Guild Wars 2

Guardians have great traits, just perhaps not so much in the zeal line. You have builds utilizing all sorts of them in radiance, valor, honor, and virtues.

If only scepter auto-attack was like pally fist of heaven from d2, that would be cool and you’ll really feel like you’re smiting something..

Stop hitting yourself! Seems to be the guardian’s motto, just like bullies!

“When everyone is full berserkers” sounds like i wont be attempting this path anytime soon then. Nothing against dps checks as its also a dungeon mehanic. Seeing as my set up is far from berserkers (runnin soldiers on guard and shaman on necro) i would just be dead weight for this encounter.

kiranslee.4829:

@Lumines.3916 What u say for thief about being squishy , it applyz same on ranger. Difference is that ranger cant go hide, hardy can run away and doesnt do dmg, at all. Soon only viable build for ranger will be dual fists “facepalm”. Dont get me wrong i like thiefs, i play one , but atm when i compare it to other classes it is OP.

If you take a look at page 1, you’ll notice that I as a thief player, know that it’s quite OP too. The ranger by design was meant to stay at range(lol the name), but this isn’t always the case in more clumped maps in PvP. Their melee, well greatsword got nerfed to hell and back before the game even launched. Their Pet AI is hardly the best it can be and a lot of their weapons are very limited in their capabilities. There’s a good reason why shortbow was the norm and everyone raised torches with the monday patch.

That being said, I don’t have extensive first hand experience with a ranger, I only played one in beta and cannot comment much more on their situation. My first character and 80 was a Necromancer, so I know the pain of being left with limited weapon choices that perform at a mediocre level along with uninteresting traits.

@Cyric, I’m glad you’re less of a troll than I initially perceived you as. I think what the bigger community needs to understand about thieves in general is that yes, thieves hurt like kitten but kitten they’re also squishy (relatively and depends on spec). We also happen to melt under condition pressure extremely easy, just take a look at all the removals a thief can have, it’s very limited.

Stealth IS a defensive mechanism, but it does not stop incoming damage at all if others are smart about locating the position of the thief. Stealth is a diversion, it’s a visual confusion, the culling issues make it more deadly than it really is.

I’d be more than happy to have a toned down version of the thief burst if there were more answers to just “shortbow and wait for cds” in between our moments of glory. Right now, thieves have to play an extreme of hit-n-run style and make it count because chilling in the clusterkitten is asking to get killed. Once we have the tools to sustain better in a longer fight, doesn’t matter how hard our moves hurt, good thieves will kill you.

You do realize he plays a Guardian and not a Warrior? Also, Soldiers > Knights for bulkiness as it gives Power/Vit/Tough, not Power/Pre/Vit.

This build is why basilisk was nerfed, there were no ways to escape the burst prior to basilisk being irremovable.

I regularly toy around with this type of thief in PvP, it’s 100 times worse to play against than the Pistol Whip build, the CDs are up more frequently, the time frame in which you can get away is also smaller. It’s way easier to set up and they have a harder time seeing it coming due to stealth and the culling issues with it. Your burst move is back stab meaning you still have heartseeker to finish people with.

Don’t know why they nerfed pistol whip when that isn’t even cheese in comparison to this, it was only threatening when they have quickness to boost it. The problem is quickness, not the whip itself.

Only tip I can give you is, if you can mess up the thief’s opener, then you’ve won. Stand your Ground! (If you’re a god with reflexes and can pop so his venom is wasted without being CC’d at all, then GG) He’ll either have to retreat and escape or eat dirt. You probably also want to keep mobile, the harder it is for him to aim for your back, the better. Also, I regularly use Hammer/Mace/Shield on my Bunker guard, sometimes it pays off to use focus, being able to block the key hits will destroy their rhythm.

If you were really trying to have a meaningful discussion, you wouldn’t have spent texts on texts of telling the OP to L2P.

I actually gave him some feedback to go on seeing as I know how the scenario plays out on both sides of the equation. Every thief will bring out warriors as a case and point as to why they should be allowed such high burst. It is my opinion that Hundred Blades stationary or not, does far too much damage too. Thieves generally will also be biased as Warriors generally is (not saying always, but is a trend) a tougher match up for most thieves. High base HP and Toughness hurts when they can equally dish out the pain in melee.

