Guild Wars 2

Burtnik.5218:

Ps. i also dont like the idea of a ranged gs.. i want to swing it like Artorias from DS.

Not too far off!

Aside from that, I’m just sad that the only other way to swing around like Artorias is dual wielding Majestic Greatswords in DkS2…which is a game I didn’t enjoy quite as much as DkS1.
Hopefully DkS3 is better (pls no spoil).

Euthymias.7984:

On the other hand, a part of me -really- wants Greatsword.
What if it were a Greatsword that was ranged (similar to Mesmer) but condition focused instead of power?

Why even have a GS if we’re not gonna be swinging it? I don’t even like how Mesmer uses it and I couldn’t care less for Twilight/Sunrise.
Might as well give us an under-distributed weapon like Pistol or Rifle or even Shortbow.
I think that would be better.

Ragion.2831:

This OP, i wasnt even going to dignify this suggestion with a response but its still being talked about, why? This type of topic bothers me because i fear with the sort of things Anet has pulled in the past, they might actually take this seriously.

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

Funnily enough, Hammer is really only used in WvW.
Higher end PvP players never seem to use it and PvE players only equip it because it’s the only real ranged option, not because it’s good.

Spicy.2481:

LucianDK.8615:

Azukas.1426:

I would LOVE GS for revenant.

Pistol I would say no too b/c you already have hammer as your ranged weapon set.

We have hammer as a POWER weapon. Its fairly bad for a condi build.
Pistols serves as condi weps for thieves and engineers.

Let me correct you abit here, only engineers use pistols as condi weapons. For thieves D/D is condi build and pistols are power weapons.

Thief Pistols can be used for Condi, albeit a bit gimmicky.

Azukas.1426:

LucianDK.8615:

Azukas.1426:

I would LOVE GS for revenant.

Pistol I would say no too b/c you already have hammer as your ranged weapon set.

We have hammer as a POWER weapon. Its fairly bad for a condi build.
Pistols serves as condi weps for thieves and engineers.

This game needs less condi and the hammer is ranged power. The other melee we got is melee condi in the mace.

Rev is the only class without a ranged Condition-applying weapon (Hammer only applies a very small Chill). Not having ranged condi kinda forces even more Shiro, really.

KrHome.1920:

Malchior.5732:

We have other legends…

The day they will become viable in some way we can discuss about the purpose of a low/non cooldown legend swap.

The subject was: Could a shorter legend swap compensate a non existent weapon swap. And my point is: In the current state of revenant it can’t.

That’s not easy to tell.
We would suddenly have a Mallyx that’s capable of spamming a lot more, a Glint that can reset much faster without having to blow cooldowns either (just pop all the good facets, swap, and swap back again in a few seconds for perma-Prot + Whatever for no penalty), and a much safer Ventari/Jalis (although probably still unused over the others).

EDIT:
People complain about it because the class obviously wasn’t designed with it in mind and we’re now eating a lot of nerfs because of it, some of which have kinda trampled over the entire point of playing Revenant in the first place.

KrHome.1920:

LucianDK.8615:

Not true. Faster access to utility skills and refreshing energy.

Glint Utilities have cooldowns between 15 and 45 seconds. So what do you expect from a 3 time legend swap during that interval?

The cooldown on the shiro skills are pretty low, but since the weapon skills also have their own cooldowns all you could do is quickness autoattacking while evading a few times.

We have other legends…

Pistol MH or Rifle would be cool.
We still don’t have a “Spellslinger” in this game (or many other games for that matter).

DHawk.2687:

Burtnik.5218:

DHawk.2687:

Malchior.5732:

DHawk.2687:

Malchior.5732:

DHawk.2687:

Burtnik.5218:

I dont have to when you even know your own class, in quote

“if you see the blind field, walk into it, making his heartseaker hit you reavealing him”.

At this point you cannot be taken serious, amber. Bai.

Ps. i dont play gw anymore

just shows you don’t have a clue what I’m talking about
a thief will heartseaker through the field multiple times
first time if he hits you he will yes stealth, but even then oftenly reveal himself because of automatic auto attack that some ppl have
and yes they will HS 2 or 3 times

….I’m sure a lot of Thieves turn off auto-attack for that very reason. We shouldn’t consider revealing themselves as the default situation because most good Thieves wont let it happen at all.
Now, they don’t HAVE to HS 2 or 3 times. If they know it’ll get them revealed, a single combo is enough to make some distance and then do it again.

I’m questioning your knowledge of Thief.

what is was saying was in the context of how to counter a thiefs stealth, not the way i play, but the way most thieves play, and most thieves are bad
I was counting up several situations where and how you can counter stealth because some ppl still act like it’s the most op thing in the game
which it’s not
try reading what the discussion is about first

We don’t consider garbage players when discussing things.
Try again.

well then 90% of the rev community shouldn’t be posting here atm

We have 4 regular posters on this section. Rest are some garbage randoms like you who jumps in and complain about anything really. At this point you should follow your own advice and stop posting here, for ppl like you theres a section called “PvP” which contains bunch of crying kids, you seems to fit there. Have a good day

lol first you talk kitten and give out only wrong info and kitten about systems not even in the game and when you have someone who doesn’t even know what our entire discussion was about backing you up you suddenly grow balls?
This game is unbalanced from top to bottom, that is why so many ppl are leaving gw
can’t wait to see 80% of the rev community reroll to the next op class as soon as you get nerfed, make sure you have a scrapper or necro ready

What info was wrong? You’re the one assuming the Thief player’s an idiot.
And if we wanted to reroll to the most OP thing, we would have already instead of playing inferior builds like core Rev or Ventari (or not playing gw2 at all).

