Guild Wars 2

Good fight at garrison, Dzagonur from water gate and Gunnars through west wall

Held off for a decent amount of time considering the breaches haha. Lord down at the outer water gate was a wtf moment, and probably surprised Gunnars when you got inside and found nothing to kill

EDIT: Urgh… what was a very enjoyable evening so far has quickly saddened for me.
The past 2hours has been defending vs the Dzagonur forces with very limited numbers, Which is still enjoyable… siege and timed charges are holding off well. But eventually every tower/keep is lost due to same combination that we simply can’t counter with our smaller forces: Trebuchets + Swirling Winds.

Just incase given the nature of the thread so far, not calling it an exploit in the slightest. It’s just.. incredibly frustrating to be backed into a corner by larger numbers (MUCH larger) and not be able to counter-treb/use our mortars due to 3 ele’s stood around a treb. I know the higher tier solution would be portal bomb it, but 5 v 30 you really can’t

Versus larger numbers we still enjoy ourselves normally, but the feeling of “Not much we can do” just went to “Nothing we can do, unless we find 3 ele’s to swirling winds the walls” Really starting to hate these dependencies on certain classes to be effective at sieges.

It’s a little blobbier than we’d like atm – every time we take a tower it gets swarmed back by overwhelming numbers, although our fault for bringing only 7 I guess ^^ – but there’s been some enjoyable fights past 2 days.

Most entertaining so far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2_bN4vc6uE

Gotta ask Shini.. is your guild made of only thieves?

Some cracking fights in GH BL tonight for us, moment of panic when our group was trying to hold vale against GH to get dolyaks into briar, only to have Dzag take down the wall on the other side.

Got a decent video out of vale fights, but had to restart my client after so missed the video of the back and forth between briar/lake.

Look forward to more of the same tomorrow.

We tried bay Shini, We’ve been hopping about zones all day but after 9 hours of RoS trebbing bay we decided it was really about time it was taken… got the outer gate down but got rather swarmed out at the inner

We would’ve tried Briar but with a few of you already inside with siege it was a bit of a no-go

I felt useless other than when my burst skill was ready lol, just can’t stay in melee with a D/d ele, so much mobility and leaving damage behind you as you move ;’(

Fun though

So, currently I’m about 100g and 100globs away from finishing my Juggernaught. I’ve finally seen someone else in game with it and combined with a video of the armor effect on various dyes I’m now a bit unsure if I really want it…

… I started the legendary as simply something to spend my gold on because it was building up for no reason, and I figured a legendary is a decent goal. Hammer being my main weapon it made the logical choice.

I’ve always actually prefered the Magmaton/Colossus skin but (they’re more meaty!) but would’ve liked to have a legendary, however now that I am closer I remembered we are meant to be getting new legendaries introduced at some point – does anyone have any idea of when that might be? If it’s not -too- far down the road I might just hold onto my mat’s incase I like the new hammer more.

It’s just a tooltip error. I used to run 2 x rune of speed, and whilst my signet did not display any extra duration for swiftness over other runes, swiftness always ran out after the might/fury, and easier still you can just hover over the boon when it applies to see timer. The fact my signet came off CD as the boon vanished also showed it working.

Draymos.5489:

Its not like I am doing wvw for fun, I am seeking out battles fighting people for the badges.

I hope that is meant to be “It feels like I’m not doing it for fun anymore” rather than “I don’t play WvW for fun”. Because if enjoyment isn’t the reason you’re here, only badges, then… why bother?

To the 2 ECL Ele’s that my guildie and I have just fought outside Greenvale Refuge;

Nice fight, long but nice. Spent most of it thinking “Stand… Still… PLEASE” or “Why am I a warrior >.>”, but it was a good fight other than the sentry involvement for the first few minutes lol.

Must go level my D/D ele ^^. Also… wtb downed state that can stop itself getting stomped :p Seemed neither of us were able to finish off the bunker ele that was left when the teammate died.

