(edited by Muchacho.2390)
I would rather it was kept as a 5point trait and they just buffed it up a bit, on a 30second cool down it is wasted. Reducing the cool down is heading in the right direction but i think it should be 5-10 seconds
I disagree i would like to put points in death magic without having to take minors that are only useful in mm builds….
well i think, there are mainly 2 mm builds, one that tries to keep the minons alive and one that tries to kill them for more damage. So where do you think those little useless rats are better?
i wouldnt say that dps guards are bad in high pvp, I mean dps guards are really at good 1v1 (not so good at 1vx if they know what they doing). The problem is that in conquest a bunker guard outperforms a dps guard heavily (he brings only high damage but nearly no utillity). So going bunker is always the better choice for high pvp, as you want normally different classes in a team, so 1 guard is enough.
I think its a highly situational heal, for most situations other heals are better. But hey atleast there are some situations where the skill is better (unlike some other new healing skills (necro)).
By the way i think it best used with hammer as you can prevent them from running away (hammer 3 and 5) if they dont pop stabi. And decreasing the casttime would be nice.
Well i am sure this bug was already posted, but it is a really bad one and as there was no fix for it, i will post it again.
When being kicked out of Death Shroud due lack of lifeforce, we cannot use our heal,utility and elite skills for a few seconds (This doesnt happen if you leave ds be pressing f1). While i understand that bug shave different priorities for fixing, i think this one should be of highest prioity as it gimbs a class mechanic.
I’m OK with the signet. Not sure if I’d say “happy,” but it’s been pretty functional, and I don’t regret buying and equipping it. SoV is a perfect match for my build, but I’m VERY fringe. But it could be better, and thus, more appealing for, well, “normal” players.
Keep in mind, I’m a primarily PvE player, and I’ve noticed that on the class boards, the only way I can make sense of what other people are talking about is to assume they’re looking at things from a PvP standpoint. My main is also an Ele (that had a 30 Fire, 0 Arcana build from the start), so Necro is just an alt I like tooling around with for fun, and I’ve had the most fun turning her into a support healer. In short, I think outside the box and have fun, but that doesn’t necessarily equate to actual effectiveness.
If the goal is to open up new opportunities for less used builds, I’m happy… but mission not a success because people would rather stick to what they know, and SoV isn’t appealing enough on its own to draw in anyone other than, well, folks like me.
The ICD is more annoying than I thought it would be, as it’s sometimes a struggle just to get 4 stacks off. I have managed to get 5 stacks off on rare occasions, but those required setting a siphoning well before using SoV. This makes it nearly impossible to get more than 20 stacks off in a normal party. It’s unfeasible to expect everyone to use an AoE so we can always make full use of an SoV spike.
There is NO reason to have an ICD when you have a stack limit. A stack limit makes sense. With no stack limit, a handful of SoVs could down a world boss in seconds. But the ICD? You already capped its potential. Even if a Necro manages to take off all 25 stacks by itself (possible by using multiple siphoning wells and rapid attacks), what’s the payoff? The damage it would do to one target wouldn’t be game-breaking, and while the healing would be significant (almost guaranteed to heal anyone to full unless they have a very high health pool and was close to death), why wouldn’t that be a just reward? Warrior and Guardian both have healing skills that can heal for a significant amount in the right circumstances.
I would actually be fine with an active 0.6s ICD. And remember, I’m probably the only person on this forum that likes SoV (or rather, I like the idea of SoV). It’s at least a reasonable window for a party of 5 to use up all stacks. Heck, I’d be okay with keeping the 1s ICD as long as pets and minions could also use up stacks. It’s the fact that using SoV to its full potential is unfeasible in the average party that confounds me.
The only possible reason I can see for having an active ICD is in the interest of fairness with group healing. With no ICD, an ally hitting the marked target with more rapid attacks will get a majority of the healing, while allies with slower attacks will get less. In short, it would create a unique scenario of “heal stealing” from those who might need it more. Which is why, again, I would suggest a shorter ICD of AT MOST0.6s.
The passive, again, I’m totally okay with. It’s on by far the lowest-recharge signet Necros have, and it’s still a more useful passive than Signet of Undeath. No problems with ICD there, but the healing should either scale more with healing power or be a siphon like it originally was.
People have already talked at great length about what they hate about this skill, but I think feedback from someone who actually kinda likes it would be more constructive than worthless comments like “don’t bring it or you die,” “I want a refund,” and “we didn’t get a heal.”
The problem with the signet is simple the numbers in its current state are not good enough, all other healing skills give you more numerical wise. They have to buff them and giving back the siphon on the passiv would make it more like a vampire skill (that shouldnt be a problem with the icd).
