Guild Wars 2

Why not stop making new Black lion weapons for a while and bring back a few old BL weapon sets that we can’t anywhere but the trading post? It seems like that takes quite a bit of development to make. I mean, I could be wrong but I think that it’d be a win win for the community. There are quite a few weapons that I missed the first time around that I’d like to get a hold of and you could focus on Legendaries and your other content.

Its a win win! Not everyone will like my solution because in game greed. But this doesn’t make everyone happy either. And I think that rotating old BL weapons back in could be a good solution.

Its really not that big of a deal. It helps the scepter a bit but it won’t be OP or anything like that.

Now if only they could fix the necromancer’s actual worst weapon, the axe.

I have a Condi minion build that I’ll run. And I was taking offhand focus just to remove a few boons. Well, with this change I can take warhorn instead. Not only that, this takes away focus from Spite for condi set ups.

It also means that the absolute only thing that the Axe had going for it over the scepter is now completely gone. Good job Anet. Now I can never justify taking an axe again.

Okay, this is something that drives me nuts. I have people I want to play with who are on the EU servers. And I can’t because I’m NA. I have no interest in swapping over to EU because I have friends in NA that I want to play with. But I also want to play with my EU friends… I could start a new account but I don’t want to start from scratch. I would like to play with as many people as possible… :\ Especially considering I’m tend to be a night owl.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Lily.1935:

You’re missing the entire point. You have to look at everything and take much of human beliefs into question because it isn’t certain. Every source I’ve read, including the ones you’ve linked, do not make a positive suggestion on where humans came from one way or another. I believe, yes, they came from another world. But the evidence for that isn’t good enough to say for certain. There is allot of contradictory lore in the game as it is and i’m just trying to piece it together.

There’s a lot of contradictory lore in the game – I cannot deny that. Half of it comes from Season 1 and later stuff.

But there is consistency in the statement that humanity came from another world – not Tyria (continent) nor Tyria (world).

Lily.1935:

And the dev post didn’t make a good suggestion one way or another. Like other people responded to it basically said “This didn’t answer any of our questions”.

He didn’t answer the question positioned, but there are answers.

And I don’t see howy ou can find doubt in the statement: They arrived in the Tyria (the continent) sometime after they first appeared on Tyria (the world).

This outright states that they arrived on the world at some point. To arrive means to come from somewhere. E.g., humanity’s origins are not of the world of Tyria. He states it as an explicit fact.

And you called him into question because he wasn’t hired during Prophecies’ development.

What he ’didn’t answer’ in that statement was where they lived before Cantha, Tyria, and Elona. Their ‘homeland’ continent.

Lily.1935:

Although it did lend some credibility to the part where I said human magic could be toxic to tyria. Which they did say humans didn’t have allot of their own magic, but they did have magic. And that’s a very important key point to that statement. They don’t need a whole lot to cause problems.

That was an entirely different dev and statement from Jeff Grubb – the person who said that humans had little to not magic before Tyria was Angel McCoy, a she not a he, who in my opinion (and the opinion of others) is not a good writer.

Lily.1935:

Some of the Lore you posted too suggests that much of it was Oral. Which makes it even less credible than before.

The oral tradition was referring to the origin of magic.

And to be perfectly honest, a bunch of BS to cover Angel’s screw ups that the post was responding to.

It’s starting to feel like you just read the first paragraph of my post and then stopped reading entirely, since you continue your ‘toxic magic’ thing without responding to anything I said in regards to it.

You just spouted a bunch of ’it’s not reliable!’ and continued to do so by talking about a singular piece of my post that doesn’t even expand past the fifth sentence.

sigh

Forget I said anything.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Lily.1935:

We have to remember that many of those sources if any of them might not be credible.

If you were to take everything with a grain of salt just because it ‘might not be credible’ then you have no foundation for lore – you have nothing that is credible – and you can start spouting things like “Darth Vadar brought humanity to the world of Tyria” and have it just as likely as anything else.

Lily.1935:

Both in what he said when talking about the human lore and working with it for a pan-species perspective that pieces of the puzzle were missing or very inaccurate.

Lily.1935:

Something written down by the Orrians isn’t exactly very reliable especially considering that it doesn’t correspond with lore in other locations but seems to be its own thing entirely. Much like the Jotun I mentioned earlier his story doesn’t correspond either.

There are many sources about how humanity came to be. But they all agree on one thing: the gods made or brought humanity into the world.

As to the how and where on the world they first appeared, that’s never talked about. Except in the Orrian History Scrolls. It is the singular source of lore on it.

Old lore folks tend to hold themselves to at least this rule: if it isn’t contradicted, take it as truth. Because if you don’t, you get what I said above – everything becomes as likely as anything else, because you have no trustworthy basis to stand your theory upon. New lore folks don’t really adhere to that and while I like the new blood (since most old lore folks left with the Living World Seasons’ retcon-o-fests), it’s an important rule of thumb to follow otherwise all discussion on lore is meaningless from every viewpoint.

Thrulnn is contradicted by many sources – from developers to historians to individuals talking about first-hand experiences. But even some things that Thrulnn says holds credibility – such as how humanity arrived on Tyria (continent) in 205 BE.

Via ships.

Lily.1935:

The quote I put in the post should be very telling of how you should view the information.

No, it really shouldn’t.

Lily.1935:

The post by the dev doesn’t say a whole lot and doesn’t disprove anything of my hypothesis at all. Doesn’t prove anything either.

Individually? No. But you add them all together and you get plenty.

Lore in Guild Wars is a puzzle. You get hundreds of pieces from a hundred sources and you have to put them together. Some don’t fit, and might be false pieces of that puzzle, but you’ll never find a singular source on an entire subject.

Lily.1935:

And the question of Tyria or Tyria really comes into play here. Are they from Tyria the world but not the continent? Or are they from another place in the mists?

My sources outright state humanity comes from another world.

Lily.1935:

History never lies. Historians however. That quote right there should be really telling on how arena net tells their story.

You’re taking the quote well out of proportion, I think. Yeah, ArenaNet likes to seed in subjective truths, as well as sometimes outright lies. But you’ll always also have an alternative subjective truth or objective truth to compare those subjective truths and lies to.

ArenaNet gives us the answer – when they give us anything at all. But that answer is in bits and pieces, and you need to add them all up.

You cannot deny a singular source because an alternative source says something different – what if they’re both wrong? What if they’re both right but from different perspectives? What if one’s wrong and one’s right – but which is right and which is wrong?

It’s far more than “historians lie”. Because historians also tell the truth.

Lily.1935:

Also the west thing? I’ll probably find it eventually.. it’ll be 3 months from now and I’ll stumble across it again.

If you have a faint idea of where you got it, you should be able to find it within an hour via the wiki or in-game.

Lily.1935:

But Jeff Grub wasn’t on the team at the beginning. He only joined around Factions(I believe this is right but I could be mistaken.) where this concept of lore was already established.

The vast majority of ArenaNet developers were not on the team in the beginning. Does that mean all of GW2’s story ad lore is worth jack? No.

