Guild Wars 2

Blackagar.1052:

Maybe those are minions for you, but for me they’re zombies that you can repair, control and modify with black magic. As long as they’re weaker than me they’re a minion in my book. They die and I summon a new one.

Zombies are pretty disposable and replaceable. They directly fall under that Zerg idea. Thats what they do, zerg. They aren’t sophisticated, they aren’t particularly strong and they tend to be easily dispatched. Now this is refering to RPGs and not Movies, since movies make them Zerg on steroids.

But non the less, the point of the MM was to overwhelm with numbers. Quantity not quality. Now when I say that I’m not saying minion should have buggy AI, or just be dispatched in one hit. Right now Minions, all minion skills aside from Blood fiend and flesh golem, are rather low quality skills. But they don’t provide the Quantity to make up for their low quality. Its why you don’t see players running them too often, except maybe as a joke.

Quality, Such as Pets have quite a few skills, higher damage and health and are far easier to command. They give or receive buffs and aid in battle. They are more a companion than a minion. And that’s the pets intention.

For Minions the necromancer even says “Its my fault for making them so disposable.” And that’s their point. They should be Disposable. Overwhelm with numbers, not quality. The other quote “I hand raised that minion!” is a joke. The character shouting that actually doesn’t care at all that the minion died, because she’s supposed to have 10 more at stand by.

If you look at other fantasy games or stories, Zombies primary strategy in all of them is to overwhelm. There is no complex tactics with them. In some cases they even physically create a tidal wave of corpses. They are specifically designed as a force that overwhelms, not a covert tactical force of what you want. They are not sophisticated, they are not supposed to be high quality. Only Flesh golem has that honor.

Of course this is also kinda the argument of the Stitcher vs the summoner. The Sticher being like Frankenstein and the summoner being more like a Lich lord.

Blackagar.1052:

Personally. I hate any kind of “zerg” whether than be people or minions, the idea of throwing a trillion rats at my enemy and they die is annoying to me. I’d rather have a couple decent pets that require some activity to control with some passive ease as far as being “minion master goes”.

If you don’t like that play a Ranger! Minions are supposed to be disposable and rather weak on their own.

Minion master has always been a rather fumbling build in Guild wars 2, sometimes its been good, usually buggy and most the time its just been rather bad. There was a single glorious time when Minions were amazing(And I know they’ve been decent in PvP from time to time, but i’m going to ignore that for the time being. If you wish to talk about it feel free but this is more a general improvement post.). However now minions have once again taken the back seat to more reliable builds.

Anyone who’s read my previous posts on minions in the past knows that I feel that minion masters should be an active role rather than a passive one and that the necromancer should take part in their maintenance to sustain them. You’d also know that When it comes to minions I favor the zerg mentality of having a dozen weaker minions swarming the foe over a couple of strong minions. So that’s what this suggestion is going to be focused on, but without changing the over all feeling of the Minion master.

Looking back to the one time that minions were amazing in PvE we see a build that only ran a single minion skill. Blood Fiend. The build was a condi build that used a blood fiend and relied on Lich lord to sustain the bulk of its force. The build was reminiscent of the GW1 minion build Aura of the Lich. However, the issue with this build was that, although it did benifit from the minion traits it didn’t use the minion skills. I’m going to suggest some changes that will incentivize play more minion skills be added to the skill bar so the traits get used with the intended skills.

1. Jagged Horrors: You’d be hard pressed to find a necromancer player who agrees with the nerf to these little guys. Although most would probably agree they needed a nerf, the one that was implemented was overkill. Not only did it kill the intended build but it killed a Grandmaster trait and any new builds with minions popping up in PvE. Jagged horrors should have a change back to their former glory, only this time limit their numbers not their duration. 8 at one time seems like a good limit on them. This lets you use Lich if you want to but also allows people not using it to slowly build to that number. Once a new jagged horror is created though the oldest horror should automatically die, just like how minions worked in GW1.

2. Death Nova: The 15 second mark is fine on this, however I’d like to suggest one change. Whenever a minion you control dies you spawn a jagged horror. Just as a side note. This would make it function much like Jagged bones in GW1 and give you a good reason to sacrifice minions on your skill bar. Although I think this benefit should only apply to Minion Skills and not all skills that just so happen to summon minions. This way we can further incentivize minion masters to take actual minion skills.

3. Bone Minions: The fact that this skill summons only 2 minions is criminally low. Especially when compared to both “Rise” and Lich form. Its unclear to me how many minions this skill should summon, but I’ve been stuck on 5. Its recharge might need to go up a little bit, but not too much as these guys don’t pack too much damage on their own. But this skill should be the back bone of any minion build. Yet its left to fester on the skill bar as a skill not even MM’s will touch. 2 minions is very clearly too low. And I will admit that 5 might be a bit too high for PvP. So lets just make the 5 for PvE than. So how it works.

4. Minor Improvements to other minion skills: This one is a bit hard to place for me in terms of what should be changed on other minion skills. So I’ll leave it open to everyone else to reply. What do you guys think? How should the others be improved if at all?

Please leave a comment and as always, keep it civil.

I’m going to argue with myself for a moment and explain why this crazy idea wouldn’t be implemented.

Other players as minions is Super flavorful and really cool in concept! However it would be pretty busted in many situations because of the traits the necromancer has for minions.

Flesh of the Master Would be the first issue we see, though their health degen would counter that. But that’s still a 50% health increase from their starting health. If you res a warrior for example that could be close to 30k health with no other modifiers on him.

Necromantic Corruption Is even worse. As powerful as Flesh of the master would be NC would be that much more. Sure every 10 seconds that player pulls a condition from you, and that’s all good and dandy, but each attack they do would transfer conditions. They’d be almost immune to it and they attack far more frequently than an actual minion. Worse still is that massive 25% damage increase! That would just be insanely powerful! Their damage couldn’t even be nerfed with weakness.

Death Nova honestly wouldn’t be that big of a deal… Its not that good of a trait now.

Vampiric would be interesting. Not as good but its another option to think about.

So you see, my idea is completely unbalanced. But that’s the point. Its a joke. Truthfully, Signet needs some major work on it and reducing its cool down and cast time might help it, but it wont be enough without some actual support for a real healer/support build for the necromancer.

Khailyn.6248:

While it might be overly complicated, how about a combat rez from defeated state but their hp bar is replaced by a soul bar that can only be partially refilled by enemies around dying and slowly decays like our shroud. they’ll still die again but they can postpone their unlife. healing effects wouldnt work on them.

