Guild Wars 2

Valento.9852:

@Malchior, while I understand your rage, you shouldn’t blindly state Karl is ignoring us. I think he’s kind of sorting out our current situation… we should just wait until the very next time they talk to us.

I said Karl is not posting here, but I didn’t specify it’s him ignoring us :L

Kidel.2057:

Valento.9852:

Killyox.3950:

least favorite =/= worst

Logic 101

While that is true, it doesn’t change the fact that tempest are still the worst elite spec so far.

worst elite spec for the best class that will continue being the best class after HoT. It’s not a big problem, you can live.

Stop breaking this game eles

I don’t understand how you want to be taken seriously in the Revenant sub-forum, but you come here to troll.

It’s a huge problem that Eles have a bad elite spec; we’re paying good money for a quality product and getting shafted like that makes everyone angry, understandably so.
I think most Eles would be more than happy for D/D Ele to be nerfed as long as they don’t completely destroy our sustain, because that’s exactly what happened a long time ago and we became total trash in pvp, but of course, we can’t actually do anything because Karl doesn’t post here and all our feedback is largely ignored.

Just to clarify, because I’m not going to continue any further with you, the word “either” means something. In the sentence “You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.” what is being said is that you will lose AT LEAST ONE of these things; pointing out that losing any of these is not worth it just to take the Tempest line because it sucks so bad.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

It dose if you do not lose much or nothing from the base ele class. Tempest for the most part is an ele with the abitly to use WH if they want and shouts and gets 4 new skills that ele cant use. The only thing tempest loses from ele is one line most likely a dmg line such as air or fire (if your going tempest your going support or/and tankly your not going dmg and if you are your comply missing the point of tempest.)

We’ve been through this. You DO lose a lot. You lose either damage, stone heart, healing, easy boons, etc.
The tempest line literally gives you nothing worthwhile.

Zenith.7301:

Mara.6782:

For me tempest dont give as much new things as others give. Reaper give you more melee options, Chronomancer is like new class playing with time, Dragon hunter give guardian more ranged play, upcoming daredevil give thief options to not use stealth to survive etc.
Overloads are just normal skills that give attunements more cooldown. Sword would have give elementalist melee option making it little more like warrior just as berserk is little more like elementalist.

Don’t you even dare compare ele to reaper.

I would trade reaper being a sidegrade like tempest ele in exchange for necromancer to be remotely as good as base ele is.

A staff ele is still better than reaper, so please shut up with this QQ about weaker classes.

You are god tier.

What. Just because base Ele is strong, it doesn’t excuse the crappy elite spec.
Ele being strong now can change with a single patch that tweaks a few numbers; we were getting replaced by Shoutbows not too long ago.

BlackBeard.2873:

Coldtart.4785:

Absolutely everything about overloads just gives them a far too high opportunity cost. The only way they could possibly be worth such a high cost is if they were ‘I win’ buttons, which would be bad for obvious reasons.

EXACTLY!! I agree 100%…They MUST reduce the costs significantly (traits, time penalties, casting times, etc.), as currently the only effects that would justify these astronomical costs end up being OP.

Lower the costs a lot (while making the effects proportional to the cost), add NEW utility (so that overloads aren’t “more of the same”) and more people will accept the concept.

At the very least, they should remove the Charge-up time. If I want to use Water/Earth Overload, I’m gonna need it NOW, not 5 seconds later.

They also need to make the Overloads do something unique. Maybe make one of them pulse Aegis or Strip Boons or something to make them potentially worth stopping your rotation.

Wolfric.9380:

So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

If you can call kitten channel a burst…

Leo G.4501:

rotten.9753:

Leo G.4501:

On topic, my issue on these forums is that players bemoan the idea of tempest for being a bunch of the same but they don’t want tempest to be a new playstyle. They want it to fit right on top of how ele plays with no variation.

It’s puzzling how you manage to reach that conclusion. People are tired of the same exact playstyle we had over past 3 years and now that we’re getting more of that it simply broke the camel’s back. Tempest brings absolutely no new boon, no new condition, overloads are what ele is already about (fire – might and burning, water – heal and condi cleanse, etc).

