Guild Wars 2

Xillllix.3485:

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Revenant has the same range as an elementalist with hammer btw but they hit 2-3 times harder and have a heavy armor…

They have a much better Auto-Attack, #2 which definitely does need a bit of a reduction(although to be fair, you can strafe the kitten thing; shave it a bit or make it worse at range, but increase capabilities elsewhere), and a way to defend against projectiles.
The trade-off comes from being pretty bad at closer ranges and being completely awful at Control, unlike the Elementalist Staff.

You see, what I actually dislike is the blind hate. Blind hate that this thread is bound to cause (and undoubtedly IS a cause of the hate itself).
Does Revenant need changes? Of course. Not only are some things still too strong(or too weak), but they just don’t make sense design-wise! If you were to change at the very least hammer #2 and Enhanced Bulwark/Shield 5, you’d notice much bigger weaknesses in these builds.
Unfortunately, many want the class to be nuked from existence rather than tweaked(which is all it needs to fall in line).

I got hit by 17k Coalescence of Ruins in WvW multiple times, so I’m not sure I would call that blind hate… Nothing can justify a Press-1-button-to-win meta.

You can blame that on Cruel Repercussions.
It’s a trait that it quite overpunishing, but mostly only really good on Hammer #2 in WvW…

Xillllix.3485:

Revenant has the same range as an elementalist with hammer btw but they hit 2-3 times harder and have a heavy armor…

They have a much better Auto-Attack, #2 which definitely does need a bit of a reduction(although to be fair, you can strafe the kitten thing; shave it a bit or make it worse at range, but increase capabilities elsewhere), and a way to defend against projectiles.
The trade-off comes from being pretty bad at closer ranges and being completely awful at Control, unlike the Elementalist Staff, which, as you mentioned, has been subject to certain nerfs (and also Ele in-general has very bad Autos).

You see, what I actually dislike is the blind hate. Blind hate that this thread is bound to cause (and undoubtedly IS a cause of the hate itself).
Does Revenant need changes? Of course. Not only are some things still too strong(or too weak), but they just don’t make sense design-wise! If you were to change at the very least hammer #2 and Enhanced Bulwark/Shield 5, you’d notice much bigger weaknesses in these builds.
Unfortunately, many want the class to be nuked from existence rather than tweaked(which is all it needs to fall in line).

SlayerSixx.5763:

Malchior.5732:

SlayerSixx.5763:

If she uses lava font, the rev can use unrelenting. Her point is that someone needs a buff/nerf and it isn’t the ele.

It’s a stupid comparison to begin with. Why don’t you stand in Wells too? Or take an Eviscerate? Or a Hundred Blades? Etc.

All this says is that a Revenant with almost all his damage traits and a Toughness amulet can kill one of the squishiest classes (which is also notorious for their bad auto-attacks; Fireball itself is VERY slow) with auto-attacks before they die to autos themselves.

So the traits alone are enough to account for over 1k power? If a marauder warrior just STOOD there, it’d at least be 10 minutes or more before the revenant killed him after proccing EP, so no one is arguing defense. The point is the ele, who has more than double the rev’s power, wasn’t able to beat the rev who had 2k less HP and averaged 500 DPH. She also isn’t basing an entire argument around it. She said it started as a joke, but it seems to have brought up yet another point against rev.

I brought up unrelenting because you brought up lava font. That’s all.

The traits account for a 37% damage increase (20% when the Ele is below 50% and Vulnerability not considered)) and a Life Siphon. Along with that, the Rev is running Retribution and a trait which provides a 50% damage REDUCTION for 5 seconds. (along with a 10% damage reduction when below 75% health)

Also, the Revenant would be eating about 2 full Lava Fonts every 12 seconds (when Unrelenting Assault would be up – a marginal DPS increase and sometimes a DPS loss -).

Hint: Settler has 0 Power stat, Thats 1050 difference in power. Which is a lot. Common sense seems to be a lost art these days.

Yet it’s not just about Power is it? The Revenant has a lot of advantages set-up in this scenario, in his natural habitat: Melee.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

Didn’t help your ele when versed in stone proc’d.

Oh lord, I didn’t even notice this at first.

I see why you say it’s a joke now, Alekt.

It’s the closest one. Random blood or air procs were better on that one. There is one duel where I only down the revenant to 40%.

Maybe there are certain traits that make this a guaranteed loss for the Ele in such a scenario.

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

Didn’t help your ele when versed in stone proc’d.

Oh lord, I didn’t even notice this at first.

I see why you say it’s a joke now, Alekt.

It just started as a joke. How does stated auto-attacks do against unstated auto attack of Revenants. Just take it like the RoF burn stacking videos.

Yea, that “started” as a joke too and quickly turned into massive amounts of hatred towards the class and players alike. I’m also not blind to the amount of hate you and many others have directed to Revenants. Same scenario here: many Elementalists wanted actual functionality changes, everyone else screamed for nerfs. Took Anet forever to satisfy just one side.

SlayerSixx.5763:

If she uses lava font, the rev can use unrelenting. Her point is that someone needs a buff/nerf and it isn’t the ele.

