I agree with changes #1 & 2.
I think if those were the only changes made, then the offsetting reductions in #4&5 would not be needed.
I think we would end up with the same problem of scaling as we had before. And it wouldn’t help us any in terms of being CCed to death all the time.
I think it’s an amazing way to revamp necromancer. Not only it’ll help necromancer substain in small fight – 5v5 tpvp – but, also, it’ll actually reduce necromancer over the top tankiness in wvw zerg fight commonly referred as GWEN. Overall, they will be more balanced surviability wise in all gamemode without being overtop in one, and subpar in another.
Now the question is: Do they ever care?
They do care. There are a few problems though. Arena Net has a tone on its plate already so asking for something so major wouldn’t be ideal for them. Another problem is that if they can find a simple fix then that would be preferable. The problem with the simple fixes is that it hasn’t worked for us in terms of balance since the necromancer’s debut in the pre release demos. The Death shroud mechanic is either too powerful or too underwhelming and often times its both in multiple situations because of its scaling.
We all know that the necromancer’s primary mechanic is broken. And balancing around it has been a nightmare for the devs, I’m sure. And fixing it wont be easy and chances are we need to have a major change to it. So here are my thoughts. Bear with me, this suggestion is a drastic change to death shroud and how players will be able to use it.
I’ll explain the changes I’m suggesting then I’ll talk on what other things would have to change in order to make it work properly. Remember that this is a huge suggestion, so please take the time to consider it before commenting.
Death Shroud:
- Healing: All heals should now effect your health pool while in death shroud. However, since you can’t take real damage in death shroud the heals you get will be reduced. By about 33%-50% depending on balance requirements.
- Life stealing: Life steal will work in death shroud but unlike normal healing, is 100% effective.
- Utility skills: While in death shroud you will be given access to your heal and utility skills. This may or may not include the elite. If it did include the elite, entering plague form or Lich form would drop you out of death shroud.
- Spectral skills: These skills will be the only skills that change while in death shroud. Because they generate life force most the time, when your death shroud is active their effect might have a different effect.
- Reduce the pool of death shroud with these changes: With these changes we would be way too powerful with our current death shroud. So we need something to offset these changes in order to make it fair. Right now, at level 80 with no investment in Soul Reaping, we have about 11k in death shroud. While we normally have about 18k health. About an extra 60% to our life. So this will need to be drastically lowered in order to make up for the changes above. It’ll still scale up with your health but not quite as much. Making it about 33% of your life total will let you have a burst of defense while healing. To add to that, a change to soul reaping would be needed. Rather then scaling 30% in total, this might need to be increased. How much depends. My thoughts are 60% at full.
With these changes the necromancer will be able to do things it otherwise wouldn’t be able to do. its ability to support allies will increase greatly. Being able to take Plague signet on a build with the blood magic trait that transfers conditions would be one example of superior condition control. Running over to an ally with shroud up and popping a well over them to blind or convert conditions without having to leave your defenses. Or maybe even using a few wells while using Deathly Perception.
I believe these changes will greatly improve our attrition abilities. Some traits would have to be changed in order to better suit these changes. Such as Unholy Sanctuary which would become redundant. However, having this increase the healing we receive along with its auto casting on near death could be an decent alternative.
Do note, that this is just a suggestion. My personal thoughts on how it should be changed after playing the necromancer for a few years. Leave your comments and try not to be too harsh.
I have a suggestion to help fix the necromancer’s problem. But it would take me about an hour to post it in detail. My suggestion wouldn’t be a small change though And I’ve avoided posting it because I have a feeling the feedback will be extremely negative for no justifiable reason.
Fixing Necromancer in many aspects is so kitten easy that I cannot believe they’re not doing anything. Just one of fast ideas, how to give Necromancer utility in PvE:
Master of Corruption – This trait now also improves Corruption skills. However, it also inflicts random condition on user in addition to existing ones.
I.E:
Blood is Power – This skill now also gives Might to allies around the caster.
Corrosive Poison Cloud – This skill now also reflects all hostile projectiles casted within the area.
Corrupt Boon – This skill now corrupts all boons, but has it’s cast increased by 1/4 second.