Well, I’m just as puzzled how those posters can complain about the spec being more of the same and yet also complain that it doesn’t fit the same elementalist style. Even if the resulting conditions and boons are the same, you can still vary how those effects are obtained or applied…

That is to say, I don’t disagree that no new effects were added but the elementalist theme is tied to the elements itself. It’s like complaining that fire burns and ice is cold.

More of the same, as in, Fire does Burning and Might, Water does Cleansing and Healing, etc. There’s nothing new here to play with really; it will always compete with base Ele. To say that “fire burns” and “ice is cold” is just being lazy.
Why can’t Fire cleanse and Heal? It’s not a new concept(Cleansing Fire), but would help differentiate Tempest from Ele.
Why can’t Water be damaging or have a lot of Control?
Why can’t Air apply new boons like Quickness or Earth apply Aegis or something? Why can’t they do new things that are still in-theme?

Then it doesn’t fit the “Elementalist style” because Overloads have 0 synergy with a lot of our traits and weapons that benefit swapping. Are you seriously telling me that I’m supposed to sit in Water attunement for 5s with D/Wh? That’s a long time just to give someone a chance at interrupting me.

If they’re not going to make big changes to Overloads, at least remove the charge-up time. It completely destroys any chance of them being useful during a fight.

katniss.6735:

The people who tested it in beta, were you trying to solo roam with warhorn? Because I don’t think that’s the intent of the designers.

I can only speak for myself, but I assume a lot of other people tried it too; I did some PvE in Verdant Brink, did some PvP and did some Duels. All with friends. Tempest was boring and disappointing in all of them.
If it was weak, but fun, I wouldn’t hate it so much. The Reaper was a little on the weak side, but I had a blast with it, but the Tempest was SO boring to use. All you do is wait around and then you get interrupted and you have to wait some more. Whoever thought that casting a melee spell for 5s without any Stability or Dodges was going to be fun, is a madman.

Xillllix.3485:

Overloads would also work if they gave you a new set of skills to use when overloading.

But then Anet would have to design 20 new skills…

So Ele is never getting a new 2-handed weapon then?

Argol Vazin.3061:

If you want to play a melee support, switch to herald. I am sure you would have fun since it is full of easy to use passives that look to be a rather mindless playstyle. you don’t have to think about what element to switch into and what skills to use for the situation while maintaining and effective rotation.

While I totally agree that Tempest sucks in its current iteration, saying Herald is mindless is rather…ignorant.
Yes, it has Passives(which you need to activate…), but they eat away at your Energy, the same resource you use for your weapon skills. Then there are the active skills that put your utilities on cooldowns. So they work kinda like Signets, but with a resource. To say that they’re mindless isn’t correct. Just activating them all and leaving them on is not only a waste of Energy, but not as effective(in fact, a lot of traits and skills point to Glint utilities being a tad too weak).

Aetrion.8295:

Ganathar.4956:

Not true. The only reason why tempest must be “better” is because it does what an ele can already do, but worse. An elite spec is supposed to be different.

Yea, but what could it possibly do that Elementalists don’t do already?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/How-many-will-quit-if-they-dont-fix-tempest/first#post5419975

Kidel.2057:

But they can already burst and do condi.

The burst which relies entirely on landing Phoenix? Everything else on Scepter sucks.
Don’t even think that Burning Speed and Fire Grab are reliable Burst skills, especially on Celestial. So predictable that it’s painful and you’ll need quite a lot of Might to make it actually do “burst” in the same vein as a BURST build(it actually never comes close to being as good as other Burst skills in the game).

