Guild Wars 2

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

But you can’t look at any ability in a vacuum and not take into consideration all the possibilities.

I did consider all the possibilities. Unyielding Anguish won in more cases than EtD.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Phase Traversal is a lot of fun, but I do understand the complaints about it. No one can escape from a Rev outside of stealth. I think it would be fine to add a cooldown but it would have to be very, very short. 2-3 seconds would be ideal, and definitely no more than 5 seconds, IMO.

Whole point of the class was to have little to no cooldowns on our utilities and Shiro already has a cooldown on his elite. Can we just not do this and keep our good chase potential? Even if you spam it, you’re going to be left with little to no energy and forced to swap, so it’s not like it’s unstoppable.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

And then you use any non-auto skill and it’s gone in a few seconds. It’s awful.

You know what the number one comment I get from people constantly?

“How did you just vaporize me”.

20+ stacks of vulnerability + fire + poison + 15-20 stacks of torment, and people just melt away. This can be done to groups as well. Just watching them melt often being able to down 2-3 people at a time before being downed myself in 1v3 situations . Of course I’m still learning, and others are still learning there’s still power to the elite now.

Sure, it’s not the same as before ,but it works. I’m even coming to terms with the 7 upkeep cost.

What, did they just stand still and have 0 cleanses? You’ll never do that against someone that knows what they’re doing.

Example of 1v3

1v3 downed all 3, stomped 2. Using Mallyx ETD and Glint

They literally did just stand still….I saw that guy stand in Glint’s Breath the entire duration(actually ran through it himself). The Ranger never swapped weapons and just spammed 1 on his bow, and the Engi was just standing there using Flamethrower 1…

With Berserker Amulet and Runes of the Scholar and Sigils of Force and such, popping Facet of Nature with Elder’s Boon, taking a Signet of Spite(and then giving myself Resistance) while having Mallyx’s damage trait, then popping EtD and abusing a “bug” to have EtD activate while being in Shiro’s stance to then activate his Heal and using Unrelenting Assault against my Necro friend using a Marauder’s amulet, I did over 24k damage, downing him in a single Unrelenting Assault.

Same god-like conditions on Sentinel’s amulet did like 18k damage or so.

However, using a full glass Revenant in real PvP and not abusing bugs or ridiculous settings, I was averaging around 8k damage on a full UA on most targets. Double dodges nullified most of the damage and I could melt from any amount of conditions due to a GIGANTIC lack of cleansing. I basically had Dodges and Facet of Light to keep myself alive(Condi Builds would annihilate me if I wasn’t careful).

From all that playtesting, all I found was that Hammer does crazy-kitten damage if you leave me alone(much like a Well-bomb Necro really), Sword can be very effective in finishing off lone targets, but eh. It’s just a good “artillery” build. Smart evading could allow me to survive, but again, any amount of conditions was deadly to me.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

And then you use any non-auto skill and it’s gone in a few seconds. It’s awful.

You know what the number one comment I get from people constantly?

“How did you just vaporize me”.

20+ stacks of vulnerability + fire + poison + 15-20 stacks of torment, and people just melt away. This can be done to groups as well. Just watching them melt often being able to down 2-3 people at a time before being downed myself in 1v3 situations . Of course I’m still learning, and others are still learning there’s still power to the elite now.

Sure, it’s not the same as before ,but it works. I’m even coming to terms with the 7 upkeep cost.

What, did they just stand still and have 0 cleanses? You’ll never do that against someone that knows what they’re doing.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

etd, properly traited is already pretty powerful. 546 toughness, 10% to all stats, spreads flame, poison, torment. Especially when you take into account Burst of Strength stacking Vulnerability. I’ve been devastating capture points with Elemental Blast, Burst of Strength, and then swapping to Embrace the Darkness. It’s kind of amazing.

Lets not be misleading here.
The poison is 1 stack per 20s and the Burn is only 2 stacks every time you activate an elite(10s icd).
Then, it takes several seconds of being in range to actually do any decent amount of Torment.

Which means in objective manipulation, it’s fantastic .Covers the entire capture point just fine. Doesn’t make it good in every situation, just it makes it useful in close quarters combat.

And then you use any non-auto skill and it’s gone in a few seconds. It’s awful.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

etd, properly traited is already pretty powerful. 546 toughness, 10% to all stats, spreads flame, poison, torment. Especially when you take into account Burst of Strength stacking Vulnerability. I’ve been devastating capture points with Elemental Blast, Burst of Strength, and then swapping to Embrace the Darkness. It’s kind of amazing.

Lets not be misleading here.
The poison is 1 stack per 20s and the Burn is only 2 stacks every time you activate an elite(10s icd).
Then, it takes several seconds of being in range to actually do any decent amount of Torment.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

thejoedude.3465:

My condi revenant does great in pve… i keep up constant 15 stacks of torment, 3 to 4 stacks of burning and 2 to 3 stacks of poison with some chill and weakness and confusion thrown in, and its very easy to get up to 30+ stacks of torment and double the burning as before, all condis at once for me typically hit for 4-8k per second on a mob standing still so i say its pretty good, and in pvp its so easy to hold a point with mallyx, just drop a ton of torment feilds on the point and turn your elite on and your in great shape to hold that point, anyone that enters just melts

Yep, I’ve had similar experiences. I think people just need to learn how to play with the strengths you get with the new changes and look forward instead of backward.

I did. I won because of Mace/Axe and Banish Enchantment and Glint. Barely touched anything else on Mallyx.
It’s really underwhelming now. It literally got worse in almost every category. All you got was 1 more confusion stack and slightly longer Torment if you camp EtD.

http://imgur.com/a/D5Jw0

Haven’t found anyone who has pictures of these so thought I’d share.
Personally using it to make a background or something(well, my friend is).

Kidel.2057:

you are again avoiding all my point.
You say “we lost all the condis that we self inflict and that the opponent throws at us” and I think that’s clear to everyone. What you don’t get is that in any group content you get all those condi cleansed. We experienced it, you maybe didn’t but we did. Since players going against one another was never intended, that mechanic got removed.

I agree on the point that we lost condi damage/utility and cc. This still can be fixed, but the [self condi-> condi copy] mechanic is not going to return. Thank god.

So please understand why they made those changes and stop asking for a step back, but instead think about a step forward.

I’m not even pleading for that mechanic to come back, but give us something to cover it, however, like I said before, increasing the baseline effect and lowering the way they scale would accomplish the same thing. He would still function decently when he’s fully cleansed constantly, but would not leave Mallyx in such a under-tuned state how he is now.

