Guild Wars 2

Marthkus.4615:

Azukas.1426:

Kastiel.1947:

@Azukas , if you can’t beat a Rev then learn to play kitten , don’t just go on forums and QQ. You could beat it before during S1, and after numerous nerfs you can deffinetly beat it now. Just for example, reapers and scrappers do great against revs. The class is in a strong position atm, but deffinetly not OP.
Like others have said the game should deffinetly not be balanced around team composition of pro league teams .. And as long as you can take advantage of the class mechanics , any class can fair quite well. Including mesmer.

I have a Rev….I mean seriously who didn’t have a lvl 80 rev the minute HoT released???

Fact remains is Rev is being stacked and over performing keeping classes on the sidelines. That needs to change. You can’t argue against this. This is fact.

Rev is replacing thief and war. Idk about war, but thief is a trash class that is bad and busted it has caused friends who mained those classes to leave the game and PvP was never their main thing.

Yea, Thief has caused a lot of people to ragequit since it dominated the roaming role so much before.
Oh, you’re talking about Rev.

Why is it taken over both?
Both Thief and Warrior have bad staying power in team fights (Thief just can’t handle the spam and Warrior has lackluster sustain right now), don’t stack well, and Thief in particular can’t buff the team much. Compare to Revenant, which does all of those things better. It’s just much better for team fights in Conquest and can defend points with Phase Traversal.

That being said, why would you leave if your main is bad in sPvP and you don’t even play a lot of sPvP?
Thief and Warrior are both (mostly) fine in PvE and WvW (admittedly I don’t know that much about WvW, but Thief/Warrior roamers have an entire playground). You can have fun there just fine and find groups.

Marthkus.4615:

Straight buffs and bug fixes. Dev note telling other classes to get gud.

We’re not Scrappers.

AirWick.1769:

Serval.6458:

Weakness is a 50% chance to do 50% damage per hit, that’s only a 25% reduction for regular hits and a variable amount more for crits.

Chill is only a problem because it’s suddenly possible to get such high uptime on it. If they nerfed the condition itself then it would only be useful for reapers.

Well Alacrity took a nerf from 66% skill recharge rate to 33%. At the same time limiting the chrono’s consistent self application of this boon. The uptime of this in consistent applications made it excessively useful before its nerf. I think Chill could use that kind of change too.

1. Alacrity is not a boon; can’t be affected by boon duration, but conversely can’t be stripped or corrupted.

2. Alacrity is unique to Chronomancers (I.E. only Chronos could ever really “counter” chill with a buff).

3. Nerfing Chill affects ALL classes that can apply Chill.

Better to change how much Chill can be applied rather than changing its effect and keeping the current applications.
However, Alacrity was nerfed because it’s just that powerful of a buff (with Chill being the only way to cancel its effect), not just to the Chronomancer, but to the entire team. Just its existence limits future design: gotta be careful because strong skills’ cooldowns could be lowered to ridiculously low numbers and spammed, creating a lot of problems (mostly in Raids).

That being said, they “should” rebalance the rest of the Chrono kit to compensate, but I think it’s actually mostly balanced as is. The Chronomancer line shouldn’t be mandatory and shouldn’t be offering more damage than base Mesmer; it should just allow for an altered playstyle that can focus on supporting team mates while sacrificing damage/survivability/mobility/etc. Other classes should be changed to be like that.

Manuhell.2759:

Malchior.5732:

Everything gets balanced with accordance with its potential. It doesn’t matter if it’s optional. If that option breaks something else, then there needs to be a change.

It does matter if it is optional – because there is a difference between something that’s always available, and something that isn’t.
Namely, it is fine for the former to dictate the balance of the whole class, but the latter should dictate only its own balance. Else you end up in a situation where something that should be optional ends up being forced as the only viable playstyle (since you’ve made everything else weak on purpose).

You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying at all or if you do, you have a really skewed view of balance.

EVERY option must ALWAYS be considered when balancing. You don’t consider Gear Shield by itself, but what Gear Shield does + the rest of Engineer’s abilities.
If all a class has is a 3 second Block on a low cooldown and nothing else, it’s not a problem, but if that class has a 3 second Block on a low cooldown, then an evade, another block, multiple passive defenses, stun breaks, and ways to deal with conditions along with high damage and no other resource to manage (Life Force, Initiative, Energy, etc.), then obviously it’s a whole different scenario.

I wont continue responding after this. It’s a simple concept: you don’t consider single things in a vacuum in this case.

Manuhell.2759:

Malchior.5732:

-cut-

Either Scrapper needs some shaves or they need to go with Kit/Core Spec nerfs and we all know which option is healthier in the end.

So the choice would be between forcing the use of kit by balancing everything else over them and thus making the engineer some elementalist knockoff without a real choice of utility skills (with a complete disregard with how everything else deemed optional gets balanced, i should add), or properly balancing kits by themselves at it should be?
I guess you’ve never read my walls of text about how kits should be nerfed, baseline engineer eventually changed (by giving it that second weapon slot, since people want for engineer weapons to be balanced like they had two anyway) and how the current kit playstyle would be rather better suited for an elite spec.