While you’re right that the Ele can technically do Condi(it just ends up being the crazy amount of stacks from Fire Ring and Drake’s Breath), we don’t have any dedicated condition build. Actually, the Tempest didn’t introduce a single new way to apply Bleeding or any other damaging Condition. All we got it more Burning, Vuln, Cripple, and immobilize(most of which are pretty unusable). It’s pretty much purely Power, but Power builds would never touch Warhorn or Overloads, so it doesn’t even matter.

ronpierce.2760:

People are so goofy… “I’m going to quit if the new line isn’t stronger than my already overpowered class standard builds!” Good grief. Tempest has some issues but it’s not NEARLY as flawed as some people like to think, and the class as a whole is doing very fine. Who cares if your new line isn’t the new mandatory Arcane 2.0…

Cuz it’s really boring to me. It wasn’t fun nor effective and Ele has gotten really dull to me lately → swapping to Rev.

I’m gonna ignore Tempest, play base Ele for pvp dailies maybe and focus on my new main: Revenant.

I was just messing around with it in a build editor and Rev has some cool variety in conditions that I would really love to use; however, I noticed that the only ranged option we have, also doesn’t many conditions.

I thought of using a mix of Dire and Rabid with Corruption/Invocation/Salvation(Build editor lacks Herald; I was thinking of using Salvation for the Daze mostly, but maybe Retribution or Devastation is better?) and managed to get 3k Armor with ~23k Health along with 20% Crit Chance(and Roiling Mists(?) beefing it up to 60%), allowing to take advantage of On-Crit procs to make Hammer not suck as much on conditions(but still suck at it).

I’m actually not very experienced with WvW builds, but maybe it could work?

You guys come up with any cool ideas for this or is Revenant just lacking a tad to pull this off without using Hybrid build?

I have no idea why anyone would defend the current iteration of Diamond Skin. It’s an obviously flawed design.

Not a bad idea. Makes Rebound a bit more useful; even though 33% still isn’t amazing for an elite, at least it recharges all attunements.

actual changes

“We heard that you guys think Overloads are a bit too strong, so we’re tuning them down a bit. We don’t want the other elite specializations to get jealous

-All Overloads now take 10s to finish casting.
-Casting an Overload now puts your attunement on a 50s Cooldown.
-All Overloads now do 80% less damage/healing while casting and after finishing the cast."

I plan to use my Ele as a bank character and swap to Revenant/Herald.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

A Water/Arcana/Earth D/D Elementalist would be able to get 5 new Condi Cleanses.
2 from Aura skills
1 from Leaping through a Fire Field
1 for switching to Earth
1 for activating Armor of Earth(On top of Cleansing Water)

That means dropping Stone Heart, so I guess it’s not that bad. Might be fun with Shouts + Soldier Runes; making them cleanse 2 conditions(except Eye of the Storm, Wash the Pain Away, and Rebound…).

Would be a nice change, but I don’t think Karl is willing to make big changes like this, especially now.

It would not be such a great options for D/D cantrips indeed since using protection to cleanse condition would also mean to break their rotation. They would act like accidental condition cleanse.

Also, you had forgotten Elemental Contingency. (But still is accidental)

I didn’t include it because it’s not entirely in your control(admittedly Leaping through a Fire Field isn’t a guaranteed thing either, but depends more on you).

Yea, I guess it’d be fine.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

I think it’d be interesting and it makes Earth even more favorable for Aura builds. It’s also much less…passive when fighting against Condi builds. However, maybe it should have an ICD to prevent the condi cleansing to be too insane when alongside Water and 3x Cantrips.

NOTE TO OTHERS: This is not just to “nerf” Diamond skin, but for Elementalists to have skills that aren’t horribly designed. It doesn’t matter if you “had trouble with DS Eles” or not. That’s not the point. The point is to have a much more healthy trait that doesn’t completely counter specific builds and is useless against a lot of other things.

I do believe that putting an ICD would be a way to ruin the trait. Earth Shield can give 3 instance of protection with a single pull if 3 targets are hit for instance.

About Cleansing Water (Regen clears condi), I did think about it. I don’t think that a cantrip elementalist can benefit enough from it as it would not get as many instances of protection as a no-cantrip/ no water build that would be prone to use that trait.

