Guild Wars 2

I would imagine the switch from Perception to Bloodlust combined with Frost Spirit alone would be worthwhile. But you do have an issue with Vuln in phase two, one warrior could do 18, but the rest would be iffy.

Dub.1273:

I didn’t participate but the reason for using a second warrior might have been OMM!.

Ranger opening strike will apply 20 stacks of vuln, which would be good for phase 1. First war can OMM phase 2. Should work, I think.

If you switch one of the warriors to a ranger, you will get OP frost spirit and your team can stack bloodlust instead of perception. While the ranger’s dps will be slightly less than the 2nd warrior, the fact that you get 250 extra power for the whole party + 7% base damage modifiers in exchange for 100 precision, you would probably be overall more dps as a party.

Go go 13 second kill.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Add the new [SOLO] speedclear videos! under 15 seconds

Mesmer Perspective: http://youtu.be/IBn6-EvhnTE
Warrior perspective: http://youtu.be/-qs0wHh-FYw
Ele perspective: http://youtu.be/rp3vMEdgccE

Wow, nice!

I’m like a 1.5. I make good-guy Obal carry me.

How about people stop judging anet by their “intentions” and judge them by their actions? If you can run past from mobs and they leash, then it is pretty clear what is and isn’t optional. And you don’t have to play junior psychologist guessing games to figure it out.

As a thought exercise, I wondered how much fractal skins would sell for on the TP if they were not account bound on acquire.

I imagine that in demand skins (axe, gs, sword) would probably sell for a great deal, especially at first while supply is low. And they would likely retain their value fairly well.

Incidentally, this is a solution to the problems of fractals not being rewarding, being unable to get the skins you deserve and being unable to do anything with your 7th Trident skin.

colesy.8490:

The best bit is, you can’t even crit the boss so PVT is fine. And yet here we are with legions of scrubs crying.

Power/Vit/Condition is the best armor for the tree. everyone knows this. Only casuals dont have a carrion set to swap to in their inventory.

fungihoujo.8476:

-A mechanic, reflection, which should logically deflect the spider’s ranged attacks being completely ineffective- check

Thats funny. When we did it yesterday reflects worked fine. Maybe teach your party how to stand inside them.

I am inspired to make a tafu haiku

big tree dead noobs
forum post babies cry
no relects quaggan tonic

Viable is great when the optimal is unknown. Once optimal is known, there is only one viable.

Next up, killing Grenth in A4 with only lifesteal.

The fastest and easiest way to do the Husk room is to have one person solo the boss.

Some videos are for show. Some are genuine guides. Not hard to figure out which is which.

“Let me compile a list of the inherently obvious… and then slip in one troll statement to throw everyone off.”

Rage.9723:

The big problem is being basically forced into certain build compositions to beat the path.

No you don’t. Almost every class can bring things to stop projectiles. Maybe if you’re using 5 necros you might struggle or something.

But even then, you can do the boss without reflects. You can do the boss without armor. All you have to do is dodge (is that part of your party composition?) or use reflects. Pick one. Neither of them require you to change your party composition.

Why are you speculating about “intentions” is the point? Until they make a statement one way or the other there is no use in speculating about intentions. And I can think of at least two Arah encounters that have similarly unforgiving mechanics in the event of a wipe, plus the one fractal example I’ve already cited.

I used to run tafu multiple times per day on all my alts to get the rabid gear everyone wants. between these spiders and this token nerf my burn condition damage tank guardian (full Rabid obviously) will never get geared out. guess ill stick to my magic find set.

Also, I found a relevant bug. I was doing cliffside and a bunch of chanters spawned and I jumped off the cliff in fear and landed in tafu and was swarmed by spiders and killed. please nerf.

Fade.1743:

@Olba and Player Character.

Okay…let me break it down. The 30/0/0/10/30 has to use both weapon spots in a rotation in order to perform the same damage as the 30/25/0/0/15 does. However…the latter build only uses the greatsword to get roughly the same numbers.

The choice is the first spec is better in groups (as said before, due to might stacks), but has a more difficult rotation that takes up both your weapon slots to utilize to full effect. The second spec is better in solo since you can just stay in greatsword and use the second weapon slot for a Longbow or rifle since swapping out means you lose might stacks.

I’d still choose the second since the DPS is going to be in the very, very low percentile in terms of difference. But then again…the first could also be used for an axe based build instead…so…pick your poison.

Let me further breakdown the breakdown for you.

even if you preferred a “pure greatsword” set up, your dps would be higher with a 30/0/0/10/30 build so long as you had two greatswords one of which had a sigil of battle and you swapped back and forth on cool down.

I just blew your mind.

Oh wait.

