Guild Wars 2

There’s really nothing to argue here.
If you can, then there’s literally no reason not to.

Zeroth.7046:

I think it’s worth pointing out that at one point Roy called the changes to Mallyx “Necessary to the health of the game in the future” or something along these lines, on twitter I think. Although the issue he raised up to justify the changes is valid (it was hard to keep up Mallyx’s bonuses when condi cleanses are so prominent in coordinated play), I’m inclined to believe a strong reason to do this is that not only there was this problematic nature of the clash between Mallyx’s playstyle and group cleanses, but also because Embrace the Darkness hardcountered all condi builds in the game, and has no counter outside of… not applying conditions to the Revenant, like BlackDevil pointed out. When you consider that conditions are supposed to be Revenant’s weakness (although I’m hopeful we’ll see more changes in the future to help Revenant not be like Warrior was at launch), it’s easy to see why the old Embrace the Darkness had to be changed, specially in the PvP scene.

Then he can just straight-up say: “EtD was too strong” and tweak it appropriately. It wasn’t even that crazy. It was -8 per turn, required you to use a -35 move beforehand to not die to the same conditions you were copying, was weak to CC/Boon Strip, had a low radius, had a 1s cast time, and the Conditions you copied only lasted for 3 seconds AND were only 1 stack of each.

It was a way to punish these Condi Tanks that just unloaded everything on you at once and then just sat there tanking and kiting all day. If anything, this is a better designed counter than Diamond Skin.

Bovan.9481:

Malchior.5732:

Well all you need is full ascended Zerker and a Sigil of Accuracy(or food) to reach 100% by yourself and if you want to min-max, then being as tanky as you can be while maximizing offense is the way to go. There wouldn’t be any wasted stats if you take a few Valk pieces, but there would be if you make yourself get 100% without considering a Warrior banner, food, sigils, runes, etc.

That’s the thing though. Considering everything you will be exactly on 100% crit chance. You shouldn’t use a sigil of accuracy either because it’s rather weak. Especially because every point of accuracy will be wasted if you get a Warrior banner.

I’ve counted in 70 precision from food, although optimally you would forgo that for Seaweed Salad. This means even in full ascended berserker gear you won’t reach 00% crit chance.

I just don’t get why people are obsessed with valkyrie gear. It’s like saying that 7 of the current classes right now should be using valkyrie gear. The absolute only way I would ever consider valkyrie gear in current content is if I were to be 100% sure I would only play and be in a group all the time with a Warrior and Ranger. And it wouldn’t go any further than 1-2 trinkets.

Uhh, I was saying that IF you were playing completely by yourself and had no guarantee of a Warr Banner and/or Spotter or ANYTHING, then full ascended Zerker with a Sigil of Accuracy is enough to guarantee 100% Crit Chance.
However, when we take into account that we can go for Warr Banners and Spotter, you don’t really need this much to be Zerker; you can drop some pieces and gain a few hundred or thousand HP while still maintaining 100% Crit Chance, high power, etc.

Reaper can do similar with Decimate Defenses and Death Perception, at the cost of being weaker outside of Shroud. Not necessarily ideal, but it’s an option.

And how is it like saying that 7 of the current classes should run it? Which other class can reach 100% with nothing but Fury and a Sigil? Or 25 stacks of Vuln and using their class mechanic?
I don’t understand what the big deal is. If I can still reach 100% easily because I know I’ll have a group, why NOT go with a few Valk pieces?

Booxos.8715:

Ok. I Know that i am an Old grumble but please. Let us support players that came from another MMO. Be a good support healer as rev. You have created great dynamic game where wvwvw Fights bring a lot of adrenaline but tablet is too slow to follow the fight. Would be gr8 to fix it somehow.

They have to make a Healer needed first.
Right now there’s not much need for a dedicated Healer in any game mode.
Ventari can be pretty useful with the projectile blocks though.

BlackDevil.9268:

Hiki.9310:

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.

So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.

But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.

Hiki.9310:

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

I assume this was mostly a WvW issue? In PvP and PvE, I never found the Mallyx skills to be weak with ally cleanses. I still had condis on me from my own skills and if I didn’t, the baseline effects for Mallyx were still decent enough to use without hitting the caps.
EtD still pulsed out a bit of Damage and gave me +10% stats(can be funny running around with 4k Armor + Prot + Retribution traits in PvP) and could immediately “mirror” anything sent my way while the best part of Banish Enchantment is the Boon Strip anyway, Pain Absorption is basically a group cleanse, the heal was so-so, but easy to fix, and Unyielding Anguish was a buggy CC and insanely good for de-capping(can we at least get some sort of CC on this?).

Bovan.9481:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Looking at the stats on gw2skills.net shows that they can only reach 100% if using full assassins, which isn’t very feasible as I’ve explained in my previous post. And building full assassins would mean that you’d go over 100% as well, which is wasted.

