Guild Wars 2

NinjaEd.3946:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

hunnybun.1380:

Hmm I just tested this in AC with my 20/20/15/0/15 warrior and my 0/30/15/15/10 thief and the thief damage felt much lower.
Two things I approximated from the big numbers:
War GS autoattack ~ Thief pistol whip
War 100 Blades > Thief heartseeker even on bosses with <50% hp

Does thief have to go full zerk to outdps a warrior? Because then I’d have to give up thief style points (ie +1 to stealth, dodge refund, stealth revive)

Oh and I ran with a new player team that didn’t stack much might b/c I didn’t want to join an exp run with my nube thief…

Well… you are comparing two builds that are far outside the meta. If you compared the 30/25/0/0/15 warrior and the 30/30/0/0/10 Thief you will find that the Thief has superior DPS.

And to answer a point from earlier, there are almost no places where you can’t get the flanking/backstab bonuses. And the few places where you can’t? Those are the places where you will be picking up a Fiery Greatsword, which combined with Improvisation trait you will have the top dps in the game, period.

LOL @ improvisation trait. Last thing I’m going to trait for is something I can’t even make on my own.

It’s a team game dude.

hunnybun.1380:

Hmm I just tested this in AC with my 20/20/15/0/15 warrior and my 0/30/15/15/10 thief and the thief damage felt much lower.
Two things I approximated from the big numbers:
War GS autoattack ~ Thief pistol whip
War 100 Blades > Thief heartseeker even on bosses with <50% hp

Does thief have to go full zerk to outdps a warrior? Because then I’d have to give up thief style points (ie +1 to stealth, dodge refund, stealth revive)

Oh and I ran with a new player team that didn’t stack much might b/c I didn’t want to join an exp run with my nube thief…

Well… you are comparing two builds that are far outside the meta. If you compared the 30/25/0/0/15 warrior and the 30/30/0/0/10 Thief you will find that the Thief has superior DPS.

And to answer a point from earlier, there are almost no places where you can’t get the flanking/backstab bonuses. And the few places where you can’t? Those are the places where you will be picking up a Fiery Greatsword, which combined with Improvisation trait you will have the top dps in the game, period.

The best ranged Thief weapon is Dancing Daggers

And a Thief does more damage than a warrior in Dungeons and Fractals presuming you don’t die.

Rigel.3092:

148.4K kills and this build still rocks wvw kitten but beware of being focus-fired….bad voodoo.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNBiYDbkpjGPr8wzDORDIoHaYWUFqC2R6BawGpBA-z0CBojAoLRO1cIr5og5pQVWFRjVXDT9Kp6XwaYAqYQBAQAc0je0je0j2G34K34KXZpAYSZE-w

About how many kills do you have to have with a build before you realize whether it’s good or bad? Just wondering, because you mentioned how many WvW kills you have as if it is a proof of concept, but you could roll a full Sentinels staff zerg guardian and get that many kills while actually DOING absolutely nothing.

Anierna.6918:

The vuln from the LH ele and thief means the War can go 30/0/0/20/20 instead of 30/10/0/20/10, which is what Nike advocated in his vid. Nike was wrong; not mentioning that Guang’s build was better when vuln is already capped was a significant oversight (perhaps made intentionally? I dont particularly like Guang either, but I would have given him credit, and I wouldnt have taken the shot at him that Nike did in his vid).

No, I am right. There are more considerations in dungeons and fractals than fiery rushing against a wall. the build I posted isn’t a CoE or AC specific build. Obviously, you tailor your build based around instance and party comps, especially in record runs. However, for a general purpose build you can use anywhere in any group, mine is a pretty superior trait allocation. Which build would you bring to Arah? which would you bring to Fractals? Clearly, your Ascalonian Catacombs farm build is not the final word.