I’m for that. I just want to feel like an actual necromancer.

Okay, this is going to be an odd one. But hear me out. Signet of Undeath is one of those forgotten Resurrection skills that gets glossed over. its slow, has a massive cool down and its passive is pretty mediocre for its over all cost. (the cost being a utility slot you could use for better things…)

So how should SoU be fixed? Well, the simple solution would be to drop its cast time to 2 seconds and reduce its recharge from 150 seconds to 120 or even 90 seconds. But Oh No! I’m not going to suggest that, that would be too easy.

SoU should revive people to full health from the defeated state, even in raids. Now I know what you’re thinking “Lily, that’s way too over powered but good groups wouldn’t bring that with them anyway so it wouldn’t change anything.” And I think you have a great rather specific point dear reader! So that isn’t quite what I’m getting at. OH NO! SoU should focus on the UNDEATH aspect of the skill.

What do I mean by that? Well, Sure, they’re revived. But they’re not actually alive if you get what I’m saying. What I mean is, they are now your Minions! For the duration of the signet if they were not revived while downed but rather defeated they return with health degeneration and now count as Minions. And yes, that means they benefit(As well as you do too) from minion traits that’ll modify their damage, health and abilities.

You might say “Lily! that’s not in the game engine for that to work and that would actually be kinda OP if you really think about it.” Sure, you are most likely correct in that assumption. Which is why this is more of a Joke topic. Even if it is something I secretly wish I could do as a necromancer.

Khailyn.6248:

hmm and here I thought the design philosphy of necromancer was, have what other classes have, but worse, and it costing you and arm and a leg to use it (figuratively and literally). seriously tho, I agree with where youre going with this the whole ‘victory at any cost’. The buff youre suggesting through sounds a lot like what druids have with grace of the land. But considering AN gave revenants alacarity, maybe down the line necros could get a similar skill to GotL.

It was an example, more than anything. It could be something else entirely. Maybe life stealing or a buff that makes allied attacks bleed foes on contact. It doesn’t have to be that, but the pay off shouldn’t conflict with existing buffs other professions provide that are just better executed.

Also.. Dat Sarcasm. lol.

Donari.5237:

I agree that I would like lore journeys as part of the elite unlocks.

However, I fear that you are too late in your request. We’re probably under half a year from the expansion’s release. Huge chunks of it are already locked in, no doubt, or at least major concepts and mechanisms are. Tailored lore journeys take a long time to produce, so if we’re getting them, they’re already mostly written. If they’re not already written, they won’t be by launch.

I mean, I think something similar to this might be the case for the elite specs? But its hard to say. Lore is an important part of the game IMO. So this is something I’m really excited about.

Wooden Potatoes mentions something similar a little while back and I agree with him on the Hero points.. I think if they use those it will trivialize part of the experience.

BassHunteR.7246:

WvW getting some attention..
O wait not gonna happen.
Not going to pay $50 for some new spec.

THis post isn’t about WvW in the slightest. You want to complain, you have dozens of other places to do that.

When I brought this skill up to one of my guildies the other night it turned out that he didn’t know that BiP applied 10 stacks of might to people in a 240 radius. This wasn’t too surprising but they were familiar with the skill and its uses, but this got me thinking. Might is often given out like candy across a few different profession who just do it better. And rather than suggesting that BiP be a viable means of competing with that I though why not go a different direction?

If there is one Philosophy that the necromancer doesn’t embody with any other skill type in the game other than corruptions its the very Philosophy that they are attributed to in pop culture. Which they themselves embodied in GW1. And that Philosophy is “Power! At any cost.” The reason I like corruptions as a skill type is because they are in their design supposed to be extremely powerful skills that have a very heavy price for using them. Power at any cost. However BiP doesn’t really feel like it. Its a decent DPS boost, but it could easily be replaced in the future for that and often times its DPS boost isn’t usually worth it if you fail, often draining you of HALF your life. Thats an extremely sizable chunk, but the question is what are we getting for that? In GW1, we had sacrifice skills which would provide a massive benefit to us or allies. For Blood of the master you could sacrifice about the same amount of health you’d lose from BiP, however the pay off was that you could sustain 12 minions that each struck with the power of about a warrior auto attacking. The Protection it gave your party and the wall of zerg damage that it helped to sustain we often well worth that life loss. BiP in GW1 could sustain multiple healers energy bar through long fights and it sacrificed 33% of your health. And it was worth it. Even losing 17% from Blood Ritual was often just good enough to bring along. But these sacrifice skills where highly impactful for the party. BiP in GW2 is a minor DPS boost for you and pretty superfluous in a party.

So what am I going to suggest? Well, why does it have to be a boon? Why not still have the incredibly painful drawback it currently has but have a sort of “Awaken the blood” type effect that gives a Buff to you and your allies. Perhaps a flat damage increase like 10% physical and condi damage. Perhaps increase everyone stats for 10 seconds. Its in the name. But a flat increase not linked to a boon would allow for it to stack nicely with other profession without stepping on the toes of others. BiP is an extremely painful skill and it should reward you greatly for that price you’ve payed. “Power at any cost.”

Aylpse.6280:

I haven’t been keeping up with the leaks past the images. Will this be a true support like Druid/Tempest or is it more of a way to give Guard condi with some support? If not, what class is getting a support spec?

Most likely yes. The tomes are an old Skill type that the Guardian had and was taken out of the game due to their clunky use. They were fan favorites, but they just didn’t work very well at the time. The skills they had though were extremely good for support. Though Tome of Wrath was focused more on Party Buffs and Burning and Tome of Courage would provide Regen and protection while having a massive AOE healing cone that could heal for an extremely sizable amount.

In another leaked Image I’ve seen the Guardian has 8 Diamonds next to the tomes on their bar (Aka, tomes are replacing Virtues) on the right side of it. They were grey in the image, however My speculation is that they will have a slight glow to them and turn blue when they are filled, similar to Thief’s initiative. However, how they are filled isn’t yet know. My speculation is its going to be linked to boon application and those diamonds will be charges that can be spent on the tome’s skills. This is just speculation on how it works though.

Although I find it extremely funny that Anet is jumping through all these hoops to try and make different professions into healers by using the same mechanical philosophy that a certain light armored profession already has built into her…. Hmmm……

InsaneQR.7412:

Lily.1935:

InsaneQR.7412:

Best thing about the new E-Spec concept so far are the new F abbilities.
Looks like we get more options to pick boys.