Right now, the only reason I use Mallyx is Banish Enchantment. It’s really good, but everything else is pretty mediocre. I would even go as far as dropping Mallyx and going Shiro/Glint with Mace/Axe and I think it would function better than Mallyx/Glint if it wasn’t for Banish Enchantment and Demonic Defiance existing.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Am I the only one that is enjoying Mallyx? Boon stripping, aoe torment / chill. Sure EtD needs work, Pain Absorption needs it’s cost lowered, but for the most part it’s still pretty powerful. Traited Banish Enchantment is pretty powerful. Some tweaking to be done for sure, but it’s not the end of the world.

We could do all that before and more >.>

Kodiak.3281:

Malyx pre-nerfs. Glint now.

This. Favorite weapon is Mace. Actually, it’s Mace/Axe.
Now if they could fix #5’s vertical issue…

Kidel.2057:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

Kidel.2057:

Mechanic: now it’s better.
Condi damage: now it’s worse.

It just needs some more condi output or a torment trait.

Mechanic, what mechanic? They removed that.

We had to rely on self-condi to do condi damage, now we simply do condi damage on our own (lower, ok, needs a fix). Any guardian/ele/REVENANT can wipe away all our stacked conditions and kitten us up, it’s an unreliable source of damage in any group content.

90% of the (good) mallyx footage I’ve seen was solo roaming or pvp.

Now, since Mallyx is simply the most useful legend in Raid (at least this first one), I want it to be able to do condi damage in group play. Thanks.

That’s actually not true. All that happened is that we now pulse a slightly longer Torment(which takes forever too) and our baseline Confusion stacks for Banish Enchantment was increased by 1(and our maximum got decreased by 2). UA also takes longer to stack Torment.
So, all that happened was that we lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, Vuln, and anything else an opponent throws at us(and literally every class throws useful condis) in exchange for 1 extra Confusion stack when we have 0 Condis, slightly more Torment(if your opponent sits still), and a Heal that got weaker the more condis we have on us.

All changes that didn’t need to happen because all they needed to do was make the baseline effects stronger while making the scaling effects slightly weaker(in this case, the Heal change would be fine).
I.E. Banish Enchantment could just do 3 stacks baseline and do 1-2 extra if you have X condis on you.
Same result, but kept the high risk, high reward gameplay Mallyx had. It was a Corruption Necro done correctly instead of what we have now, which doesn’t even want the self-condis at all.

Gaaroth.2567:

Windler.4815:

When it comes to revenant, Mallyx isn’t viable. Mallyx is laughable in PvP. Don’t dare use Pain Absorption or you’ll just bring a bunch of condis to yourself. Since you no longer able to send them out. What’s the point? If you remove that fun aspect of the build, why keep that part of PA? Also, the condi damage is no where near where it should be. EtD is a laughable elite. 10% stat increase and pulse 3 stacks of a horrible condition. For PvE, the second worse condition to stack in a pve setting is torment (behind confusion). PvE mobs hardly ever move. Meaning, in order to do as much damage as 3 stacks of burning; a rev needs to stack 13+ of torment. Suggestion, revert the changes. Change UA to a knock down and leave it as a pulse torment/chill field. The whole idea that mallyx conflicts with cleansing metas in game is a horrible argument. Metas change, they’re suppose to change. You killed a really interesting and fun play style.

Except you weren’t sending them out before, you were copying them and you had to rely on resistence to survive. Same ia now.
Mallyx now is extremely efficient at loading up condis and in that regard is more reliable now and stronger.
We lost a nice playstyle? Yes. We suck? Not at all!

Actually, I’d argue it’s just Mace/Axe and Banish Enchantment doing all the work.
PA is pretty hard to justify using unless you get condi-bombed(ironically it can make you condi bomb yourself).
UA is okay, but I feel like the range ahould be increased a bit or the energy lowered a tad. They gotta sit inside the field for it to be good and the radius is kinda eh.
Then EtD is just bad. UA stacks Torment better(along with a chill). It takes way too long to be worthwhile and all it means is that I can’t use any other skills if I want to actually use it. I’ll use UA or whatever and then EtD is completely worthless. It requires far too much time and energy to be useful.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Hiki.9310:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

I am finding Mallyx even better now, and am using Glint/Mallyx over Glint/Shiro.

I feel the exact opposite.
I find the new one to be worse. it has less access to non-damaging conditions , lower damage and no synergy at all. i even had to drop the corruption trait line and malyx for invocation and shiro, and that was for a condition build…

Boon Stripping, and Confusion Application is pretty awesome. Pulsing Torment, is pretty awesome, which when traited also pulses poison. And condition protection for your group, pretty awesome.

It doesn’t actually pulse Poison due to the 20s ICD and condi protection is nice only when you wont die to those same conditions. It’s a pretty expensive suicide buttons a lot of the times; at least before you could take people with you :L

Overall, I find myself relying entirely on Banish Enchantment and Mace/Axe with the occasional Unyielding Anguish and rarely ever use EtD anymore. It’s not worth the cost when I can stack Torment faster by other methods. Sure it’s not as constant, but it’s also not 240 radius with -7 upkeep, doesn’t take 8 full seconds to get 8 stacks, and allows me to stack Might and apply other conditions.

EtD really needs to be changed. Right now all it does is compete with UA(and it loses more often than not).

Kidel.2057:

Damage needs some tweaks, it’s low, but I have to admin that mallyx feels way easier to use now and even with druids in party healing every condi on you, you don’t lose damage.

However it’s mandatory in the first raid atm. You need its boon striping and condi damage for blue and red guardians. Maybe also the final one, I don’t know, client crashed.

Haven’t tried Raids yet, but it’s pretty mindless in PvP now.
You just gotta decide which one is less effective: Unyielding Anguish or EtD.
Don’t even bother with Pain Absorption unless you know for certain that your team has weak conditions on them. You’ll just kill yourself(and not take anyone with you).

So, yea, awesome. He might be better for PvE technically, but he’s lost a lot of reward in PvP. Just spam Torment and hope for the best.

Admitedlly I haven’t played with it too much right now, but from just testing it real quick it definitely feels like this.
I feel conflicted with EtD. If I start using it, I basically can’t use anything else because I’m only going to get like 3 stacks of Torment or I spam everything and get like 15+ stacks in a few seconds(which can get cleansed instantly and it drops back down to a handful of stacks). I feel like this was tested only against Golems or PvE Mobs that barely move.

