To OP, as much as it sounds like a good idea, I think it would be a crazy nightmare.
A better solution:
-Organize a sub-community that is against gear grind
-As a group, pick a low-pop server and migrate to it
-Form a guild (or guilds, there are probably enough of us)
-As a guild, simply agree that “x” tier of gear is the stat cap. We as a group will not equip items that are higher than this stat cap. X would probably be exotic, but we might even go with “Rare” as the tier cap.
-Items that are higher than tier cap could be used for: skins, to sell, non-combat effects (eg a larger back pack), mini-pets , etc
-The premise of the guild is to cut grind out of the loop. By agreeing to have a tier cap on equipment, we are then free to explore the content we enjoy playing. Endgame content will rely on more skillful play instead of just getting bigger gear stats.
-It will also be to promote anti-elitism. We are seeking challenge for the sake of challenge, not the next carrot. Since we aren’t seeking the next carrot, we are free to run the content that we truly enjoy and be welcoming to players who are merely “at level” or the dungeon.
-Similarly, we would encourage experimenting with different builds and playing alts.
There are a few negatives:
-This will almost certainly result in being gated out of content (such as lower levels of FotM), but we accept this as a compromise. It may even make purchasing expansions pointless.
-This will rely on the honor system. People could cheat by going for higher gear, and there is no mechanical way to stop it.
-This guild will probably not be for people interested in WvW, since self-imposing a tier cap will make us uncompetitive with those who do not self-impose this restriction
The point is to organize, in game. We are NOT going to get a solution from ArenaNet, they have already made their intent clear. This requires a solution within the community.
(edited by Merthax.5172)
Stats do add up and give players an advantage. That is besides the point tho. The whole point of the new armors as well as their aquisition isn’t just for the dungeon they added higher stats to them giving players who have done the grind an advantage over others. This type of end game content flies in the face of their manifesto, essentially they lied to the public and to their players when they made this move. They can no longer be trusted.
If you REALLY believed ALL level 80’s would be equal in endgame, in an MMO, then you fooled yourself. That’s just not the way MMO’s work. And if they did work that way, they would be “arcade” like league of legends, that’s some ppl’s preference, but I think they are looking in the wrong genre for a game then.
Please name some of these games. I’m not looking for DotA-based games like LoL…the MOBA genre really isn’t my cup of tea.
I’m really looking for something along the lines of the original Guild Wars. I even have a thread asking for game suggestions for us GW1 vets.
waah waah I love playing the game but the moment Anet attaches a reward to something it becomes work.
The problem is that it funnels you into playing content in a certain order. The problem is that it funnels you into playing the same content over and over again ad nauseum.
Instead of choosing the content that you enjoy most, you are pushed to playing that which gives you the reward.
MMO or not is just a genre label. Whether GW1 is or is not a true MMO is just a matter of semantics and shouldn’t make any difference.
While horizontal progression may require less time commitment from players, it certainly doesn’t imply less skill. If anything, it requires more skill since you can’t simply get stronger gear (either grind for it now, or grind for it when expansion comes out) and faceroll a dungeon.
Also, horizontal progression does not mean all gear is the same. It means selecting the proper gear for your build and the area you are going to. It means that you have to make tradeoffs. In Guild Wars 1, you could choose major runes to get stronger attributes at the price of a big chunk of health.
LOL, some of you are so dramatical.
What do you want? To hit 80 and have nothing to do? You want to eat the carrot on the stick as soon as you roll your toon?! People like to feel like their character continues to grow past level cap, it’s called end game.
If you don’t like progression and time sink, MMO’s are clearly not for you.
I’m not being “dramatical” (sic), I’m asking for suggestions on new games that would fit my tastes better. I expected Guild Wars 2 to fit this paradigm since it was sold as a successor to Guild Wars. They said that they were defying the standard MMO formula.
What I don’t understand is WHY GW2 went this path. With no subscription, the incentive of the developer to include grind is gone.
I like the ability to reach a maximum statistic power, and then meet harder and harder challenges…not through increased statistic power, but by smarter builds and more skillful gameplay.
Grind has the following negatives:
-A wider range of character power means a narrower range of content that is applicable to your character. You are pushed down a linear path instead of having a wide world open to you.
-Discourages experimenting with different builds that will require different gear
-Discourages rolling alts to play different professions. You are effectively locked into developing one character, unless you have huge amounts of free time.
-Makes it difficult to get friends to join you, since it will take a long time for them to attain the same level of power that you have
-Punishes you for taking a break from the game, because you will fall behind
-Feels more like work than actual fun.