FWIW, I get along fine with GK. He is happy to correct me when I make a mistake and I’m happy to do the same for him. He didn’t take it as a personal attack, nor was it intended to be. Generally speaking, his build was the first published EA min/max and as such it is/was the meta. I had to explain and justify why I deviated from it in, which I did. If I had said “Guang is dumb” or “Guang is a bad player” that would definitely be a shot. Saying he overlooked the value of Rending Strikes and over-emphasized the value of Eviscerate is not a shot by any means.

edit: spoj. Weth did the math breakdown and the Eviscerate spam comes out a bit behind against bosses and way behind against non-bosses

To be honest, if you are running a pure axe build the best trait allocation is 30/25/0/10/5 since you will hit even more damage modifiers and the benefits of Fast Hands in a pure axe build is minimal. Obviously, I only advise a pure axe build in a group that properly utilizes fire fields for Might stacking, or Fractals. However, in fractals an Empowered Allies setup is pretty great.

It’s faster than a lot of more popular dungeons. I think the issue is the bosses are just not really fun.

“Dungeons so easy just put on zerk press 2 and face roll lupi against a wall so easy fgs exploit corner los stack zerk faceroll loot exploit skip kill”

Yes. Dungeons are so easy, yet apparently so hard people have to pay gold to me to help them get Arah tokens. If it was so face roll, I wouldnt be able to sell Arah paths all day.

Here is a hint: it’s only faceroll when you’ve done it dozens of times and so have the other people in your party. When 5 first-timers do Arah, nobody is face-rolling anything.

Dual.8953:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Thaddeus.4891:

If they make support more relying on build and gear, you could achieve a better balance between DPS and Support build.

And why, pray tell, would anyone want that? Are you absolutely sure that state of affairs (LF1m Supported Geared Guardian) is better than what we have now? It’s different yes, but I would say you could not prove to me that it would be more fun or better. Therefore it would simply be changing for the sake of change, which is among the worst reasons to change things, especially when the current state of affairs is working as intended.

There a multitude of players who want to run utility centered specs, but are completely snubbed by the current dungeon meta because their spec doesn’t do high DPS, so I say yes, there is a calling for change.

Yeah but those people don’t understand the game. Catering to people who don’t understand that there is no such thing as a dedicated “utility spec” in guild wars 2 is like catering to people who want a cheeseburger from pizza hut.

The core concept of the pve in this game is…

1. Everyone does dps.
2. Everyone provides support (differing in capabilities by class)
3. No one is forced to choose between DPS or Support.
4. If you choose to neglect DPS (clerics Boon duration mesmer) you are suboptimal. If you choose to ignore Support (5 sig warrior no banners in group) you are suboptimal. Everyone is at their best when they maximize their DPS while bringing as much party support as they are capable of.

I draw a lot of flak for saying this, but anyone who doesn’t want this gameplay is simply asking for a trinity system. It might be a soft trinity or it might be 3 different roles from the traditional dps/support/heals trinity but nonetheless it appears that the “dedicated support spec” crowd just wants some form of a trinity system.

Sorry but no. We (people who like the game for what it is) do not want a trinity system. We do not want certain classes or particular trinity types being required for dungeon groups. We want the essential nature of this game undiluted by cry-hards who pine away for the trinity system that the developers of this game were quite clear in indicating that they were walking away from.

The only thing I’m saying is : Hey currently, only DPS build are efficient.

There really is no such thing as a “dps build.” All builds should be expected to do their share of DPS, that should be a given in any build. And there are a great many examples of how the “meta dps build” for a given profession isn’t even their highest potential DPS spec, but they use a lower DPS configuration due to support considerations.

I have to disagree about things working as intended since Anet is nerfing critical damage and is supposedly actively working on changing the full damage dungeon meta. If it was working as intended they wouldn’t be doing anything.

No, it working as intended. They intended from day one for the more advanced players to be using full glass cannon builds in PVE. All they said was they didn’t anticipate the damage numbers people have been able to achieve through team buffs, synergy, and power creep. As a result they are toning down critical damage a bit to make the numbers in line with their expectations. No where did they say that they were going to do anything about making advanced players have to wear tanky gear.