It’s a stupid comparison to begin with (not to mention that eating 2 Lava Fonts in a span of 12 seconds should out-damage a single Unrelenting Assault – a marginal DPS increase or a DPS loss -). Why don’t you stand in Wells too? Or take an Eviscerate? Or a Hundred Blades? Etc.

All this says is that a Revenant with almost all his damage traits and a Toughness amulet can kill one of the squishiest classes (which is also notorious for their bad auto-attacks; Fireball itself is VERY slow) with auto-attacks before they die to autos themselves.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

So what’s the point of this? The Revenant had a bad amulet for Power damage but was still running the Devastation line (tons of damage increasing traits there) while using a high DPS weapon that hits 3 times for every Fireball you could cast.
I’m surprised you didn’t drop faster.

Take it the way you want. The video stays there.

And again, what’s the point? All you’re showing is that staying at melee range against a weapon that EXCELS at melee is a dumb idea as a Marauder Staff Ele.

*Yes, I know you’re saying Revenant’s Sword DPS is too high.
Yes, it is, but then again, if you had used Lava Fonts, the roles would be reversed quite quickly. Revenants have strong auto-attacks and thus prevent the issue Elementalists have had forever: weak auto-attacks that FORCE swapping constantly.

So what’s the point of this? The Revenant had a bad amulet for Power damage but was still running the Devastation line (tons of damage increasing traits there) while using a high DPS weapon that hits 3 times for every Fireball you could cast.
I’m surprised you didn’t drop faster.

butch.8136:

Band-aid fix without completely rekking balance mid-league: no more class stacking.

As a Revenant main, I’m actually scared of Anet’s band-aid fixes(because they wont prevent class stacking like you’re promoting; they’ll just destroy classes). Not because I don’t think certain things shouldn’t be nerfed, but I really want my higher-risk Mallyx gameplay back instead of this super safe Viper bunker garbage with so many design flaws and I fear that we’ll never get the needed design changes with this Viper build dominating.

-Give the Stability back to Jalis’ road(and make it faster), it makes no sense for Stab to be in the Herald line anyway as it forces Jalis/Retribution(Jalis’ Road was nerfed and then we were presented with Enhanced Bulwark…)
-The above change makes Mallyx more risky as he’ll lack the crazy Stability uptime that makes him safer from CC(also, Eye for an Eye doesn’t need to do this much stuff for kitten ICD), but with no self-conditions, the condi-transfer and Resistance doesn’t make much sense anymore and makes for a much safer Revenant than before; change it to a cleanse or something unless you plan to return Mallyx to his risky style. Either enforce the Condi hoarding or don’t(why does our heal and a few traits encourage condi hoarding, yet the scaling is so much worse than before?).
- Shield shouldn’t really be two healing skills. Change Shield 4 into a more offensive skill with no healing and while you’re at it make Ventari much better at his job; he’s the one that should be focused on Healing and supporting defensively after all.

I feel like, if any band-aid fix were to happen, at the very least only touch Enhanced Bulwark, Shield, and potentially Pain Absorption.
/end Rev change thoughts

I can’t say much for Chronomancers, but maybe they shouldn’t be this good at not being hit…

I think the closest you can get is the Phantom Hood, which is no longer in the gem store anyway.

Wish we could just use the Reaper hood…we’re already super edgy, might as well go all the way, right?

Hawken son of Z.1367:

Those who don’t think zerk reaper can’t keep up with zero rev, most likely don’t know the reaper dps rotation… Reaper GS hits for 7.5-10k with every hit on VG (on par with rev) and grave driggers hit for 23-27k.

Also… Its fact right now that <50% hp, reaper has best dps in the game right now, and in raids that is a massive advantage. Also, daredevil DPS is insane atm, but daredevil is selfish class compared to herald and reaper who also support. (herald more so)

Don’t listen to the rev players who don’t play other classes…. They don’t know kitten

Important to point out:

- Reaper’s Greatsword Auto-Attack chain takes ~2.5s to complete, ignoring any potential aftercasts
- Revenant’s Sword Auto-Attack chain takes 1.75s to complete, again, ignoring any potential aftercasts

Yes, you can hit for around the same numbers PER hit, but undoubtedly the Revenant will hit MUCH more often.
Add in Quickness and the Revenant will come out ahead easily.

Now, Gravedigger takes 1.25s to complete, ignoring possible aftercast. Is it more than Revenant’s damage? Well, I’ll admit I don’t have that exact information here, but assuming you always do 23k damage per Gravedigger and the Revenant always does 9k per Auto-Attack hit(3 per 1.75s), then over a period of 10s, we’ll have:

- 184k damage from the Reaper (18.4k DPS)
- 154k damage from the Revenant (15.4k DPS)

This, of course, ignores potential aftercast in either(I’m almost certain Gravedigger has quite a bit), assumes the Revenant is ONLY Auto-Attacking in Sword(and you can realistically actually hit for higher than 9k) and not doing proper rotations with Shiro/Mallyx/Glint (using Sword 2 for additional damage inside the boss’ hitbox, Mallyx’s +10% stat boost, Shiro’s Quickness, Glint’s Elemental Blast, etc.). Also realize that the enemy you’re attacking MUST be below 50% health and we assume you always hit for 23k.