That being said, there’s a good reason why you still see more thieves in tPvP than warriors as of now (even though most thieves will think warriors as OP). Superior roaming and dueling capabilities with the highest burst in the game (you can’t argue this at all).

There is a point to buff all other classes, but that also creates a power creep(look at GW1). A nerf is a slight buff for everyone at the expensive of one that will receive this negatively without having to resort to a power creep. Do I want to see more threatening builds from all classes? Yes, but that can only happen once the meta is less centralized on Mesmer, Guards and Thieves and after all the bugs have been washed off. If everyone got buffs and were on the same level as these three classes, PvP will be even more zergy than it is now.

I play a Thief regularly when not using my Guardian in tPvP and hot-join. Even I know backstab is OP. I don’t even know why they nerfed pistol whip when this is worse, it’s safer to set up, you can save haste for stomps/res rather than your burst and it’s much harder to see coming.

The culling issue just makes it worse, but it’s not the root of the problem. This build was so powerful that they had to nerf basilisk venom because of it, what does that say about it? Now Moa is the only control effect you can’t break in the game (it should be changed), reasoning probably being that Mesmers or any class can’t insta-gib you like a thief would.

That being said if you have a reflexes like a cat and can dodge/break stun the combo, your chances of killing the thief is pretty good, as long as you survive the initial burst, all CDs are down, they are on the defensive. Another way to go about it is to stack more toughness, it’s more of a challenge to pull this off against some condition specs running Rabid amulet for this reason. You know why Cyric is crying about his HP vanishing from other sources? It’s because backstab builds are 100% glass cannons, of course anything that hurts will squat him.

That being said though, no matter how glass you go, 1-2 shotting just shouldn’t happen. Hell I still crit for 7-8k on bunker guardians with a signet’d backstab.. Definitely can’t solo them but I can ambush and leave them on the floor with a haste stomp after my teammate wears him down. Seriously though, know to admit when the class/spec you play is OP, balance is good for the game in the long run, this is far from the best build you can run as a thief too so I’m not sure why you’re stoically trying to defend it. Venomshare in tPvP is an absolute monster.

I will admit to giggling like a school girl when I one-shot someone though, I mean, I’ll enjoy it for the time being.

Guardians even after all the toning down are still among the top. It’s a shame you can’t see the Guardian past greatsword.

inb4 you flame, I play a Guardian extensively too, I only pull out Greatsword on fights needing more AoE pressure. Otherwise, I run with Hammer/Staff and regularly switch to other sets when situation calls for. The worst change was the re-arrangement, 2 for Symbol the 3 to combo was very intuitive. I know the change was to keep each skill in increasing CDs but frankly, the new arrangement will take some getting used to.

It seems that you’re one of the types of players tunneling damage completely and completely blind to the ridiculous amount of utility this class can bring.

It’s fine, still really easy and extremely PuGable. Did all three paths with some random PuG after the patch and didn’t really notice a huge difference to say the least..

I always run with a hammer on my guardian, i have usually a staff on swap and greatsword, scepter, mace, an shield in my bags. I switch it up depending on what the situation calls for but never had a problem meleeing for the majority of any fight. You aren’t suppose to face tank for extended periods of time. With the guard you also have so many blinds, blocks, protection, aegis and what not that helps you sit comfortably right in melee. And yes, my guard can still shrug off hits even the biggest ones, just gotta heal when that happens.

Power/vit/tough with 3k armor 16k hp, still got 2.9k attack and 965 healing when swappin to staff for support. Instead of just healong, there are so many way to prevent an reduce damage. Healing is just the most basic form of it. It’s also the least exciting way to support your team. Warding off mobs, reflecting projectiles, givin people breathing room is what support is in this game, not watching hp bars.

I’m goin to have to respectfully keep disagreeing. It does have a more limited effect on builds running high crits, but the negative endurance regen has an universal effect on all builds. More so than any other mmo, movement and dodging is incredibly important in this game, constant weakness reduces the rate enemies can sosge in a given timeframe. There’s still plenty of merit in this condition aside from glancing blows.

