Guild Wars 2

Kill people, and don’t do it by hiding in a zerg.

Lost count of how many I’ve had. All invaders jewelry pieces bought, 4 exotic weapons, 2 exotic armor pieces, 750 in bank ready for feb update and couldn’t count how much I’ve spent on siege – I’ve never spent gold on siege, ever. Took 2 days to get the gift of battle.

I’ve never struggled to earn badges, but it is largely dependant on the way you play. Each kill can only drop a certain amount of loot, if there is 50 people trying to claim ownership over that loot you won’t get a lot, if there’s only 10 of you.. well.

Ventus.9483:

Confirming there aren’t 200 active wvw’rs on WSR at any time

Doesn’t matter, you can’t get 200 into zone anyway ;D

If this goes ahead, [Imp] shall probably roam another zone rather than sit through the culling and zergs :P We don’t like larger fights to begin with, and we’re not really a fan of “let’s form a big group especially to make use of the culling in our favour” either simply because it’s boring :P But, I’d like to get some decent fights before the end of the week as for far it is a case of being lucky enough to find it before the blob arrives, and that is rather slim. I’m sure all 3 sides will have some people taking advantage of this event to do some sneaky capping, I aim to be there to be a pain

I like the idea, getting one big warzone going and honestly defending is often more fun than attacking. The rigidity may make it less enjoyable but it’s less rigid than GvG fights.

What I mean by rigidity, and why I have not yet made any GvG fights – is that if you run into another guild or another group in open ground, the situation is extremely different. Let’s say you own bay and your opponent owns garrison, you bump into each other around the sentry.. both sides have a retreat point – not to actually retreat to, but to give the impression of. You can drop back luring them away from their safety, making them think you are on the run so they become more reckless, then smash em. In a straight up GvG fight this doesn’t really happen, because no ones going to think “Oh they’re running away!!!” if they pull back, simply “They’re forming up”. You also go in with optimum conditions etc.

This idea has a little of that rigidity, you know it’s coming, you are prepared and there’s no sneaking down 50% of the gate before a defender spots you… but it’s less rigid than the GvG format, because everything and anything goes.

Ventus.9483:

Neandramathal.9536:

Some may be, others certainly aren’t. I am one of the latter. I prefer to be outnumbered.

o7

Wish the rest of them were like you Not seen much of IMP at all this week

We’re bored

Psst, Yorric… They’ve been fighting us past 3 weeks :p

Krosan.2890:

This is going to be boring as hell but it seems like GH is enjoying themselves.

Some may be, others certainly aren’t. I am one of the latter. I prefer to be outnumbered.

What I’d like to know actually, is did the RoS xfers only occur because of the vabbi ones? or would they have joined anyway.

@ Crunchwell, the reason they chose vabbi was there was no existing guilds to organise. However I think it was very silly to expect people to join the server, most people’s ego’s do simply not allow them to sit in the bottom tier even if only temporarily. The people who that isn’t an issue for on the other hand, simply don’t wish to dominate every week and be bored while they wait to find their appropriate spot on the ladder.

Depending on how many of the FoW population is left after low morale suffering I think WSR/FoW could be quite evenly matched. Vabbi however…

Well, I’m okay with saying it, I’m bored and frustrated!

I would probably move off but the guild is very split with some prefering up and some down, gunnar’s was a nice happy medium for us all, had numbers but wasn’t that zergy. Other than that… I’ve just begun to think that whilst paid xfers will reduce it, no matter how good a server feels it can all change overnight.

Good luck in future endeavours WSR/RoF, probably won’t see me much this week But here’s to fond memories of last week…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYhSdV6Ry0

They are +6 to respective stats.

Personally, I am not pleased with the decision due to various concerns. Before I continue however I’d like to point out it is not due to Xaoc themselves, simply the rapid increase in numbers.

I was none too pleased with their previous joining the bottom tier (or likewise the other ex-Blacktide guilds joining) due to the imbalance that occurs, and as such am object to this for the same reason. It doesn’t matter what guild it is when it is of this size, it is horrible.

For Gunnar’s Hold itself, I am firmly of the belief that after various guild exoduses…exodus..exodii….. err, leavings, they have had to find a tier comfortable for themselves before beginning to rebuild. Tier 8 was that tier and it was evident, as they began by scraping by in 2nd place and eventually overcoming Ring of Fire through hard work of the community (NOT mass transfers) in terms of organising server events and trying to entice players from PvE to join in.

