Guild Wars 2

Yeah we get to the problem of comparing highlight videos to regular every day play. People arent going to put up all of their failures online, and these are situations they think look amazing. Most outnumbered wvw videos are against uplevels or just plain bad players.

Other points still stand, but really, highlight videos REALLY cant be compared to regular or expected play.

Edit: Case in point, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgkx2w4LrY This video inspired me to make my warrior, but I understand that it isnt representative of expected play with a squish build. Definitely not anymore, at least.

The thread points to the point in the video he is in PvP. That build is full dps.

The glint heal DOES need some work, needs a visual tell. I also think most of what we see at this point is just inexperience. The meta is going to be shifted by revenant -at least-. People run builds to deal with the current meta because hey its been one ongoing uninterupted flow of fights for 3 years. Suddenly you have an entirely new class and sub classes thrown in for a few weekends at a time and it causes problems and goofs with the meta. Its to be expected.

gannondorf.7628:

Misguided.5139:

A decent condition necromancer should melt Glint/Shiro Revenant. They have very little ability to deal with conditions.

I admit i don’t understand this. I don’t feel particulary squishy to condition with a revenant. No more than a mesmer or engineer. Particulary if you use lyssa runes. The only problem is burning coz it’s pretty op but that’s for all classes.
With glint heal, evades, shield you already have toon of sustain and ways to evade conditions. It’s really a false weakness for me. And even more if Roy ad the great dwarf rite trait in retribution traitline.

You can only have 3 trait lines friend. What are you giving up for retribution? Invocation gives higher dps, herald gives shield. period. and devistation is a no brainer.

Also yeah, no condi clear at all with a full offensive build. Not a single one.

All I see at 5:30 is a rev picking up the scraps of someone elses fight that they were running from. One of them was even smart enough to not attack with glints heal active. Had the other person been smart enough he would have lost.

Seriously, this is a matter of not having experience fighting them. Glint is going to be one of the most common legends and people are going to learn to watch for the heal. You dont give them HP back and you’re good to go.

And the fight immediately after, absolutely no reason for him to have won* that. The score of that game might MIGHT reflect that red team was a little less than good.

Suppose I could have some actual feedback about my experience in BWE3 with ventari. Was running a healing build with another ventari revenant. Very cool play with keeping each other alive and trading off reviving people and timing tablet heals to get them back in fighting shape. The goal to keep revenant from being able to just sustain itself on its own with ventari was successful. It takes a lot of time/energy to heal yourself back to full with the tablet, but with two and some coordination, can be a single heal to get back into action. That felt good! Ventari/Salvation does a great job at incentivizing you building into healing power for results, and I’m going to hold off on further comparison to druid until we see what balance changes come from BWE3. Ventari is still rather clunky, and the cast time before the tablet movement feels odd. I dont mind the movement speed, and I agree with the earlier suggestion to make the heal be based on a small burst at its final placement instead of passing through people.

I dont get why you hang around other forums complaining about druid. If you dont like it go complain where the dude that handles your class will hear it.

Ranger can fill the other roles just fine! You dont need projectile block/reflect in the raid, as a matter of fact, having ranged dps is a BIG plus because of the lightning AOE you have to stand in! Not having to pause damage because melee has to run off to keep the group from wiping is a huge plus! Especially if pets keep counting as bodies in them.

This was constructive until the booty blasted ranger started telling us that its ok for ventari to be subpar because lol dps revenant.

oh my GOD that isnt even the point of this ENTIRE conversation, CLASSES CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE ROLE, A RANGER IS NOT JUST A HEALER, A REVENANT IS NOT JUST A DPSER, A WARRIOR IS NOT JUST 100 BLADES BOT

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of druids sustain an healing applies very well to itself. Ventari has a lot of trouble keeping itself alive. Its the difference between pumping out 5.5k heals on allies and 3k heals on yourself. Druid in its current state could have really ridiculous self sustain, which is the reason they pumped so much of ventari’s healing through an outgoing only filter to keep them from being sustainy. Would like to see druid have access to increasing its outgoing healing rather than just flat buffs to healing.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3 second every 8 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 18,500 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Are you taking into consideration the 20% healing buff druid stacks from auto attacking near allies?
Plus the added waterfield combo

Edit: Sorry – with the glyph its an added 45% healing buff

Yes I am considering these things. Even giving the benefit of the doubt given that a Druid can only self blast water fields in avatar state with clarion bond. I assume at some point lunar impact will give one blast to rejuvenating tides.