Everything gets balanced with accordance with its potential. It doesn’t matter if it’s optional. If that option breaks something else, then there needs to be a change.

And no, I don’t go reading massive walls of text about a class I don’t enjoy playing anymore or about gigantic mechanical changes.

Manuhell.2759:

Malchior.5732:

Yea, Elementalist tends to have much weaker skills than normal.

Malchior.5732:

Scrapper’s Hammer seems stronger than most regular weapons

You do realize those statements together prove exactly what i’m talking about?

Malchior.5732:

not even taking into account the added utility and defense of toolbelt skills

But as i said above, engineers aren’t the only ones having F-skills, while being the only one with such a drawback. So where do we set the line? How many toolbelt skills make a weapon? Especially considering that toolbelt skills gets balanced over their utility skills anyway (see elixir R, for example – a strong toolbelt with a mediocre utility skill).

Malchior.5732:

and kits that can be chained together.

Again, optional utilities. Can’t balance main weapons or mechanics over them. It would make as much sense as balancing warriors over them using banners and giving them lesser base stats to “compensate for it”, just to make an example. Obviously that makes no sense at all, and no one should be balanced like that.

Kits, being the way they are, need to be accounted for. They aren’t extra stats; they’re basically full weapons that can be equipped to any engineer build while Toolbelt skills are there to remedy the “lack” of Utility skills. Maybe having a single block isn’t a problem, but when that build can now have two blocks due to Tool Kit or suddenly more mobility or condition cleanses, there’s a potential issue there.

Don’t you see how that can cause a few problems?
If you go back to Ele, they technically have 4 weapons without even touching utilities. Anet “compensated” that by not giving them a real weapon swap and having weaker skills in-general.

Engineers don’t have weaker skills in-general (Hammer actually has over-tuned skills when compared to most weapons; this is nothing like the old Engi weapons) and they don’t have 4 weapons, but they start off with 15 skills and have a potential for 35 skills.

I realize that not all Engi builds run nearly that many, but you have to consider that potential. Yes, I’m saying that your skills need to balanced considering Kits; that’s more than logical. Using your Banner example, it’s more like giving Warriors a new weapon that spawns more Banners and now they can spawn like 10 of them. Maybe the weapon by itself isn’t a huge issue, but when taking the full Banner package, it’s really strong. Skills need to be balanced according to every possible thing they can do, not just by themselves and Scrapper’s Hammer (and Traits/Utilities) is no different.

Either Scrapper needs some shaves or they need to go with Kit/Core Spec nerfs and we all know which option is healthier in the end.

Manuhell.2759:

Malchior.5732:

You have to consider the Scrapper’s Kits too; they can provide good defense and utility as well, which combined with the Hammer, can be pretty strong.
Is there any other weapon that comes close to as much damage + survivability? Yes, I realize the others are ranged, but it should all be considered.

Kits are optional, though – they aren’t given by default like weapon sets or other class main mechanics are. They shouldn’t dictate the balance of the class as a whole, but just their own.
You could make such a comparison with the toolbelt instead. And given that the engineer isn’t the only one having F-skills (guardian gets three signet-like skills, for example) while still being the only one missing a second weapon set (albeit that’s not completely correct either, as elementalists miss a second one too, but gets the attunement system instead) i doubt that it would warrant its single weapon being balanced like any others, either.
We do have a similar example with elementalists, albeit in the opposite spectrum. Being warranted far more skills by default than any other class, those skills are balanced differently as well.

Yea, Elementalist tends to have much weaker skills than normal.
Scrapper’s Hammer seems stronger than most regular weapons, not even taking into account the added utility and defense of toolbelt skills and kits that can be chained together.

Manuhell.2759:

Exedore.6320:

Yashuoa.9527:

Scrapper damage coefficients arent a problem.
That is a misunderstanding that they are.

If you try to balance scrapper hammer against a DPS weapon, they’re about right. However, scrapper hammer is more about defense and utility compared to most weapons. Slanting it so heavily in that direction brings into question whether its damage should be the same as a weapon which doesn’t offer that many extras over damage.

Reducing damage should be part of the trade-space just as much as reducing utility (increased cooldowns, etc) is.

You’re comparing the scrapper’s hammer with weapons used by classes that can use two such weapon sets by default, though. I don’t think such a comparison can even make sense. They’re likely to be balanced in a different way.

You have to consider the Scrapper’s Kits too; they can provide good defense and utility as well, which combined with the Hammer, can be pretty strong.
Is there any other weapon that comes close to as much damage + survivability? Yes, I realize the others are ranged, but it should all be considered.

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

1. We only tested a single Rev build.

what, you want to test power reaper too? just give up…your arguments have no standing…

Well, when you have a lack of reading comprehension…

Varezenem.2813:

You really shouldn’t attempt to balance something that you do not play…

So he shouldn’t try to balance anything except Ele then?