You will be at 100% crit chance with full ascended berserker gear, scholar runes (no precision, if strength turns out to be stronger that also doesn’t give you any precision) 70 precision from food, power infusions and a Warrior banner. There is no reason to use any assassins gear unless you are 100% sure you will never play with a Warrior. And if we are talking about optimization I wouldn’t exactly take you serious without the consideration of a Warrior.

MercenaryNote.8506:

If you’re using a max dps build (Let’s just say full zerker in this case), you end up with a ~54% crit chance. This increases to 94% with fury and invocation, and goes to 104% if you’re using maniacal persistence. That extra 4% is wasted and if a warrior brings a banner, that’s 24% wasted.

tl;dr
In the current meta and world, I see no reason to use valkyrie armor unless you are new and still getting the hang of dodging. Berserker gear will give you it’s full effect without wasting any stats.

Well all you need is full ascended Zerker and a Sigil of Accuracy(or food) to reach 100% by yourself and if you want to min-max, then being as tanky as you can be while maximizing offense is the way to go. There wouldn’t be any wasted stats if you take a few Valk pieces, but there would be if you make yourself get 100% without considering a Warrior banner, food, sigils, runes, etc.

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

MercenaryNote.8506:

They’re both pretty bad without each other, but consider this:

Even though Rev can have a high crit chance, you won’t always crit (unless you sacrifice some power for precision i.e. Assassins). This means that your ferocity is useless when you don’t crit.

However, whether you crit or not, you will ALWAYS be using power, If you hit high without crit, you’ll hit higher even with crit, and even higher with ferocity.

So I personally think that ferocity is only useful if you have a high base hit to begin with. better to hit 4k non-crit and 8k crit (Power) than it is to hit 2k non-crit and 5k crit (Ferocity)

Did you consider that Revenant can easily reach 100% Crit Chance?
With Perma-Fury, you can hit the exact number you need to reach 100% when you consider the Warrior’s Banners(you can actually get 100% by yourself pretty easily, but this lets you take a few Valk pieces comfortably).

Otaur.9268:

Gaaroth.2567:

Otaur.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Nice video man.

Please fix this before release…. https://youtu.be/xPRKaMTJDSA?t=4m20s At 4:21 Revenant uses Shiro utility to teleport through walls… He using his 8th ability or his F key 2 times. One teleports him to the wall, second teleports him up into the clocktower without any visible path… Is this supposed to work this way cause “walking through the mist” ???

Could you imagine doing this into WvW keeps / towers??

Well guardians, thieves, mesmers do it all the time now..let us have this power too :P

Those 3 classes also have Path checks I believe… Just like Elementalists Lightning Flash…

Thief has Steal and Infiltrator’s Signet, Guards have Judge’s Intervention and Mesmer can Blink through the Khylo floors and walls just as easily.
This isn’t unique to Revenant.

I actually don’t think the new elite is bad; it’s just kinda dull and has far less strategy to it.

caerulean.4837:

I know everyone’s talking about Mallyx right now but I want to bring up Phase Traversal on Shiro. I’d much rather this be a ground targeted blink, even if that meant the distance would be reduced. A spammable 1200 range teleport to a target followed by a couple of unblockable attacks is admittedly a little insane. And imo a ground targeted version would give the revenant a little more ooc mobility outside of taking herald. Just a thought.

Wouldn’t that just make it more insane? As is, Phase Traversal is about chasing, but has less escape potential(unless you’re targeting a far-away mob in WvW). Your proposal just makes it really good in both scenarios. I think it’s fine right now.

I wouldn’t mind, but people might complain about the insane mobility FGS would give Eles if the cooldowns were swapped. Imagine having an escape tool every 60 seconds as opposed to every 3 minutes.

DiogoSilva.7089:

What about this PvE-focused trait:

- If your target stays stationary for more than 3 seconds, they’ll take full torment damage (or close to full, like, 90%).

Or put that to 2 seconds to make it more viable in PvP as well, when combined with some CC-chaining.

Because players are always moving in pvp, it seems balanced for both modes. Makes torment not-useless versus bosses in PvE, while still requiring some CC play for normal PvP and PvE.

Wouldn’t the current change accomplish the same thing?

Gav.1425:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

• Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

I’m opposed to this change in the same way that I was and still am opposed to the Confusion condition change. The entire point of confusion was that you were punished for skill use and rapid firing skills could get you killed if you weren’t paying attention. The change to making confusion tick in addition to damage-per-skill removes the entire flavor of the skill. With Torment, it appears we’d be doing the same thing. Yes, that makes Confuse/Torment strong in some situations and weak in others. That’s the point, is it not?

It’s more of a PvE change really. Both those conditions are stupid weak there. The confusion change doesn’t remove any flavor either; an Ele spamming skills will still kill himself, it just means that a mob that gets CC-chained still takes a bit of damage from your efforts if you applied confusion.