Epidemic – Now is a Blast Finisher and cleanses 1 condition on allies within the area for every condition spreaded.
BAM!
That doesn’t even come close to fixing all our problems.
I’m not disappointed with the patch. Its more then I expected. But I didn’t expect much. I didn’t expect all the necromancers problems to be solved with this patch. And I doubt we will be fixed in the next patch, or the next one. We really need a major redesign of death shroud to really get were we need to go.
I’m happy with the patch. Not super excited but at least I don’t have to watch my teammates die anymore.
The necromancer needs a dervish style revamp. Honestly, we aren’t going to be seeing the changes we need for at least a year.
The only thing I took away from this was the ability to revive allies and finish enemies. And its about time this happened. Death shroud is ever so slightly less parasitic then it was before. Still a very parasitic ability.
I mean, two guardians in a lupi run did 1.5 million damage in 2.8 seconds (yes it was abusing reflects), so 25k damage over 84 seconds isn’t particularly amazing.
Anyway, Condi Necro is fine for soloing, but your DPS just won’t compare in any kind of group setting unless your group is very… “special”.
special as in not a single one of them has a trait that applies one of your damage conditions?
While I believe scepter should get some form of a condition on auto, it should NOT be torment. Torment is simply too strong to apply like free candy and it will cover the one weakness a PU mes has: to be able to run away from the fight.
how will it do that? its weaker then the staff.
- ANTI-TORMENT Prismatic Understanding (PU) condition Mesmers will become stupidly overpowered and easy to play (“cancerous” to the game). Auto-attacks should not be so powerful.
I would like to respond to this specifically. This is mathematically incorrect. If you are using the scepter clones over the staff clones then you are suffering around a 25% damage reduction. Give or take. And that is in the most ideal situation you can get with the clones.
people are saying that it’ll be way too strong but the math says that its much weaker then staff AA.
The disconnect is in the nature of GW2 gameplay. The combat now is not only more mobile and action-oriented, but it’s also designed for ranged to be at a disadvantage in combat. Not to mention the healing and tank part of the “healing/support/tank” niche that Rits filled in GW1 is gone.
Yes, this is true to an extent. However I don’t feel that much of what the ritualist did couldn’t be translated into a style more suited for GW2. The Engineer’s turrets have a few qualities that are shared with the ritualist’s spirits, but mostly its shared with their offensive spirits and not the defensive.
Most of the ritualist’s spirits didn’t heal. A good chunk of them dealt damage. But a good number of them provided a form of support much like Enchantments. But rather then stripping them, you had to kill the spirits to get them out of the way. This idea still exists in GW2 through the ranger spirits however they are far less sophisticated then the ritualist spirits of GW1. We don’t have turrets that act like Displacement, Shelter, or Union.
But even if the ritualist’s style had to completely change for GW2 in order to fill a role not yet in GW2 that isn’t one they filled in GW2. I’d actually be okay with that because the ritualist had a really cool visual appeal and interesting lore.
Think about it.
The Rit summoned spirits that were more or less human in appearance. In fact, the spirits were supposed to be ancestors whom the Rit communed with to help them in battle and such. They would have had to design spirit skins for each specific race in order to appease everyone. For one thing, that really wouldn’t work for the Sylvari…there’s not exactly a lot of them gone. For another, that doesn’t really jive well with racial belief systems.
At any rate, the Engi uses similar techniques now and is generally considered its “mechanical” inheritor.
The spirits the ritualist summoned were more aspects of some sort of feeling or emotion or idea. You had Anger, Wonderlust along with restoration. While the ranger spirits were more spirits of the seasons and elements, Ritualist spirits were different. And the only named spirits the Ritualist called on never actually had their own design. They were urns. Like Attuned Was Songkai. I don’t see why other races couldn’t call on the heroes from other races. Such as Jora or Pyre.
A side note. The engineer, as fun as it is, never filled the same niche the ritualist did for me. They don’t feel similar enough to me at all. The engineer is much more impulsive and chaotic then the ritualist was. The Ritualist was very slow at times and seemed to feel rather distanced in terms of the fight. What I mean is the ritualist rarely got into the middle of a fight. Weather you used offensive spirits or defensive spirits the ritualist could be seen out of the fight, preparing for the next as their spirits did the work.