45 second CD for Jade Winds seems totally fair :^)
It’s not like it has a 50 energy cost and doesn’t have a Facet to off-set its big cooldown like Chaotic Release!

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Just nerf Riposting Shadows to restore 30 endurance and Revenant is more than back in line. I’ve been saying it since Pro League qualifiers.

Oh and give us other stunbreak. Would help.

I can agree with that. =p

No, because that would involve actually doing thoughtful changes.

xx swagmaster cyprus xx.7028:

Malchior.5732:

musu.9205:

Varezenem.2813:

musu.9205:

I think it’s actually a good thing :one class is good at certain role ,now if only anet could give ele more roles which will be better also make other classes(like war ,guard ,mes) good at something else with the clear weakness unlike rev

Rev is weak to condition damage and unlockable skills. In particular reapers.

I am aware of this , but current rev is really close to a class without CLEAR weakness ,and i didnt want to discuss much about rev balance since its not all i want to say .

BTW “weak to condition damage " on rev is acually “killable to condition damage”.Its not even countered by other classes condi builds .back then before cleanse ire ,war was weak to condition . this is an example of what is a clear weakness .

Its just power creep that anet has thrown condi applications and removals like candy .

Uh, Revenant has almost no removals at all. Your best answers are Infuse Light and Staff 4, with Riposting Shadows helping with Snares.

riposting shadows removes chill that’s huge dude
atm reapers are at the top of the condition game which makes chill the most dangerous condition around
removing chill on demand is actually super useful

I didn’t say it wasn’t….but at 30 energy per use and being so specific, it’s not really “amazing condi removal”. It’s primarily a stun break and an evasion skill.

musu.9205:

Varezenem.2813:

musu.9205:

I think it’s actually a good thing :one class is good at certain role ,now if only anet could give ele more roles which will be better also make other classes(like war ,guard ,mes) good at something else with the clear weakness unlike rev

Rev is weak to condition damage and unlockable skills. In particular reapers.

I am aware of this , but current rev is really close to a class without CLEAR weakness ,and i didnt want to discuss much about rev balance since its not all i want to say .

BTW “weak to condition damage " on rev is acually “killable to condition damage”.Its not even countered by other classes condi builds .back then before cleanse ire ,war was weak to condition . this is an example of what is a clear weakness .

Its just power creep that anet has thrown condi applications and removals like candy .

Uh, Revenant has almost no removals at all. Your best answers are Infuse Light and Staff 4, with Riposting Shadows helping with Snares.

Swagger.1459:

Azukas.1426:

In any of the semi final games. We saw 1 mesmer and 1 ranger.

7 Revs
4 Eles
4 Necro
3 Engi
1 Mesmer
1 Ranger

LOL funny

And this is exactly what happens when ongoing profession and “role” development is mostly ignored.

Players have been begging from beta for the devs to seriously work on professions, weapons, skills, traits, roles, certain combat mechanics… but it’s not a priority.

GW2 could be the top fantasy game for classes and combat, but that will never happen. I’ve never seen such potential wasted.

Well, it’s obvious that the elite specs are designed mostly for PvE and raids, which is fine. They’re awesome there and they feel great for the most part, but in PvP, it just can’t work like this (and Conquest isn’t the best mode ever, but that’s a discussion for another time).
I really think the game needs split balancing even if it’s confusing for new players. We don’t need giant mechanical changes, but certain cool downs and condition stacks can be increased or remain the same in PvE, but should be lowered in PvP.
Deathly Chill, for example: it could be even stronger in PvE and be fine, but it probably needs a shave in PvP.

Laxus.3062:

oh wow power reapers are like a free bag in wvw when you’re a revenant.

Especially if they’re trying to use GS, then they’re free bags for a lot of classes

Laxus.3062:

condi reapers not that hard too in wvw just keep kiting.

Depending on the terrain, Hammer can do a good chunk of damage on a Power Build before they can close in and then you can burst them down, but I have the most trouble when they’re full of LF (which is almost always in WvW) and they just condi bomb me; Condi Mesmers are pretty annoying too, especially with clones dividing the Sword 2/3 damage.

This is even worse when I don’t run Herald. It’s pretty difficult to do much sometimes without Shield, Glint or the Herald line.

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

It’s okay. It’s not like this game is truly competitive anyway. It’s a mess.

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

lighter.2708:

and you did also run meta necro build, you think other necro builds will even have any chance to do it?….

A build I copied from metabattle 5 minutes before we fought and that I barely ever used before (I used the Signet build or the classic Power build more often)?*

But sure, other stuff can work. You should check out the Necro forum instead though, because they’ll give you the most precise answers, since well, they primarily play Necro.

