Guild Wars 2

30/x/0/20+/10+ is currently the closest thing to a “standard” roaming engineer build that exists. The utilities are usually bombs, grenades, and your choice of a third—most often elixir gun or elixir R. If you take elixir R, you’ll need 15 in tools; if not, there’s no reason to go that deep. You can put 5 in firearms for some extra damage or put all ten of the remaining points into alchemy for some extra survivability.

Yes, p/s and condi/precision/toughness are usually the go-to choices.

Things will get better on Tuesday. Until then, I’d recommend only queueing during primetime. I’ve found queues to be between 30 seconds and 5 minutes most nights.

Matchmaking has been confirmed to have a serious flaw, essentially what you describe. The devs hope to implement a fixed matchmaker in the next patch (Nov 12th).

Also, unranked players (people who haven’t tried solo queue before) enter the system a bit high currently. The devs have also discussed that issue, but there’s nothing confirmed.

Relentless.7023:

That’s the thing though. AI’s get blown up by the same thing you’re suggesting to be nerfed, so it would make them even stronger.

Yup. I think AoE spam is unfortunate but at least it is almost enough to keep the AI spam in check.

Rieselle.5079:

snip

Oh certainly. GW2 sought to overturn some RPG conventions. And there are reasons that there are no MMORPG esports, period. What they’re trying to do is completely new.

I just mean that it’s strange to think that it should have no rpg elements at all and would just be a pure action/fighting game. I mean skyhammer is kind of like super smash bros but other than that…

Minus condi duration runes/food is effective vs. condi mesmers, since a lot of their conditions are very quickly-applied, short conditions. For example, if you take a half second off a two-second burn, it becomes a one-second burn in effect.

Volrath.1473:

ofc you are! you dont play thief, actually you play engi which is getting buffed so… how can you not be exited?!

Wait wait what did I miss? Last time I read the patch notes it looked like engies were receiving significant nerfs.

On topic: I’m a little excited for Dec. 10th because I think the meta’s going to get shaken to the core, which will force some serious theorycrafting to stay ahead. (It’s possible that this is actually too many changes for one patch, and the meta that emerges will be awful, but…I’m hoping that doesn’t happen.) I’m honestly more excited for Nov. 12th, though.

Rieselle.5079:

In a better game than gw2, we wouldn’t even have statistical differences. The abilities and skills you set on your character completely changes the gameplay and mechanics instead.

I’m always a bit surprised when I see suggestions like this. It pretty much perfectly describes an action/fighting game, not really anything like an RPG. My initial reaction is that people bought a game in a genre they don’t like and then were surprised to find they didn’t like it, but I’m willing to hear you out. Why do you feel GW2 should have been an action/fighting game rather than an RPG?

Junkpile.7439:

How can you do big burst if you use soldiers amulet? Never seen this happen.

Very easy with unsuspecting foe and merciless hammer. Let’s say you’re using SoR, so you have fury. Suddenly you’re up around 80% crit chance depending on runes. So 80% crit chance, ~35% bonus crit damage depending on build, +25% flat damage increase…you get the idea.

Rarnark.5623:

An important thing to note is that both S/D and Hambow warriors are being nerfed to the ground next patch. It is likely the meta will stagnate into condition bunkers with the occasional hard burst roamer (Which in my opinion is much worse that what we have now).

I suppose that’s possible, but very unlikely. I wouldn’t expect condi bunkers to suddenly appear out of nowhere, especially since condition builds are getting hefty nerfs and several cleansing skills are getting buffed. Settler’s ranger will probably continue to be the only condi bunker.

My point is that no one has ever really used a condi bunker yet, so it’s a stretch to assume they’ll suddenly become dominant or to try to nerf them before anyone uses them.

This is a case of “it’s mandatory because it’s so good.” In other words, it’s not that not fast hands is essential to the warrior, it’s just that there’s no reason not to take it because you can’t get anything better. Cleansing ire is even more so like that.

A better approach would be the vigor/swiftness nerfs incoming for engineers. Raise the traited cooldown to 6 seconds so that those fifteen points could be reasonably spent elsewhere, and give minor buffs to a couple of grandmaster traits in other trees so that there’s a reasonable choice between two options. The same approach should be taken to cleansing ire imo. I don’t think anyone would seriously suggest any serious warrior build without these two traits, except possibly bunker warrior could do without fast hands.