As my initial post said – was a bit fed up that night :P So sorry if I was aggressive, it was also not helped by the other posts of “sPvP or GTFO” nature. We are coming from completely different parts of the game, as you are a PvE player you said? So naturally we see things differently.

My reasons behind not thinking a predominently/completely DPS focused build should have protection is because at 33% damage reduction, that’s pretty hefty and I fear the class becoming strong survival AND damage – it all depends on how it would be implemented of course. Our survival on the whole does need buffing, but with protection being a ‘defensive’ boon it feels like one logical to be put high in the defense tree, making any build that takes it at least not totally damage orientated.

I do find in WvW I kill classes like thieves faster than Warriors/Guardians but that is also majorly due to Thieves average build being glass. Rangers/Engineers can take a fair time to bring down, so I wouldn’t say heavy armor makes a HUGE difference, but it is noticeable.

I certainly agree with you on stability, I run both Last Stand and Balanced Stance because trying to go into the frontlines only to be knocked around every second, when we have our err… survival issues, is painful. I can see why the dev’s are struggling to decide what to do though, Warriors are amazing for low skilled players to pickup and crush other low skilled players, but in skill vs skill it’s a different story. There will also always be the issue that ranged classes have built in survival, allowing them to spec more offensively but if they slip up and let the melee get close they are gone.

Balance is a really hard task, I kinda thing a reverse trait of Berserkers Power would be nice – % less damage taken for adrenaline level, but that would further increase the sitting on adrenaline issue. I believe that the resource itself should be something you are constantly weighing up holding/spending by it’s very nature, yet that the longer the fight progresses the stronger the warrior becomes… the greatsword has a fantastic trait for this in terms of might stacking, allowing a more toughness specced player to build their damage up as time goes on.

Kinda sucks that weapon swap sigils have that 9s CD too But I know why they did that!

I did indeed report him, not saying anything about Dzag btw – just thought it was a good one to add to the screenshot collection haha.

I have never had an issue with badges. From my experience, being in a zerg = very few loot bags = very few badges. Being in a smaller group = a loot bag for every kill = lots of badges.

Problem is hanging around in a blob.

ODB.6891:

Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS)

You couldn’t be more wrong. I roll a hammer, I find the greatsword boring and frankly overshadows our other weapons far too much in every aspect but CC. I am also not a bunker player, I have high armor but I am not a bunker, nor am I a shout warrior. You are making an incredibly large amount of assumptions.

I agree, heavy armor does not change much. But it is still there, and specced for DPS a warrior can still push numbers higher than the majority of classes. Hating on ‘deeps’? not really, but I am not blind to the damage we can output.

Sigh, all this simply because I said I don’t believe something described as “glass” should have access to one of the best defensive boons available.

Recently.1043:

go play some spvp, get to at least rank10 minimum (doesn’t take that long) playing only warrior. Play free tourneys at least also, and watch what happens to a warrior in those fights. You don’t understand until you try it yourself sorry.

Level 10? Check.
Played on warrior? Check
Free Tournies? Check

Warriors issues in sPvP are different to WvW. It is hardly “PvP for dummies”, there is more stat combinations available, and newsflash: it’s part of the game so it is still something needing consideration. It’s a different manner of play, sPvP involves fighting over small points which can be easily covered by necro wells or have a guardian push you off constantly.

I have played sPvP, but I play more WvW and it is a different set of issues there. Yes, there is more viability but it doesn’t mean it has problems. I would rather comment on the medium that I know more about. You must also remember that not all WvW combat is a blob, I for one prefer fights to be around 10v10, whilst sPvP I find to be majorly 1v2.

There was another thread, now buried deep in the forums, about a warriors survival issues in WvW. We are a class that spends the majority of its time in the front lines where we are under attack from lots of players, have to stand in multiple AoE’s. Now I don’t expect to survive forever, but generally our survival is well below that of a guardian or d/d ele. We simply do not have any way to mitigate the damage beyond toughness. Burst damage in WvW on the other hand, is mostly easy to land so is in that sense quick opposite of sPvP.