^^ Butthurt is so strong with this one. Am I upset that the only fix we got was on one small bit of a trait this patch? Yes, I mean, just one fix makes you kind of /facepalm when the trait they picked isn’t even the one they can fix to help the necro the most.

Is it annoying that a lot of the bugs were reported in BWE and still remain unfixed? Of course, but the Necromancer isn’t the only one in that situation, just the one in the worst situation. Other classes while may not have as extensive of a bug list as we do (Engineers are close), but their bug fixes aren’t exactly happening at a faster rate than ours. They just have it better because they have less bugs/design issues hindering them compared to Necros.

I hate that so many MMO players only see the game in the scope of THEIR class. I think Necromancers are pretty important and deserve better, but I also know they’re far from the only one with glaring issues. By being so narrowly focused, you also lose perspective on the game balance as a whole.

I’m not trying to defend the class or ANet’s actions, in fact, I’ve posted a lot about why the class is in such a horrible state. But you and the type of posters like you add nothing useful to the discussion but QQ. I actually thought your OP was humorous in the way you structured it, but turns out you’re just as bitter as balls.

“Hold the Line!” is one you’d hear less frequent, my Asura majority of the time yells out the same thing she’d say for Protection or Regen instead of Hold the Line. That being said, I have heard her yell “Hold the Line!” before, just not that much.

^ OP is a genius.
And what DiogoSilva is correct, while the Necro may not have been in the spot light for the first few patches, it had some big ones after that and one during a stress test prior to launch.

It’s just that none of it really did any groundbreaking changes for the class like the Mesmer/Thief patches (stress test prior to launch patch).

CD Changes are whatever, but the re-arrangement aspect perplexes me.

<Non Thief player here. Only dabbled with it ~3 ranks or so to learn the class.

Don’t know why they hit Pistol Whip builds, when Backstab was more LOLSIES.

And Mesmers remain pretty much unchanged.

Just ran TA for the first time today and did all paths, only ever did story and never explorables until now. It went smooth as butter so I’m not sure where you’re getting this from. And I did run with a guildie, but the other 3 were PuG’d.

Barbed Precision actually has a 66% chance to bleed on crit, it’s higher than most other “bleed on crit” traits, Engineers have 30%, so really at 50% crit chance, 1/3 hits you gain an extra bleed. What I will give you though is Barbed Precision is pretty kitten, the Engineer related trait applies a 3s bleed while Mesmer’s Sharper Image applies a 5 second bleed (possibly the best) ugh, what a surprise.

Also, Lingering Curses currently does not stack with Hemophilia (which is better as it affects more than just scepter). Not saying Lingering Curses is worse, but Withering Precision is far from the “bad” you’re trying to make it out to be.

Withering Precision gives you the ability to constantly apply weakness ontop of everything you do, easily giving you another condition to cover your bleeds with while reducing their damage output, far from useless.

Average joe Necromancer uses off-hand dagger to apply weakness, however that’s 10/25s, more if he has Enfeebling Shroud (only when they’re in range). Withering Precision affects ALL your crits making it a much more constant thing.

Will both Spite and Curses benefit if they swapped Precision and Condition duration around? Possibly, but the current arrangement is decent as well. If anything, it’s not the attribute bonuses of the traits one should be upset about, it’s the lack of attractive trait choices within each line. That is hindering the class more than anything.

I wouldn’t say it’s “ruining” the class because the concept at its core, a TANKY caster juggling two health bars intrigued me a lot. However, it’s just the execution of it along with the cons that came with it makes me question it. It’ll still be awhile before they finish fine tuning it that’s for sure..

And ruinous is right on track, the Necromancer as a whole, is too “negative” of a profession. On the spectrum of boons/conditions, they stack heavily onto the condition side of things. Instead of Protection, we’re supposed to use Weakness, instead of Aegis, we’re supposed to use blind. And that’s fine and all until you look at the flip side of things, the Guardian.

Guardians may have more limited access to damaging conditions, but they don’t need those, they scale very well with power, plus the one they do get burns! They also may have very limited access to Weakness, but it’s still there in the Spirit Shield and Signet of Judgement. They also have blinds seeping out a lot of their weapon sets, from the gapclosers for both sword/greatsword, off-hand focus to traited virtues. What you get is a class that can mitigate damage tactfully from BOTH sides of the boon/condition spectrum despite the class leans heavily on the boon side.