The server is now on the verge of tiering up and it is a great testament to their work, regardless of how difficult the task ahead in tier 7 may (potentially) be. I would much rather meet that challenge on the underdog side and have to work extremely hard – find out if the numbers are required AFTER we arrive – than pull numbers in in advance only to find it is too much and we are in for weeks of boredom before we yet again, find our comfortable place on the ladder. I am however understanding that the timing is very bad with the paid transfers coming up, and so if there is to be transfers/recruitment at any point, now is the time it will have to be.

I am concerned as to the reasons that the numbers are so welcomed, that possibly people are more concerned with rising tiers than they are simply having a comfortable and balanced match on the way. But not everyone has the same desires and it would be wrong to expect that. The numbers influx has both imbalanced this tier – which was already suffering from the usual problem every server faces of “we’re losing I won’t bother this week” – and will likely cause us to have fairly dominant matchups for the next few weeks too.

Again, I would like to state this is not about Xaoc as a guild. The Gunnar’s community are doing what they believe is best for the server, and I cannot fault them for that. My opinion being as it is is simply a difference in what I enjoy out of the game, having been in the bottom tiers all along and playing in a small guild. I also have concerns that this will undo the organisational work that has been done by allowing us to function purely on a numbers basis.

Erm, post is a little longer than I intended. But yes, regardless of the implications of my post or my own concerns or unhappiness about it, I can assure that the decision was deliberated over and it is certainly not a case of everyone changing their minds due to it being us receiving the transfers.

Regards,
Freyn [Imp]

There were very mixed reactions and a lot of deliberation, however the details of the decision are not really of concern outside of the GH community so I won’t say anything else on the subject.

In regards to this, Xaoc only moved over today – up until now the 2 guild statement has been perfectly accurate.

However, it would be great if we could keep the entirity of the numbers whine to a single thread, wouldn’t it.

Regarding the second comment – all I will say is it depends on why you think this goes against ‘community driven’.

bhavvels.1962:

Quoted the truth

Neandramathal maybe you should come to WSR

Well whether Gunnar’s consider my guild an asset or not is up for question too :P

WSR? Nah, I predict WSR/Vabbi/FoW matches very soon and I’m tired of those

Krosan.2890:

Anyway good to know your not attacking WSR, thanks for the confirmation. The number one server with a 20k lead is only out for easy points…ok…

Reading comprehension seems to be falling short, so I’m going to call and end to my participation in this particular discussion topic.

Yorric Hunt.8214:

Well im happy here and im sure GH will vouch that we are an asset to them as well.

Well.. Dunno if I’d go THAT far

Looking at the map atm, WSR are pushing further than RoF.

It’s not due to GH pushing RoF more, as we have only a small presence in each BL as I write this, and EB we are fighting both.

Given WSR has actually lost guilds and RoF were the previously dominant faction (we a few weeks ago yes) it’s interesting that WSR are now pushing them back. So, going from what we can see so far I can only guess the numbers difference is more created by morale/frustration differences between the servers than actual player counts.

Winning server always gets players joining in, losing always gets them dropping off. Just the way it is.

bhavvels.1962:

Neandramathal.9536:

OchrisO.8450:

end of the day GH have had about 3-4 wsr guilds so gh will out number rof one of the guilds being rddt, so people from gh can stop saying that rof has more numbers ^^

No one has said RoF has more, at best I have said that RoF has more CONSISTENT numbers across the time zones.

GH has more, I don’t think anyone is denying it, just not as many as are claimed by comments like “3v1”.

Yea, the unbalance happens at certain time periods which you mentioned some posts back, but yea things go 3v1 during the timings when more of GH users are proactive and a spike of GH turn up but once the dust has settled RoH and WSR just take the areas back we need

Well, since I logged on this morning I’ve seen WSR and RoF both in the highest ticks. With WSR having (apparently) lost a large bulk of their guilds and yet still getting into highest tick it’s either vastly superior organisation, or that the numbers are far more mythical than people suggest :P

OchrisO.8450:

end of the day GH have had about 3-4 wsr guilds so gh will out number rof one of the guilds being rddt, so people from gh can stop saying that rof has more numbers ^^

No one has said RoF has more, at best I have said that RoF has more CONSISTENT numbers across the time zones.

GH has more, I don’t think anyone is denying it, just not as many as are claimed by comments like “3v1”.

For further clarification on numbers and what I am refering to with RoF being more consistent and GH being more of an ‘evening spike’, right now RoF have the highest points tick. Generally is this time of day.

First time we broke into bay with the golems last night there was 10 of us (Our guild group) there, and about 30 RoF judging by the sheer number on the walls and in the inner gate when it broke. We got pushed back out except for 2 of us who were in the water with the 1 remaining golem.