Jeff Grubb was one of the two continuity designers. His very job was to make lore consistent – same with Ree Soesbee at the time. The job has been taken over by Angel McCoy and Scott McGough while Jeff and Ree disappeared (we don’t know if they work for Anet anymore or not) – the quality of Angel and Scott’s job is questionable, but Jeff and Ree did a kitten good job.

Jeff was also one of the main writers behind Abaddon and Palawa Joko – before Jeff, there was but a single sentence on Joko’s lore and Abaddon didn’t even exist. So are we to just toss out all that because Jeff wasn’t around in the beginning? No.

We have been told by devs that the ONLY time that we ever denounce a dev’s statements in interviews and forums posts is when it is countered by in-game (or book) lore. And even then, such statement only came to be because Angel and Scott’s reign as narrative designers has resulted in retcon after retcon. With Jeff and Ree there was no retcon that wasn’t well disguised as false histories.

Your entire post dumbs down to “well you may have sources but it doesn’t matter because people lie!” Which is a very, very poor stance.

You’re missing the entire point. You have to look at everything and take much of human beliefs into question because it isn’t certain. Every source I’ve read, including the ones you’ve linked, do not make a positive suggestion on where humans came from one way or another. I believe, yes, they came from another world. But the evidence for that isn’t good enough to say for certain. There is allot of contradictory lore in the game as it is and i’m just trying to piece it together.

And the dev post didn’t make a good suggestion one way or another. Like other people responded to it basically said “This didn’t answer any of our questions”. Although it did lend some credibility to the part where I said human magic could be toxic to tyria. Which they did say humans didn’t have allot of their own magic, but they did have magic. And that’s a very important key point to that statement. They don’t need a whole lot to cause problems.

Some of the Lore you posted too suggests that much of it was Oral. Which makes it even less credible than before. If you’ve ever played telephone you should know what I’m talking about. Its why in game historians don’t take that Jotun seriously.

We don’t have a lot of concrete evidence of anything. Can’t believe everything and I don’t. I’m looking at what’s cohesive with what we know. Which is surprisingly very little.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

snip

We have to remember that many of those sources if any of them might not be credible. Both in what he said when talking about the human lore and working with it for a pan-species perspective that pieces of the puzzle were missing or very inaccurate. Something written down by the Orrians isn’t exactly very reliable especially considering that it doesn’t correspond with lore in other locations but seems to be its own thing entirely. Much like the Jotun I mentioned earlier his story doesn’t correspond either. The quote I put in the post should be very telling of how you should view the information. The post by the dev doesn’t say a whole lot and doesn’t disprove anything of my hypothesis at all. Doesn’t prove anything either. And the question of Tyria or Tyria really comes into play here. Are they from Tyria the world but not the continent? Or are they from another place in the mists? This is the primary question we’re asking but the dev doesn’t answer that. Which leaves it up in the air.

History never lies. Historians however. That quote right there should be really telling on how arena net tells their story. Also the west thing? I’ll probably find it eventually.. it’ll be 3 months from now and I’ll stumble across it again. But Jeff Grub wasn’t on the team at the beginning. He only joined around Factions(I believe this is right but I could be mistaken.) where this concept of lore was already established.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I feel they topped Nightfall with Winds of Change – especially when you consider their technical limitations (no voice acting, minimal cinametic capabilities). The only downside was that the final fight in WoC felt like it came directly out of a cheesy anime ending (but that isn’t too surprising given John Stumme is a massive anime fan), but even with that I felt it topped even Nightfall.

And that story was fighting a normal human being with no super genius intellect or powerful magical artifacts – after fighting gods, humans with powerful magical artifacts, and more. The final plot of GW1 was against someone who would be squished within seconds by the previous main villains, yet it was to me the best plot of GW1.

Perhaps because Minister Reiko managed to be a true threat even to god-slaying heroes despite being a normal human being.

I’d disagree. Nightfall was an extremely epic story. I like WoC, but it didn’t have the epic feeling that is expected of an MMO. Its scaled down in terms of scope but still enjoyable.

Its a rather interesting topic. Its been a huge mystery about the humans for a long time? Where did the human race come from? Are they native to tyria? or are they from another world entirely? This has been a question that’s been on my mind since the very first Guild wars game. The question didn’t exist until the contradictory lore that suggested that the human gods didn’t create the world in their creation myth. Now its no secret that some of the lore of the world of Tyria is convoluted and contradictory in some areas. The same is true for real life history. Historical figures we believed were real may not have been while others who we believed were myths turned out to be real. The same holds true for the history of Tyria.

“History never lies. Historians however…” Priory Historian

I have a Hypothesis About the humans and where they come from. And its a doozy of a story. Regardless of how you slice it though, Humans were extremely civil long before they stepped foot on the continent of Tyria. In spite of what that Jotun, Thrulnn the Lost might have you believe. If we want to find the truth, the closest we’re going to get is from Cantha. We know that Cantha is the earliest known settlement of the humans. Before they set foot into Elona and moved their way up to the continent of Tyria. But this wasn’t the origin place of the humans. They tell stories of sailing from the west to Cantha.

Gwen and Yeh seems like the most likely candidate for humans to come from. But they could have also come from Wetland, sailing south east toward Cantha. Its yet unknown though. My personal thought is that they come from Gwen and Yeh. Which would create a problem since that location is a hot bed for Ley energy. Reality seems to warp and shift when in the ley lines and in such a location where Ley energy is more of a large pool enveloping a majority of the twin continents the fabric of reality seems extremely unstable and extremely hostile to a species such as the humans. But this also leaves the possibility that a portal could have formed in this area since the fabric of their reality would be so thin and malleable. The perfect spot for the Humans and their Gods to slip through.

Where ever the humans come from its clear that the Gods have a very special and invested interest in the humans. The gods are believed to not be off Tyria and are a physical part of the mists. But what is also known is that humans can ascend to godhood and its even suggested that the humans and the gods can produce offspring. Such with the legend of Grenth. We have this idea already that the gods and humans are connected in some profound way. And its possible that that they actually need each other for survival.

So lets go ahead and just assume that the Gods did bring the humans to Tyria. Why? Why expend so much energy to bring them to an unknown world that could potentially kill them all or even harm the gods themselves in the process? My hypothesis is that it was desperation. Its possible that the Gods come from a dying world that was destroyed by something. Perhaps industrialization, maybe a run away ley line energy effect since they had no dragons to consume it or perhaps it was Arrogance from the gods themselves. Whatever the case may be they needed to leave. But where can they go? Searching through out the mists its very possible they came across a suitable plane. One without dragons and a stable mana source. The Gods could have seen this place as a haven. A new home to bring the humans to.

This new world didn’t come without complications though. Human spirits linger on the plane becoming malicious, their sudden invasion pushes out old species and drives others to extinction. Over all humans are extremely bad for Tyria. Everywhere they go they seem to cause problems for other races and their overwhelming magic from their old world proves to be dominant against an already sickly and weakened world after the rise of the dragons.

