Uh, guys, Hammer 3 is alright, but it’s just a stalling tool at best. It’s a DPS loss, it’s easy to see coming, animation is very long and also doesn’t work properly on certain terrain.
Hammer 4 is cool, but I think it’s a tad too slow.
Hammer 5 is awful.Overall, it’s not a great weapon outside of CoR spam, it’s TERRIBLE at kiting, and has basically 0 tools for opening the gap.
It’s far from being the best ranged weapon.You are Revenant with 10 utility skills lol, you dont need more.
What that lol is supposed to mean? Do you even have a idea what utility and weapons skills are? Do you know that they have completely different purposes? Are you trying to tell us that we are supposed to kill ppl with utility skills? Now thats lol worthy.
Hammer was terrible outside of CoR spam and everyone knows it. And when the gap was closed rev had to fight with one weapon set as hammer unlike dh lb loses all it damage and it doesnt have anything else going for like passive knock and stab just bc dh used his auto in close range.
Also funny thread when it comes to true shot, we can see how some objective people are in reality!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/True-shot-BSSorry i has only 550 hours play time on my Revenant over the past 100 day (it is 5.5 hours every day for your information), really am not objective hehe.
Maybe first time start play all class in this game and don’t stunck on one single class and write every time " buuuu my class is so bad" I really like this forum warriors with zero skill in game.
Yea, you’re not objective at all lol
@ above poster: I would say that Hammer, outside of cleaving with CoR in open world, is complete trash for PvE as well (I.e. instanced content). If it wasn’t our only ranged option, I wouldn’t touch it and even then, I prefer Staff for the utility.
It seems like people who think Hammer is fine, and I’m obviously just making a generalization, just think of the damage CoR can do and don’t consider that the weapon is flawed as a ranged option.
Any good weapon should:
1. Be good at some range.
2. Try to keep the target at that range.
Most good weapons follow those, but Hammer fails hard at #2 which makes it bad at anything other than open world PvE (and it lacks the DPS or utility for raids) or WvW where you can hide behind a zerg and spam.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Uh, guys, Hammer 3 is alright, but it’s just a stalling tool at best. It’s a DPS loss, it’s easy to see coming, animation is very long and also doesn’t work properly on certain terrain.
Hammer 4 is cool, but I think it’s a tad too slow.
Hammer 5 is awful.
Overall, it’s not a great weapon outside of CoR spam, it’s TERRIBLE at kiting, and has basically 0 tools for opening the gap.
It’s far from being the best ranged weapon.
It’s not just about bugs…
I find it hard to believe that you don’t think this class is riddled with bugs and half-finished concepts.
I find it hard to believe you got that idea from ANYTHING I have posted thus far.
“You’re just sensational and it doesn’t make your point any stronger; half functional class? You must be with the guy that finds Rev hard to play.”
Sensational: “presenting information in a way that is intended to provoke public interest and excitement, at the expense of accuracy.”
Seems like you were trying to make that point.
I find it hard to believe that you don’t think this class is riddled with bugs and half-finished concepts.
Yes, there are lots of things lacking … and it would have been STUPID for Anet to pile on more of those lacking things while some other things were wildly OPed. If none of you have noticed, this is how the works, and not just in GW2. The OPed stuff gets the nerfs first, then whatever needed to boost the rest, IF needed. And I don’t fault Anet for letting the players gain some experiences with the current version before (if) they make those boosts, otherwise you’re going to get even MORE QQing clueless players on the forums.
Sorry, you must be new here.
How long did it take to fix simple Mesmer bugs? 3 years was it?
How long did it take for Necro to get a proper overhaul? 3 years was it?
How long will it take for Revenant to get a proper overhaul? 3 years too?I’m not new and I did said it takes a long time for these things to be worked out. I’m not defending that; it’s just how it works. Deal with it.
The fact is that it’s NORMAL that some bugs take a long time to get fixed; in fact some NEVER get fixed in MMO’s; including GW2. And I’m the new one here?
Yes, you are.
This is normal for Anet. That’s why we want change and that’s why we complain. It’s literally the only thing we can do to hopefully get them to change or fix something.
Do you really think it’s okay to wait years for basic issues to be fixed? After tons of people paid $50+ for this expansion that includes a half-functional class?
There’s no reason to defend Anet, or any company, on this. There are issues. People WILL complain until they get fixed.
Wow, you really just want to ignore issues just because.
Literally nothing you said changes the fact that we’re being forced into Glint for a permanent increase in speed (worse actually, because you need to keep the facet active and stay in Glint for a bit to even get a decent amount of Swiftness)
Every other class has multiple options.
Necromancer is just one example of a class and Warhorn swiftness is NOT an issue outside of PvE and in some areas of WvW.
Every other class has multiple options, but we don’t. There’s nothing else to argue. Forcing a single legend is BAD. Forcing an Elite for basic features is BAD.I’m not ignoring it “just because”, I said it’s a non-issue because solutions already exist. Two of them, and yet you keep ignoring anything i say about shiro.
I’ll say it again for you. You can choose. Run glint, or spam shiro abilities. Take your pick. Both are already better than any movespeed signet or trait.
The fact of the matter is that here is a class, with access to perma swiftness with a single button press, ~50% superspeed uptime, a targeted 1200 teleport on a five second cd, and a leap on two weapons (although one does put you in combat). That is already more mobility/speed that any other class except thief. It really doesn’t need any more.
Shiro abilities? IO, unless you abuse that legend swapping trick, isn’t infinite and drains all your energy fast. Riposting Shadows is also expensive. Phase Traversal only works if there are enemies to teleport towards and in certain areas, that’s almost guaranteed to put you in combat.