A Water/Arcana/Earth D/D Elementalist would be able to get 5 new Condi Cleanses.
2 from Aura skills
1 from Leaping through a Fire Field
1 for switching to Earth
1 for activating Armor of Earth(On top of Cleansing Water)

That means dropping Stone Heart, so I guess it’s not that bad. Might be fun with Shouts + Soldier Runes; making them cleanse 2 conditions(except Eye of the Storm, Wash the Pain Away, and Rebound…).

Would be a nice change, but I don’t think Karl is willing to make big changes like this, especially now.

I think Mesmers are strong right now, but OP? Nah. They aren’t push-overs, but they aren’t impossible either. Arguably the wrong changes were made, but that’s not the topic at hand.
Elementalists can apply a little bit too much Burning, but if the stacks are reduced I think it’ll be fine too.

I think it’d be interesting and it makes Earth even more favorable for Aura builds. It’s also much less…passive when fighting against Condi builds. However, maybe it should have an ICD to prevent the condi cleansing to be too insane when alongside Water and 3x Cantrips.

NOTE TO OTHERS: This is not just to “nerf” Diamond skin, but for Elementalists to have skills that aren’t horribly designed. It doesn’t matter if you “had trouble with DS Eles” or not. That’s not the point. The point is to have a much more healthy trait that doesn’t completely counter specific builds and is useless against a lot of other things.

Couldn’t you accomplish the same thing by just using a Staff Ele anyway?
All the Tempest is adding is another Heal/Cleanse every so often that can be very easily disrupted, in exchange, he loses out on either more Boon spam, better healing, or Stone Heart…

I’m not very experience in the Revenant, but Poison is pretty good for minimizing the opponent’s healing. It shouldn’t be a waste to apply that. Seems to be in short supply without a Doom sigil for the Revenant too.

Off-hand Sword is meant to allow some defense while also allowing a very unique Pull. This can be useful for picking off a specific person from a group. Very useful actually. The block is nothing like Shield 5, so I don’t know what you mean.
Sword 4, much like Ranger GS 4, allows for some quick Blocks against counter-pressure, but also allows you to Immobilize a target to continue the onslaught. Shield 5 is far more defensive in that it prevents movement and heals, but doesn’t have any real follow-up. If anything Shield 5 is a bit weak, but I wouldn’t say they fulfill the same role.
Off-hand Sword is far better than Shield if you want to pick people off, while Shield is better for some group support.

The Off-hand Axe is actually a Shadowstep that puts you directly in the danger, so it’s better for maintaining/starting Pressure rather than picking someone off.

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

This is quite unique to believe that burning, chill, vulnerability or projectile reflection is a “cc effect”.

Yes they are all types of cc well burning not really a full cc is more of a cover and you seemly leaved off being stunned from shocking aura. So… yes auras are a type of buff/cc effect that tempest gets a lot of more then d/d ele.

Chill is a Soft-CC and Stun is a Hard-CC. The others aren’t CC at all.
Regardless, they rely entirely on your opponent hitting you; which isn’t great. The only really good Auras are Frost(10% damage reduction) and Shocking(Stun) and the latter is the only one the Tempest can’t easily share.

rotten.9753:

Malchior.5732:

He already destroyed our Signet Aura builds…perfectly good trait and it was just taken away because Tempest would have something to do with Auras. What we got were AoE Signets(aka Shouts; same effects as our Signets) that completely undermine the Powerful Auras trait, have much higher cooldowns, and we now have 5 different lines with 1 Aura-affecting trait in each >.>

Auramancer destroyed in favor of a much worse Auramancer.

Just wait till they nerf ele to the ground because of pvp dominance. Going by anet’s previous records they will overnerf it to the trash tier it has been in in the past. And tempest will make it only worse.

Dunno about you, I’m swapping to Rev/Herald.
Not perfect, but has potential and a Dev that listens to feedback.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

SkiTz.4590:

Alternate way to play dagger? No its not. Have you even kittening played tempest!!. Its based around boonshare and crap like that… Thats not an alternate dude…. Its the same kittening thing except its less optimal… No one is going to play a less optimal dagger ele unless they like losing.