So I ended up doing the calculations and the Scepter AA is out classed most of the time by the Staff’s auto.
Assuming that you have 3 of either clone using the scepter or staff, the staff’s damage output, although less consistent then the scepter does more damage on average. Scepter being 996 while the foe is moving with the trait Malicious sorcery. The Staff averaged 1381. Now this is taking into consideration only the duration of the conditions applied for 1 single attack from each of the clones. The staff does have a 26%(rounded up) chance to be lower then the scepter AA.
My calculations do not account for all factors but I would hope it at least gives you an idea.
I don’t normally post on the mesmer forums. I’m usually concerned with the state of the necromancer, but I am a fan of the mesmer from both GW1 and 2 so I’ll offer my vote.
Totally yes! My favorite build in GW1 was a mesmer build of my own design. It used Fevered Dreams and fragility along with a few other skills dedicated to applying conditions or functioning on conditions to cause minor harm. The build on its own was pretty mediocre. But once you had a full team that could apply every single condition in the game along with a dervish tank who would remove conditions from foes in order to increase its own damage, you had a team that could lock down entire groups of enemies with a heavy amount of damage. It was so much fun!
I fell in love with condition builds from GW1 so when I came to GW2 and found that conditions are lacking in PvE I was sorely disappointed. And with all the mesmer’s short duration and random condition application GW2 has left me really wanting new builds
There is a mega tone of potential builds in GW2 that are just missing one or two pieces in order to make them viable. And that frustrates me to no end! Especially considering how much I loved experimenting with builds in GW1 and my deep forbidden love with magic the gathering.
They got absorbed into the Guardian, I expect. The Guardian’s spirit weapons appear to be a blend of the Ritualist’s old-school spirit weapons and summoned spirits.
The guardian is too much of an amalgamation of a bunch of other professions to really pinpoint anything conclusive about that.
I’d like to see a return of the ritualist. Even if it no longer functions like it used to in GW1. I had a concept with urns and summoning dead heroes like Pyre or Jora. But I’ll have to post that in suggestions for another time along with the other ten million ritualist suggestion post already floating around.
The mesmer was one of my favorite professions in GW1. And its still one of my favorites in GW2. Giving the Mesmer an auto that actually causes conditions is a great move in my opinion. And the fact that it isn’t bleeding is a good thing! If it was confusion we would be in trouble, but Torment is very manageable.
For necros yes for other professions not so much. With well of power a condi mesmer can give us 15 mights stacks by only autoattecking. And condi transfer is really good against any condi spec.
That is a valid point. I don’t think a condi mesmer is going to be able to stand up to a condi necro in a fight very will without playing it very smart. But I’m thinking on the other side of the coin. PvE. Torment doesn’t steal bleed stack from other players so it could be reasonable to have a condi necro and condi mesmer working together with out too much, if any, loss of damage.
But that’s a bit niche I suppose. And I’m not even convinced that a condi mesmer will become a thing in PvE even with this addition. They need longer lasting conditions across the board for that to happen.
@Rashan & Lily – I think the fact that Dhuumfire doesn’t have anything to do with reanimating the dead it’s not that unreasonable to have. Dhuum also had a general named The Fury (an elementalist) that focused on fire magic. The reason Dhuumfire is called so is because Grenth is a god of death and ice. If there was a minion skill that was called “Dhuum-something” then there would be a problem. Dhuumfire is equal to saying it’s a non-grenth magic or even a heretical / forbidden spell which would actually make much sense.
As for the fire effect being on a pistol and not torment; if they made a combo field that generated torment effects on projectile finishers then I’d be all for removing the fire field effect from the weapon. But since it’s mainly a power weapon the field is for might or a spike in damage via fire damage.
@ Tad – It’s mainly a power weapon. I’ll throw in some more stats a bit later. I’m actually working on a few more ideas also and might just include them all in the main post.