I’m a bit curious about it because Kalla was a leader. So you think she might play into support once again a bit? Some of the Icons do suggest that.. Hmm. Although Condi support is never a bad thing.

Yeah and maybe the skills are varying depending on legends. This could give us more diversity. Maybe we could have some kind of range CC role and effects depending on the current legend using.

I’d like to see some method to regain energy other than through Legend swapping or passive regen. This is probably the biggest disconnect between GW1 and GW2 energy. Energy management was an active mechanic in GW1. GW2 with revenant its kind of passive. Which makes it less fulfilling imo.

This is going to be a simple topic that I’d like to talk about for the Next expansion, whenever that might be. I will not be discussing leeks in any capacity in this post and I’d kindly ask that no one else post anything involving it as well. This is merely Discussing a feature already in GW2 that I’d like to see expanded for the expansion involving the Elite specializations.

With that said, what is it I’m talking about. HoT had a collection for each of the elite specs to obtain an ascended weapon. Which was a great way to motivate players to extend their play time in the new maps. Though I personally feel that the methods of going about getting these weapons didn’t feel all that unique for the professions and ultimately was fairly shallow content. Arena net have Since Improved this sort of thing with new collections but I’d like to see more unique Questing style like we got with Caladbolg with instances and possibly dialog involving each profession.

One of my Biggest Criticisms about the HoT expansion is the method in how you learned your elite specialization. Although I understand that they didn’t want to splinter players off from each other in different directions, I feel that giving each Profession a unique path to walk, either through a collection for a new armor set or something that dives into the lore of each elite spec will help to increase play ability across multiple profession and give a better understanding about how each of them fit into the lore of GW2.

Now I wont say that Anet should go back and do this for HoT, that ship has sailed. However I’d really like to see more lore and a more unique path when playing with my elite spec. I’d probably suggest Scrapping Hero points entirely and link it to a questing system, however I’d understand if Arena net is hesitant to do this. One issue with using Hero points though is it does harm part of the experience for Players like myself who have over 300 hero points as is, and the idea of scaling the hero points up even more to fit the new content so its not trivialized leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Of Course they could just use a new type of hero points and call it something else so that 300 I have now would be useless. Which is not ideal but In my opinion I really want my discovery of the new elite spec to be a Journey and not just a reward for completing all of the hero challenges in the core game and HoT. I want to work for it. I want feel like I’m whatever it is I’m going for.

Give me your thoughts on this. This is something I’d like to see. Let me know what you think. Anything you’d change, add to this? Feel free to respond.

InsaneQR.7412:

Best thing about the new E-Spec concept so far are the new F abbilities.
Looks like we get more options to pick boys.

I’m a bit curious about it because Kalla was a leader. So you think she might play into support once again a bit? Some of the Icons do suggest that.. Hmm. Although Condi support is never a bad thing.

“THIS IS MY WRATH! THIS IS MY WRATH! THIS IS MY WRATH!”

Sorry…. Excited. I admit I liked Dragonhunter but it really wasn’t what I was looking for when playing Guardian. HYPE! sorry….

I was expecting a charr or a Norn legend actually. It just made sense with what we already got. So the Fact that its Kalla is not at all surprising to me. I actually mentioned a while back when arguing with people on the forums here that the Revenant will never get a Ritualist elite spec that the Next one was very likely to be Charr or Norn. So Go me!

Zephar.4519:

I really want to stay open to new iterations of Necromancer, but at some point we’ll need a new profession name; as I said earlier, we literally do not do anything that the name suggests.
It would be very much like having a Thief who can’t Steal.

This has always been a curiosity for me in terms of GW2. Anet made it so that Nodes don’t diminish when one player takes it only that player uses that up. Which was a great idea and one we take for granted today but is absolutely a great thing to lessen the hostility between players. So my question than becomes why hasn’t arena net used this same concept with corpses for the necromancer? Its always been a rather questionable decision in my opinion. I think it has to do with minions causing a server crash but we often have 8+ minions for minion builds already… so.. um.. What gives anet?

IF arena net is to focus on the minion master with a new elite specialization I’d hope that they used this node technology to support minion masters.

Shaogin.2679:

So all this talk about constraining the Necromancer to these 3 pillars or others talking about how Necro shouldn’t have a viable power build or specialization

I never said that.

Wintermute.5408:

Well, in a perfect world I think elite spec should encompass at least 2 aspects. Because it’s hard to care about new build possibilities if elite doesn’t offer anything worth a kitten to your playstile. Just look at Scrapper.

I’ll counter that argument with Druid.

Zero Solstice.9754:

To be fair, both of those playstyles existed prior to HoT. For quite a while Minion Master was actually a fully valid way of playing PvP on a Necromancer; I did it myself quite well for a long time. I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t a valid way of PvEing on the class. Condition Necro was also a slow burn, soft CC DoT spec for WvW prior to HoT. It was like playing the game on Hard Mode, outside of the short span of Dumbfire, but it was valid and interesting. Reaper gave Deathly Chill to the DoT aspect, and it gave (arguably) a better Shroud and “Rise!” to the Minion Master builds. While this makes for more of a sidegrade for Minion Master, it’s definitely an upgrade to the DoT specs.

I never said they didn’t. I was talking about community expectations. But I did mention this about the reaper that it seemed to embrace at least 2 of the 3 pillars for a while. At least until Jagged horrors got nerfed….. A decision I still think they executed the wrong way. The reaper did help players understand what it was the necromancer was supposed to do, it just did it in a way that was pandering to an old mentality the community as a whole had. But it itself wasn’t good enough in that very system. Which is strange imo.

As for Minion masters prior to HOT? Well, they had fringe use in PvP but where honestly too buggy for the longest time and taking them was an active mistake in all content. Luckily that was fixed. No one like pacifist minions. But again, I never said these didn’t exist. I said that the Reaper should have encouraged one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer’s design. And it encouraged 2 of them. Although I mentioned that this seemed to be an accident rather than intent based on the fact that the reaper seems to have absolutely nothing in terms of traits or its design in the greatsword and reaper’s shroud to support either the Condi or Minion design. Condi has one single trait in Deathly Chill and the MM gets Rise. But those aren’t the focus of the reaper’s design. The fact that they at one point or now pushed the reaper so heavily into condi and/or MM was never the intention of the elite spec. It wasn’t supposed to be the primary option the reaper was supposed to take. Just a side thing to kinda sorta sate that part of the community. The reaper at its core was designed almost entirely for the Berserkers only crowed.

Crinn.7864:

Lily.1935:

Note to self: I really got to stop writing Essays on the Forums…. Very few people even read them.

