Guild Wars 2

Rym.1469:

There’s no arguing that in PvP, if you don’t get stunlocked, Viper Revenant can deal absolutely sick, colossal damage with conditions. Highest I’ve done with Viper setup in Conquest game was about 1 million 100k damage in total. Celestial Build comes close with about ~1 million damage.

You can see many people from top EU teams trying out Condition and Celestial Revenant right now. Just look around in the Mists.

What Mallyx needs is mostly some idea on himself, because while still fun, abilities lack flavour. They’re useful, but don’t pack as much potential for sick plays as in BWE2 and before.

What Mallyx absolutely needs and it’s also Ventari’s case – stunbreak and defense in Mace/Axe weaponset. In this meta being exposed for a second without some block, evade or similar thing is just such an incredible risk, Mace offers no defense (while all other weaponsets do – simple evade on #3 should be okay) and worst of all switching to Mallyx indeed means a lot of damage but sacraficing almost all survival against direct damage or CC lock (and CC locks are flavour of this meta) is too harsh punishment.

The reason why Shiro is so good and even Viper builds use it in PvP is that Shiro has overpowered stunbreak which other Legends do not.

Is it possible to play Mallyx builds in PvP? Yes
Is it harder to play than Shiro/Glint? Yes
Is it fun to play? Yes
Is it in good state then? No

tl;dr Mallyx is good if players don’t focus on you.

I don’t get the complaint. It’s a heal that you cast at the start of a fight and do increased damage while sustaining yourself.
It’s fine.

I really don’t understand what everyone’s fascination is with having the same exact functionality for everything. We lost an amazing condi spec and got a generic condi spammer(and some people claim it’s unique now…); I don’t want the same thing to happen to Shiro, where he slowly becomes something incredibly generic. Right now, he’s an assassin that sacrifices escapes and a strong mid-fight heal for good sustained damage/healing, Quickness/Super Speed, and the best Stun Break in the class.

deda.8302:

Each do 100,on AA, which is normal state of attack for revenant other than herald that is indead 10% .

Also i will not bet anything here since i can not remember exact numbers(and im not in a position to confirm it) i think torement can go up to 300 dmg per tick on power build,that is not insignificant number and may couse oponent to blew his condi clear for team mates to abuse.
Very usefull if you are out of energy and skills on cd that few 300 ticks of torment.

When your hammer does hit for 7k and enemy is on 2k hp 300 hurts

I will test it tonight and give exact numbers if you want.

That isn’t a 10% damage increase if it’s:
1. Not constant.
2. Is only “10%” on very specific attacks.

Then, in Heart of the Mists, against a Heavy Golem and Zerker gear and using Invocation/Devastastion/Herald(All damage coefficients, no boons), I got ~2000 damage on a critical with the Hammer auto and about 5600 with Hammer #2 on a critical at nearly max range.

Same thing, but with Corruption over Invocation or Devastation:
Tooltip says my Torment is going to do (80/159) damage and my Poison will do (235).

Total Damage you will do on 33% of your Criticals is 394 IF your enemy is moving.
Was that honestly worth it?
Yea, it’s “technically” more than 10% damage on auto-attacks, but not even close on Hammer #2 and you have to give up either:
A. 20% Crit Chance(Maniacal Persistence can sorta make up for it) and a Condi Cleanse/Stun Break
B. 150+ AoE Ferocity and +20% on targets with less than half health OR life siphons
or
C. Herald with all of its perks.

Is 394 damage really worth dropping one of those?
Let me remind you that this is 394 damage that will only proc 33% of the time and the poison only procs every 20 seconds when that 33% chance procs.
This is pathetic.

deda.8302:

“Artaz.3819
deda.8302:
Torment onn crit can be seen as 10% dmg increase
On a power build? Not a chance.
deda.8302:
and with poison although its on 20s cd it makes even more not only for dmg increase but heal debuff.
Poison is weak. Really weak. You’re right for the heal debuff but that is situational even in WvW/PvP as most builds have several condi cleanse counters. It’s at best a cover condition. The 33% reduction in healing is in effect, minor, in the grander scheme of things unless the Poison condition is spammable.
Hindsight is 20/20 but Torment damage (stay damage component versus mobility damage component) should have been added to the Poison condition (makes sense thematically too) once Burn condition formula was changed or make Poison the condition damage enhancer (aka Vulnerability). However, both would be huge in game balance change at this point and are likely off the table.”

Im sorry, if my hammer crits for 1k-1.5k and torment hits on power build for 100ish (while standing still)+ poison 100ish that is rougly 10% dmg increase for each of this conditions on power build…
This is not related to revenant only i use this for necro power or engi especialy which stackss condi like crazy even for power build.