Well if you want the standard power build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;043Z;1kHVI0G4ZJVJ0;9;4T9;0T59B5;651B6NW4;2JF04JF045Bj
Edit: This is for pvp: I think for pve you take 25 points in curses, but who cares about maximiazing your build in pve.^^
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
play power necro… its harder and maybe even up but makes more fun and you can laugh at those traits…
If nobody uses the skill, nobody whines about the skill and it stays unused and never gets buffed. For example corrosive poison cloud or signet of undeath, and those get much more use than this thing ever will.
Actually, this skill in the last few days alone has gotten more pure discussion and complaints than CPC and SoU combined in their entire lifetimes as skills. There has been easily 25 pages or so over multiple threads about this skill.
The difference is that while CPC is a bit weak and needs a little buffing, it still has niche use. Part of what is making the skill so weak is that it is a very sPvP oriented skill, but desires a Necromancer build-type that isn’t common at all in sPvP right now. But when you have space to use it, it can do really strong things. Drop CPC and WoS on a downed body in sPvP, and that person isn’t getting back up. If their team tries anyway, they’ll end up with 30s of poison and weakness, while taking a few thousand damage for the effort of still not getting them up. Niche, yes, weak yes, but still usable.
Signet of Undeath is even more niche, but again still has some slight uses for more difficult dungeons and fractals where stopping to res someone is not a good idea.
But SoV has nothing. I also urge people to not even buy the skill if it hasn’t changed. They do have statistics on this, and if they see Necromancers refuse to buy it, or buy it, equip it once to try it, and never equip it again, they will notice. And the forum complaints won’t stop very soon.
Sorry i already bought it and regretted it…
Agreed, its only useful for mms like the 15 point minor. Immo both should change such that you can, as bunker necro, skill in deathmagic without gimping urself.
I agree that weakining shroud needed a nerf, but i think this is too much… i mean 2 sec? Unless you time perfectly for a burst, it will be useless. I think 3 or 4 sec would have been better.
And i think that the necro isnt weak, its more that many of his skills contradict each other (e.g. ds and life siphons), and other skills not reliable enough to compesate our lack of mobility (mainly or ways to stick to an enemy).
I got one, it had a dark moon shield in it. I think that’s pretty cool, only because I had no idea those even existed. It is pretty ugly though…
you could get the shield before in match making chests… so nothing new
Well it could have been worse… oooh wait our new skill also sucks, seems it got worse.
play power or mm biulds then you will have some chances… sadly
the weakening shroud nerf hit us hard (2sec for gods sake is no enough)
It seems we were really bad children….
But what the hell are we supposed to do? We are necromacer… we have do stuff like stealing life (we are even not good at this) and killing (we need meat and bones for fleshie).
If you play necro you will be fine, no need to wast 25 skill points on that crap… (I regret buying it)
One build on what is generally considered the weakest class in sPvP may be a counter to one of the strongest classes in sPvP.
Works for me.
Necromancer the strongest class in sPvP? That is certainly not the necro, probably bunker guard (most stabil spec since launch)… And condi specs were only strong because of the condiburst+ fear (Which, be the way, is stupid… condis should be more for a sustain spec then a burst spec). Play the typical power necro spec and you will see how strong we are outside from condi specs…
(ok we also have mm but that too ai dependent)
Man its even worse than i thought. The scaling with healing power is also crappy. Every necro who will use this skill will make him/her self much weaker.
Good thing i play mostly power builds on my nerco atm…
I think the nerf to weakening shroud will hit condi necros harder
why is weaking shroud 2 sec? 2 sec are useless…
Merging with what? Do you mean by axing making it into a axe trait or getting rid of it?
Well if its 3v5 or 4v5 i will play no matter if we are the advantages team or we arent. Heck i am playing to have fun, and i have ether way, the one thing is easy mode the other is hard mode.^^
But i agree, i think if someone dced there should be a pause and if he isnt coming back after lets say 3 min end the game ends immediately so that we can move on…
Some system to punish afkler who give up should also be put in place.
I, as someone how likes dota2, i have to say they matchmaking is not bad, but its not perfect I had many games which were a one sided slaughter and it was not caused by outdrafting.
To be honest apart from the whole 4v5 bs and the case that 3 or more of one class are in a team the match making is not as bad as it was, but maybe its only because most of the time i play nights and only the more “hardcore” pvpler (not including me, but mostly rang 45 or higher player) play at those times (everyone knows what he is doing, is really nice). Those games a most of the time really close (450ish to 500)
I think a system that tries to avoid that the same classes are in a team and something more effective against those leavers at the beginning, would be good.
But the ability to pause is really nice if someone dced for a short time which already happend to me. This is more important i think.