Kain Francois.4328:

I thinl Lightning Orb is perfect from BWE2. It’s for cheese builds that just like to spam Lightning Whip autoattack, without worrying about element swapping. Sometimes Lightning Orb for burst on recharge.

No changey plz!

Were you attacking golems with it? Actually, I never got it to do good damage on anything…

Got 60 tomes and a scroll and a full set of pvp armor boxes saved up along with several thousand WvW tokens to get myself two full sets of exotics, I got like 8 Weapon boxes(including a few ascended), few hundred gold for trinkets(already got some probable Runes and Sigils banked), 300 laurels for extra cash or possibly for an ascended amulet for fractals, and I got 800 gems ready because I have an idea for a look I want that requires Phalanx armor pieces.

Ye, I prepped a bit. Only wish I have is for a more serious-looking Legendary Mace :l

blokejoe.6590:

i agree with you. hopefully with some with energy management we lack that alot. or could be something about gaining a boon on hit kinda set up.

Energy Management would most likely make the Rune mandatory on Revenant, so that’s highly doubtful as it’s something Roy wanted to avoid in the traits.

That being said, I expect it to be Fury-based.

Traited Reaper’s Mark vs a few Chills/Cripples/etc.

I’d rather take the Block honestly.

meow one twenty.4376:

abc.5790:

I started playing necro to learn its mechanics to better defend my main class and it really shocked me with how slow they are and how they get focused with very little escape options (pvp)

I like that you said this. Most people say how we “dont even need to dodge” or how it is just a reactionary class rather than one where you anticipate your enemies. I think this is not true, but at least holds some truth. We simply can’t afford to waste dodges, so we facetank hits until the important attacks come. It’s sometimes not so easy deciding whether or not an attack is worth a dodge, as opposed to some classes spamming dodges/evades/blinds.

The inability to disengage gets me really heated sometimes. I put a ton of effort into a team fight, res some teammates, and then they all just leave me to die in a 3v1.

Oh, don’t you know? If class X beats me that means class X takes no skill.
Happens in every game.

Although much like the OP, I roll different classes to see what they can do and well, what sometimes feels unfair isn’t always overpowered in actuality. Playing different classes definitely helps you understand what it’s like to get CC-chained into oblivion and watching 20k+ LF drop in a second!
I gotta say, though, playing Necro can be kinda frustrating sometimes if you got a bad team, but also super satisfying when you see the entire enemy team flop over

One class I just can’t seem to fight(or use) properly is Chronomancer. Might be just me, but the dead clone bodies linger around and is incredibly disorienting with all the effects everywhere >.<

Enrif.7359:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Zev.3407:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Why is this thread still being discussed? This from Roy pretty much closed the topic:

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

/thread

because we dont agree with it not being able to work, especially since we dont have any other customizable utilities. Revenant is getting totally screwed in the utility department

no racials(understandable, but just feel like laziness not to include them in a way)

like 8 LESS utilites than EVERY other class, sure we can use 6 in a fight, but other classes can use way more skills in a fight than us.

Agree with it or not, Roy sounded pretty final in that statement.

Also, Revenants are THE only class that can use 6 utilties in a fight. ALL other classes can only use 3. I’m not sure where you’re getting your idea from because it’s flat out false.

Finally, I disagree with you and anyone else that says there’s no customization to skills. You have 5 sets of utilties you can use.

Engineer and Elemenatlist have more weapon skills caused by their utilities (kits, summoned weapons , attunments) , which is, to be honest really powerful (looking at ice bow). sure we can use 2 heal and elite skills. but locked in utiliets we can’t change at all and less overall skills we can’t mix and match. not to be able to mix and match is fair as we can have two legends in fight, yet we are still stuck with less overall skills

You want more skills? Take all the filler Ele ones, please. Actually don’t, I want to main Rev now.
I think people keep thinking more = better, when in fact, having quality skills like Jade Winds, Banish Enchantment, all the Glint skills, Impossible Odds, etc. with low or non-existant cooldowns is MUCH better than having useless sets of utilities like Glyphs.

The only argument you could have is that there’s less individual customization, but that’s more of a balancing factor than anything.

I heard someone say it makes us more predictable? A Cele D/D Ele is predictable. That doesn’t make it any less potent.
Actually, since we have a lot of uses for a lot of our skills, our predictability isn’t even that bad. I think the overall design of the Revenant is pretty darn good and now with weapon swap we can make different builds with different ideas.
For example, Shiro/Glint can do Power or Condi depending entirely on what weapons you decide to run. Jalis/Mallyx can work for a Condi Tank too, or Jalis/Ventari, Jalis/Glint, etc.
Just be creative, a lot of stuff can work.