Necromancers, at least for humans, didn’t exist before Grenth’s rise to power. Dhuum didn’t allow any form of necromancy. But even if this wasn’t the case there are plenty of other places Arena Net can pull from for naming traits. For example they could have named it after a famous necromancer from the first game or one of the books. I’m still wondering why none of the necromancer traits or skills reference Blimm in the slightest. Why not? Blimm was a brilliant Golemmancer who used necromancy. Why does arena net just need to dig in human lore? Why not a charr necromancer of the shaman cast?
Interesting. I would hope arena net looked more into the evolution of professions in the future. It would be fun to go back and learn exactly what happened to each of them and their progression over time.
A lot can happen in 250 years. A professions job can change drastically, some can be absorbed into the teachings of another, others can be wiped out threw war. Skills can be gained or lost to time.
The Paragon’s military tactics and supportive nature was absorbed into the teachings of the warrior and guardian. The assassin faded into memory while its magic was streamlined. The monk was absorbed into the culture of the guardian. And the teachings of the Dervish could have easily been wiped out by Palawa Joko’s forces.
But the Ritualist is different. Its a practice that is much older then many of these professions. Possibly older then their direct rival, the necromancer. The question is what happened to them? Its not like the norn, human and charr ritualists just fell into history. Not to mention the tengu wouldn’t so easily abandon the practice.
So I guess my question is what happened to them? Did they get absorbed into the necromancer’s teachings? Did they get wiped out? And how would that even happen to a transcontinental profession?
I hope people realize that Dhuum was anti-necromancy. Dhuum hated letting mortals use minions and refused to let revival to take place. According to the history in Tyria there were no Human necromancers before Grenth became the god of death and usurped Dhuum. And given the evidence provided by the Jotun this can be confirmed.
Having even a trait on the necromancer called Dhuumfire drives me absolutely nuts from a lore perspective.
On the Pistol thing. I’m going to say the same thing I say to the countless “give necromancer greatsword/sword” threads. If we are going to get a weapon that already exists in the game it should be a weapon that is underused. Pistol isn’t as big of an offender as those but still, a weapon with only 2 professions using it might be better in my opinion. Like a Mace or even the hammer. A bow would be really interesting.
I’m not opposed to the idea of a sword, greatsword or even pistol. just would like to see a greater variety of weapons being used rather then the same few weapons being used by everyone. But then again I’m a bit of a hipster.
The mesmer was one of my favorite professions in GW1. And its still one of my favorites in GW2. Giving the Mesmer an auto that actually causes conditions is a great move in my opinion. And the fact that it isn’t bleeding is a good thing! If it was confusion we would be in trouble, but Torment is very manageable.
This is what I use http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fREQNArYWjc00db1N+0wfbCchC6DIAi2ozgJYEoaLA-TxyCABAcIAwR9HFeAApoFALlfyphgijAwM7PonukxUCO9JAAA-e
Its allot of fun to play but you will find more success in groups with power builds.
We don’t need sweeping changes, but we do need things like siphons working through death shroud. Without that, siphons will never be good. Or they get buffed to the point of being OP. Best to let them work through death shroud, then adjust values from there.
We do need sweeping changes as you put it. And making siphons work through death shroud is a sweeping change fyi. The necromancer has a lot more problems with death shroud then just that and the entire ability might need to be reworked in the future to make sure the profession stays competitive.
This isn’t the case at all. We wanted sustain and healing in death shroud. But unholy sancuary is so clearly underpowered that it means they have no confidence in their ability to balance correctly. If they trsuted their testers they wouldn’t have the attitude of “add this thing and if its terrible we will buff it”. Unholy santuary is terrible even for an adept trait. It is conditional regen where the barrier to attain it has significant downsides (sitting in DS) which means your change in play style forced to make use of this trait will easily counter the power of the trait.
I would say, without testing, that making this trait 4 times as strong probably wouldn’t be overpowered for a grandmaster trait in this line. So to introduce such a low level of healing is frankly embarrassing for them.
Conceptually unholy santuary is ok. It is weak because of the numbers. At their speed of balancing this trait might as well of not been added. 50% or 100% buffs to this trait would likely take place over several balance patches (as in at least a year). When this trait needs 200% buff (at least) it is just never, in the lifetime of the game, going to get to a point where it is a useful trait.