Well Necromancers? Boons? What boons, unless you go far out for them, you won’t see much until you group up with someone else. Hell, even the class most similar to the Necromancer the Mesmer has boons coming out their butts 24/7 when wielding a Staff.

Conditions in the end may be easier to reapply and what not, but there are also a lot more condition removals than boon removals. A lot of the top classes can juggle both boons/conditions, the necro is left with just mostly conditions.

Nethelli.4023:

Incidentally, I found a baby Colossus Rumblus

Very cute! Make me chuckle..

@Kisses,

Try getting your hands on the “Duelist” armor, it’s the same one you see at Human/Norn Thief character creation.

And OT: Only if you enjoy and like the class despite its problems, otherwise the other classes do have it better right now.

20 not 40 seems to be a bug. But other than that, you have no reason for complaints.

I’ve only done it once when people first starting hitting 80s, before the “shard runs”, I don’t really remember which path but it was one where you had a section you had to run/pass this ball to open a gate and what not. It was a really long run and we got screwed over when the party leader left.

It’s been hard LFGing and the ones that are forming dictate that you MUST know the encounters or need not apply. I’m fairly confident that I can hold my weight, I have two characters in full exotics that I can bring.

Wells Support
Healing/Condition/Vitality Necromancer

or Conscecrations/Shouts whatever
Power/Vit/Tough with Cleric Accessories Hammer/Staff (and others) Guardian.

Look forward to seeing responses.

AC Explorable is one of the easiest by far.. I regularly take people 40 or under just cause it’s fine to do so. The ones that die the most tend to be the ones that haven’t done it before. But the dungeon is not terribly hard, I can usually clear all three paths in 1.5 hrs.

The only somewhat difficult boss would be Colossus Rumblus, his howl is worse than the “Howling King” ironic isn’t it? The cone is not just a cone, it comes out of his side too, just standing behind his belly won’t always save you, the best bet is to just stay the fuuck away. Also the scream can go through walls..

Too much of the Necromancer’s balance was tipped because of Death Shroud. Balancing around having “two life bars” made them take away a lot from the other areas.

Most classes have leaps, teleports and shadowsteps or other mobility movement skills that are usable without a target. All until recently, we had none to speak of, now we have Spectral Walk which is a huge upgrade from before, but it’s still far from the free range motion other classes can do. Dark Path is NOT it, it’s way limited compared to even just a regular leap.

Death Shroud also used to break stuns, that’s why a lot of our skills that break stun happen to be on longer CDs. We have no reliable stun breaks that is under a minute in CD. This is something all other classes have. Shadowstep, the thief utility very similar to Spectral Walk in function breaks stun going both ways and is a 50s CD. Flesh Worm is a 40s CD, but it also requires set up first, it’s unlike the instant stun break abilities. When they took out the stun break from DShroud (Yea it was OP), they also did not add anything to compensate.

Our strongest defensive CD is Spectral Armor, its CD is on parr with Endure Pain and is LONGER than Myst Form. Necromancers have no need of an invul but when you look at other defensive CDs, our seems pretty whack. 6s of Protection, that’s something other classes have a 20-30s CD. Elementalists have Armor of Earth which share the same CD, it gives 8s of Protection and 8s of Stability, completely outclasses ours and we don’t have other choices like they do. I know it generates LF when hit, but that also means you have to put yourself more in harms way to gain a benefit than any other class. If you look at other defensive CDs most classes have, it’s either a quick evade/re-positioning or outright immunity.

It all comes back to Dshroud, because it was TOO good, all they’ve done is butcher it with every single development decision. Right now, they don’t want to give Necros a bone because Dshroud makes it too hard to balance and they can easily make the class too powerful. But because of this, the status quo right now is we have a crap class mechanic that is under performing, since it’s also dictating our balance, the rest of our toolkit is really watered down.

TLDR: Because of Dshroud, our mobility/escapes, defensive cds, and everything else is whack.