Wolfric.9380:

Yes. You go out with one setting. In the save zones behind the guards feel free to change.

the chasing example is one of the should not happen things.
also like klick on your target, see buffs, recognise oh condi build, swap in cleaner + resistance before impact.
I don´t like this kind of over flexibility. It works against build diversity/strengthes if you can adapt on the fly.
Alone the example stack might then change weapon makes me thick. Ele is not ment to do this….

Why shouldn’t the chasing example happen? It happens all the time when you try to roam as a Necro. You get chased due to your low mobility and you might need to swap utilities so you don’t get mowed down.

If you’re using food buffs, that IS one of the downsides: you’re revealing information about your build. In fact, you could just use it to bluff if you really wanted. Use a Power build, but use Condi food or vice versa.

Also, why is Ele not meant to do this? Pre-stacking Might isn’t even that great. It’s nice for an initial burst, but it’s not actually that huge of a deal, especially since a lone Ele can’t maintain 25 Might at all.

Your change is treating WvW and PvE as PvP, which it’s not. You’re expected to use this flexibility to overcome any challenges. In PvP it’s different because you will always have 5 people that should work as a team to cover weaknesses or exploit them. This isn’t the case in the other modes where the number of people vary and there are things like Ascended gear and buffs that can make you more powerful than someone in full exotics. You need this flexibility in such a dynamic environment, meanwhile PvP is a lot more static with a limited set of stats you can get, a limited number of players, etc.

EDIT: If you managed to get OoC with just lightning flash, it’s unlikely they would be able to catch you anyway.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Not going to happen… It is pretty easy to break combat, especially as an ele, so giving out of combat weapon swap is a form of buff. Also consider that they didnt include it already, meaning that they consider it OP

So much wrong here…how does giving this to Ele break anything? We can already pre-stack 25 Might by using the Inventory and we can swap on the fly pretty easily. This just makes it a little less annoying, especially for people with Invisible bags.

Your assumption that they considered it OP is ridiculous. Would it be OP on Engi too?
Really? They didn’t give it to us because they probably didn’t consider it; until they directly tell us why or why not,there’s no good reason not to include this for both Ele and Engi.

@Wolfric: So if I’m on my Necro and getting chased by an overzealous zerg/group, I shouldn’t be allowed to swap to Spectral Wall immediately to slow them down? I can’t swap to Spectral Grasp to pull down a Ranger from a wall if he’s being too greedy? Can’t swap to Well of Darkness to help capture a camp?

Wolfric.9380:

The only thing that would be nice is saved builds that i can swap to in a “Homezone”.
I personaly dislike build/equipent change on the fly while running in combat zones. Even out of combat. This should not be possible.

It already is possible. Press I and click the weapons you want to swap to, even when running around. This change just makes it easier and less annoying, especially when you got Invisible bags(like me).

Maybe on top of increasing Torment damage while the enemy stands still, make it useful for PvP and WvW as well by making it(or another trait) modify Torment in a different way. Since the new Mallyx is about Torment, one idea I had was a GM trait(replacing Pulsating Pestilence since it’s an RNG trait that doesn’t fit very well anymore) that applied different conditions on enemies with X amount of Torment stacks while using EtD.

For example, if the enemy you’re using EtD on has, say, 4 stacks of Torment, then also apply Vuln or something. If they have 8, apply Vuln + Something else, and so on.
If you’re fighting a Revenant, you’ll want to keep that Torment low so you don’t get condi-bombed by EtD(which is also very vulnerable to CC) and as the Revenant it’ll encourage you to continue using your skills instead of just sitting in EtD and getting results.

I don’t really need to wait until BWE3 to know that the new Unyielding Anguish is gonna be MUCH weaker(the radius is pretty small) nor do I need it to know that EtD isn’t worth -8 upkeep.

I think the Condi-Copying should just be returned to EtD or at least SOMETHING unique to give it that “Mallyx” feel.
I actually kinda liked a user’s idea of corrupting your own boons(Exclude Resistance and Stab maybe) and pulsing them out to other players. Gives it a very unique feel, can be powerful if timed correctly, etc.
Maybe make it so it removes all of your boons upon activation and then the correct Conditions get pulsed while using EtD.

For example:
Say I have 7 stacks of Might, Swiftness, and Fury. I then activate EtD and for as long as I have it activated, I will pulse out Cripple, Weakness, and Blind. Actually, this would be INCREDIBLY powerful(and it would synergize amazingly) with the Retribution line, probably enough to warrant dropping the Torment pulse and increasing the cost to -10.

Just an idea that might be too powerful with Retaliation and Stab corruptions being a thing :p

Ohoni.6057:

This is too random, Elementalists can already achieve 100% uptime of swiftness very easily. This is still an incredibly boring trait. I already suggested 4 secs of superspeed instead.