I’m going to continue playing with it, but it definitely isn’t as fun or effective as before.

http://imgur.com/a/ArxPG

I took some pictures and I’m not sure if these issues were present in the last BWE, but in the first picture you can clearly see I only have facet of Nature activated, but I have 10 stacks for Hardening Persistence.

In the second picture I managed to keep EtD activated while swapping Legends as you can see. The only way to turn it off is to let the energy run out or swap back to Mallyx and turn it off(or swap back to Mallyx and then back out again).
I did this by activating the Elite at the same time as I swapped out.

Oh, and this isn’t bug-related, but the new EtD feels…underwhelming. Gonna keep testing.

I’m swapping from my main Ele(1k hours) to Revenant due to a disappointing elite spec AND a lack of good changes in the class.
Nothing on Ele feels fun anymore to me and I always feel like I need to take either Arcana or Water in every single build(with very little variety in the traits themselves) with at least a few Cantrips to enjoy myself.
Forget that, I’ll swap to Revenant, who despite being a bit inflexible, has a lot of cool new things to play with and I just enjoy the weapons a lot more. Helps that Roy also talks to the players more often.

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

They would never have that much damage reduction in jalis and your condi removal goes away.

There is every bit more synergy in elementalist as they have functioning combos between their four roles. Not only that effects of one can meaningfully persist In the others.

Please come up with a build for me that is Shiro and Ventari.

RotGD + protection is pretty high and your Condi Removal? Really? It’s designed as our biggest weakness afterall, but if it REALLY bothers you to lose group condi cleansing for 10 seconds, then Mallxy can still deal with them for your team somewhat.

The Elementalist has combos, but that’s kinda the point of their mechanic. They tend to have weak spells with high cooldowns to “balance” their 4 attunements. Even then, the combos you’re talking about are completely possible on Revenant too.
Axe 5 into Glint’s Breath move where they’re being pulled into Staff 5
Be creative.

Oh, and you want a Shiro/Ventari build? Try going for a Control/Support role.
Ventari can do his thing while Shiro provides insane mobility between fights(especially in PvP), strong Control in Jade Winds and allows Quickness Stomps/Rezzes(or even auto-attacking with Staff for orbs).
For PvE you’ll probably want Glint over Shiro, but since you’re hellbent on complaining, Shiro still allows for DPS while Ventari can provide crazy up-time on projectile destruction.

I meant cross stance combos not cross weapon. And when you are ventari leaving to either of the two specs stills makes you deal with either damage reduction or condis poorly.

The point of this mechanic is not to swap. Unless you need to switch roles. Or are too low on energy. What ends up happening is staying in one spec and being any class that had five utility and two weapons. The difference is that you lack any of the great self syngery or the classes you emote.

If we look at the utilities in a vacuum, then sure, I’d agree with you, but this class is obviously designed for you to have to manage your energy and what you need in the current situation and the utilities are for just that, utility. They don’t need to be combo’d between stances(even though there’s nothing stopping you from pulling chain-CCs or Phase traversal into EtD or whatever).

There’s not much wrong in camping Ventari if you want, but you can also swap to Jalis/Mallyx/Whatever for whatever they bring and some energy at the cost of being locked out of Ventari for a bit.
That being said, the only Legend that absolutely demands certain stats to be useful is Mallyx right now.
Jalis, Shiro, Ventari, and Glint all work fine with any stat combo.

Ventari wants healing power. Shiro wants power. Glint is synergy and wants nothing. Jalis is defensive so stats don’t even matter but it seems to want boon duration.

Yet it works without Healing Power just fine(especially the projectile destruction and cleanses) and Shiro works with literally anything.

I wouldn’t neuter the potential of a spec for just fine. And Shiro has life siphon which is damage affected by power. As well as one elite and utility that also do power damage. Specs either assert their will or fold to the will of the other spec.

wat
The spec still performs well without a ton of Healing Power. It even has several useful skills you can pull off still, like projectile destruction and cleansing. How is this neutering anything? You get some group heals and utility without sacrificing any damage or anything else you want. Sure, it’s not AS powerful as a Cleric’s Rev, but that wasn’t the intended goal was it?

Then, Shiro doesn’t need any power boost for his siphons to be useful as it’s a supplementary heal anyway(and the #6 still heals fine since it scales kinda poorly), you can take the GM that eats another stack of Stability to push that Control aspect harder and the Elite’s main use is Control rather than damage.

You’re really pushing this non-existant issue a lot.
All of them have a role they cover, but they can still sync up and do their jobs fine.
Even Ventari in a DPS build can work out(mostly in PvE) due to his huge up-time in projectile destruction. Really, the only one you can complain about is Mallyx since he’s all about Conditions and doesn’t help Power/Support builds very much.

You trying real hard to justify this flaw. The argument you are using can apply to any class. What you pretty much saying, is the same as somebody trying to argue that Necro Scepter and Dagger OH is perfectly find to have as off hand when spec into Power, because, hey they still do damage or some other role…

Or like arguing a Power Ranger is perfectly find with Torch Axe because hey it still does damage,,,

That argument just doesn’t make much sense. If I spec for Cleric tablet legend, none of my stats will improve the other legends besides ES, which shouldn’t count in this discussion since it’s not core part of the design.

Swapping legends will lock me out my skills that are useful, and put me into skills that I may not need, and for what? Stun break and energy?

Legends should have more choices to their skill make up, to make legend swap more useful.

Right now, it’s basically Engineer kits on long Cooldown with no other options.
That’s bad design.
Simple as that.

They could also reduce swap lockout but that has other issues. The best solution is adding more skills to Legends.

So now we ARE talking about weapon sets?
First you told me that only the weapon sets sync up for Revenant and that the utilities don’t.
Like, I gave you examples that they CAN be used even in Cleric’s builds. Shiro is nothing more than mobility, control, and Quickness which has many applications.
Jalis and Glint are nothing more than Group Support and some Control.
Ventari is nothing but Group Support.
They’re just utilities.

Would Ventari be stronger in Cleric’s? Yes. Would the others? Not as strong since it’ll be more selfish healing, but since Healing Power still beefs up your SHIELD and your STAFF and they can still provide group support in other ways, this complaint doesn’t make much sense. You don’t need different gears to be effective with any Legend other than Mallyx.
If you DESPERATELY want that Stun Break(which you don’t even need because Retribution + Herald lines exist), then there’s a cost due to Ventari’s design.
If anything, Ventari is flawed for not having a Stun Break, not the Legend swap.