Similarly the new spite grandmaster (heal with condi damage) is again just way too weak. Even at 10% (a 100% buff) it wouldnt be viable – espicially as it wont work with death shroud. I would say this trait is another one which cannot ever be viable because the distance between the number needed to make it viable (maybe 12-15%) and the current number (5%) is so large that it will take years to get there at the pace they balance at.
I’m not disagreeing with you on the power. However, I did say that and I’ll quote myself:
Sure most of this wasn’t exactly what we were thinking, but it is what the devs thought would be the right move to move forward. So they do listen, just aren’t always the best at getting it right.
To be quite frank with you, these traits are a result of topics the community has had about the profession. They didn’t get them right and I feel that they are too far off from what the necromancer needs. The necromancer has always been a problem for balancing, even in GW1. Don’t expect them to get it right so soon.
PS: I never said the traits were good. Just that they are kinda what the community asked for.
Arena net does listen to us. For better or worse. Several of our traits were introduced out of requests from the community. Dhuumfire, Parasitic Contagion, Unholy Sanctuary, and Unholy Martyr are all things that were discussed by the community as something they would like. It might not seem like this is what we wanted and thats because there still is a disconnect between the community and the devs.
part of the community wanted burning, we got dhuumfire.
Part of the community wanted to heal themselves using conditions we got Parasitic contagion.
Most the the community wanted healing in death shroud we got Unholy sanctuary.
A good chunk of our community wanted to be able to help allies more with death shroud. We got Unholy martyr.
Sure most of this wasn’t exactly what we were thinking, but it is what the devs thought would be the right move to move forward. So they do listen, just aren’t always the best at getting it right.
The Necromancer has a long standing history of causing trouble for Arena net. They did it in GW1 with minions, soul reaping, and suicide bombers and they do it with Death shroud in GW2.
I don’t expect our problems to be addressed for another year.
There are a lot of things I’d love to see changed about the necromancer. But we are going to have to wait for our turn on the balancing block to get it. So after ranger and engineer are done, necromancer might gets its turn. Until then a few simple changes would be nice. and the lists I see as needed that shouldn’t be too difficult are:
- Improved Minion AI
- Reviving allies in DS
- finishing enemies in DS
I I know we need a lot more then just that, but these three are probably the most reasonable to address at the moment. Some buffs to our stuff like the cleaving dagger, improved attack speed of life blast, life stealing improvements, SoV buff, axe buff along with a few others would be very nice for the next patch. Even with that said the three things I specifically listed probably wont be addressed in the next patch. Maybe the minion AI will, but I am not optimistic about it.
In a build with high healing power, I’d almost certainly use it as a utility. It offers more damage mitigation than protection in alot of cases.
It only offers more than protection if the hit is less than 1400 damage, and you get hit at most once a second, with 1400 healing power.
At 900HP (for example), the passive heal would be 415 (325 + HP * 0.1). A hit of 1000 (for example) would be mitigated 33% by protection down to 666, whereas the same 1000 hit offset by a 415 heal is 41.5% mitigation.
Its context dependent, so the 1 sec ICD must be figured in along with the average dmg per hit in order to determine which is better mitigation in a given circumstance.
I used SoV for the first time last night and was quite impressed by how well it worked for me in PVE.
I wasn’t impressed with it in PvE. The healing is too low, it doesn’t cleans conditions, doesn’t provide LF, and when healing allies well of blood was better. When really needing a healing skill, mainly against bosses, the 300 healing is nothing.
We also have to remember that healing isn’t the same thing as damage reduction. Reducing damage will always be better then raw healing at the same numbers. A skill that reduces 300 incoming damage will be better then a skill that heals for 300 after an attack,
I hope this skill gets a major buff. Because it was and still is a major disappointment.
On all the pro necros out their what needs to be changed that power builds are valiable in tPvP?
On that note, I personally feel that life blast’s cast time should be reduced. And give it a slight damage nerf to match that. Like make its cast time 3/4th a second rather then 1 second.