Adding to that, the humans and the norn seem to be the only two species that actively leave behind their spirits after death unintentionally. There are also the Animal spirits but I feel that those spirits aren’t quite the same thing since those spirits are avatars of their respective species. Human spirits and norn spirits are a bit different in this regard as they seem to have trouble passing to the next world without some aid. We’ve seen this in the Canthan story line with the Envoys. Humans seem to physically need something to bring them to the next world which no other race has mentions of needing an envoy other than the norn but I’ll get into that another time.

To sum up the norn since I don’t want to spend too much time derailing the topic at hand part of my hypothesis suggests that the norn are descended from humans and rather than going east from Gwen and Yeh they headed north. But I’ll elaborate that in the future when I decided to dedicate a post about the norn.

Going back to what I mentioned about Mana, it could be very possible that the mana from Tyria and whatever might be the humans home planet is could be very different and incompatible with each other. Think trying to give A blood to a B patient. Thus the world of tyria would want to react in trying to remove the foreign mana from its system. But with its weakened immune system, the humans can easily take over and spread like a virus. But once the flow of mana begins to return to the world the gods view this as a sign to leave since the planet itself would be toxic to them and is more than likely also toxic to humans.

This could suggest the sudden decline of the humans species after they’ve had such major dominance in the world up till this point. At the point in their history there isn’t a species or a nation that could have pushed them so far not even in 250 years. But since the world is basically awake its trying to get rid of the foreign bodies in its system and cleanse itself. Humans are harmful to the world but that also means that the world is harmful to humans.

Leading into the bloodstone and the exalted we see that humans are specifically selected as both sacrifices and as Defenders against the dragons. Why humans? And why Humans with high magical aptitude? Well considering how evolution works its possible that a majority of humans have lost much of their old magic to adapt to the new mana moving into their bodies of the world of tyria. Effectively becoming more like a native to tyria. So the humans chosen still have quite a bit of that old mana left in them. Now this isn’t to say that that old mana ever left their system entirely, because I don’t think it did, its just saying that newer generations of humans have less of it than older generations. Which is why Glint needed humans with this old magic. The Exalted would be poison to the dragons and thus be the perfect defense against the elder dragons. Combine this with the concept of the bloodstone being mana that can’t be accessed by the dragons it only makes sense to seal it with a magic source that causes the dragons physical harm.

More and more its looking like humans are required in the war against the dragons, but this might not be a good thing for Tyria. Although I don’t think the humans are capable of killing Tyria with how much in decline they are, its very possible if my hypothesis holds up they might accidentally be working against the best interests of the races of Tyria.

Conclusion, This is an extremely long and involved hypothesis and I think I’ve probably left out quite a bit in the process of explaining. If you have questions about it feel free to leave a question in the comments. If you don’t like it, I’d be happy to hear a different idea from you. Perhaps you like it and see some more connections to expand on it. I look forward to hearing from you guys.

Anet never topped nightfall. So its honestly not that hard to top Heart of thorns.

Glacial.9516:

Just checked in HOTM and Verdant Brink with Reaper’s Shroud. I was able to proc Sigil of Hydromancy both entering and leaving shroud in both places. Sigil of Energy procced both leaving and entering shroud in HOTM (but I don’t have one with me to test in VB).

Maybe there’s some combination of factors that is preventing it from working?

its possible there is a problem with my installation specifically. Because I’m physically leaving combat when I enter shroud.

Sheobix.8796:

Lily.1935:

If you notice that the in combat signature has faded away. Its only for a split second that it happens, but regardless if i’m taking damage, dealing damage or what have you, I can’t trigger my sigils because of this and lose a bit of momentum.

Ah. this is where you’re mistaken.

Shroud isn’t dropping you out of combat. It’s just known and acknowledged that you cannot interact/activate sigils while in shroud. You also do not get healed or reap the benefits/bonuses from sigils in shroud.

Anet has addressed this already and its working as intended. Not a joke.

I’m not mistaken. I’m dropping combat. Sigils are supposed to proc now on entering shroud. The visual for indicating you’re are in combat fades away and you actually do LEAVE combat. My Sigil of energy hasn’t been triggering which cuts its effectiveness. Which is a absolutely terrible bug. Its screwed me up and got me killed already.

So whats the count for me being killed by bugs? At least 1.5k times.

If you notice that the in combat signature has faded away. Its only for a split second that it happens, but regardless if i’m taking damage, dealing damage or what have you, I can’t trigger my sigils because of this and lose a bit of momentum.

Sandrox.9524:

Works for me..
Which game mode did you had it?

PvE is where I had it in.

Kodama.6453:

Not sure if I understand you right. So, if you go in reapers shroud you get ooc and you won’t get benefit from effects which will only be granted in combat?

If so, terrible bug and should be fixed immediatly.

Yes that’s exactly it.

Name: Lilith Be Gone

Gender: Female

Race: Human

The name is actually less of a name and more a title. The Character herself in my personal Head cannon isn’t actually named Lilith Be Gone but takes that title on from her Guild Wars 1 counterpart. Lullaby loosely translates to Lilith begone. Its a old blessing sung over children before they went to sleep to protect them from being snatched away in the night by the mother of demons, Lilith.

The story behind the character is pretty Interesting. But that’ll have to wait for another time. That could take me hours to write down and I doubt most people would actually bother to read it.

So I’ve noticed today. When I enter death shroud or reaper’s shroud I drop combat for a split second. This doesn’t benefit me in anyway and is actually a hindrance since it prevents me from benefiting from on swap sigils with my shroud.

As long as you have most of the chill stacks it shouldn’t be a problem. So redundancy with chill isn’t a bad thing when taking a condition set up. I can permanently sustain chill on my target without a problem on both power builds and condi builds since I have dozens of chill applications on traits and skills. I’m quite fond of the condition build and favor it over power for its sustained damage and and synergistic nature with other condition users.

Anchoku.8142:

Dagger is a great weapon – the equal of greatsword.

That is exactly how I feel.

Necromancer provides massive damage for both a physical set as well as condition set. We have one of the best survivability capability in PvE out of all the professions. This means we can stick in combat under high pressure for much longer than most anyone else. Death shroud is some of the strongest ranged DPS and reaper’s shroud is extremely strong melee DPS. Greatsword and Dagger both do high damage in melee and Scepter and dhuumfire provide us with solid condition damage.

Its not all sunshine and roses though. The necromancer has little utility it can provide to the group. Vampiric presence is extremely good and blood magic provides some great group utility on its own. But our vuln stacking and self might becomes superfluous in groups. Our support is also rather underwhelming at times and our defenses are almost entirely reliant on shroud. Our ability to hinder brake bars is decent but not nearly as good as it probably should be.

But even with the negatives, don’t let the nay Sayers get you down, necros are great. Run them, love them and murder face.

Best? No. Good? absolutely. Dagger has some good life force generation as well as a bit of control and healing on it making it a decent choice for a bit of a tankier build. its damage is also sizable enough that it can be your primary melee damage.

