I’ve met some very nice people by buying SAB trib boss tokens y’day evening.

It’s nice to see people helping others out in getting what they want in the game they paid for, no issues with payment, and people seem really grateful.

I get that it turns the only non monetary valued items (trib skins) into buyable, tangible, items for more people, but its only for a few weeks of the year, and ive been waiting for 2 years for these skins!

Like the dev said, its the same as paying for boss kills in Arah or FOTM etc.

If you feel people are cheating thr system, and you don’t do the same, i’m sorry you only have yourself to blame.

It’s like playing Warrior in pvp right now, only to lose, but then complain because you didnt do the correct thing, and re-roll

Lordrosicky.5813:

Josh Davis.6015:

Agemnon.4608:

Snip.

RE: DotaCoach -> that’s a pretty slick website – thanks for sending it over. I’ve seen some initiatives like this run on our forums in the past. I’ll mull it over and see if there’s something a bit more structured we could do.

RE: Balance -> Contrary to popular belief, the PvP team (or wvw, fractals, raids, etc) doesn’t actually handle profession balance. There’s an entirely separate team dedicated to handling balance for all core areas of the game (appropriately named the Balance team). The PvP team (and the other aforementioned teams and more) gives regular feedback on balance issues, but the balance team is ultimately in charge of maintaining the design vision across the game.

For reference, the PvP team is focused on infrastructure -> PvP Leagues and maps, for example.

Re: visibility -> agreed!

Edit: heading home for the evening. Will check back tomorrow.

The pvp team have released no new “competitive” maps since October 2012 btw. Worth remembering the facts

I agree. First time i saw the title i was like, wtf. It has no prestige, pvp asociation or anything. It’s like there was zero thought put into it. It’s terrible. It doesn’t even sound ‘cool’ at the very least.

And while the DEVS are reading this……

Update the class titles already!? It’s been like 3 years and still you have one title for only 150 wins. At least do one for 500 and 1k ranked games won.

Time has diminished these titles worthless. I don’t want to have the same title, having won over 2k games on 1 class, as the next guy who just hit the 150.

Xillllix.3485:

The new trait system is what destroyed balance and the reason I left the game.

This.

Before Cele was removed, i discussed it in threads before but i firmly believe the dumbing down and lack of trait diversity is what killed pvp. I’l leave this here :-

“I think another route cause to all this imbalance is they way they dumbed down all the pvp stats and trait lines.

There is simply no room for experimenting. Because there are only 3 traits per trait-line now, there is a much bigger chance of x being obvious pick over y, and z. rather than having 5(or was it 6) different options. Most classes are now tunnel visioned into 1-2 builds with little room to customise. This has massively contributed to how ‘meta’ forced this game is.

With less diversity in your playing style options, the less people are going to experiment and create their own builds/styles of play. Now, with Elite specs, that has turned your 6 optional trait specs into 5, because the Elites are pretty much a must. Again, just dumbs down everything and forces people to stay in certain meta builds due to lack of diversity in traits or stats. What’s the point in 6 trait specs when only MAXIMUM 2 builds are viable from those 6 specs on any class.

Secondly, as was stated above in this post, pvp stats are also dumbed down.
Before, when you could mix and match runes, there was greater flexibility of what stats you wanted. I feel amulets are far too simplistic….forcing everyone to play, pure bunker, pure dps (condi or power).

Not only is there no ‘trinity’ in this game….it’s worse, there is now only 2 viable options. Unfortunately, because of how amulets and runes are balanced, the trade offs between survivability, damage and skill are too greatly favoured towards survivability.
If there are only 2 builds to choose from, bunker or pure dps, and the aim of GW2 PvP is conquest…shock, you get a constant bunker meta.

Every day i wish i could theory craft random, exciting builds for my classes, like the old days. Mix and match runes, stats depending on what traits…. but you cannot. There is no trait diversity now, and all the trait lines are too forced towards certain traits, especially with the elite spec now being imperative instead of optional.
Basically, it’s too easy to find the optimal meta build for any class now because of the lack of any real stat/trait customisations."

Sort your game out..this has happened 5+ times over this evening for my team. It’s so annoying. full team dc with error and then stuck in match without being in it.

Can’t queue for 5 mins until it expires.

looool ^^. Well i still cannot join any unranked game because of never ending loading screen.

At least i know it’s not just me or my connection

I also get kicked out of any game and queue as if i never queued, despite 10 people accepting and choosing a map.

Hotjoin seems unaffected.

Time is 19:49 GMT. Not sure if this part of the forum is the right place, but anyone having issues with loading screens for pvp matches?

Twice now i’ve tried to play an unranked game, but the loading screen for the map/server just stays there and then i get an error, then my client restarts….

MAN.9046:

highlights
/15blyat

Bahaha!

Remember for 1 month when everyone cried about the power creep, how mesmers and thieves could 1 shot. How power engi could 1 shot (not literally)?

Well they soon nerfed all that, and this is what you get. Mesmers forced into being bunkers because of all the conditions and sustain around, and thieves forced out.

What were ANET thinking!?

I’m sure their idea of this game was to not have *GUARD*ians as longbow dps spammers, yet mesmer and ele, the 2 traditional magical dps, forced into being guardians.