About AI, I agree the gw1 AI was pretty good. That said, Wethospu had a quote before that still rings true: becareful what you wish for, because if they make content so hard that the elite pve crowd has to start wearing tanky gear and healing specs to survive it, it will be so hard that casuals have no chance to beat it. The river of tears from content that difficult will make the complaints about the dps meta seem like nothing.

" Due to a diverse skill system allowing for a multitude of vastly different character builds, every profession in Guild Wars 2 is capable of fitting each of the combat roles (damage, support, control) or are sometimes even the result of a combination of them."
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combat

Everything in that quote, which you seem to think contradicts what I said, supports my argument. A good build will be able to CC, Support, and Damage. This is what they designed the game to be. I don’t read anything in that quote which says they expect a soft trinity.

Thaddeus.4891:

If they make support more relying on build and gear, you could achieve a better balance between DPS and Support build.

And why, pray tell, would anyone want that? Are you absolutely sure that state of affairs (LF1m Supported Geared Guardian) is better than what we have now? It’s different yes, but I would say you could not prove to me that it would be more fun or better. Therefore it would simply be changing for the sake of change, which is among the worst reasons to change things, especially when the current state of affairs is working as intended.

Wethospu.6437:

Could you guys seriously stop this daydreaming? There won’t be perfectly challenging and fun content with unique surprises each time you run it.

This thread would be about 10 pages shorter if people thought, “is this proposal remotely possible considering development resources available?” before they hit Reply.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Next is the difficulty/progression question. Personally I’ve always felt that the difficulty scaling in Fractals is a bit redundant. After all, once the creatures have started to one-shot you, does it continue to matter that they keep hitting harder? I know this has been commented on, but I’d like to hear some thoughts on alternatives. If not difficulty scaling (or supposing difficulty scaling simply stopped at a certain level), what else would add meaning to progressing through higher level Fractals? How does that align with your goals, whatever they may be (rewards, defeating hard content, discovery, etc).

As someone who was able to do fotm 79, I feel like I can comment on this intelligently. I feel the best way to get beyond the “everything one shots you” and the “instabilities that are too punishing are avoided” problems is to simply make the bosses in each fractal get new mechanics at each tier. New moves, new tricks. so that eventually when you reach a high enough level, fighting bloomhunger is like fighting Lupicus in terms of mechanics to learn.

edit: I just read your response about how hard that is to develop. I think an alternative is to isolate the good instabilities that make the fractals more interesting and fun, and have them apply to the entire tier, rather than have a new one each level some of which are soul crushing bad.

Enokitake.1742:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but you can’t argue those are even close to the same in effectiveness in PVE. .

We aren’t arguing that. We don’t want them to be the same effectiveness. A guy on crutches shouldn’t be able to beat a healthy person in a footrace. A guy who needs defensive gear to survive content shouldn’t be able to out DPS someone who doesn’t. We like the state of affairs where more skill = faster and better. We don’t want the same effectiveness so I wonder what you’re reading in our responses that makes you think we do.

Clumsy.6257:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

When you say its the meta team composition, people might be fooled and actually believe it.

If by meta you mean the fastest, then yes it is. The speed you get from stacking warriors and guardians isn’t acceptable by my standards, however I’m not sure about yours.

@hendo Notice i clearly said dungeons in my original post. I didn’t mention fractals. And yes all bosses in regular dungeons are easily pulled and melted in seconds (there are 2-3 exceptions though).

Yeah your standards are way higher than mine. To echo Hendo, I can’t wait to see you obliterate all the records on gwscr with your awesome 2 ele 2 thief team composition. Those records are my standard so since yours are way higher it will be no problem.

You guys could start with Arah, if you want my suggestion since those would do the most to make a name for yourself.

I have to echo Raven. You’ll be a better player and a better teammate in the future if you learn to solo him without the wall. You will learn your rotations better and learn his mechanics better. Save the wall for when you’re trying to push your time as low as it can go, but until then soloing him in the open is a much better demonstration of skills.