There isn’t much that can really be discussed on the topic. Discussing whether condi reaper should be toned down when we get a condi elite, is kinda dependant on us having a condi elite in the first place. We don’t even know if the next elite will be condi, since that assumption is hinged entirely on the torch leak, which didn’t actually specify that it was condi.

The topic is about warped expectations of the community vs the theme of the profession. The Reaper is the result of the warped expectations of what the community thinks they wanted. The discussion has way more than enough to go on than just the reaper. But the reaper is a good example of this. I’m trying to gag the community on what it is they believe about the profession while also giving my perspective. I want to understand why without making blind assumptions.

Note to self: I really got to stop writing Essays on the Forums…. Very few people even read them.

Although I’m not going to suggest that the reaper’s Condi build should be nerfed, I think that ridiculous considering DoT is one of the necromancer’s Pillars and Reaper is the only real viable way to run that. But what I would suggest is that the condi build eventually be toned down once a Proper condi elite specialization comes out and to push the focus of reaper in its original direction.

But that might be a minor point.. When reaper was announced, I was… Upset… It wasn’t at all what I wanted or signed up for when I made a necromancer. I wanted to play as the DoT profession. That’s what I desired because I loved that play style. I wanted the Minion master to be viable and for our attrition to get a major boost and overhaul. The reaper provided non of that. To me the reaper at its announcement was pandering to what the community was conditioned to think they wanted and stripping away the identity that the necromancer was supposed to have. But as I’ve mentioned it didn’t seem to play out that way, however that is a bit worry some for me as I’d honestly like to see a proper condi elite spec down the line. And not this shallow version of condi that reaper provides.

My personal believe in this regard is that clearly defining the reaper is the Heavy hitting power house with large sweeping attacks that just KO enemies in one to two hits and the Scorch as the DoT that bleeds and burns the foe in molten glass would my preferred way to go. The power necro players still very much exist in the game, and they do deserve to play with something that fits what they want. But I personal feel that reaper is and SHOULD be what they want because by its design it is exactly what they had been asking for for years. While Although us DoT players got what we want indirectly through related changes, we still don’t quite have the right fit in reaper. Its functional, and is fun to play, but it is still a rather hollow experience.

My feelings on this topic is that I’d like to see a far stronger focus on the 3 pillars of the necromancer. And much of my suggestions in all the years I’ve been playing has been along those lines. The Berserkers only mentality is dead and I’d like to bury that mentality and completely sate that desire in the community purely with the reaper elite spec and have it over with so we can move on to far more interesting elite specs that truly expand on that original philosophy.

For years the community had screamed to break the pillars of what the necromancer was and with Heart of Thorns the Devs finally caved and gave the community exactly what we thought we wanted. We demanded a cleaving weapon. We got two. We wanted heavy power. We got it. However this is where the story takes a bit of a strange turn of events.

The Skills and Traits of the reaper elite specialization, although heavily set up in favor of power and in deed were design with the communities tunnel vision berserker’s only stance the devs sneaked in something that slowly edged the community to embrace the pillars that the necromancer was founded on. Now, I’m not going to say that this was their intention. I feel that this is an accident more than anything, however I feel that this might lead to a problem for future elite specs for our profession.

The Condi Reaper is currently the most popular and successful necromancer build to date. Yet the community often feels cheated by this, thinking that power is what the necromancer is supposed to be when it never was. But the community has comfortable slid into one of the intended roles that we were advertised on yet there still is back lash to this because the community had been conditioned to view condi negatively from the first few years of GW2. Yet I feel that the community really doesn’t understand why they feel that way and its always been a barrier for discussion between me and the rest of the community.

My perspective has always been that the necromancer should always have the most versatile and powerful condition build in the game, they should have almost lich level of difficulty to kill in some builds and that Zerg ability of the minion master. Those 3 styles of builds were always what I personally was interested in playing for the necromancer and those 3 styles were exactly what the necromancer was advertised on. Yet we’ve only recently gotten 2 of those styles available to us and only for a short period of time before being nerfed into decent territories or completely unusable.

The reaper is a bit of a problem in my opinion in this regard. Its designed to be a power spec yet it seems to be convincing people that its a condi spec. Something it was never intended to be. I personally feel that Arena net should have absolutely strengthened one of those 3 pillars with the necromancer’s first elite spec but they seemed keen on catering to a mentality that they themselves obsoleted with the changes they put in place before the expansion came out.

Now the necromancer does fit in the theme of those 3 pillars far better than before but the reaper is running on old philosophy and its design is being punished because of that. And Subsequently new elite specs for the necromancer could pay for this mentality that influenced the reaper’s design.

This is a topic I’ve been thinking about for a few days and I’d like to get the community’s perspective on it. All are welcome in this conversation since this is going to be a discussion about expectations of the profession when starting the game and of opinions based on how the game teaches you to play the game. So if you do make a response I’d ask you to both explain why you wanted to play the necromancer when you first picked it up, when you started and express any surprises, good or bad, that you experienced when learning this profession.

For the majority of the necromancer’s life in GW2 it seems that the theme of the profession was in direct conflict with the way players are conditioned to play the game. The necromancer was advertised as a attrition profession that uses DoT tactics in order to slowly eat at your opponents life and capabilities to give them an up hill battle as the fight progressed. The profession was also supposed to fill the Pet play style that we see with Warlocks, Witch doctors or summoners in other games. At face value this is an attractive perspective for players. However the issues of this style at the game’s launch ended up in direct conflict with the design of the game and how it was telling its players to play.

This is were we get into the play conditioning of this Discussion. Very quickly in the game’s life people realized that the necromancer couldn’t achieve anything that it was advertised to be able to do. And the balance team seemed intent on suggesting that it was by design that way. However that design lead the necromancer to be one of the most hated and weak professions through its entire life. Much of the community early on abandoned the idea that the necromancer was supposed to be the DoT profession since DoT was neither a viable strategy but the necromancer actively didn’t even compare to warriors in that regard who would push their bleed stacks off just by fighting normally. A fundamental element of the necromancer’s design was lost in the minds of the community except for the most hard core of GW1 vets who still desired to play the DoT style they enjoyed from GW1.