Look, I’ll give you exactly the same thing I said a while back: The Power Revenant’s best shot is to burst down the Reaper as best they can. It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say it’s unwinnable, but it’s definitely not easy. Especially not if you’re not running the meta power build. You argued it’s equal skill, but I can argue that if my Reaper really was equal to your Revenant, it would be a lot different; take a look at the fights where you got dangerously close to death.

EDIT: Just in case I’m not clear to you: I don’t think the current Reaper v Rev match-up is healthy design.

Also, who decided 20% is the amount of LF a Necro should start with? I’m genuinely curious.

You can start to argue when you actually find some one who has no more experience on necro then me on rev and manage to beat me with no effort

Assuming a random duel is actual proof, even though:
1. We only tested a single Rev build.
2. I’m not very good on Reaper; you’re assuming my Reaper equals your Rev.
I also never said the Necro doesn’t take skill to beat a Rev, but you’re just trying to say: “oh, hey, I beat this one guy, that means he’s 100% wrong; I’m better and 100% right.”
Tell me, does any other build stand a chance without trying to rush the Reaper down in a few seconds? In a more realistic setting, where the amount of LF isn’t limited, is the outcome the same? Does an equally as good Reaper become incredibly difficult (I was using an unfamiliar build against a class that I never formally duel like that)? But I’m guessing you won’t answer these.

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

I’d argue that sacrificing Cleansing Water is the cost of team support on the level of Tempest and that Condi Spam should be toned down anyway.

My point is more from a design standpoint. It’s not fun to play against and it’s not terribly intelligent on the Ele’s part either and most of it’s counter-play relies on team mates (which, to be honest, this game is handling poorly; there isn’t such a concrete set of roles like in other games).

lighter.2708:

and you did also run meta necro build, you think other necro builds will even have any chance to do it?….

A build I copied from metabattle 5 minutes before we fought and that I barely ever used before (I used the Signet build or the classic Power build more often)?*

But sure, other stuff can work. You should check out the Necro forum instead though, because they’ll give you the most precise answers, since well, they primarily play Necro.

Look, I’ll give you exactly the same thing I said a while back: The Power Revenant’s best shot is to burst down the Reaper as best they can. It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say it’s unwinnable, but it’s definitely not easy. Especially not if you’re not running the meta power build. You argued it’s equal skill, but I can argue that if my Reaper really was equal to your Revenant, it would be a lot different; take a look at the fights where you got dangerously close to death.

EDIT: Just in case I’m not clear to you: I don’t think the current Reaper v Rev match-up is healthy design.

Also, who decided 20% is the amount of LF a Necro should start with? I’m genuinely curious.

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

You could focus down the Reaper or you could get focused down.

that’s literally team play, since reaper is always the one to focus, reaper usually will position themselves and bait whoever gets out of position and have teammates punish him for it…it has nothing to do with the class but a team strategy

and no, it’s not what i want, it’s what you want, you said that reaper have all the tools to completely annihilate literally any Revenant build(which is obviously not true)…it seems like you know what you talking about, you know what are the tools..so use it and prove it..you act like there’s no way a rev will beat a necro..that’s also very untrue and im willing prove you wrong, but will you prove me wrong is another story

It doesn’t take a genius to tell that a Reaper has the tools to destroy a Revenant.
Just looking at what they can do:

- Far more condition application than a Revenant can handle: Check.
- Tons of Boon hate: Check.
- Unblockable attacks: Check.
- Doesn’t instantly blow up to a single Revenant: Check.
- Ranged Pressure: Check.

Can the Revenant cleanse the Chill? Yea, but in the end, it wont save you from the ridiculous pressure, especially at 30 energy per use.
Is team play important? Yea, but in the end, you cannot fight a Reaper 1v1 and expect to have even a decent chance at winning.
You cannot avoid all small skirmishes.

I’m not even saying you can’t play against a team with a Reaper; all I’m saying is that in a fight against one, the odds are heavily against you. Again, I really don’t understand how you can stand much of a chance in a small skirmish unless you have team support, or you happen to catch the Reaper when he/she is weak.

Also, if I say: “If you want”, that implies “yes, I will duel you”.

EDIT: So before Lighter comes boasting. Yes, I lost the duels. My only excuse is the same one as before: I’m not a great Reaper. I never claimed to be one.

Also, something I think you forgot is that we only tested against a “Meta” Power Herald. Do you think any other build could do it?

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

Morfedel.4165:

But guys, come on, I SAID I had had success with it personally, but that I also only ran it a few times. Can you chill with the insults and let me actually get back on feedback? Good god….

Reaper has all the tools necessary to completely annihilate literally any Revenant build. .

actually that’s not true….shiro is extremely good against reaper chill…

Oh yea, try that out and tell me how it works out for you :^)
30 Energy for an easily re-applied Chill is great!

I use Riposting Shadows to just run away from the Reaper.

you can duel my herald with your reaper..like seriously… i’ve yet to lose to a reaper unless i get outplayed..
also in 5v5, herald can easily jump a reaper and burst and disengage when he pops shroud then jump again when hes out of shroud with pretty low risk..unless it has ally to help..