I just realized that people who want “pure greatsword” builds are usually bads who want a longbow on their swap so they can ranged boss that are tew hardz. Why someone is going to spend so much time min/maxing their build decision only to throw away any gain from the min/max by ranging bosses, I’ll never know.

How do you know it isn’t working as intended? Has a dev made an official statement like they did for Cliffside fractal? Why, exactly, is it wrong for at least one of the paths to have a somewhat challenging encounter? Why, do you contend, that the appropriate difficulty level of f/u is to be on par with the other paths? Isn’t it possible that the devs intended for it to be more difficult?

30/0/0/10/30 is superior in group play by a fairly significant margin. 30/25 is slightly better in solo play. But min maxing for solo play is a ridiculous concept unless you’re trying to complete solo boss kill records or something like that.

Why not add an option on the options menu to have it auto-dodge for you when a boss does a big wind-up attack?

Dungorthb.3281:

You guys can argue forever about builds but the majority of you don’t even touch the better content of this game, if you did then you would understand what traits you needed and what you need to bring to the group.

Yeah i’m almost to fotm 28 once I get there I expect the challenges to ramp up. Also that TA f/u dungeon is tew hard.

Rage.9723:

Notice you said that without mentioning your group composition.

5 people with a brain.

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

I love when people from the class subforums wander into the dungeon forum

all wide eyed, all full of hope and moxie, all believing in themselves

:D

@Nike
Would bloodlust or perception be better for my build?

Assuming 25 Might, Banner of Discipline, and Fury. Also assuming 5 conditions on target.

Bloodlust is better by about half a percent.

Oddly enough, if you use Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup (100pow +10% crit damage) Perception becomes better by about 1.5%. Since that costs a crap ton of gold probably best to stick with Bloodlust.

edit: I didnt take into account Scholar runes or Sigils. and i counted Close to Death as 9%, which is what it is over time.

91 power and 18% crit damage is nothing? That’s like 11-12% overall dps. And you quibble about losing 5% from a sigil as a reason not to use Energy?

what

Rage.9723:

Twilight Arbor F/U path does not put me in a mood to celebrate.

I ran it yesterday perfectly fine. Vivena is harder than the end boss. Celebrate, and let the good times roll.

A necro in full Knights is about as tough as a full zerker guardian. Which is to say, you still really need to dodge everything and you might as well not kitten your DPS in the process.

Unleashed.6195:

The question of how valuable that evade is I want to try to get my head around. It has a smaller CD than Riposte and I believe there are some attacks you can evade but not block, but Axe+Mace and Axe+Sword would provide most of the DPS of Axe+Mace/Axe+Mace if vuln is already capped.

I don’t think the answer will come on a spreadsheet to the how valuable WWA question is. I find it quite valuable against enemies like Subject Alpha and Lupicus, whereas others may not.

Plus using Rush and WWA for trash run mobility is something difficult to measure. I find Arah and TA trash runs immensely easier with a GS than going pure axe. Granted you could always equip the GS for the trash run and switch back, but that seems like it would get old fast.

Unleashed.6195:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Whats hilarious is, the 30/0/0/10/30 trait allocation would be better even in a pure GS swap to a GS with Battle sigil setup than your 30/30/0/10/0 build.

FWIW, you haven’t kept track of the thread very well. As I’d hoped, information came to light (in large part thanks to Paundro and others) that helped establish where you can get gains from 30/0/0/10/30 over 30/30/0/10/0 reliably.

Since that time, the question has circled to which weapons to use with 30/0/0/10/30 for highest raw dps. I also found 2.6% (close enough to three where I imagine even you wouldn’t quibble) improvement from using both GS and Axe/Mace. However, the rotation complexity (not swapping weapons, but maintaining CDs that do not align well on both weapon sets, force cancelling chains or channeleds) to earn that 2.6% increase I do not believe is worth it nor realistic in real world situations.

Beating on a stationary target? Sure. Dodging/watching for red circle spam/moving/switching to an add that spawns… all that added complexity is likely to cause tiny but accumulated delays that eat away at the % gain.

The question of utility is different and one that’s likely to change boss to boss, the goal was to first establish which was the most reliable, consistent highest dps.

You said before you’d said all you had to say on that matter, but am glad to see you back to participating. Now may be a good time, if the thread is worth your time to respond, to read it as well.

I admit, I have not tracked the thread very well. I’m glad you’ve come around to recognizing I was right, kudos to you for showing the intellectual honesty required to admit such.

Additionally, when the warrior trait changed happened on June 25, I crunched the numbers (actually prior to the change when the notes leaked early) and determined that a pure axe build would have superior dps and have a much easier rotation than gs+axe/mace. And the original build guide i published was pure axe.