So that only leaves you with Herald + Glint. That’s awful just because of how the Revenant works.
The mobility we have is almost strictly for getting INTO combat.
We want movement speed OUTSIDE of it.
The only real option is Glint. Shiro simply doesn’t do enough. It’s essentially 50% up-time on Swiftness. That forces you to take Glint to not be a turtle.
If you want to argue semantics, then fine. We have “options”, but both are bad.
One of them doesn’t even give us a permanent speed boost and the other forces a set of 5 utilities + a trait line.
It makes zero sense to argue against having a +25% movement speed trait. We have a need for it and we have the room for it too. I’ll say it again: Revenant has good IN-COMBAT mobility, but really bad options OUTSIDE of combat. This is BAD for open world traveling. It means we don’t even have BASIC class features. Almost every other class ALSO has access to permanent Swiftness (I have trouble thinking of one that doesn’t actually), but they don’t need to sacrifice all their utilities to do so. It’s either an off-hand, a single utility slot, a single trait, or at worst, a trait + weapon/utility.
However, Revenant’s only real option is a trait line + 5 utility slots! (just disregard Shiro, really. Superspeed is just a fancier Swiftness and you only have 50% uptime at best)
This is a problem that is going to become even worse later on when the next Elite spec gets released. Unless it has its own source of perma-Swiftness, we’re going to either be as slow as old Necro or still forced into Glint for it.
EDIT: Locust Signet isn’t trash at all, even in PvE. It’s used for the speed boost there and pretty much NOTHING else. That’s its only real use and I used it a ton and I’m sure many other Necros did too.
Now, in instanced content (aka Raids), yea, it’s kinda useless, but you don’t really need speed boosts in small arenas.
In WvW, the Signet can be used for multiple things and isn’t useless in the slightest unless you’re doing big zerg fights. For running around though, it’s invaluable.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Can you stop already? Strafing in melee. You have a revenant auto-attack to worry about.
You’re Staff. Why are you in melee range?
Staff is melee range. Have you seen a Gust landing from range or a Shockwave, or any auto-attacks?
I’ve seen them land, yes. Gust is broken, but at least you can sorta aim it.
Precision Strike literally targets whatever it wants.
Also, Staff has much more going for it than just those few broken skills. Revenant Sword has three(!) buggy, half-functional skills, and a nerfed auto-attack. The only thing it has going for it is damage and an evade that fails often.Now, is Staff melee range? No, of course not. You can zone the Revenant with it and make them run through a bunch of garbage.
It’s almost like you don’t even want to try anymore.Super defense coming from a revenant player which is basically saying “Rev is fine”
sigh
Fine. Just die to every Revenant. I really don’t care.
I’m just baffled that people complain about the most basic things and then they act like their class has no options against it.
Sword 2 has really clear weaknesses, but if you choose to completely ignore them, then what to do expect?Oh, and the person who said that Revenant is fine was actually Roy :^)
Ever since Beta, I’ve been saying it’s not fine and mentioning things that are too strong and things that are too weak. Of course, I don’t really affect any of the changes. Anet just kinda does whatever it wants.EDIT @ Alekt: So, you have soft-CC (one of them being completely unavoidable for the Revenant), you have hard-CC he also can’t really avoid, you can block his path, you can just deal damage, you out-range him, and you still haven’t considered utilities or traits.
Wanna go further? Staff isn’t even meant to 1v1 and it still has good options against Revenant Sword. Now either counter-play like other classes or sit there and get killed by Precision Strike.Sure. Let’s go to utilities. I have a utility blocking 3 attacks on a 75 seconds cooldown. I have no choice to use it because of thieves pressure amongst others. I have FGS on a 180 seconds cooldown. The point of the thread had absolutely nothing to do with 1v1, and if it did: so little.
I suppose you’re going to talk to me about energy management next. You are full of kitten.
Sure, whatever. Go get crushed by Revenants, Thieves, and whatever else comes after the next patch.
Just don’t tell me I’m full of kitten when you quite obviously gloss over all your options to try to prove a point.
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Can you stop already? Strafing in melee. You have a revenant auto-attack to worry about.
You’re Staff. Why are you in melee range?
Staff is melee range. Have you seen a Gust landing from range or a Shockwave, or any auto-attacks?
I’ve seen them land, yes. Gust is broken, but at least you can sorta aim it.
Precision Strike literally targets whatever it wants.
Also, Staff has much more going for it than just those few broken skills. Revenant Sword has three(!) buggy, half-functional skills, and a nerfed auto-attack. The only thing it has going for it is damage and an evade that fails often.Now, is Staff melee range? No, of course not. You can zone the Revenant with it and make them run through a bunch of garbage.
It’s almost like you don’t even want to try anymore.Super defense coming from a revenant player which is basically saying “Rev is fine”
sigh
Fine. Just die to every Revenant. I really don’t care.
I’m just baffled that people complain about the most basic things and then they act like their class has no options against it.
Sword 2 has really clear weaknesses, but if you choose to completely ignore them, then what to do expect?
Oh, and the person who said that Revenant is fine was actually Roy :^)
Ever since Beta, I’ve been saying it’s not fine and mentioning things that are too strong and things that are too weak. Of course, I don’t really affect any of the changes. Anet just kinda does whatever it wants.
EDIT @ Alekt: So, you have soft-CC (one of them being completely unavoidable for the Revenant), you have hard-CC he also can’t really avoid, you can block his path, you can just deal damage, you out-range him, and you still haven’t considered utilities or traits.