BUT, assuming you have a Chronomancer supplying both the Revenant and the Reaper with Quickness, then yes, I think the Reaper does end up winning the DPS race*.

*Technically, Epidemic allows Necromancers to out-DPS pretty much anything in the game (more specifically, the 2x Epidemic from 2 Necros), but this is very situational.

Someone with actual numbers could do a much better job than me, but I feel like you should know this.

azizul.8469:

not gonna happen. it will trivialize the Gift of Exploration.

Make it so you can choose if your character has account-bound WPs or not upon creation, but do not allow them to get the Gift of Exploration or map completion rewards if they choose to have them. Done.

Taldren.7523:

And I am saying it doesn’t matter at all. It doesn’t matter how you get the buffs if you always have those buffs anyway. Be it from a class full time on demand or from a proc chance of a rune that gives it for very short durations with long cooldowns.

But you wont have it all the time. You assume you’ll always have a Tempest next to you to supply that Protection constantly, as opposed to just applying it passively whenever you get into a fight. Yea, it wont be permanent, but with these runes doing so many things at the same time, it doesn’t matter.

MadRabbit.3179:

Malchior.5732:

A lot of “elites” have been here since the very beginning, myself included, although I don’t like being called an “elite”.

That being said, I don’t appreciate me paying $50 for content I can beat in mere moments. I like the challenge and I want more of it. I’m content with having a lot of game being casual-friendly, but isn’t it fair for more “hardcore” players to have something for them too?

A shame that his guild and others are having troubles, but just because you can’t do a VERY small portion of the game with your casual PvE guild doesn’t mean there’s a big issue here. Those people just need to find a separate group to raid with; that’s why you can be in several guilds at once. I have my guild that I play with in general PvE, I’m in a pvp guild, and I have a guild filled solely with raid buddies.

I still don’t quite get this. I don’t believe it has to be an all or nothing type of deal. I really want there to be challenging content for my own personal desires, but I think using a scaled difficulty model similar to fractals with some middle ground on exclusivity of rewards to encourage players to challenge themselves can satisfy both kinds of players.

It’s not like this is beyond the technical capability of Arenanet. The progression of fractals constantly adds new and challenging mechanics to increase difficulty and promote additional coordination. This type of progression allows for players to actually improve their skills and mechanic mastery without it being constant failure.

That content already exists, I mean, you just pointed it out. Fractals should be a gateway into Raids. Fractals are not functional right now and should be fixed, but either way, you’re going to hit that wall where you NEED high coordination and personal skill and people will want exclusive rewards; it’s only natural to reward people for completing difficult things.

@guild discussion: I don’t rep my “raid” guild at all. It’s merely a roster of players. Regardless, they all have zero excuse not to participate in guild chat because it’s literally ALWAYS available. You can always use any guild chat without ever having to rep any of them.
However, if you expect them to stop what they’re doing in 7+ minute fight to answer questions or help others all the time then I think the issue is with the guild itself. They help newer members out of kindness but if they’re busy, then expecting immediate answers and discussion constantly is more of an annoyance then. Yea, when it’s a small guild it can be rough, but with so many players not doing raids, why can’t the non-raiders in your guild cover them? Even one person helping newer members is enough.

sephiroth.4217:

Completely agree…

It’s horrible to pay $50 for content that you end up being excluded from because you’re too casual to start a crafting profession, and make a full ascended set.

What happened to exotics being highest entry level? what happened to grindless game catered for casuals, THE WHOLE REASON I BOUGHT THIS INSTEAD OF WoW.

As someone else pointed out: 3 Years of a fun game with a casual playerbase, can the elite playerbase keep the game going another 3 years?

A lot of “elites” have been here since the very beginning, myself included, although I don’t like being called an “elite”.

That being said, I don’t appreciate me paying $50 for content I can beat in mere moments. I like the challenge and I want more of it. I’m content with having a lot of game being casual-friendly, but isn’t it fair for more “hardcore” players to have something for them too?

A shame that his guild and others are having troubles, but just because you can’t do a VERY small portion of the game with your casual PvE guild doesn’t mean there’s a big issue here. Those people just need to find a separate group to raid with; that’s why you can be in several guilds at once. I have my guild that I play with in general PvE, I’m in a pvp guild, and I have a guild filled solely with raid buddies.

Rezzet.3614:

Malchior.5732:

smiling.9028:

Kam.4092:

Git Gud

EXACTLY the toxicity the OP was talking about, thank you for proving his point.

@OP Well said, 100% agree.

That “toxicity” is just that now you’re actually expected to have certain skills and to know the game well. It’s just good design to expect players to learn, adapt, and grow in skill instead of expecting them to be carried by large numbers.
Are certain players too mean? Yes, but that’s a generalization and depends entirely on the individuals. I try my best to teach anyone who is new to a raid encounter, but not everyone is quite as patient, especially after several hours.

if raids were truly all about skill it wouldnt had been designed as yet another dps race in the game as it is its not about skill but rather running specific Professions with specific builds

It’s about maintaining DPS while applying specific mechanics. That IS skill.