Stand The Wall.6987:

Burtnik.5218:

Druid staff says hi. Surprise right?

lolk
the auto is ok but it has no burst

Druid Staff has more DPS than the other Ranger weapons…

Stand The Wall.6987:

Malchior.5732:

Just FYI, even if you somehow landed a 10k CoR every time in PvP, its DPS would still be bad compared to a lot of other weapons.

10k every 4 sec + what a 2.5-3k auto bad
lolk

dunno what to tell ya folks
putting mobility on a ranged power burst weapon is bad design
good luck figuring out why

10k every 4 seconds is 2500 DPS which is extremely generous.
Lets add in auto-attacks too and assume those ALWAYS crit for 4k each.

One Hammer Bolt takes 1.25 seconds to complete while CoR has a 3/4 cast time.
So in 10 seconds we can do about 6 auto-attacks and 2 CoR.
That gives us, with our EXTREMELY generous damage estimate: 4400 DPS

Out-classed in DPS by:
- Thief Dagger Autos + Occasional Leaping Dodge (~6100 DPS)
- Pure Braindead Thief Dagger Autos with max damage (~6500 DPS)
- Thief Dagger Autos + Clock and Dagger + Leaping Dodge (~7000 DPS)
- Thief Staff Autos + Leaping Dodge (~7000 DPS)
- Thief Staff Vault Spam (~7200 DPS with 12k+ burst)

I have mostly Thief numbers (admittedly they are from Zerker builds, but Marauders aren’t that much lower), but old Rev Sword numbers with a solid rotation was also about 7k DPS, so assuming again, that you have a good rotation and Precision Strike decides to hit the correct target, you again have ~7k DPS. Even just Rev Sword autos with Precision Strike will do quite a lot of DPS; more than anything Hammer Rev can possibly do.

Staff Ele is obviously much higher on a stationary target and less on a mobile one, although if we’re going to be fair here, an opponent that is moving a lot and moving perpendicular to you will NOT get hit by a max range CoR (and they will close the gap easily).

I don’t have DH LB DPS right now, but the burst is quite similar, but they have more utility and a LOT more control (and still not used in high-end PvP much if at all; much like Hammer Rev!).

Realistically, you’re going to do much less in PVE with full Zojja’s while in WvW with a Hammer Rev.
This is even lower in PvP, where you don’t have such high stats.

Fact is that Hammer has very poor DPS and good burst and not much else.
You keep acting like it’s damage is incomparable or that #4 is the best skill ever, but in reality, it’s only good in zergs and #4 is just stalling for a few seconds against other projectile users and can be useless if shot at from a different direction other than right in front of you.

Putting mobility on Hammer will just make it usable in other areas of the game as it simply doesn’t compete with anything as is.
Again, it’s only used in zergs and is only a problem in those zergs.
That’s not an excuse to keep the weapon in its crippled state in TWO entire modes.

Burtnik.5218:

Looking at latest Mike post im 100% sure that nothing will be done at all to improve revenant. But hey, theres Dark Souls 3 in april. All aboard the hype train.
Greatsword/dagger ftw

Really looking forward to DkS3. Can’t wait.

And then there’s also Overwatch coming out soon, so that’ll be fun too.

DHawk.2687:

Malchior.5732:

DHawk.2687:

Burtnik.5218:

I dont have to when you even know your own class, in quote

“if you see the blind field, walk into it, making his heartseaker hit you reavealing him”.

At this point you cannot be taken serious, amber. Bai.

Ps. i dont play gw anymore

just shows you don’t have a clue what I’m talking about
a thief will heartseaker through the field multiple times
first time if he hits you he will yes stealth, but even then oftenly reveal himself because of automatic auto attack that some ppl have
and yes they will HS 2 or 3 times

….I’m sure a lot of Thieves turn off auto-attack for that very reason. We shouldn’t consider revealing themselves as the default situation because most good Thieves wont let it happen at all.
Now, they don’t HAVE to HS 2 or 3 times. If they know it’ll get them revealed, a single combo is enough to make some distance and then do it again.

I’m questioning your knowledge of Thief.

what is was saying was in the context of how to counter a thiefs stealth, not the way i play, but the way most thieves play, and most thieves are bad
I was counting up several situations where and how you can counter stealth because some ppl still act like it’s the most op thing in the game
which it’s not
try reading what the discussion is about first

We don’t consider garbage players when discussing things.
Try again.

Stand The Wall.6987:

hammer dps is not horrendous. go test it in pvp versus the others you just mentioned. no ranged high damage weapon has mobility with it. that seems like a pretty good balance decision anet has made. the dh longbow doesnt have any defense, the class does but thats a discussion about the class as a whole. ele staff dps is not crazy high if you actually move around their pulsing aoe and dodge/escape their bad cc. id say ham4 is the best single skill to defend against projectiles. of course s/f ele has better with their 3-4 skills.

I think you should check again what DPS is and how it’s considered.
Just FYI, even if you somehow landed a 10k CoR every time in PvP, its DPS would still be bad compared to a lot of other weapons.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

The way the tablet works is what just kills Ventari. Since mobility is such a high factor in this game, the tablet is a mechanic that needs a serious overhaul. Changing the tablet to follow the Rev would solve this problem. In this case, the position would be handled by the Revenant’s own position and they could actually contribute to DPS rather than micro manage the tablet.

They would still not be picked over Druids because of the sheer amount of buffs they can give and better healing.

NameUnknown.6417:

Stand The Wall.6987:

NameUnknown.6417:

I know this thread is old, but starting to look at rev as a possible healer. Are they still viable?

they never were and wont be in wvw/pvp unless ventari/jalis/salvation undergoes some major changes.

I was looking more at PVE and dungeon running. Watched a few videos that made them look decent, but they were a few months old.