Ring of Fire then pushed out after the rest of our forces, and our guild returned through the north outer gate (broken by said golem while this was going on) and then worked on the north inner, while 15 went to the east inner.

You had more on our original push but they all left the keep by the time we came back in. Still nice to know our 10 man guild group at the north gate is classifiable as a zerg though.

During the week I tend to spend my daytime in EB, and the size of the RoF groups that hit Quentin lake on average (always seem to converge there for some reason) are enourmous…. for whatever reason after Quentin that zerg seems to break up.

RoF certainly come online earlier in the day, usually starting around 7am with a fair push in EB. Numbers are more consistent across all time zones whereas GH spike during the evening. Last night there were server events every other day which is where our largest pushes came. Let’s not also forget that RoF also stated they had a few server events, and on the nights in question pushed very hard into GH BL whilst also holding a fair chunk of EB and their own BL, having the highest points income.

When each server does an event they tend to get the lead tick and push harder than normal, Ring of Fire can manage it when they want to and we have seen this. Yes, GH do have the larger numbers at the moment but it is not this 3:1 that is being claimed, and it is only really bigger for a couple of hours a night (excluding events) – whereas RoF I can garauntee outnumber us early morning. Whether you see the early morning numbers difference is another matter.

Not really sure why I put the time into typing that, especially when I’m cranky haven just woken up :P Really, this is all just a little tiresome. Only 2 guilds have joined since a few weeks ago when RoF were the dominant server in the tier, so if numbers have increased it is due to recruiting from within.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/GH-vs-RoF-vs-WSR-Take-3

:) – Getting a bit heated already.

Okay, this all seems to be getting a little silly.

Tonight, Gunnar’s certainly had more people that Ring of Fire active – that’s a fact. But let’s not exaggerate about the amount you were outnumbered by. The pushes back into Garrison in your borderlands were very heavy that can’t be disputed. When you killed the lord literally every player on the map was pulled in to try and save it – to an extent yes we were more mobile, but of course it is not the entire reason.

There is a numbers difference, but there has been (to my knowledge) 2 guilds join GH since RoF last beat them, one of them being my own and numbering a whole 10 players. So the majority of the numbers are coming from within the server, be it PvE’ers getting involved in WvW or simply players coming out the woodwork because they saw victory.

Once again, there is a numbers difference but it is not 2:1, 3:1 or anything like that. Our forces HAVE been extremely mobile tonight, rarely standing still for more than 10 seconds other than when firing treb’s.

Going from last week, Ring of Fire tend to have the numerical advantage early morning and late night, having a more consistent coverage across the entire day. Gunnar’s coverage fluctuates greatly, coming in fair surges and peaking towards the end of primetime. Reset night will always be an oddity though, for all servers.

Am I surprised that people are going for the numbers argument – not at all. I’m not disappointed/surprised about the lack of “well played”‘s either, I just think it’s a shame that things seem to becoming so heated within mere hours of the matchup despite reset always being the most unstable time of any matchup in any tier.

Looking at the night so far, and last week, I would say that GH certainly have more numbers when we reach our full prime-time, whereas Ring of Fire seem to have smaller but more constant numbers.

At reset Gunnars comes out all guns blazing then die off about 2 hours later, on a general nights play our numbers are mostly gone by 1-2am. Ring of Fire seems (certainly this week) to have been active until 4am~ and back online around 7am for a solid push in EB.

Darkstorn.5423:

It has also been mentioned that our numbers are the same while having at least double our numbers everywhere = not the same

Not saying we don’t outnumber you, for the reasons Hyinna said.

What I am saying, is that reset is not a good representation.

It has been mentioned in each matchup thread so far, Gunnars strength is the reset and it always has been.

Good luck to all, let’s see what this week brings

Now try do it without being in a D/D ele ^^.

Surmia have outnumbered FoW for months, not as heavily as they do now sure, but they still outnumbered them.

More on topic however, as someone who has previously fought on both RoS and FoW. The whole “We learnt to fight better because we didn’t have numbers” implies that the outcome is equal with each force having a different strength, one side using numbers the other using skill, we know however that the fight is NOT equal – the numbers side wins every time.

Both sides have been thought their “learn to play” phases when Vabbi had the upper hand the first time around, and neither side particularly improved. When Surmia became the dominant faction (due to numbers, yes that is why) for that 6 weeks or so they became more complacent and lazy, so anything they did learn was rapidly forgotten or at least unused. During those 6 weeks or so of RoS dominance Fissure did definitely improve and Surmia barely even put effort in, they would log into WvW once Fissure got their borderlands almost 100%, zerg it, then leave.