And when your hammer #2 crits for 7k+?
How is that possibly 10%, assuming your Torment + Poison actually does a total of 100ish?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Malchior.5732:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

nearlight.3064:

In the words of helseth from his stream, “Why is that guy playing mallyx? Does he hate himself”?

Autoattack till about 90 energy in Mallyx, Pop Elite, then triple stack Unyielding Anguish, swap back to Glint, block then staff 5 out. Rinse, repeat, devatasting to enemy teams. I do this constantly and it disrupts the kitten out of them .

Okay, assuming you never eat a CC in that entire sequence, Auto-attacking for 8 seconds straight(assuming Facet of Nature isn’t activated), then popping an Elite that has a 3/4 cast time, and then casting UA 3 times(a grand total of 2.25s) and assuming they stand still inside your 240 radius AoEs and absolutely no one cleanses anything, then yes, this would stack a good amount of Torment.

I hope you realize how bad this is in reality.

Looks like you don’t wvw. You gain energy while being in combat, so as soon as you’re in combat, you gain energy. Then you attack from the side, and get the entire sequence off.

I actually WvW or sPvP full time, I don’t just sit around and theorcraft. Dropping that sequence while a point is contested, also does a kitten ton of damage during a group fight for a point.

Stop theory crafting so much and play the game.

1. You specifically mentioned “teams”. So this isn’t really WvW now unless you’re calling entire zergs, servers, and different groups a “team”.

2. Being in combat is all fine and dandy. Having nothing but Auto-Attacks for 8 seconds straight and being uninterrupted for another 4s(again, assuming no Facet of Nature) and then having everyone sit on-point on a 240 radius AoE sounds pretty unlikely in sPvP, let alone HoT sPvP, where CC is around every corner.

3. You don’t disprove my point at all by saying that I theorycraft too much. That is the equivalent of telling me “it just works because it does”.
I don’t know your rank, who you’re fighting against(if it’s the same people you fought in that one video you posted here when trying to prove that the new EtD is good, then you’re definitely not fighting good opponents), and I don’t even have a realistic scenario to work with. All I can understand is that you managed to stay in combat until 90% energy and you were completely ignored while on-point and you started spamming skills with 0.75s cast times. No one focus-fired you and no one tried to CC you at all? I’m not even considering the group cleanses that can be thrown around.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

nearlight.3064:

In the words of helseth from his stream, “Why is that guy playing mallyx? Does he hate himself”?

Autoattack till about 90 energy in Mallyx, Pop Elite, then triple stack Unyielding Anguish, swap back to Glint, block then staff 5 out. Rinse, repeat, devatasting to enemy teams. I do this constantly and it disrupts the kitten out of them .

Okay, assuming you never eat a CC in that entire sequence, Auto-attacking for 8 seconds straight(assuming Facet of Nature isn’t activated), then popping an Elite that has a 3/4 cast time, and then casting UA 3 times(a grand total of 2.25s) and assuming they stand still inside your 240 radius AoEs and absolutely no one cleanses anything, then yes, this would stack a good amount of Torment.

I hope you realize how bad this is in reality.

All the damage you take is turned into healing. So if you take a hit that would do 8000 damage, it instead heals you for 8000.

Azazel.1540:

I really don’t think they should revert Mallyx changes, as it would simply be too similar to condi necro builds imo.

Just to point out here:
Necromancer condi builds(actually, any build) can transfer conditions back, but they don’t enjoy hoarding them at all. In fact, almost everyone hates how Corruption Utilities give self-conditions and they hate how the Master of Corruption trait applies even more self-conditions.

Mallyx was about carrying conditions and copying them. The opponent had to deal with many low-duration conditions being pulsed on them while Mallyx risked it all to become stronger because of them; creating a high risk-high reward condition spec that this game was kinda lacking.

The old version wasn’t really “too similar to condi necro” because no Necromancer actually focused on transfers. In fact, the new version, aside from also being very confused in its design, is more similar to the generic condition builds on every other class since all it does is casually vomit out a couple conditions by Auto-Attacks and bursting conditions with a handful of utilities.
How is that not too similar? The old one had to micromanage energy, CDs, and conditions while lacking a stun break or cleanses!
It was very powerful, but rightfully so since any Boon Strip or Chain-CC could spell disaster.

However, if Mallyx is to remain how he is now, he needs several traits changed to reflect the new version and EtD really needs to do something other than apply Torment to not compete with Unyielding Anguish(we also REALLY need a Stun Break if Mallyx is not going to be able to Condi-Bomb as hard anymore since right now it’s high risk-meh rewards).