I’m actually curious on this, I know Eles have good access to Swiftness, but do Tempests? Does traiting into Tempest, and taking the other options that would make a Tempest as good as possible, reduce some of our other Swiftness options? I know when I was testing Temepest, I want from Fire/Air/Arcane to Fire/Arcane/Tempest, which reduced some of my speed options. An air Tempest would have an abundance of Swiftness, but a non-Air Tempest might not, right? If so, a little redundancy might not be horrible.

What if they juggled some things around, took Speedy Conduit from a minor and made it a Major instead, moving maybe Harmonious Conduit’s Stability to the minor trait (we can all agree that 99% of Tempest will need that, right? Then they took the Speedy Conduit Major and added in the 10% damage buff they just put on Harmonious Conduit, but now “while under the effects of Swiftness.”

This means you could either use kitten top off your Swiftness when using a low-Swift build (ie an Overload build), OR you could use it to buff yourself up if you used a max Swiftness build (ie a more aura/Air build).

You already get a good amount of Swiftness from Arcana line, then there’s the Air line, then there are the weapon skills themselves(Staff Air #4, Updraft, etc.) and THEN there’s Signet of Air, and THEN there’s Glyph of Elemental Harmony, and the list goes on.

If you want Swiftness on Ele/Tempest, there are already plenty of ways to get it.

Zenith.7301:

thewaterguy.4796:

Same here…they’ve really gutted what made Mallyx so unique and interesting and just turned him into a poor man’s necromancer condition build…

You do realize necromancer is one of the worst condition builds out there, right? You might want to cry about engineers instead.

He might just be saying Mallyx is worse than Necro’s condi build…kinda exaggerated, but well, EtD kinda got turned into an AoE Mace Auto-attack, so yea.

Alekt.5803:

No thanks. Go away d/d eles. You guys will only nerf Sceptre and Staff.

What does this have to do with D/D Eles?
What If I just want to swap from my S/D build to Staff or whatever while running around in WvW? It’s just a QoL change.

Morfedel.4165:

I have to say, as much as I hate to, that the changes to Mallyx are probably necessary. I mean, think about it: in order for it to work, it requires that you have conditions on yourself.

And you are no longer applying condis to yourself – which is actually a good thing, because yes, people in groups were doing aoe condi clears that were washing off your own condis. That sucked.

I LOVED the feel of the old mallyx… but it was just too situational, on a class where you cant change your elites, only your entire skill set.

So, while I regret the necessity because it was so cool, it just had too many problems when in a group where others might be doing aoe condi cleansing… and without the self condis, it was much less likely the condi duplication would be effective in a skill set where you can’t change any of the skills.

It seems like this would is mostly an issue in larger fights or organized PvP where heavy cleansing takes place.
How about allowing Pulsating Pestilance copy conditions while you use EtD instead of hoping your opponent hits you and you getting lucky or maybe allow EtD to return conditions once applied? That might be a little too much like Necro(Mallyx killed both players through condi, Necro feeds off it and/or returns it), but I just don’t want to see Mallyx lose all his flavor while also losing a ton of his strengths.

A lot of changes that are a step in the right direction, however, why was Speedy Conduit increased to 8s? The issue was more that Hardy Conduit(is that the one that gives Prot?) only lasted 3s. Whatever, still some good changes here, but the Stability is going to be pretty much mandatory, might be better for it to be a Minor skill.

I kinda have to agree. It was already difficult to maintain due to the large upkeep + only applying a few seconds of Resistance when traited, but now it seems incredibly weak.
A single stack of Torment every second in a small AoE sounds pathetic as is, but not copying conditions not only removes a lot of flavor from the skill, but also a chance to punish Condi Bombing or allowing the Revenant to Condi-bomb back.

I really hope they either revert this or make it more powerful, because it seems far too costly for just a few stacks of Torment in such a small radius. The +10% stats is nice, but not the primary reason of the skill.

Jski.6180:

Laraley.7695:

Jski.6180:

Laraley.7695:

Jski.6180:

Laraley.7695:

Jski.6180:

Ryou.2398:

Jski.6180:

Ryou.2398:

zebbers.6139:

I really love all these people that come and say:

‘The elite spec for this class changes it up. It’s not the usual faceroll d/d cele ele or staff ele’

No kitten, really? That’s a shock. I’m pretty sure they stated at the start of the elite specs that they’re meant to open up new options and roles for classes. That is exactly what they’re doing. Tempest is a different feel .

So after the expac all there builds will be on even ground? Viable?

For specialize rolls yes. Tempest will be the end all be all support roll between ele and tempest (druid may turn out to be a better healer we do not know for sure though).
This sounds like the way it should be by the name it self “elite specialization” becuse they specialize in a set roll that the base class may cover to a point but not all in as these spec do.

Then why are people complaining? Now all 3 specs will be viable unless they just want to use lightning for dps which I can understand that.

Because it did not get a sword and its not the dps spec its realty that simple.

No, because tempest is not only what people wanted and ele lacked, but also because it’s complete garbage.