It just looks like you’re desperately looking for an issue here even though there’s nothing. If you find yourself weak to CC and you don’t want to swap Legends(which you should anyway since pure Healing isn’t even that useful in the core game) then spec into Retribution. If you still want to heal team mates outside of Ventari, you HAVE OPTIONS.

It’s like complaining that an Elementalist swapping out of Water has a completely useless stat combination too. Like, yea, he can’t properly heal his team mates now, but you wont complain about that will you? I don’t understand why having a downtime in exchange for for versatily is so bad. So one of my stats isn’t being used in every as effectively for 10 seconds, wow. Druid could complain the same when they swap weapons and can’t enter Celestial form.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

They would never have that much damage reduction in jalis and your condi removal goes away.

There is every bit more synergy in elementalist as they have functioning combos between their four roles. Not only that effects of one can meaningfully persist In the others.

Please come up with a build for me that is Shiro and Ventari.

RotGD + protection is pretty high and your Condi Removal? Really? It’s designed as our biggest weakness afterall, but if it REALLY bothers you to lose group condi cleansing for 10 seconds, then Mallxy can still deal with them for your team somewhat.

The Elementalist has combos, but that’s kinda the point of their mechanic. They tend to have weak spells with high cooldowns to “balance” their 4 attunements. Even then, the combos you’re talking about are completely possible on Revenant too.
Axe 5 into Glint’s Breath move where they’re being pulled into Staff 5
Be creative.

Oh, and you want a Shiro/Ventari build? Try going for a Control/Support role.
Ventari can do his thing while Shiro provides insane mobility between fights(especially in PvP), strong Control in Jade Winds and allows Quickness Stomps/Rezzes(or even auto-attacking with Staff for orbs).
For PvE you’ll probably want Glint over Shiro, but since you’re hellbent on complaining, Shiro still allows for DPS while Ventari can provide crazy up-time on projectile destruction.

I meant cross stance combos not cross weapon. And when you are ventari leaving to either of the two specs stills makes you deal with either damage reduction or condis poorly.

The point of this mechanic is not to swap. Unless you need to switch roles. Or are too low on energy. What ends up happening is staying in one spec and being any class that had five utility and two weapons. The difference is that you lack any of the great self syngery or the classes you emote.

If we look at the utilities in a vacuum, then sure, I’d agree with you, but this class is obviously designed for you to have to manage your energy and what you need in the current situation and the utilities are for just that, utility. They don’t need to be combo’d between stances(even though there’s nothing stopping you from pulling chain-CCs or Phase traversal into EtD or whatever).

There’s not much wrong in camping Ventari if you want, but you can also swap to Jalis/Mallyx/Whatever for whatever they bring and some energy at the cost of being locked out of Ventari for a bit.
That being said, the only Legend that absolutely demands certain stats to be useful is Mallyx right now.
Jalis, Shiro, Ventari, and Glint all work fine with any stat combo.

Ventari wants healing power. Shiro wants power. Glint is synergy and wants nothing. Jalis is defensive so stats don’t even matter but it seems to want boon duration.

Yet it works without Healing Power just fine(especially the projectile destruction and cleanses) and Shiro works with literally anything.

I wouldn’t neuter the potential of a spec for just fine. And Shiro has life siphon which is damage affected by power. As well as one elite and utility that also do power damage. Specs either assert their will or fold to the will of the other spec.

wat
The spec still performs well without a ton of Healing Power. It even has several useful skills you can pull off still, like projectile destruction and cleansing. How is this neutering anything? You get some group heals and utility without sacrificing any damage or anything else you want. Sure, it’s not AS powerful as a Cleric’s Rev, but that wasn’t the intended goal was it?

Then, Shiro doesn’t need any power boost for his siphons to be useful as it’s a supplementary heal anyway(and the #6 still heals fine since it scales kinda poorly), you can take the GM that eats another stack of Stability to push that Control aspect harder and the Elite’s main use is Control rather than damage.

You’re really pushing this non-existant issue a lot.
All of them have a role they cover, but they can still sync up and do their jobs fine.
Even Ventari in a DPS build can work out(mostly in PvE) due to his huge up-time in projectile destruction. Really, the only one you can complain about is Mallyx since he’s all about Conditions and doesn’t help Power/Support builds very much.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

They would never have that much damage reduction in jalis and your condi removal goes away.

There is every bit more synergy in elementalist as they have functioning combos between their four roles. Not only that effects of one can meaningfully persist In the others.

Please come up with a build for me that is Shiro and Ventari.

RotGD + protection is pretty high and your Condi Removal? Really? It’s designed as our biggest weakness afterall, but if it REALLY bothers you to lose group condi cleansing for 10 seconds, then Mallxy can still deal with them for your team somewhat.

The Elementalist has combos, but that’s kinda the point of their mechanic. They tend to have weak spells with high cooldowns to “balance” their 4 attunements. Even then, the combos you’re talking about are completely possible on Revenant too.
Axe 5 into Glint’s Breath move where they’re being pulled into Staff 5
Be creative.

Oh, and you want a Shiro/Ventari build? Try going for a Control/Support role.
Ventari can do his thing while Shiro provides insane mobility between fights(especially in PvP), strong Control in Jade Winds and allows Quickness Stomps/Rezzes(or even auto-attacking with Staff for orbs).
For PvE you’ll probably want Glint over Shiro, but since you’re hellbent on complaining, Shiro still allows for DPS while Ventari can provide crazy up-time on projectile destruction.

I meant cross stance combos not cross weapon. And when you are ventari leaving to either of the two specs stills makes you deal with either damage reduction or condis poorly.

The point of this mechanic is not to swap. Unless you need to switch roles. Or are too low on energy. What ends up happening is staying in one spec and being any class that had five utility and two weapons. The difference is that you lack any of the great self syngery or the classes you emote.

If we look at the utilities in a vacuum, then sure, I’d agree with you, but this class is obviously designed for you to have to manage your energy and what you need in the current situation and the utilities are for just that, utility. They don’t need to be combo’d between stances(even though there’s nothing stopping you from pulling chain-CCs or Phase traversal into EtD or whatever).

There’s not much wrong in camping Ventari if you want, but you can also swap to Jalis/Mallyx/Whatever for whatever they bring and some energy at the cost of being locked out of Ventari for a bit.
That being said, the only Legend that absolutely demands certain stats to be useful is Mallyx right now.
Jalis, Shiro, Ventari, and Glint all work fine with any stat combo.

Ventari wants healing power. Shiro wants power. Glint is synergy and wants nothing. Jalis is defensive so stats don’t even matter but it seems to want boon duration.