We all knew that Guild Wars 2 wouldn’t just be a remake/update of the original Guild Wars, but it seems that many of the tenets of the original game are slowly being discarded.
Short of returning to the original Guild Wars, what games would one suggest? What games are similar?
Ahhhh… bye!?
It is sickening the amount of threads like this!!!
“I don’t have my goldies and shinies… I want them!!! And I want everything to be easy and for me to have it all!”Look, I played GW1 for 6 years and never managed to have enough money to buy an obsidian armor! AND??? Are we all imature spoiled brats here? Yes, as you say… Let the flaming begin!
Because with all this pointless threads, this game will not improve!!!
False comparison. Obsidian armor didn’t give you a performance/stat upgrade over basic max lvl armor. It was a choice for cosmetics, prestige, and (IIRC) Hall of Monuments.
I don’t think ANYONE on here is complaining about things like that.
A compromise:
Ascended gear given equivalent stats as exotics, but also given infusion slots. Infusions slots function ONLY inside the Ascended dungeon(s). They do not function in WvW, open-world PvE, or non-ascended dungeons. Stat cap for those who want it, vertical gear progression for those who want it.
As for horizontal progression being boring, no it isn’t. Horizontal progression can mean the introduction of new stats to give players more variety in choosing gear. Horizontal progression means I can roll an alt or change my character’s spec and still acquire max stat gear in a reasonable amount of time. Horizontal => variety, vertical => locked into one progression.
The problem is, a lot of player actually do want gear with higher stats. However, this form of reward isn’t really new content, just more of the same but 2.0 version. They should look at how the handled new content in GW1 – that game seemed to have it going on.
Adding new stats on gear to provide a variety of gear would have been better than adding new gear that supersedes existing gear. Even adding gear with bigger numbers, but paired with penalties to offset those bigger numbers, would have been interesting.
Agreed with OP.
The question is…what should those of us who enjoyed GW1 play now? Are there any comparable games out now? GW2 is not a true sequel to GW1.
Hello Blizard, are you some how mind controling the ANet live team?
Assuming control
Quit feeding the troll
I created this thread to understand what you guys are really looking for. GW1 had these new armor upgrades (I forget the name). Just because they weren’t in the initial GW2 game doesn’t mean there will be a treadmill. It just means they have introduced it earlier than expected so that they can create the dungeons you are looking for. GW1 was an MMO, it just played differently than any other because the entire game was mostly an instance. What made the endgame of GW1 so great? Honest question.
What made the endgame of GW1 so great was that your character didn’t just arbitrarily get more powerful, which meant that 90% or more of the game was tuned to be in line with one baseline of power. They didn’t have to make encounters easier than they should have been because “Oh, most people will still be in Rares/Exotics”, and they didn’t have to try to constantly hit a moving target with game balance by making content that was appropriately difficult for the new maximum, which is 15% better than the old maximum, only it also has to be doable for people in the old old maximum…
GW1 was a masterpiece. It wasn’t a perfect game, but it is one of my all-time favorite games. I have more gameplay hours in GW1 than in any other game.
The low level cap and the lack of gear treadmill meant that the vast majority of the game content was designed for the same level of power. Sure, certain areas were more difficult than others, but success hinged on choosing proper builds and developing skill as a player. One you reached max level, you could reasonably go to any area in the game. Even starter areas could be revisited thanks to hard mode.
Selecting gear was like choosing a trait spec. You had to make choices like more health, more energy, or more attributes. You want that +3 rune to an attribute? Sure, but it will cost you a big chunk of health. Getting max stat gear was easy, which encouraged trying out different builds and even playing with different professions. Gear grind locks you not only into one character, but also limits you on builds for a character. Variety = exciting, locked into 1 character/build = boring.
Additionally, I found the skills to be more interesting in general. Skills mostly had shorter cooldowns (I don’t remember any longer than 60s, most were 30s or less), so each skill could see more use. Energy management was used instead of really long cooldowns, meaning that you could use skills besides “1” with more frequency. Many skills also require certain conditions to be met in order to have any/full effectiveness. This meant more intelligent use of skills was required.
In Guild Wars 1, a new character could be made, leveled to 20, given the skill bar of your choice, and outfitted with appropriate max-stat gear in a relatively short amount of time. The one (unfortunate) area where grinding increased power was PvE skills that were linked to faction reputation.
Even without vertical progression, did I get bored? The answer is a resounding no! Since almost all the game content was designed for the same power level, I had a huge number of gameplay options. Vanquishing, hard mode missions, and yes even grindy tasks to achieve titles.