If you want; I’m hardly an amazing Reaper, though.

5v5 isn’t exactly what I was considering when I said what I said. There’s a lot of variables there as you point out immediately after. You could focus down the Reaper or you could get focused down.

Thuggernaut.1250:

Diamond Skin alone wasn’t bad, but the problem came from Cele D/D and after the expansion launch, Tempest. The meta builds had so much access to healing that they could boost themselves back up over 90% at will. Of course, the nerf went way overboard, and now Reapers can spam condis with impunity.

Don’t forget that Tempests could also get a crazy amount of Protection that was also slightly stronger than normal, alongside the extra healing. Most condition builds had a lot trouble even if they ran some Power.

lighter.2708:

Malchior.5732:

Morfedel.4165:

But guys, come on, I SAID I had had success with it personally, but that I also only ran it a few times. Can you chill with the insults and let me actually get back on feedback? Good god….

Reaper has all the tools necessary to completely annihilate literally any Revenant build. .

actually that’s not true….shiro is extremely good against reaper chill…

Oh yea, try that out and tell me how it works out for you :^)
30 Energy for an easily re-applied Chill is great!

I use Riposting Shadows to just run away from the Reaper.

Morfedel.4165:

But guys, come on, I SAID I had had success with it personally, but that I also only ran it a few times. Can you chill with the insults and let me actually get back on feedback? Good god….

No one insulted you. Anecdotal evidence alone doesn’t mean much. It’s a known fact that Reaper has all the tools necessary to completely annihilate literally any Revenant build. Again, the only real chance you have is catching one while he/she’s weak or teaming up on one.

You know, I still think Rev is good (although riddled with issues), but I can’t help but think how crazy is it that if I’m against a Reaper, Shield is completely worthless.
Reaper Chill out-damages Crystal Hibernation’s healing per pulse and the constant Poison neuters all your healing potential even more.

If you post this in the PvP/General Discussion section, people will tell you that hammer is fine and is the best ranged weapon in the game.

Sword/X + Hammer for general PvE because you can’t always melee in Maguuma.

Sword/X + Staff for everything else.

Would use Mace/X, but the current Mallyx saddens me.

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Except unyielding anguish also torments them

Torment isn’t useful if you don’t have condi damage and it can be used against you by for example using consume conditions. If you are running a condi build then you really shouldn’t engage them they’ll out sustain you, use your resistance against you and use you condis against you.

If I have the trait that lets you generate resistance every time I use a demon stance, they cant keep corrupting that spammably.

Demonic defiance has a 5sec ICD, Scepter AA has none…

So you are basing all of this on the auto attack? I have a mace that torments and poisons during auto attacks. So why does my AA not count and his does?

There is a small difference of about 670 range, condi transfers, condi cleanses and 20k+ HP.

Unyielding anguish leaps 600, I can also condi transfer with pulsating pestilence, reduce condi damage by as much as 70%, wash off all condis with my jalis heal, spam resistance faster than he can corrupt it, convert up to 5 condis into boons because I’m using runes of lyssa, etc etc.

How long should we continue this?

Unyielding Anguish costs a whopping 30 energy, Pulsating Pestilence is bugged and only applies a single stack of Torment no matter what (either way, it’s an unreliable condi COPY, not a transfer), you wont reduce condi damage by that much for long regardless of build, you can only cleanse 3 conditions with Jalis at best, and you can’t spam Resistance faster than he can corrupt because he has multiple corruptions in Scepter Auto, Signets, or Corrupt Boon (10s CD when traited…) while you need to spend a minimum of 20 Energy for ~3 seconds of Resistance (it’s not worth casting EtD just for that because of its cast time). At best, you’ll get around ~8 seconds of Resistance by spending a whopping 35 Energy, which the Necro can Corrupt with multiple long-ranged skills with small tells; some of which are instant.

The Reaper WILL corrupt that Resistance easily and you cannot replace the Resistance that fast. Even if you do somehow get Resistance back instantly every time, 3 seconds of Resistance wont save you from the constant Condition pressure and the fact that they can send the conditions back at you pretty easily with multiple skills. He’ll use all your own conditions against you and your only real defense in this case is using your elite to maybe stall for an extra second or two.

Even assuming that you time everything perfectly for optimal Resistance up-time and you somehow manage to survive the onslaught, all you’re really doing is standing around waiting on Resistance. You have 0 counter-pressure and are not a threat in the slightest.

I’ve played Reaper a lot and even a half-decent one one can be an impossible nightmare for any Revenant. It’s just too much of an up-hill battle. The Revenant’s only hope is to catch the Reaper with his pants down or spike him down in a group. You don’t stand an iota of a chance in a 1v1.

Sigmoid.7082:

draxynnic.3719:

To be honest, it baffles me that they buffed necromancer as much as they did when reaper, particularly condi reaper, was already one of the most dangerous things around in PvP. Warriors and thieves did deserve some buffing (although I’m not sure the way thieves got their autoattacks buffed through the roof was the right call), but reapers were strong already, and now they’re even stronger.