FWIW, when people apply to my guild they often include videos of soloing Lupi, and while no matter what it is an accomplishment, its infinitely more impressive when they do it without using a wall because it shows me they actually know what is happening in phase 3.

With a name like that, I was expecting something at least close to meta or at least using dps gear. This just isn’t what you think it is.

When you say its the meta team composition, people might be fooled and actually believe it.

Other people have posted my thoughts for me by proxy before (TAkittenbeing added back as a fractal and rewards rebalancing) so I’ll sum up the most important issues for the devs to focus on…

1. Rewards (refer to my other post by Tree with how to do it properly)
2. Dredge
3. Opening higher levels

Fix these three and fractals don’t need a lot of the other rather insane over the top suggestions people are making.

Things that are NOT priorities

1. “Rolling”
2. “Obligatory Guardians”
3. Leaderboards

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s a point in which sacrificing group support for dps gives diminishing returns. Between regen banners and empower and full zerk gear there’s plenty of dps in the build while also providing sustain and dps buff to the whole team.

That works both ways. That lolheals build is only like…

Trashway: 14,347
Meta: 23,585

…39.9% worse dps than the meta build? On the plus side, you boost total team dps by almost 20%. And you get some super stronk regeneration, which I’m absolutely sure is worth 19% of your dps to achieve. So sure.

The meta build hasn’t been using Vigorous Precision for a while now, and it hasn’t even been noticeable.

Whats your next excuse?

That build is worse than 15/15/10/20/10 Hammer in every conceivable way.

Are we really still talking about AH guardians as being viable? Really? In 2014?

Scandalous really.

It would be nice if someone would actually post relative information about the Meta build other than its the best.

Like what? There is a comprehensive guide stickied to this forum with more information and videos than you could possibly want.

Really, honestly, truly the single best trait Guardians have for pve is Master of Consecrations. This single Adept level trait enables superior reflect uptime and condition removal. Any instance where you don’t need or want reflects or condition removal you don’t want or need a guardian. If you aren’t utilizing a Guardian for reflects or condition removal your party is better off bringing a Thief or an Ele or a Engineer who will all boost team DPS by more than a Guardian.

Therefore, any PvE guardian build that doesn’t use Master of Consecration should be rejected out of hand as unviable, as Guardians themselves aren’t viable in any instance where MoC isn’t useful. What do we conclude from that? You can show me an AH build that does comparable DPS to the meta build, no doubt. But can you show me an AH build that does comparable DPS to the meta build while having Master of Consecrations? No, you cannot, such a build does not exist until we get 80 trait points.

This is exactly like debating a 30/30/0/0/10 Mesmer build vs the meta which uses 20+ in Inspiration. Ofcourse the 30/30 mesmer build has great DPS, but if you don’t have Glamour cooldowns and Wardens Feedback as necessary, why are you bringing a mesmer in the first place? It makes no sense. If you don’t need a mesmer to do mesmery things, bring another class that will actually contribute more and not be a leech. The same is true here: if you dont need a guardian dont play a leech build, switch to a different toon that would actually compliment your party.

I do hope someone links my old Fractured for them (I’d do it but with a 3600 flood control it is hard to post things) with a few updates for the things that are resolved and new stuff we found.

My number one new suggestion is going to be using TAFU as a 3rd tier fractal. Replace dredge with TAFU and it would be even better.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

(money, clothes, hoes)

Lions Arch dungeon, no thanks.

Lions Arch Elite Zone? Yes, please.

This is a classic Play How You Want Thread

1. OP mades a dubious anti-meta claim.
2. OP is challenged on it using examples/proof/etc of why the meta choice is superior.
3. OP responds with amorphous comment about how it fits with his “playstyle” as if somehow skills work differently on his client than everyone elses
4. OP is challenged that, no, it is objectively worse.
5. OP finds one tiny, infinitesimally minute circumstances where it is debatablely useful.
6. Everyone scratches their head.