Star.8401:

Mallyx couples beautifully with Glint. I dont see how you could think otherwise. Mallyx traits allow me to completely ignore conditions, which is great for the current condi meta in wvw and pvp. Pairing with Glint it becomes a great combination. I like the fact that Mallyx can still be used on a power revenant and be really useful. I do miss being able to copy conditions with his ult, but I think the 10% to stats and pulsing torment is a fair enough tradeoff, if the GM trait was changed to 50% chance instead of 25%.

Corruption traitline is also great atm. Revenants dont really need any buffing or major changes.

Wat
I’m pretty sure it’s Mace and Glint pulling all the weight here while you just abuse Demonic Defiance to not melt. Mallyx and the Corruption line are both now incredibly weak to the point where running Shiro/Glint is actually better for dealing conditions. The only thing Mallyx has going for him is Banish Enchantment and Unyielding Anguish(so-so; its kinda better for power anyway) and the Corruption line basically only has Demonic Defiance and Spontaneous Destruction.

Also, EtD always had +10% stats so all that happened is it got better Torment uptime and then lost it’s copying ability.
The GM trait itself will always be mediocre when chance based though. It will just constantly activate when you don’t need it and you’ll copy around like 2 stacks of Vuln. These issues really need to be fixed.

Except only a handful of people actually care about the racials at all :L

Taldren.7523:

I find the Revenant rather clunky. My impressions and some suggestions…

1. Impossible Odds is blocked while Facet of Nature is active.
Solution: Impossible Odds deactivates Facet of Nature upon activation.

2. Soothing Bastion interrupts everything and roots you randomly. Usually right after I use Infuse Light (Glint Heal) or when I am in the middle of downing someone.
Solution: Have Soothing Bastion trigger Infuse Light for 3 seconds instead of Crystal Hibernation. Increase Soothing Bastion cooldown to 60 seconds. (Equivalent to Warriors Defy Pain which is only a Master ability and lasts 4 seconds).

3. Impossible Odds will not deactivate when stunned, dazed, or knocked down meaning you are chewing through your energy without any benefit.
Solution: Have Impossible Odds deactivate when stunned, dazed, ect.

Well, first off. You don’t mean that Revenant as a whole is clunky, but rather that very specific interactions are “clunky”.

1. So it just turns off the Facet and it goes on cooldown or something? Doesn’t seem hard to just pop the facet though.

2. I agree and that’s why I hate traits like these.

3. You can deactivate it while stunned, iirc, so this doesn’t really matter.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Do any of my fellow revenants EVER use Pain Absorption? Please enlighten me.

I use it when I know I’m gonna die if I don’t use it(i.e. I got condi bombed super hard and need to stall for a bit longer) or to save team mates from Burn bursts(which is actually a big risk for myself).

Otherwise, no. It costs a ton of energy and requires a lot of conditions on you to be useful.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Chrominum.3708:

pulsating pestilence doesn’t copy conditions

You’re kidding me, wtf Roy. You have one(thousand) job(s).

Don’t worry, it instead pulses a single stack of Torment

Taldren.7523:

Guys, guys, guys …

1. The 20s cooldown on Venom Enhancement and the 25s cooldown on Spontaneous Destruction make these traits nonsensical for any PvP build. Long cooldowns are ok on defensive traits, but not really for offense.

2. The 10s cooldown on Frigid Precision is borderline.

3. Pulsating Pestilence is broken and doesn’t work.

All these combined mean that you are practically pigeonholed into the spec of:
Demonic Defiance + Bolstered Anguish (or Frigid Precision for pure Condi) + Diabolic Inferno.

If I’m wrong I’d love it if you could convince me.

I’d probably take Spontaneous Destruction over Bolstered Anguish to just annihilate any Boon-reliant class even if the CD is kinda long.
Then again, I haven’t played PvP in a while, so maybe the cleanses are even more ridiculous now than in BWE3.
I agree with everything else.

bzcharkl.6438:

For instance in WvW, if I want stability I either need to play Jalis, and all that Jalis comes with (and his stability skill is honestly pretty crap), or never stray far from the zerg and hope that someone else can provide it for me.

Just pointing out that this isn’t technically true, since just running the Retribution line can provide you with Stability on-dodge(and running it alongside Herald can give you a decent up-time if you’re willing to sacrifice the dodges).
It’s definitely not enough for WvW, but that comes down to balance.

Doug Whisper.2465:

I guess it is for catering the causal players who complaint too many complexities in the original professions.

Yea, that’s why I mained Ele(and technically Engi) and now I main Revenant >.>
Totally because those classes are too complex(that’s why I have over 1k hours on Ele after all; class 2 hard) and not because of any other good reason.
It’s not like handling CDs + Energy correctly is actually more complicated overall than continuously repeating a pre-determined rotation that only varies very slightly depending on the situation!