What does League of Legends have to do with Guild Wars 2? I don’t get it. Besides, in the brief time that I played, I think you DO have to actually level up your account. Therefore, skill aside, you do not start out on equal footing from a “stats” perspective as other players. I don’t know how long it actually takes to get to maximum stat power, so maybe it isn’t a grind.
And I really dislike MOBAs. You want to talk about elitism in a game. Play this way or else!
(edited by Merthax.5172)
+1 to OP.
This would be the best of both worlds. Gear progression for those who want it, but the bonus is only effective in specific areas designed for the ascended gear. For all other purposes, the exotic gear cap persists.
I think I’m out. I like to play alts, and GW2 out of the box was quite friendly to this style of play with easy to reach max level and BiS items. Gear grind increases the gap between casual and hardcore players, but it also punishes alt players.
I think the only way this would turn out ok is if the Ascended gear can only be used in the Ascended dungeons. This would contain the gear treadmill and keep it out of WvW, open world PvP, and the non-Ascended dungeons.
(edited by Merthax.5172)
I don’t get the point of this, the game has no subscription. If a small segment blasts through the content and moves on, I say let them go. Gear treadmills are for sub-based games.
I just want to be able to make a squad of “finished” lvl 80s. For me, the game doesn’t truly begin until a character is max level and outfitted in the best gear for the build that I’m using. Additional progression is through improving my (the player) skill so that I can tackle progressively more difficult challenges.
Well, looks like this will break my GW2 addiction. I do not do gear treadmills.
The gear treadmill is why I quit playing WoW, and the lack of treadmill was one of many things that made GW1 such a great game. An intelligent gearing system should be between making choices: more health or more damage, etc, not about having gear that supersedes other gear.
A gear treadmill based on stat superiority will RUIN this game. Bring back titles, more skins, prestige items, new item stats that offer more variety and horizontal progression.
Gear treadmill has a few negative effects:
-Hardcore players will presumably have more skill due more practice. Giving them stat superiority further widens the gap
-Restricts end-game content by introducing a “gear check.” Higher gear tiers will also remove challenge from areas designed for lvl 80s with merely exotic gear. Thus lvl 80 content becomes stratified
-Punishes players who like to play alts. Without gear treadmill, GW2 seems to be quite alt-friendly. I do not want to be locked into playing one character.
The problem I have with DS is that it is a static transform. I can’t modify the skills on it to fit my selection of skils or traits better. It tries to be a one size fits all. It is also too integral to the balance of the necromancer to simply ignore using it.
As DS is now, it’s main use seems to be for triggering traits keyed to entering/exiting DS and for absorbing a big hit. If that’s how it is intended to be used, then some type of life force shield ability would be a lot more fluid than a transform. Maybe a shield that takes damage to life force and triggers traits the same as DS does now. Leave the UI and skill bar alone, or at least just replace the weapon set skills (give us a slot 5) and leave 6-10 alone.
On second thought, I think I will give necro a second shot and just conceptualize DS as nothing more than a fancy shield ability. DS looks like one of those abilities that doesn’t really become worthwhile until supported by traits.
(edited by Merthax.5172)
I liked the necro in the original GW and was initially very interested in playing one in GW2. From a flavor and concept standpoint, I like the class.
I’ve been toying around with necro in GW2, but the one thing that is keeping me from really latching on is the profession’s mechanic: deathshroud (DS). Profession mechanics are essential to proper and effective use of a class, so I deem this as a good enough reason to eschew a class. Similarly, I’m not playing a ranger because I’m not interested in the pet mechanic.
There are already plenty of threads about DS and what people don’t like about it. I’ll acknowledge that I’ve really only previewed the necro, but I realize that I don’t want 80 levels of DS. It seems to be very intrusive to the gameplay of the class. Different strokes for different folks, it seems to work well for some people.
I may revisit necro after bug fixes and if they ever change lifeforce/DS. As it is now, the implementation of the profession mechanic puts necro off my roster.
Pistols, allowed as main and off-hand
I would like to see warriors have a 1-handed ranged option. This would allow all sorts of main/off combos, including mixing melee and ranged.
Without adding new weapons to the game itself, the only non-caster styled weapons that warriors don’t get are: daggers, shortbow, and torch. I think pistol has the most potential.
Why would casting time be limited only to spells? In GW1, all types of skills had casting times. This even included gasps attack skills.
One very important aspect of GW2 is that it is not a subscription-based game. As such, the developers don’t have the same incentive to introduce carrot on a stick gear and leveling treadmills.