However that improvement was not enough to claim any sort of equality or “You have quantity we have quality” statement.

For the record, I have seen both Surmian players and Fissure players claim this “Every one of us is worth 5 of you” silliness. The one big difference is that Fissure have never had their period on top, so the only players left are the ones who do not give up… the same can not be said for Surmia.

Was some good fun at WSR north east tower tonight. 3 way fighting again, bags filled up and had to pop a merchant in middle of it to quickly sell.. I imagine it looked quite funny from the other side.

Honestly, it is easier to see the opponents numbers than your own as you remember far more accurately that you went to X zone and met Y players.. whilst you don’t realise what your team has on the other side of the map.

As a small guild ourselves I generally run into RoF in very large numbers (from my perspective) whilst not seeing many GH players at all. However I am not going to suggest they don’t exist.

You are trying to suggest we have a numbers advantage due to not attacking whiteside? That would more support the theory that we are equal on numbers because your perceived low player count is actually just the result of splitting between multiple zones. For instance to say we outnumber you in your borderlands, yet you are pushing WSR borderlands at the same time, that means you have players elsewhere and we don’t.

Either way.. we haven’t chosen not to attack WSR, but we aren’t devoting as much time to their BL as we have to yours certainly… mostly due to earlier provocation of golem assaults on our borderlands :P

We tried going back a few minutes later

.. but WSR breakout event arrived

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

We held you guys to a couple of spots before finally evicting you from the map but that was some good work at Spiritholme. We finally decided to just ignore you there because it wasn’t worth the work to kick you out.

I think that was us. We didn’t have many online and couldn’t really launch an attack on a tower or keep, we remembered in tier 9 that digging into the north camp usually led to an ever increasing numbers push from the defenders and thought we’d tie some up It’s amazing how much people get determined to dislodge from that camp once they’ve been killed a few times.

We left eventually to go help hills, and camp flipped about 30s later lol. Knew there had to be SOMEONE watching it

Interesting, [SOGR] on both RoF and WSR… Conspiracy!!!1111one!

Distaste.4801:

Neandramathal.9536:

Another thought as to why I would prefer it to not be based off kills, is that WvW scoring and winning is about objective’s. Wiping the enemy is simply a means to an end, something you must do to ensure your safety. But taking objectives still contributes to the victory.

If you have 2 groups, and one keeps the enemy force occupied whilst another sneaks a tower in another location then both have contributed towards your team, and both got rewarded (Obj event, and loot/kill xp). If ‘realm’ ranks or whatever you wish to call them come from kills and only kills, then what does the group doing the equally (or some could argue more) important job get?

Then what does the group holding off the enemy get? They did the more important job of keeping the enemies away. Taking an undefended keep is absolute cake.

Scenario 2: A group takes a keep and leaves it undefended because it is far more lucrative to retake it once the enemy caps it. Thus starts an era of objective swapping which has been seen and proven in both WAR and SWTOR.

Basing it on kills at the very least eliminates objective trading and earning ranks by purely doing PvD. It isn’t a perfect system but it is by far the lesser of two evils. I really don’t want to log in to hear “They just finished capping our borderland and are moving to the next one, time to recap!”

Not suggesting that objective’s be the only source of reward, just that it needs to be more than JUST kills. Kills promote personal glory, score promotes team glory.

I’d say tie it to server score so everything you do towards victory is worth it personally as well, and hope that it would encourage people to organise more. But sadly we all know it would promote server hopping.

Another thought as to why I would prefer it to not be based off kills, is that WvW scoring and winning is about objective’s. Wiping the enemy is simply a means to an end, something you must do to ensure your safety. But taking objectives still contributes to the victory.

If you have 2 groups, and one keeps the enemy force occupied whilst another sneaks a tower in another location then both have contributed towards your team, and both got rewarded (Obj event, and loot/kill xp). If ‘realm’ ranks or whatever you wish to call them come from kills and only kills, then what does the group doing the equally (or some could argue more) important job get?

Jscull.2514:

Neandra-

You are a commander. You dont run small man. Im willing to bet you never played DAOC and if you did, you didnt run 8mans. If you remove aoe cap, you give small mans the ability to destroy 30 man zergs. You lead those 20+ groups around.

I am a commander, and I haven’t played Daoc… but I do run small man. My guild has 14 members (our highest number so far) and usually around 5-8 online. I rarely use my badge because we simply don’t enjoy zerging.

Small groups are pretty much all we do… I use my badge when I must, you can ask people on my server ^^.

Jscull.2514:

Make prestige KILL BASED not objective based. RP’s were based on kills, ANYONE can get high Realm Rank based on keep doors.