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can.

I do however include the twenty percent from natural mender.

I will edit some of the math in a second to clarify a mistake I did make though.

Need to keep in mind how easy avatar is to build up, though. All of the avatar skills are low CD and it itself is extremely easy to build up in any situation you would need a healer in.

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

This absolutely needs to be addressed. Even if druid is toned down at the base level, it will still far outshine anything ventari can hope to achieve in its current state. The idea that druid is “bursty” healing is absolutely laughable, considering they can nearly stay in the celestial form kitten near permanently. All that talk earlier about druid and ventari complimenting eachother? Not even close. My hopes of running a ventari revenant in raid content is probably going to be met with getting booted from squads because I’m not a druid.
Now I do think druid should have to work harder to fill that bar, and I appreciate the balance they’re enacting but really. Roy.
Roy.

You were way too conservative with Ventari.

No, because the way it currently works, it gives you the first mastery point, completing it also gives you access to the mastery system at all.
On a side note, if you go into the story instance of someone in your party, and they leave it before you properly claim the mastery point reward, it bugs out and you cant fix it.

Well gosh I found your problem right here

No really, its even easier this weekend than it has been before.

At this point would it be better to not have an argument between two people on the public forums…?

Kidel.2057:

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

I’ll do whatever role my group needs if I can. I’ve already prepared 4 armor and weapon sets, 1 for each legend (dps, tank, healer, condi dps). I’m also testing cleric Guardian in pvp with some friends (against Svanir) and it’s pretty strong. It only needs a cd reduction on some stuff imo, but can burst heal with long cds and do small sustained heal and boons. The elite signet may need a cast time reduction.

I’ll compare it and revenant with druid to see if they are viable

The WvW group I used to run with rolled guardians that ran clerics/magi’s mixes with dodge healing and stuff. Was actually amazingly good at sustaining the front line and themselves by sheer virtue of having outgoing sustain mixed with decent little spammable heals on dodge and staff #2.
What I feel from my limited time from rev is like that on steroids if you play it right. Less “roll against the wall for heals” at clutch moments and more keeping the tablet in the right place at the right time. Feels about the same. Which was satisfying. Just kind of wish the tablets heal had a bit more range than that dodge trait COUGH

Varezenem.2813:

Coldtart.4785:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

How’s it gunna do that when you’ve swapped to your other legend? You need both healing power and salvation to make Ventari good and then the moment you switch out of Ventari both of them become 100% useless. Compare this to healing power and honor traits for guard or healing power and druid traits for ranger which are always useful because you can always have access to strong area healing.

You still have healing on staff and shield and you do have to switch legends to keep the 20% outgoing healing bonus and perma regen. You do however lose that burst healing while you aren’t channeling ventari.

I dont know how much I like that trait anyway. I know its a significant boost but its bonus lasts for a VERY short time. Just dosent feel very good. I wish it had some other effect other than on legend swap. Maybe weapon swap, now that we have it?

Varezenem.2813:

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

PLEASE. The tablets effective range is so tiny!

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

gannondorf.7628:

None. But revenant wasn’t designed for being good to something but for touch to all= Jack of all trades. Others classes do better that revenant but can"t be versatile like the revenant is.

Lets not mistake jake of all trades for “possible for all, viable for none”

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

As someone who spent most of BWE2 playing healing spec I can agree on almost everything about ventari. Outside of the tablet bugging occasionally with dying/waypointing, the range on the heal being less than the leash on the tablet itself is extremely frustrating, and the cast time on movement of the tablet matched with its already slow movement speed adds frustration that really shouldent exist with using the tablet. I can understand that the reason the burst heal has a delay is to add some spike heal capability by timing it with the movement of the tablet, but it makes it hard to use effectively because the movement is not instant cast. Sure, this is a problem with having to learn the tablet more effectively, but I feel that it only artificially raises the skill ceiling without really adding any extra benefit. The low range of the tablet in general also feels very off.

My ideas of building are WvW focused, and I’m excited to try some new ideas involving touching some underused healing stat sets to try and give a back line healing focused rev the abillity to defend itself from pickers with condi damage and pressure. Anet has said in the past that they want to avoid making rev (or healing specs in general) able to be powerful healers and be very tanky at the same time, and my idea is that a healing focused rev would be at its most effective taking the least damage possible.
The problem with this idea in WvW is that a single rev doing outgoing healing will only be useful to 5 people at a time. This is not a problem in roaming groups or small numbers, but really seems less useful than just having water fields and blasts. A single ele with a water field can heal an entire large group because its combo field effects are available to more than 5 people at a time. I know they dont want to seperate balancing between WvW and other game modes, but Ventari has MASSIVE potential in WvW that has me honestly afraid that the 5 man cap will be the only thing holding it back.