As Marnick stated above, the lack of treadmill (both gear and leveling) is one of the things that kept me interested in GW1. I played content for the sake of enjoying the content, not because it was the content that I was shoehorned into due to level. Increasing the level cap will reduce the amount of content that is applicable for end-game.
I would really hope that the level cap is NOT increased from 80. New added content should simply be added as lvl 80 content. Increasing the level cap is just going to increase leveling/gear treadmill, make the game less alt-friendly, and allow layers to out-level current endgame areas.
One of my favorite things about GW1 was the low level cap and how the majority of the game was end-game. The journey from 1-20 was really there to learn how to use your profession and progress the campaign.
Expansions should focus on more lvl 80 content, new utilities skills, new elite skills (these seem to really be lacking), and new weapons. A new race(s) would be nice too.
(edited by Merthax.5172)
PvP/PvE splits are a good thing if not overused as a shortcut for balancing. I think it is important to recognize that certain mechanics are much more effective in PvP while others are more effective in PvE. They are very different styles of gameplay and need to be treated as such.
Looking at GW1, how mesmers were a top-tier class in PvP but suffered as a PvE class.
Monsters are brute force with more hitpoints/toughness and hard-hitting attacks. They don’t kite, don’t use movement the same way as humans, and aren’t as adaptable. They also don’t use teamwork to synergize.
I’ve rolled a necromancer but have been quite hesitant to play it. Thematically and stylistically, I like the idea of a necromancer, but I just can’t wrap my head around death shroud (DS). I find this mechanic to be clumsy and very intrusive to playing the weapon sets/skill bar that I have chosen, yet it is too integral to the balance of the class to simply ignore using it. It really feels like it has been shoehorned in.
The problems I see with DS, as others have mentioned:
-Change in UI
-Loss of skill slots 6-0
-Skills granted during DS aren’t that compelling to use, and do not play nicely with many builds
With the exception of the elementalist, other profession mechanics add to the power or versatility of the class without compromising the base build. The elementalist attunements affect the weapon slots, but slots 6-0 remain in tact. In addition, elementalists don’t have to fill up any meter or meet any type of condition to switch to or maintain their attunement of choice.
How to make DS more friendly:
- Leave UI intact, use lifeforce health bar, and only switch skills 1-5 while leaving 6-0 alone
-Have DS leave all skills alone. Use lifeforce bar and add boons that are active for the duration. These boons could be determined by traits
-Have a customizable DS bar, with a selection of DS-only skills to choose from. This way, the DS bar could work with the regular bar
-Have F2-F4 skills (or even utility skills) as an alternative use of lifeforce
Paid beta? At least this game doesn’t have a monthly subscription.
I would expect PvE/PvP skill splits at some point. Certain skills work really well in PvE but not PvP, and vice versa.
I have seen a lot of threads that seem to directly conflict each other. I’ve seen plenty of “Warriors are OP”, “Rifles are OP”, “Warriors are better at range than rangers” but also plenty of “Warrior are useless in PvP/WvW.”
I would also like to know which is it? My guess is that playing warrior in PvP the way you do in PvE will get you killed very quickly, but that a warrior in the hands of a skilled player can be quite formidable.
I haven’t played any form of PvP to know how warriors fare, but I can tell you that in PvE I am having a much easier time with warrior than with any of the other classes that I’ve played so far.
I wish you could just use another utility skill in your elite slot. This isn’t specific to warrior, but just a general comment.
I’m not high enough level with my war to have a really valid assessment, but I am having a much easier time with the rifle-warrior than I am with the other classes I’ve played.
It’s great as a single-target weapon. Just make sure to have a good melee weapon to switch to if you get surrounded.
+1
It would be nice to add a little customization to each weapon, but I could see it being a nightmare from a balancing perspective. Additionally, you run the risk of making a lot of “filler” skills that are subpar. In the original Guild Wars, there were a lot of skill that just never saw any use because there were so many skills to choose from.
A few extra skills to switch out for each weapon would be nice, but I wouldn’t have a whole slew of them.
With the WASD movement instead of move to click, I have no reason to use the mouse while in combat. I use my left hand for movement and cycling targets, and the right hand on the number pad for skills and weapon swaps.
As it stands, in order to use a ground target skill, I have to move my hand off the keyboard and onto the mouse to aim. It definitely breaks up my fluid motions.
Does anyone have a better setup or any suggestions on how to use ground target skills without needing to use a mouse? I almost always want to use these on my target, but even a way to center on self or just a little in front of me would go a long ways.