And to top it off….Thief and Warrior, the epitome, the bread and butter, of any MMO…don’t have any space or love in this game in terms of pvp. Sad.

This is an interesting issue.

I think another route cause to all this imbalance is they way they dumbed down all the pvp stats and trait lines.

There is simply no room for experimenting. Because there are only 3 traits per trait-line now, there is a much bigger chance of x being obvious pick over y, and z. rather than having 5(or was it 6) different options. Most classes are now tunnel visioned into 1-2 builds with little room to customise. This has massively contributed to how ‘meta’ forced this game is.
With less diversity in your playing style options, the less people are going to experiment and create their own builds/styles of play. Now, with Elite specs, that has turned your 6 optional trait specs into 5, because the Elites are pretty much a must. Again, just dumbs down everything and forces people to stay in certain meta builds due to lack of diversity in traits or stats.

what’s the point in 6 trait specs when only MAXIMUM 2 builds are viable from those 6 specs on any class.

Secondly, as was stated above in this post, pvp stats are also dumbed down.

Before, when you could mix and match runes, there was greater flexibility of what stats you wanted. I feel amulets are far too simplistic….forcing everyone to play, pure bunker, pure dps (condi or power).

Not only is there no ‘trinity’ in this game….it’s worse, there is now only 2 viable options. Unfortunately, because of how amulets and runes are balanced, the trade offs between survivability, damage and skill are too greatly favoured towards survivability.

If there are only 2 builds to choose from, bunker or pure dps, and the aim of GW2 PvP is conquest…shock, you get a constant bunker meta.

Every day i wish i could theory craft random, exciting builds for my classes, like the old days. Mix and match runes, stats depending on what traits…. but you cannot. There is no trait diversity now, and all the trait lines are too forced towards certain traits, especially with the elite spec now being imperative instead of optional.

Basically, it’s too easy to find the optimal meta build for any class now because of the lack of any real stat/trait customisations.

#EEEEEEspuurrrtsss

clearly he felt you should have 500-0 those guys. Slackers!

I don’t really rate you , Leeto, however, this was a interesting post/experiment, and your digs at ‘Car Trash’ was amusing too.

Kudos to you for getting to legendary.

Mysticjedi.6053:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They used to have separate q’s. And people kittened.

Now they don’t have separate q’s. And people continue to kitten.

Honestly, wtf do you expect them to do? Either route they go someone is going to be unhappy. There is only so much they can do to compensate.

I don’t remember people complaining too much. I do remember a lot of people scratching their heads and being outraged when soloq was removed. I don’t remember a single person, beside Anet, saying removing soloq was a good thing.

Yeh im not sure what LanfearShadowflame.3189 is referring to. I completely agree, there was a way bigger issue about the removal of solo queue, than there ever was when it existed.

@ LanfearShadowflame.3189

Since when did people complain about having a separate solo and premade queue? I’ve played this game for over 3 years now and from what i can remember, people only complained about the balance in solo queues, not the fact there was them. I think most veteran players would agree the original solo queue was 100x better at determining skill than the current system. Despite it having flaws.

And even if they did, when ANET announced there would be only 1 queue, there were tons of posts saying it was a bad idea, and there have been tons since.

Remember when they were going to put stronghold into the map rotation too, yet ANET actually listened to the community that time.

Saying there is ‘only so much they can do to compensate’ is not a basis for saying its fine. It’s not.
If the ‘lack of player base’ is the primary reason, then this game is kittened already.

In any competitive scene or sport, a bunch or randomers, regardless of how skilled, should not be facing a premade with all the communication, synergy, class pickings they can choose from. And especially not if the aim is to try and win consecutive pips to climb anywhere.

I’m talking about SOLO queuing…
I might be totally wrong, and i welcome any Dev to comment/help explain…buuuut…

1) Why create a league system which relies on winning pips, and consecutively, to climb said leagues when…..the mmr system is constantly trying to put you into 50/50 match-ups?

If your win ratio is 50/50 (regardless if you had a 70% win ratio at the start and pushed to say, ruby or diamond) how are you expected to get 5 pips to climb a division when your mmr system actively tries to prevent this?

2) If this isn’t hard enough. Arena Net then decide to put solo queuers and duo queuers up against 4-5 man premades (ts or no ts).
EVEN WORSE, they try to compensate by messing about with the mmr system even more to ‘make up’ for the fact you are not a premade. You then lose, 2 pips gone, sad day. But you were supposed to win!? Because the mmr system put the player with higher ranked people to ‘compensate for facing a premade’. Despite them having no syenergy, pre match class comp setups, team speak etc.

3) If this couldn’t get any worse. The high ranked players are now starting to queue with low ranked just to force easier match-ups and carry on farming the poor yoloqueuers.

Basically Arena Net are saying, unless you have unlimited hours to play, or unless you make premades and tryhard the queues, you have no right to be in diamond/legendary regardless of skill.

I’m not saying every Tom, kitten, and Harry should get Diamond/legendary in the short period of time, but if you didnt want solo queuers to be handy capped and you wanted to give them as much of a chance of skill prevailing over premades, why DONT YOU HAVE SEPARATE kittenING QUEUES?