In this laps of memory of the community in one of the necromancer’s pillars of design we ended up asking for extremely off color requests that ran directly contradictory to the necromancer’s design. We as a community started to ask for high DPS options outside of Condition or the swarm element of our minions or even attrition. The three pillars that the profession was built on. People were asking to be more like a warrior with the necromancer. Now I’m not going to say that the community was in the wrong in that regard. It honestly isn’t our fault this happened. It is the fault of Arena net in the way they conditioned their player base to think about content. DPS as quickly as possible and be as glassy as possible. Necromancer wasn’t the only profession to fall victim to this philosophy that the devs accidentally set up in their game but it is one of the most obvious professions that has lasting consequences because of it.

Um… Reaper was intended to be a power elite spec with a condi option. So the likely hood of Scourge being power, especially considering that the rumored weapon is torch, is extremely unlikely. Far far more likely is a condi elite spec and maybe MAYBE support if it truly is inspired by Palawa Joko. Which the most iconic support skills the necromancer has had in the past, that they no longer have are Orders.

I for one am expecting the Auto in Sand Shroud to cause bleeding and possibly burning along with sand and glass related attacks. Maybe even Savannah heat. Perhaps pushing an idea of a shroud based condi build as opposed to a shroud based power build of which the necromancer currently has plenty of power shroud builds.

bearshaman.3421:

I think her preference is simple. She would like to see a good 1200 range build in the future, and she would like to see necro have a good support role which it lacks right now. I am uncertain if condi has to be a part of this, but those are what I took away from what Lily is saying.

The only support we have is boon corruption, condi management, and life steal. All pretty unique, but not in high demand, sadly.

You are correct. Condi doesn’t have to be part of it although I was saying that Since we are already in the midline anyway might as well have that option.

My preference for a good long range supportive build would be Spirit ritualist elite spec…. But that’s a completely different topic.

Obtena.7952:

You claim condi reaper shines in midrange as reaper, OK. You’ve said you would prefer would be pure ranged DPS or Condi range/support, OK. My point is that Scepter build gives you exactly a Condi range support build that you prefer to have; reaper traited or not. I don’t get your fixation on some mid/back line difference other than the one you elude to in Vale Guardian. I mean, overall, Necro has a pretty bad 1200+ range options, so I think the complaint you have is just a lack of good damage 1200+ range options, not really related to condition damage?

You don’t see players asking specifically for Necromancer support. its nice if they happen to have it but when compared to other professions who do similar support, such as Druid or warrior their isn’t a real comparison. Necromancer support is by far weaker than all other professions when compared 1 for 1.

My complaint however was always about personal preference. An opinion. I don’t find them sticking to midrange to be a problem. Because its not. My preference was made abundantly clear. However the statements I’ve made about their capabilities and their effectiveness compared to other professions and their own elite spec are not opinions. Those are fact that we can and have tested.

Obtena.7952:

I think the hang up here for me is that you keep referring to the reaper condition build as well as a problem with midrange lacking support. I can’t see how midrange lacking support is a condition build issue. I also don’t think that it’s very relevant to use a hybrid build like Reaper Condi as a focus on complaining about condi builds for Necros.

The Core Necro Scepter build addresses the range issue and the support issue. If you want a build that keeps you at range, gives you support and excels at condition damage as a Necro, it exists.

No… I said its not my personal preference(AKA its my opinion. I’ve made that abundantly clear.). Also, Core necromancer’s DPS is inferior to Reaper DPS. Its also inferior in terms of its ability to escape, gap close and control. For support the options for Core necromancer are just as limited as Reaper, there is no difference in their support because they are both limited to the same support. In terms of ally supporting traits they exist exclusively in Blood magic so its not like you lose the option to take blood magic if you take reaper. There isn’t 2 support specializations you could be taking along with curses that Reaper is replacing. it isn’t. And you are not locked out of using any of your utility skills or weapons by taking reaper. So that argument isn’t valid, I’m sorry to say.

Core necro does not address the ranged issue. Tainted Shackles, Corrosive poison cloud, Scepter, off hand Dagger all fall in Midrange. You also have to understand that Midrange is a sub catagory of range. Its still a ranged build but its effectiveness is not at the back line but Mid line. This is an important distinction I’ve been making that you keep missing.

Lily.1935:

snip

In my opinion, the design of the Reaper’s condi builds being Midrange at their most effective is not a problem. Its not my preference, but its not a problem. My Issue with it is simply that if I’m going to be in Midrange, I’d like to support a bit more or I’d like a as effective or close to as effective at 1,200 range as I am at 400. But this isn’t the case.

Arena Net seems to have designed the necromancer to favor Midrange. This is evident with its death shroud design along with its weapon design at the game’s release. However they’ve since started realizing that we haven’t been effective in this, so changes have taken place like Axe going from 600 to 900 range and the distance clause being removed from life blast. But the residual design choice to balance necromancer around the midrange distance is still hard wired into the profession. Reaper on the other hand was designed specifically with melee in mind and a consequence of that when playing a dedicated ranged build such as Condi reaper means that in spite of what you might want to do you’ll always be more effective dipping into Melee to execute your shroud skills. Luckily you can do that. But this doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want an elite spec that breaks us away from this short distance mold or at least provides us with some amazing support while we’re stuck at midrange anyway.

Obtena.7952:

Even just referring to effectiveness, I still don’t understand your complaint. There are a few condi builds, all effective and with reasonable DPS and they can be made to focus on a few different things each. I think it’s a common error to overlook Scepter as a good option for Condi on Necro; the fast bleed stack build on reaper version isn’t better than the sustainable, constant pressure that you get with the core Necro version.

I don’t really see how Condi scepter build not fulfilling a condi ranged support role. It does that more than adequately. I guess more details or specific examples would be necessary to understand you complaint better.

You are making a very strange assumption there. You assume that the scepter isn’t being used in the most effective condi necro build(It is) and that what you seem to be suggesting is that it is the sole pillar of the build that determines if you are Ranged, Midranged or Melee. So I think i’m going to have to explain a few things on why the reaper condi build is a midrange build at its most effective.

But first what is a ranged build as opposed to Midrange? Well a ranged build uses primarily ranged abilities in order to maintain what its trying to do. In this instance, DPS. A Midrange build on the other hand works best between the front and the backline. A purely ranged build would be primarily from 800-1,200 range though it can dip as close as 600. A midrange build sticks around 400-900 primarily and can dip as close as Melee. The necromancer’s builds primarily fall into Midrange even before Reaper but reaper takes that a step further and pushes them more on the side of Midrange. We can see this with its abilities.

Scepter and OH Dagger both function as Long range but can fall comfortably in midrange, though Midrange is a subcategory of ranged and few weapons actually fall into a pure long range subcategory. Revenant Hammer and Mesmer Greatsword would both be long range weapons specifically because their effectiveness is tied to their distance from the target. The scepter doesn’t have this but because it can’t strike at 1,200 range it is already closer to midrange and is just as effective at midrange but not as effective at long range.

