I have forever been a fan of both halving concecration durations and conceration cool downs. Purging flames is the exception, that one is fine. Shelter could use a slightly larger radius.
For all the spirit weapon complainers, this doesn’t make them much better than they already are. The exact same trait pathing is required to build for them, and they trade a damage nerf for a sustain boost. And the sustain boost still leaves them more vulnerable than they were when they were immortal and STILL were not popular.
Anet is claiming fake. Kind of a shame really.
That’s a shame, I really liked the fake guardian changes. You guys should look into those ;}
Why are you all arguing about whining or not whining in a dead thread? This whole last page is so full of… Well, I’ll cut myself off there. Post all you want in this thread but just know that making a more current and constructive thread would be more in your self interests.
oh god, please no…so much fail…
Instant cast and make it 10% damge dealt for 12 seconds vs. the current 20% for 6 and I would take it. Offensive guards have low hp and mediocre defense, this values sustain over high burst healing.
Guard mace cleave is a small forgettable heal on a 1 sec long cast. I don’t see the value in the trade off.
Retaliation is a key part of a bunker guardian’s potential. Getting rid of it would break a key component of the class, which means it’s not going to go away.
Retaliation should just stack in intensity. It makes it balanced in 1v1s and it removes its ability to burn down an entire group of players’ HP simultaneously.
Shelter has risk, its a very bad heal if timed incorrectly.
Every heal is bad if timed incorrectly.
It just happens to be difficult to time it poorly due to current guardian meta builds.
What about a Guardian meta build actually makes “timing” [Shelter] poorly difficult to do? Do you even have an actual explanation for this sentence?
Yes, therefore every heal skill has risk. A poorly timed shelter is one activated when you are either not being focused on with physical attacks (could have used signet instead for 2x the healing) or when you should be attacking instead (opponent can take your block time as a free heal as well, and very well may receive a larger benefit). As a very melee focused class with poor mobility outside of porting into battle, guardians are almost always in the middle of fights. This makes using shelter in fight when it would not block any attacks very difficult to do.
I’m not saying its a heal that requires ant great skill to use, but guards already have high risk heals. They just aren’t worth the risk. Make shelter difficult to use and you will see the masses flock to signet of resolve. That’s all.
Shelter has risk, its a very bad heal if timed incorrectly. It just happens to be difficult to time it poorly due to current guardian meta builds. Guards lack range and escapes so they are always in the middle of battles. Guards lack HP and all meta builds have healing alternatives so they don’t mind tiny heal on the skill.
If signet traits were more useful, or if high HP or high mobility ranged guard builds were more prevalent, signet of resolve would be more popular. Healing breeze needs reworking and litany is poorly designed. Fix these three and shelter would face more competition. Saying shelter is op because it is most popular healing skill is like saying renewed focus is op because it is the most used elite skill.
I think shelter is fine, but if you must raise skill cap on it, reduce heal by 33% and add 1 more second block. Makes it more of a situational heal with longer chance to interrupt and reduces healing sustain.
Your mending is way too strong a group heal. How about it converts up to 3 damaging conditions into 2 second stacks of regen (6 seconds max) for self and up to 5 allies at 600 range. Heal part stays the same and self only. Conversion effects allies.
Shelter already has a pretty big trade off, it has less hps than wars healing signet ACTIVE. It is a good skill for mitigating damage but terrible for gaining health. The blocking makes it difficult for many to interupt , but the channel is long enough for a skilled player to fear or cc with an unblockable if equipped. It also goes on full cool down if interrupted, unlike other skills. Signet of resolve is used quite a bit, not as much as shelter but i think that has a lot to do with the fairly weak passive that spends a lot of time on cool down.
Sword teleport is the main reason why sword is so popular in melee. Along with GS it is one of the only weapons we have that we can use to actually hit an opponent. Sword is quicker than GS, but quirkier. Auto can bug and not connect, has poor cleave, can be reflected and zealots defense is often best not used unless you are taking a lot of ranged auto attacks. The weapon really leans on flashing blade to keep it useful.