How is it any better? This is another reason I am very unsure/unhappy with ranks.

Look at SWTOR for example… for your gear you had to do daily quests, originally the quests were for taking objectives and nothing else. People would stand and let each other take them, waiting for their turn to take it back. Then whined there was no PvP… even though the option was right infront of them but they didn’t take it because it didn’t give the reward…

So, they changed it to require kills instead. What happened next? Big groups of 30 players from each side would meet up and trade kills. So now they have to PvP, but they still choose not to actually do it.

It also brings another thing I hate about it, the whole “We just want the reward we don’t actually care about the fight” thing. If you add in ranks and rewards like this people will grind for them, then quit or whine they have nothing left to do. Sure there are people calling it make or break time for the game but those are the same people who quit 2-3 months into EVERY game, the ones who play purely for reward and not for the fun itself. They will always continue to do so, but putting in these reward levels forces others to do it too.

Now, I may be very wrong and it may all turn out very well balanced and very well thought out, the players may prove to be sensible. Personally at this stage I just see kill based rewards instead of objective based rewards creating kill trades/“duels” instead of keep trades. It also tends to push people towards certain classes/builds more as they can DPS like mad instead of support etc.

I loved the idea of the server rank instead of personal rank as it promotes teamplay but still allows people to cling onto their ego’s if they really have to.

Renown ranks/abilities.. so pushing the gap between casual players or low rank alts/high level chars further apart.

I despised the renown ranks in WaR, or valor gear in SWTOR, or prestige in Rift… etc etc.

Sure hope these abilities are purely WvW related, i.e siege type abilities and not something that actually makes a difference in the combat itself.

I watched the other day as our forces came in, downed 3 trebs on overlook.. and within 30s of them leaving 15-20 WSR appeared on the wall and built another 3, then left. It was just one of those moments where you think “Sigh…”. Killed 18 trebs on that wall in one evening >.<

It’s a double edged sword, to some it draws them out from your BL.. to others it’s like kicking a hornets nest

Recommendation for WSR: Stop trebbing SM :P It forces us to attack you even we have no interest in it!

I spend majority of my time in WvW, and not only do I profit overall (even spending money on upgrades, yes, siege is bought with badges on the other hand) but I profit JUST during WvW.

Single biggest thing to do: Don’t hang around in a zerg, kills give finite amount of loot so the more people to share it between, less chance you’re going to get some.

Olterin Fire.5960:

as well as the trebuchet cow munitions, would like to have a word with you.

You do know that that is real, right?

Firing diseased/rotting corpses was a real thing… it not only spread illness but also seriously demoralised enemies. Dead enemy soldiers were also occasionally fired in sieges. The Mongol’s used black plague as chemical warfare in this manner to conquer a vast amount of land.

Castles were cities in real life, not just fortifications… as such sieges could last weeks, months or even years as it was vastly involving cutting your enemy from their crops and just waiting them out.

I’d rather fight a thief than a D/D ele any day, most thieves are full glass and terrible so it’s a free kill.

They found out we have people at ANet’s server hosting company…

Games up lads.

Warriors survival (or lack of) in zergs also contributes to the abundance of zerker warriors. Once Endure Pain runs out you’re basically going to last a few seconds extra at most (depending on weapons/traits) so may as well go glass.. reducing your life expectancy by 20% isnt much when that expectancy is only 4 seconds to begin with :P

I agree protection is too OP, protection/retaliation are what make Guardians a freakin pain.

I find if I get hit by entangling roots on a slight slope the character is permanently falling half an inch and cannot cast/move, so there is no movement ability option to get out.. because you can’t cast while falling ^^.

Only way out is to die :/

Some cracking fights with ICON outside Dawn’s last night in RoF borders

Look at guards in general ^^

Veteran Archers = Sylvari
Veteran Scouts = Human
Veteran Guards = Charr
Veteran Zealots = Charr
Veteran Protectors = Asura
Veteran Wizards = Asura
Supervisors = Sylvari
Tower Lords = Humans
Keep Lords = Charr
Stonemist Lord = Norn

The ONLY one that’s a norn is the SM lord, 1 mob in the entirity of WvW :P

We’d just finished stealing garrison from that – rather thief heavy – party with the golem and went to meet up with our missing member, you just happened to get in the way

We’d been having a frustrating night, seemed to be no enemies for ages then suddenly 40 people in 1 go, cliffside was the first one we’d really enjoyed all evening. RoF coming from Garrison and WSR from the north, us at cliffside in the middle, so it was a refreshing change hehe.

Cracking lil 3 way fight outside WSR Cliffside just now