Wanna go further? Staff isn’t even meant to 1v1 and it still has good options against Revenant Sword. Now either counter-play like other classes or sit there and get killed by Precision Strike.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Can you stop already? Strafing in melee. You have a revenant auto-attack to worry about.
You’re Staff. Why are you in melee range?
Staff is melee range. Have you seen a Gust landing from range or a Shockwave, or any auto-attacks?
I’ve seen them land, yes. Gust is broken, but at least you can sorta aim it.
Precision Strike literally targets whatever it wants.
Also, Staff has much more going for it than just those few broken skills. Revenant Sword has three(!) buggy, half-functional skills, and a nerfed auto-attack. The only thing it has going for it is damage and an evade that fails often.
Now, is Staff melee range? No, of course not. You can zone the Revenant with it and make them run through a bunch of garbage.
It’s almost like you don’t even want to try anymore.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Can you stop already? Strafing in melee. You have a revenant auto-attack to worry about.
You’re Staff. Why are you in melee range?
To be fair, you can’t really run from a rev.
Uh, use soft-CC? Ele has a decent amount and Revenant doesn’t have any cleanses anyway.
You can use hard-CC too. The stability got nerfed and the best Stun Break is expensive on Energy. Assuming they Retribution. If they go full damage, they wont even have any Stability.
You can also just run around; they don’t have as many spammable gap closers like Thief. At most, Phase Traversal (expensive), Axe 4 (it’s not hard to spot), and Unrelenting Assault (tons of ways to make it fail and now you can fully dodge it).
Yes, there are lots of things lacking … and it would have been STUPID for Anet to pile on more of those lacking things while some other things were wildly OPed. If none of you have noticed, this is how the works, and not just in GW2. The OPed stuff gets the nerfs first, then whatever needed to boost the rest, IF needed. And I don’t fault Anet for letting the players gain some experiences with the current version before (if) they make those boosts, otherwise you’re going to get even MORE QQing clueless players on the forums.
Sorry, you must be new here.
How long did it take to fix simple Mesmer bugs? 3 years was it?
How long did it take for Necro to get a proper overhaul? 3 years was it?
How long will it take for Revenant to get a proper overhaul? 3 years too?
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Can you stop already? Strafing in melee. You have a revenant auto-attack to worry about.
You’re Staff. Why are you in melee range?
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
Precision Strike is 5 seconds cooldown.
A and D have 0 second cooldown.
Revenants are dealing 7k crits with precision strike
Press 3 on Earth Staff, 4 on Focus, use Earth Shout, or just walk back and forth/jump around. Better yet, just fight near boxes or houses.
I can guarantee you that you wont be hit for 7k ever again (until it gets fixed and/or nerfed because people are crying over a non-functional skill that shoots everywhere other than the target).
On-Topic: Yes, it sucks. That’s why I swapped to a class that has actual offensive capabilities.
no. I don’t think you get the concept of a NERF, CoR was too strong for its cooldown, so the cooldown was upped. What would be the point of the nerf if you are to buff everything else, which quite frankly doesn’t need any.
Hammer 3-5 are pretty mediocre, so yea, I think it should get buffed somewhat because all hammer had was CoR spam.
The only complaint revenants should be making is that Jalis and Ventari were never buffed.
I would argue that mallyx needs buffs too now, considering the fact that their counters were buffed immensely and they got nerfed quite a bit too. For example for the previous output of boon removal/corrupt demonic defiance at a 5 sec cooldown was OK now it clearly isn’t.
That, I will admit as well. But revenants are far from destroyed.
Yea, but saying we should only complain about Jalis and Ventari is silly.
We have a ton of bugs and issues littered through out the entire class.
Sword 2,3,5 are all buggy and 5 in particular is mostly useless.
Sword 4’s follow-up is worthless.
Hammer 2 being useless if there’s more than one Revenant is a big issue, along with all the terrain bugs that Hammer 2,3, and 5 all have.
Hammer in-general being mediocre and awful at kiting is an issue.
Shield being just for healing is an issue.
Mallyx and the Corruption line both have to be changed to accommodate his “overhaul”. Relies way too much on Resistance, and now it’s going to be a big problem any time a necromancer looks in your general direction. Before, you could sorta play around it with Facet of Nature, but now I don’t see it happening.
The over-reliance on Herald is an issue, albeit not unique to Revenant.
Enhanced Bulwark being untouched, but Unwavering Avoidance being nerfed is an issue (the former’s only real use is with the latter!).
Underwater Revenant is unfinished (even excluding Glint, UW Mallyx still has the old Unyielding Anguish!).
Etc.
Yes, Revenant isn’t dead, but getting nerfed so much while NONE of the issues are fixed (actually, they fixed Staff 4…which wasn’t broken in Beta…so I don’t think that counts as a “fixed issue” when it broke afterwards) is concerning.
Specific trait line, yes, but the legend you can easily hotswap. And cut the “entire set of utilities” rubbish, because you know as well as I do that on legend change all utilities change at the same time, with a single button press, ignoring their cooldown. Which is not worse than other classes, it’s actually better. If any other class hotswaps utilities for swiftness, they need to wait for each of those utilities to cooldown, and for them to be off cd before they are put into combat. Hotswapping from glint requires two clicks, nothing more.
There is no problem. You do have a choice. You can run glint, or you can run shiro and spam movement abilities, or you can run at an unboosted speed. The op clearly doesn’t like the second option, so the obvious solution is to simply take something that already exists, and use that.