It can work technically, but you’re far better off with a Druid.
The druid has/is:

- Better burst healing
- Easier to play
- A ton of group-wide damage buffs (this will make the Druid the better choice almost every time above any other healer)
- Better mobility
- Better self-sustain
- Condi DPS

The Ventari Rev doesn’t really bring much over the Druid right now except a really good projectile block, which can be covered by a Guardian.

Alternatively, the Tempest also heals team mates really well while also providing better support and damage.

Stand The Wall.6987:

i did just say that about hard counters didnt i. gg me.

i think in wvw it would add a ton of survivabilty to the hamrev. their one crutch is mobility and if you take that away, it only further promotes pirate shipping. i also think it would be a huge boost to small team but in a bad way. on top of one of the hardest hitting ranged weapons and the best projectile defense skill in the game, they get a 1200 range teleport, making locking them down incredibly hard if youre not a thief or rev.

Hammer DPS is horrendous. All it has going for it is the burst damage (which honestly, I rarely hit over 8k-9k on a full Zojja Invo/Dev/Herald build at max range) and the small projectile defense skill, which is FAR from being the best. Every other aspect is completely outclassed.
Ranger LB has longer range, better DPS, more utility and reasonable burst.
DH LB has about as much damage, more defense, and much better CC.
Ele Staff has crazy high DPS, a ton more utility, and more mobility.
etc.

The fact is that Rev Hammer is a poor ranged weapon by itself and all it’s really used for is to spam CoR and zergs happen to be the perfect place to do that. I highly doubt that a mobility skill will suddenly “break” the Hammer more in WvW. It if gets one, it shouldn’t be 1200 range, but it should be reasonable enough to create some distance, because as is, Hammer is completely useless when the gap is closed.

Now, I’m all for giving CoR more counter-play (like making CoR a projectile) in exchange for making Hammer actually usable in other areas of the game (it already received several nerfs that make it borderline useless everywhere).

Also, I’d say Elementalist holds the absolute best projectile defense in the game with:

- Swirling Wings (6 full seconds that covers a wide area on a 30s cooldown)
- Magnetic Wave (3 seconds of reflection that also cures 3 conditions, is a blast finisher, and can be traited to have a ~16s cooldown)
- Technically Obsidian Flesh (4 seconds of invulnerability with a 33s cooldown when traited; literally can’t do anything to this)
- AoE Magnetic Aura (So now 5 people get to be immune to projectiles!)

DHawk.2687:

Burtnik.5218:

I dont have to when you even know your own class, in quote

“if you see the blind field, walk into it, making his heartseaker hit you reavealing him”.

At this point you cannot be taken serious, amber. Bai.

Ps. i dont play gw anymore

just shows you don’t have a clue what I’m talking about
a thief will heartseaker through the field multiple times
first time if he hits you he will yes stealth, but even then oftenly reveal himself because of automatic auto attack that some ppl have
and yes they will HS 2 or 3 times

….I’m sure a lot of Thieves turn off auto-attack for that very reason. We shouldn’t consider revealing themselves as the default situation because most good Thieves wont let it happen at all.
Now, they don’t HAVE to HS 2 or 3 times. If they know it’ll get them revealed, a single combo is enough to make some distance and then do it again.

I’m questioning your knowledge of Thief.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Malchior.5732:

The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.

…and when you do it becomes that much more powerful. shiro is necessary for mobility because with both shiro and this ham3 change/another legend, the weapon would be way too strong.

Swagger.1459:

Some of you really have to think how things function in competitive encounters, not just mindless zerg spam battles.

some of you need to consider balance as a whole. a likely scenario is that you dont want to take shiro so you can use glint/malyx to defend against revs hard counter. hard counters should exist for obvious reasons.

lolwat

Literally the same exact thing happened with Necro Wells and Staff Ele.
In small skirmishes, they were next to useless, but suddenly meta in zergs.
We should probably complain more about Static Field, which only has one counter: Stability. Can’t dodge through it, can’t really see it coming, can’t stop it. You better have easy Stab or you’re trapped.

Now, you say that with Shiro and a Hammer 3 change, the weapon would be too strong?
I don’t understand at all.
Shiro is good for engaging, which is literally the opposite of what you want to do with Hammer. The best Shiro can do is Riposting Shadows which is energy expensive and is your only real defense while in Shiro. Admittedly, it’s helpful for repositioning, but it’s literally the ONLY skill we have for that and further forces us into Shiro.

Now, assume Hammer now also has a mobility skill that helps it create distance.
What would change in big zergs? Probably not much at all.
What would happen in small skirmishes? Suddenly Hammer isn’t total garbage.

Also, hard counters should NOT exist in this game. Look at Diamond Skin Ele pre-change. It wasn’t fun for anyone wanting to play Condi builds and because this game doesn’t allow you to swap characters mid-fight, there’s literally nothing you can do except not fight them at all.
THAT is poor design.

Soft counters = good
Hard counters = BAD

Please consider balance as a whole and not just WvW.

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

while being able to 1v1, group fight, and sustain.

Isn’t that the whole reason to even take Revenant?

Doing it all while having mobility and pumping out THAT much damage is broken.

I understand you don’t want to lose your shiny new toy but overall game balance is more important than your desires

It’s funny because blind nerfing seems to be your desire.
Anyway, I barely play Power Herald (or any Herald variant) or even GW2 anymore.
The current pvp meta isn’t fun to me at all because everything is overtuned, I don’t have the time to raid right now, and WvW is just a mindless distraction every so often.

So no, I’m not afraid of losing anything and I’ve already said what I think is too strong on Rev countless time (and so has Burtnik and many others).
We literally can’t do anything except wait for the Devs to respond.
Some of us don’t care if Herald gets nerfed as long as the undertuned aspects of Rev get fixed up, but because of how balance has been handled and because of mindless whining, we’re probably just going to get a big fat nerf and be left like that.

Azukas.1426:

while being able to 1v1, group fight, and sustain.