Ele arcana was/is mandatory. Fast hands/cleansing ire just appear mandatory because nothing is better.

Kurieg.4158:

NevirSayDie.6235:

-condition duration is applied after +condition duration and thus is much, much more powerful.

That’s not true, though. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-duration-vs-Condition-duration/first

Or did they change it?

Thanks, I stand corrected.

Brando.1374:

NevirSayDie.6235:

That quote was referring to the hammer/longbow warrior build in PvP.

so why is it in the WvW forums?

That’s a great question! I’m not the OP so I don’t can’t really give an answer to that. Here’s the original quote:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Warrior-Ele-2-0/3122482

Condition builds in general are receiving hefty nerfs and condition removal is receiving hefty buffs. The warhorn/pure of voice thing was a bugfix. -condition duration is applied after +condition duration and thus is much, much more powerful.

Just trying to clear a few things up.

That quote was referring to the hammer/longbow warrior build in PvP.

Kavia.8249:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I queued extremely carefully for a while and got pretty high on the leaderboards, but it was too much work. I had to not play when top teams were syncing; I had to not play in off-hours; I had to not play on Friday nights (WvW resets); I had to not play during outside events (like the 2v2 tournament). I had to play cheap on skyhammer, and I had to run whatever would counter warriors (or necros, a couple months ago).

After a while, I just figured I had achieved the highest rank I should expect out of the current system, so I stopped caring. I did drop quite a bit, but that’s all right. With the new matchmaking coming, solo queue should be way better. I’ll probably try to get my rank up again after the new system comes in, especially if ranks are reset. That would be pretty cool.

I just want to emphasize this quote that the current ladder mechanics encourage NOT PLAYING in many scenarios over playing, which is pretty stupid.

Right. I’m expecting things to be 10x better after the next patch, but I’m basically putting that information out as a way of saying a reset would be nice, and giving rewards for the top X solo queue places at this point would not be wise.

I think mesmers will be the next FOTM profession. Condition builds were considered powerful until people figured out warriors were good. On Dec. 10th, condition builds and warriors are both getting significant nerfs. I think people will suddenly realize mesmers are good, just like they suddenly realized warriors were good a couple months ago.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you say, I’d just say that Anet shouldn’t really be considering any more balance changes until they see how next month’s patch plays out. There are so many changes coming in that patch (maybe too many for one patch). The meta will almost certainly be shaken to the core, and no one really knows what balance will look like once the dust settles in late December.

garethh.3518:

Yeah, that should be clarified.
Thanks for the reminder
In those cases, since condi dmg would be globally cut back, the physical dmg from crit or power would try to fill the gap. To keep up with the same sort of dps they are doing now it might be a good idea to push them towards rampager.

Anyways, all in all, this wouldn’t end up killing those builds or even largely switch up how viable they are, but it’d largely change how you can fight them.
(that’s why I thought this was a great idea worthy of a thread)

Since condi’s won’t be the main and only source of dmg, toughness would give notable mitigation, cleansing wouldn’t be downright necessary to have stacked to have a chance, exc. exc.

No I meant you wouldn’t change any meta builds by making carrion or rabid more important compared to settler’s, because no one uses settler’s. It seemed like you were hoping to see condition builds rely more on the second offensive stat (power or precision from carrion or rabid), which is fine. But it wouldn’t change any meta builds, because they already use those amulets.

Yasha.5963:

That seems to require quite a lot of dedication and planning.

Exactly. I enjoyed moving up the leaderboard, but I had to restrict myself incredibly harshly. I could usually only play 1-3 matches per day, because I had to avoid all the situations I mentioned (sync queuers, low population, etc) if I wanted to keep moving up. Now I’ve fallen quite a ways because I decided I’d play even at the “wrong” times.

I’m hoping that things will get a lot better after the 12th. A reset would be awesome, but we’ll see what happens.

I think mesmers will be the next FOTM beginning late December or maybe January. I’m being completely serious.

They should make the thief 25% stealth trait and the mesmer 25% health trait work the same way. Honestly it would be fine if both ignored revealed, but making one ignore revealed while the other doesn’t is kind of strange.

garethh.3518:

It’d make a situation where condi specs couldn’t throw everything into bunkering after they get their 700-1k condi dmg, they would need to take a more offensive amulet to really get all the dmg they can get.