Of course, I am wasting my time here due to the usual implication that players of a different game type are second class citizens. Simple fact is no, not every build is viable, unless of course you run in a zerg.

EDIT: as there has been more posts since I refreshed, @ ODB.
I have not been “gibbed by 100b”, I actually think 100b is utterly terrible and it makes me sad to see how many players swing it at thin air with frenzy on, then do eviscerate straight after like they have it all macroed together. Whirlwind however is another matter, that one is much harder to avoid and still does kitten good damage.

The reason I mentioned 100b is because it is the typical ability that players tend to rate damage with, it is also one of our best burst abilities and as such an example of how hard we can hit when we land it. I don’t think that hitting that hard should come with the level of defense that Protection+Heavy armor+High HP can provide.

At that stage we may as well be a guardian with more hp (Joke of course.. although they do hit waaay too hard for their survival >.>)

Because I can see that 20k 100b’s with protection up would be ridiculous? Our damage in DPS builds is fine and our survival is where it should be for something phrased “Glass” cannon.

As I said, I come from a WvW perspective, and even running with over 3k armor I die the second Endure Pain runs out, unless I have our support ele nearby.

To the Dza defenders at RoS bay just now:

Sorry for wasting your time, our last few guild members logged off so we were left with kittenistance who when attacked by a mortar just stand on a cliff watching, oblivious to the 4 guys attacking the trebs behind them. Apparently pre-aiming trebs for people so they hit the mortar build site (you know, so you couldn’t rebuild it) is not enough to prevent them turning and firing at random unbreakable wall sections.

So yes, sorry for wasting your time defending that keep – you probably could’ve gone to sleep and it would still stand in the morning.

Regards – Late night player who shares your boredom :P

hoschi.8693:

I’ve seen several trait effects not triggering since one of the last updates…

Last Stand – don’t see that triggering anymore, same with the traits that auto trigger Defy Pain and Shake it Off at certain health levels…

Anyone can confirm this ?

Not tried Endure Pain/Shake it Off traits, but Last Stand works for me just fine. Infact it applies the stun break/stability so fast you don’t even get interupted by the CC Great for stomping!

Nameplates don’t show at the same height either (would look weird so understandable) so Asura’s are able to hide behind smaller objects, definitely.

Having harder to read animations DOES help… can’t tell you number of times my Hammer burst/backbreaker gets dodged on my Norn warrior because of the big “I’m going to stun you” swing, whereas half the asuran animations involve a flip so it’s hard to tell :p

Pre-emptive – I think I just reached my logging off point tonight after every fight being ‘get the warrior first’ and feeling rather soft.

Right now I can’t say why the warrior doesn’t feel/seem effective… but what I’ve noticed, is if I’m in 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 whatever…. I’m the first target. Running round with an ele and meet a thief? he goes for the warrior first. That shouldn’t be the case… heavy armor class should not be the first target of a thief.

Outside of a greatsword, our escape is terrible compared to others, our survival skills are weaker and in general there’s just little we can do to up that survival… first target to focus is the warrior in almost every fight. Most days I feel like changing to glass cannon out of “I won’t last much longer anyway”.

Considering giving up my hammer for a greatsword (which would suck cos I’ve almost got Juggernaught) due to one ability: Whirlwind Attack. Escape, very high damage, and it’s a lot harder to miss with it than it is with something like 100b (even a combo’ed 100b is easily avoidable… most 100b warriors I take no damage from the 100b, WW does it all). This is the kind of ability we need on our weapons. Although on the GS front I gotta say.. when Rush hits its a flipping truck, using it point blank is insane.

Most of all, I put our effectivity problems down to survival. There’s no flashy bubbles, protection, ride the lightning, teleports or heals on weapons etc. You wait for Endure Pain to end, and then hope. Okay so I can say a general idea of why, but I can’t pinpoint the issues.