Yet it works without Healing Power just fine(especially the projectile destruction and cleanses) and Shiro works with literally anything.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

They would never have that much damage reduction in jalis and your condi removal goes away.

There is every bit more synergy in elementalist as they have functioning combos between their four roles. Not only that effects of one can meaningfully persist In the others.

Please come up with a build for me that is Shiro and Ventari.

RotGD + protection is pretty high and your Condi Removal? Really? It’s designed as our biggest weakness afterall, but if it REALLY bothers you to lose group condi cleansing for 10 seconds, then Mallxy can still deal with them for your team somewhat.

The Elementalist has combos, but that’s kinda the point of their mechanic. They tend to have weak spells with high cooldowns to “balance” their 4 attunements. Even then, the combos you’re talking about are completely possible on Revenant too.
Axe 5 into Glint’s Breath move where they’re being pulled into Staff 5
Be creative.

Oh, and you want a Shiro/Ventari build? Try going for a Control/Support role.
Ventari can do his thing while Shiro provides insane mobility between fights(especially in PvP), strong Control in Jade Winds and allows Quickness Stomps/Rezzes(or even auto-attacking with Staff for orbs).
For PvE you’ll probably want Glint over Shiro, but since you’re hellbent on complaining, Shiro still allows for DPS while Ventari can provide crazy up-time on projectile destruction.

I meant cross stance combos not cross weapon. And when you are ventari leaving to either of the two specs stills makes you deal with either damage reduction or condis poorly.

The point of this mechanic is not to swap. Unless you need to switch roles. Or are too low on energy. What ends up happening is staying in one spec and being any class that had five utility and two weapons. The difference is that you lack any of the great self syngery or the classes you emote.

If we look at the utilities in a vacuum, then sure, I’d agree with you, but this class is obviously designed for you to have to manage your energy and what you need in the current situation and the utilities are for just that, utility. They don’t need to be combo’d between stances(even though there’s nothing stopping you from pulling chain-CCs or Phase traversal into EtD or whatever).

There’s not much wrong in camping Ventari if you want, but you can also swap to Jalis/Mallyx/Whatever for whatever they bring and some energy at the cost of being locked out of Ventari for a bit.
That being said, the only Legend that absolutely demands certain stats to be useful is Mallyx right now.
Jalis, Shiro, Ventari, and Glint all work fine with any stat combo.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Malchior.5732:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

They would never have that much damage reduction in jalis and your condi removal goes away.

There is every bit more synergy in elementalist as they have functioning combos between their four roles. Not only that effects of one can meaningfully persist In the others.

Please come up with a build for me that is Shiro and Ventari.

RotGD + protection is pretty high and your Condi Removal? Really? It’s designed as our biggest weakness afterall, but if it REALLY bothers you to lose group condi cleansing for 10 seconds, then Mallxy can still deal with them for your team somewhat.

The Elementalist has combos, but that’s kinda the point of their mechanic. They tend to have weak spells with high cooldowns to “balance” their 4 attunements. Even then, the combos you’re talking about are completely possible on Revenant too.
Axe 5 into Glint’s Breath move where they’re being pulled into Staff 5
Be creative.

Oh, and you want a Shiro/Ventari build? Try going for a Control/Support role.
Ventari can do his thing while Shiro provides insane mobility between fights(especially in PvP), strong Control in Jade Winds and allows Quickness Stomps/Rezzes(or even auto-attacking with Staff for orbs).
For PvE you’ll probably want Glint over Shiro, but since you’re hellbent on complaining, Shiro still allows for DPS while Ventari can provide crazy up-time on projectile destruction.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Dirame.8521:

Knighthonor.4061:

Legends are locked into certain predesigned roles and each legend’s doesn’t seem to sync with other legends and their roles. Legend swap also seem to be the go to design for regenerating energy when fully low as well.

This to me seem to be a flaw in the design of the Revenant’s Legend and Energy system.

Because let’s say, I am a Ventari Support Revenant in full cleric gear and Centaur Legend for support.
I run low on energy. Now what Legend will benefit my role and gear choice now? Centaur has the only heal support of any legend besides Herald.
Should I switch to a condition legend? Or Dwarf legend, or Assassin legend with my cleric gear to get that energy boost?
What benefit would I have in doing so, if I will be locked out of the Centaur Legend when I do swap?

IMO the better solution to this flaw, is by giving each legend an additional set of skills that can be switched in place of the stock skills, that may potentially fit the role of the build I may be building around at the time. This way all stats would still fit the legend I swap to, as well as the role I can continue to play.

The legends do sync.

Taking Ventari for Support is just one form of support. You can take Jalis for damage reduction on the Elite (and now condi damage reduction) OR you can take Mallyx to pull condis off of your teammates.

The most interesting part about the Revenant is the skills and how you can play around with them. That is really not an area where the Rev has issues. If you had gripes with the traits themselves, then I’d be more inclined to agree.

They do not sync. The weapons are the only thing that can be made to sync.

When I swap from ventari to Glint I go from 2000hps to 600. The only benefit being maintaining regeneration. A swap to malyx is pointless because ventari has condi removal. A swap to jalis is pointless because ventari can already give protection and any further damage reduction loss is made up for by healing.

The roles are separated. There is no sync like elementalists.

Wat
Elementalist doesn’t sync like that either.
You swap from Fire and your DPS goes down the drain if you’re using Staff. MH Dagger has no sustained damage in Fire, but little burst in Air, then there’s no Healing on any Element outside of Water. They get locked out of most of their Healing, DPS, Control, Mobility, etc. by swapping while Revenant can swap between two roles that can actually sync up either via weapons, traits, or similar ideas.

Also, Jalis isn’t pointless at all because giving team mates damage reductions outside of Protection is pretty powerful and unique. Arguably, 2k hp/s isn’t necessary if they’re taking like 80% less damage and 5 seconds later you’ll be able to swap back to Ventari anyway.

Knighthonor.4061:

Misguided.5139:

If your stats don’t fit with the second legend you choose, then choose different stats or a different legend.

If you don’t want to swap for a stun break, don’t. if you are running out of energy, stop mismanaging energy.

You still not getting the point. If I spec for Cleric gear and Tablet, what non Elite Spec legend would go with that gear?

answer me that.

Assuming you absolutely cannot camp Ventari and absolutely refuse to use Glint for whatever reason, you can drop on Jalis for continued group support(group damage mitigation is pretty nice).
You’re still able to heal team mates with X/Shield and Staff, so I don’t see an issue.