Though when looking at Reaper with reaper’s shroud and greatsword the dagger seems a bit superfluous in my opinion.

Some changes that would probably help axe out a tone is changing its auto to a chain skill. This gives you the ability to cancel after the first or second to go into a higher power skill and a change to retaliation to a stacking boon. Both these changes could give the axe what it needs.

Personally, I’d like to see something along the lines of giving the axe bonus damage the closer you are to a foe rather than if they’re vulnerable but that’s just me.

But Stacking retaliation is another topic entirely.

Sandrox.9524:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lily.1935:

Its not a bias opinion of mine its performance. If axe actually preformed well I’d only complain about its absolutely terrible paddling animation on females. But when I’m using it and and not paying attention to its animation I’m always thinking “Ugh…. this is just dreadful I could be using staff and not be getting wreaked by everything around me.”

Also, by the way. I don’t often use soul marks. But I like the option.

It is biased, because it’s your performance. I’ve been in too many WvW roaming situations where Staff was negligibly helpful at best against blind spam, aegis spam, stealth spam, etc., for me to really like Staff. And you’d think I might like Staff against something like stealth, because you can drop AoEs, but that isn’t really how it worked out. And if that Staff #1 isn’t generating upwards of 12%+ LF per cast, that’s a whole lot of time you’re spending trying to land a non-homing, slow projectile on multiple people.

Axe clears blinds, in one of its many ticks, and still applies the rest of its pressure/LF gen, as opposed to so many other Necro abilities that are long cast times for a single hit. It continues to channel through stealth, so that Thief that just D/P combo’d back into stealth for the 10th time is still taking damage (Power, mind you, so it doesn’t have the incredible convenience Condi has in situations like that). When the Mesmer comes out of stealth with Aegis, you channel for LF generation, blow any blinds/aegis, and apply some pressure/get some LF to boot. Did that Medi guard just pop Shield of Wrath? 3 ticks from Axe #2 and it’s gone, instead of 3 slow hits that may or may not land.

And that’s all just channel usefulness. It doesn’t have to kill them in 2 channels, but as long as it applies pressure and gets me some LF generation, great. The boon corruption + AoE cripple is nice for some control while you’re in vulnerable-mode. The off-hand can be anything you want it to be.

I mainly just don’t want anyone to be completely discouraged from trying it. As with most things in MMOs, personal style can be a major component. Someone might be really good at managing DoTs, but struggle with a burn-phase style. Maybe someone can instinctually support/heal, but doesn’t know when the time is right to dive for the kill.

This is prime example of the diffrences betwin somone who do roams than somone who pretend to roam, no matter what you gonna say Lily, true roaming ppl know and tested staff and played it enough to realize it underpreform with reaper spec. I am 100% sure this guy is a roamer cause he got spot on the same problem with staff and the same advantage with axe I came up with, so I kbow this guy roames and actually experinenced the same thing. I think you should roam up a bit, and not running with zergs cause staff is still better for running in zerg cause of aoe and soul marks actually gives you lf for each enemy.That said you can run axe/warhorn which works good too.In spvp I run power signet necro with axe/focus for maxmize boon removal, which decimate bunkers namely guardians and cele eles and it owns!

Actually I do a tone of solo roaming. Because of my work scheduled I don’t get much time to do much else. Running in a zerg? Rarely.

Bhawb.7408:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Now don’t get me wrong: I’m nowhere near as down on the Staff as Bhawb is. I think it has its place and, generally, the choice between it and Axe/? comes down to personal preference and the specific content at hand. But Axe/? is good, too, certainly better for single-target damage.

This is really the take away for Axe/? vs Staff. There are some situations where one is objectively better (higher power DPS on Axe vs Staff’s condition damage), but generally speaking, especially in PvP, its a matter of personal choice.

@Lily, just because I hate using staff doesn’t mean I’m incapable of seeing its strengths. Me refusing to use it in my builds is just a personal choice, I know it is stronger in certain situations, however there is also a lot of blind love for staff when it doesn’t strictly benefit your build more than another option. I just dislike it when people go overboard on bringing up what staff does while ignoring what axe brings; they’re both generally subpar weapons that have a ton of mechanics without any of them being particularly strong or unique.

A month ago you where saying that it was total crap. And before that you were saying it was even worse. We know the history of the axe and the damage it outputs isn’t higher at its peek and even then people where complaining that its life force gain is too low, damage is too low, range was too low and utility was too low. Now that it has an extra 300 range on two skills suddenly its great? I don’t understand this at all, it makes zero sense to me. All of its other problems haven’t been fixed.

Though I wasn’t in the camp about its damage or its range. I didn’t consider its range or damage to be a problem (Which it wasn’t) It was always its utility that was the problem. And its still a problem. You where even paragoning that absolutely horrible idea of giving it a blast finisher on top of the other changes.

The axe needs help. Its very sick and its dying of necrosis.

Aside from that, how’ve you been? I’ve been trying to message you but your box is full. I’d message you in game, but that kinda feels a bit too personal for my tastes.

Sandrox.9524:

Lily.1935:

spoj.9672:

I’m biased against both.

But here’s some facts about staff versus axe.

Axe auto has 0.77 coefficient total per chain. The chain takes 0.95 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.81.

Staff has 0.66 coefficient total. If you factor in the 10% higher weapon strength you get 0.73 per auto. The auto takes 1.4 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.52.

Axe is quite clearly better. Especially if you take the axe trait. Axe 2 is also a big gain over staff and axe auto’s.

You are quite clearly biased Lily. Because when you look at it objectively the facts speak for themselves.

I’m not. Its not about weapon strength its about utility. Axe doesn’t provide valuable utility. I’ve said that the damage is slightly higher without the trait. But taking the trait strips you of other valuable traits you could be taking instead to make a bad weapon slightly less bad.

And! Not only that if we take into account the strength of Death shroud or reaper’s shroud the staff provides far greater uptime of both of them because of its superior ability to generate life force. Thus increasing your overall damage far beyond that of what the axe could provide.

Another note to consider. Weapon’s damage also factors into the damage of your attacks in Death shroud and reaper’s shroud. And since staff has a higher weapon strength than axe. (Axe being 900-1,100 and staff being 1,034-1,166 respectively).

Less shroud down time means more damage when not using your primary weapon of choice.

Now now, when I sadi that staff brings only utility, you said nooooo staff is considerbly doing more dmg, and now that somone proved ya that staff doing less dmg you return to your only thing that is true, the thing I said about staff brigning only utility to the table. It might be good when you playing against thieves with no brain.But side from that, staff is very much avoidable and when you lay all your marks,you wanna pray for the swtich weapon toggle to be available.While in axe/x you have the constant pressure which with staff you dont. also I argue that using axe/warhorn gives you about same utilty as staff.

Read what I’ve said again. And then do it again because you where not listening at all. I never said Staff does considerably more damage. I said shroud does and that staff provides greater life force than the axe does which provides greater shroud up time. Note what I’ve said and don’t accuse me of saying something I didn’t.