I agree with Schwar that we need tweaks, not some sort of mega-buff. How is the question. We lack the damage prevention tools outside of dodging (available to all), endure pain (CD is insane and doesnt stop condi’s) or Shield Stance. This I think is the core issue for it, however it would have to be very careful that such things weren’t available to the glass warriors…. and that’s where another problem occurs, because the glass part is stats not traits. If they for instance gave us protection via a trait, a glass warrior could still pick it up and gain a huge boost (33% is a lot after all) to survival.

I get the feeling that people assume guardians get protection to offset their low hp, but the combination of reduced damage + heals (same for ele) is better than more hp any day. For a frontline (predominently) melee class we have surprisingly little ways to stay there.

Lastly before I stop rambling with things that people will massively disagree on… everyone seems to do different aspects of gameplay which make us have very different viewpoints on what the issue is. The warriors issues in sPvP are completely different to in WvW. Everyone claims that in WvW anything works, but that’s not exactly true, builds are far more varied there due to the different stat mixtures, but you will often find yourself in amongst 20 or so players and you just can’t last there – whilst a guardian or ele can.

As such, that’s why I think the warrior needs more tools to mitigate damage (but the issue is no way to seperate it from glass cannons unless its a trait/ability based on toughness somehow) so it can do its job in WvW, but this may inbalance it in sPvP. A blowout or proper punt asides from stomp would be nice in either though.

Err, yeah. 5:40am, disgruntled probably not my most coherent or well thought out post!

Personally I’d trade my #2 AND #3 for vapor form, even in the open! I’m a warrior, I don’t know if others agree with me there but I’d certainly like the AoE stomp prevention and return to my team – EVEN if it couldn’t go into gates.

Inconclusive are a (last seen) 250+ guild so it’ll be hard to track down the exact culprit, but when I see their leader online I shall whisper him.

It’s already been mentioned in the other thread but Dza has flown into 3 keeps, SM and 2 toers today so none of us are clean. Doesn’t change the fact that the guy needs banning though – don’t misinterpret that me

Blurred Frenzy is basically 50% dmg 100b, with evade added to it and shorter cast time.

We just lost hills without any broken walls/gates, and [PRO] guild just found trying to kill lord inside garrison – all walls/gates on 100% (I’m there now). No mesmers or anything like that, keeps been ours for several hours and there were players inside it the whole time… all of a sudden keep lords hp bar is dropping.

Imp’s 3 man team grew tired of your ([IL]) thief groups in our BL at about 4am and went to your BL/EB to see if we could claw some points out there, managed to cap a tower in your BL and our corner back in EB and get it upgraded quite steadily.

… Then the 40 man blob came and took it all back after throwing 6 catapults at the keep walls, at pretty much the same time that we took our BL back actually, seems we both woke up just in different zones lol. I was the only one in EB at one point

So while you were destroying catapults at bay wall I was destroying your catapults at overlook wall… something’s not right there >.>

Well, if people want to move they can move I have nothing against it – I moved to RoS from Gandara at the beginning of the week longer matchups to avoid queues! Wasn’t trying to criticise for the record, just had a sort of deja-vu of that first meeting with Dzagonur being a very unexpected “WTF Numbers o.O” moment.

Who knows.. maybe in future you’ll see me under a Dzagonur tag

The matchup I speak of was the second of the 1 week matchups. Dzagonur were, at the end of the 1st 1 week matchup in last place on the ladder, 27th. Ruins of Surmia were in the tier above and then moved down to the bottom tier, thinking “We should be okay here”.

Dzagonur had been in last place for as long as the rankings had been up – last on the ladder, not last in the bracket (although technically same thing). Then they steamrolled with 100% zone control 24/7, ballistas outside spawns etc.