Isn’t that the whole reason to even take Revenant?

MakubeC.3026:

Artemid.3925:

Remember too that Glint has a stun break on turning over Facet of Darkness.

Dude, what?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Herald

As in using the skill after Facet of Darkness.

Turn over Facet of Darkness → Now you have access to a stun break

alchemyst.2165:

It’s not op in the sense that it can beat everything 1v1. It’s op because it can do basically everything at once. Team fight, support, damage, 1v1, mobility, all at once.

I know what you’re saying, but technically, Tempest/Ele, Scrapper/Engi, Chrono and even Druid all do everything in that list (although the meta Tempest doesn’t really focus on dealing damage, at least not as much as the old D/D Ele).

Stand The Wall.6987:

hammer is notoriously strong in wvw. it should have at least some risk when using it instead of giving revs another tool to escape with.

The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.

DHawk.2687:

uhm tbh when is the last time you actually played thief, let’s just look at the pvp side, a backstab does 4-6k dmg, a backstab!!! which should be the hardest single target burst skill in the game, but it’s not, we don’t have sustained dmg, that is the definition of burst, get in, unload, get out, and as a thief you die when you try to do that unless the target is really low or dumb, or both, and there has to be noone or tops 1 other player near him or else he’ll just faceroll you if you try to fight, all thief can do nowadays is run away
rev uses sword 3 higher dmg than 1 backstab and you are 100%invuln during the attack and it ports and you gain might
hell precision strike can do more dmg than a backstab
as herald you have might, fury and spee 24/7
thief got nerfed for having might in stealth (which was a LOT weaker than rev might fury and swiftness uptime but ok)
but this is not about thief issues, it’s rev issues, the problem with almost every class except for thief and warrior (warrior just a little) is the insane power creep with added high sustain (best example scrapper) and rev is certanly up there too
and yes the energy cost is something to work with, but it’s nothing near the ini system which punishes spamming MUCH more than energy, since energy regens much faster than ini does
some ppl are arguing that the weapon swap is what is making rev too strong, which could be right, but the whole class is so hard to balance at this point that what anet should do is rebalance every class in the whole game and start from scratch

It’s a fact that Thief has higher sustained DPS than Revenant (~27k vs 19k respectively at best; this obviously scales down in PvP, but the ratio is still there and you can try it out yourself with a DPS meter; IIRC, Thief Dagger autos are also quite a bit stronger than Rev Sword autos and about as strong as a proper DPS rotation of a Rev) and higher burst potential overall; not necessarily with Backstab, but it’s definitely much higher than what you can normally do with Precision Strike, more reliable, more controllable and has less counters.

It’s also a fact that Thief has much higher mobility than anyone else in both engaging and escaping. I honestly think this is what will keep Thief from ever being the team fighter that people want because mobility is just so powerful (imagine a Thief that can stay in fights, has higher mobility and damage than the Revenant, and has Stealth/Steal on top of that; it wont happen unless Thief takes some hits).

Revenant has thief-like damage (it’s lower by a decent amount) and thief-like engaging skills (but with bad disengaging skills and no stealth) and a beefier body.
Thus, Revenant is just much better at team fighting. It brings enough of what a team needs and its weaknesses are more easily covered than a Thief’s, who can blow up much faster.

Again, I’m not saying Herald is fine as is, but it doesn’t do more damage or have more mobility than Thief; that’s just not true.

Asrat.2645:

I have absolutely no problem with the revenant having higher sustain than a thief.
But in exchange, it should not offer the same options in damage and mobility either and exceed in boon application.

See, the fact is that Thief has higher burst, higher sustained damage and more mobility (both for engaging and escaping). Whether it’s usable in the current PvP meta is a different case.
The problem is that staying in team fights is much more important now and that’s where Thief starts to falter. Revenant works even better with Auramancer support, which lets it stay in a fight even longer.

Herald has boons, but it was designed to be a group support spec. Base Revenant has very little group support itself.
I do agree that Herald does too much and needs some changes, but then again, so do most elite specs.

Asrat.2645:

Ok first of all: there are a lot, srsly a lot of bad revenants I see running around. Or maybe not bad but decent. But the very few good players I meet are untouchable (not as much as an ele or scrapper, but those deserve theit own nerfs), deal high damage without much counterplay and are extremely mobile.
So, what exactly is op about the revenant? When I first read through their traits and skills, I made a ‘wtf.txt’ document and listed everything I could not believe. The main thing is: they are not op in a way like reaper or ele or scrapper, but literally everything they have features no weakness. They try to be a thief in damage and mobility, a guard in blocks and stability and an engi in cc. Condi removal might be the only place where they lack. Everything else was designed as: no counterplay pls.
I seem to have lost my list, so I will try to reconstruct it.

What I do not like about revenants

hide spoiler

I do not propose to just nerf everything I list here. But these are the skills, that seem
a) pretty powerful
b) flawed in design
So at least they should be looked at.
I would love to see other choices get buffed instead, to promote a gameplay based on skill and active play instead of uncounterables and passives.

-Rampant vex. Not particulary strong but literally a thief trait x3 (better condi, longer condi, every weapon)

-Empty vessel. Thats a lot of stunbreak in one trait. It would be ok, if it wasnt a minor choice.

-Roiling mists and manical presence. One of them would be ok, not both. If you dont take precision stats, you should not crit. That is that.

-Malicious reprisal. The icd makes it somewhat ok, but again: this is nothing but avoiding counterplay, especially when combined with cruel repercussion. If your foe Uses a block skill, you should not get some passive effect, that rewards you for hitting them anyways.

-Assassins annihilation. Strong skill, no doubt. Would probably be ok, if the rest gets tuned down. But also one of the skills, that is a punch in the face for every thief to see it on another class.

-Retribution. The whole traitline is awful. Nobody told them to avoid passive effects I think.