I think reducing the cast time of dark pact to 1/2 sec would be enough. And increasing the heal of dagger 2 would be nice, i feel it heals not enough for its unreliablity.
I’d be willing to accept our lack of mobility if we were as difficult to escape as we are supposed to be. Currently, we’re not only the easiest profession to catch but also the easiest to escape.
Agreed, but i think it would be ok making the teleport from dark path more reliable (on range its easy to dodge thus negating the teleport).
I think that the main Problem simply is that the numbers are too bad to be ever useful. They have to buff atleast the numbers to make that signet viable. And giving back the damage on the passive part would give it back its identity (I mean its strange, it is a vampire signet but it heals instead of siphoning life…).
It won’t ever make sense. Its a +% damage trait to a weapon that isn’t used for direct damage. Axe it and give us something better kthx. Or at least combine it with another staff trait.
Well i use staff in both power and condi builds (acutally i run staff in all my builds…), but you are right giving the marks additional utility instead of damage would be better. I only wanted to start a discussion about that trait.
necro right now is pretty solid in pvp
Guessing you dont PvP much…
Which form of pvp? Soloque teamque hotjoin or wvw (roaming or zerk)?
In spvp while not strong (and not weak) we have atleast, until tomorrow (somethings may change for the better or the worse…), some useful build. And apart from mm builds most builds want be in the back to pressure or burst (We can also be op with good team support but thats unrealistic…)
I wish that trait would be better. At the moment i think it is not worth a master slot. Mabye they should increase the damage or something.
Our mobility is the worst in the game. Even Guardians, who also shouldnt be mobil like us are quite mobile. If you play a meditation guardian you can use critters for fast movement (without critters they have only leap of faith as mobility skill). I wish we could do the same with dark path but that skill is too slow for that.
And for dropping the flesh worm and only getting 600-900 thats probably because the path is blocked by terrain. Happens also to other skills of that kind. I the terrain is flat you will get the 1200 range, but maybe that changed. Havent played with flesh worm in a long time.
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
I will buy the new heal skills, test it, then realize Anet hates me and start to cry…
Maybe i will get refund for those wasted skill points…
The problem with the skill is that both it passiv and it active suck…
-The active part has a too long casting time, i think somthing like 2.5 or 2.25 would be better (the 2 sec before the patch was really strong atleast in spvp)
-The passiv, while it should give not much lf, is too weak with it current weak active.
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view. why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free with good control and damage. the cd isnt bad at all. imo ppl need to stop complaining.
What? That signet active will be useless against a competent player… If you dont dodge the mark, simple dodge/block/be invunaruble while the mark is on you (its easy to see if you have it on you). Avoiding for 5 sec all damage is not hard if you arent a necro.
And the passiv has an icd (the active seems to have also an icd per person).
I only see it good in wvw against baddies, but for those taking the signet instead of wob/cc?
Edit: maybe its good for forcing out the defensive cooldowns
with the upcoming HUGE buff to death shroud (-50% instead of 25% LS degen), i think DS is in a great place atm.
we basically get another health bar, more good control abilities, and awesome damage when specced for power.
i dont understand the dislike for ds. any more buffs for it and we will see other parts of necro get a nerf, which would be way worse.
not being able to receive healing in ds is fine, it would be op if we could. some of you want LF generation while in DS? what the hell? what a bad idea. that sounds unbalanced and again nerf-worthy. in wvw we would be better tanks then the heavies because we would be able to sit in DS most of the time.
My main dislike for ds is that we cannot stomp/rez or interact (like portals) in ds, that is really annyoing. While i dont care about the healing part, the problem with that is that it makes siphon builds strange, as they dont work well with our class mechanic.
If it wasnt for that i think ds as mechanic would be fine
Mmhhh i agree with that, so more damage output would help necros in pve?
Devs stated that warriors should take and make the most damage, so group utility or / and unique mechanics would be better.
Well thats what they were trying with the new signet…
I think the problem with unique mechanics is, ether they are too strong thus mandatory or not quite there which wouldnt help necros. A balancing nightmare^^
It is good. The only thing is that they are turning Blood magic into support, which is only half of what it is. It is supposed to be half life stealing (which is always a selfish mechanic) and half support (like the old GW1 Blood is Power).
It is also already a mm trait tree more or less…
Edit: no Grandmaster trait in blood magic is support orientated
mmhh i like the idea, it should take the place of the grandmaster siphon well trait. But its unlikely to happen with thes numbers i think the range is too big, maybe more like that deathmagic trait that stacks vul to near enemies in ds. But with that you will aggroing every mob in pve and wvw^^
@Muchacho This is a problem, but frankly most experienced players can stay alive just fine, or as well as anyone else. The problem is that you cannot match the DPS of a Warrior
I am actually fine with the overall idea of the Necromancer as it is. It is still very much similar in idea to the GW1 Necromancer, which is actually the core basis of what we are as a class, but adapted to a much more active combat system with a simplified buff/debuff system and no “direct” supporting.