So still yes its not dps and it dose not have a sword as ppl wanted.
It dose its job of support well very well to the point of being the first true healing support in GW2.

No, it hasn’t really. You’re the only one I’ve seen defending the spec and I frankly don’t know why. You only take what you want to hear from your comments. If the spec was actually decent then people wouldn’t complain so much. Giving a class that has a close range support spec another close range support spec isn’t really opening up many possibilities, is it? But there’s really no point talking to you, all you do is saying the same old stuff over and over and totally ignoring what everyone says.

No ppl would complain if its not just want they want. If it was a mace tank class ppl would complain that it was not dps. If it was dps ppl would complain that its not just the type they want (most of the time ppl wanted a thf like dps from tempest all though a stealth-less thf what tempest would most likely be like with a sword simply dose not work and ppl would ask for a stealth on tempest lol).

Tempest is a true support and it only can support IF that not what your looking for you should not try to forces it into a roll like dps becuse its a waist of every one times. GW2 in the FOM is all about dps and if it dose not dps harder then the base class then its not useful in there view.

I literally just told you that the reason why I don’t like tempest is not only the fact it’s not anything new, but also because it’s complete trash. Could you please read that over and over till you understand that? Cause I’m really getting tired of you making up reasons why I don’t like something.

Too bad it sucks at support as long as you don’t play the same old d/d build but just with tempest which makes you lose damage. So much for something new. And in the long run you’ll probably do worse than regular d/d.

Its about D/WH for full support the d/d tempest plays a lot like the old d/d ele back in the day just less dmg but more ability to make up for it.

What ability? What do you mean old D/D Ele back in the day with less damage? Do you mean it’s weaker than when we only had 14/70 points to play with in our traits? As in, it’s a garbage spec? I’d believe you then.
Or do you mean it’s just a D/D Ele that just has less damage? I see no way to make it up because it has less worthy traits than an Earth/Water/Arcana Ele. Outside of Water Overload, none of the Overloads really support your team either. Fire Overload does give the group Might, but the range is so bad and the duration is so low that you’re better off just blasting your own fire fields.

Auras aren’t very good group support(even Magnetic Aura is kinda worthless here since it needs to hit the actual players instead of say, a wall or a giant dome) and you can’t take all the lines you’d want with Aura traits without crippling yourself and the healing you can output. You’d have to take Air/Earth/Tempest which means no Water line and even then, your Aura up-time isn’t great as you’d rely entirely on Shouts to support your team in any way. Taking Water/Earth/Tempest? That’s just a Healer which is pretty useless in like 90% of the game, assuming it’s even made useful in HoT, which isn’t a given.

Best thing Tempest can do is break the game with Herald’s Facet of Nature + Warhorn Fire #4.

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Ara.4569:

nearlight.3064:

Also the only thing eles are particularly weak to is chill, because it kittens up their water attunement swap cooldown, which destroys them. However, this weakness is easy to mitigate simply because eles have a lot of condition removal. Stop drop and roll also exists, but can be wasted by burns or Ally cleanse procs.

What a convoluted way to say ele has no weakness.

You think so? Well-timed chill often leads to the ele death. Also, lets please stop saying ‘’eles have lots of condition removal’’. No, d/d ele has.

Specifically Water + 3x Cantrips. D/D Ele itself only has 1, while Staff has…however long Healing Rain is.

Lets be clear about this, d/d ele term is used to describe the current meta d/d spec.

Just the fact people completely leave out stuff like fresh air shows how unviable it is.

I’m just making it clear, because a Staff Ele using Water line + 3x Cantrips actually has more cleanses.

Not that it matters, a Survival Ranger has a billion cleanses but no one complains about that one because it’s a Ranger.

Laraley.7695:

Ara.4569:

nearlight.3064:

Also the only thing eles are particularly weak to is chill, because it kittens up their water attunement swap cooldown, which destroys them. However, this weakness is easy to mitigate simply because eles have a lot of condition removal. Stop drop and roll also exists, but can be wasted by burns or Ally cleanse procs.

What a convoluted way to say ele has no weakness.

You think so? Well-timed chill often leads to the ele death. Also, lets please stop saying ‘’eles have lots of condition removal’’. No, d/d ele has.

Specifically Water + 3x Cantrips. D/D Ele itself only has 1, while Staff has…however long Healing Rain is.

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Shadowflare.2759:

The elementalist class as a whole is not strong. There’s only one very specific build out there that is strong, or even overpowered, and that’s the D/D celestial arcane/water cantrip elementalist. It’s no secret that this build got a huge boost from the specialization change, but almost every other build for elementalists are still subpar.

I disagree with this. I use a none meta build everywhere and I do very well. It uses scepter btw.