Actually because there will be no more ‘heavy weighted’ crit damage pieces, there will be less incentive to mix sets. ALL zerk or go home.
Guardians are good at buffing warriors and carrying their banners for them.
LoW would be a good utility skill if it were toned down to 10% with no cast time and maybe even no base heal. They could then buff and fix divine intervention and move it to healing skill (make predictable teleport, buff heal amount a bit and reduce cool down a bit).
My favorite build for condi was a 10/25/0/5/30 build I had. It was in PvP with Carrion Amulet and a Soldiers Jewel, good amounts of precision power and condi damage. I had about 17.5k hp and 2400 toughness with forge runes. To make up for the low Toughness I used signet mastery with Signet of Judgement and had lots of protection from the forge runes.
Weapons were Greatsword and Staff, both with Geomancy Sigils for aoe damage and the decent duration bleed stacks.
The key for guardian condi damage is sticking close to opponents with lots of quick rapid hits. If you take both Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath you can apply 2 to 3 stacks of 1.25 second burns every second. This is how you defeat the need for cover conditions, because you will be able to re-apply burning before it even misses a tick. You wont be able to burst condi an opponent down, but your power isn’t bad and with fiery wrath you will have +20% damage almost always on.
Purging flames is great as well, but try to save it for when you really need the condi cleanse and/or the opponent has used up thier condi clear already. My favorite combo is to use Purging flames, greastsword 5, when they run out of the flame circle pull them back in for another dose of long term burning, whirling wrath, and as they try to flee swap to staff real quick for some bleed stacks and boost your condi damage with empower. Sit back and watch the numbers tick as they run.
The above is hardly a competitive build, but it is tons of fun.
(edited by Mightymealworm.8409)
‘Why healing signet is over powered’-
Because the passive always delivers the highest health per second (hps) of any healing skill. Always.
Because it is strong against its counters. Unless a warrior is already at a reduced health pool and/or has defenses/escapes on cool down, bursting a high defense high health class is incredibly difficult in first pass.
Poison reduces hps from strongest to strong (around 300 hps) and that is only if maintained 100%. Reduced application has reduced effects.
The active is actually low-average to average hps (160-200) when compared to other classes heals.
Bust the main reason I dislike it is because it is a sloppy and dull way to add sustain to a class. Makes my warrior boring.
Please make warriors free kills again please!
No one is asking for a ‘free’ kill, but could we at least get a coupon? The price is a bit high…
Need more banner share, lol.
i want meditations will help a lot against warrior huge telegraphy.
also Zealous Blade and easier access to Retaliation and protection.
Deal, your health pool for zealous blade. Retaliatory subconscious has retal covered. Swap shield 4 skills for protection. No deal on meds though, guardian telegraphs are already longer than wars, so quit crying about tells already.
Or, guards already share healing, retaliation and protection with all their warrior friends. How about warriors figure out a way to share their healthpool and leaps with others?
(edited by Mightymealworm.8409)
Hmm. when i posted about this people fell head over heels to call me a noob.
guess i was right after all.. good to know ^^
Had to fight for it, because at first people find it simply unbelievable.
Anyway I probably should have brought the concern up in a better format, but I was bored and feeling a bit impish. Nothing like a good forum speculation fight. However, I’m not that sure that the Devs have thought about it as an issue based on how many people this has slipped by here.
Hope that they do figure it all out before it goes live. Upcoming patch notes sure would be nice, hint hint.
If it couldn’t be countered by good players then its what, balanced? Stop looking for easy mode, not every attack should be 100% effective 100% of the time.
BTW, 100 blades on a contested point makes for a tough spot in a crowd. If anything, they should up its range just a touch, not a lot. The skill has better uses than 1vs1.
Will have to wait and see what they have planned for runes and sigils before I speculate too much there.
As for Vigorous Precision, I think as long as there are further tweaks to reduce our dependency on this trait to stay alive in offensive builds it should be OK. It will reduce our bunker builds a bit, but we have some wiggle room there so long as we we can have some other viable role to fall back on as well.
