Guild Wars 2

It would be a big buff to the lower stages though, especially if you don’t have to count on adrenaline for your healing. 5 sec vigor at stage 1 is enough for an extra dodge, 5 sec regen is a good bit more healing for stage 2, and who can complain about protection for stage 3, 5 seconds is actually pretty long for that boon. The point of the rework is to not punish the class mechanic for survival.

The change to mending makes it more of a counter to condi.

The change to hs is meant to give it an offensive use for offensive builds without as much free sustain, while enhancing its regen for tank builds.

Change healing surge to always heal for stage 2 amount. No adrenaline, just heal. 1 bar, heal and get 5 seconds of vigor. 2 bars heal and 5 seconds regen. 3 bar heal and 5 seconds protection.

Mending, convert up to 3 conditions into 3 stacks of might each for 10 seconds.

Healing signet, reduce base to 300, up the scaling with healing power to reach about 500 with maximum investment. Active recharges adrenaline and recharges burst skill cool down.

Could be interesting?

Pretty much any build not zerging, as you will want a staff for that. Small groups with an offensive build or meditation build it should work beautifuly, so long as you are tough enough to stick in close range.

I always pop an orb before swapping weapons. Nice little heal, and should recharge by the time you swap back. I just wish they would fix the ‘stuck’ issue with orb so you wouldn’t have to pop it with no benefit.

WvW and PvP builds aren’t that different really. Meta guardian builds for both are support bunker x/x/30/30/10 or x/x/10/30/30 with some small variation between and in traits for flavor. Shouts and consecrations make up your skills and stay with a group to support and survive. Roaming meditation guards work similar in both forums as well, but offensive guards simply aren’t truely competitive in either. DPS guards are mostly for pve and dungeons, or in hot join for fun.

No changes for guardian? This sounds legit, you must work for balance team.

Or when loaded with condi and health dips simply end rampage and use some skills? Protection is nice but 33% reduction is at its best like having 33% more HP. Healing works better but condi is ignored.

Protection does not buffer against condition damage.

Time to file a ticket then.

Should be a trophy icon bottom right corner of your screen when you win. Click on it just like achievement chests. That’s where your winnings should be, if all is working correctly.

Strong passive weak active is terrible design. It is, as far as I know, the only signet to made this way, for any class. All other signets encourage the user to activate them. Sure, most signet actives tend to be less impressive than other utilities, but that is because they give you a passive bonus when you don’t need to activate them.

If HS strong passive is the only thing keeping a warrior up and viable, then it is a poorly made bandaid for a larger underlying problem. It is insulting to have to rely on over scaled mechanics to be useful.

So if a guardian cannot kite a warrior he is doing it wrong? Just pointing out broad statements.

This is going to sound stupid but I have had great success against mesmers with my burn build just playing around. Like you I often find them to be amongst the hardest classes for me. I just went back to a classic triple med burst today and got owned so hard against a mes I rebuilt my burn guard between the next match just to get them back. Worked out quite well. Really hoping next balance patch does some good for condi guardian. My body is ready…

My personal favorite PvP burning build has evolved to:

10/25/0/5/30
Fiery Wrath, Inner Fire, Signet Mastery, Master of Consecrations, Supreme Justice, Permeating Wrath

Carrion Amulet/Jewel for condi/power/vit

Runes of the Forge for Toughness, burn duration, protection duration, and aoe burning plus a total of 15 seconds of protection when you drop below 50% health.

Great Sword and Staff, both with Sigil of Geomancy or Fire for some aoe to proc more burning.

Signet of Resolve, Signet of Judgement, Stand Your Ground, Purging Flames, Renewed Focus

This build has better sustain than I would have thought with lots of protection and signet of Judgement(underrated skill) some condi removal, a bit of healing from staff, two stun breaks on fairly low cooldown, stability etc etc…

Physical damage is good and crit chance is usually very high thanks to inner fire. No extra crit damage but you get almost guaranteed constant +20% damage mod from traits.

Burning is constant. Without might stacks, I burn for 622 per tick. You will burn everything around you all the time. I stack 1-3 seconds of burning every second on average. In a team fight with more enemies or lots of pets/clones burn time stacks up very very fast. When cleared, just keep attacking and they will simply continue to burn. If you can last 10 seconds in a fight, you will burn everyone for around 6k damage. 20 seconds = 12k. That may not sound like a lot, but remember you will be hitting hard with weapon skills too, and lots of retaliation to boot.