I think Revenants and Heralds will be more scary for you come HoT.
Easy Boon Strips(along with Confusion), multiple ways to apply Chill, can apply Resistance to ignore our conditions(like Immobilize and Burning/Bleeds), has multiple long Evades/Blocks, good Stab uptime if traited properly, and ridiculous gap closers(on Shiro) that I think any Ele will have trouble running from. Not to mention how it can support its own team with +50% Boon Duration and a multitude of Boons for little effort.

I think a Mallyx/Shiro or Mallyx/Glint build could be troublesome to fight as an Ele. Then again, condition builds aren’t exactly great in higher ranked games, but regardless, this could change or they could use a Hybrid damage build and I expect them to be a threat to consider even if Shiro/Glint ends up being more popular.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

As pointed out though, you have to be facing a condi target. If you weren’t fighting a condi-dispenser, Mallyx was only partially effective. Now, you don’t have to depend on that. You are self-reliant.

Not necessarily true. Eles, Guards, Rangers, Power Necros, even Thieves, etc. all provide Conditions for you to play with without even focusing on them and IIRC, EtD used the Rev’s Condition Damage.
You were less effective against builds that had like no (damaging) conditions at all, but those aren’t exactly common. The old elite was somewhat situational, but very powerful while the new one has no reason not to be activated(it only puts you at -2 energy/sec after all) .

Tempest works best in the trash bin.

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

Gaaroth.2567:

Malchior.5732:

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

Wut? @1200 condi dmg torment is 70|140 while bleedind is 94.
Basically you need 1 time and half more stacks to be on par. Rev can dish out easy 15 stack and can spike for at least 25 (possible but extremely consuming), necro needs to put 22 / 37 stacks just to be equal. Hint: he doesnt.
Sure, has other condis. Imho atm we are extremely reliable condi appliers, beaten only by engis.

And Necro has corruptions(we have Confusion and Boon Stripping) and transfers and while Necro Condi isn’t super strong(at least it wasn’t pre-patch, dunno now), that isn’t the point. The point is that they have something that sets them apart and is unique.
Now we’re just Torment dispensers, that while out-putting more Torment than anyone else, is just another condi tank.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

No, 1 stack of Might on a 20s Cooldown(at best) is pretty good….
It’s not like the Air line barely synergizes with Glyphs anyway; don’t be silly.

Glyphs are fiiiiiiine.

#Glyphsarefine

Make this popular enough and we might get 2 stacks with a 30s ICD.

Glyph of Elemental Harmony give 3 stack of might. It seems only fair to have the trait give the same. Even if casting the Glyph heal grants 6 might, who will it truly bother? (It already gives 4 anyway)

It’d be nice to bump up the Protection a tad too; 3 seconds of Protection and only a single Glyph is instant :L
Makes it a bit difficult to use the already slow utilities with hit-or-miss effects.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

No, 1 stack of Might on a 20s Cooldown(at best) is pretty good….
It’s not like the Air line barely synergizes with Glyphs anyway; don’t be silly.

Glyphs are fiiiiiiine.

#Glyphsarefine

Make this popular enough and we might get 2 stacks with a 30s ICD.

No, 1 stack of Might on a 20s Cooldown(at best) is pretty good….
It’s not like the Air line barely synergizes with Glyphs anyway; don’t be silly.

Glyphs are fiiiiiiine.

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

LunaraGK.8725:

You’re all probably better off ignoring Lonewolf Kai and their tantrums. They seem to be of the nature and mindset of “I’m always right, you’re always wrong.” Anything to the contrary will wind up causing a screaming-fit/tantrum. In short? Feed not yonder troll.

From what I’ve read, other that them, this is a good debate over the potential nature of the changes until they can be experienced first hand.

All I really want is:

1. If possible, I want Roy’s reasons behind removing EtD’s Condi Copy(and not changing Pulsating Pestilence to something different/more useful/less RNG).

2. At the very least something more interesting to be brought into Mallyx. I’ve read some really awesome suggestions like the Demon stacks thing or Self-Corrupting all your own Boons to then spread or something more than just vomiting Torment.

savacli.8172:

If I’m not mistaken, the other issue with EtD was that it copied the conditions you had at the same level of intensity. In other words you could walk in with zero condi damage, resist a burst from a Burn Guard (for example), and effectively make the guard eat his own attack. Since EtD is a pulsing effect that Guard would have to worry about this problem every 3 seconds.

To me, that doesn’t seem right. Yes, you can just strip the Resist boon off a Rev and have him explode, but how readily can a boon be stripped vs how often a Rev can apply that boon on himself?

Necros still have their own corruption, but their skills work differently. The Necro gains virtually nothing from hoarding conditions outside of his heal. Any sort of condition manipulation or transfer is a one time effect as well so there’s not this constant chase of having to repeatedly wash off copied conditions.

Ultimately, Mallyx still does well as a condi counter. I agree that there was a lot of flavor lost, but mechanically a Mallyx Rev is still very strong (at least on paper) against condi builds. Other than laughing at your foes by ignoring all conditions effects, Bolstered Anguish still offers an incentive for hoarding conditions (even more so for sinister-esque builds).

Edit: As far as a stand-alone Condition build for Mallyx (can Mallyx generate enough condi’s on his own)? Well, that’s to be determined in the next beta. On paper it doesn’t look all that great, but Roy mentioned changing/adding traits to help the Legend self-reliance.

AFAIK, it used the Rev’s own Condi Damage(and again, it’s only 1 stack for 3 seconds). Then, Necro’s Curse line does have Plague Sending(and Necro’s transfers on Staff/OH Dagger) and Parasitic Contagion(that should work, no?) to actually “make use” of the self-conditions. It doesn’t work very well, but the design is pretty similar to Mallyx’s. You’re right that Mallyx was made to hoard them while Necro was made to get rid of them, however, this was the Corruption gameplay that actually worked.

Also, the Heal, Pain Absorption, Bolstered Anguish, Repleneshing Despair, and Pulsating Pestilence were all technically nerfed upon removing Self-Conditions.

A stand-alone Mallyx condi build might work, but since it relies almost entirely on Torment and a few supplementary Burn/Confusion/Poison stacks with few Cover Condis(Chill/Vuln) , I don’t know how well this will do. It has no Control, no Stun Break, no Cleanses, no Transfers. So you have to just vomit out Torment I guess.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Because that’s not how things work? Roy is just a regular person and can make mistakes; that’s the whole point of the Beta anyway: to fix things. I think he went a little too far with the changes.