As for necro, yes, it has a few different options. But signet of the locust is trash and is basically just a waste, the trait requires you to trait for it (same as glint) AND run a dagger/be in deathshroud, one can’t be hotswapped at all, and one is a finite resource if you are just running from point a to b, and all of these are worse than a glint revenant. The only way for a necro to keep up is to have warhorn (which will put you in combat half the time), specifically traited for warhorn, and running spectral walk, which has a 60s cd you have to swap out if you happen to get in a fight. As someone who has spent a great deal of time on both classes, revenant is better off by a mile. I’d rather have one good option, and one solid option, than one good-but-irritating-to-use option and a bunch of bad options.
Wow, you really just want to ignore issues just because.
Literally nothing you said changes the fact that we’re being forced into Glint for a permanent increase in speed (worse actually, because you need to keep the facet active and stay in Glint for a bit to even get a decent amount of Swiftness)
Every other class has multiple options.
Necromancer is just one example of a class and Warhorn swiftness is NOT an issue outside of PvE and in some areas of WvW.
Every other class has multiple options, but we don’t. There’s nothing else to argue. Forcing a single legend is BAD. Forcing an Elite for basic features is BAD.
Like I said, if that was the whole point, Revs would have become more like a Theif initiative management system. If that was the case, I suspect they would be even HARDER to balance than the energy management system, based on how much Anet struggles with Thieves. Minimal CD’s are in a practical sense, non-existent CD’s. When I can set my Auto on Hammer to #2, THAT is a problem.
So recognize this; the smaller the CD’s, the more like Thieves Reves look. I get it, everything is a nerf until you can see three years down the road that nerf NEEDED to happen to get there.
Ugh, we have even more to “balance” us out than Thieves do since we share energy across weapon skills and utilities.
Hammer 2 had too short of a CD, yes, but then the rest of Hammer is pretty mediocre! How is that still like this? Why didn’t they try moving the power from Hammer 2 to the other skills? Why didn’t they try anything at all?
Also, minimal CDs is NOTHING like no cooldowns. Suddenly, Phase Traversal went from a somewhat reliable teleport to being affected by chill, able to be punished HARD by Mesmers (enjoy that 15s CD), and now when it fails, you also get a full CD and lost 20 energy.
Almost every Revenant would have preferred an energy increase rather than kitten CD for multiple reasons (which includes the fact that the CD removes the energy management from the skill; you can literally spam it off cooldown if you wanted and you would end up with a net GAIN of energy).
There’s nothing to excuse here. The class has been out for a while, we had multiple betas, and we’re still riddled with bugs and unfixed issues. I didn’t expect balance, I expected functionality.
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
- Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
- Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
- Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
- This one is quite shocking: because this one alone has basically made the Rev Glint useless.
- Note: Revenants is one of the top classes to apply multiple boons both to themselves & teammates.
- Note: Revenants greatest weakness is the lack of condi removal. In fact they are the worst class to remove condis.
- Balance patch: Giving a condi heavy class (Necro) the ability to convert boons in to conditions
- Balance patch: Nerfing the strongest and only useful heal Revenants have.
Additional nerfs that actually hurt revenant without taking the class into account. (Quickness, Sigil of Energy, rune of durability)
Trying not make assumptions, but it was a overnerf based on stats alone.
I personally do not hate the Revenant, but I do hate having put my heart and soul into several classes just to watch them turn into mush based on a communities QQ level.
As a result I quit GW2. I was curious what this patch would bring.
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
The whole point was to have minimal amount of CDs on utilities (sorta like a utility-initiative system) and to balance them around energy. Only a couple skills had any CDs at all, but that number has increased and now it feels like energy is more of an extra burden rather than a balancing factor.
Edit: they had 3 years worth to learn from, 3 beta weekends, and then several more patches (of which we barely got any fixes).
Revenant shouldn’t be this non-functional at this stage.
It’s basic logic.
Revenant needs to run a specific trait line + a specific legend (which means an entire set of utilities).
Necromancer can take either Signet of the Locust, a trait line, or trait line + Warhorn.
Almost every other class, if not all of them, have a trait that increases base speed by 25%, a Signet that also does that, or a trait + weapon/utility combo for perma-swiftness.
Do you not see the problem? There’s no choice. You HAVE to choose Herald, but that’s also not enough, you also NEED Glint, which is even worse than the other classes because Legends are ENTIRE sets of utilities.
Or you could just swap to glint, and have perma swiftness? swiftness alone is 33%, which is a greater increase than all the +25% that other classes have.
Unfortunately it forces Herald + Glint
Base Rev should have a +25% speed trait.
Don’t worry revs, you got a lot of stuff warriors could’ve used. Now, you’ll be sitting down there soon with them
At least warriors are still fun to play, which is something that revs never were (in my personal opinion, of course).
Ventari is fun IMO condi rev and auramancing tempest weren’t that’s why I didn’t play them.
Condi Rev used to be fun…
We also have no clense i thought this was why we had good damage output…but guess not
Kinda false, ventari has decent cleanse and then of course the Jalis heal, the problem with ventari is the dang tablet and its energy consumption seems too high for the abilities it has, and salvation of course just kinda sucks, one of the traits should give the tablet pulsing Condi cleanse I think And Jalis…well he only has his heal, plus you have staff but again, energy and cooldowns.
Don’t forget that Jalis’ heal cleanses AFTER healing, so it gets destroyed by Poison anyway.
It would be incorrect to classify the revenant as a Jack of all trades unless we have access to all legends in combat. Similarly to engi or ele.
While it is possible to (in theory) perform a large variety of roles they all require a lot of specialization and have tradeoffs.That’s what I mean. In preparation you can set the Rev to fill different roles with a good deal of ease and efficiency.