Cogbyrn.7283:

How are you measuring effectiveness, out of curiosity? As far as greater shroud uptime, it seems assumed that you get more LF from Staff #1 spam, but that assumes that mobs are alive. I suppose if you’re fighting a pack of vets they would survive, but any regular mobs I’ve fought so far just get cleaved down within a few seconds, leaving the “main” mob. I really enjoy soloing champions when I find them (if they don’t take forever to kill), and when there’s a single target, Staff’s LF generation is abysmal at best.

I have pretty incredible survivability without the need for Staff with my Cavalier build, so I personally want the damage/LF generation combo from range (and the boon strip, and the additional vuln).

I just like axe. I like how the #2 and #3 feel, I like how I have some versatility with OH customization, and I like the role it fills next to my Greatsword. I’m also a more aggressive style player, so especially in PvE, I don’t want utility downtime. If ever I was planning on attacking 3+ vets at once, I might actually opt for Staff over Axe, but I don’t usually see packs like that. I kind of wish I did though.

I can guarantee you that I’m far more aggressive of a player. I don’t like camping at range and would much prefer ripping through their defenses and quickly as possible. Which means I don’t want to be on staff or Axe at all. I’d rather be on Dagger/focus, greatsword or in shroud. I don’t want to fool around with a ranged weapon like axe or staff for very long and staff gives me that shroud uptime I often need so I can be more aggressive.

Also on another note. In terms of content the Scepter condi damage compared to staff or axe power damage the scepter easily out damages both of them in my condi reaper set. The condi set provides greater chill up time than my power build and also tend to use CpC which increases survivability. In longer fights, such as champions it isn’t always an option to be in melee range and Condi has greater damage than power in those situations. So I’ve found that condi is more effective because its damage sustain is higher and has more defensive options. Though trash mobs this doesn’t matter at all. This is how its turned out when I’ve tested it, but both have worked very well and I’ll switch based on my mood.

Cogbyrn.7283:

How are you measuring effectiveness, out of curiosity? As far as greater shroud uptime, it seems assumed that you get more LF from Staff #1 spam, but that assumes that mobs are alive. I suppose if you’re fighting a pack of vets they would survive, but any regular mobs I’ve fought so far just get cleaved down within a few seconds, leaving the “main” mob. I really enjoy soloing champions when I find them (if they don’t take forever to kill), and when there’s a single target, Staff’s LF generation is abysmal at best.

I have pretty incredible survivability without the need for Staff with my Cavalier build, so I personally want the damage/LF generation combo from range (and the boon strip, and the additional vuln).

I just like axe. I like how the #2 and #3 feel, I like how I have some versatility with OH customization, and I like the role it fills next to my Greatsword. I’m also a more aggressive style player, so especially in PvE, I don’t want utility downtime. If ever I was planning on attacking 3+ vets at once, I might actually opt for Staff over Axe, but I don’t usually see packs like that. I kind of wish I did though.

If I’m fighting regular mobs they die all at the same time with staff while at the same time only one dies with axe. Give it about 5 seconds. Wells do most the work. I’ve fought a tone of up leveled foes and axe can’t kill them in the 5 second duration and neither can staff but I’ve often and easily gained 20% life force on auto allowing me to dance in shroud and win otherwise unwinnable situations.

A bit. I’ve been playing with other characters so its okay. I really wanted a support elite specialization for necromancer. Next time I hope.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Lily.1935:

I’m not. Its not about weapon strength its about utility. Axe doesn’t provide valuable utility. I’ve said that the damage is slightly higher without the trait.

No one is disputing that the Staff has a lot of utility. At least for PvE, though, I’m finding more and more that I’d really just prefer the higher damage of Axe. Yes, the Staff has potentially more damage on its autoattack if you hit a bunch of targets, but if there are a bunch of targets to kill, generally speaking I find that I can just melee them. The only times I really want/need to attack at range are when there’s a boss with some serious anti-melee mechanics or so much mobility that I’d rather not bother chasing him down, and in both cases the Axe is superior.

Additionally, I think you’re underestimating the Axe’s utility. Putting aside that it gives you a choice in 4 and 5 skills (a pretty big advantage in itself), the vuln-stacking at range is also nice since most of our other Vulnerability requires us to be in melee. What’s more, Unholy Feast has so much utility I actually think it’s right on the edge of being overloaded. Decent AoE damage with a cripple, boon corruption, and some free Retaliation on top of all that (incidentally good for procing Blighter’s Boon, since each hit counts as a separate boon application, though this is a very minor fringe benefit), it’s just a lot of tools for a one-second cast time.

Lily.1935:

And! Not only that if we take into account the strength of Death shroud or reaper’s shroud the staff provides far greater uptime of both of them because of its superior ability to generate life force. Thus increasing your overall damage far beyond that of what the axe could provide.

If you’re using a power build with Soul Reaping, I find you very rarely lack for Life Force. Axe 2 + whatever your offhand weapon is (and maybe the occasionally BB procs from Axe 3) are more than enough to keep you topped off. If PvE, I honestly can’t spend Life Force quickly enough and I haven’t been having any trouble generating LF in PvP, either. Soul Marks has always stuck me as extreme overkill for power builds, particularly when you have to give up either Speed of Shadows or Unyielding Blast for it.

Now don’t get me wrong: I’m nowhere near as down on the Staff as Bhawb is. I think it has its place and, generally, the choice between it and Axe/? comes down to personal preference and the specific content at hand. But Axe/? is good, too, certainly better for single-target damage.

I’ve used axe and staff heavily in the new HoT maps to see which one was more effective. I gave axe a fair shot in that content and I’ve just found that its damage wasn’t nearly high enough to justify the lack of defenses and the poor life force generation that the new maps have required. Fighting a group of Chak, or what have you, the Staff continues to prove its metal, often times allowing me to keep my reaper’s shroud up far longer than with axe. I’ve tested axe in pure berserker and in my Crusader’s set and both times it was under preforming. The life force that I needed just want there and the enemies could more easily run me over.

In situations where I wasn’t outnumbered it honestly didn’t matter which weapon I took. Staff’s damage wasn’t that great in those situations but neither was axe. I would end up spending most my time while using either staff or axe in reaper’s shroud. And since Axe’s life force generation wasn’t good enough I stuck with staff. Staff could more easily break up mobs than axe could and its chill and possible weakness could buffer the damage far easier. When I’m forced to fight at range with the exception of my condi build I’m in a defensive position and my primary concern is survival until I build my life force and can go on the offensive again. Which again, staff excels at here too.

Although in the new maps the absolute greatest success I’ve had with any build has been Condireaper. However Power reaper isn’t a bad option at all, its still extremely good and I’ve used both extensively. But that’s beside the point.

So it boils down to which do you want? Higher survivability, control and greater shroud up time? Or more damage against a single target while you’re not in shroud. And the answer I keep coming back to and the answer that the game’s mechanics keep telling me is that I want staff, always staff, all the time on any build that’s designed to face the content. I have 2 ascended weapons of every single necromancer weapon excluding the axe since I have the legendary axe and I’ve done extensive testing on all of them. the axe always under preforms.