I am not impressed with the healing skill changes. They both suffer from some handicaps that will need to be addressed before they are very viable. Such as:
Litany of Wrath: Shaving the cast time is a start but I still feel that this skill really needs to be instant cast to be of much use. Otherwise it interrupts the burst chain type setups that meditations are tailored for. ALL other meditations are instant cast, having a cast time here is like having a cast time on a shout. The other issue is target sticking. We just don’t have a lot of ways to stick to a target to make the healing portion worthwhile, this also makes the amount of healing against a single target pretty paltry most of the time. An unreliable healing skill when you have such a small health pool and are running an offensive build that forgoes most of your defenses is very hard to manage.
Healing Breeze: This skill suffer from 3 problems. #1 is the 2.25 second channel time where you blow your minty freshness at anyone willing to stand there and take it. That’s a lot of time to be interrupted or not dodge or not attack. #2 is the awkward targeting. How many times are you going to hang out behind your team with them tightly knit into a cone in front of you standing still? Not enough to want to use this skill. #3 is the 40 second cool down. The relatively low healing amount is not near enough to warrant the long cool down, let alone all the other problems with this skill.
Healing Breeze is 6.5k with a 40 second cool down, 162.5 Hp per second
Shelter is 4.5k with a 30 second cool down, 150 Hp per second
Signet of resolve is a whopping 8.1k every 40(32) seconds, 202.5(253) Hp per second
The above is one reason we go bunker. The other is that all our good traits are bunker.
You do realize that by doing NORMAL damage the world boss dies 30 to 40 times faster right?I mean this must be news for you but that is why people use berserk classes in pve. Berseker classes can do 17k damage in under 3 seconds and you claim 17k over 30 seconds is op .Funny
This thread is the perfect example why devs never take into consideration warrior points in forums and go with the breeze blown by other classes qq.The topic is to say the least laughable.
Actually, it’s been clear with recent changes that the balance team listens to these forums too much when it comes to nerfs. I mean look at the upcoming nerfs to Pin Down and Healing Signet.
Oh hey, look at the upcoming nerfs to ALL the classes…
Hammers do work great on old folks…
Yeah…i have no idea what I was thinking when I posted that. Like, I looked at that the next day and I thought, “wow…Im dumb >_<”
Hey man, Jim Beam happens.
Ele only gets 1 weapon set, DENIED.
Yes, but it procs on ATTUNEMENT swap, so we can activate the sigils every 5 seconds permanently by swapping attunements.
Not with the 9 second sigil cool down. You would need a 2nd set to swap to.
Yes, it works for eles’ attunement swap. You should check it out.
On swap Sigils have a 9 internal cool down. Ele can only have one weapon set, therefore attunement change can only poc on swap sigils every 9 seconds, not every 5 seconds.
Ele only gets 1 weapon set, DENIED.
Yes, but it procs on ATTUNEMENT swap, so we can activate the sigils every 5 seconds permanently by swapping attunements.
Not with the 9 second sigil cool down. You would need a 2nd set to swap to.
Ele only gets 1 weapon set, DENIED.
I didn’t know warrior was the only class that could weapon swap or use weapon swap sigils.
You learn something new every day.
Only class that can use them every 5 seconds, vs 9-10 seconds for other classes. Was kind of the point of the whole thread. Unlearn and try again.
Mace 3 requires you to be struck while channel is up. Actions other than movement will cancel the channel.
Swap, 9 second timer begins. 5 seconds later you can swap to proc the 2nd set, begin 2nd 9 sec timer. First set has 4 sec recharge left with 5 sec till next swap. Each set will go off every 10 seconds, staggered every 5. That’s twice the procs of any other class.
Weapon swap sigils with 9 second cool down. Swap weapons with 5 second cool down. No more shared cool downs on sigils. You can poc 2 sets of sigils evey 5 seconds= awesome.
Hydromancy+geomancy then 5 seconds later energy+battle then 5 seconds later rinse and repeat. Mmmmmnnn warrs get 2x the bonus.
Let the other classes tears flow, and the warrior apologists explain why they need this.
At least you are not alone with guardians necros being rather slow as well.