HtFde.3856:

Neandramathal.9536:

Interestingly enough, the first time that Ruins of Surmia fought Dzagonur (back around 2.5months ago) they were in last place, and then got a massive influx – rumoured around 1000 people, but who knows – from Millers Sound… causing them to go from lowest server to one with queues all the time.

Well – seriously – get better informants.

Get better reading skills :P

I said “2.5 months ago”, that was very important part

Interestingly enough, the first time that Ruins of Surmia fought Dzagonur (back around 2.5months ago) they were in last place, and then got a massive influx – rumoured around 1000 people, but who knows – from Millers Sound… causing them to go from lowest server to one with queues all the time.

I’ve not seen any cheating myself yet, just sheer numbers… so so many numbers >.< I’m still a strong believer that you can beat a zerg by splitting up and capping 2+ while they cap one… but sadly supply is the limitation here. It works fine for say 2 groups of 20 vs a group of 40 capping, but not 2 groups of 5 vs 40, 4 rams takes down a gate incredibly quick.

Scores @ 4:30am GMT.

Wow Dzagonur have increased in numbers since last time we were here! SOOO many at Hills.

o.O

In advance, good luck to all! This should be a reasonably close matchup outside of night time.

Maybe Ruins can stay up this time? :O

40 frames is the time the 2nd strike hits, and 60 is the time of the first strike for triple chop. The end of Double Chop is 45. I should’ve written in that one in, concentrating on getting the numbers for the full chain down D’oh. Thanks for pointing out.

If you only have X seconds to output the damage it matters when the strike is, if not then it’s about length of the attack in total (due to repeat).

Schwahrheit.4203:

why should Mesmers be able to go invulnerable every 45 seconds with little effort?

You mean every 10(8 traited) seconds right? Blurred Frenzy! ;D

From what I understand looking at the original class descriptions on gw2.com, this was how stances were originally intended – although it said “Energy” so I assume it was adrenaline it drained to stay active (obviously not Berserker’s Stance).

I would much prefer it in that manner as it gives a bit more depth to the class.

A possible though was having them as the F2-4 somewhat like the engineer toolbelt… tied to your utility, one being active like now and the other (“tool” or utility) being either toggle or just a passive. I’m not sure if that would work, probably a bit too close to Engineer’s that there would be objections/issues.

Stances do seem like something that could be part of a profession mechanic but they would have to be weaker due to their no longer taking a utility slot. I know people have suggested having an F2-4 as shouts or banners built into the class (weaker versions) so further alternative is to have them as not a toggle but that “one stance is always active” without the adrenaline drain part, and F2-4 switch which one is active – of course being far weaker than existing stances (perma quickness would be a bit OP… but say the Endure Pain passive one would be % damage reduction).

There are many different ways we could adjust stances, either as profession mechanic or just by the turning them into a toggle. They would definitely need adjusting if they were changed in functionality though. Personally I’d like them changing just so we had more depth to the class :P

Recently.1043:

Whats the frame count from the end of the TC 3rd hit to C hit (restart cycle)?

I get it as 10 frames from end of TC to start of C, and 5 from end of DC to start of TC.

I think both have good racials, but the Asuran gets the edge due to animations being harder to read and being able to hide behind smaller objects.

Unfortunately I have been playing a Norn from the start and grown accustomed to the camera, so when I now try play my Asuran Necromancer and attempt to tilt the camera up to see the wall of a tower my head fills the screen (due to the angles and there being less distance before the camera hits the floor and is forced in).

So, if I were you I’d try them out in the mists or somewhere first to make sure you are comfortable with cameras/animations and such, they play a bigger part in being comfortable with your character than you’d think.

Sorry just to clarify for you there Sami, my list of frame numbers are from the beginning of each attack.

So for example #1/#2 are the number of frames it takes for the first and second hits of double chop to occur after casting double chop, not the beginning of the total chain.

So if you want total frames from the beginning of Chop it should be (as there is also a small delay at the end of Double Chop, approx 5 frames).