Araris.7839:

It’s true. The class feels very incomplete. Very limited selection of weapons. No choice on abilities, and the legends are extremely limited as well in usefulness, which is why you see 99% of Revenant’s using the exact same set up.

For those of you defending the class, you’re not doing yourself any favors. You’re not making the game better, you’re limiting what could be, in some odd attempt to placate developers.

It’s fun. I’m having fun playing it. That doesn’t change the fact that it is too limited and down the line, it will be left behind if not improved upon. Every single Rev I see is using 1h sword, hammer, assassin, and dwarf. If they are post 50, same thing but assassin and dragon.

This is bad and they should feel bad.

Or maybe it’s because Shiro/Glint(or Jalis I guess, I’d take Mallyx) with Sword/X and Hammer is not only the highest DPS, but offers good survivability and mobility.
It’s the “exact” same set-up because Jalis, Mallyx, and Ventari are all either unfixed or are more situational. Shiro’s Mobility, Quickness, strong Stun Break, and AoE CC is just better in most situations.
It’s not about being limited, but rather that the other legends and weapons are currently too weak or just not as useful in PvE right now.

You’d have the exact same complaint with the vanilla classes too. Why did so many Elementalists take Fire/Air/Arcana or Water with Ice Bow and Glyph of Storms while wielding a Staff? High DPS, decent enough survivability for PvE, easy to use, and almost everything else was garbage in comparison.

We can say the same for the other classes. It’s just more obvious for Revenant, because again, 3 of our Legends are “unfixed” and the others are just universally going to be more useful(Shiro is good for Power, Condi, Defense you name it; same for Glint).

Lets be real here, your utility choices for most classes are already an illusion of choice.
So many garbage utilities on most classes that never get used and many more that are useless without the appropriate traits. So what’s the point?
Revenant still has choice in Utilities(choose two legends), but they come in packages rather than being separate.
You could see this as a limiting factor, but in many aspects, it’s a benefit.
You don’t get to mix-n-match, but you do get complimenting utilities(for the most part) instead of having them be all over the place(Glyphs on Elementalists) and intrude on your class mechanic(Conjures on Elementalists).
It’s much easier(in theory…) to balance each package rather than hundreds of different combinations of garbage utilities.

In the end, I feel like it’s not only more flavorful, but still good because each utility has a lot of different things to do and many applications, even if currently a few of them still need fixing(I’m looking at you, EtD and Inspiring Reinforcements >.<)

EvilSardine.9635:

No.

There are very few attacks that reach outside the listed range. It’s Rangers bow (which actually shoots 2200 range) and Revnants hammer auto attack. Those are one of the most obvious ones.

Why do these classes get to exploit bad coding? All projectiles and skills need to actually do what their tooltips say. Wouldn’t you complain if Revenant’s phase traversal reached 300 range less than what the tool tip says? I know i would.

Should we start buffing all ranged attacks so they hit far past their stated range? It would be awesome if warrior rifle could reach 1500 distance just like Revenant.

First off, Phase Traversal isn’t a projectile. Second, I’m pretty sure this “issue” is because of how the game handles physical projectiles.
Finally, this would be a much better thread if you didn’t complain about Hammer being ridiculous when CoR is pretty much its only deadly attack and easily strafed at its kill range.

Heartseeker can do a ton of damage and has no cooldown!
nerf pls?

Orion Templar.4589:

Those are some good suggestions. Whether they adopt something like that or not, it’s clear that Mallyx needs “something” to tweak/buff it. It cannot be left as it currently is. In PvE I’ve found that UA is rarely worth the energy cost, especially with its short range. EtD has potential (whether it is utility or elite) but it probably needs that tweaked trait someone mentioned was being looked at where torment does moving damage even when the foe is standing still.

Roy already mentioned making that into a trait, but it still hasn’t happened.
I’d still prefer it as a trait(put into a minor maybe) instead of having it on the elite(if that’s all we get) as I actually want the elite to be useful for more than just PvE.

I actually found UA much better than EtD if you’re trying to stack Torment on an immobile target(what you’d need for EtD anyway) because it stacks Torment and Chill while you regen energy(so you’re not just stuck with Autos or forced to swap immediately) and I found it does a decent amount of AoE Power damage if you’re zerker to take care of large groups of weaker enemies.

Funny how both UA and EtD are much better at Power than Condi really.