I don’t see anything special you can do with EtD anymore. Outside of the +10% stat boost, literally all it does is pulse out Torment. What special strategy can you do with this? Please tell me, because outside of not being dumb with the timing, there doesn’t seem to be much else. Do you want me to use Unrelenting Assault to stick to the target? I could do that before. Do you want me to use it after they cleanse? I have no Condi-Bombs to use, so you basically have to use EtD to make your Condi lethal by using it then. There’s literally nothing else you can do with it.

Actually, you’re using nothing but blind speculation. Roy never specified what was unhealthy, but removed several aspects of Mallyx. He did mention reasons for the Displacement and the Self-Condis(which, again, are pretty debatable), but never EtD. Displacement was disorienting, and Self-Condis were awkward to use with Group cleanse, but EtD? No one knows. You can’t ignore this fact.

Sorry, I’m not a trainer or have the time to help you. If you have a guild, I’d suggest hitting someone up for some strat help from someone who knows condi-gameplay well.

Look at the quote again:

…while I know some of you will miss some old functionality we feel it will be the right choice for the health of the game and profession for the long term.

Yes, he does not specify which skills, but if you look at the context of what he was saying and when he said this, you’ll see it was refering to all of the Mallyx changes, including EtD.

EDIT: Here’s a direct link to the post where I got the quote from. If you look at the previous postings, you’ll see the context he is replying too.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Upcoming-Revenant-changes-for-BWE3/page/3#post5494389

So basically, you have no idea what else the new EtD can do(all it does is pulse Torment…) and your “facts” are nothing but blind speculation(like you just said, he doesn’t refer to EtD at all).

I’m just about done since you clearly don’t want a discussion.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

He never specified why he did it. Part of the reason Roy is so liked here is because he usually goes into “why” he does these changes. In this case, he took away Displacement, gave a valid reason. He took away Self-Condi because it’s awkward for teams to use which is debatable and he took away Condi-Copy on EtD because….I don’t know. He NEVER specified that EtD was unhealthy with it, it’s just gone. Was the functionality that was unhealthy the displacement, the self-condis, or the condi copy or all of them? I don’t know. He didn’t say.

He doesn’t HAVE to say “why”, but I’d like to know because just saying it’s unhealthy(which he didn’t even direct at EtD) doesn’t tell me much.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

The strategy is just not being dumb with it. It literally is just pop EtD and follow the target because there’s nothing else to it; it’s just a Condi Pulsing skill.
If they cleanse, it’s just going to be re-applied immediately and like I said, I don’t think this will be really weak or anything, but it lost a ton of depth.
Oh, and Cover Condis? We actually lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and Vuln applications on Mallyx because of these changes.

Before, I could apply Self-Blind/Weakness and then pulse it out or I could walk through Fire fields on purpose to start dealing out better damage, or I could watch when my team gets Condi-Bombed, use Pain Absorption and then spread the condis around. Powerful? Yes, but it only copies a SINGLE stack of each Condi, it had a 1s cast time, the condis themselves only last 3 seconds, it only has 240 radius, and without Pain Absorption, you’ll only have 2 seconds of Resistance.
I have trouble believing this is unhealthy.

Old Mallyx was a Corruption Necro done right. It’s a high risk, high reward playstyle that Condi builds are generally lacking and it was a ton of fun.
At the very least make the Condi Copy trait not so RNG-based. It’s way too unpredictable for me to ever rely on.

Again, why does he have to explain every single detail to us? Why not just trust in what the developer does? Roy’s track record shows that he deeply cares about the Revenant, so it’s not like he is doing this just to spite the class.

Also, I can’t help you if you’re unable to see the more complex strategies for using EtD effectively for condi-attacking. That’s a learn to play issue. As I said before, if you think popping EtD and sticking to the target is good enough for the amount of effective Torment, you’ve already failed at condi-Rev. There’s a lot more involved, and alot more what-if’s you’ll need to be prepared for.

Because that’s not how things work? Roy is just a regular person and can make mistakes; that’s the whole point of the Beta anyway: to fix things. I think he went a little too far with the changes.

I don’t see anything special you can do with EtD anymore. Outside of the +10% stat boost, literally all it does is pulse out Torment. What special strategy can you do with this? Please tell me, because outside of not being dumb with the timing, there doesn’t seem to be much else. Do you want me to use Unrelenting Assault to stick to the target? I could do that before. Do you want me to use it after they cleanse? I have no Condi-Bombs to use, so you basically have to use EtD to make your Condi lethal by using it then. There’s literally nothing else you can do with it.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Chakatsilverpaw.5218:

I’m with Malchior on this. Lonewolf Kai, you cant just shout “wrong” every time someone Disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a child throwing a tantrum. The truth is He did never specify what with Unhealthy. The only real answer was Cleansing. The OP is right really, If its possible to stop condi’s from being Cleasned that really should be the route taken instead of gimping the entire build.

What in the world are you squawking about? Re-read the posts again. I’m simply stating facts. Malchior was stating that Roy said condi-cleanse was the only reason for changing Mallyx, when he clearly stated more. Implying that’s the only reason is just plain stupid when there was more to it, and unless you’re Roy himself, you can’t say otherwise. He gave his reason S. Deal with it.

Actually, you’re using nothing but blind speculation. Roy never specified what was unhealthy, but removed several aspects of Mallyx. He did mention reasons for the Displacement and the Self-Condis(which, again, are pretty debatable), but never EtD. Displacement was disorienting, and Self-Condis were awkward to use with Group cleanse, but EtD? No one knows. You can’t ignore this fact.

Columbo.5924:

On a side note: Hunting thieves and mesmers is actually that one thing that Tempest is currently good against, as Overload Air hits though stealth (you see no damage indicator but your target will be hit despite being stealthed). The radius of overload air is quite okayish, so if you are good at the guessing game this can really put the fight in your favor. With fresh air you can also bypass the very long attument recharge times. I seriously dont know if that is going to change when HoT is going live, but that was the state in the last BWE.

You mean like any other cleaving move in the game? You can do that now with Air Autos on Dagger.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

He never specified why he did it. Part of the reason Roy is so liked here is because he usually goes into “why” he does these changes. In this case, he took away Displacement, gave a valid reason. He took away Self-Condi because it’s awkward for teams to use which is debatable and he took away Condi-Copy on EtD because….I don’t know. He NEVER specified that EtD was unhealthy with it, it’s just gone. Was the functionality that was unhealthy the displacement, the self-condis, or the condi copy or all of them? I don’t know. He didn’t say.