-Unwavering avoidance. No way. Simply no way. Stability gained so easy is just plain wrong. And enchanced bulwark makes it unbearable. EB would be ok without this trait. But the ‘synergy’ is completely broken.

-Dwarven battle training: drastically reduces the impact of one of the best conditions to counter powerbuilds.

-Eye for an eye. Im not being completely fair here. Each and every of these passive counters hould be removed.

-Versed in stone…Nothing to say here.The skill itself has counterplay, the trait takes that away. And adds yet another passive defense. why?!

-Radiant revival. What do you do if someone is ressing? thats right, you cleave. What happens if you cleave on radiant revival? exactly. So you can choose to either let the rev ress in peace or speed up his process. The stability should make sure, he doent get interrupted by mistake…A trait that takes from you your usual options to counterplay without giving you an alternative.

-Soothing bastion…more passives…

-Enduring recovery. If this was not a revenant trait, it would grant you vigor.

-The overall damage reduction across all traitlines is also a bit high.

-Surge of the mists
We discussed that in another thread. High damage, no pre-casting animation, knockback, evade frame. all of that is too much. at least one of those attributes needs to go. Preferably the evade, to make a hard-to-use skill instead of a safe burst.

-Crystal hibernation. Remove the healing, allow movement. There is no reason at all, why this should be better than any block on for example warrior.

-Precision strike or unrelenting assault. Its ok if your sword gives you one hart hitting, hard to avoid skill. It can be dodged. But you should not have two.

I really cant say much about the utility skills. Most seem pretty reasonable, but I can not judge that, without playing rev myself.

-Just one: Riposting shadows. An extremely powerful skill by removing conditions, giving you two evades and being a no cd stunbreak.

Let me know if you heavily disagree on one of these, but pls keep in mind, that I would nerf every class if I could, and not only the rev.
This is one of the most promising attempts on good balance in my eyes.

While some observations are fine, a lot of them seem too focused on comparing classes.

The Revenant must manage Energy for both Weapon and Utility skills along with cooldowns (mostly on the weapons).
Their weaknesses come from lack of Condi Removal, a CC vulnerability (without Enhanced Bulwark + Unwavering Avoidance), and having to manage Energy to do anything.

There is a reason that a Revenant’s Block should be somewhat better than a Warrior’s:
Energy cost, lack of options, more vulnerable to Conditions overall, etc.

There is a reason that a Revenant should have better staying power than a Thief:
lower burst damage, lower sustained damage, less mobility, no stealth, barely any escapes, etc.

You should play the class first and then actually judge it.
I suggest you play without Herald first and then with and then make a proper assessment.

Again, this isn’t to say that you’re totally wrong or anything (I dislike the perma-Stab and I think some of the damage in PvP is too high while the survivability might be a bit too good), but you definitely should play the class first. It’ll give you a much better idea about how it all actually plays out.

Saiyan.1704:

Staff#5 isn’t nearly as problematic as the uncounterable, uninterruptable and high damaging Sword#3… how are people not mentioning this skill instead?

Because it is technically counterable and interruptable during it’s 3/4s cast time and 450 range.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

While I agree with you, the skill is closer to GS3 which IS an evade and can also do a ton of damage (albeit not a CC).

I bolded the most important part.

Yes, I realize that.
GS5 is still not what Staff 5 should be compared to.
Actually, you shouldn’t compare these weapons or professions at all.

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Amityel.5324:

this weapon skill is balanced its only l2p issue

Last time I’ve read this was when DHs tried to explain me 9k test of Faith is balanced.

Rev needs an allround nerf. The ability to have longer quickness as with a timewarp, the elite skill with 98530503 years cooldown, (we are speaking of 1 tw with pvp settings, basicly no bonus stats in concentration), and some other things are just a nightmare. Not to mention sword #3 which has likely infinite gap closer range. A skill that can chase you at maxium portal range (5000?!) is what the devs actually call ‘balanced’..

Staff 5 needs a precast time of at least 3/4 sec with a visible effect. It can deal more dmg as DHs True Shot, has one of the strongest cc you can have in pvp, and has invul for 1 sec.

Rev is just the overfeeded beloved child which has been created to force ppl to buy the addon. When the next comes, you can count me out. Im definitively not going to bother this mindless upgrade cancer one more time.

This post is so disingenuous that it’s physically painful.

Alekt.5803:

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

While I agree with you, the skill is closer to GS3 which IS an evade and can also do a ton of damage (albeit not a CC).

It’s too powerful. Watch it get nerfed.

I would say that certain aspects of Revenant are unhealthy design, but straight OP? Eh. It’s definitely pretty strong, but when things like Scrappers and Reapers are running around, I think that currently it’s fair game.

However, I would LOVE for most of the elite specs to be toned down a decent amount and some aspects redesigned. Will that happen? Probably not, but I can hope.

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

You’re cherry picking where you apply your opinion on the matter. So it’s ok to swap off mesmer but they didn’t swap off double rev because they were used to it.

Please stop littering this thread and stay on topic from here on out. What would YOU do to tone down an over performing rev.

Thanks

Maybe because they could only stack one class and Mesmer was nerfed so hard that running a single one makes no sense?

:^)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Again, I’m pointing out how your premise is flawed. Nothing more.
I even told you how to properly go about this whole thing!

Yeah we’ll just let you off the hook here. Please contribute to the thread or gracefully bow out.

If you decide to stay please discuss which aspect of the rev you believe should be toned down.

Thank you in advance

I’ll let you start :^)

Evade/Block attacks, use Reflects, wait it out, use Poison, and I think Blindness counts?

Azukas.1426:

You’re cherry picking where you apply your opinion on the matter. So it’s ok to swap off mesmer but they didn’t swap off double rev because they were used to it.