Define “very well”. Do you play ranked PvP? Do you play on higher tiered WvW maps? Do you use it in organized groups in PvE? Or do you mean that you just get by with it? It’s “viable”? Because outside of Celestial S/D and Cele Staff(which aren’t exactly perfect alternatives), I don’t think there’s much else to pick from if you want to not get destroyed in PvP and Scepter definitely isn’t being picked in PvE.

All that being said, I completely agree with BlackBeard and also, I think the Elementalist’s reign is almost over. Not only did they say they were going to make some changes(I expect the worst), Revenants running Mallyx will be a pretty rough match-up. Easy Confusion/Chill application and tons of Boon Stripping, multiple ways to mitigate D/D’s damage(without the Might stacks, it relies entirely on Burning, which they can handle easily if they’re using Mallyx), tons of mobility if they run Shiro(good luck escaping with RtL), etc.

Harddrive.2738:

The key features of revenant is the control of the mists and its energy bar.

If they did anything it would likely be:

1. faster legend swapping, maybe with a trigger effect or on hit effect
2. lowers energy costs on skills (fixed or %)
3. lowers upkeep energy consumption by 1-2(energy bar not per skill), it would not increase your recharge rate. If you had fury facet on, its like its only 1 upkeep, or swiftness is 0 upkeep.
– This would let you have glint elite on (upkeep 5) and still recharge energy bar slowly or add swiftness/healing without consuming your energy bar. It would effectively allow you to keep your skills going a little bit longer.

Roy specifically mentioned not having traits that affect energy directly; why would they make a rune that does this? It would just become mandatory for the Revenant.

Demented Yak.6105:

Gaaroth.2567:

BlazeQ.1095:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Roy, I’m not sure how much of a team you have with making the Revenant, but please be sure to pass on this post of thanks to them if you do. I’ve edited the first post to include them. With you being the face of the Revenant development, sometimes it’s easy for us to forget your team members.

This 100%

200% !!!

300% !!!!!!

400% !!!!!!!!

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tzozef.9841:

What the Tempest should have been
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/What-the-Tempest-should-have-been/first#post5485180

No.

“I’m not gonna say why, just no, because I have no counter-arguments.”

It’s funny because Jski is constantly arguing against Tempest changes, but here he didn’t even try. That being said, I think his idea for the Tempest would have been infinitely cooler than what we have now; OP? Oh yes. 4x Healing Rain + Geyser? 4x Phoenix? 4x Obsidian Flesh? Crazy, but at least it’s a million times better than what we have now and doesn’t go against all of our trait lines.

If it becomes stronger then the ele class then yes. This is about tempest being a support class not being an support dps tank that simply is a power creep version of ele. If you truly like the ele class then you too would see the danger of making the elite spec to powerful just so you can play something “new.”

But Tempest sucks at being Support. All it does is Heal and you keep saying we want power creep; we don’t, we just want something good.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

runeblade.7514:

What about Fresh Air? Its not even viable anymore.

Just because there are better builds, does not mean, Fresh Air builds are nonexistent. So “ele has no burst” is wrong. They can burst if build for it, thats all i wanted to say.

Does it matter then if that burst is actually really garbage and barely does enough damage anymore? Yea, TECHNICALLY it’s burst, but it’s so bad that it’s hardly worth considering.

Jski.6180:

Tzozef.9841:

What the Tempest should have been
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/What-the-Tempest-should-have-been/first#post5485180

No.

“I’m not gonna say why, just no, because I have no counter-arguments.”

It’s funny because Jski is constantly arguing against Tempest changes, but here he didn’t even try. That being said, I think his idea for the Tempest would have been infinitely cooler than what we have now; OP? Oh yes. 4x Healing Rain + Geyser? 4x Phoenix? 4x Obsidian Flesh? Crazy, but at least it’s a million times better than what we have now and doesn’t go against all of our trait lines.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

runeblade.7514:

Elementalist don’t have the lockdown + burst.

They have high pressure, high sustain. But they cannot 100-0 in a few seconds.

Fresh Air says “hi”.

I guess you could melt someone in a few seconds with Fresh Air if they’re complete glass and don’t react, but without Bolt to the Heart and the loss of damage in Air(remember how we don’t have as many modifiers now), I don’t think there’s any reason to play a FA Scepter Burst Ele anymore, especially since Mesmers do literally everything better in that regard.

bladex.9502:

Malchior.5732:

bladex.9502:

Malchior.5732:

bladex.9502:

You can use lightning flash while channeling churning earth and teleport to your opponent, if you time this right you can make it hit just as you teleport for huge burst damage.
Its also useful when someone is downed to prevent their teammates from ressing.
Churning Earth is a pretty useful skill in pvp if you know how to use it, but it takes some skill, and stupid oponents, to pull off

But if we assume stupid opponents, then a lot of our crappy skills(in PvP) are suddenly usable, like using Glyph of Storms on-point to stack Burning or letting us land Deep Freeze >.>

If you use the lightning flash technique its pretty difficult for an opponent to anticipate a dodge, especially when they don’t play ele themself and don’t know that its possible to move the channel with you when you blink

You can always count it down(most good players know how long it takes to channel) so at best you’re just making them waste a dodge or just gonna eat a CC.