GW1’s necro was – IMHO – the pinnacle of attrition play perfected (when built for it, of course). One of the keys to that were multiple siphoning utility skills which permitted the necro to maintain a low (but not as ridiculously low as GW2’s) but constant trickle of healing at an opponent’s expense. The other key was being able to use your own health as a resource to sacrifice now for an even greater benefit later. It was beautiful.
GW2 dispensed with both mechanics for the necro class and that – in conjunction with other factors – severely limits our attrition potential. Would making SoV a utility solve the problem? By itself, no. However, it would a be a step in the right direction of giving us additional tools designed specifically to enhance our attrition and sustain.
Its a hypothetical question. I’m not at all suggesting that it be made into a utility skill. I’m more interested in the response then an actual change. I want to see what people might think of it if it was in a different situation.
Also, the GW1 necromancer was good at everything. Healing, punishment, nuking, support, tanking(through minions), control. You name it.
So, first I was going to say it’d be really strong, maybe too strong, but then I noticed guardians just have a flat -10% incoming damage.
But anyway, I think it should stay as a heal and simply get a bit of a rework. It needs something to noticeably differentiate it from Blood Fiend, since right now they are both (awful) passive heals.
this is a “what if” question. I am in no way suggesting this change take place.
Probably not. Signets/Siphons need to work in Deathshroud for SoV to ever be useful. It is simply too niche like you said before. Compare it to spectrals – good in any build/situation – we always want more LF and stunbreak/boons are always good – SoV needs to be more useful in all situations and should better address attrition which Necromancers sorely lack.
Simply removing the ICD or upping the values may not be enough. Not sure how to fix this skill or the class in general. Attrition is something Necros need and simply have never had.
we used to be a very strong attrition profession in the Alpha. You can look back at old videos were a necromancer player was able to successfully kite around half a team in PvP and still get away. But that was a bit much so they nerfed it. A bit too hard and we still haven’t recovered.
Also, Agree about the siphoning and signets.
Well the passive heal is 320ish which is 10% of 3000. Considering most attacks don’t deal 3000 damage it is pretty much a 10% damage reduction plus it has a low cooldown for a utility of 35 seconds. I’d say that would make it a pretty decent ability for some kind of tanking build with high toughness. Having said that I believe this skill will get a buff along with other siphons on september 9th.
any information on that out? I think I missed it if there was.
So its been a while now since SoV was introduced and since then I think I’ve seen it being used about a grand total of 3 times. Less times then I’ve seen Blood fiend being used. So I have a hypothetical question for everyone. And I’m curious to see what people’s response will be. This topic isn’t supposed to be a serious discussion or anything of the sort.
So here it is. Would you guys use SoV if it didn’t have its active healing of around 4k but became a utility skill with nothing else changed about it?
I’ll answer for myself before you guys do and I’d have to say.. Maybe for a very niche build.
Oh how exciting! When someone makes a comprehensive video or list of ranks on how well each profession stands up in terms of tankiness and damage with each of their builds could someone let me know? I don’t have all the professions made or the time and in game money to do it as I’m working on other things. But I am really interested to see the results.
I’ve actually stopped using flesh golem because of this. The problem has only seemed to have gotten worse as time has passed.
I’m not sure that corpses themselves have to return, although that is possible as well. You could have a skill that inflicts a target (or targets) with an irremovable debuff that spawns something on death, jagged horror technically does this too, you could have skills that spawn minions when they hit an enemy, skills that summon a minion with no secondary active, it just summons more minions (to a max), there are a lot of ways you can bring back the idea of the “army” that we used to have.
The key point for this game is that the minions need counterplay either in their damage/utility (via focusing on actives) or on their summoning (if you can somehow prevent it). Also the MM needs to do more than just summon minions. In GW1 the whole point wasn’t just spamming minions, but also making sure you micro’d death nova and/or various other things on them. There needs to be at least some kind of play with the minions, further than summon and forget.
Also all of that could arguably dip heavily into Mesmer/clone territory, unfortunately.
I know this is all just speculation and theory crafting, but I actually really like these kinds of conversations. Even if they don’t actually get implemented.