E.G. Vale Guard, I’ll have the typical Glint/Shiro for the encounter but swap over to Glint/Ventari or Jalis/Ventari for a more defensive stance in Orb consumption events following the boss fight. Then, it’s back to Glint/Shiro or Glint/Mallyx for the Ghost walls. At most I’m changing Legends and maybe one Spec. Or, the ever classical we engaged Blue Guardian, and our Mesmer/Necro is still zoning in. “One sec, let me hop out of battle and slot in Mallyx for the strip.”
Granted, I’ll agree Revs aren’t as versatile in battle when compared to Ele’s or Engi’s.
What you just described is something that a lot of classes can do.
Oh, you need Boon Strip? Well the Mesmer can just equip Sword, Necro can do a ton of stuff, Thief can do a few, etc.
Need some cleanses? Almost every class has some sort of AoE cleanse.
Need some healing? Again, most classes have something to help out.
Where it all matters is in battle, where the Revenant isn’t a Jack-of-all-Trades at all.
I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?
Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.
Thief
Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7kRevenant
Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!
I didnt bother reading more comments because it is an absolute joke to aruge with a class that can generate up to 10 secs quickness and has a kittenton of other skills which makes it completely useless to compare AAs with each other.
Apparently it’s not ridiculous or completely useless because a Thief, literally just pressing 1, will do the same or more damage as Revenant in the same gear that maximizes his damage via actual rotations and has a full set of Boons (I.E. max damage). Realistic? Well, no one was standing still on any auto-attacks, but they still saw it fit to nerf Revenant’s and dramatically buff the Thief’s and the Thief will still out-damage the Revenant with them in any semi-equal setting.
There are few reasons why they buffed Thiefs auto I may not agree with them but, here they are, they wanted thief to be extremely dangerous and mobile, also Rev AA was nerfed due to them having more support and sustain than Thieves, yes Thieves have higher mobility but they were not able to sit on points and keep fully engaged in the fight as Rev was, which a lot of people seem to misunderstand survivability /= sustain yes thieves can run away to survive but that’s most times in favor of the opponent.
The Revenant has no other high-damage options. Sword is the only real DPS weapon and since every other skill (including Utilities) costs Energy, the Auto-Attack needs to be pretty good. Then consider how weak Revenant is to Conditions and that they really don’t have many stun breaks.
Then consider that a Thief’s role isn’t really to sit on a point, but rather to be mobile, run around, and help around in fights. Thief has so much more mobility (both chasing and escaping; Revenants lack the latter and are nerfed in the former), doesn’t instantly lose to soft-CC spam if they get caught, have far more options in utility, have a ton of evades as well, can stealth, etc.
The whole escaping thing doesn’t even matter as much in Stronghold or WvW or when not sitting on a point (actually, imagine a Thief that could sit on a point really well combined with their ridiculous mobility; I don’t think that would be a great idea).
It literally makes no sense to nerf one class due to its strong autos and then buff another to the same (or higher) amount of damage when that class can move around so much more and has far better spike damage and control to begin with.
If they wanted to improve Thieves in PvE, they needed to give them some sort of unique ability/trait/utility to make them wanted.
If they wanted to improve Thieves in PvP, all they needed to do was nerf everything else (which they mostly did).
(edited by Malchior.5732)
I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?
Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.
Thief
Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7kRevenant
Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!
I didnt bother reading more comments because it is an absolute joke to aruge with a class that can generate up to 10 secs quickness and has a kittenton of other skills which makes it completely useless to compare AAs with each other.
Apparently it’s not ridiculous or completely useless because a Thief, literally just pressing 1, will do the same or more damage as Revenant in the same gear that maximizes his damage via actual rotations and has a full set of Boons (I.E. max damage). Realistic? Well, no one was standing still on any auto-attacks, but they still saw it fit to nerf Revenant’s and dramatically buff the Thief’s and the Thief will still out-damage the Revenant with them in any semi-equal setting.
If it’s PvE, I guess we’re a fancy boonbot, but we’re basically swapped roles with Thief. We’ll get actively nerfed in every patch like Necros and Rangers before HoT and devs will seal the deal by saying “Revs are in a good place,” condemning us to the same abyss that Guardian has been languishing in since launch.
On the PvP side, isn’t Mallyx/Glint still a decent combo for conditions? I used that build a few times with success before, but after the “balance” patch, I’m not sure about anything anymore.
Ignoring the design issues with Mallyx, you’ll flop to Necros and Thieves can wreck you pretty hard too on a Mallyx/X hybrid build.
sword AA missing or being reflectsed (a fix revs got asap but guards have had for 3+ years)
Funny you mention that, because that issue just got reintroduced with the Sword 2 “buffs”.
You either use it at range and miss frequently or use it in melee and it just targets random crap, bugs out, gets reflected, etc.
However, comparing Rev’s AA to Thief’s AA… Rev is MUCH more sustainable then a Thief. so it’s a ridiculous comparison to make.
So is Thief Dagger/Staff damage overtuned? Yes.
Should Thief damage be compared to Rev? No.You also have to consider that Thief:
1. Is much more mobile.They can chase really well and also escape really well, while Revenants are more committed to fights.
2. Has instant CC/Utility in the form of Steal which can close the gap, stun, steal boons (like Stab), etc.
3. Is not quite as susceptible to Conditions while a Revenant has pretty much no options unless they use Mallyx, which will get annihilated by Necros.
4. They can equip as much defense (Stun breaks, escapes, whatever) as they want while a Revenant kinda only has Riposting Shadows or Gaze of Darkness, of which, only the former actually gets you out of danger and helps keep you out.
I.E. Thief has options; Revenant has set kits with little choice.