Start = 0
Chop = 15
Double Chop 1st hit = 27
Double Chop 2nd hit = 40
Triple Chop 1st hit = 60
Triple Chop 2nd hit = 75
Triple Chop 3rd hit = 95
End of Chain = 105.

So:
Chop-Double Chop frames = 40
Chop-Triple Chop frames = 105

Going from SirDiealot’s data a full rotation is 360×0.1seconds = 3.6seconds (or at 30fps, 108frames).

As mentioned above, I imagine the reason for it being soulbound is to prevent mailing to a siege – i.e “Come prepared”.

If this would be considered an exploit then surely so is killing an enemy and picking up the blueprint they were carrying. This promotes teams to work together to acquire siege, as they cannot donate the badges required to buy it (and really who uses gold pfft).

zone.1073:

You measure damage based on the plays that you can do within a given amount of time.

The fact is, triple chop is the strongest burst out of all the axe attacks. If all of the hits crit, it’s even stronger than a crit eviscerate. As a Warrior, you’re not going to be spending more than 5 seconds using the axe, because you’ll be swapping to a different weapon set to maximize your damage, so it’s all about how much burst can you do within 5 seconds. Swapping to axes and then eviscerating already takes about 2 seconds of your time – that means you have about 3 seconds of axe-attacking before you swap to something else. 1-2-3 chain from axe #1 is stronger than 1-2-1-2 chain within 3 seconds.

If you have 3 seconds to attack, and C+DC takes 1.5seconds, and C+DC+TC takes 3.5seconds, you could execute C+DC+C+DC+C in that time (the 3.5 not the 3). Which as we have determined already by the numbers in this thread, is more damage in the same amount of time. Hence, more “Burst”.

C+DC deal more damage than TC does in the given time period. The only time this isn’t true is if you can only cast the first hit of TC. That’s pretty much the whole point of this thread.. it doesn’t matter that TC does more damage per cast, it’s that that cast takes so much longer that it is less damage.

You can’t say “DPS is irrelevant” and then say “You have only 3 seconds to attack, you must do the most damage possible” … That’s what DPS is after all.. Damage Per Second. Now, if we were comparing abilities that did better DPS but took 2 seconds to cast before dealing ANY damage (and thus not fitting the 2nd cast in the time gap) this would be fine, but we are not.

I would love for TC to be the better option but so far evidence supports the opposite. Unfortunately, I can’t do a frame comparison of allowing it to autoattack vs cancelling it because the option isn’t there anymore. This would’ve been great to do last week >.<

For the record I’m not saying “Shut up I’m right, TC is less DPS!” but using what is available to me and best analysis I can do of videos that’s the conclusion I’ve come to. There are people who are far better with videos than I who I hope can also do such tests, the biggest issue for me is where does one skill end and the next begin.

The hammer trait being in the defense line does make sense, as hammers are more of a defensive weapon.

It seems they want us to use Axe/GS more than other weapons though as they have more traits available. This intrigues me, I know we are meant to deal damage but with Hammer/Mace only being available to the two heavy armor classes, and us meant to be “frontliners” the hammer would in my eyes make more sense to be the weapon emphasised for the Warrior. As such I would’ve thought a 2nd hammer trait somewhere would make sense.

The existing trait is a nice trait, but is completely shut down by stability, as are the other 2 traits that work with the hammer (Distracting Strikes and Unsuspecting Foe – although the latter only works with the F1).

I’d love to see a second hammer trait in the strength tree, that wasn’t dependant on the enemy being stunned… stunning is the basis of the hammer so it would be odd to disconnect it from that, but it’s just too easy to kill the weapon.

Tammuz.7361:

Neandramathal.9536:

Deria.9158:

Also, DPS is not the only consideration. Each strike gives adrenaline, and each strike can crit, and each strike can proc an effect.