MadRabbit.3179:

Malchior.5732:

smiling.9028:

Kam.4092:

Git Gud

EXACTLY the toxicity the OP was talking about, thank you for proving his point.

@OP Well said, 100% agree.

The toxicity you guys all talk about is that certain skills are actually expected of you now instead of letting you be carried by all the good players.
I see that as good game design, when you expect players to learn, adapt, and grow in skill. Certain players are too mean, but that is just a generalization and depends entirely on the individuals.

So what do you feel would be lost if raid content used scaling difficulties that allowed players lacking in skill and mechanical mastery to still participate without hindering the progression of people who want to play at a higher level of difficulty?

We could even make a middle ground between inclusivity and exclusivity where the legendary armor was acquired in tiers, each tier requiring completing the content at a different difficulty level and each tier with an unique visual style that expressed your accomplishments.

We’d still have “casual” players complaining that they can’t get the most prestigious version of legendary armor. There is no easy fix here. It’s just opposing interests in the player base and they both must have content made for them and you need exclusive rewards for the “hardcore” players, otherwise theres no incentive for the extra effort other than just fun while the “casuals” profit immensely over them(raids are already a waste of time and money technically). Open world got slightly harder, but it still pretty easy to run around in(again, you’re just expected to learn and adapt here, although not by a large margin) while raids are for the more coordinated groups.

smiling.9028:

Kam.4092:

Git Gud

EXACTLY the toxicity the OP was talking about, thank you for proving his point.

@OP Well said, 100% agree.

That “toxicity” is just that now you’re actually expected to have certain skills and to know the game well. It’s just good design to expect players to learn, adapt, and grow in skill instead of expecting them to be carried by large numbers.
Are certain players too mean? Yes, but that’s a generalization and depends entirely on the individuals. I try my best to teach anyone who is new to a raid encounter, but not everyone is quite as patient, especially after several hours.

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

1. I didn’t stretch anything.
2. FoN + Envoy does not passively proc resistance and Protection while also supplying +20% boon duration and a bunch of stats. I have no idea where you’re going with this really. If anything, FoN + Envoy just makes it much worse.

Tempest procs AoE protection on just about everything the Tempest does.

This stupid little run does it for 1.9 seconds of Resistance with Facet and Envoy and 5.7 seconds with protection 25% of the time when hit with a 20s cooldown.

You are trying to say that if everyone stands in a little circle and all procs it together that you could have it up passively full time which is just ridiculous. If that isn’t a stretch (of reality) I don’t know what is.

AoE buff procs exist in the game already and classes like Tempest can actually do them full time buffs on demand. Trying to construed this rune as some sort of outlier is mind boggling silly.

You misread SO hard that it’s physically painful.

What I was saying was that there’s a HUGE difference between a passive rune proccing and a specific class using very specific skills with specific traits.

I think the real issue is Enhanced Bulwark which allows high uptime of Stability, covering Mallyx’s biggest weakness quite well. Combine this with Durability Runes and all of our active defenses and heals and you get quite an annoying spec. I think a change for Enhanced Bulwark(makes no sense without retribution or jalis anyway) to make it work(as in it no longer has anything to do with stab) with, say, Prot, and potentially change Shield 4 to do something else(why have two skills with such similar functions?) and I think a lot of complaints would stop while also making for a much healthier class.

I would also love Pain Absorption changes since the condi transfer it does no longer makes sense and the resistance is not needed since Mallyx no longer applies conditions to the player(before, it was necessary because you’d end up killing yourself otherwise, but now that Mallyx is really safe, it makes no sense, esp the Heal; make them cleanses or something).

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

1. I didn’t stretch anything.
2. FoN + Envoy does not passively proc resistance and Protection while also supplying +20% boon duration and a bunch of stats. I have no idea where you’re going with this really. If anything, FoN + Envoy just makes it much worse.

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

Xae Isareth.1364:

asher.1246:

Oh another sPVP post.

What about pve? mallyx sucks.

It is ‘good’ in PvE in the sense of it being a 10% DPS boost if you got quickness covered. So essentially, its as good as Shiro really.

The condi legend is better at power basically.

“After being trying to do the first boss for one hour or so, i’ve met the first toxic player. "

There’s your answer. I’ve done dungeons for years now, some fractals, and now raids and I’ve met maybe a handful of people like this. Fact is, if you’re turned off from the content because one type of person might exist in there, then you probably shouldn’t be playing a multiplayer game in the first place. Toxicity exists in every community.

Artaz.3819:

Potato Slayer.3107:

granted your resistance is not stripped.

You just reapply it and/or strip it if it was boon steal. That’s not a Mallyx counter as Resistance boon is basically spammed and you have a counter if the opponent (another Mallyx Rev) spams it themselves.

Hard to spam it with energy costs going from 20 – 35(Heal isn’t spammable and Elite isn’t worth spamming just because of the cast time).