Now lets look at some of the common abilities the reaper will often use in a Condi build. How many of those abilities are actually long range as opposed to Midrange or even Melee? All shouts are midrange with their 600 aoe, so common skills like “Suffer” and “Chill to the bone” firmly fall into Midrange. Blood Is power has a 1,200 range but their is a kicker with that skill. BiP is technically a supportive skill which means it is most effective at Midrange and I’ll explain that in a bit. Corrosive poison cloud, another common option is 900 range but has a little extra reach, so this can be argued that it works as a powerful ranged ability. Now the necromancer’s and by extension the reaper’s most powerful skill is a long ranged ability. Epidemic. However it is useless without conditions to spread so you need to rely on other abilities in order to achieve its potential.

Some of the reaper’s most Powerful DPS comes from its rotation using reaper’s shroud. Soul Spiral along with Executioner’s Scythe in combination with Deathly Chill should incentivise you to go into melee. And since you want to use that off cool down this will firmly stick you into Midrange. Its easy to get into Melee at midrange or long range from Midrange. Its useful for the Midrange fighters.

Now I’m going to explain what I was saying earlier about BiP. The Midrange line is most effective for supportive characters. Some Support characters can function very well at long range, but the most effective spot is mid. Mid gives you access to both your long ranged allies and melee allies. This is even more applicable when we think about the typical range of supportive abilities in GW2 which often have a radius of 600 or as low as 240(in BiP’s case). The necromancer’s support is no acceptation to this. Vampiric presence has a radius of 600 as well as transfusion.

The Reaper’s Condi build is at its most effective in Midrange. However, this becomes a problem for fights like Vale guardian that would prefer a dedicated long ranged combatant or dedicated melee combatant as a condi or raw DPS. The necromancer doesn’t have effective Melee DPS and its ranged DPS is limited pretty heavily by a few of its skills being in melee, locked at 600 range and never reaching as far as 1,200 range. All of this combine sticks the Reaper firmly in Midrange without the high quality of support that is afforded to other professions.

Obtena.7952:

^^ There is no requirement to play reaper and being midranged as a condi build … unless you are letting someone dictate how you should play; the game doesn’t do that to you. Complaints are realistic if it’s the game that limits you, not players.

No there isn’t a requirement but I was primarily talking about effectiveness. Necromancer reaper absolutely shines in Midrange as condi. And shines in melee as power. You are not required to do so but you will take a loss in DPS if you decide to go against its design. Like I said before though, My complaint about this isn’t harping against the Melee/midrange design of the reaper. Its a personal preference. Its more a reflection on lack of options that my complaint stems from. I do think a Midrange option should be viable and I think Condi reaper is viable to an extent. My preference would be pure ranged DPS or Condi range/support.

I absolutely must note this though that I am in no way suggesting the Reaper should be changed to fit my play style desires. Because I still enjoy it and I feel that it works as is. However for a future elite specialization I’d like to see something that fills the niche I’m personally looking for and I’d assume others would be interested in as well.

If there is a complaint I have about condi is the requirement of playing both reaper and being a mid range as opposed to long range. Its something that goes against my general play style. Its a minor complaint and not so much a bash against its effectiveness. Considering I like the DPS output the problem I have is that this hurts us in fights like Vale guardian where they want you to run away from the boss constantly since you’re technically still ranged.

Fantasy Condi set though? Well, the benefits you get from the power as opposed to another stat like vitality are minor. They do benefit yes, but if I could choose a stat type in PvE I’d go with deadshot. Drop decimate defenses in favor of Chilling Victory for that sweet sweet life force. Though I wouldn’t mind swapping the precision and power as opposed to the vitality, I’d like to have a bit more bulk to my shroud. A personal preference.

BlooDyliCious.5824:

I never really bothered me having no utilities in shroud/reaper. But now you mention it, I want this badly. Just about every animation is already aviable in shroud, so all they gotta do is enable to utilities. I would love to have spectral armor active while in shroud, to regain lifeforce while not having to get out of it.

Then again, it would probably buff necro into meta, cant have that….

That depends on how they balance that. And I honestly don’t think it would be that back breaking to have this. I honestly feel that some of my past suggestions involving this one might under power it.

One of my old suggestions involving this was saying that utility should cost life force. Which would be flavorful but that might be a bit too weak. On the other hand I still want that flavor somewhere for a shroud burst build.

NeXeD.3042:

Kk I understand now you want a new ability for core necro I guess I didn’t read it right? Agreed giving necro vanilla a little rainbow sprinkles would be nice as it stands vanilla necro is outclassed by reaper solely due to the stab available on reaper

A core change includes the reaper gaining benefit from this change. Again, you seem to be mistaking what I"m saying. I’m horribly sorry this is so confusing for you. I’ll simplify it next time so it doesn’t harm your little head.

Methuselah.4376:

I once suggested unique shroud skills for 6-9

Methuselah.4376:

I loved playing Necro from the start and the Reaper specialization was the whole reason I bought HoT. However, I do concur that there are some serious issues and yes, the developers seem to waive them aside because of SHROUD. Urgh. First off, shroud immolates in 2 seconds under focused fire, even if one takes the Soul Reaping trait. It’s absolutely nothing compared to Guardians or Warriors who can keep a decent amount of blocks going, essentially making them immune to most damage. AND they have heavy armor. I think the only way to solve this is adding Shroud utility skills. I thought of a few that might be handy:
“Your Life is Mine”
-Essentially this is the reverse of Your Soul is Mine, whereby you restore an amount of Lifeforce and for each enemy you hit you heal a certain amount of health.

Flames of Torment
-A mark. Target area is engulfed in green flames and any enemies in the area are damaged and have 5 stacks of Torment for 10 seconds or such.

Wail of the Banshee
-A hard CC, this would Daze and chill as well.

Ectoplasmic Body
-The devs keep throwing “but it’s not thematic” at us when we cry out for blocks. Well here’s a theme: the reaper becomes insubstantial as a ghost. In other words, invulnerable. 3 seconds sounds fair. And the fact that we have to access to shroud to use it is a sort of pay off.

The problem with this if they were going to do this it would greatly increase the required work needed for the necromancer. Because how do we do this? do we add 5 new skills attached to a new elite spec with the normal shroud? Do we just add those 5 skills to shroud as a whole and they never change? do they change?