Harper.4173:

Mightymealworm.8409:

There are two problems with HS, but neither of them are completely responsible for the current perception of warriors. The HS problems are-

1: too much sustain for too little specialization (and too little sustain when traiting for sustain) Fix it with a lower base of around 300 per second that scales to 400 with moderate healing power and a around 550 or so with a lot of healing power. This would allow for some better bunker/support builds, and force those builds to sacrifice something for it. It would also encourage more zerk type builds to use surge for less run and reset type brawling.

2: no incentive to use active. The base healing of active skill could use some attention, a small boost and perhaps grant regen for a few seconds to not totally eliminate the sustain? I would prefer it to clear condi more like mending though, and have mending reworked.

The larger problem most people have with warrior (and most don’t realize it) is the amount of sustain that was created when warriors lost their weakness to conditions. Not all warrior builds are condi clearing maniacs, but many of the meta builds have little problem keeping high stacks off. This should be reworked a little, not reduced back to the levels that kept warriors from being viable so long ago, but every class needs a weakness.

So you’re basically saying " bring warrior back to where he was a while eago when he was kept from being viable".
This is an actual quote " kept warriors from being viable". You basically just flat out stated you want this class kept in a non-viable place. Aka nerfed into the ground.

Why do you even post? That’s not something constructive.

The whole idea of HS is that it offers sustain without forcing you to spec too much into it. This is balanced because of the fact that apart from that passive sustain you get almost nothing ( healing signet active is very weak).
The things you want to change about the skill are exactly the things that were designed to be the trade-off. Good passive heal without giving you the ability to turn it into an OP heal if you spec into healing power AND forces you to trade your ability to counter heavy spikes against you because of the weak active.
It was designed right and it works like that.
I play HS warrior. Poison and spikes are my bane. And that’s exactly how it should be.
Why make it like mending and have mending reworked? The skill is fine on its on and as it is.

Also the fact that you want warriors to be made unviable because you dislike the class is just an expression of what the player base has become.
Malicious to the extreme.

Um, I said to NOT reduce condi clearing back to levels that kept warriors from being viable. NOT reduce. You may want to slow down and read all the words before you spew forth errant conclusions.

Can anyone answere this question, what is the warriors new weakness?

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Mightymealworm.8409:

I prefer my condi guardian, surprises everyone (well, in hot join and solo q anyway). That’s hardcore baby!

Yea, you kill people with that one DoT condition you have access to.

p.s. Don’t forget to cover it with blind/immob/vulnerability.

No need to cover, I can reapply it as fast as you can clear it. Not saying its meta or anything, just that its fun and challanging

I prefer my condi guardian, surprises everyone (well, in hot join and solo q anyway). That’s hardcore baby!

The active should place a Symbol of Judgement (Downed skill #3, heals downed characters for a lot, heals others for a smaller amount) with the same mechanics as the staff symbol of speed. 30-40 second cooldown? That’s pretty long for a symbol but its a pretty strong symbol.

I generally don’t have a hard time 1vs1 other warriors either. I have met exceptions for sure, as I don’t PvP much on my war, but even playing my ‘fun build’ full condi burning guardian(read: hard mode) most 1vs1 warrior battles are quite manageable. I can’t wait for the fair weather fotm players to go packing for a new home, as all those hambows are quite frustrating in a crowd.

A PBAoE? you mean, like pressing the action key to res someone, only it looks more fancy?

Lol this thread is so getting shut down…when the guy responsible for checking the guardian forums once a month gets back from vacation that is… game on!

Caffynated.5713:

Every class needs nerfs, including ele instant burst.

If the best builds were not light years away from everything else, there would be a ton of viable options that every class could play. BM ranger is still fantastic, it just gets buried by the current OP cheese. Ele could be competitive with some builds if all the cheese was nerfed out of the game. Shatter mesmer would be top tier again.

Etc. etc.

Not a bad idea really, it would also make for less brain dead play in other areas of the game, like wvw zergs and pve. Cursed power creep…

There are two problems with HS, but neither of them are completely responsible for the current perception of warriors. The HS problems are-

1: too much sustain for too little specialization (and too little sustain when traiting for sustain) Fix it with a lower base of around 300 per second that scales to 400 with moderate healing power and a around 550 or so with a lot of healing power. This would allow for some better bunker/support builds, and force those builds to sacrifice something for it. It would also encourage more zerk type builds to use surge for less run and reset type brawling.