The axe needs work. Major work.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Lily.1935:

spoj.9672:

I’m biased against both.

But here’s some facts about staff versus axe.

Axe auto has 0.77 coefficient total per chain. The chain takes 0.95 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.81.

Staff has 0.66 coefficient total. If you factor in the 10% higher weapon strength you get 0.73 per auto. The auto takes 1.4 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.52.

Axe is quite clearly better. Especially if you take the axe trait. Axe 2 is also a big gain over staff and axe auto’s.

You are quite clearly biased Lily. Because when you look at it objectively the facts speak for themselves.

I’m not. Its not about weapon strength its about utility. Axe doesn’t provide valuable utility. I’ve said that the damage is slightly higher without the trait. But taking the trait strips you of other valuable traits you could be taking instead to make a bad weapon slightly less bad.

And! Not only that if we take into account the strength of Death shroud or reaper’s shroud the staff provides far greater uptime of both of them because of its superior ability to generate life force. Thus increasing your overall damage far beyond that of what the axe could provide.

Another note to consider. Weapon’s damage also factors into the damage of your attacks in Death shroud and reaper’s shroud. And since staff has a higher weapon strength than axe. (Axe being 900-1,100 and staff being 1,034-1,166 respectively).

Less shroud down time means more damage when not using your primary weapon of choice.

Weapon damage only matters in DS not RS. RS weapon is considered a hammer and thus the equipped weapon doesn’t matter.

Staff doesn’t provide a lot more choices than having an option for an OH.

Anyways nobody will be mad if you accept that your are bias. But to claim you are not assumes everyone here is stupid.

actually it does. Just checked for myself.

Its not bias if its true. And its very true. I don’t hate axe. I don’t hate staff. I find that staff is kinda boring to use because, well.. It kinda is. But I can’t argue with how effective it is. Much like I can’t argue with how powerful tarmogoyf is. And I hate that stupid creature.. It doesn’t do anything! its just a fatty!

spoj.9672:

I’m biased against both.

But here’s some facts about staff versus axe.

Axe auto has 0.77 coefficient total per chain. The chain takes 0.95 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.81.

Staff has 0.66 coefficient total. If you factor in the 10% higher weapon strength you get 0.73 per auto. The auto takes 1.4 seconds. Which yields a coefficient per second of 0.52.

Axe is quite clearly better. Especially if you take the axe trait. Axe 2 is also a big gain over staff and axe auto’s.

You are quite clearly biased Lily. Because when you look at it objectively the facts speak for themselves.

I’m not. Its not about weapon strength its about utility. Axe doesn’t provide valuable utility. I’ve said that the damage is slightly higher without the trait. But taking the trait strips you of other valuable traits you could be taking instead to make a bad weapon slightly less bad.

And! Not only that if we take into account the strength of Death shroud or reaper’s shroud the staff provides far greater uptime of both of them because of its superior ability to generate life force. Thus increasing your overall damage far beyond that of what the axe could provide.

Another note to consider. Weapon’s damage also factors into the damage of your attacks in Death shroud and reaper’s shroud. And since staff has a higher weapon strength than axe. (Axe being 900-1,100 and staff being 1,034-1,166 respectively).

Less shroud down time means more damage when not using your primary weapon of choice.

I’m not personally a fan of using dagger on a condition build. Since this is hybrid that’s fine. But I much prefer Scepter+dagger/focus with staff as my secondary weapon over anything else.

Personal preference. Neat build though.

Bhawb.7408:

Lily.1935:

I don’t lose very much damage when switching to a staff from dagger/focus.

That’s just factually inaccurate. Staff’s AA is 58% of the damage of Axe’s, and that’s assuming it even hits, and its a slow projectile vs nonprojectile. Marks hit for 0.3/0.5/1.2/0.25 coefficients, which is again, pathetic damage. Every single mark added together does less direct damage than a single Axe 2, or a single Dagger AA chain – 2.55 vs 2.88/2.8. So you absolutely lose damage, its not debatable.

Also, staff doesn’t keep people in wells. It has a single soft CC to keep people in place, in the form of chill. One dodge and they’re out; or if you fear them they’ll leave on their own.

Its not. The axe does 2 attacks at close to half the damage of the staff’s AA. This is factual. This its testable. Unless you’re playing a different game than I am, this is the case. When attacking with staff its doing 1.3k non-crit to 3.5k crit. Axe is doing a total of about 1.4k non-crit to 3.8k crit in total. The difference is extremely low. And since staff hits multiple targets with its aa, has potentially 3 CCs, 2 soft and one hard. Also, I fear them back into wells. Because I’m good like that. Also… I know how to run both weapons to their optimal performance.

Your pre-conceived bias toward staff is preventing you from seeing it for its massive value and utility. And We’ve been talking for years now. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard you say “I hate staff”. You’ve said it for years and years and blatantly refused to run it. You’ve even said you don’t run it out of spite. How am I or anyone else supposed to take your opinion seriously when you have a vendetta against the weapon?

Klaeljanus.7695:

Lily.1935:

All my testing says axe is bad at everything… I wouldn’t touch it for PvE except for those very fringe situations. I have a berserker’s axe and staff (ascended of course), and I’ve always come to the same conclusion. Its always I need more control, I need more aoe, I need more life force. Something that the staff provides more of in spades than the axe. Even when trying to strip boons the axe under preforms since it only corrupts one boon. Its better for you to just kill your foes flat out than play with boons in PvE.

And to me. Axe is just getting worse and worse. 900 range didn’t give it anything for me. Its still a garbage weapon. And now its a garbage weapon at 900 range and completely impossible to balance it properly because of its incredibly terrible design.

Yeah, for PvE Ax is total garbage compared to staff, I mean, none of the ax attacks can be reflected, compared to massive telegraphs for marks and a joke of an AA for staff. (This is precisely why the Ax auto was changed to drop the damage in the back half of the cast, Rob mentioned this)

You totally can’t get enough burst to kill normal anti-power mob in a few hits.

The idea of using it as an opener, as a way to stack chill, get 15-20+ stacks of vuln, build LF AND get retal on you before you either go to RS, D/Wh or GS? Preposterous!

I get 25 stacks of vuln on mobs by blinking so I don’t see why you’re paragoning the slow vuln stacking that the axe provides. Also, your sarcasm isn’t appreciated. And the Life force building is slower than staff. By a mega ton. Damage isn’t much higher either unless you trait for it. Literally 8 more damage on axe with its auto. I have no issues stacking vuln and sustain 25 stacks without the aid of axe so that isn’t a problem. Its Ghastly claws is a slow channel with a low pay off and the life force from it is actually allot slower than staff. Staff’s Auto can grant you up to 20% life force per hit which means you can spend far less time fiddling with your weapons and get into a real DPS situation, basically death shroud/reaper’s shroud. Its boon stripping its at 600 range still which means your target can and will often be out of its reach anyway. The tells on Axe are extremely noticeable. Just as much as the tells on staff.