Please stop littering this thread and stay on topic from here on out. What would YOU do to tone down an over performing rev.

Thanks

Maybe because they could only stack one class and Mesmer was nerfed so hard that running a single one makes no sense?

:^)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Again, I’m pointing out how your premise is flawed. Nothing more.
I even told you how to properly go about this whole thing!

Azukas.1426:

You argue with emotion and disprove your “point” with each continual post.

sigh
It’s ironic. It really is.

My entire point is that your point is flawed. They did swap out Mesmers. That’s true.
Probably because they received the biggest game-changing nerfs and the next best things were Scrapper and Necro, neither of which stacks as well as Revenant.

You cannot assume that Revenant is OP just because it was stacked; it was stacked because it fulfilled the needed role best: Thief doesn’t sustain well enough by itself and the extra mobility and damage wasn’t needed, Warrior lacks self-sustain as well, and Guardian (or rather DH) is a bit gimmicky and easily countered (especially by Auramancers). They needed team fighters and out of the remaining options, Revenant was best.

However, you can arrive at the conclusion that Rev is OP from something more concrete: real examples.
Ex1. “I think the high mobility combined with the high amount of damage and defense makes it a tad too strong and difficult to deal with.”

People wouldn’t be arguing with you as much if you had brought up an actual point, but your current logic is flawed. It has no real basis.

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

I know what you are saying.

You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.

Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.

Also quit down playing this class.

So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.

I’ll give you one final example:

In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.

Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.

Solo =/= High-end Team Play

Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).

If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.

Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.

So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.

You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.

You completely missed the point, again.

You do not have one. You can’t pull the Rev class is comfortable card when all the players have been playing the other classes for over three years. Your actual point works against you because everyone was used to the other 8 classes before rev dropped 3 months ago.

So why they abandon the classes they are used to to stack 2-3 revs per team?

I’ll give ya hint: It aint because they are comfortable with the rev.

You keep relating this to Revenant being OP when that is completely irrelevant to my point. I’m just pointing out a flaw in your logic, but you keep thinking I’m defending Revs!

You continue failing to understand why teams might not want to swap classes back and forth on the fly (which destroys your main premise), but obviously you know better.

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

I know what you are saying.

You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.

Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.

Also quit down playing this class.

So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.

I’ll give you one final example:

In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.

Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.

Solo =/= High-end Team Play

Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).

If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.

Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.

So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.

You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.

You completely missed the point, again.

Azukas.1426:

I know what you are saying.

You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.

Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.

Also quit down playing this class.

So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.

I’ll give you one final example:

In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.

Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.

Solo =/= High-end Team Play

Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).

If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.

Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.

Ok, guys and gals.
The Herald does need some nerfs and changes. However, we can say the same for most of the elite specs. Druid, Tempest, Scrapper, and even Dragonhunter all need some nerfs and changes in some way. Some more than others. Stop ignoring that fact.

The Herald is also NOT the main culprit for certain classes being left out. It is a symptom, not the cause. Thief and Warrior simply CANNOT stay in these chaotic, post-HoT team fights to deliver their damage (at least not easily) while the Herald is pretty much designed for it (Auramancer healing helps a ton too). Thief and Warrior both have advantages over the Herald, but those advantages simply don’t matter much in Conquest right now. Dragonhunter mostly relies on gimmicky damage and their job gets MUCH more difficult as soon as a Tempest joins the fight (notice how it’s not the Herald’s fault?).
It’s not the Herald that’s pushing them out; it’s the environment created by the other elite specs in unison that is pushing them out.

Alekt.5803:

Quadox.7834:

Burtnik.5218:

Quadox.7834:

Burtnik.5218:

Quadox.7834:

Alekt.5803:

-Surge of the Mist. Reduce damage by 20%. Now procs only one stack of stability.

-Chaotic Release. No longer refunds cooldown and energy when interrupted or cancelled.

-Jade Wind. No longer refunds cooldown and energy when interrupted or cancelled. Cooldown is now 45 seconds.

-Warding Rift. The projectile now applies 3 seconds of weakness instead of blind.

-Precision Strike. Cast time raised to 3/4 seconds, up from 1/2 seconds. Skill no longer targets invisible or stealthed foes. Chill duration reduced to 1 second, down from 1.5 seconds. Damage reduced by 15%.

-Burst of Strenght. Vulnerability stack reduced to 5, down from 10. Duration raised to 8 seconds, up from 6.

-Elemental Blast. Add a 0.5 seconds delay before first tick of damage to better match with Elementalist’s Lava Font OR adjust Lava Font to match Elemental Blast.

-Riposting Shadow. Add a 5 seconds cooldown.

Really good, +1

Really good for someone who has no idea how revenant works (its energy type profession, not cooldown based). On top of that full cd if interrupted.. lmao good joke

Wait did you only have a problem with one of his suggestions?

With all of his suggestions. Not sure why he even suggest about rev when he doesnt know it works. But well.. im not surprised given his ele staff aa comprasion to other aa. Next episode will be ele staff aa vs rifle warrior aa, asking for a nerf to rifle cus he got outdpsed.

Can you explain why you disagree on everything?

He disagree because of an “entertainment” thread I made comparing an auto-attack fight of a settler revenant against marauder ele. Because I make jokes, it means I am dumb and all my following suggestions are bad.

Because you revealed your true colors later in the thread and then repeated the same “test” later on, but with Druid Staff.
Call it a joke, but the propaganda is real.

nicknamenick.2437:

Malchior.5732:

nicknamenick.2437:

Sidizen.9048:

Are all of these bugs still in the game?