This whole pvp meta is a mess. Just one big huge aoe, bunker kitten fest mess.

I dont think ANET intended for this. But their lack of experience, balance testing, and general knowledge of how a competitive MMO PvP should work is diabolical at best.

Their track record over the past 3 years speaks for itself to be honest.

The fact they did no balance before the leagues started, other than nerfing mesmers because thats what everyone whined about is just laughable.

I dont play thief or warrior, but i would be furious that they got no help what so ever, when it was obvious for weeks and weeks they were in a bad spot.

I always get the feeling that because this is not P2P, and there are no monthly subscriptions, they don’t feel accountable for having to put out regular balance patches/listen to what the people at the top, who actually are trying to push this game to ‘esports’, are saying.

vlad.4871:

Loosing 2 pips against this kittened exploiters.

Thats, kitten up. Clearly abusing the system.

However you might want to cover up your toxic rant in your team chat next time….tut tut.

It’s ok. We faced a full premade of (iv)+ tier , had a dc for like 3/4 of the game, and got put with a tier (ii) as one of our pugs (we were trio-queueing ( all ruby/diamond)).

Lost 2 pips for it…

The inc cast time to 0.75 (for a stun break) is total stupid.
Anet can you clarify the reason for this change? There is no logic in it. The fact Precog now prevents capture points (as well as procs Inspiring Distortion) alone makes it useless in PvP, so whats the point in the increased cast time?

I dont think you even know what you are nerfing.

The prevents capture point was needed, but your reasoning (because we, ANET, don’t like the current bunker meta) is kittened also.

You let Cele d/d eles (and to an extent engis) DEFINE the meta for nearly 2 years, to the point ESL teams ran 3+ eles just to stay competitive, yet because a couple of teams run double chornobunker you feel you need to HOTFIX them? You are a joke.

Have you ever considered the reason some mesmers switched to Chronobunker in the first place?

Mesmers were fed up of having to fight in a BUNKER META and with 0 condi removal, they were a weak link with all the condi revs/bunkers out there.

You have now also made every other chronomancer alternative build more useless because of this nerf too.

Love how you give mesmers the nerf bat just because they adapted to what was already a kittened bunker meta.

Anet never does logic. They dont know how to nerf. Every player and their mum could see Precog needed to prevent capture points, but your reasons for nerf (while d/d ele was god mode for 2+ years) shows what a pathetic balance team you have.

Why not HOTFIX warriors and thieves?

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

FLASH NEWS!!!

This just in: MMO Pug teams in PvP might not be effective or at the top level of player skill!

Who are you aiming this to? Because your post is totally irrelevant to anything the OP has stated.

I hear your frustration. Pvp is in a bad state design wise. As for balance wise, i think everyone needs to chill and let the meta set itself. All these nerf threads are just amateur.

Hotjoin is a mess;
Anet has given no love to fixing this issue and i dont think they ever will. It was designed to be a fun, relaxed place where you can learn the ropes of the game and your class in pvp…….it is anything but…..
-People coming to do dailies are always ready to team-swap to get carried.
-If you loose 1 fight, there is nothing stopping you from leaving/joining another game.
-Players constant ganking and +1ing (tryharding basically) in hotjoin (where people are there to LEARN the game/their class/their traits and skills) just gives an instant negative first hand experience to new comers.
-experienced players trolling hotjoins, verbally abusing others because hotjoin is serious business right….

‘structured’ pvp is a mess;
-Solo queuing, you should NOT be facing premades of 3 or more.
-no dedicated solo queue forces you to have to face premades where your chances of a fair match is significantly reduced. Anet have released their MMR system, and they claim it takes into account team size, but most players rarely see this helping them in their matchups. Yolo queue should be a 5v5 non premade skill based fun fest.
-forcing people to play unranked, because ranked/leagues are not up, is a big fail. Most people dont have the same MMR rating for unranked as they do ranked, so this also causes imbalanced match ups.
-Unranked is FULL of premades. If you queue with 2-3 you will face a full 5/5 premade using TS. If you queue solo, as stated above, you will probably not be with/against other solo queuers.

The sooner these leagues/seasons come out the better. Forget all the QQ about class balance, the real issue here is the pvp structure as whole in this game. It’s clearly designed to be like an arcade, adrenaline fun 10 mins, instead of focusing on getting some real structure, rewards and system that is anything like ESL, esports standard.

Everyone loves to watch these tournaments, with the same 4-8 teams, but this doesnt do anything for the other 99% of the pvp population when there is kitten all to do.

Just my 2 cents on how i see pvp right now.

First off, welcome to the game, and for choosing the most awesome, epci class GW2 has to offer :P.

Most mesmer builds rely on Deceptive Evasion, where you create a clone on a dodge while in combat. This helps alot when it comes to shatters (the more clones you have out, the more effective/powerful your shatter becomes) .

The ‘meta’ (strongest build) will change come tomorrow so cant say much right now. If you ever want help, and you are on EU, feel free to w/ me and il try and help in what way. I have mained mesmer for 3 years, and have over 5k tpvp wins on the class.