Alpha.1308:

one gives near perma resistance, another strips 2 boons and is spammable, the elite gives 10% bonus to all stats and moderate torment application, and the heal is fine considering you get 2 healing skills and it’s already a large chunk of your health alone

what else do you want?
5 stun breaks and perma stability?
20 seconds of 3 stacks of burning on a one second cooldown for 10 energy?

it’s just UA that needs to be entirely redone
maybe the others could have small additional perks, i won’t disagree with that, but they’re pretty much fine for their intended goal

Yet you can’t ignore that this is all limited by energy and that energy is shared with your weapon skills.
Then consider that the Heal is a much worse version of Consume Conditions, Pain Absorption has the possibility of getting you killed because Boon Strips exist, meanwhile UA and Embrace the Darkness actually do more for Power builds than for Condi builds.
Consider that Mallyx has two high-cost skills that are quite mediocre, no stun breaks, very little mobility, no blocks or evades if you use it alongside Mace/Axe(which is our only Condition weaponset), a mediocre heal, a lackluster Elite, and a very confused trait line.

Mallyx was re-designed to not need conditions to function, but now he’s incredibly underturned in multiple aspects.
I also find it ironic that the two best skills we have to stack Torment(UA and EtD) require the target to basically not move at all, which means we get less Torment damage, and gap closing costs us all the energy we’d need to stack said Torment in the first place.

Did you have Facet of Nature active?

@BlazeQ: What facets exactly did you have active? If you have Fury, Might, and F2, you wont be able to activate the Elite.

Demented Yak.6105:

Malchior.5732:

Demented Yak.6105:

Are you sure you weren’t hitting multiple opponents?

The absolute maximum that I can seem to get is 8000-9000.

Are you including things like food, banners and other team boosts and infusions and stuff? Any idea on the specific build required to do this?

All modifiers in Invocation, Herald, and Corruption in PvP with both classes being in zerker(and the victim being in Light armor) with Scholar runes, some Might stacking, several conditions(+Resistance), several boons and activating Cruel Repercussions, Unrelenting Assault(I actually used Devastation over Invocation for this one) did well over 20k and CoR on Hammer did well above 15k.

If you somehow manage to do this in an actual fight though, I think you deserve the kills.

Did you mean devastation rather than corruption? Also I don’t think conditions count since those don’t contribute to the damage of UA/CoR. Also, for UA, you can’t activate cruel repercussions for each of the 7 hits.

Otherwise, yeah, that makes sense. Thanks. I think I’ll do the maths sometime later to be sure.

Like Ghotistyx said, I used that trait for +18% damage(I had my friend use Signet of Spite on me)and then I used EtD for a +10% stat boost.
For UA, Cruel Repercussions doesn’t work, which is why I mentioned that I used Devastation over Invocation :L

Demented Yak.6105:

Are you sure you weren’t hitting multiple opponents?

The absolute maximum that I can seem to get is 8000-9000.

Are you including things like food, banners and other team boosts and infusions and stuff? Any idea on the specific build required to do this?

All modifiers in Invocation, Herald, and Corruption in PvP with both classes being in zerker(and the victim being in Light armor) with Scholar runes, some Might stacking, several conditions(+Resistance), several boons and activating Cruel Repercussions, Unrelenting Assault(I actually used Devastation over Invocation for this one) did well over 20k and CoR on Hammer did well above 15k.

If you somehow manage to do this in an actual fight though, I think you deserve the kills.

Rabbitstew.2756:

It’s definitely possible…. IF you’re a full glass spec hitting a full glass spec target with the last explosion on Hammer #2.

Funnily enough, there are other skills in the game that can do this kind of damage in this scenario, and they’re much harder to avoid/counter.

I think you’ll also need Cruel Repercussion active for it to do that much damage.

jmoak.7821:

imo embrace the darkness is too similar to unyielding anguish and the traits make no sense as you said. However i do think pain absorption is amazing and banish enchantment has its uses too. I mean Shiro only has 1 useful skill in pve and is very selfish legend and its “mandatory”

He only has 1 skill that directly increases DPS, but Shiro actually has several useful utilities. The Heal does more damage, the Stun Break is awesome for solos and trash runs, phase traversal is great for moving around the map and gap closing, Impossible Odds is crazy, and Jade Wings is good for dealing with Break Bars.

What does Mallyx have? Banish Enchantment for very specific encounters and EtD for that 10% stat boost.

Azure.8670:

Well

With Mallyx you would take/want condis on you due to the 3% more damage per condi on you.

Also its FAR from worthless in pve, on the flipside, its actually amazing. In fractals, a lot of higher level fracs have opponent gains boons when they are crit hit which is VERY annoying, but Mallyx has one of the BEST boon removals in the GAME. One rev alone can make these fights 3x faster.