Allot of these bugs are not just a Revenant bug, other classes have the same problems like

- uneven terrain stuff
- LoS
- Leap distance not the same as tooltip
- no red circles
- animation bugs
- Block and the animation are not sync
-etc

Allot of these problems have been reported on other classes but have been forgotten or people just dont care anymore, its not just Revenant.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t on the Revenant nor does it excuse their existence.

do you know the meaning of “Not just” ? and maby read the full post before saying stuff i didnt even stated, all i say is that allot of these bugs doesnt come with Revenant only, its a game engine problem mostly that Anet cant/wont/will not solve or whatever, its in this game sinces start, so you can say Revenant is still beta or whatever, doesnt matter, most of this stuff does not get solved, thats what i am telling you guys.

It’s more of a clarification rather than an attack.

nicknamenick.2437:

Sidizen.9048:

Are all of these bugs still in the game?

Allot of these bugs are not just a Revenant bug, other classes have the same problems like

- uneven terrain stuff
- LoS
- Leap distance not the same as tooltip
- no red circles
- animation bugs
- Block and the animation are not sync
-etc

Allot of these problems have been reported on other classes but have been forgotten or people just dont care anymore, its not just Revenant.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t on the Revenant nor does it excuse their existence.

Azukas.1426:

1. You are telling me that the pro thieves have more practice with a class released last November over thier main class of 3 yrs or thier alts of 3 yrs….lololol Stop.

2. The game is balanced around conquest so your entire argument is null. The 3 classes left out completely have all had extensive periods of time in the meta. They just suddenly become poorly designed for conquest.

3. No not all classes can do multiple jobs. Necros are immobile, eles don’t burst, etc etc etc. Revs got speed, sustain, burst, and support. Remember when cele ele had all that?? I remember every class that had all that and they are ALWAYS too strong.

4. Something is considered too strong or over performing when the amount of effort put in yields too much reward. So what happens in the instance when you have a REALLY talented player in that scenario? I’ll tell you it’s #5 on the list.

5. Anet has officially stated that when you start seeing a profession stacked they are over performing and need to be looked at. That’s the devs words.

Thank you

1. You clearly don’t understand what I say, but instead just answer to things you think I was saying. If they have done practice games with 2x Revenants the entire time, there is ZERO reason to try any other class when tournament time comes. You don’t just suddenly swap what you’ve been practicing with your team unless the situation calls for it, but since you can’t swap classes during a match, there’s no reason to go back to Thief (which I’ll explain further later).

2. Correction: They attempt to balance around Conquest. Many changes are in fact for PvE and/or roamers rather than Conquest’s main goal of sitting on a point. The 3 classes left out are all being left out because of the new harsh environment. Revenant isn’t the only new opponent here; do you honestly think Rev is the only reason that Thief, Warrior, and Guardian aren’t being used as much?

Thief just cannot handle the AoE spamfest in team fights and its been relegated to decapping and +1ing fights for so long (which are both unneeded now as many classes have more mobility and the game is more teamfight-oriented) that it’s just not needed right now, despite having higher damage and mobility than the Revenant.

Warrior has the same problem. It just can’t sustain through the team fights.

Guardian simply doesn’t put enough on the table to be considered. Dragonhunter is somewhat gimmicky and countered by Auramancers and those same Auramancers can also tank and heal/support the team better too (notice how it’s Tempest that knocks Guard out of the meta, not Revenants?).

3. Being immobile and not having burst are not jobs. You’re being disingenuous. What do Tempests do? Boon Support, CC, Healing, and are also quite tanky.
What do Scrappers do? CC, damage, and are also tanky.
What do Revenants do? Mobility, Damage and Boon Support.
What do Druids do? Mobility, Healing, CC, and some Damage.

Don’t twist reality to suit your argument.

4. Have you ever heard of a skill ceiling? Whatever, point is that something being easy to use does not necessarily make it OP, it just makes it more accessible.
I’m going to take Hellbat drops from StarCraft 2 as an example. They weren’t really difficult to use and their reward was very high when they succeeded in their mission (they could easily win games), however, even decent players learned how to counter them. So despite how easy they were to use and how high their reward was, they weren’t considered OP by anyone except low rank players who couldn’t react properly.
The Hellbat was still used by several army compositions and not just for dropping inside bases and it remained a low-skill unit with a high reward, but it wasn’t really OP.
I could use other examples if you want.
You cannot correlate ease of use with being overpowered, especially when high-skill builds can also be overpowered.

5. I haven’t personally seen this quote so I’ll take your word for it. Regardless of what they said, they set themselves up for this to happen.
They gave teams room to stack a single class, so why would they NOT stack the class they’ve practiced (in their team comp, remember #1) so much with, isn’t annihilated immediately by the current threats, and still brings something to the table?
Revenant isn’t pushing Thief/Warrior/Guard out of the meta; the meta is pushing them out by requiring things they simply don’t have (i.e. Revenant is better at Conquest than them right now).
We also need to mention that pro-league DOES NOT reflect most of the ladder. People are experiencing different things right now.
Even in SC2, you would NOT have the same meta as pro players unless you were in Grandmaster or Master rank alongside them which the majority of players were not. Blizzard used pro players to help them balance, but they weren’t the only factor to consider either.

That being said, I do believe the Rev needs some nerfs and changes (along with everyone else!), but the way you arrived at that conclusion is faulty and dangerous.
Not to mention that you clearly don’t understand the class enough to provide any real suggestions, but just come here pointing fingers. You should have expected this kind of response from everyone.

MadVisions.4529:

Burtnik.5218:

Actual changes
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eWstXzT4_9KG4Q4HifB-ZrCA-8tgBel0RaYnQlfdgtk/edit?usp=sharing

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
no words for this man XDDDDDDDDDDDD

and all these comments here too…. XDDDDDDDDDDDD
at least pls mention that you want these changes for pve only XDD k?

Good counter-arguments, dude.
Keep it up.

Tell him how it is: we love our broken, buggy mess of a class how it is!

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

As a final note: there is a difference between evidence and proof.