However, in real world game play I found that having the evade from WWA while maintaining DPS worked out better. A 3rd dodge that also does considerable damage turns out to be highly advantageous from a practicality standpoint. I reckon pure axe is 1% better than gs+axemace on paper but to me having the extra evade more than makes up for it.

I still got to wonder why
I could never see that man cry
till I seen that man die

FWIW, I would play GS+Axe Mace even if it was 3% worse dps, simply because it has more versatility and utility than a pure greatsword build. Luckily it’s 3% better so I can rest easy knowing I get the best of both world.

Whats hilarious is, the 30/0/0/10/30 trait allocation would be better even in a pure GS swap to a GS with Battle sigil setup than your 30/30/0/10/0 build.

Dub.1273:

We probably won’t ever have. Those who apply to us must be able of solo’ing some game encounters anyway if they don’t provide other things like cookies n beer.

Ah ha! So you do have some requirements.

PainShot.7154:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Spotter/FS if you can manage it after covering the above.

what do you mean with that?

I mean, if you aren’t capping Might and Vuln and Fury worrying about Ranger buffs isn’t super important.

3 berkerker warriors with GS, guardian, mesmer – perfect for every dungeon. Insane damage with buff and protection

Thats a good party composition, but we aren’t talking about good, we are talking about the best.

Btw, never seen ranger in my party in dungeons (did dungeon master with random pugs from lfg)

We aren’t talking about bad pug groups, we are talking about perfect world dream teams for organized groups.

Dub.1273:

For some it’s important to have teamspeak, dungeon master and fractal level 40+ to actively participate in whatever the guild does. Our requirements are almost only based on player’s skill and mentality, for our playing purposes having above listed things just isn’t important.

It sounds easy doesn’t it? Then again, I doubt you have to sift through dozens of applications a month. Once you have to deal with that amount of applications, all of whom think they have skills and a winner mentality, you will have to come up with systems to trim down the pool of applicants.

Dub.1273:

colesy.8490:

I don’t understand how you could get refused straight away, their requirements don’t seem that harsh.

I don’t meet them either.

Exceptional applicants are always considered.

colesy.8490:

I don’t understand how you could get refused straight away, their requirements don’t seem that harsh.

Our policy is to not comment publicly on applications, and privacy there is super important.

But like you said, our basic requires are out there for anyone to see and unless you are extremely exceptional (like a top 50 pvp’er looking to transition to pve, a well known top player in some other game etc) we are usually fairly strict in adhering to them. We don’t consider them especially high, or too much to ask of an applicant.

I wasn’t counting fractals =P.

But still, asking a warrior to manage a weapon swap as part of a dps rotation isn’t a huge deal. I mean, elementalists manage 4 weapon swaps and cool downs. Engineers also have complicated dps rotations so this isnt me saying you have to be playing guitar hero on hard mode 150 APM to maximize a warrior dps; it’s one simple rotation with a weapon swap in the middle where the cool downs mostly line up and do the work for you.

aophts.9862:

lol, got rejected, guess i’m not good enough.

And i don’t want only the dungeon master achiev, i want to run dungeons on a regular basis with a organized group.

Crawl before you walk, grasshopper.

The problem with the OP’s ideal comp is they have no way to get 25 stacks of vuln maintained consistently on bosses.

25 Might
25 vuln
Perma-Fury
Banners
Spotter/FS if you can manage it after covering the above.

That’s the framework basically. Within that, the Might and banners are easy because a fire field and banners can be handled by 1 or 2 warriors. Fury is is covered by Warrior + Ranger (who also covers frost spirit and spotter).

Vuln is tricky, and probably the only single class who can get 20+ stacks on their own are Engies. So as Guang has said, Warrior, Ranger, Engie is the core since it covers every desireable buff. The last two slots you fill based on the instance. I would argue Thief is invaluable for quite a few dungeons. Mesmer has it’s well known uses. And Guardian utility and dps is also well known to be useful.

Ele has one highly abusable mechanic, but for general purpose dungeon running it is much like a Thief, except instead of trash blinds and Shadow Refuge it brings easier Might stacking. So it’s your call to which you need/want.

This is for general purpose-all comers dungeon teams, for specific speed clear records you are obviously going to tailor your party comp to whatever the instance dictates, which may have special circumstances that make a less desirable profession more useful.

alternatively, you can stack 4 warriors and a Mesmer and get a team that is 95% as effective as the ideal group and put in significantly less effort for those nights when you dont care about max efficiency you just want a turn off brain faceroll session.

Metaton.2308:

Thank you Bright and the others for your answer and time. I have my answer now for my question from Bright. I dont have 6-8 pro friends unfortunately and you are right with the quality/quantity. Probably making a new guild is really bound to fail. I already checked the big dungeon guilds requirements such as HC. (i am on Eu, Piken Square). I have the DM title, but i havent really into fractals yet.