Actually, the 5 man cap on the heal seems to limit its usefulness in everything outside of PvP and small man Wvw and PvE. And even then in PvP a healing focused rev may be wasted potential. Do I think it needs no cap? Absolutely not! 10 might be far too much to ask, even. The most use I can think of getting out of this tablet is to help keep people in front line alive, or keeping the back protected/healed and then helping heal your party in refresh.

This was real rambly and I apologize for not making this easier to read.

Any of the T1 servers. Pls anet?

Amazing fights tonight on Magbl! Hats off to PYRO for humoring us being silly.

Bucket Lips.5017:

Mag meet TC…. TC meet Mag, please feel free to get acquainted. Oh, and if you’re feeling really adventurous and want to add some variety to your life then try visiting each others BL , you just may enjoy doing something different

Lol after what I saw last night? Kettle meet pot!

Pinko.2076:

SnakeMx.3784:

So Mag is mad now that people is back from vacation and the kids are back to school? Shame …

gd you need to set up lines like this not just throw them out there

confusion trolling or something smh

Confusion too stronk?

Because apparently I’ve both had words put into my mouth AND people take what I said the wrong way, I did not say AoN was a bad group. Thats the silliest thing anyone could ever say. They are rediculously well organized as a small group and are among the best small group I’ve ever seen. Once upon a time I was in a small roaming group and we ran into a few of them. No one won the fight because I believe other people were nearby, but one thing I can say is that before people interfered, they used the tonics to get away when they got low. No one is questioning your skill (or should be, honestly.) here, the point of this whole mess was to just say that yes, I’ve seen you guys use those tonics, and I’m VERY much so against that personally. The idea that NOPE never roams or has groups of 5 is just untrue. Thats it.

And take a kitten compliment. That situation you brought up in SE camp was a COMPLIMENT. kitten.

Tricare.2946:

Asudementio.8526:

Tricare.2946:

Winkin.1490:

Asudementio.8526:

Why?

Because your guildmate said NOPE beats AoN with even numbers.

Sorry, they only know how to play when they have 30+

Weren’t you supposed to be banned? We rarely run 30 but it’d be nice to have that many more often- It would be easier to face some of the blob groups we face on a consistent basis.

Nope, only got 2 weeks. I’ve never seen a 5-10 man of NOPE running around, otherwise we would have a sweet 2v10 video

You missed a lot of roaming last week then! Most nights we had 4-5 at least with me after our organized running.

Also we had 13 tonight, is that close enough?

You joke about it, but it has happened.

Being stuck in an animation after dying is best silly, yes or yes?

Really though, the same two players talking about something that seems to have already been resolved by both parties within the first few posts is also silly…. wait…

Edit: Just to make sure this is clear, I agree with you. Abusing tonics to get off fights to avoid having to spend time regrouping is just a silly excuse for abusing a game mechanic that isnt being used as intended.

BUMP because DIS is awesome, and could use the help!

Well be ready, any time now they’re going to tell the whole subforum when to stop talking.

Aberrant.6749:

Jaxs.5830:

Aberrant.6749:

Jaxs.5830:

Aberrant.6749:

Jaxs.5830:

Aberrant.6749:

@ Aon ppl using that reindeer tonic on TCBL tonight to run away… is it really worth the 30 or 60s? Seems like a huge waste to me.

If you bought them at that price maybe not, but ultimately what else do I have to buy?

Just sell them and buy gems or food or “skype” time with a cute lady or something…

When I see some one do it I’m like… nice… I just made them waste gold over their pride. Best victory possible.

Has nothing to do with pride, everything to do with being able to stay in the fight and keep fighting. When you run a small synergy based group, losing someone is a large chunk of your effectiveness. Spend enough time kitting out blobbing baddies, rather not waste more on regrouping.

As i said I do not need gold or gems, I have 4 freezers full of meat, and my wife wouldn’t like me skyping cute ladies. Gold, in a game that is floundering about waiting for the next game to kill it, is not all that valuable.