Reaper actually only received one buff and a fairly pointless one at that. It was core necro abilities and skills that got all the other changes. Core necro wasnt too great and still isn’t but at least it’s not so bad anymore.
It was always a bad match up for rev though because of its innate lack of consistency clear and ease of generating bons. It just got worse.

Buffing Necro directly buffs Reaper :L

And yes, it went from an almost unwinnable match-up (Condi Rev could sorta try to use Facet of Nature boons to cover up their Resistance and hopefully kill the Reaper before it got too bad) to an actually unwinnable match-up (your only hope is to find them weak enough to burst down in a few seconds).

You don’t really need a specific build for general open-world PvE.
Either use anything you want or one of the dungeon/fractal/raid builds.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Hammerguard.9834:

The fact that a single skill is being compared to another single skill is embarrassing enough. Ele’s staff has 20 skills. Ignoring that just makes everything said irrelevant.

You might as well compare Ele staff 5 to Druid staff 5. It’s just as stupid.

Pet classes are balanced around the idea that pet deals another portion of the damage. Perhaps elementalists are balanced around the idea of multiple skills. Both cancels each other. Then, you have a Mender amulet against Marauder: 1050 more offensive stats, still losing.

You actually dealt more damage overall even though Staff Ele’s damage is mostly loaded into #2 and #5.

Honestly. Why are my dumb threads getting more attention than my serious ones? I am like 10%-20% serious here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Vitality-on-Earth-Shield-plays-against-you/first#post5991193

Because people care more about correcting misinformation and blatant propaganda than talking about something as small and out-of-our control as a small stat boost on a barely-ever-used utility.

At least we know that mender amulet druid beats the hell out of marauder staff ele on an auto-attack duel. Hey, that’s surprising. And it gets worse when you add Lava Font. The fireball just go anywhere but onto the target.

Yea, this will be very helpful with all those real auto-attack duels that happen all the time.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Hammerguard.9834:

The fact that a single skill is being compared to another single skill is embarrassing enough. Ele’s staff has 20 skills. Ignoring that just makes everything said irrelevant.

You might as well compare Ele staff 5 to Druid staff 5. It’s just as stupid.

Pet classes are balanced around the idea that pet deals another portion of the damage. Perhaps elementalists are balanced around the idea of multiple skills. Both cancels each other. Then, you have a Mender amulet against Marauder: 1050 more offensive stats, still losing.

You actually dealt more damage overall even though Staff Ele’s damage is mostly loaded into #2 and #5.

Honestly. Why are my dumb threads getting more attention than my serious ones? I am like 10%-20% serious here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Vitality-on-Earth-Shield-plays-against-you/first#post5991193

Because people care more about correcting misinformation and blatant propaganda than talking about something as small and out-of-our control as a small stat boost on a barely-ever-used utility.

It’s also impossible to tell if someone is serious or not through text unless they’re very clear with it. Since you constantly whine about several other classes, it’s hard to NOT take this seriously (you took the last thread pretty serious).

Alekt.5803:

Hammerguard.9834:

The fact that a single skill is being compared to another single skill is embarrassing enough. Ele’s staff has 20 skills. Ignoring that just makes everything said irrelevant.

You might as well compare Ele staff 5 to Druid staff 5. It’s just as stupid.

Pet classes are balanced around the idea that pet deals another portion of the damage. Perhaps elementalists are balanced around the idea of multiple skills. Both cancels each other. Then, you have a Mender amulet against Marauder: 1050 more offensive stats, still losing.

You actually dealt more damage overall even though Staff Ele’s damage is mostly loaded into #2 and #5.

TheBravery.9615:

what about this idea: Gain stability and absorb / convert into healing all magic/energy based projectiles (e.g. fireball, winds of chaos, lightning surge, solar beam, orb of light) and reflect physical based projectiles (most rifle skills, most bow skills, etc). Reduce cooldown and allow movement while channeling?

Kind of removes a lot of defense from Shield actually.
It’s a channeled Stab move which makes it far less useful for stopping CC, but then you could have a class with strong magic projectiles healing you for ridiculous amounts or being marginally annoying for classes with weak ones; reflecting wouldn’t be so bad.

That being said, Shield between classes can’t be directly compared.
Warrior and Revenant are pretty different.
The former doesn’t get potentially locked out of other skills just by using a skill and has far more defense against Conditions and CC; not to mention better escapes/out-of-combat mobility.

Zatoichi.1049:

Blind swordsman huh? Never heard of such a thing…

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlindWeaponmaster
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Handicappedkitten

For example:
http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Kenshi_Takahashi

It’s nothing new.

Try not using Glint for a bit; that re-sparked my interest if only because Glint/Herald gets really boring since it’s pretty limited in its combos, is really forgiving, mandatory in a lot of content, etc.

Yea, you’d mostly just be doing it for fun, but that’s better than forcing yourself through something you don’t like.