5. Thieves actually have a lot more tools (some spammable) to stay on top of a target AND soft-CC them multiple times.So, despite being squishier during a fight, they’re also much more mobile, have more options, and have even more tools for sticking to a target while using soft-CC. On top of that, they now deal more AA damage, which shouldn’t be underestimated by any means. Yea, you wont have a Thief just casually walking up to you and AAing you to death, but he will jump on you from far away, backstab you, then beat you to a pulp while you try to recover. This isn’t difficult to do as a Thief. Squishies and roamers will die.
So what you’re pointing out is that Thieves can leave a fight easier then a Rev can?
Great! Means you don’t got to worry about our admittedly OP AA spam.Yes, we got tools, but so do revs… The entire point I made is that while I agree with Thief’s Dagger and Staff AA being overtuned, a Thief simply cannot be compared to a Revenant.
I don’t know how you made that correlation. If anything, it means a Thief can escape, reset, and come back before you can properly recover and just wreck you with their autos just the same.
The entire point is that they CAN be compared because they’re trying to pull off similar roles: singling out a target and just wrecking them.
However, one of them got their auto nerfed by quite a decent amount (even though we use Energy on ALL skills except AA and we actually have poor Spike potential outside of lolHammer) and the other got their auto buffed by a ton (even though they only use their “Energy” on weapon skills and have ways to regain it faster and MUCH higher Spike damage).
It’s a pretty weird idea of balance on Anet’s part.
Ok, then let’s look at your higher armor, healthpool, boons such as Stability, Protection, Might, Quickness and all that other good stuff that you got solid access to.
And be fairabout the fact that Thief’s Condi Cleanse is not good at all (and we suffer more from condi since our healthpool is lower). We also don’t get as much healing, blocking and so on and so forth.They’re 2 different classes with different roles.
So no, you can’t exactly compare them that easily.
Anyhow I’ll just say it again because it doesn’t seem to sink in: Yes, I agree that Dagger and Staff AA’s are way overtuned. They could’ve done with half the buf they got (or even without it really) and I’d rather have seen they actually fixed core Thief issues instead. But hey, not going to say no to a buff.
Stab? Sure, but with no Vigor and that new ICD, and being forced into 2x trait lines to even make it worthwhile, and with Corruption Necros, it’s not quite an unstoppable force.
Doesn’t help that we have a small amount of Stun Breaks.
Might? You have that too.
Quickness? Only in Shiro and probably only used for when you’re going to sit there and Auto-Attack or attempt to not get bogged down by snares.
Protection? Only good amounts in Glint and only if they leave the facet activated, which is quite a good chunk of energy.
Condition cleasing on Thief isn’t good, but it’s a hell of a lot better than what Revenants have.
Blocks, higher health pool, heavy armor, and better healing is pretty much required if you’re going to have a class that can barely run away, has a giant weakness to conditions and has a glaring one against CC.
Thief obviously tries to make up the lack of those with MUCH better mobility, spammable Evades, Soft-CCs, high spike damage, Steal, etc.
The point is that: Yes, they can be compared. They’re different classes and behave differently, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re both trying to jump on a target and trying to wreck it and that their Auto-attacks contribute a lot to that, especially the Revenant’s. Speaking mostly Power Rev, of course.
The problem comes from Anet nerfing one class’ auto-attacks, but then buffing another class’ dramatically, one that has better mobility, can reset better, etc.
It makes no sense.
Thieves also have an advantage in that their burst isn’t mitigated by the mere presence of other targets.
That is a really weird design choice to me. Sword is meant to be the single target burst weapon, but both it’s damage spike attacks will divide that damage across multiple targets if they are too close.
How is that weird ? You’re punished for using it in fights including more than one target, that’s totally fitting the design of making it an assassination weapon.
That wouldn’t be so bad if the weapon could actually separate players, but it can’t!
Thief can jump into a crowd and spike someone down. It might not always be a good idea, but they can do it at full strength, regardless of fighting a Ranger, Mesmer, Minion Mancer, 2v2, 1v2, 3v3, etc.
Rev (Herald, in fact) wasn’t designed to be nice in 1 vs1. Herald is a boon buffer for his team. I don’t think Thief can do the same thing, probably legit if thief does better damage in 1vs1.
lolwat
Revenant likes 1v1s, even more now, since it’s much worse in big team fights. Yea, Herald is good for a team, but that’s probably because base Revenant actually has really bad team support.
Also, Shiro and Sword and pretty much designed for “assassination” so it makes sense.
Thief wasn’t always bad at 1v1 either, but certain changes did make it worse there.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
However, comparing Rev’s AA to Thief’s AA… Rev is MUCH more sustainable then a Thief. so it’s a ridiculous comparison to make.
So is Thief Dagger/Staff damage overtuned? Yes.
Should Thief damage be compared to Rev? No.You also have to consider that Thief:
1. Is much more mobile.They can chase really well and also escape really well, while Revenants are more committed to fights.
2. Has instant CC/Utility in the form of Steal which can close the gap, stun, steal boons (like Stab), etc.
3. Is not quite as susceptible to Conditions while a Revenant has pretty much no options unless they use Mallyx, which will get annihilated by Necros.
4. They can equip as much defense (Stun breaks, escapes, whatever) as they want while a Revenant kinda only has Riposting Shadows or Gaze of Darkness, of which, only the former actually gets you out of danger and helps keep you out.
I.E. Thief has options; Revenant has set kits with little choice.
5. Thieves actually have a lot more tools (some spammable) to stay on top of a target AND soft-CC them multiple times.So, despite being squishier during a fight, they’re also much more mobile, have more options, and have even more tools for sticking to a target while using soft-CC. On top of that, they now deal more AA damage, which shouldn’t be underestimated by any means. Yea, you wont have a Thief just casually walking up to you and AAing you to death, but he will jump on you from far away, backstab you, then beat you to a pulp while you try to recover. This isn’t difficult to do as a Thief. Squishies and roamers will die.