2: no incentive to use active. The base healing of active skill could use some attention, a small boost and perhaps grant regen for a few seconds to not totally eliminate the sustain? I would prefer it to clear condi more like mending though, and have mending reworked.

The larger problem most people have with warrior (and most don’t realize it) is the amount of sustain that was created when warriors lost their weakness to conditions. Not all warrior builds are condi clearing maniacs, but many of the meta builds have little problem keeping high stacks off. This should be reworked a little, not reduced back to the levels that kept warriors from being viable so long ago, but every class needs a weakness.

Eliminate spirit health, make them non-targets, reduce passive effect, have active effect destroy spirit. They should follow the caster without traits, and be able to be traited to not be destroyed when active is used. Spirits fixed.

I like the 33% damage return idea. Even as a guardian user I don’t like the mechanics of retal and confusion. However, retal damage was originally built into the classes damage calculations and gave bunker guards a way to fight back. Over the past year I have seen retal duration reduced to about a quarter of what it once was, and the damage reduced to about half. These changes have hit guardian damage hard, especially bunkers, in many types of play. I think this is where the development team began to notice a lack of damage output on guards. I just hope that if retal is changed (and it probably should be) that the guardian class as a whole is also taken into consideration.

Valentin.2073:

btw, me and my guildies tried to pull off an all spirit ranger team in tpvp and was able to win some but a team of MM’s just crushed us to the ground. we were helpless in the hands of this necro build. lol

Strangely my team of all spirit weapon guardians met the same fate…

Agreed, your post will be the final one…wait…DOH!

I said condi cleanse OR stability, as some will use syg over cop. A ‘full burst’ guardian is 10/30/30/0/0. For them to pick up vigor and protection they typically use the more hybrid 0/30/30/5/5 build, but that drops 100 power and a 10% damage mod. There are other med builds out there, but they lack burst ability and tend to be more DPS oriented.

Not to continue to derail the thread, but I stand by my original statement that if you want to play as a more difficult warrior, just roll an offensive guardian.

redslion.9675:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Offensive guardian is the hard made warrior. Or kitten warrior, ineffective warrior, half warrior, whatever you prefer.

Don’t underestimate med guardian. They have pretty brutal hps, even as burst, and have brutal damage. And can dodge more. What they lack are mobility and cc, which means they are effective in less situations.

They also lack condi cleansing or stabilty, and sustain if burst fails as their burst rotation requires them to usually blow 2 of their utilities on first engagement negating a lot of that traited healing. They only dodge more if they give up a lot of their damage.

Offensive guardian is the hard made warrior. Or kitten warrior, ineffective warrior, half warrior, whatever you prefer.

Adrenal health is fine, HS base heal and active heal I think could be tweaked a little bit with healing power scaling to make more sacrifice=reward.

Personally I think warrior needs a bit of either its old weaknes (condi cleaning) back, or a new weakness. If you go back to the old class balance philosophy anet posted, warrior is the only profession that has evolved out of its class designed handicaps.

The question is, as a whole, do you believe all classes are on equal footing?

Personally I believe they are pretty close, and closer now than they have been. Many classes have at least 1 or 2 viable builds in various areas of the game. I will concede that wars tend to have a plethora of viable and easy options right now, especially compared to a few of the ‘left behind’ classes. Keep in mind being ‘op’ in this game tends to be much more subtle than in many others due in no small part to player skill. Any class can defeat a warrior, but that does not indicate that war is not op any more than wars being able to defeat any other class would indicate the opposite.

The big question, I believe, is what is the warrior classes inherent weakness? All classes were created with at least one. Warriors, as stated in the class balance philosophy, were specifically supposed to have difficulty with enemy boons and with clearing conditions. Are these factors still true, or have they changed?

Tome of wrath is probably our best ranged option. Our effective range is really around 600, beyond that it is difficult to land most of our ranged attacks, but at medium range we are pretty strong.