Based on your experience, my advice would be to pug like a mad man and cultivate a good friends list. Build the community of friends you currently lack, and then follow Bright’s advice for building the guild around a core of friends.

You have made several references to a “cost” of managing your weapon swaps and a loss of “situational awareness.” Quite frankly, most experienced warriors can weapon swap on cool down without even looking at the timer. After you put in thousands of hours on a character you hopefully learn how to execute a relatively simple dps rotation. It isn’t too much to ask to have a player learn how to maximize his profession.

GS/rifle/bow because there’s always that one boss or creep that can’t be fought in close combat.

Name three.

I really, really don’t want to play this game, but I’m bored at work so here goes…

Discipline gives…

30% crit damage
15% crit chance
8 stacks of Might permanently maintained
20% signet cool down
The ability to use Axe auto attacks instead of GS auto attacks.
The ability to use Axe/mace vulnerability infliction skills on cool down
The ability to use Tremor on cooldown

So what are the implications?

The crit chance gains are a wash. The vulnerability is mostly a wash. Sigil of Battle/Fast Hands/Versatile Whatever giving 8 Might stacks permanently is superior to Forceful GS.

So in favor of Arms you have…

1. Inconsequential weak bleeds
2. 10% base damage modifier
3. A cool down reduction for GS skills
4. 3 stacks of Might from Forceful GS

In favor of Discipline you have

1. 30% crit damage
2. 4-5 stacks of Might more than the Arms build
3. Your choice of Signet cd reduction, Axe cd reduction or Destruction of the empowered when it matters, or a 25% IMS buff.

So we have to weigh the benefits of 30% crit damage and 8 stacks of Might vs 10% base damage modifier and 3-4 stacks of Might. As with all normal buffs each of these builds will hit about 97% chance to crit (100% with Spotter), the math is quite clear that the 30/0/0/10/30 build’s superior crit damage and Might stacking component would allow it to do significantly more DPS. And this is before we even consider the superiority of the Axe auto attack chain versus the GS autoattack chain. Once you factor that in, the picture should (I hope) become very clear for you.

And that is all I really have to say about this topic any more.

spoj.9672:

I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.

RIP Withering Precision.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The thing about Close to Death is that while it’s a 20% buff, it’s only active half the time, so it’s effectively only a 10% DPS boost. If you absolutely had to pick between that or Target the Weak, the latter is better.

Actually it’s a bit worse than that. In terms of DPS, since it will be killing faster once it hits 50% it will spend less time at the below 50 threshold rather than 50/50. I don’t have the exact math but it works out to be like 8% overall.

“I’m more than somebody.”

Please find me that quote. I’d love to know where I said that.

You’re right, I provided a blank spreadsheet. I’ve done the work in countless other threads, some of which have been linked here. Forgive me for not wanting to do the work AGAIN each time the question comes up. Rather than ask me to do the work again, it would be far easier for you to do a little research perhaps?

I’ll humor you though.

30/0/0/10/30 = 14,242 EP
30/30/0/10/0 = 13,755 EP

Your build is 3.4% worse give or take. And that is being generous and assuming 25 Might stacks, which your build will never achieve for more than a few seconds.

For whakittens worth, I’ve run my Necro a lot in dungeons like CoE where single target is all that matters. The personal DPS seems fine but the lack of team buffs basically makes them worthless. All they can sell is Vuln stacking which an engineer does fantastically better.

You can insult me personally all you like. It won’t change that you’re debating settled fact and coming to incorrect conclusions.

And my spreadsheet does take into account traits. It’s called ‘base damage modifiers.’ Calculating Effective Power is basic GW2 theorycraft, and the fact that you appear to have no knowledge of it makes your lengthy posts tiresome. And when you take the time to insult me it makes you appear more ignorant.

My reply to you, even if you didn’t enjoy the tone, sufficiently answered your question. I gave you the theory and I gave you the tools to calculate the math basis. It seems like you are willfully ignoring reality because it doesn’t match your desired result.

I’m still waiting for people to consider Thief to be meta for high level fractals. Not sure why it’s taking so long, either. Heck, keep your ele, run 2g,1w,1e,1t and your runs will be smoother and faster.

Since the three triggers that seem to matter are clones and entangling roots, perhaps it has to do with # of targets. Perhaps if there are more than 7 enemies on his platform he triggers? I suspect not, but its a possibility.

The other thing I considered is that it’s stupid RNG. Anet made an attack that is supposed to happen 10% of the time, missed a decimal point and now it triggers 1% of the time.