The fact that Revs were stacked in tournaments is evidence that Revs are somewhat OP.
However, it is NOT proof.

There is also evidence that suggest that Revenants are struggling in the current meta, because pro-league gameplay does not necessarily reflect ladder play (which is currently infested with difficult match-ups).

Evidence:
1. All pro thieves/warriors switched to rev in pro league
2. 3-5 classes are locked out of meta by rev
3. Revs do multiple jobs in a match
4 Revs are low skill friendly
5. Revs after a nerf are still stacked

The evidence adds up to proof. Stop denying the truth

The thing is that all of those are incredibly debatable.

1. They have practiced with Revenant with their current teams more; makes sense to stick to Rev. You could argue that Rev is still better regardless, but I point you to:

2. That’s arguably more to do with Conquest being poorly designed and even then, they’re not locked out because of the Revenant, but usually other factors (i.e. Thief cannot stay in an AoE spam-fest and there are more answers to their decaps like Portal/more mobile bunkers/phase traversal/more teamfights/etc. while Warrior lacks sustain, for example).

3. That literally means nothing. Lots of classes can do multiple jobs; that’s why they’re taken over more niche/restricted options.

4. Actually, since they rely mostly on active defenses, I’d argue that they require higher skill than a lot of other builds, especially older ones. Remember HamBow Warrior when it dominated the ladder? or Turret Engi? This is also not evidence that Rev is OP in the slightest. Even if it was super braindead easy to use, it does not mean it’s OP.

5. Go back to #1.

None of these are concrete evidence except arguably #1.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Sword MH
2. Precision Strike – I prefer the current implementation which uses Precision strike for single target burst damage. Obviously, bugs need to be fixed, like prioritizing players over minions or walls… Cooldown here is fine, IMO. Energy cost could be increased to 10.
3. Unrelenting Assault – Again, I like sword as a single target dueling/burst weapon rather than a AoE weapon. I think Staff should be our AoE weapon. Instead, I would like to see UA have a smaller bounce radius and perhaps a longer activation range (e.g. bounce radius = 150, activation range = 600). It would then act as a gap closer and be less likely to bounce off onto secondary targets (though still possible). I would reduce the cd to 10 seconds and maybe reduce damage a bit too. IMO, UA should be used for avoidance and sustained damage rather than burst damage.

The thing is the current iteration of Sword functions more as an AoE weapon because of it’s automatic targeting (you can’t control how many targets to hit aside from just not being in range; this gives you very little control and your version doesn’t fix much). It becomes weaker at its job as more targets appear.

It’s also arguable that the current Sword has a bit too much single target Burst damage.

As a final note: there is a difference between evidence and proof.

The fact that Revs were stacked in tournaments is evidence that Revs are somewhat OP.
However, it is NOT proof.

There is also evidence that suggest that Revenants are struggling in the current meta, because pro-league gameplay does not necessarily reflect ladder play (which is currently infested with difficult match-ups).

savacli.8172:

Mechalibur.9618:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

I hope that Anet can actually made some encounters truly mechanics based and not timer based. I played other games that if you made a mistake (possible to recover but really hard to do so) your party would wipe and not ever was the pressure on from a timer.

Timers make it boring and don’t do what Anet said would happen. The end of zerker meta. In fact those timers did the opposite it made zerker even more prevalent.

So lets all really hope that Anet learned a real lesson and can make something not timer based. (Probably not).

In over 200 raid encounters, I’ve lost maybe 2 to the enrage timer. Unless everyone in your group is running soldier gear or you’re doing some kind of low player challenge, you should be having very little trouble getting the boss down before the timer.

There needs to be some form of time-pressure; it’s pretty much mandatory to prevent only wearing defensive gear and winning by attrition.

Gorsy and Sabetha already have this though. In the second encounter you only have 4 updrafts to work with. Once they’re gone you can’t win the fight since there’s a world-eater attack you can’t avoid now. Against Sabetha, the cannons and heavy bombs will eventually eat away at the platform. The timer in both those cases are redundant as the encounter mechanics would already prevent something like 10 man nomad. VG is about the only one that needs a proper “end encounter” mechanic because the fight could go on indefinitely if the timer were to be taken away in its current state.

As I’ve mentioned, the timer is still there regardless (either the clock at the top right or the mechanics) and removing the countdown just inconveniences everyone.
There’s no good reason to remove the timer.

Azukas.1426:

Malchior.5732:

Azukas.1426:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Azukas.1426:

The one to Rule.2593:

Azukas.1426:

The one to Rule.2593:

Azukas.1426:

draxynnic.3719:

At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.

Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.

The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”

(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)

The one to Rule.2593:

wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.

Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.

Last finals had 2 revs a team

That warrants a nerfing by all regards.

As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer

You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.

It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.

The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.

way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.

Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.

We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.

Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias

So pretty much your posts

That would be true except for the fact you’ve missed me championing the complete and utter gutting of chronomancer which is my main class.

Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.

That doesn’t disprove bias, however.
Alekt posts about wanting Elementalist nerfs, but his hate for Revenants is ridiculously obvious and he fails to consider the class’ mechanics and the rest of their kit when suggesting his extreme nerfs. He is still bias against Revenants, even though he wants Elementalists nerfed (which consequently is not for the direct health of the game, but to justify future buffs).

Maybe he’s onto something called game balance. I’ve never read his posts so I can’t tell 1st hand.

What people need to realize is its time to nerf the power creep. We need to balance HoT with not only all the elites but core specs as well.

Now everyone might say well just buff the classes who suck up to rev level. To them I counter with this:

How has the answer of more power creep worked so far?

Failed miserably.

I like how you ignore my main point and start your own.

Burtnik.5218:

Well next balance patch will tell if they ever bothered to take a look.

Probable Answer: No.

Hopeful Answer: They skimmed over it.