I agree with you and I dont even play Ele, but I play against them.
However, I play Guardian. Ele and Guardian are under the same dev.

We(Guardians) complained that Dragonhunter Virtues were not worth it because they were only 600 range, whereas our vanilla Virtues were 1200 range.

The next thing we know, in the specialization patch, all our vanilla Virtues were nerfed to 600 range, to make Dragonhunter Virtues more appealing.

Just some advice, it might be better if we all just let the Tempest go by(no pun intended) rather than ask the dev to make it viable. From his track record of what he did to Guardian to make Dragonhunter viable, to make Tempest viable, guess what is going to happen to your optimal Dagger Ele?

He already destroyed our Signet Aura builds…perfectly good trait and it was just taken away because Tempest would have something to do with Auras. What we got were AoE Signets(aka Shouts; same effects as our Signets) that completely undermine the Powerful Auras trait, have much higher cooldowns, and we now have 5 different lines with 1 Aura-affecting trait in each >.>

Auramancer destroyed in favor of a much worse Auramancer.

Mahuyo.3079:

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

I kinda thought when I first heard about this class we’d be getting ability to use Quickness. Later on they introduced the new conditions and I was like, we’re definitely getting Slow. It seems perfect….

And then the skills came out and I was a bit sad.

Do you think ANet missed a good opportunity for a new Ele playstyle here?

EDIT: I also mean AoE Quickness and Slow for team play. Not a single person.

This is actually a good point, that I didn’t think of, though I guess they could make flash freeze give slow and chill, giving the perpective that you really are flash freezing an area, or make 1 of the trait say when you apply chill you also apply slow, but that might be to much. As for quickness I believe eye of the storm does that and is an aoe though I could be wrong about it being aoe

It’s AoE Superspeed for 5s. Quickness would have been much cooler.

Triflux.8027:

So we don’t have much other options besides cele D/D dowe? So people are complaining that we are OP in PvP, when we don’t really have any other options to play at this class and not suck?

You can play Staff Bunker and be okay(Celestial Water/Arcana/Earth and 3x Cantrips) or play D/F or S/F and be a much worse Thief/Mesmer. Other than that? Cele D/D is the best you got.

Azure.8670:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

1. That’s a very kittenumption. You assume Healing will be required at all.

2. That means it’s useless for old content; none of the other elite specs are designed like this. Why is ours screwed over?

3. The healing got buffed because originally SWAPPING CONSTANTLY WAS BETTER. Why is the risky heal doing so much worse than the super safe one? It’s not even about new group content, it’s just about good design. I mean, it still sucks, but at least it heals for more than 3k.

Revanent is. It’s honestly hot garbage for the current content, so is dragonhunter

There’s a difference between something that is not ideal and something that is literally useless.

Jski.6180:

Less support and debuffs with shout war / ranger / reapers then tempest.

All the support tempest does is AoE Auras, which we could already do before :L
The trait was completely removed just to give us the same thing, but with worse cooldowns.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Not really an issue of powerful or not or even being unique or not its just simply what is different from what a tempest can do vs what an ele can do. Ele cant aoe stun brake nor can they make boons on them self stronger mostly protection. If any thing ele is lacking effects and ability that are different from tempest.

Different doesn’t matter if it’s ineffective.

If its ineffective then it should be buffed not changed.

Do you honestly think buffing AoE Stun Breaks will make Tempest good?
At best, we can focus it around spamming Protection, which is really strange thematically since Tempests are destructive forces…

Yes i think it would go a longer way to making tempest a must have in melee groups. tempests in this game are support more like bards. Making the protection buff aoe would go a long way with out comply changing the ideal of tempest.

We have like 2 song-related traits. That’s it.
We’re not Bards. If that’s all it took, then hey, Warrior has a Warhorn and Shouts and so does the Ranger and the Reaper.

How dose that take away from tempest ideal of being bard like?

Because it’s not Bard-like at all.