Durability runes and Demonic Defiance help maintain it, but they’re just supplements.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

posthumecaver.6473:

I mean I don’t know with the level cleansing exists in this game, is it really that effective.

It can only dish Torment effectively and like burn guardian it does not have cover conditions.

And that is Torment if you foe is clever and will not move, it will do crap for damage and Revenant will be glass against power damage.

Sure, you can wreck people in hot joins but in competitive PVP?

Cover conditions = poison, chill, weakness, as well as constant pulsing condi, and low cool down burning.

We used to have poison, chill, weakness, blind, vuln, and cripple along with higher burst Torment and higher burst Confusion

Dusk.4708:

All good points w the stab spam n stuff but lets keep on point w mallyx guys i want to get this out in the open so we see some changes…(lol yea maybe in a few months mallyx will get a 2% increase in dmg cause why not.

Well, you have to discuss this because giving Mallyx a Stun Break along with the easy Stab that Revs can get access to now will only cause more issues.

Mercurias.1826:

This is hilarious. Two weeks ago there were threads all over crying about Mallyx being weak.

Mallyx counters the current Meta. That just means the Meta is going to shift. The sky isn’t falling, Chicken Little.

And I find it fascinating how very many of you all believe you know what’s going on inside the head of every developer, especially because a lot of what is said contradicts and no one will ever cite a source.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Roy-Feedback-about-out-Feedback/first#post5609485

I think this is what people are citing.

Burtnik.5218:

I rebember how everyone thought that enhanced bulwark is a trash trait and now its basically meta.. Till we dont get proper stunbreaks across the board and access to real stab ability (road go kitten yourself) they better stay away from my precious trait.

At one point im not sure if Mallyx should get stunbreak tho. People may scream that he has no counterplay. I wonder if there are any plans to rework him at all.

I always thought it was a dumb trait. Synergized very well with Retribution(and old Jalis Road…), but it’s GARBAGE without Retribution(2 entire lines just to make this work, ain’t that awesome…).
It should just be reworked which should also remove some of the Viper Rev’s hate and return some of its weaknesses.

Yes, he should, but they might want to do something about Retribution + Enhanced Bulwark + FoN first since people already hate the perma Stab that’s possible. Along with that Stun Break(which should definitely be Pain Absorption), they could just get rid of the silly Condi absorb. If we aren’t going to be encouraged to hoard conditions, why do we have a skill that pulls them all to you? Make it cleanse in an AoE and apply a much smaller amount of AoE Resistance that DOES NOT scale(this is the very same mechanic that was removed from Mallyx!) with the amount of condis you pull and reduce the cost a bit.

Potentially just make Enhanced Bulwark grant AoE Protection when you block/evade a skill on an ICD since right now it only synergizes with Retribution/Jalis as is(forcing another spec/legend) and the VERY few AoE Stability sources in this game.

I’m thinking that the issue the OP is having is because they changed the picture for the Herald Specialization. It’s no longer Glint, but rather the new Herald shoulder piece.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

Oh lord, don’t you think you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself?
What exactly does Mallyx do? Spam Resistance and strip boons. That’s all fine and dandy, but what does Shiro do? Amazing Stun Break that synergies with Retribution(+Herald), gives a condi class a 1200 range gap closer and allows you to hit through blocks, a strong AoE CC, and Quickness for stomping/çondi pressure/sword pressure, and super speed to escape hairy situation/getting in there.

It really looks like Shiro is handling the bulk of the situations while Mallyx is there for the Resistance spam and occasional boon stripping(i.e. more niche situations).

Lets also mention that Mallyx would not be anywhere near as good without Retribution + Herald + Durability Runes.
Don’t you see how flawed this legend is? No one was saying that he’s completely useless, but that’s he’s a complete mess design-wise and he suffers in many areas where he shouldn’t, by virtue of being re-designed to be so much safer and tame.

Until you stop trolling with your terrible theory crafting you’re never going to be taken seriously. You should probably start playing Mallyx.

If Shiro really is doing all the work, why isn’t Glint being taken for condi builds? Hmm?

I like how you call me the troll and then don’t try to counter any of my claims with anything logical.
Why isn’t Glint being taken? Simple: No Boon Stripping and can’t handle conditions as well. Helps that Unyielding Anguish can supplement some Torment as well while Glint has Burning for damage at best(which takes longer to take effect than UA).

Again, don’t you see how flawed Mallyx is design-wise? You never answer this. You just say we’re theory-crafting too much. That isn’t proving anything; you’re just making an opinion.

Synosius.9876:

be happy we dodged the first nerf bat!

We already got an Infuse Light, Phase Traversal, Herald GM trait and a Shield nerf.

Oh lord, don’t you think you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself?
What exactly does Mallyx do? Spam Resistance and strip boons. That’s all fine and dandy, but what does Shiro do? Amazing Stun Break that synergies with Retribution(+Herald), gives a condi class a 1200 range gap closer and allows you to hit through blocks, a strong AoE CC, and Quickness for stomping/çondi pressure/sword pressure, and super speed to escape hairy situation/getting in there.

It really looks like Shiro is handling the bulk of the situations while Mallyx is there for the Resistance spam and occasional boon stripping(i.e. more niche situations).