Alekt.5803:

Oh boy. I knew saying the word duel would have made you say that. Duels were simply popular during beta weekends to compare results. Even Abjured did that.

The usual mantra is that “1v1 means nothing” in gw2. But I am seriously questioning this fact when some of the classes currently on meta are so good 1v1, yet still the best for the team. And… the 1-3-1 splits forces those 1v1 too.

My points still stand. You’re obsessed with duels/sPvP and ignore almost everything else.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

If we’re going to talk about the non-viable state of Ventari Tablet. Yeah… The condition twist part of the Revenant Mallyx you talk about used to exist in beta weekends and it was pretty cancer in duel arenas. I remember.

That’s…not the point at all.
The point is that things we used to like about a class aren’t constant. Anet changes things or refuses to fix them and now they’re much different from the thing that originally brought us to the class in the first place.

You want a jack of all trades, but Ele doesn’t really do that (at least not in PvP).
I wanted a Condition Manipulating Mallyx and instead of them trying different things, it was just scrapped. The legend doesn’t even work well in any game mode; let me explain myself: the only reason Mallyx is ever used is for the +10% stat boost in PvE or because its biggest weaknesses are covered in PvP by Ret + Herald lines (which is a stupid interaction; no class should have Perma Stab) and it can then freely spam Resistance (which only gets good up-time because of FoN) and banish Enchantment.

Also, not everything is about duel arenas. Think about other modes and applications. You take duels way too seriously in a game that:
1. Isn’t balanced around 1v1.
2. Has had a bad record in balancing.
3. Shouldn’t really be taken that seriously for its PvP; it’s too flawed in that regard.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Jack of no trade; master of none.

“Demon stance focuses on conditions, with a twist. Let’s call it condition manipulation. Instead of dealing with conditions in the traditional sense—mostly by removing them— your approach to conditions as a revenant is all about accumulating them in order to empower your attacks. The more conditions you have, the stronger and more impactful your demon legend skills will become”

Things change :L

*yea, yea, we have Replenishing Despair and Bolstered Anguish, but you know what I mean

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Not support either. It does not work anymore.

It’s considered “support” because the offensive side is clunky and weak.

The weapon hasn’t really seen any updates in a long time.
It’s still usable as a backline weapon and in PvE to do almost anything.

Some weapons just wont be useful for everything. Even Ele needs to accept that.

Alekt.5803:

Eurantien.4632:

Alekt.5803:

I still had two instances of frost aura granting regen and fury and a flat heal of 800. Maybe it would have been slightly in the elementalist favor. But, we’re talking about a pet class here.

If someone asks me to add Lava Font, I have a video with it, and the ranger would side step them, which caused the fireball to miss. No damage were added as a result.

Fighting off point, aka WvW, should not be balanced around. If this game wishes to be “esport” balance should be around top tier, PvE should be balanced around NPC design and mechanics, and WvW shouldn’t be the focus of balance because of 50 v 50 isn’t something manageable to be balanced around. Therefore, fighting off point isn’t an arguable point of contention to determine what is OP and what is not. In a node fight lava font becomes severely more effective given your enemy is more likely to stay in a small radius around it. Also, if you are skilled you can do things like immob the druid into your lava font, knock them into a wall, or put it in front of their path as they round a corner of LoS so they take multiple ticks from the lava font. Given the counterplay of bristelback the only thing I could say you have an argument for is that unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

Lava Font has a crippling delay before landing the first tick. I think every elementalists agree that this delay needs to be removed. As for wall; it’s tricky with Rampage as One; I know it has this cooldown, but 13 sec of stability really becomes an issue when you rely on a static field to land combo. As for immobilize, it is limited to Shockwave, which has a nightmarish aftercast and poor hit-chance on a 30 seconds cooldown. No cripple on the weapon set, only a chill field on a 40 seconds cooldown.

Yes. On-point may be better, but I am certainly not standing on point, nor am I standing outside of the point because we both saw the same thing: I completely lose in the ranged fight (druid had no pet helping, and he did not even have a damaging amulet), and absolutely not win in the close-quarter.

It’s almost as-if Ele Staff isn’t a skirmishing weapon. Weird, huh?

Eurantien.4632:

unrelenting assault is too strong, not just smokescale.

I’ve felt this way sometimes, but then I get constantly reminded of its short-comings.

When you land every hit and it only does ~5k with a max damage build (Sword 3 is now a very noticeable DPS loss instead of a marginal gain), when someone is smart and they drag you into a death zone, or your opponent just happens to have other possible targets nearby which completely destroys all your damage and is totally out of your control, or it fails because they walked/dodged out of range, or it fails because there’s a wall, or on really rare occasions it gets you stuck in random objects

I really don’t care if Sword receives a damage nerf on Sword 2/3 as long as they become far less frustrating to use and they do something to not reduce the DPS in PvE (like that awesome split balancing). Having your damage spread out like that without having any control over it is incredibly frustrating and makes fighting more than one enemy really aggravating and I bet the 1v1 damage isn’t super fun to be a victim of.