Bards play song and sing and in doing so buff a team and debuff mobs. GW2 shouts are as close to singing becuse a long song would not work well in a fast game like this. A WH is as interment the only true combat interment in GW2. The only other that is close is foces and that is a pure skin thing and nothing more.

So for GW2 standers tempest is singing and playing an interment to buff / debuff.

If a Bard uses Shouts and Warhorns to buff/debuff everyone, then again, Warriors, Rangers, and Reapers fit the bill much better.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Not really an issue of powerful or not or even being unique or not its just simply what is different from what a tempest can do vs what an ele can do. Ele cant aoe stun brake nor can they make boons on them self stronger mostly protection. If any thing ele is lacking effects and ability that are different from tempest.

Different doesn’t matter if it’s ineffective.

If its ineffective then it should be buffed not changed.

Do you honestly think buffing AoE Stun Breaks will make Tempest good?
At best, we can focus it around spamming Protection, which is really strange thematically since Tempests are destructive forces…

Yes i think it would go a longer way to making tempest a must have in melee groups. tempests in this game are support more like bards. Making the protection buff aoe would go a long way with out comply changing the ideal of tempest.

We have like 2 song-related traits. That’s it.
We’re not Bards. If that’s all it took, then hey, Warrior has a Warhorn and Shouts and so does the Ranger and the Reaper.

How dose that take away from tempest ideal of being bard like?

Because it’s not Bard-like at all.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Not really an issue of powerful or not or even being unique or not its just simply what is different from what a tempest can do vs what an ele can do. Ele cant aoe stun brake nor can they make boons on them self stronger mostly protection. If any thing ele is lacking effects and ability that are different from tempest.

Different doesn’t matter if it’s ineffective.

If its ineffective then it should be buffed not changed.

Do you honestly think buffing AoE Stun Breaks will make Tempest good?
At best, we can focus it around spamming Protection, which is really strange thematically since Tempests are destructive forces…

Yes i think it would go a longer way to making tempest a must have in melee groups. tempests in this game are support more like bards. Making the protection buff aoe would go a long way with out comply changing the ideal of tempest.

We have like 2 song-related traits. That’s it.
We’re not Bards. If that’s all it took, then hey, Warrior has a Warhorn and Shouts and so does the Ranger and the Reaper.

Bawi.9541:

Malchior.5732:

No one uses that cookie-cutter spec in PvE, but whatever.

Let me reword that for you.
A class that has one spec per game mode that dominates because it offers exactly what’s demanded (if you’re having problems grasping that concept check out the necromancer), but leaves almost zero room for alteration:
Max burst/dps in pve, aoe at that. Check
Point bunker in pvp. Check
Well-rounded roamer. Check’ish
Ranged aoe and water fields in wvw. Arrrrr, check

Let me know if you are getting it now. You didn’t really seem stupid from your other posts, so here’s me hoping nothing happened to your head lately.

…………..NO ONE USES CELE D/D IN PVE.
That is exactly what you said: One build dominating all game modes. If you meant that Eles only have one viable build in each game mode, then that simply isn’t true. Even in PvE, people use Staff and sometimes D/F in optimized groups due to its superior projectile destruction.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Not really an issue of powerful or not or even being unique or not its just simply what is different from what a tempest can do vs what an ele can do. Ele cant aoe stun brake nor can they make boons on them self stronger mostly protection. If any thing ele is lacking effects and ability that are different from tempest.

Different doesn’t matter if it’s ineffective.

If its ineffective then it should be buffed not changed.

Do you honestly think buffing AoE Stun Breaks will make Tempest good?
At best, we can focus it around spamming Protection, which is really strange thematically since Tempests are destructive forces…

Mahuyo.3079:

I would say Tempest is Mainly lacking on the support end and be given traits, and on other thing, that focus more on the support theme, Tempest was supposed, according to the Tempest, mid range support.

Correction: Front-line support; a close-range specialization.
Directly from the article.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Not really an issue of powerful or not or even being unique or not its just simply what is different from what a tempest can do vs what an ele can do. Ele cant aoe stun brake nor can they make boons on them self stronger mostly protection. If any thing ele is lacking effects and ability that are different from tempest.