Lets also mention that Mallyx would not be anywhere near as good without Retribution + Herald + Durability Runes.
Don’t you see how flawed this legend is? No one was saying that he’s completely useless, but that’s he’s a complete mess design-wise and he suffers in many areas where he shouldn’t, by virtue of being re-designed to be so much safer and tame.

Nocta.5274:

Well, maybe don’t reduce it to 1 boon, but increase the energy cost atleast.

I honestly think the boons strips in the game are too either too good or useless, which makes it harder for arenanet to finally try to nerf the boon spams meta going initiated by D/D Ele before HoT.

There’s just too many spammable boons on everyone right now but I guess it’s another topic. But I strongly argue that Malyx is getting popularity because of the boon strip. The other advantages came later once people figured out the build itself.

This game needs MORE boon strips.
Everyone’s running around with tons of them and we need a way to deal with it.
Larcenous Strike needed a change because it was not only a somewhat spammable Evade and gap closer, but also STOLE boons, not just stripped them.
Although, that was from a long time ago; it probably wouldn’t even cause issues at 2 boon steals now.

While I agree that Banish Enchantment is actually one of the only things Mallyx is worth running for now, I really don’t agree that it’s too strong or needs nerfing. Increasing the energy cost is also silly. Mallyx is already plague by huge costs and you want to nerf the only thing he really has left aside from Resistance spam?(which shouldn’t exist anymore since he lost all his risky gameplay) I don’t see the problem with removing 4 boons and applying 6 Confusion for 40 Energy, for example. That’s a lot of energy; potentially leaving you with just your Mace skills for a few seconds and no utilities. Have to mention that it’s also on a single target(technically it can hit multiple people, but it needs to be in a straight line).

Nocta.5274:

Burtnik.5218:

Shadelang.3012:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Stability on Mallyx? Lmao this people are a joke

Oh comeon. Its obvious hes talking about the build by the same name. Its not hard to figure that out. Spend 20 seconds thinking about what he could mean before switching to ridicule mode.

The current meta revenant build is refered to often as the Malyx Revenant. As its the most common legend used. There are different variations of this build but all of them have malyx as a stable to it. Its just a name in this case. Hes not saying hte stab is COMING from the malyx line.

Meta is Shiro/Glint.

Glint / Shiro is actually fading away for the Malyx builds right now.
Malyx gets more boon strip than a signet necro, they have a NO CD 2 boons strip, and are highly effective at staying alive against conditions which is usually revenant’s weakness.

They have really good hybrid damage too.

The build is kind of a reaction to thief going out of the meta + Mesmers going bunkers builds, allowing Rev to play some kind of super powerful offence build with Viper Amulet without the threat of being bursted down by power roamers.

I think nerfing the boon strip utility to 1 per use ( like the Thief S/D 3 nerf ) and the highly probable thief buff will help solve this build out. They just get destroyed by Thief burst.

Well, the reason people are using Viper Mallyx/Shiro is because it’s a condi build with mobility and plenty of active(and passive) defenses. It can afford to go Viper to do good condi damage while still dealing decent direct damage because Sword is really strong.

Nerfing Banish Enchantment would be awful. Unlike Thief, it doesn’t act as a somewhat spammable defense at the same time(yes, Demonic Defiance exists; I wouldn’t say it’s as good as an evade) and it doesn’t affect every single one of their skills(Flanking + Larcenous Strike is 5 Initiative, which Thief can get back through multiple methods aside from just waiting, while Banish Enchantment costs 20 Energy and thus also affects the usability of everything else, not just utilities).

People are so quick to ask for nerfs and no, I don’t play Mallyx Rev. Not anymore anyway. His whole rework in BWE3 is a kitten mess. If it really does become an issue, though, then just rework Enhanced Bulwark. It’s the trait that makes Mallyx’s weakness much less prevalent, but also has very little synergy with the rest of the class. It basically forces you to run Retribution + Herald lines to do anything worthwhile because the Jalis Road sucks so bad..

Flumek.9043:

Rym.1469:

So you’re Reaper having problems with Revenant?

Ok…

Dirame.8521:

In Reply to Topic;

[Deadnant] Stab + Resist x Perma = Corrupt Boon sees you and wants you badly.

Here, Ceimash beat me to it and Nos also showed corruption reaper potentially countering mallyx rev. We will see but my 3 problems and predictions are:
-no other team than wakkey+5g+phanta will be able to babysit such a onetrick build just to
-“potentialy” kill a mallyx rev…As your both necros i wont list all RNG related to corupt boon
-if you play build wars, rev can do it better by just switching to regular power build and then its a free kill

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’ll wait.

My intent is to provide a clearer and simpler picture for the ones who smell rev is fishy but dont know where the smell is coming from, in the form of objective numbers.
I believe it is coming from every possible way – only aoe cleanse+heal and chain CC rooms are clear.

So its more of a relative represantation of how bad it is…I think im bad at designing new stuff, so I will only say that by my gut: A third of those crucial team roles/abilities need to be cut off.