The reason that Triple Chop is worse than repeating Chop/Double Chop is because it takes longer to do those 3 hits, than the previous 3. So adrenaline/proc’s are still more efficient with cancelling it. 3 hits is 3 hits, but 3 hits faster is better :P

Deria.9158:

EDIT: Also, are you sure about the math? The Wiki link says Triple Chop hits for 858 × 3, not 858 × 1. I’m not in game to check, but I thought the damage number is not a cumulative total but rather the amount each strike does. I could be wrong, though, as I’m not online to look right now.

Math is correct, many people have pointed it out in the past (myself included), the numbers on the tooltip are cumulative.

Double Chop = Damage (2x): 538
Triple Chop = Damage (3x): 858
100b = Damage (8x): 1,624
Whirling Axe = Damage (15x): 1,005

If it wasn’t cumulative then Double Chop would do 1076, Triple Chop 2574, 100b 12992 and Whirling Axe a whopping 15075 on BASE tooltip damage.

Which we all know isn’t even close

actually those latter numbers sound about right for the actual damage you do with the one exception of whirling axe… and not including crits of course…

whens the last time you did a 100b at level 80 for 1.6k total damage?

Tooltip numbers are based off damage vs a target with 2600 armor if I remember correctly?

The Greatsword chain #1 lists as 259 – compare that to the 100b’s 1600 and now it sounds correct doesn’t it, because when was the last time your GS AA hit for less than 1k at level 80?

Needless to say, as you can see from the testing figures… C/DC/TC is certainly a cumulative tooltip.

There is a slight delay between DC and TC, I forgot to factor it into my initial listing of “DPF”, but it still makes both C/DC better damage than TC.

I’ve corrected my original post to reflect. It’s interesting to see that the tooltips don’t match my video though, they state that Chop takes .25seconds and it’s actually .5seconds. Double Chop is also the only one of the 3 that doesn’t have a cast bar.

Previously when you could cancel the Triple you still got the first hit of it, which was the fastest of the 3 (at the same speed as Chop). I would imagine that is why they changed it, as that 3rd hit gave you the following:

Chop = 2.2
Double Chop = 2.33
Triple Chop (1 strike) = 2.53

Currently – from my steady axe test – it takes 105 frames for a full execution (15+30+60 respectively) and deals 217. So a damage per frame of 2.06, which is worse than spamming Chop >.> However cancelling just after the initial hit of Triple Chop like you did before when you spammed #1, gave you 141 damage in 60 frames, for a total of 2.35 damage per frame average.

Of course.. it’s not a flat number across every frame/millisecond so if you only get a certain amount of time to attack there will be some perfect time (say the enemy pulls out of range between swings) that you deal better damage by letting triple chop activate. This perfect spot is probably if the enemy pulls away JUST after the 2nd strike of Triple Chop connects, then you’d be glad you used Triple Chop. It’s the 3rd hit that’s the time consuming one.

I’m hoping my data/maths is correct, I’d hate to sound like I’m being all smart and it be a total fail For the record I did this by going to the mists, recording at 30fps and then opened it in Sony Vegas clicking forward frame by frame in the preview.

But why should the GS be self sufficient when the other weapons are not? It’s already the strongest weapon we have because it is more self sufficient than the others. Literally all its lacking is CC so give it that and theres no reason to change to your other set.

The only reason tbh that Arcing Slice isn’t used is because we have high Fury uptime already, it’s not because it’s a bad ability itself.

Steady axe vs heavy golem testing, no traits or amulet

Tooltips
Chop = 34
Double Chop = (x2) 72
Triple Chop = (x3) 114

Damage Dealt
Chop = 33
Double Chop = 35, 35
Triple Chop = 38, 38, 38

Clearly the tooltip IS cumulative. Now, I also (because I have nothing better to do) flicked through frames to count the DPS – it’s 30fps in the video but it doesnt really matter as its a comparison of one ability to the next.