There currently aren’t any meta builds that use settler’s amulet except maybe spirit ranger. Necro will always use either rabid or carrion, and condition engineers will almost always use rabid. Necro generally has zero points in defensive traitlines and engineers are usually about half and half.

Plyte.8130:

Its been nearly a year since they stated this, but we can look at it as a baseline. Engineers aren’t comfortable mid ranges.

Actually I think the mid-range thing worked out pretty well, somehow. It’s a combination of being able to use any autoattack at any time (i.e. no getting locked in your melee set for 9 seconds while getting kited) and the fact that we’re just as effective at a tiny bit further than melee range.

The result is that we usually have to try to close on ranged builds, but kite melee builds. That’s what I would call a medium range profession. It’s a really, really cool dynamic. Grenades, bombs, rifle, flamethrower, pistol/pistol, pistol/shield, and static discharge all have really interesting interactions with ranged and melee opponents.

ronpierce.2760:

In my Petting Zoo comp I ran Soldiers MM, which is technically a Semi bunk build. It just has decent damage potential, especially with aoe buffs going out.

Right, I just meant there weren’t really any bunker guardians in the tourney, for good reason. I’d say soldier’s MM is a tanky dps build.

ronpierce.2760:

SpehssMehreen.5897:

go play some cod dude, the game is not balanced against simple deathmatch

Believe it or not 2v2 is more balanced/fun than conquest*

Maybe, but let’s be honest, there were a lot of spirit rangers in that tourney. They’re getting nerfed on the 10th, but even if they get nerfed to the ground, the next best build that can fill that role (massive downed state control + team damage) will be the best 2v2 build. One nice thing about conquest is the build variety. 2v2 is fun and challenging but I don’t think a wide variety of builds are possible in the current combat system.

Oh, and spirit rangers can rez themselves pretty easily, currently allowing their teammate to get away with less downed state control. If self-spirit rez is nerfed, for 2v2 a build without downed state control would be a liability.

a t s e.9614:

Yea I always wanted death match . Capping points it’s dumb , It player vs player and not Bunker vs Random . If it was death match , the bunkers would dissapear and it would be better that way.

Well bunkers disappear in 2v2s. In a 3v3 one bunker would be essential. In a 5v5 you’d probably want two bunkers.

In WvW, almost everyone runs a semi-tanky dps build because that’s how the minmaxing falls out the best.

Also, there is exactly one roaming build that’s better with a food besides lemongrass. That’s condi necro, and they’re better off with pizza.

garethh.3518:

NevirSayDie.6235:

My opinion is that build diversity should stay. The extremes were a bit much at launch, but have been toned down a lot since then.

Ideally this wouldn’t lessen diversity at all.
Burst builds would still exist, they just wouldn’t be every spec that wants to deal viable physical dmg.
Condi builds would still exist, they just wouldn’t be, next to always, extremely bunkery.
Bunker builds would still exist, they just wouldn’t need meta specs or 3+ people on them to die in a reasonable time.

The idea is only to open up the meta and stop massive spasms.

I meant build diversity as in the extent to which builds are different. Of course there will always be different builds. Basically the suggestion is that damage and bunker builds get pushed toward each other, so that burst is less bursty and tank is less tanky. I agree that can sometimes be necessary (as at launch) but I think that we’re past that and that the diversity can stay.

I start every match by saying “hi all,” no exceptions. If I get a response, I go from there to work out the team’s opening. If I get no response, I say “I can take close point at start” since I figure the rest of the team will do something useful, either rush mid or split mid/far at start.

If all four go mid, I’ll rotate to far right after I cap close. If they split, I’ll obviously reinforce mid as soon as I cap close. During the match, the only communication I’ll attempt is if my teammates are trickling in to mid (“regroup at close”) or if they’re fighting on the edge of the map while losing control of all the points (“fight on points please”).

If not even that level of communication is successful, I’ll go to far point and attempt to pull as many opponents there as possible and try to survive 1vX for the remainder of the game. It gets discouraging when I succeed at that and the rest of my team still wipes, though.