One major issue I’m trying to address is predictability. Another is customization. If we did this it would help the predictability issue a little bit, however not quite enough. The other problem, customization doesn’t allow for people to make their own mistakes or experiment as much with shroud builds which will leave us with a similar situation of Stagnation that shroud builds tend to fall into now.

NeXeD.3042:

just give us traps so all the people whining for necros to get stealth can just use trapper runes. Plus a well trap build might be cool.

Crinn.7864:

They should just gives us glyphs in the next elite specs that flip over like Druid and Elel glyphs do.

#randomideas

Not really talking about elite specs. We’re looking at core necromancer and what this could do to evolve the necromancer’s strategy.

Traits: One design space i’m really interested in is traits. I’ve always loved the price for power dynamic that the necromancer had in GW1 and I rather enjoy the corruptions for their flavor in harming you for great effect, as underpowered as a few of their skills currently feel. Having traits that Trigger a means to spend life force for power to me sounds like a really interesting concept to balance an actual glass cannon necromancer that trades their defenses for dark power has been something I’ve been seeking since I started this game and at the moment I’m only getting from MTG. It opens up a lot of design space for duality in the necromancer to where they can either work to cheat death or ride on the edge.

Overall. Let me know what you guys think. This topic will never go away because I’ll continue to suggest it for as long as I’m playing GW2. Even with the introduction of the reaper or another future elite spec since this will always be something holding the necromancer’s design back.

I know I haven’t been super active on the forums in the past few years, however this is still a topic I always come back to due to the feeling of necessity that this has.

One major issue of shroud as a defensive and offensive mechanic is its limited skill bar. 5 skills limit proves that, although functional, it doesn’t lend itself well to the play style the Devs have been trying to push for the necromancer since day one. Without utility primarily, the necromancer has very little counter play in shroud. Relying on the skill swap trigger and these limited 5 skills to execute what they need. It almost becomes a buffer period in the necromancer’s strategy. Although Kills can take place in Shroud, I’ve done it multiple time, it is not optimal, even in the far superior reaper’s shroud. And I’m not talking about optimal in comparison to other professions, only compared to necromancer’s own abilities.

Shroud almost feels like a loading screen at times were I’m just waiting to get back into the combat due to its rather disconnected nature. I work very hard to work it into my strategy but even on shroud heavy builds, such as my power build, I do not prefer to be in shroud.

Preventing shroud from having the 6-0 skills does stifle the design space the necromancer has. Giving them access to those skills would allow for some unique skill design for later elite specs as well as give necromancer’s an out when in shroud rather then waiting to actually doing something. Giving necromancer as much time as possible to gain control of the situation is something they do need for shroud. As the tells in shroud and the skills themselves, although have control elements, Don’t give the necromancer much control in those situations. Rather the opposite is true, they lose control of the situation, especially if they’re forced into shroud. Which is a problem when talking about an attrition mechanic.

Healing skills: Now, the Elephant in the room is skill 6. People will always say that the necromancer being able to heal that significant amount of health in shroud is just too good. And I actually agree with you. But I’ve suggested solutions to this problem before. Still having this skill active to use, Prevent the healing from being able to trigger while in shroud. Why would we want a heal skill in shroud if we can’t use it? Well, the necromancer’s heal in shroud should act like utility. Well of blood has uses outside of its heal as a combo field and a means to heal allies. Signet of Vampirism’s passive should still trigger in shroud and its debuff would still be able to heal you like normal. Consume conditions would remove conditions. Blood Fiend is the only one in my opinion should actually heal you for its active both because its so fragile and because its active should flavorfully count as life stealing. Other than that, No healing for you in shroud. You want that you should drop out of it. But this gives the necromancer some unique play.

Utility: This is the biggest reason why anyone wants skills 6-0 in shroud. The utility skills are extremely important to the strategy of any profession. And the necromancer is no exception. Having access to this means that it would be much harder to control the movement of a necromancer through impairment and give necromancers the field control that they otherwise have outside of shroud. There is also always signets which can buff the effectiveness of the weakness that their passives sometimes seem to have. I’m not going to go too much into detail about how it should be balanced, since that isn’t for me to say. Some people might agree with the changes I’d suggest while others wouldn’t.. Often times i under shoot balance even though I often suggest sweeping changes.

Elites: The Elite skill is an interesting one. The transformations should absolutely drop the necromancer out of shroud. Although I dislike the transformations personally, and wish they had more utility with shroud, this isn’t a big deal in the long run. As for other elite skills, there isn’t much to say on this that differs from my opinion on utility. There are some benefits that i wont get into. You guys can imagine that yourself.

No. I like dark field, I think dark field should be changed a bit, I think a leap that blinds and blast that blinds on it is kinda boring, but that’s a problem a problem with the type as a whole not a problem with Nightfall being a dark field.

My solution would be to make comboing through the dark field through a leap should execute a life stealing blast. That works in shroud.

BerriosC.7295:

Since ANet has confirmed Elite Specialization are going to be the way Professions are changed and “new professions” are introduced into the game from this point out, I thought I would bring up a Profession many people have wanted to make a return. The Ritualist. and I have some ideas on how it could work.

Elite Spec: Ritualist
New Skill Type: Spirit. The Ritualist’s companions from the Underworld.
Profession Mechanic: Spirit Shroud. The Ritualist’s connection to the Mists grow exponentially, allowing them to hold ground in both planes. In this form, the Ritualist can rip the spirit out of their enemies.
Weapon: Torch. Burn your foes with Spiritfire.

Having traveled to Tyria in the company of the Order of Whispers, Ritualists from Cantha give insight into the Mists to any Necromancer who wishes to learn.

Anet, please make this a reality.

I don’t think we’ll see ritualist for a while. Not until Cantha. But my god.. Cantha… I want this so badly. Necro really needs a support elite spec.

StickerHappy.8052:

Lily.1935:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• New PvP Amulet: Deadshot Amulet: 1050 Precision, 1050 Condition Damage, 560 Vitality, 560 Expertise
  • This amulet should be a viable choice for lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes, such as condition engineer and condition ranger. It provides strong offense, with some defense through vitality.

Lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes? DUDE! Give this stat combo for my necromancer. So much want in PvE. I’m tired of having power. Please Gaile. I’ll love you forever! <3.

I would not even add necromance to the “Lower HP” classes.