But in at least 2 cases tonight there wasn’t anyone else alive… and the person WP-ed right after they got ooc… can’t think of any good reason other than pride

That never occurred last night, there was always at least half of us alive.

Nah ONE person left there used it when you guys tried to run away from N.camp through the skritt last night. It’s ok, like I said, I appreciate the gold destruction

They abuse tonics to get out of fights they lose, even against even numbers. Topic is resolved, they admitted to it and proceeded to try and defend themselves for doing such a shameful thing. Subject is over.

Tonights been fun overall. A nice power hour before ending where we pushed ourselves to try and be the best we could, lots of good fights and much fun around the map…

And because this could very likely be my final post on this sub forum… Its been an honor talking with you fighting with you.

Amazing fights tonight on FABL. Fun time all around.

TG, amazing as always.
PYRO, we tried with what numbers we had, but was still great.
FA pug zerg, tons of fun in that 20 minute 3 way.

To the two FA mesmers at water camp TCBL a few hours ago. That 15 minute fight was epic.

Blue.9510:

feltri.5062:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzjeg3_CY2M

Anet should do something about it

I agree. I was the necro there with you. I hadn’t seen blatant cheating in this game until that. Very sad people resort to this stuff.

I left what I had to say in the comment section of the video, because they’re trying their hardest to cover their tracks.

Super complex and complicated stuff, that.

UHD.2634:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

UHD.2634:

Hydrobutter.9172:

UHD.2634:

Hydrobutter.9172:

UHD.2634:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAuRJ5_2Qhw

#BestMagDestroyer!

was that you we killed a bunch last night cause that was p lol

I don’t play during holiday seasons, what are you talking about?

then someone in meow is v bad at this game

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Meow has a roster of 36 members only, and we’re on a break. The most we had was on oceanic time zone at 7-10 people online doing PvP. You’re just being delusional or have confused us with another Meow guild.

Saturday at about 3-4~ AM server time my party ran into about 5ish Meow. Was pretty fun

I was there roaming too, killed me some Maguumas and built some rams into their North camp in their own BL. You’ll most likely see me as the purple haired elementalist or with a dragon helmet.

We had those fights in EBG. Not sure if you were there but I forget how it ended. I think both groups got forced away by a mag zerg

UHD.2634:

Hydrobutter.9172:

UHD.2634:

Hydrobutter.9172:

UHD.2634:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAuRJ5_2Qhw

#BestMagDestroyer!

was that you we killed a bunch last night cause that was p lol

I don’t play during holiday seasons, what are you talking about?

then someone in meow is v bad at this game

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Meow has a roster of 36 members only, and we’re on a break. The most we had was on oceanic time zone at 7-10 people online doing PvP. You’re just being delusional or have confused us with another Meow guild.

Saturday at about 3-4~ AM server time my party ran into about 5ish Meow. Was pretty fun

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Brode.7689:

Oh also, this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4LtFzacy2M

oh YOU! You got your kitten handed to you 1v1 by a mesmer had to have your necro friend come save you last night.

Mesmers can win 1on1 fights, news at 10.

They proceeded to corpse jump. Because skill.

Brode.7689:

Oh also, this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4LtFzacy2M

oh YOU! You got your kitten handed to you 1v1 by a mesmer had to have your necro friend come save you last night.

Jokes on you, I’m looking forward to fighting T1 again.

The holiday excuse is a little weak at this point…

Thats just it though, it wasnt a pug zerg. It was mostly VR. I’m not the one who said it was a pug zerg, if you happen to take offense to that.

Also yay, being sick on new years eve. Time to stay home and do nothing.

deathTouch.9706:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

All nasty hate and spite aside, tonight was fun.
Good fights tonight on MagBL~

@deathtouch, that minimap says you had more than 8.

AoN ran 8 tonight, the other dots are part of the PUG zerg.

I’m surprised you guys had fun, but to each their own I guess.

You missed the rest of the night then. All the fights leading up to the capture of hills and the ones afterwards with TG were quite fun.

If you couldent tell though, we were more focused on that PUG zerg than you. No one is saying you had more than 8 or that you didnt do whatever you were trying to do, but it was MOSTLY the zerg doing the work in this particular case.

All nasty hate and spite aside, tonight was fun.
Good fights tonight on MagBL~

@deathtouch, that minimap says you had more than 8.

Chaba.5410:

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1528524_2017267621661812_1509786582_n.jpg

Might I make sure you’ve seen this post, UHD?