The axe needs some serious work. I want it to be my go to power weapon. It just doesn’t preform very well. Which is extremely depressing… Especially considering I built frostfang because I used to love how it felt, even when it wasn’t effective at 600 range. I didn’t care that it under preformed. Now it feels bad and under preforms so I can’t justify using it.

Bhawb.7408:

I dislike staff because if you’re not in a condi build swapping to it says to your enemies “hey guys I’m not going to deal any meaningful damage to you for the next 10 seconds, please wait a bit!”. It just doesn’t have the kind of pressure it would need to compete, and even worse for it, its utility as a utility weapon is incredibly lackluster compared to our other skills.

If you take A/D over staff, you end up losing poison/chill (as if those are rare in necro builds), your condi removal becomes slightly less reliable, and you lose the CC of Fear mark (which is easily made up for with smart Wail of Doom use with your D/WH set). On the flip side, you gain far more significant debuffing of enemies (weakness, cripple, boon corruption, vuln), and you never lose offensive pressure by swapping weapons anymore. The two weapons aren’t objectively better than one another, they fill different goals, and in plenty of builds its a fair swap.

I don’t lose very much damage when switching to a staff from dagger/focus. I do however lose a mega tone of momentum when switching from dagger to axe parried with anything. If you think otherwise you’ve never trapped people in your wells with staff. Which I’ve done on countless occasions. And than just enter Death shroud. Where’s the DPS loss? Why are you concerned about DPS when you’re trying to control the situation and defend? Staff gives you an out. Axe does not.

Its not a bias opinion of mine its performance. If axe actually preformed well I’d only complain about its absolutely terrible paddling animation on females. But when I’m using it and and not paying attention to its animation I’m always thinking “Ugh…. this is just dreadful I could be using staff and not be getting wreaked by everything around me.”

Also, by the way. I don’t often use soul marks. But I like the option.

All my testing says axe is bad at everything… I wouldn’t touch it for PvE except for those very fringe situations. I have a berserker’s axe and staff (ascended of course), and I’ve always come to the same conclusion. Its always I need more control, I need more aoe, I need more life force. Something that the staff provides more of in spades than the axe. Even when trying to strip boons the axe under preforms since it only corrupts one boon. Its better for you to just kill your foes flat out than play with boons in PvE.

And to me. Axe is just getting worse and worse. 900 range didn’t give it anything for me. Its still a garbage weapon. And now its a garbage weapon at 900 range and completely impossible to balance it properly because of its incredibly terrible design.

Sandrox.9524:

Lily.1935:

spoj.9672:

Yeah, as much as i hate axe. I would definitely consider it better than staff. :P

And theres a very simple reason for that. Staff has no use in PvE combat other than afk exploiting in safespots. If you need range on a power build axe is actually better. And for condi builds you will always want to camp scepter for your mainhand.

I disagree. Staff is far better against mobs in PvE and it has far far stronger life force generation than the axe, not only that but it gives you access to chill on two skills for reaper, has a condi cleans and decend damage for its range. yes its SLIGHTLY lower than axe, but not by a whole lot.

Aka, No… its not better than staff….

Pvp prespective, axe is much better and staff only gives utility to the table it got almost 0 dps, less lf regen than axe(unless traited which basically is worse that you need to trait for it while you have a faster movement in reaper shroud that it is a must trait).
Staff is one trick pony, you lay all your marks than wait for #2 mark and spamm it untill weapon switch while axe auto attack more reliable and #2 on short cd and have great lf regen. So utility aside, axe is much better range option and that is coming from somone who adore staff but must admit the truth.

I’ve found axe to be incredibly unreliable. its Life force is absolutely atrocious since people can dodge most the channel which means you’ll be lucky to get 4% life force when you can camp at range with staff. One trick pony? you must be confusing staff with axe because staff has dozens of tricks that gives it amazing utility as the ranged weapon of choice. Axe has one good trick and thats boon stripping. And even that is far out classed on our own profession on other areas. Staff is control, its good for power and condi. Staff is never a primary weapon its always your secondary weapon. but that’s all it needs to be. That’s what its supposed to be. Shortbow fills the same type of role for thief as a secondary weapon but never a primary. Neither of these weapons need to be anything else. The damage difference between axe and staff even is minimal at best.

Staff is a control weapon first. Its defensive, its ranged. Axe is… well… its a power ranged weapon with no notable features. Axe = bad, Staff = good. Not an opinion. I was so excited to run axe when necromancer was first announced for GW2 back in the alphas. I was so excited to run axe on a caster, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. But then in practice it was rather bad. Its never been a good weapon and its damage has been increased several times and decreased recently and increased back up and a little bit stronger. But “A little bit stronger” isn’t justification to run it. Its vuln stacking is minimal and slow at best. Maybe in a power minion build its fine, but even in that situation I’d still use a staff anyway because of its overwhelming utility.

I’ve used both staff and axe in PvP and PvE. Staff always over preforms and Axe always under preforms. Not once has axe proven its metal. Not with 100s of hours of testing both. However, this is one single situation where axe does do better than a staff. When the foe you’re fighting in PvE doesn’t trigger marks… That’s it.

I want to love axe. I want it to be my main ranged power weapon. I’ve even built frostfang in the hopes anet would make real and good changes to the weapon. But now I just have a useless legendary that sits on my character and doesn’t get used.

spoj.9672:

Yeah, as much as i hate axe. I would definitely consider it better than staff. :P

And theres a very simple reason for that. Staff has no use in PvE combat other than afk exploiting in safespots. If you need range on a power build axe is actually better. And for condi builds you will always want to camp scepter for your mainhand.

I disagree. Staff is far better against mobs in PvE and it has far far stronger life force generation than the axe, not only that but it gives you access to chill on two skills for reaper, has a condi cleans and decend damage for its range. yes its SLIGHTLY lower than axe, but not by a whole lot.

Aka, No… its not better than staff….

spoj.9672:

Lily.1935:

Take staff as your ranged weapon instead. Staff, unlike axe is one of the best weapons in the game.

Not really. Think you are getting mixed up with ele.

I’m not. Necro staff is extremely strong for us. lots of utility on it, good against groups and single targets. its 1,200 range gives us spacing that is valuable on both core and reaper. And I never said it was the absolute best weapon in the game either. One of the best. Because it is.

Axe is absolutely terrible. Probably the absolute worst weapon in the entire game across all professions. Its uses are so easily replaced and limited that there is literally no reason to run it in any situation ever.

Take staff as your ranged weapon instead. Staff, unlike axe is one of the best weapons in the game.

Blackari.2051:

Yeah seeing CDs on utilities is the thing i would love to see, but usingthem in DS is bullkitten …. it would be too “OP” and other classes would start QQ about it constantly … aand there we go, another nerf inc.

It wouldn’t be “OP”. It would make necros harder to focus fire, which is a good thing. And probably would actually give us real attrition.