Wait what? You think I was suggesting the necromancer has low HP???? Wha… WHAT? Dude, the “?” there was to show my confusion for that statement. Its not saying the necromancer is low HP, that’s just ridiculous. Its a criticism of that mode of thought that has lead to things being better or useless because they don’t have a good grasp on what the players want for what… W/E…. I’m not going to try and explain what a question mark is for.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Lily.1935:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Lily.1935:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Having an auto attack that applies a debilitating condition would be too strong. Necro has it on Scepter, but only the third auto in the chain. Thief has it on Dagger, but also later in the chain. It would generally be too strong to have permanent and free uptime on a condition that can impact players so heavily (33% healing reduction isn’t marginal).

Not likely. Highly depends on the duration. At 7 seconds yeah, it would be too strong. At 3? nuh.

3 second base duration on a 1 second cast time with no cooldown is still 100% uptime of Poison, which is the point I’m making. It’s not a matter of how long the condition lasts, it’s a matter of how regularly and how simply you are able to upkeep it.

If you stick with auto attacking the entire time. However, there are weapons with almost 100% crippling up time on their auto yet they’re not too powerful.

Warrior Sword Auto #3 and Ranger Sword Auto #2 are the only auto attacks that apply Cripple. You can’t entirely compare the two scenarios because A) Cripple does not deal damage while Poison does. B ) The auto attacks that apply Cripple aren’t the first or only auto; they rely on landing another attack beforehand to be able to use. C) Warrior Sword Cripple is only 1 second on an auto chain that takes 1.25 seconds to complete, meaning it’s not 100% uptime, and Ranger Sword Cripple is 2 seconds on an auto chain that takes 1.5 seconds, so it’s is 100%, but it still has half the total condition duration that you’re proposing for Staff autos. D) Staff autos take roughly 1 second to complete, so you don’t only have to auto attack to maintain 100% uptime of Poison, whereas the other weapons do just to maintain Cripple.

You can have your opinions and that’s cool, but statistically in gameplay it’s too powerful for me to want to implement.

Thats what people said about giving a boon corruption on an auto attack. Heck, they gave it to the scepter, a weapon which already can maintain perma poison…. Just saying, its not as powerful as you might thing. But yeah the scepter auto is great. but not for the poison.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• New PvP Amulet: Deadshot Amulet: 1050 Precision, 1050 Condition Damage, 560 Vitality, 560 Expertise
  • This amulet should be a viable choice for lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes, such as condition engineer and condition ranger. It provides strong offense, with some defense through vitality.

Lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes? DUDE! Give this stat combo for my necromancer. So much want in PvE. I’m tired of having power. Please Gaile. I’ll love you forever! <3.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Lily.1935:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Having an auto attack that applies a debilitating condition would be too strong. Necro has it on Scepter, but only the third auto in the chain. Thief has it on Dagger, but also later in the chain. It would generally be too strong to have permanent and free uptime on a condition that can impact players so heavily (33% healing reduction isn’t marginal).

Not likely. Highly depends on the duration. At 7 seconds yeah, it would be too strong. At 3? nuh.

3 second base duration on a 1 second cast time with no cooldown is still 100% uptime of Poison, which is the point I’m making. It’s not a matter of how long the condition lasts, it’s a matter of how regularly and how simply you are able to upkeep it.

If you stick with auto attacking the entire time. However, there are weapons with almost 100% crippling up time on their auto yet they’re not too powerful.

Vukorep.3081:

you need to look the entire skill as it is not just pick something you dont like about it and add something you wish it to have (on top with other effects it already has atm)

its a 1200 range 5 target piercing free spammable attack that also increases your life force by 4% per hit. its also a 20% projectile finisher.

For me this skill is the best thing one can have to get your life force back up super fast.

5 targets = 20% life force (about 2800 life force per attack).
Maybe add extra short bleeds (like 2 seconds..considering how high it can get on condi necros) just so you can trigger something with it.
Spamable poison of 3 seconds (ends up about 6 seconds if you are constantly hiting a target with it without any condition duration) is too strong on a weapon that pierces 5 targets and is 1200 range…and spamable…..and brings your life force from 0-100% in 5 auto attacks…….

You are looking at the absolute optimal situation. You also have to look at the worst situation if you are going to do that. We’ve had this sort of discussion about the necromancer years again how Anet balanced around an impossible optimal situation which left the necromancer stagnant and unused for years.

The skill is alright. 4% is pretty good, but the weapon over all isn’t balanced properly for either power or condi. At its worst the auto attack does nothing due to pathing, speed and after cast delay.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Having an auto attack that applies a debilitating condition would be too strong. Necro has it on Scepter, but only the third auto in the chain. Thief has it on Dagger, but also later in the chain. It would generally be too strong to have permanent and free uptime on a condition that can impact players so heavily (33% healing reduction isn’t marginal).

Not likely. Highly depends on the duration. At 7 seconds yeah, it would be too strong. At 3? nuh.

I’m going to make a very very simple suggestion.

Necrotic Grasp should apply poison in addition to what else it does.

I don’t really know what else to say about it. Maybe its me just being greedy but I really love this weapon and I feel it could be just that little bit better without being pushed over the top.

Too complicated? Really? I thought it was overly simple. To the point where it feels like they’re holding my hand telling me exactly how to build my character. Its so limited in its focus that complicated isn’t a word I’d ever in a million years use to describe the profession.

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I use death magic because I don’t run reaper because I don’t find reaper to be very… good, even before all the nerfs it got. I use it as much for unholy sanctuary as I do deadly magic, but at the end of the day it’s a nice mix of survivability and DPS improvement.

I don’t find blood magic to be at all useful because for blood magic’s damage to mean anything you have to be constantly applying damage. The sheer amount of dodges, invulnerabilities, and blocks in the game make this difficult, so I personally opt for spike damage making every hit count. As such, blood magic is too slow.

I would probably end up taking curses over blood magic if I couldn’t use death magic, just for the condi transfer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAndWjc0Oaqst2WTbsRSb4v93OqFK5QM2BMdMmjqFmABwMA-TlDFQBsb/hGcEAAwJQgAPAg0ojQJK5yjmgkoMQAHiAsoEUhKFajWA3pBRfq/QIgybBA-w

Your build looks…. Interesting. Although I’d still drop Death for blood if you refuse to use reaper. The life stealing and well reduction is pretty solid. Not only that, with that particular build I’d criticize the use of Unholy sanctuary. That trait is more for people who are not used to how death shroud works. But overall, I’m just not sure what your build is trying to do. Are you in a zerg? Roaming? It seems fairly janky if you ask me and most of the trait choices I’m questioning.

I don’t have much experience in WvW so maybe you could explain it better.