He doesn’t HAVE to say “why”, but I’d like to know because just saying it’s unhealthy(which he didn’t even direct at EtD) doesn’t tell me much.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

The strategy is just not being dumb with it. It literally is just pop EtD and follow the target because there’s nothing else to it; it’s just a Condi Pulsing skill.
If they cleanse, it’s just going to be re-applied immediately and like I said, I don’t think this will be really weak or anything, but it lost a ton of depth.
Oh, and Cover Condis? We actually lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and Vuln applications on Mallyx because of these changes.

Before, I could apply Self-Blind/Weakness and then pulse it out or I could walk through Fire fields on purpose to start dealing out better damage, or I could watch when my team gets Condi-Bombed, use Pain Absorption and then spread the condis around. Powerful? Yes, but it only copies a SINGLE stack of each Condi, it had a 1s cast time, the condis themselves only last 3 seconds, it only has 240 radius, and without Pain Absorption, you’ll only have 2 seconds of Resistance.
I have trouble believing this is unhealthy.

Old Mallyx was a Corruption Necro done right. It’s a high risk, high reward playstyle that Condi builds are generally lacking and it was a ton of fun.
At the very least make the Condi Copy trait not so RNG-based. It’s way too unpredictable for me to ever rely on.

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think old mallyx completely shut down a condi class, and as Roy pointed out, is very unhealthy for the game/future game. There are already several skills out there that can shut down builds entirely alone. We don’t need another one of those. Instead, those should be brought back down too.

Rather than a copy condi mechanic, why not a strengthening mechanic for incoming condis? For example, the 10% stat gain from EtD is with no condi’s, add an additional 10% stats to a total of 20% if you get a condi?

Except Roy never said Mallyx was shutting down Condi builds; he only mentioned how Group Cleansing made it awkward to use. I’ve only seen a whopping 1 complaint about this and there was no reason from Roy as to why he removed the Condi Copy.

I don’t even buy that it was OP. Condi builds can either:
1. Boon Strip Resistance so the Rev takes a billion damage(recall that EtD only copied a SINGLE STACK)
2. CC the Rev(Mallyx has no Stun Breaks so the only way to mitigate this effectively is to Roll while using Retribution + Herald)
3. Run away for a few seconds(Pain Absorption + EtD = 5s of EtD) since it has 240 Radius and the Rev will most likely only have Off-hand Axe to reach you.

So, if you drop 15+ stacks of Burning on me in a second and I’m just copying a single one that you apparently can’t deal with, is there really an issue?
What “kills” Condi Builds is more the Resistance(Which is costly) rather than the Condi Copy.

That’s cool, but you don’t have to supply Phalanx-like Might to be good. Being so versatile and still being unique(+50% outgoing boons) is enough to be wanted.
Herald might not be mandatory, but no one should ever complain about having a Herald; it’s always going to be nice to have one. That being said, what they should change is how our Might on boon trait works. Right now, if you activate all the facets, you only get like 1 stack of Might per 3 seconds because of how the pulses work. You can’t properly time the facets to maximize this trait or anything so it usually ends up only giving you a couple stacks of Might.

Nostredeus.3105:

Malchior.5732:

Nostredeus.3105:

whilst the phalanx can pump might without sacrificing anything is a bit meh.

He sacrifices personal DPS while the Revenant sacrifices nothing to get the perma 11 Might.

The DPS drop is worth it hence why phalanx is mandatory right now. Either way no-one is running the might upkeep outside of badly organised groups where you have to carry hard. Also it’s worth bearing in mind that the upkeeps have an energy cost meaning there is an opportunity cost sacrifice there, if you have to pick between perma regen, fury or protection and 11 stacks of might it’s clear which you will run. Not only that but the might upkeep works differently to the fury, regen and protection because might is stackable; it takes time to build up such that 11 stacks perma is very optimistic on my part.

Just my 2 cents.

Well that’s kinda the point. The Phalanx Warr spreads a ton of Might, but the Herald gives +50% outgoing boon duration, Regen, Might, Fury, Prot, or Swiftness whenever needed without sacrificing much of anything.
Then, say you don’t have a Phalanx Warr: you still got 11 Might by yourself that pulses even OoC. No Ele? You got Perma Fury. Got both on your team? You can pulse Prot if needed or just help wveryone out by giving them Might and Fury before the fight even starts or swap to Ventari for Projectile Destruction duty or swap to Mallyx for max DPS potential.

Nostredeus.3105:

whilst the phalanx can pump might without sacrificing anything is a bit meh.

He sacrifices personal DPS while the Revenant sacrifices nothing to get the perma 11 Might.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Idk why you keep arguing for Tempest being a Healer. If I need someone to Heal my team, I’ll probably take a Herald for +50% Boon Duration and like 15-30 seconds of Projectile Destruction when necessary along with good healing AND still maintaining good DPS or I’ll take a Druid to completely surpass your own Healing while also bringing a bunch of control options.

Because that IS what a tempest line dose. Even if you like other healers or not that you feel are better at it. From a real stand point do you think the tempest line and shouts are made for dmg?

As was pointed out, the Tempest was sold as “Front Line Support”, not as a “Healer”.
As such, 3 of the 4 Overloads do nothing but damage(and some CC on Earth) and increase damage output and almost all the Shouts do damage when cast(and Fire Aura deals damage too).
Then, the Tempest line only has a single “Healing” trait that needs the Shouts to function properly.
I actually don’t know what the Tempest is really supposed to do. It’s just a mess. It’s gotten a few good changes, but I still don’t know what the heck we’re supposed to do with it.

Idk why you keep arguing for Tempest being a Healer. If I need someone to Heal my team, I’ll probably take a Herald for +50% Boon Duration and like 15-30 seconds of Projectile Destruction when necessary along with good healing AND still maintaining good DPS or I’ll take a Druid to completely surpass your own Healing while also bringing a bunch of control options.

Alekt.5803:

rotten.9753:

Alekt.5803:

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Of course they are. You can trait elemental shielding with shouts but the amount of protection is laughable. Instead, you could trait elemental attunement and spend in earth /water as low time as possible to give boons as often as possible. I’m not sure how anyone can neglect that. You cannot trait both water and tempest and claim how much healing you have because in order to maximise you’d have to swap as often as possible and overload as often as possible.

Arcane reduces the cooldown after overloading. But if you feel like giving up on Elemental Attunement, your call.

That’s like never worth it.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Don’t forget that Druid is an elite spec where-as ventari is base.

Why would that change the fact that Ventari is less interesting than Druid and needs some changes?