You would only want conditions on you if you have those traits which doesn’t make sense when the whole point of the change was to not stockpile conditions on yourself.

Then, you don’t need to go condi to use Mallyx’s Banish Enchantment for that Boon Stripping. You’re just proving that the only thing the New Mallyx has going for him is Banish Enchantment.

I’m not sure on the math, but I think that Condi Rev just isn’t great for PvE currently. The new mobs move around a lot, but several bosses don’t and anything in the old content barely moves either, so your Torment will do pitiful damage and your Poison and Burns are just bonuses really.
If Roy follows up with that trait that increases Torment damage on enemies that stand still, then I guess it’ll be more viable in more places.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Malchior.5732:

No one ever posted any complaints in bwe1 or 2. In fact, the issue was never brought up until bwe3. Then, the base effects were increased for Banish Enchantment and the Heal, but their maximums and everything else actually got nerfed badly.
Now we have an undertuned Mallyx and a trait line with an identity crisis.

Just because you personally didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. There are many more ways to get feedback than just the forums.

Mallyx still had some things that benefit from having conditions on you, like the Heal, and the extra damage trait. However, you aren’t relying on them for effect nearly so much as you were when you got multiple stacks of confusion or torment. Conditions are still something you’ll want to cleanse as a Revenant (and so allies cleaning you won’t hurt your effectiveness). Mallyx just makes them less threatening. Mallyx still offers some pretty strong options, like boon removal and condition application, instead of relying on conditions to make your entire build effective.

I checked everywhere and this was never an issue. It literally came out of the blue band everyone was super confused.
You can’t just assume it was a big issue because a dev said it or if a very small minority agreed AFTER the fact.

You mention Mallyx still has skills that benefit from conditions, but that’s exactly why he’s so bad right now. Nothing has good synergy anymore and Pain Absorption is more of a suicide button than a defense. The Heal is now worse if you have more conditions and we cripple, blind, weakness, and vulnerability along with the ability to power up our traits and skills by ourselves.
All Mallyx really has now is a potential-capped Banish Enchantment. Everything else is pretty much not worth running Mallyx. You’re better off using Shiro for the gap closing, quickness, stun break, and awesome CC.
There was no compensation for the loss of complexity or pressure.

gaspara.4079:

There definitely were complaints before BWE3 because it was changed between BWE2 and BWE3. Unfortunately, by then I don’t think they had time to redo the handful of traits designed around having conditions on you.

So that’s why so many were confused why the changes were made at all? Pages and pages of confused players and then nothing done to make up for the losses.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Group Cleansing did make it awkward, and people did complain about it.

Revenant is naturally weak in condition removal. Mallyx is still strong with more conditions, but now you can load up on Resistance to keep conditions on you while ignoring their effects. However, a significant part of your damage output (stacks of confusion and torment among other things) won’t be affected by allies trying to do what they understand as helping literally everyone besides Mallyx Revs.

No one ever posted any complaints in bwe1 or 2. In fact, the issue was never brought up until bwe3. Then, the base effects were increased for Banish Enchantment and the Heal, but their maximums and everything else actually got nerfed badly.
Now we have an undertuned Mallyx and a trait line with an identity crisis.

Rym.1469:

Right after BWE2 I made a suggestion that part of Unrelenting Assault’s damage should be moved to the last, 7th hit which would not only give it a little bit more counterplay but also impove damage on pimary target in teamfights.

After BWE3 changes, I said that increasing cd by 2s doesn’t fix much. Turns out I am right.

I actually agree with your first change, but concluding that you’re right from the OP, who actually has several facts incorrect, or the few complainers, isn’t exactly a great way to push this idea.

Sylari.9814:

At first glance it seems to be condi focused. But then at the same time it’s got some anti-condition tanking stuff built into it with more healing for each condition on you, pain absorption giving you resistance for absorbing conditions, replenishing despair, demonic defiance, bolstered anguish and pulsating pestilence.

All good stuff, but it seems like it’s hard to build around given that it relies so heavily on fighting an enemy who can condition you.

And then it’s got a smattering of crit stuff in it. Which is fine, but nothing else in the tree seems really fury/crit based.

So am I missing anything here?

Mallyx used to be able to apply Self-Conditions to abuse these traits and skills. Banish Enchantment and Unyielding Anguish would also be more effective if you had a certain number of conditions on you(the former would apply 5 Confusion total and the latter would apply a ton of Torment) and Embrace the Darkness would actually copy all your conditions to nearby foes for 3 seconds every 1 second in a 240 radius.

Why was it changed? Because group cleansing made it awkward apparently even though no one complained about it. As long as the base effect is decent, it shouldn’t have mattered :L

Better CC and gap closing than either of them?

epouvante.7392:

There are some players playing torment so don t touch Malyx torment stacking;). The elite is good with the torment Aoe.