I “main” necromancer. Reaper is more a side thing for me and not the my primary focus. the Elite specialization is currently the strongest bet I can go for aside from Minion master IMO so I use it.

Necromancer at its core has quite a few problems still remaining and reaper isn’t immune to those problems. But That doesn’t stop me from enjoying the reaper in the slightest. Its an absolute power house for sure. And their condi build finally feels good.

I’ve played with both. And I have to say it honestly depends on you. I find that going the second option is easier to sustain yourself with while the first option is a bit stronger. The first option is a bit riskier though as generally speaking if you’re using decimate defenses you want to use weapons outside of shroud such as dagger or greatsword.

I like both of them personally.

So I’m having a bit of a bug. I don’t know if anyone else is having it. But I’ve unlocked the fractal torch a long while before HoT came out and its not showing up as obtained in the achievements. Although it still shows up in the wardrobe.

Once HoT comes out, she’ll have her matching greatsword ready.

Windler.4815:

Lily, you’re missing the point. Yes, this is a useful skill but it’s not giving us the full utility Necros need in PvE. As CPC is right now, it’s better to have a mesmer and guardian deal with projectiles than it is for a necro. It destroyes projectiles (would could increase dps… if you don’t think so see Lupi fights), decreases our damage, and applies low amount of poison and weakness to enemies and ourself? What good does that do? You’re using two instances in fractals, which is more of a bug than what’s intended, to justify this skill in its current form. If you use CPC in PvP, I’d laugh at you and run around you for 8s. You don’t do much damage, the poison is low duration, and the weakness put on me is shorter duration than it is on you. Putting CPC in the well category would decrease it’s cd (not that big of a deal increase the cd if anet has to), applies protection, and causes 110damage/110 healing. Now that would give CPC and necros what they need to get a spot in PvE, ESPECIALLY with raids coming up.

I’m not missing any point. If you’re trying to solo a necromancer and wasting more time on a bunkery style than you’re falling right into a trap already. Good job. I’ve played against players like you who think they can just laugh at my defenses and they waste tones of time trying to fight over a point that I’ve got locked down anyway. And when they get super annoyed they bring 3-4 of their group to take me down. Wasting more time to take out one threat when my team is breaking them on many other fronts.

The benefit of Corrosive poison cloud is a scaling defense which buffers focus fire at the beginning of the fight and allows the necromancer to build life force without taking much if any damage. The method to focus them down is hindered greatly because of this one skill. There are two sides to this coin and the other side is that the necromancer absolutely needs more stability.

To me, it just sounds like a lot of people complaining over absolutely nothing with no real understanding of how powerful this skill is.

Also.. Lupi? Yeah dungeons are unsupported content now and won’t provide the gold reward they used to. Which saying its worse than these other skills because of that one fight is extremely short sighted. A reflect is strong, yes and almost always valuable. Corrosive poison cloud is absolutely vital to a condi build which will be meta soon.

Bhawb.7408:

Lily.1935:

However I’d argue that the power of Corrosive poison cloud is absolutely there for a corruption skill and its worth the weakness 10 fold. Other corruptions such as Corrupt boon, Consume condition and blood is power are not quite at that power level to justify the extra condition.

On any other profession CPC would exist without weakness. It is balanced without the weakness, which means the entire setup is badly designed.

Also, too many of corruption skills are necessary. Consume Conditions is required on too many builds to make the self-harm well designed on it, CPC is our only projectile defense, Corrupt Boon is needed in a variety of burst. These skills are too widely needed to make both the positive and negative effects meaningful enough to build around.

Except you’re very wrong about that. Similar skills which do far far less have either the same cool down and can’t be reduced as far and don’t last nearly as long, 3-6 seconds usually. Most of them are around 5 seconds. Already you’re seeing 3 seconds difference. Another difference is that this provides AoE weakness to the foes in the area. Nerfing potential Melee threats as well as giving you one of the longest projectile blocks in the game on a very short cool down. It also provides 4 stacks of poison a pulse and if you even have a little bit of condi duration it can easily hit 8 stacks.

This skill is exceptional. The added bonus that it can destroy projectiles that other skills can’t such as the Mai Trin Cannons, the ballista and old tom’s attacks makes this even more valuable.

This skill is absolutely every bit as powerful as a corruption skill should be. I don’t like the weakness and crippling while traited, but I can live with the weakness for how devastating this skill is. The crippling sucks majorly and I do think that should be 3 stacks of poison or something.

Corruptions have a very specific flavor that goes back to GW1 and goes even further back to magic: the gathering and Dungeons and Dragons. The Evil/dark mage that is willing to sacrifice anything for power. Normally skills that sacrificed health or applied a condition on you where exceptionally powerful for their cost. With GW2 this doesn’t seem to be the case for most corruption skills and their overall worth isn’t quite there.

However I’d argue that the power of Corrosive poison cloud is absolutely there for a corruption skill and its worth the weakness 10 fold. Other corruptions such as Corrupt boon, Consume condition and blood is power are not quite at that power level to justify the extra condition.

I honestly really HATE these threads because they want to strip away even more awesome flavor to try and make something ultimately weaker to balance it around ideas people have because other professions don’t hurt themselves.

Well we’re not other professions. And sacrificing defenses for extraordinary power should absolutely stay as a part of our flavor. Some skills need to be buffed Like BiP and others like CC need some changes. Most of all that horrendous Master of corruption trait needs to be reworked to provide actual value to us. Blind, crippling and weakness are extremely heavy condition that severally weaken us with little to no pay off. That is the issue. Not the corruptions applying conditions themselves.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hmmm, new amulets. Aside from zealots, anything else you folks think would be interesting?

I’d like some Pure valkyrie Amulets, rings and accessories. Not the Berserker/valkyrie mix that is provided to us currently.

Although Some Primary power with secondary Toughness and Furosity would be nice as a stat combo for all armor and weapon types.

Hmm. What about Primary Condition damage with precision and condition duration? I’d be really interested in that for at least part of my gear.

Primary healing power with toughness and vitality.

Primary Furosity with power and precision.

Dual primary of Power/toughness with Minors in Furosity and healing power. similar to the amulet you get in PvP

I’d really like to see exotic and ascended gear that have 4 stats rather than just 3 like a few of the trinkets. Along with a bit of a stronger focus like they have in PvP. Bring Marauder and Crusader to PvE. I’d like that.

Tim.6450:

Ok that was “enlightening”. So how how about instead of replacing a decent pve trait with a terrible PvE trait, we switch MoC with LC and buff/fix MoC? That way the PvE usefull traits for condition builds are in both master/ grandmaster not master/master. The fact that a utility trait is a grandmaster has not ever bothered anyone.

I was actually thinking about that for a while now. Though how to buff it is a different story. Effectively if its given resistance its only a slightly better/worse Demonic Defiance and we run into the same problem. Having the corruptions skills buffed in some way could be neat. But I don’t know how that’d work out. Consume condition is already really powerful and I don’t know if buffing that or giving it resistance would be a good idea in the long run.