DontJudgeMe.3958:

Shadowfall.6543:

I’ll take the bait. (I play an elementalist main so you understand where these come from)

• Healing signet 400 HP/Sec, Signet of restoration 200 HP per case (with after cast, most spells can’t even be cast 1 per second).
• All of your 20% reduction skills come with a bonus (i.e. like 20% reduction on rifle/harpoon with pierce while rangers require a master trait that only gives pierce).
• on the topic of crackshot, Eles 20% reduction to water magic cool down was moved to master because of balance (Devs think skill reductions are master level), Crackshot is adept…
• mobility on Greatsword, 4 words: “Ride the lightning nerf” (Eles were nerfed into the ground because of our ability to disengage, we’ll see what happens with warrior mobility).
• over 1000 additional “Free attribute points” (8000 HP = 800 vitality and armor 300 armor = 300 toughness) while maintaining comparable (or better) DPS, better control, and great mobility.

should I continue?

You probably should because I’ll break this down for you.

You can’t compare a sustain for 2 different classes. Ele’s have access to a variety of boons which the warriors doesnt. Including 33% damage reduction. You’ve got mistform. It’s silly to compare your sustain with ours because you got to consider every other skill an ele has and compare them with ours as well and then figure out what could even it out. So this statement is removed from the table instantly. (I wont even begin about the amount of fields and barriers you have)

Greatsword increased power and cooldown reduction are still in different traitlines. I don’t remember when I saw someone using a rifle, that’s just silly. If you have so many different options to choose from, and they get a skill reduction as well, you could be spamming skills by placing your head on the keyboard. A warrior has a set amount of options available so the cooldown debate is completely different as well, you’ve got nothing to compare here unless we would receive new ‘actions’ if we pressed F1/F2 etc.

Last time I checked Ride the Lightning wasn’t affected by cripple. If you cripple a warrior his mobility on all greatsword skills is suddenly reduced to nothing but a small walk. Compared these 2 things is again, pointless and wrong since they have different mechanics attached to them.

We got more hp, so what? You got protection, misform, RTL, all those fields, you even got elemental weapons that looks more awesome than our weapons most of the time, have you seen the damage on fiery gs nr 4 skill? It’s ridiculous. You can’t simply state “Oh you have more hp and armor, we deserve that too.” No you don’t, your class has a whole different way of mitigating damage while the Warrior ends up being the sucker who has to absorb all the damage, chase people… because let’s face it, everyone tries to kite us, and then we have to somehow catch them and beat them up while they still have all the damage mitigation when we finally reach them.

So yes, please continue with your suggestions. As long as you simply compare skills that ‘look’ the same, you’ll always be wrong.
Have you ever fought against an Ele as a warrior? You guys play like cowards. You plant down AOE damage and keep on using ranged skills while we’re trying to chase you down with our melee wooden sticks. Keep that in mind when you try to think of your next comments about how anything that the ele has is close to a warrior, because it’s not.

Lol OK then as a whole, in most situations, warrior>elementalist. There you go. Oh and instead of lusting after conjured weapons, just pick one up. Or build your own.

And no, I don’t play ele. Mostly guard/warrior/necro/engi/ranger.

20% damage conversion would give you 40-60 HP from retal each hit you take. That’s not a lot of damage mitigation. Shelter is much better in instance.

Guardians are great bunkers because of the support they bring, not because of survivability. Bunker warriors, engis and maybe even spirit rangers can survive better 1v1 or even 1v2. Protection is -33% physical damage and is up realistically less than 50% of a fight if even equipped for it. Warriors can easily have more than 50% larger health pool if built for it. Warrior can have protection from others and/or runes, guards can never have that health pool. Bunker wars can also bring support in a different flavor, offence. Don’t doubt the power of a bunker warrior.

Julie Yann.5379:

I think what is keeping my warrior a float in WvW is Cleansing Ire, Dogged March, Melandru runes, and – Condi Food. HS has really nothing to do with it.

Yes, the big change in sustain was mostly due to the condi removal, HS was just the icing on the cake. Warriors were initially designed to be weak to conditions, and need help from others to remove them effectively. Now that shortcoming has been effectively erased. Not reduced, eliminated. Warriors currently have excellet self condi cleansing options and even some team condi cleansing support. Even the change to HS helps sustain against condi more than burst. Now the problem is we have the rest of the classes with their class mechanics weakness intact. Should those weaknesses be erased as well? Should warriors be given given a new weakness? Should the old one return? I don’t know.

You would have to adjust damage on a lot of skills to reflect that change. Then you would also have toughness>vitality, with nothing to get through the bunkers. I think an easier solution would be to reduce each classes access to so many types of damaging conditions. No one complains about condi guards and eles, because they only have access to a handfull of conditions.