Lets be honest tho, how many actual good pvp players are you gonna face in an average unranked queue.
Most people are just gonna walk out of the AoE circle because it has a 3 second channel, so no need to waste a dodge.
You can abuse that by lightning flashing right on top of them.
On my celestial build lightning flash crits for around 2500 and churning earth around 5000-7500, now imagine that on a purely offensive orientated build, that hurts.

By your reasoning good players can dodge any animation and count down any channel, but in reality people aren’t gonna dodge everything you throw at them

See, you should never consider bad players when talking about skills, because those same players that don’t dodge Churning Earth are also the ones that die to other dumb stuff and constantly whine about it instead of learning. They’re the same people dying to random crap builds, the same people that never rotate, the same people blindly blaming the team and not themselves for going far every single life and constantly dying against a competent team.

I’m not terribly great at PvP, but the people I fight against will never let me cast Churning Earth, let alone land it. So shouldn’t we consider these good players that actually know what they’re doing?

bladex.9502:

Malchior.5732:

bladex.9502:

You can use lightning flash while channeling churning earth and teleport to your opponent, if you time this right you can make it hit just as you teleport for huge burst damage.
Its also useful when someone is downed to prevent their teammates from ressing.
Churning Earth is a pretty useful skill in pvp if you know how to use it, but it takes some skill, and stupid oponents, to pull off

But if we assume stupid opponents, then a lot of our crappy skills(in PvP) are suddenly usable, like using Glyph of Storms on-point to stack Burning or letting us land Deep Freeze >.>

If you use the lightning flash technique its pretty difficult for an opponent to anticipate a dodge, especially when they don’t play ele themself and don’t know that its possible to move the channel with you when you blink

You can always count it down(most good players know how long it takes to channel) so at best you’re just making them waste a dodge or just gonna eat a CC.

bladex.9502:

You can use lightning flash while channeling churning earth and teleport to your opponent, if you time this right you can make it hit just as you teleport for huge burst damage.
Its also useful when someone is downed to prevent their teammates from ressing.
Churning Earth is a pretty useful skill in pvp if you know how to use it, but it takes some skill, and stupid oponents, to pull off

But if we assume stupid opponents, then a lot of our crappy skills(in PvP) are suddenly usable, like using Glyph of Storms on-point to stack Burning or letting us land Deep Freeze >.>

bladex.9502:

Malchior.5732:

bladex.9502:

Staff water autoattack is pretty useless, Lightning surge is a DPS loss, Eruption has no in combat use (or well, blasting your lava font could be seen as a use, but thats essentially also what churning earth does), Shatterstone is useless, do I need to go on?

Yea, those are all ELEMENTALIST weapon skills.

Read your post wrong I guess, my bad.
Can’t think of any other classes with skills that are completely useless in combat (staff guard maybe?), but those classes don’t have 40 skills available on their weapons.
Elementalist weapon skills aren’t only made for offensive uses, thats why there are 40 of them

Yea, but even the ones you mentioned have SOME use. Water Auto-attack can self-sustain decently enough if that’s your goal, Lightning Surge does have a Blind even if it’s crappy, Shatterstone stacks Vuln, etc.
Not terribly useful, but at least they have some small niche uses instead of being completely useless in every fight like Churning Earth, except maybe Overloads.

bladex.9502:

Staff water autoattack is pretty useless, Lightning surge is a DPS loss, Eruption has no in combat use (or well, blasting your lava font could be seen as a use, but thats essentially also what churning earth does), Shatterstone is useless, do I need to go on?

Yea, those are all ELEMENTALIST weapon skills.

bladex.9502:

Malchior.5732:

bladex.9502:

Not everything in this game is designed for PvP alone

It’s not good for PvE either. It’s only use right now is pre-stacking, which isn’t really necessary as it’s mostly used by organized groups just to squeeze in extra damage before they can get their perma-25 stacks going.

Not every skill has to have a use in combat.
And you don’t even use it in organised groups, in organised groups other people blast your firefields as well so a simple dragons tooth + phoenix is usually enough, especially if there is a second ele.
Its useful for prestacking 25 might in a solo setting, and I don’t see a reason why it should be changed, you have 19 other skills that you can use if you don’t like it

What skill doesn’t have an in-combat use? I can think of Churning Earth, Overloads, and I can’t think of any non-Elementalist weapon skills that are completely useless for both PvP and PvE.

bladex.9502:

Not everything in this game is designed for PvP alone

It’s not good for PvE either. It’s only use right now is pre-stacking, which isn’t really necessary as it’s mostly used by organized groups just to squeeze in extra damage before they can get their perma-25 stacks going.