I think using on death traits could be a viable option as well. Like lets say that each time a foe dies you get a buff that causes you to summon an extra jagged horror with the next minion skills cast. Not necessarily that trait specifically but I think you get the idea.
Any minion skill that has a quick recharge as well and could potentially be spammed should take a note from GW1 and be very finite. Much like the jagged horrors are now. Also a debuff that spawns a minion on foe death has been done before in GW1. And it is a possibility
Maybe even a skill that summons more minions based on how much life force you currently have? There are countless directions that arena net could go with minions while still making it flavorful.
I don’t think they should change how minions work with small exceptions (I don’t think they should do anything without you “forcing” them to through attacking an enemy), BUT if they want to try to recreate the GW1 playstyle, I think they should do it through adding new skills/weapons/traits/etc. to support it. As long as it is a healthy addition to the game, I’m all for expanding minion playstyles, and if they go the route of additions and not replacements or reworks, there is no reason they can’t add playstyles that are a bit more niche.
How would they do that though? I mean, corpses are not a node that can be used. Are they? I mean, they might have some unused code. Hmm. I partially agree with you, but thats really more because an old post I made basically suggested the same thing you are saying.
snip
No, you guys keep bringing it back up. I’ve stated multiple times that it was something I BELIEVED! And you continued to bring it up. SO i keep having to repeat myself. Honestly, I have to repeat myself less when babysitting a 3 year old.
Your attitude is admirable but you have to realize you’re just frustrating yourself and doing not much else.
If you think you’re the only one with this issue you’re wrong.
If you feel they’re not aware you’re again wrong.If they can find a way to fix it they will and make a lot of players happy.
I’m just going to address this last point because You are right. It is just frustrating myself with this.
Never said I was the only one with this issue. If I believed I was, I wouldn’t say anything. (For example, I have an issue with using the engineer’s grenade kit. I don’t have the money to buy one of those fancy mouses with the buttons on the side. I want to, and its an issue I have, but thats more of a personal issue then something that I would otherwise bring up on the forums and ultimately not worth discussing. )
Oh I don’t doubt they are aware. But problems get ignored if it isn’t brought up from time to time.
And lastly. Here is to hoping.
Please stay on topic and keep the discussion without ad hominem. I could also say i’m done listening to a dull argument old of 2 years, of people trying to enforce a certain playstyle on me. I didn’t. Your exemple of trait system is game wide. Impacting dungeons without having effects on the whole game is the issue here, since, as said countless time, condi are extremely powerful everywhere but here. I don’t know how to put it more clearly, it’s both an uneccessary and an impossible change. Condis use DoT, damage over time. Pve is about burst. Even if you move the cap, the ramp up time for condis will still make them inferior in group, and crazily powerful in solo.
Off topic, but yup, an unidentified human being on internet will be refered as “he”. Still better than “it”, and since there’s no way to know, it was just a general assumption, no need to get mad on that.
Except I was identified as female in the thread already and he continued to use he.
More on topic, you say they wont and history has shown us that they are both willing to make changes and will go back on what they said if needed. And in this case, it is needed. You can disagree with me on it being needed. I’m not a lone person who has this opinion.
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No. No I didn’t. And I said believe it had something to do with hexes. Not a statement of fact. You seem to be confusing the two. And its unhealth for a conversation. I have to keep repeating myself and you guys keep not listening. So until you have something to add to the actual conversation, we are done.
Aside from the passionate arguments over animated corpses in GW 1 and 2, please eliminate the, “Huh, wut?” In minion behavior, Arenanet.
I agree 150%. Before any changes could be made to how minions function this should be priority number one when it comes to minions.
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/212/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-III.aspx
There’s a cap on condition stacks of 25. In a scenario where you have two thieves attacking a boss and one of them can achieve a stack of 25 by themselves, the other one essentially becomes useless because they’ve got nothing to stack on. Is anything being done to address that to make them less redundant?
Colin: Currently no. Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.
One of the things people have been talking about is having their own individual stack limit that they can apply, rather than an infinite amount on one boss.