Then again, a power Rev stands almost no chance against Condi builds, so it needs some sort of compensation. I realize a lot of people dislike the damage, but you really can’t sit around; Conditions (and CC if you’re not running Ret + Herald) are so ridiculously punishing that you need to kill quick or anyone that happens to have a lot of conditions (or high spike damage/boon strips when against Condi Rev) is a huge threat that can’t be sustained through.

Hmm, I’ve been roaming the past few days and haven’t really experienced this at all.
You sure it’s not a connection issue or maybe somehow a problem with the keyboard?

StickerHappy.8052:

Alekt.5803:

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

How many more indirect anti ranger threads am I going to see from you? It’s just starting to get really pathetic. You sound someone who is whining about every aspect.
Ele is still strong.

These are the threads you currently posted:

• Bristleback Damage
• Smokescale Damage
• Search And Rescue
• Protect Me (Why everything annoying is packaged with ranger)
• Now this

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long, while ranger after the spirit nerf has been in decline for a very long time, rangers waited patiently for that. You are good player dude but sorry to say you sound like a child whining.

@Topic

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

And again you are comparing a weapon that requires an elite trait line just to use it?

This is how he apparently likes to spend his time.
He complained endlessly about Revenant. Now the new hip thing to complain about is Druid and Reaper, so he’ll endlessly complain about it using flawed tests and comparisons (and sprinkle in some Rev hate because that’s always fun; Ele players in particular seem extra salty).

This is just as disingenuous as your last test…

All you’re proving is that Elementalist auto-attacks sucks :L

It’s been proven a while back that Druid Staff is actually good damage and has better DPS than the other Ranger weapons. Whether it’s good enough for killing in PvP is debatable.

Supreme.3164:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

Yes, ty for the thread!
Already reported this bug in game with screeenshot and video, the funny part is that it all started couple of weeks ago after a patch, the skill “cyclone” used to be indeed unblockable and given the CD and range that’s more than justified so this must be definitely a bug…huge one I’d say as cyclone is the only reliable interrupt on d/w and only way to interrupt revs using hibernation…at least it was.

I know people don’t like warhorn but the d/w build was excellent to kill revs especially thx to cyclone , with it you were able to interrupt revs at a crucial time when they were blocking to reset fight

This is a huge bug for warhorn

Gale is unblockable now and arguably much better than Warhorn, no?

Gale does no dmg and it’s single target where cyclone does upward of 1k dmg and aoe interrupt and still…how does your comment even fit here?
This is a bug report thread…not another “Warhorn vs Focus” ty

1. 1k Damage is pathetic for a skill with a 1 second cast time and a decently slow projectile.
2. Gale has 900 range and a shorter cast time.
3. Focus has much more defense than Warhorn, period. While the bug sucks, I can’t really see this as a huge bug. Seems to me like most people don’t even bother with Warhorn in PvP, regardless if Cyclone is unblockable or not.
4. This entire thread doesn’t even fit here. This is the PvP forum, not the bug report forum.

Supreme.3164:

Yes, ty for the thread!
Already reported this bug in game with screeenshot and video, the funny part is that it all started couple of weeks ago after a patch, the skill “cyclone” used to be indeed unblockable and given the CD and range that’s more than justified so this must be definitely a bug…huge one I’d say as cyclone is the only reliable interrupt on d/w and only way to interrupt revs using hibernation…at least it was.

I know people don’t like warhorn but the d/w build was excellent to kill revs especially thx to cyclone , with it you were able to interrupt revs at a crucial time when they were blocking to reset fight

This is a huge bug for warhorn

Gale is unblockable now and arguably much better than Warhorn, no?

Alin.2468:

Like I said, something changed. Elementalist is no longer a concept like advertised on main website.

Main website information about Elementalist (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/) should be changed:

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack sustain and the ability to keep themselves alive while providing some healing support.”

Well, that’s true in sPvP, but in PvE and arguably WvW, they’re both versatile and can inflict massive damage in a single* attack.

*technically it’s multiple hits, but it’s just a single button press; Meteor Shower can hit like a truck and Ele has some of the highest DPS of the game and high support potential.

No, I’m not really arguing that Ele doesn’t have big issues. I’m just trying to point out that sPvP isn’t the only mode. Yea, it’s a shame that it has problems in that mode now, but the class isn’t nearly as crippled in the other modes.

Burtnik.5218:

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

Well, if you’re complaining about waiting, your suggestion encourages even more of it, but doesn’t encourage legend swapping at all :L

It works “better” on Thief because they have ways to regain it and it’s not shared between utilities.
Revenant shares it between more skills and doesn’t have abilities to regain it faster outside of swapping, which does bring in some choice: Do you wait 5 – 6 seconds to pull off that skill you want or do you swap now, but potentially have skills that are a bit less useful at the moment?