It all comes back to the fatal flaw in their reasoning, people want their gear selection to say something about their playstyle. It doesn’t.

I’ve said it before and no one has ever refuted it: gear in this game is not the determining factor in your playstyle. Gear is a choice of where you fall on the defense offense spectrum. Your playstyle is defined by traits and weapon choice.

Bottom line is some people want to change that fundamental feature of the game’s character building process, and some don’t. What is quite obvious is that the higher your experience/skill level, and the higher your understanding of the game’s mechanics, the more likely you are not to be interested in changing the current character building process for RP considerations.

Right, and this game isn’t about playing defined roles. DPS, Support and Control all handled by every member of the party.

Maybe YOU are advocating making the game more like LoL or TF2 (why you couldnt just go play those? I dunno) but go and read all those “nerf zerker” threads. Most of the know-nothings posting in there were not talking about playing a game with roles, they were talking about roleplaying. They were saying things that were clearly RP based like, “I want to play a healer!” or “I don’t want to do dps I want to do Support!”

They clearly do not want to play the game Anet designed, they want to play some classic trinity game and it’s painfully obvious.

I try to describe the game as it is in reality, not as it might be, or as it would be if amateur game designers were in charge.

I don’t have a “fatalistic” view point, because that would imply I was unhappy with the state of the game. I am quite satisfied with the character building process in GW2, so contrary to your point, any radical change would almost certainly be for the worse.

Lastly, I don’t relate to roleplayers. I just don’t. And unfortunately you aren’t going to find too many members of this subcommunity who do.

Look at it from my perspective for a bit: you are asking me to support a radical change (which is likely to be for the worse, for me) in order to placate the desires of roleplayers who want to be more immersed in their character building process. When you look at it from that perspective, you see how ridiculous it is, right? Potentially ruining a skill-based game we like so carebears can go on imaginary adventures more easily?

Sorry, no.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Ahh, I see the hang-up.
I think you’re not quite understanding what people feel they’re missing out on when they complain about support and control.

They don’t just want to use these mechanics, they want to make interesting choices when they’re building their characters and re-contextualize the same combat experience from a different perspective by giving themselves a different goal.

I see where you (and they) are making the big mistake. You see, some people (you, them) mistakenly believe that gear prefix has some link to playstyle, and is relevant in character building to define playstyle; it does not.

Playstyle is determined primarily by weapon and utility skills, secondarily by traits and only tangentially by gear.

Gear, in Guild Wars 2, is simply a reflection on where the player falls on a spectrum of anticipated damage received for the particular game type. If you feel you will be able to avoid (or sustain through) significant damage you can run gear that has additional DPS in lieu of additional defense. This is common among experienced PvE’ers. In WvW zergs, by contrast, there is large amounts of unavoidable damage, so a tougher gearset is desirable.

This is the system as the game exists. Skills + Traits = playstyle. Gear = linear range between defense and offense.

The folks you’re describing want a totally different game, where your gear informs your playstyle as much as skills and traits do. Unfortunately, that is not this game. If you want to radically redesign the character build process to help support your character building roleplay considerations (for that is what you’re describing) I think it would honestly be easier to go play a different game that is more conducive to gear helping you better roleplay in fantasy land with your dolly dress up.

zMajc.4659:

Unfortunately it just doesn’t work for me in high lvl fractals. I have a much better performance all around with axe offhand compared to mace.

Explain, specifically, how “it doesnt work” for you? Does your Mace not knock down the Ascalonian Fighters? Does your Warhorn not put Weakness on the dredge?

Explain, specifically, how offhand Axe gives you better performance. Does your Axe #5 magically have higher dps than just autoattacking? Does your Axe #4 do something other than add Fury you didn’t need?

I think it needs to be made ultra-clear: you are better of equipping offhand Mace and not using any of the mace skills than you are equipping offhand axe and activating any of the skills.

runeblade.7514:

Nikaido.3457:

He doesn’t realize how much we can depend on mace 5, or blinds, even immobilize sometimes (arah tar ele), interrupt, fear, area of denial like ring of warding (ooze in thaumanova for eg) etc.