It’s a legitimate suggestion. Some people do feel that burst is too high, condi damage is too high, and survivability is too high all at the same time. The idea is that things would be more fair if builds were normalized so that no build would be that different from another (i.e. you could be a dps, but you wouldn’t deal that much more damage than a bunker, and the bunker wouldn’t be that much more tanky than you).

My opinion is that build diversity should stay. The extremes were a bit much at launch, but have been toned down a lot since then.

garethh.3518:

IMO posts chastising the devs seems to be brought up pretty regularly because Anet hasn’t tossed the idea that GW2 can be an esport… GW2 being a game that those posters clearly see is in no shape to even toss the word around as an ‘on the horizon’…

Right, that’s what I mean. It’s not like people are offering feedback, it’s just insult threads, nothing more.

As the third-party articles you link show, the devs have always had a dream or goal of GW2 PvP eventually being played at a top competitive level. That’s a far cry from “false advertising” or “broken promises” like the accusations we see incessantly on the forums.

Especially when the same third-party articles interviewing the devs about their plans for PvP included paragraphs like “we’ve never seen an MMO house a successful esport before, it will be interesting to see what happens.”

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think unrated queue as a replacement for hotjoin is possible. The devs would want it to be extremely casual, though, since hotjoin is absolutely the most casual form of pvp possible (and for some reason, it’s been fairly popular since launch).

The hop in, hop out mentality of Hot Join is what makes it so casual, but if you just replaced people with a random from queue when they left during a match then it would work fine. You could even allow spectators in unrated queue and give them a time window to jump in when someone leaves. It would keep more matches even numbered and more fun than HJ does too.

Right. Here’s hoping the devs are willing to try it.

Solo queue fix is hopefully November 12th (unofficial announcement). I agree that’s too long, but hey, it’s not worth complaining about when the fix is coming in a few days.

Archaon.6245:

First of all stop sinc exploiters and so on and reset everything, then we’ll talk about it

I do agree with this. Adding special rewards for the top X solo queue leaderboard places would be a horrible idea at this point.

If there are leaderboard rewards, they should be announced far ahead of time (i.e. the reward will be for X positions on date Y). And of course it should be after matchmaking is confirmed to work correctly. A reset wouldn’t hurt either.

I queued extremely carefully for a while and got pretty high on the leaderboards, but it was too much work. I had to not play when top teams were syncing; I had to not play in off-hours; I had to not play on Friday nights (WvW resets); I had to not play during outside events (like the 2v2 tournament). I had to play cheap on skyhammer, and I had to run whatever would counter warriors (or necros, a couple months ago).

After a while, I just figured I had achieved the highest rank I should expect out of the current system, so I stopped caring. I did drop quite a bit, but that’s all right. With the new matchmaking coming, solo queue should be way better. I’ll probably try to get my rank up again after the new system comes in, especially if ranks are reset. That would be pretty cool.

garethh.3518:

snip

Thanks for remaining polite as always. Those are basically the quotes I was talking about—some devs saying things like they want to “appeal to professional gamers” and that there’s a “big iceberg” of things they “want to do.” One dev even said that esports was a “primary goal.”

I just don’t see the connection between that and weekly esports threads that supposedly shame the devs into trying harder.

The PC gamer article you linked is especially interesting. Its conclusion is:

“Structured PvP could end up being one of Guild Wars 2’s surprise hits: we’re already excited about world vs. world and dynamic events, but we’ve not seen an MMO house a successful e-sport before. It’s another item on the growing list of ambitious things that ArenaNet want to do to the MMO, and it’ll be fascinating to watch how it pans out.”

I think unrated queue as a replacement for hotjoin is possible. The devs would want it to be extremely casual, though, since hotjoin is absolutely the most casual form of pvp possible (and for some reason, it’s been fairly popular since launch).

garethh.3518:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

Besides how Anet was saying the were making a game for esports.
I mean, besides that, yeah they have done nothing to show they have any interest in it.

See, that’s what I mean. That’s not actually true. I know the forums keep saying that the devs were promising esports since before launch; thing is, that’s incorrect. There were no blog posts saying they were making an esport, no promotional videos saying they were making an esport. There were no trailers with the word “esport” in them.

A couple devs made statements to the effect that they really liked GW2 PvP and thought it would do really well, they hoped it would even be played as an esport. That’s it.