I see it as a positive. When the guide got a sticky it felt as though the devs were trying to convince us that condi build on guardian was viable. Now that they have admitted that it is not, the unsticky makes me believe that they are still in the process of developing a viable alternative. Hey, at least we are getting some form of attention.

You can’t tick 800 without massive might stacks or no physical damage. Calling to nerf a single element of the game without looking at the whole and how it effects all classes is unhealthy. Burning is just fine on some classes, and is built into their damage calculations so they can match classes that must spec/have no access to burning.

Go play a condi guardian who can keep aoe burning up 100% even if you clear it, then come back and tell me how op burning is.

Renewed focus is 2 second, 3 if traited.

Flissy.4093:

Eloquence.5207:

Flissy.4093:

Eloquence.5207:

Lol Guardian has no health.

But protection/aegis/perma vigor/blinds. Less health, but more defensive measures.

High cool down. Plus a guardian would likely have insufficient damage to down a warrior.

Aegis has a long CD, but multiple sources – a low CD for what is actually is. Vigor is “perma” (5 seconds on crit, ICD of 5 seconds), with low CD blinds. The protection uptime is absolutely ridiculous.

They do, indeed, have lower damage, but guess what – Guardians bunker, and they bunker well. A bunker isn’t supposed to survive and dish out massive damage (Warrior nerfed for this reason) they’re meant to hold, and hold, and hold, until someone with a bit more punch arrives.

Vigor is only permanent if they have decent crit. Damage is only lower if they go bunker. I imagine the duels will take place in spvp, where guardian protection is nerfed. And remember, even with all the mitigation, he will have to time it to make up for around 50% less health. That said, survive the burst, then plant them, wear out there defenses with constant pressure and finish them off.

Most offensive guards have around 4 seconds of protection a minute if any at all. A few blinds, maybe vigor if traited. 2 aegis, one on opening and one on demand (that’s where protection comes in as well). Renewed focus brings back 1 aegis, protection(of traited) and a blind. A burst med guard isn’t looking for a long fight, he wants it over as soon as possible. If you can survive his initial burst just keep on top of him, shouldn’t be hard as guards have terrible mobility, and don’t let him heal. Healing surge>healing signet in this case as well.

Troll.4237:

My point is that a class that is not based on condis shouldn’t be able to cream a class that a based around condis… Lol, why did I even bother posting here. You guys will always say your not op and keep asking for buffs until you can 1v5 with ease.

Well honestly, you never specified that in your original post. No idea if you were discussing pve, wvw, spvp, tpvp, 1vs1 etc… Yes, warriors are strong vs condi necros, but thats mostly because warriors mix condi with power, and have crazy condi removal/mitigation. Pretty sure warrior 2.0 was designed to counter condi necro.

More tanky heavy armor tough guy vs. More condi robe wearing magical emo guy? Yup, it does make sense.

Lumines.3916:

Much like how Dhuumfire is the most complained about trait for Necromancers even though it’s not even that good (Terror is what is bursting you fools!), Healing Signet is but the scapegoat.

Berserker Stance and Cleansing Ire are the two things that made Warriors super viable in my view.

This. Anet removed what it had originally designed to be a worriors weak spot, condition removal. HS is really strong in the right builds, but it is just a piece of the warrior 2.0

Try mace with a med burst build. Protectors strike is beatiful, and the auto attack hits hard. Although, I haven’t used it now that powerful blades has been buffed.

Mace is great…except the third hit only striking a single target. 66% damage potential lost.

The problem is heal mechanics vs needs of the build. Our POWER builds (the supposed focus of the patch) are weak on sustain/control/mobility. This heal offers short sustain over 6 seconds, but requires at least one of the other weak spots to be addressed to be as effective as other heal skills that simply work when you press the button. The ability to heal even more in a short burst if you get lucky is small reward for a build with very little vit/health. Power builds would benefit more from a longer duration, like 10% over 12 seconds, provided we had means to stick in a fight.

Or BURST builds are where this skill is actually traited for, but the mechanics are wrong for burst. Burst is very fast damage on a very glass cannon build in an effort to destroy your opponent before they have a chance to retaliate. The cast time kills this skill for this role as it leaves you vulnerable and if used when your health is low, still leaves your health low. If used preemptive to low health before a burst, you waste your sustain on overheal. Most med builds heal on meditation, but open with 2 of them. Opening with a 3rd in place of a heal skill is simply more health wasted, less escape if things go wrong.