Different doesn’t matter if it’s ineffective.

Alphard.6529:

Xillllix.3485:

It doesn’t even work for melee support. You’ll just get pulverized when zerg clashes if you don’t mist form out.

It will work if they improve the traits.

That assumes they make the correct changes to traits, Overloads AND the Warhorn.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Well the tempest dose have things an ele cant do just most of them are very support pt aimed and self def. (aoe stun braking and stronger self protection)

It’s not unique or powerful.

Bawi.9541:

99% agree with OP. I don’t think you are right about staff wvw, but that’s not what this thread is about.
The thing is, what can you give to ele without introducing mechanics/boons that don’t fit their theme, and what mechanics can you introduce to a class that is so well rounded? Or rather, to a class that has one single cookie-cutter spec to excel in every game mode.

Not saying that a frontliner without stability with absurd channel times to get the same results that vanilla elementalist can get without casting is not a hilariously flawed concept.

Speaking of which: wtb blasting earth fields for stability

No one uses that cookie-cutter spec in PvE, but whatever.
Important: while D/D can do a lot of things, Ele is missing single-target ranged DPS, dedicated conditions, melee burst that doesn’t suck, and being able to specialize effectively in all the things it does(outside of pure healer in WvW and camping Fire in PvE for DPS).

Alphard.6529:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Both D/D and D/F are already our skirmish specs and they do their jobs WAY better than the current tempest ever could.

They do their job better because they have a different job. D/D and D/F are small scale skirmishing / 1v1 sets, warhorn is a melee support weapon, more similar to staff than to focus or offhand dagger.

I don’t think I’d ever take Warhorn over Staff for large groups.

Currently the Tempest has convinced me to play another class.

Am I missing something? Vamp Runes have never been an issue for me…except when I use them >.<
Always manages to cancel my heal mid-fight and then cause me to die 3 seconds later.
When my opponents use them, they usually have the same fate.

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult. The Elementalist in particular gets hurt by this as we can use all the stats effectively, but without the Celestial amulet, it’s more difficult to pull it off.
Maybe a better solution is to either shave off some of the stats or better yet, fix up the classes. Elementalist has a myriad of issues(too much reliance on Water/Arcane + 3x Cantrips and brain-dead Burn application) for example. At the same time, I think Conquest might be to blame as it benefits these types of builds.

Jski.6180:

Its a question is time manipulation about how fast something is cast or how fast it can be recast? To me i would like to see tempest get its own boon where for a time all ability are on a lower cd. We see this in tempest some what but its only for one abitly and is a class only type boon so not a true boon. So think of a boon that is the opposing of chill fitting better into ele / tempest.

Well, this is something that could make Tempest more worthwhile: something base Elementalist cannot do. Giving us a unique boon/buff/effect would be a perfect idea and an “anti-chill” could work. It might be too close to Alacrity though.

Alphard.6529:

Malchior.5732:

Because it’s not used as a 180 range weapon in spvp? It’s used near enemies, but not at melee range necessarily. Then there’s the fact that you need to actually cast Fire Overload…

Well the overload effects extend to 360 range, no? If you’re fighting on a point, this will cover a lot of it.

Uhh, they don’t? Air Overload got increased to 360 radius. Still the most worthless one. Fire Overload is still 180 radius.

Alphard.6529:

Xillllix.3485:

Why would a staff elementalist choose to camp in an attunement and use a close-range overload? Makes absolutely no sense.

Well given that both in spvp and in pve (dungeons at least, and sometimes in the open world) staff is used as a close range weapon.. why not?

Because it’s not used as a 180 range weapon in spvp? It’s used near enemies, but not at melee range necessarily. Then there’s the fact that you need to actually cast Fire Overload…

Zaoda.1653:

I’d also like to see a healing skill that’s a shout. That way it synchronises with any traits that involve shouts.

Wash the Pain Away is a Shout…