Colin: Yes, it’s tough. It’s certainly something we can look at, it does drastically change the way that the professions play, right? It does say “you can no longer stack all of one type of condition”. It might change the skills on each profession if we were to do that. It would encourage a little more group play to some extent. It’s not something we’re really talking about, but it’s an interesting idea. I’d have to think a lot about what the effects of that would be overall, but it’s an interesting… interesting idea.
Oh, thanks for the link. That is really helpful. That second part is actually much closer to what I wanted to hear. Thanks.
Why do you post and claim misinformation about game mechanics, and promote your personal opinion as an actual fact, then demand evidence of common knowledge?
I didn’t.
FYI, this is an English forums, and the masculine term is a proper use, in each and every case in the English language.
No its not. And its very disrespectful at the same time.
And I believe one of many, many developer post that answers you reply here, is in the post just above. This displays your intent to promote the misinformation of your personal agenda, in that you actually rejected this common knowledge fact. Happily accepting to continue pushing your previous claims. and demanding anyone who disagreed with you to provide evidence.
He outright lied to me and intentionally edited the information to fit what he wanted me to say. Also, I didn’t deny that there was a mechanical issue with it, I stated that a solution could be found. And no developer has responded to this thread.
So, if you are done I have better things to do then listen to people trying to lie to me and twist what I have been trying to say.
Back! Your suggestion won’t work because of what i keep telling you: Anet won’t split pve/pvp, nor they will split dungeon/open world. I can’t imagine them changing their mind after 2 years because the 1000th post about conditions asked the exact same thing. Wouldn’t mind them to prove me wrong, though.
Nothing is set in stone with them. And they already have split skills which they said they didn’t want to do. They also said they didn’t want players to change their builds on the fly so they could feel like a unique hero. I don’t remember the exact words but the second point for sure is something arena net has gone back on and changed.
If you are going to compare numbers, do it right. A decently optimized warrior doing 10k dps in a group is probably at 25 might and 25 bloodlust. A condi build with 25 might/corruption should be at 3k+ condi dmg. 25 bleeds at 3k condi dmg is 4.8k dps. Bhawbs silly example of burning, poison, and max torment and bleeds would be 13.5k dps before factoring in power.
In the video maha linked, he is hitting ~600 power dmg along with that ~6k condi dps. (It’s also a heavy armor target.) Warriors that are hitting 10k dps in group setting rely on team buffs and those same team buffs would turn that 600 into something closer to 1-1.5k dps. (25% from vulnerability, banners, more might, not a heavy target, frost spirit etc.) He would be closer to 7-9k dps. A zerker build that gained 700 toughness from knights would be doing less than the condi build. Theoretical damage is not the problem so no buffs are required. Overriding is…
Maybe, I’ve just missed someone posting this before but wouldn’t the more elegant solution be to change all the minor traits that cause bleeds? I’m pretty sure the devs have swapped a minor and major trait before. If someone wanted the bleed on crit major, they would just have to actively chose it. A condi build could kindly ask a teammate to swap it without destroying an overall trait loadout. I highly doubt this would affect pvp balance if a proper replacement was picked. If condis are really that big of a drain on the server, it would also help since most ppl just wouldn’t pick that trait if they had the option so less lag. It would still be problematic for 5 condi builds in a group but a group could be ok with 1, maybe 2 condi builds. Ideal? No, but that seems like all the improvement that is practically needed without require an entire engine rework.
Its a bit stickier then you think. Many of the traits that cause problems are minor traits and can’t be swapped out. Although I’d love to be able to have a few options for the minor to be swapped I doubt that is going to happen any time soon. It would help a condi player in Dungeons a lot more but I doubt it will have too much effect on world events.
I also wasn’t asking to buff condi damage. Just keep it on a more fair playing field as power. Part of the issue I mention was how well power builds lend their aid to allies. And how condi builds do not but still have the potential to. Just about everything is set up to allow for very interesting condi teams but the condi caps are getting in their way.
Edit: I suppose I’m still a bit nostalgic for Guild wars 1. If you saw a build you could play it and chances are you could make it very good. Guild wars 2, I just see a mega tone of builds that can’t be used effectively because of several conflicts with how combat works.
(edited by Lily.1935)