So what you’re pointing out is that Thieves can leave a fight easier then a Rev can?
Great! Means you don’t got to worry about our admittedly OP AA spam.Yes, we got tools, but so do revs… The entire point I made is that while I agree with Thief’s Dagger and Staff AA being overtuned, a Thief simply cannot be compared to a Revenant.
I don’t know how you made that correlation. If anything, it means a Thief can escape, reset, and come back before you can properly recover and just wreck you with their autos just the same.
The entire point is that they CAN be compared because they’re trying to pull off similar roles: singling out a target and just wrecking them.
However, one of them got their auto nerfed by quite a decent amount (even though we use Energy on ALL skills except AA and we actually have poor Spike potential outside of lolHammer) and the other got their auto buffed by a ton (even though they only use their “Energy” on weapon skills and have ways to regain it faster and MUCH higher Spike damage).
It’s a pretty weird idea of balance on Anet’s part.
Probably reducing the radius to 300 , increasing projectile speed by 200% and prioritizing players should make it usable.
Make it single target, increase speed by 200%. If Sword is about singling out targets, then it shouldn’t even be AoE. Even then, Reflects will make you cry, but at least it’ll be somewhat usable.
The AoE effect is actually an weakness that punishes you for not singling out targets. That part is fine, imo.
I think that it’s the projectile hit box that needs to be a little bit bigger.
Oh ok, I’ll try to single out that guy in the crowd with my Sword 5 that barely helps and is melee range or I’ll try to separate that Ranger/Mesmer/Necro from their pet/illusions/minions.
Should be simple, right? Sword is SO good at singling out targets after all.Sword MH is good at damaging isolated targets, not isolating them. :P I haven’t used OH sword yet, still sticking to the shield. But now that the shield’s heal was nerfed, I might consider it…
Well, it’s like a ranged weapon with poor kiting skills (like Rev Hammer). If you can’t keep a target where you need it, then the weapon is bad.
So if Sword can’t isolate targets, why are Sword 2/3 only good at damaging isolated targets? It makes no sense and you depend too much on your opponents playing badly.
The sword nerf was uncalled for, oh well Necro here I come! (Jks Ill still play my rev, but necro now…. really? )
Uncalled for? What game are u playing? The consensus was that sword auto was doing too much dmg for an auto. Now it’s on par with most classes.
- Rev DPS is mostly in the Auto and nothing else (and it’s so high mostly because of the self-quickness/Jalis hammers/Embrace the Darkness).
- Most other classes’ top DPS is in a few skills and multiple classes actually have higher DPS than Rev, some with pretty simple rotations along with strong, consistent Autos themselves.
- Rev Autos nerfed (yes, Sword 2 was buffed, but the skill is barely functional and just targets whatever it wants, bugs out on everything, and sometimes misses for no reason)
Balance Achieved
Also, Thief Autos were buffed pretty dramatically, so how about those? Too strong?
I think it was Burtnik who tested it:
One Rev using Quickness Autos on Sword and a Thief auto-attacking with Dagger on a Golem and if I’m not mistaken, the Thief won.
But yes, nerf the Auto, because it’s an Auto. Not because it’s actually broken, but because it’s an Auto.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Probably reducing the radius to 300 , increasing projectile speed by 200% and prioritizing players should make it usable.
Make it single target, increase speed by 200%. If Sword is about singling out targets, then it shouldn’t even be AoE. Even then, Reflects will make you cry, but at least it’ll be somewhat usable.
The AoE effect is actually an weakness that punishes you for not singling out targets. That part is fine, imo.
I think that it’s the projectile hit box that needs to be a little bit bigger.
Oh ok, I’ll try to single out that guy in the crowd with my Sword 5 that barely helps and is melee range or I’ll try to separate that Ranger/Mesmer/Necro from their pet/illusions/minions.
Should be simple, right? Sword is SO good at singling out targets after all.
However, comparing Rev’s AA to Thief’s AA… Rev is MUCH more sustainable then a Thief. so it’s a ridiculous comparison to make.
So is Thief Dagger/Staff damage overtuned? Yes.
Should Thief damage be compared to Rev? No.
You also have to consider that Thief:
1. Is much more mobile.They can chase really well and also escape really well, while Revenants are more committed to fights.
2. Has instant CC/Utility in the form of Steal which can close the gap, stun, steal boons (like Stab), etc.
3. Is not quite as susceptible to Conditions while a Revenant has pretty much no options unless they use Mallyx, which will get annihilated by Necros.
4. They can equip as much defense (Stun breaks, escapes, whatever) as they want while a Revenant kinda only has Riposting Shadows or Gaze of Darkness, of which, only the former actually gets you out of danger and helps keep you out.
I.E. Thief has options; Revenant has set kits with little choice.
5. Thieves actually have a lot more tools (some spammable) to stay on top of a target AND soft-CC them multiple times.
So, despite being squishier during a fight, they’re also much more mobile, have more options, and have even more tools for sticking to a target while using soft-CC. On top of that, they now deal more AA damage, which shouldn’t be underestimated by any means. Yea, you wont have a Thief just casually walking up to you and AAing you to death, but he will jump on you from far away, backstab you, then beat you to a pulp while you try to recover. This isn’t difficult to do as a Thief. Squishies and roamers will die.
Probably reducing the radius to 300 , increasing projectile speed by 200% and prioritizing players should make it usable.