Andele.1306:

Edit: Sorry on the last one, wrong pic (have like 1.2k screenshots~), thus yes it does block DS too and it does actually remove all boons.

Fixed the first post too~

It doesn’t remove all boons, it’s just you can’t see your own boon/conditions when in DS period. If you were Moa’d in DS, chances are the boons fell off by the time you popped out of bird/black form . t sure why it’s like that but ya..

Not a MM, but I can see the annoyances. They already disappear when you touch water, use any form of transformation. Not only does Moa negate all our elites, it completely nullifies a playstyle too which is..going too far.

It’s hard to make comments without an actual link to your build. Even if it’s just a “Work in progress” we just don’t have context if you omit it.

That being said, I believe that the best way to go about mitigating damage is to not take it in the first place, heals have their place but you might as well go for the big ones. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t take Well of Blood for example. It doubles as a condition removal with two finishers.

I went with Shaman Gear (Cond/Healing/Vit in PvE) and use Rune of the Flock (was hoping Chilling Darkness would work with the bird). I switch between off-hand dagger and warhorn depending on the situation. Warhorn is great against bosses or single targets to interrupt big hits while Enfeeble is great for reducing the damage output of a pack.

Instead of using DS to heal, I just juggle Life Transfer and Well of Blood in between my party’s healing CDs, as long as you can keep them up in between that, the party is golden. Well of Blood heals for 564 x10 with my set up while Life Transfer ticks for close to 300 every hit, very potent heals for when you need it. Otherwise, Well of Darkness and Well of Power can greatly reduce the pressure your group takes.

Last tidbit: I saw you were spamming 1+3 in Plague Form while being chased by Mobs, the best part about Plague is the ability to chain blind clusterkittens to really “tank” and completely negate incoming damage from mobs, it’s more valuable to do that then stack low low duration bleeds that fall off in 2s.

Link to wells support: http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#czVm0cc9MowGxMowGxM0GaGGcsmoRck

Condition and Precision together actually isn’t bad, that I actually like about the class.
On top of Barbed Precision, Grandmaster Curses trait is Withering Precision (25% Weakness on Crit) and if you’re using Sigil of Earth, there’s that too. While conditions can’t crit, they can make you stack conditions faster. With Withering Precision, you’re also constantly debuffing their damage and putting another condition to cover your bleeds with.

Rabid (Condition/Precision/Toughness) is a great amulet for Necromancers and other condition specs in general.

What I do agree on is a lot of lackluster traits, aside from bugs that’s probably holding back the class the most. If you’ve played any other class you’d know they actually have options and trade offs to consider where as on the Necromancer, “go with these or be even more useless.”

I really really like them, all we need is a bug fix on purging flames then all is gravy. Wall of Reflection is useful in both dungeons and WvW, sanctuary gives you room for a much needed res some times and is the easiest way to use Tome of Courage.

You may not need the ground target trait in a lot of scenarios but it’s a godsend in WvW.

This is a pretty subjective thing as everyone’s tastes differ. However, GW2 is a fantasy game, I do want my two-handed hammers to be slightly larger than life. I don’t mean hammers the size of sky scrapers, but just look at those LOLGREATSWORDS compared to hammers. Some of them are even smaller than staves on my Guardian and feel more like croquet hammers. Of course, being asura has a bunch to do with this as it definitely feels more noticeable on this race.

Really can’t relate as to why you would want such a thing, but I don’t see this suggestion harming any others. Have it your way like Burger King is kind of ANet’s motto isn’t it?

Don’t mind if this were put in, but I don’t see it being a high priority and what not.

I feel you’re looking too much into the THEMATIC side of professions and not so much the PLAYSTYLE of them.

I know for one that glass cannons aren’t my style. That’s the reason why I went for Necromancers first and then Guardians.

Don’t pay heed to the negative nancys here, enjoy your experience.
I have my fair share of issues of beef with how ANet did some of the things, but overall, I am pleased by the game.

sorrow.2364:

The point about unbalancing is all about profession effectiveness compared to skill level.
I’ll make a poor graph to let all you l2p guys understand one time for ever.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2zhe6hd.png

Now, is the problem clear to everyone?