Oh there is one specifically:
- Stability ON DODGE

Its just lame.
Passive and spammy.
With waay to high uptime.

If its meant as anti-CC and to reward (good) dodges, id rather give him the whole dodge back if he avoided a CC skill, instead of always giving 40-70% of the strongest boon in game.

I’d like to point out that the only reason a Herald is getting high Stab up-time is because of Enhanced Bulwark + Facet of Nature.
Maybe start there, since EB is already a weird trait since Herald doesn’t have any Stab whatsoever and the Revenant doesn’t actually have many ways to apply Stab either.

Also, for Resistance complaints, first off, it’s not permanent unless the Revenant always absorbs two conditions from 2 different team mates while having FoN active and he really can’t use anything else as it costs a whopping 35 energy. Secondly, it makes the Revenant extremely weak to Boon Strips/Corruptions (actually, every Revenant is extremely weak to this).

Aside from that, Mallyx as a whole needs an overhaul since he was so butchered in BWE3 and changing PA would be a good start since it no longer synergizes very well with the rest of Mallyx(the Heal ends up being a worse Consume Conditions now and we only have 1 trait that benefits from self-conditions since Pulsating Pestilence is broken).

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Malchior.5732:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

lmaogg.7325:

Revenant need more cleanses imo. Especially Mallyx.

Mallyx is fine, with Demonic Defiance, FoN, and Pain Absorption

So is it fine that Mallyx demands Demonic Defiance AND Herald for FoN to handle Conditions?

Without FoN(and even with it), maintaining Pain Absorption is not very easy since it costs so much to cast. I really think it needs a cost reduction, and something other than taking conditions from your team mates. If Mallyx isn’t going to stockpile them, then what’s the point? Putting yourself at risk by making you more vulnerable to Boon Strips? All that you can do with those conditions is make your Heal stronger(although it’s just a worse Consume Conditions now) and potentially get a damage increase per condition. Mallyx’s design is just all over the place now. Hopefully we can get some changes soon, not just for Mallyx, but for Jalis and Ventari too.

IIRC in the Beta Test, Embrace the Darkness copied all conditions on you to nearby foes every once in a while but this was removed upon release. So basically Mallyx is missing 1/3 of it’s intended power. Also Pulsating Pestilence is broken because of this.

Yup, he used to do that and his Heal used to scale better. Banish Enchantment also maxed out at 5 Confusion stacks and Unyielding Anguish could apply 3-6 Torment pretty much instantly while displacing(which admittedly needed to be changed).
However, now he’s nowhere near as strong.

And to those wanting nerfs, realize that the reason that Viper Mallyx works is actually because of Shiro being so mobile(most condi specs aren’t), allowing you to close gaps more easily, quickness/superspeed, a great stun break(huge deal), and a powerful CC along with good active defenses to allow Viper use. This means it can apply conditions pretty well while Mallyx can handle the more niche situations.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

lmaogg.7325:

Revenant need more cleanses imo. Especially Mallyx.

Mallyx is fine, with Demonic Defiance, FoN, and Pain Absorption

So is it fine that Mallyx demands Demonic Defiance AND Herald for FoN to handle Conditions?

Without FoN(and even with it), maintaining Pain Absorption is not very easy since it costs so much to cast. I really think it needs a cost reduction, and something other than taking conditions from your team mates. If Mallyx isn’t going to stockpile them, then what’s the point? Putting yourself at risk by making you more vulnerable to Boon Strips? All that you can do with those conditions is make your Heal stronger(although it’s just a worse Consume Conditions now) and potentially get a damage increase per condition. Mallyx’s design is just all over the place now. Hopefully we can get some changes soon, not just for Mallyx, but for Jalis and Ventari too.

DominiFactum.7103:

Malchior.5732:

1. You can’t do all of that at the same time because energy exists.
2. You have to stand in the AoEs.
3. It mostly just spams Torment.
4. Has no stun break.

When you consume Facet of Darkness you get a stun break. See wiki for Gaze of Darkness.

Also, Invocation, Minor Grandmaster trait — Invoking a Legend breaks stun.

What I found more disconcerting was lack of skill(s)/trait(s) for movement increase. Only exception is Facet of the Elements which gives you swiftness (33%) for an upkeep cost of 1 energy.

None of these are in Mallyx.

Dristig.9678:

The Ace.9105:

There is a reason why oRNG uses 2 condi revenants and almost everyone in top pro league uses them.

Seriously, the level of denial around here is crazy. How much more evidence do you need that nearly every team having one and some teams having two?

It’s not denial. Fact is that it has a lot of weaknesses and shortcomings.

A lot of teams used it? Okay, cool.
One team used 2? Sweet.

When it turns into another D/D Ele scenario where pretty much all teams run 2 or a team wins with like 4 of them, then we can complain.

Why do we want Mallyx changes? It’s just a Torment-bot now instead of being as awesome as it was in BWE. There’s far less strategy involved.

1. You can’t do all of that at the same time because energy exists.
2. You have to stand in the AoEs.
3. It mostly just spams Torment.
4. Has no stun break.