Frames from button press to Damage Hit
Chop = 15 frames
Double Chop = #1 @ 12 frames, #2 @ 25 frames
Triple Chop = #1 @ 15 frames, #2 @ 30 frames, #3 @ 50 frames
Time between last Triple Chop damage and beginning of next Chop attack = 10 frames

Double Chop activates instantly after Chop strikes.
Triple Chop takes a total of 60 frames due to a 10 frame delay before Chop begins again.

Double chop takes slightly less than double the time for Chop to deal damage but has a slight delay at the end before Triple Chop begins , whereas Triple Chop takes double the time of Double Chop.

This does show the tooltips are slightly off (well, that’s how it appears on video >.>) as the Chop is listed as .25s before damage and its actually more like .5 (let it cycle a few times on AA as well to check).

Total DPF
Chop = 2.2
Double Chop = 2.33
Triple Chop = 1.9

I could be wrong, and it would be great if someone else tested as well, but that’s my findings.

Edit: Fixed double chop DPF, forgot to include the 5 frame pause before Triple Chop began into the length of the attack.

4900k would be a bit excessive yes ;D

The loss of 12% from Berserkers power would not outweigh the 2seconds of quickness gained at all, considering 2seconds of quickness basically means for 2seconds do double damage. It would be insanely overpowered to have 2seconds of quickness every 10seconds…

It would also pretty much just give a great big pointer of “use arcing slice then 100b” and make frenzy redundant. No 50% incoming damage (although that’s a joke imho too :P and if it wasn’t for the 100b combo I think it wouldn’t be needed) and 20% uptime instead of frenzies 6% uptime.

Personally, even if arcing slice is currently weak I think the greatsword on the whole is just TOO good in comparison to the other weapons. I hate using it, and so most the time don’t, but feel like I’m crippling myself by not doing so. It’s one of our highest DPS weapons, with the best mobility (arcing slice to movement skill… just no, no) and an evade >.> Then it’s trait adds might for every crit to boost its damage further!? (as well as having a 2nd trait for +10% damage) essentially turning into THE BEST DPS we have.

Almost all of our melee skills are 3. Only skills purposefully listing AoE tend to be 5, 3rd hit in the hammer chain is 5 however.

Deria.9158:

Also, DPS is not the only consideration. Each strike gives adrenaline, and each strike can crit, and each strike can proc an effect.

The reason that Triple Chop is worse than repeating Chop/Double Chop is because it takes longer to do those 3 hits, than the previous 3. So adrenaline/proc’s are still more efficient with cancelling it. 3 hits is 3 hits, but 3 hits faster is better :P

Deria.9158:

EDIT: Also, are you sure about the math? The Wiki link says Triple Chop hits for 858 × 3, not 858 × 1. I’m not in game to check, but I thought the damage number is not a cumulative total but rather the amount each strike does. I could be wrong, though, as I’m not online to look right now.

Math is correct, many people have pointed it out in the past (myself included), the numbers on the tooltip are cumulative.

Double Chop = Damage (2x): 538
Triple Chop = Damage (3x): 858
100b = Damage (8x): 1,624
Whirling Axe = Damage (15x): 1,005

If it wasn’t cumulative then Double Chop would do 1076, Triple Chop 2574, 100b 12992 and Whirling Axe a whopping 15075 on BASE tooltip damage.

Which we all know isn’t even close

Deria.9158:

How fast IS Warrior’s Sprint?

Also, if you have it and apply Swiftness are you X percent faster from Warrior’s Sprint and Y percent faster from Swiftness (ie: cumulative) or does Swiftness just set your movement rate to the base + 33 percent (ie: not cumulative)?

Has anyone done any tests?

As far as I am aware the trait is 10%, and I have certainly never heard of it being cumulative. I know the Necro dagger trait is not cumulative with the signet but haven’t tested Sprint+Swiftness since BWE1.

Stability basically crushes hammers effectiveness. You can’t stun (F1 or #5), which also means you lose the beneift of the hammer trait of +25% dmg vs stunned targets.