Make it single target, increase speed by 200%. If Sword is about singling out targets, then it shouldn’t even be AoE. Even then, Reflects will make you cry, but at least it’ll be somewhat usable.
Revenant, scrapper and druid were all as OP. But any nerf there? Nope.
lolwat
All Revenant got were nerfs.
Argue all you want that Sword 2 got buffed, but the reality is that the skill doesn’t even work properly and just does whatever it wants.
Funny thing to note about our Underwater skills: Unyielding Anguish still works like our old Mallyx skills in the Beta before they “all” got changed.
The alacrity change was a good one, as it did too much for the duration you could get. It is honestly MUCH easier to balance around alacrity that isn’t as powerful (although I don’t know if 50% reduction was right). The problem is that they didn’t also then change the balance of everything with alacrity to compensate.
Even more, they probably should have nerfed alacrity by 50%, and then nerfed EVERY elite spec by about as much to reverse the stupid amounts of power-creep ruining the game.
Tell them to not force Revenants into using half-functional skills too.
Sword 2 is even buggier than before and Hammer 2 doesn’t even work properly if there’s more than one Revenant.
Thieves can wreck the Shiro/Mallyx Revs pretty hard and can annoy Power Revs, but I wouldn’t say it’s a hard counter.
Condi Necros though, if they’re decent, I wouldn’t even bother fighting them.
As a Condi Reaper, pre-patch, not a single Revenant could survive against me after several weeks of play. Imagine that fight now.
So a broken class got more broken and ur kitten about it. Ok.
Fixed for accuracy.
So yea, I guess so.
“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.Sword #3 can also auto-cancel for several clumsy reasons, be dodged away, and deal no damage against multiple opponents. Did that make sword #3 a terrible skill?
My point is: I know sword #2 has flaws, but don’t judge it solely by its flaws. Stay near your target, just as you would when you are AAing. The perma chill and the 4-5k damage IS nice.
Actually, it makes Sword #3 a liability in a lot of cases and a good candidate for being turned into a single-target skill, albeit much weaker than before. Also, don’t forget that whoever you’re using it on can get you in a bad spot really quick if they’re smart, like dragging you into a really dangerous spot.
Was it terrible? No, but it was severely flawed since it scaled so poorly as the fights got bigger.
Sword 2 is half-functional. It’s a buggy, broken skill whose only merit is a very close-range burst, assuming you actually manage to stick to your target, land all 3 shots, and are running max damage (otherwise, it does really crappy damage; actually, even now, 4-5k at such close range isn’t great when I can hit pretty close to that or more with 1200 range skills that don’t bug out).
Yea, you can sorta use it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not awful at its job and that these changes were not very poorly done.
“Oh, lets make Sword better at singling out targets”
Then they proceed to NOT make Sword 5 better at its job, not fix any of Sword 2’s issues, nerf Sword AA and Sword 3, and now Sword 2-3 are not only buggy messes, but also get worse as you fight more targets.
You fighting a Ranger? Well, guess Sword 2/3 just lost a ton of their power.
EDIT: Some of you might not remember, but Revenant Sword Auto was changed during the Beta weekends because it used to use a projectile. It was changed because it would frequently bug out and was also an attack that was meant to be used a lot and could be reflected, making it a big liability and we got what we have now. A much better iteration.
However, now Anet wants us to use Sword 2, despite it being a skill that frequently bugs out and is also an attack that is meant to be used a lot and could be reflected, making it a big liability.
Anyone see a problem here?
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Nerfs could be fine, but we got 0 compensation.
See, this is a complete lie.
Either you think precision strike’s buffs make a difference or not, they ARE there. 100->300% damage buff and 2->4.5 chill duration are not small numbers to go by, even taking into account how avoidable this skill is at ranged.
You can say that sword was rebalanced, with power being taken to the strongest skills and being given to the weakest one.
if it was a meaningful change or not, that’s another question.
So we can conclude that Sword 2 is a BAD skill and was not changed appropriately to accommodate the changes.
How exactly does that count as compensation? Sword got much worse and the “buff” gives us a half-functional, buggy skill.
“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.
It’s like my car got stolen and got replaced with a pick-up truck with two tires. Like, what do you want me to do with this, exactly?
Most of the crying posts in the profession boards would probably be laughed at if they posted in, say, the pvp board.
Oh, the PvP board is even worse than the profession boards. Constant crying about literally anything. I even saw someone complaining about Revenant condition cleansing!
Then there’s the people who are really spiteful and just want classes trashed because they don’t like them in PvP. Is that correct?
funny how anyone in top tier SPVP or pro teams is saying they’re still very strong, yet the Lowly Rev Reroller FoTM Love are QQIng that they’re now bad..
Well it’s a good thing I’m not a Rev Reroller and Burtnik happens to be in Legendary division and also agrees that the changes were bad :^)
See, the changes were just very poorly thought out. Nerfs could be fine, but we got 0 compensation. Still HUGE issues on many skills, still GIANT issues with several Legends and traits, base Revenant is literally trash and the only thing we got were nerfs! It’s outrageous.
I get I’m intruding on your thread but what I’m talking about is true and Anet knows it as well. Sword and Hammer play were not the same quality or level of complexity/difficulty as what you can get from other more developed classes. That simply doesn’t bode well for a new class that Anet SHOULD have applied everything they learned from the other 8 classes in the last 3 years to develop.
That’s fine if they want to make the class more complex. Completely fine by me, but it’s VERY clear you just wanted nerfs, not really changes.
Anet made that very clear too, because this patch didn’t make the class more complex, it just made it much weaker overall and much more frustrating to play. Enjoy Sword 2.