You win the internets and hold whatever prestige that brings.

Why just asuras?

Also, I did like that /dance was based on profession (seeing as they didn’t have diff playable races) in GW1.

Silver lining to rolling and playing extensively with a Necro as a main for long periods of time. Any other class you play now feels like ez-mode.

I don’t want to fight against that team, that I know for sure..

It’s hard to make an argument against not taking staff in any set up, its auto attack scales ok with power for power builds, it also has a nice Mark of Blood for condition builds.

Reaper’s Mark is an interrupt effect you’d find really lacking from most sets while Putrid Mark’s utility pretty much cements the whole thing, our other complete cleanse outside of consume conditions. You could pick up staff just for that ability really.

Chillblains is an extremely potent snare, one of our best really. So when you look at the whole package staff has to offer, you’d be hard pressed to not take it as a secondary swap (most do that).

I don’t think Writ of the Merciful is anything to write home about. The bonfire in Heart of the Mists near the game finder npc is an easy way to test how much each ability/trait heals for (you take burning damage).

With upwards of 1k +Healing, it would tick for ~170 hp/s. Some symbols don’t always benefit your allies based on positioning too, also if you’re taking Mace main hand, the trait does not work with the symbol.

Play some in sPvP matches even if you’re not a PvP player, or at least try them out against the dummies. It’s the best way to get a feel for what the traits/skills do at max level.

I like most of the races, they all have their personalities, that being said the one I like the least are the sylvari.

They’re young and naive, too idealistic and egotistical about it. Historian Fia aka Jane Goodall in Cursed Shore is a perfect example. Ugh, really hope some race walks into the grove en mass and wake them up from their “dream” for real.

gabo.6721:

Grew up playing much less realistic MH-style weaponry i see…

Its a visual effect so ok, but increasing it might block FoV quite a bit especially being regularly locked to the back of your character and needing to see forward.

Not sure how this is an issue, there’s scaling based on races already. The already exaggerated greatswords do not block out your entire screen, not sure how a slight increase in hammer sizes would cause an issue.

Some of the hammers in this game are even shorter than staves, most are them are sticks with a small pebble attached. Most of them feel like croquet mallets if anything.

I’m not dreaming of hammers the size of skyscrapers, but this is also a fantasy mmo, it’d be nice if a two-handed weapon did feel slightly larger than life. Of course, this is all a subjective thing and different based on one’s tastes.

Reward from Ascalonian catacombs.

I find running full clerics makes you “squishy” you may have high toughness, but you’re also severely lacking in the max HP department. I run Power/Vit/Tough for the main slots and use Cleric Jewelry + Staff. I’m still able to reach 965 healing while having 3k Armor, 16k HP with 2.8k attack.

Don’t front load your best attacks, it really is that simple. Hold back and punish them heavily when they absolutely have no way to get out of it. More than your average weapon, it’s also better to combo if you will, with the hammer.

The only complaint you can have about hammer is if someone pops a stability, you better have something to switch to.

Are too kitten small! At least make them somewhat on par with greatswords

@Teknomancer, so true.. It was really a huge headache trying to discuss some of it with my buddy who has only played a Mesmer or Engineer.

“You have Death Shroud” Yea but the same situations where you could possibly disengage and collapse with other people, I’d be waiting for spawn.
“But you can tank, why are you complaining?” They just don’t understand..

Pistol Whip looks like them backhanding, then a bunch of sword slashes.

What is your toughness and armor? Your stats makes me think you’re built kind of like glass. I find that having armor is one of the more reliable ways to counter fat direct burst. Also, since you’re running direct damage, have you considered using Wells?

Well of Darkness properly used can go a long way in mitigating damage and extending life span. If you pick up Chilling Darkness it’s also quite a potent soft control (Chill + Blind!) Well of Suffering also should synergize well with your set up as it does both direct damage and build heavy stacks of vulnerability.

Lastly, if they’re the type of thieves that continuously stealth, they’re trying to take advantage of the fact that your game does not render them out of stealth as fast as they do. Keep mobile and remember to have a stun break ready. Dropping a fear mark on yourself or going into DS + Fear (you can still do this while stunned or kd’d) gives you a little breathing room too.