What does this even mean? There were players using Necro Scepter for Physical damage, does that mean it shouldn’t have been changed?
As it stands, EtD is not worth it and you’ll probably apply more conditions by not using it.

This sounds pretty cool and fun.
I’d like to see something like this implemented, however, would it make more sense to swap UA and EtD’s effects? As in, UA is the Condi-flipper and EtD is the Boon-Flipper?
EtD really should be more of the “game-ender” while UA should remain more as a utility skill(40 energy is a ton!).

Loved the video and I agree with mostly everything
Some things I’d like to see changed on Rev, though:

- Hammer #2 does a bit too much damage; every other skill is fine I think.
- Sword, aside from bugginess on #3, is fine IMO. It’s strong in 1v1s, but not impossible to counter and it’s pretty much the only big skill to watch out for in MH sword aside from the autos. #5 definitely needs something to make it more reliable, though. I think increasing the range would make it a lot better.
- Totally agree with Wandelaar on Mallyx, Jalis, and Ventari and their respective specializations.
- Glint Heal totally needs a bigger sign of sorts. It needs to scream “DON’T ATTACK ME”. As is, it can get buried in effects.
- Phase Traversal I think is fine for the most part. I’d rather they just increase the energy cost a bit or lower the range to like 1000 or something, but don’t give it a cooldown. I think it’s about time we get another class with good chasing potential instead of having all these guys running away and resetting every 5 seconds. If I want to use up all my energy to chase someone and then not have my swap available for another 10 seconds, I should be able to.
- I think Shield’s healing should be toned down a bit if you’re not running Healing Power or increase the energy cost of Shield #5.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Malchior.5732:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Malchior.5732:

You can also activate Embrace the Darkness at the same time that you swap Legends and it’ll persist. I don’t know if this is an actual bug, but I assume it is because no other upkeep behaves this way as far as I know.

All upkeeps with a cast time behave like this. You used to be able to do it with the hammers.

The reason why it’s working like this is because, you’re casting the spell, but it hasn’t gone off yet. When you switch legends, the spell is still being casted and then finally goes off.

No, no, I mean persist as in, it never deactivates. I could have EtD going for 50 energy then swap back to Mallyx and still have it active.

I understood that, and I explained why it happens.

And I assume it’s unintended.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Malchior.5732:

You can also activate Embrace the Darkness at the same time that you swap Legends and it’ll persist. I don’t know if this is an actual bug, but I assume it is because no other upkeep behaves this way as far as I know.

All upkeeps with a cast time behave like this. You used to be able to do it with the hammers.

The reason why it’s working like this is because, you’re casting the spell, but it hasn’t gone off yet. When you switch legends, the spell is still being casted and then finally goes off.

No, no, I mean persist as in, it never deactivates. I could have EtD going for 50 energy then swap back to Mallyx and still have it active.

You can also activate Embrace the Darkness at the same time that you swap Legends and it’ll persist. I don’t know if this is an actual bug, but I assume it is because no other upkeep behaves this way as far as I know.

Yea, I don’t feel like playing on my Ele anymore. Just doing it for dungeons every now and then and getting the dailies.
Revenant is too much fun.

I think to myself: “Maybe this trait is actually pretty good”, but that means I have to drop my almost-permanent Stab with Enhanced Bulwark and have the game take control away from me every time I hit 25% health, potentially getting me killed in team fights or interrupting important skills.
If there really is a problem with this, maybe just change the trait altogether. I personally really hate health-based auto-procs.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Artaz.3819:

A heavy class should have stealth (Mesmer, Light Armor; Thief, Medium Armor, Engineer, Medium Armor; Druid, Medium Armor; Heavy, none). This is the best place to put it and even fits the name already.

Embrace the Darkness
Summon the power of the legendary demon to transform into a powerful avatar unseen by the mortals of this plane.

1s cast time
5 energy initial cast
7-10? energy per second upkeep (no other upkeep allowed)
Stealth 1s
Interval 1s

Two ways to play this. Load up opponent with conditions, stealth to delay while conditions tick. Or if energy is available, an actual escape option for Revenant (there isn’t one of any substance right now). It’s far more balanced (read, weaker) than the other stealth options of other classes because it is much shorter duration interval and requires the use of a very limited to Revenant resource.

Support it. You know it’d be used then.

This is an amazing idea. And with the mallyx grandmaster trait you could even pulse burning while in stealth.