I wouldn’t rely on elixirs unless you have other traits for them in your build. Try healing turret.

Bonus damage traits don’t affect condition damage (i.e. the grandmaster firearms trait). You may want to adjust those.

You might want to try pistol/pistol with this setup. You don’t lose much survivability, you don’t need the blast finisher, and blowtorch will add a lot of damage to your two low-dps, high-utility kits. You’re also perfectly set up to take reduced pistol cooldowns.

Keep tweaking it—the beauty of engineer builds is that there’s always something you can change. I can see this build being a pretty solid duelist or even teamfight dps with the right tweaks.

I’m actually okay with grenade and bomb kits being our go-to dps generators. It makes logical sense and it allows our other kits to fulfill utility roles. I don’t think we’d get more real variety with five high-damage, low-utility kits.

Nerfing nades and bombs would send most PvP/WvW engineers to SD at this point, as utility kits are…well…used for utility. Also, it would make condition builds even more dependent on IP, since across all of our traits and skills, IP is our only decent source of attrition damage.

Well I don’t think it’s a problem with the strategy so much as people think they’re good when they’re not.

For example, the few matches I’ve played with Caed on the opposite team, he’s done a lot of far point assault. Only he’s actually good enough to carry like that. Usually I see people failing to even get a neut and losing the 1v1 or dying as soon as a second opponent comes to reinforce.

If you have the right build and an accurate view of your own skill, it can be effective. Most people don’t, though.

RoRo.8270:

As far as I know guild wars 2 was marketed as esports before the game was even released. They hyped everyone up especially the gw1 pvp crowd. Now that the Devs realized it is easier to say we are esports they have quieted down

And where did you hear that? …ah, right, on the forums. It was not “marketed” as an esport, although PvP was certainly part of the advertising. Especially the fact that PvP had absolutely no gear or level advantages. The reality is that before launch, a few of the devs made statements like “we’re really excited about PvP and we hope it can become an e-sport someday.” And somehow we got from that to where we are now.

Jamais vu.5284:

Funny that you say that, when all of those features (barring SoloQ) are incredibly e-sports centric. Which average player cares about leaderboards?
Or spectates (especially if there was no e-sports scene to begin with)?
They all were developed at the expense of features that would actually lure in players, like new/improved game modes or (PVE-exchangeable) rewards.

I partially agree with you on spectator mode. Right after launch, top-tier players were calling loudly for spectator mode because they wanted to be seen. I wasn’t sure that was exactly what PvP needed, but Anet obliged. It was also heralded as a good way for new players to learn, which I can also understand.

Leaderboards don’t really have much to do with “esports,” since all of the major tournaments have basically been invitational or open sign-ups so far. It’s just a ranking tied to matchmaking. I mean, PvE has a leaderboard too.

Matchmaking certainly has nothing to do with esports, since major tournaments don’t need it. The game launched without it, and it has since been added. It will get a major upgrade in a few days.

So spectator mode was maybe partially influenced by players obsessed with esports, but none of the other decisions have been. Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

JonPeters.5630:

by the way just bumped overcharge shot to 400,600. I might just bumped baseline again as 400 range is kindof worthless.

Jon, I play a rifle engineer and I think the change to blunderbuss is great, as it currently never really gets its full damage out.

I would caution you to be careful about buffing overcharged shot. It’s already very strong and people blow random dodges like crazy when close to a rifle engineer to try to avoid it. If it’s possible, I’d recommend allowing it to fire and remove immobilized even if your target is strafing around you, so a buff to utility instead of just a straight-up buff.

Fortus.6175:

NevirSayDie.6235:

What do you think the skill should be like, and why would it be better if it were that way?

Fortus.6175:

Currently I believe that if the class is supposed to have that much damage, then I suggest we move that damage to other skills that require at least some kind of risk

Fair enough, so you’d like to nerf backstab but increase the damage on another mainhand dagger skill (either auto or heartseeker).

Either that or you’re suggesting to nerf mainhand dagger outright with no compensation and make sword mainhand stronger, which is the other thief melee weapon. I’m leaving out the ranged weapons, since you want to reward risk.

So we could move some of backstab’s damage to either:
1. dagger auto
2. heartseeker
3. sword

Which of those three seems best to you?