It is only the details in how they have executed on that idea that bother me.
Mmhhh i agree with that, so more damage output would help necros in pve?
Its interesting, because in spvp we are indeed more of a burst class, while in wvw in zerg fights we are quite resilient if players die, and in there is the only instance where siphon builds are not subpar (our attrition build). But even there, our burst specs are in an atleast equeal postion.
What’s so vexing for me is that the PvE Meta calls for heavy spike DPS, so a true attrition build would do little to promote Necros in dungeon runs, etc. A proper Minion Master, maybe, but only in the potential to hold off and deal with trash single-handedly.
I dont know how good our zerker spec does in pve content (i am a wvw/spvp player), but i alway thought that our problem was that the bosses tend to have one shot skills, which we cannot handle do lack of vigor, block etc, not the damage output ( dagger+wells).
To me, it seems like there’s a fundamental issue with the class nomenclature versus practice:
1. The concept of a Necromancer is one who throws an inexhaustible army of undead at a target. These undead needn’t be particularly resilient, but should be easily replaceable. Herein lies the issue with the current Minion Master, in that the minions are neither easily reproduceable or numerous. The Mesmer is what the Minion Master should be. If the Necro were to function properly, it’d need a lot of rework toward the end of producing a lot more minions.
2. The present iteration of the Necro is more akin to a attrition-focused Cabalist, but even in this it’s not quite right. My conception of an attrition-class is one that makes anyone that tangles with it pay for the encounter. Victories against this kind of Necro should never be clean. Doable? Most certainly. Clean? Never. Whether it’s a Power or a ConD build, the attrition class needs to be constantly and consistently shaving off the opponent’s health and ability to act. The longer the fight goes the harder it is for the opponent to get an upper hand.
Both of these concepts, however, would require a fundamental re-design of the Necro at the worst, or some serious trait/utility revamping at the best. The Necro at the moment is a burst class, whether or not we like it. Prolonged engagements spell defeat, not victory, for the class that’s supposed to take a messy beating and come out on top—adding the enemy’s corpse to his own army…
Its interesting, because in spvp we are indeed more of a burst class, while in wvw in zerg fights we are quite resilient if players die, and in there is the only instance where siphon builds are not subpar (our attrition build). But even there, our burst specs are in an atleast equeal postion.
I don’t spend a lot of time looking at the stats UI, so I always look for individual items as well on there. I wouldn’t go attacking the devs over that.
Agreed, but it was obvious that they dont play necros often…
The ICD ruined the only niche this heal had. It was going to be a great “Don’t focus the necromancer first” skill because of the back-lash and because it’d heal proportionately to how many people were swinging at the necromancer (granted it would have to not proc from clones) or have an ICD per person, but not a blanket one. The use would have to be better and not have an ICD so it had better play to it, like comboing it with Life Siphon, but yeah. After they tried to “polish” it, they completely ruined any amount of use this skill had, and the fun purpose it had. Now it’s just a garbage healing signet that requires being hit to heal for less than the warrior healing signet, and we get a long cooldown “use” that can be evaded to death from start to end.
Not to mention Leeching isn’t a support mechanic, it’s supposed to be a selfish drain-tank mechanic. We have wells to support a team fight, and Well of Blood is a better team heal than this, easily.
Exactly the signet should have been a more selfish skill. Even if they buff it, in its current from its more of an offensive support heal, and to be honest for support, if choosing between the signet and wob, i would always take the one which heals more (and is relative to that reliable).
So… How did we confirm it has a 1s ICD?
In the livestream they did hover over the skill and it was written there.
Its disappointing, but in the in the state it was in the live stream, siphon builds will be better off with cc. Even if they buff it, as long it is meant as a support heal it will hardly be good for selfish siphon builds.
They should bring back the damage of the passive (i think thats less of a problem with the icd) and reduce the cooldown back to 20 seconds.
I highly doubt Anet will give us stealth. And they dont want us to get away… For us, once in a fight, its either kill or be killed. They were clear that this fact will not change, sadly.
Go for the class u enjoy playing more…
But mobility is king in roaming wvw->ele might be the better choice
And as necros you dont have a good way of stoping enemies from running away, atleast if they know their class and arent a necro.
Actually i would be ok with the skill, if the number were better (shorter cd, more heal).
As i like the idea, however not the implemention (like many other necro things).