A little weird to give Mallyx stealth since you’re going to need to re-apply conditions often so this isn’t terribly useful in a fight(gonna be used solely to disengage) and EtD doesn’t pulse Burning at all. It only applies once until you deactivate EtD and then re-activate it after the ICD is over.

Black Box.9312:

My interest in Mallyx has completely disappeared with the change. Now I could very easily run Shiro/Glint with mace/axe and be just as effective with running a condition build, if not moreso thanks to Impossible Odds.

Yes, the old Mallyx didn’t work well with allies that would cleanse conditions for you, but that’s a bit of a moot point when you think about the fact that it was designed as counterplay from the start. What do you do when you don’t need to resort to your counterplay? You just use the base skills you were planning on using from the beginning.

A single pulsing torment stack is simply not worth the upkeep, and Pain Absorption without the copy from the elite is completely pointless. Mallyx was already very niche as it was. Now there’s not really any sort of incentive to run with it at all.

The only real reason to run Mallyx anymore is Banish Enchantment because it just destroys Eles and other boon-reliant classes. The other skills are kinda lacking.

The Heal is more effective when you have no conditions…but I thought the whole point of it was to be strong when you got loaded up kinda like Consume Conditions without the cleanse, so why was this changed? It’s now weaker than before if you have 3 or more Condis.

Pain Absorption is nice to have when you’re condi-bombed, but a single boon strip will destroy you, especially in team fights. Actually, even without Boon Strip, some conditions last long enough that the Resistance isn’t enough even with Facet of Nature activated. It’s also very expensive.

Banish Enchantment is pretty good, but I don’t like how we lost 2 stacks of Confusion.

Unyielding Anguish is better at stacking conditions and has a decent Snare. I think it could use a range increase or a cost reduction though.

EtD is just not worth it. The only time I ever found it useful was when I knew for sure I was going to get CC-chained by a Chronomancer and he would just let the Torment tick through. Otherwise, even auto-attacking is better or you can just use UA to help stick to a target. Plenty of ideas to change it, but we really need Roy’s input.

kitten widget.9301:

I’ve been doing the same thing with my thief SB#5, SE and IS since ever I don’t really see the problem here…

This.
Difference is that Thief doesn’t need a target and can escape easily, while Revenant can’t do that at all.
Think of it as anti-decap, but once they commit, they’re stuck in there until someone dies.

Vergil.3970:

It would be REALLY cool if they could make BE or Pain Absorption as a new utility somehow react to the torment stacks or boon+torment stacks. Maybe deal damage based on how much torment they have? That would be an awesomely unique burst mechanic that would reward high torment in general. X damage for each stack of torment.

And now you would have a Necro Scepter issue, where you have a Power-based skill on a Condi-based set(it would also be really garbage in team fights where people cleanse our few conditions quickly).
Boon Stripping is good enough for any build to consider and the +10% stats will help out for DPS while UA can Chill them. The issue is that a Power Build probably wont use Mallyx because Shiro and Glint are just better built for it: more mobility, more boons, more CC, and actual stun-breakers.

I think it’s biggest issue is that it costs too much to have any real effect. The old EtD could be used for a few seconds and then it could do it’s job and be turned off quickly. This new one is designed to be camped in and it just doesn’t work well with Mallyx’s high cost utilities or even the semi-high cost of our off-hand weapons.

It needs to either be reverted or have a functionality change.
Maybe make it so it increases all current stacks of an opponent’s conditions by 1 per pulse or make it so it gives your opponent a debuff that doesn’t allow the opponent to cleanse(this especially would make Condi a bit more viable in sPvP, but might be too powerful) or make it so you Corrupt all of your own Boons(and Mallyx with Mace can naturally produce Might and Resistance, so it can sorta work) and then pulse those out.
Something that isn’t covered entirely by UA + BE.

atreyu.9624:

Malchior.5732:

atreyu.9624:

The problem is how many times in a short span of time you are able to use it (if you feel like to spend that energy).

It’s quite ridiculous in my opinion. Either an increased cost, or reduce the range or something.

Then you get to your target with no energy and are forced to swap. I don’t see anything wrong here.

Yeah ofc, it is pretty punishing having to swap to another legend with that free sweet 50% energy to keep fighting normally…

I mean it’s not like you just covered 2400 / 3600 range in a matter of seconds right? Such a harsh tradeoff.

And I only have 50 energy to fight with for the next 10 seconds and no On-Swap Cleanse/Stun-Break.
Not to mention that I’ll have basically no escapes.

atreyu.9624:

The problem is how many times in a short span of time you are able to use it (if you feel like to spend that energy).

It’s quite ridiculous in my opinion. Either an increased cost, or reduce the range or something.

Then you get to your target with no energy and are forced to swap. I don’t see anything wrong here.