Adris.1859:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Exactly. The devs have been simply focusing on improving the game for a full year now. It’s the forums that insist on staying in April 2012.

kitten right man. Look at all the awesome features they made !

The game launched too early for PvP, so a lot of basic features had to be added after launch. Custom arenas, matchmaking, leaderboards, solo/team queues, spectating—none of those existed at launch.

The devs have spent the last year adding stuff like that. Most of those features still have a lot of room to improve, but my point was that the devs aren’t ignoring those features while pushing for “esports.” They’ve been working on the actual issues in the game for the last year, while we’ve been repeating the word “esports” like a chant in a picket line, as if saying it will make the devs feel bad, which will somehow make the game better.

Enokitake.1742:

Boom. Thank you. I wish they/we’d all do away with this arbitrary goal and focus on what they should be doing: expanding PVP modes and character development options, like the multitude that existed in GW1. This entire “E-sport” thing has been a massive waste of time, a massive disappointment, and resulted in a shoddy broken PVP community with a low skill floor, little competition, and constant conquest mode rotation. -_-

Exactly. The devs have been simply focusing on improving the game for a full year now. It’s the forums that insist on staying in April 2012.

What the other people in this thread are trying to say is that backstab has good counterplay, just not in the form of an obvious animation. We don’t understand what you want this skill to be. Would it be better if it kicked the thief out of stealth and then played a huge animation before landing? That doesn’t seem any better to me. Should it be easier to land but deal less damage? That just takes away the unique skill factor of the build. Should it be nerfed to the ground and give dagger thieves massive buffs to compensate? That seems unnecessary.

What do you think the skill should be like, and why would it be better if it were that way?

Why do people keep making threads about “esports”? The devs are certainly not obsessed with esports, nor should they be. They’re just focused on making the game better, as they say. That’s all they can do anyway. It seems the forums just want a special word to all get angry about together.

Let’s make threads about specific issues in the game that could be better. Using the word “esports” over and over again doesn’t seem useful to me.

Pistol is absolutely subpar if you have to use its autoattack much. The standard answer is to use bombs and/or grenades so you don’t have to fall back on pistol 1 very often. EG is also a great option. Incendiary powder takes engineer auto attacks from zero to hero, which is why it’s getting moved to master tier next month.

The link doesn’t show many trait choices—I could make some suggestions but I don’t know what you’re currently using.

Fortus.6175:

I will count and dodge for the definitely-coming judge focus combo

Can’t you do the same thing when a dagger thief goes into stealth near you?

There aren’t very many thief or bunker players in this thread—people are defending it because they don’t feel it’s a problem. Backstab is one of the only big damage skills in the game that’s really tough to land, which is something the game needs more of honestly. Others are dragon’s tooth and grenade barrage. People don’t complain about dragon’s tooth because when they get hit by it, they know it’s because they messed up and got baited/cc’d into the burst.

Regarding eles: we all know you want eles to be stronger. But calling for nerfs to stuff that everyone feels is fine is a strange way to go about that.

I’m confused. You make it very clear in your original post that you know most people disagree with you. Yet you seem very surprised when everyone disagrees with you. I must ask the question: what were you hoping to accomplish?

Also, judge’s intervention is way harder to avoid than backstab. They are both awesome skills that are powerful but well-balanced. Neither one has an animation telling you to dodge it, and that’s okay.

data.4093:

And these are just things off the top of my head which anyone can talk about. There are hundreds of skills, many with such short casts that the only ways to play are “tank it”, “evade it”, “get them before they get me”. No cast bars, no distinct movements just tank tank, evade evade, spam spam.

I agree with you that in general, big damage cooldowns should have tells. I don’t think it reduces the game to random dodging or evade spam, though. I used to get upset when people dodged my overcharged shot, a skill that should be impossible to dodge. I finally figured out how badly I was getting outplayed—my opponents were reading me like a book. They didn’t need an animation, because they knew exactly what combos I was trying to pull on them.

Now I find I have a pretty good success rate dodging overcharged shot vs. other engineers, and I land it much more consistently. So I agree in general, but I think there’s a lot more going on than that.

From an esports perspective, that type of gameplay does make it tough for a casual observer to see what’s going on. As shoutcasters get better and better, I expect they’ll be able to provide more and more insight into mind games like this.