Halan.7931:

I agree, died so many times in PvP because no energy to use UA or Crystal Hibernation.
Either remove energy cost from weapon skills or make Facets into proper signets without upkeep cost.

No problems with other legends, but with Glint it’s turning you into sitting (or autoattacking) duck. Even having only might+fury facets and actively using weapon skills in PvP depletes all your energy, and boons granted are too short to switch. Why not just use Shiro+Mallyx then.

It’s funny, because I(and many others) have had the exact opposite issue.
Glint allows me to have a crap-ton of Boons and still use all my weapon skills whenever I need them, enough that they linger until I swap back to Glint, thanks to Facet of Nature. Even being at -1 upkeep (Nature, Fury, and Might), you shouldn’t be having any problems with energy unless you’re like the OP and aren’t swapping Legends or you’re just spamming everything(also, Facet of Nature is great, use it).

Using something like Shiro/Mallyx, you should have a much harder time managing energy due to higher costs in-general(20 – 35 energy is not cheap) and lack of “emergency buttons”(Mallyx doesn’t have a Stun Break, nor an anti-burst heal).

Piggtron.7420:

Any non trolls that are not trying to turn this post into a troll insult the prayer post post? Trying to have a serious discussion.

No one insulted you…

Piggtron.7420:

Im reading my post. I can’t find where I said I was spamming skills. I’ll read it again to make sure

Due to the issue you’re having, it’s pretty much a given that you’re spamming skills that don’t need to be spammed.

ghost.1804:

Revenants are balanced imo except for one skill, Unrelenting Assault- which appears to be the favorite skill of every Revenant i’ve ever encountered. I’ve seen it crit for over 15k which is a one shot to many players. It’s on a 12s CD and you evade all damage while doing it as well as hopping all over the place popping in and out of stealth so basically it can’t be countered. I’ve seen plenty of revs that basically spam this, and then when its over, use crystal hibernation, and cycle these two skills back to back so they are basically immune to damage while dealing a great deal of it

for some reason anet saw it fit to give guardians and revenants skills that ultimately become crutches for most players

Quite a few things wrong here.
1. UA can’t one-shot anything technically because…it’s not just one swing.
2. UA can’t be spammed because it has a 12s CD and often fails or you can get CC’d, etc. It also isn’t “popping in and out of stealth”.
3. You can’t just cycle between these two skills; one has a 12s CD and the other has a 25s CD(and roots the Revenant).

At the very least get your facts straight.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Just used PA against Half Baked during a guild mission, my group took no damage… i was able to absorb, and negate all his condi damage.

And yet an MM Necro can do a similar job while AFK, funnily enough.
Or you could just get someone with group cleanses.

Loki.4871:

Mallyx worked as a boss in GW1 because he was a single target brick-s**thouse with spirits in the background buffing him. So he could take conditions (plus bleeding and poison and burning didn’t stack in duration or intensity) and use the whole ‘more conditions I have the harder I hit’ thing.

It really didn’t/doesn’t work for a player character; you pop Pain Absorption at the wrong time and you can get 20 stacks of burning; better hope you can ditch it before your resistance comes off cooldown!
You could give the stance a trait/passive baseline trait that gave condition damage reduction… but then you’re essentially nerfed every condition build against them.

That’s even before you consider all the condition cleansing flying around. I think Mallyx needs to do more torment (make it so the revenant doesn’t bleed targets; it has torment for the condition damage) so instead you absorb the condtions and give enemies nearby torment?

They could have re-worked Mallyx to function with “Demon stacks” that he gains every time a condition is afflicted on the player and having more stacks would make the stance stronger. It would require a lot more work than what was done, but it could have made everyone happy. Spamming Torment is just dull and since you have so few cover conditions now, you could just end up doing nothing due to all the cleansing.

A little too late now to fix Mallyx, I fear. If big changes don’t happen soon, I’m worried that they wont happen at all until the next giant update :L

apharma.3741:

Think of it as a condition cleanse for your party and given that you’ll get a fair amount of resistance from it anyway it will render most of the conditions ineffective till they’re gone.

It’s arguably worse since a single boon strip spells doom for you and at 35 energy, if you don’t absorb a decent amount of conditions, you wont really have that much Resistance(you need to absorb about 4 conditions, assuming no Facet of Nature and that you’re using Demonic Defiance, to “break even” on energy and get “perma-Resistance”).

With no cleanses, you better hope that resistance lasts long enough because as soon as you can’t maintain it, you’re probably going to start melting. I really think it worked better before because your heal scaled better and your other utilities also got significantly stronger.
Nowadays, I really think it should just cleanse or something. The resistance is nice and I like it, but I don’t like eating my friend’s Burning stack and then dying because someone had a random boon strip(or just having a ton of long-lasting condis on me and being forced to swap because, well, lolno Stun Breaks).

Miserymachine.7512:

Some parts of Mallyx depend on how many conditions you have on yourself. I believe the idea was to provide an upside to pulling those condis onto yourself.

Yes, but that was the old Mallyx that could actually utilize those conditions effectively. The new Mallyx is obviously not built to abuse these and was not changed enough and the result is a very confused set of utilities + trait line.