5 second weapon swaps with 9 second weapon swap sigil cool downs that are no longer shared is a huge buff to warriors. You swap back to each sigil set just as they reset, hydromancy + energy, geomancy + battle etc…
What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?
That is the most simple solution.
An 8k heal on a 20(16) second timer?
I roll 10/0/30/25/5 to grab 2 damage mods back and some power. You miss the blind and reset to virtue, but in PvP situations you won’t be resetting it too much. Also the trait to have aegis heal on removal can be used to add some extra sustain. Another popular build is 10/5/30/5/20 to help manage condi better.
Whatever we say, warrior haters keep asking nerf warrios no matter what.
wait what? I think I can hear that other professions are saying new HS is still OP
Yo bro, all the classes except ele have had a nerf or 2 announced already. Some of them much larger than 8% HS passive reduction (with a buff to active!). We don’t have all the proposed changes yet either. Some shaving all around is probably to be expected due to the upcoming sigil changes anyway. Lose the tunnel vision already.
A lot of poison and burst are both taking a hit this patch as well. Also some of the other classes are going to have some sustain reduced as much or more than HS, so I wouldn’t worry too much about until we see what everything looks like.
Only way to fix hs active is to increase the cool down. As long as cool down is 20 to 16 seconds the effect or amount will always have to be negligible. 40 (32) second cool down with about 8-9k heal is far more interesting a trade off.
If that would be changed it would be the only heal used…
It already is the only heal used. This would at least put a good sized cool down on passive. Bigger punishment to those who use bad timing and to the run and reengage guys.
I can confirm it is too unreliable for PvP. Offensive guardians are rather squishy and really need to be able to count on the few heals and defenses they have to stay upright. This heal will let you down more often than not.
is this the complain about warriors month?
wars been too strong for past half year at least~
No it hasnt i dont know what you people are smoking, warrior is too powerful omg plox nerf, how many of you actually spvp and got a higher rank than 20 please, how many of you run anything other than cof path 1? What about melee rangers out there that are spirit spec in pvp and are unkillable.
here is a video for those who say rangers suck in pve
There are zerker minion mancers out there that have 2 fears deathshroud, pets that heal on attack. golem rush with 1 minute cooldown with EVERY BUFF IN THE GAME!
good thief will use blinds and OVERPOWERED STEALTH against any warrior, being able to DISENGAGE AT WILL > EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME!
D/D ele’s will be even stronger after this coming tuesday.
There is a retaliation guardian build that destroys anyone that touches them while sustaining healing ohh and its a bunker build at the same time btw
Why is are there Q.Q posts about warriors all the time. ARENA NET PLEASE NERF THOSE CLASSES!
Because those builds/classes are not as strong as warrior?
Only way to fix hs active is to increase the cool down. As long as cool down is 20 to 16 seconds the effect or amount will always have to be negligible. 40 (32) second cool down with about 8-9k heal is far more interesting a trade off.
The funny thing about shelter is that its healing per second value is lower than healing signet ACTIVE (especially with trait) not including any passive regen. Do 2 seconds of block every 30 seconds = indefinite 400hps?
I dunno, my guardian has pretty much the same issues as my warror so maybe its a melee profession thing. Outside of meditations my guards attacks are just about as telegraphed. All professions with shouts have those as instant, although those are support skills for the most part. All professions except ele were shown to be getting nerfs too this upcoming patch. My guardian is actually expecting a bigger hps nerf than my warrior is with the vigorous precision change. Mesmer will also lose some mitigation, just like other classes that already lost large amounts of vigor uptime. Sounds like blanket nerfs to counter sigil changes.
Funny part is, the original version of vigorous precision (1 second proc no cool down) favored offensive builds and was less effective for defensive builds. Then they changed it (5 second proc 5 second cool down) to be more effective for bunker builds. Soon it will about half as effective for both.
Does the same to spirit weapon guards. At least your minions are useful when they are around.
Original was 200hp/sec. So it is actually approximately 16% nerf.
…stay in school.
Sigil of fire is on cool down when u swap. Currently all sigils with cool down share cool down. Fix coming next big patch.