He either 1/ spends all his time in AC 2/ spent too much time watching speedrun videos without understanding how they even work.

Or 3. CC isn’t really useful when stacking. Immobilize, cripple, chill when stacking? What a laugh.

LOL CC SUCKS VS BOSSES

LOL CC SUCKS VS BOSSES #2

LOL CHILL AND CRIPPLE SUCK VS BOSSES

I hope no one seriously listens to this advice.

If you “don’t see” why mace is better than axe you really don’t understand.

Mace 4 = 4% dps boost for your team
Mace 5 = on demand aoe knock down for trash mobs or interrupt for bosses.

Axe 4 = useless Fury when every warrior build already had perma Fury
Axe 5 = low dps aoe attack that is worse than an auto attack in every case except 6+ enemies which happens essentially almost never

You would be better off with offhand warhorn than axe when fighting large groups of mobs, since the AOE Weakness is going to be very significant.

Against difficult bosses, you can replace the mace with off hand sword with energy sigil for the additional dodge and block.

robertul.3679:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

RedStar.4218:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Excuse him for not making it clear to you: when you range bosses, they stop using certain attacks. Just like when you range lupicus he doesn’t kick or swipe you. Or when Ginva the butch can’t hit you with his axe whirl. Or when the Archdiviner can’t hit you with his hammer bash. You can do the same thing with most bosses: when you stay at range and kite them, they bug out and stop using some/most/all attacks.

Aww it’s cute <3 Ignoring how bosses bug out when stuck in a wall and throwing a few jokes “if you range you exploit” <3.

I might have wrongly assumed that the Spider Queen bugs when near a wall/pillar, just like Alpha used to bug (don’t know, it’s been a year since we didn’t bother to try to do that) when pushed into a wall. Or Dwayna stops attacking.

So using your 3 examples we have one (spider) that youre wrong about, a second (Alpha) that has since been fixed for months, and a third (Dwayna) that is a world boss. This isn’t exactly proving your point that stacking is an exploit.

Dwayna=Simin.

Simin doesnt bug by “pushing into a wall.” You have to go out of your way to bug out Simin. So yeah, its still a bad example. The world boss was actually a better example.

RedStar.4218:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Excuse him for not making it clear to you: when you range bosses, they stop using certain attacks. Just like when you range lupicus he doesn’t kick or swipe you. Or when Ginva the butch can’t hit you with his axe whirl. Or when the Archdiviner can’t hit you with his hammer bash. You can do the same thing with most bosses: when you stay at range and kite them, they bug out and stop using some/most/all attacks.

Aww it’s cute <3 Ignoring how bosses bug out when stuck in a wall and throwing a few jokes “if you range you exploit” <3.

I might have wrongly assumed that the Spider Queen bugs when near a wall/pillar, just like Alpha used to bug (don’t know, it’s been a year since we didn’t bother to try to do that) when pushed into a wall. Or Dwayna stops attacking.

So using your 3 examples we have one (spider) that youre wrong about, a second (Alpha) that has since been fixed for months, and a third (Dwayna) that is a world boss. This isn’t exactly proving your point that stacking is an exploit.

RedStar.4218:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

RedStar.4218:

This whole stacking thing is starting to make me wonder a few things : do we all have the same definition about it ?

When you stack at a specific point so the enemies behave differently, that’s an exploit.

Did you know that when you range a boss, he will sometimes not melee you? Is ranging exploiting too?

Excuse for not making it clearer for people like you (and a few others) : When you stack at certain places, the boss stops using certain attacks. Just like when you stack on the pillar the Spider Queen won’t spit poison. Or when you end up pushing Alpha through the wall it stops attacking. You can do the same thing with Dwayna, and most bosses : when you end up pushing them through a wall/texture, they bug out at stop using some/most/all attacks.

Excuse him for not making it clear to you: when you range bosses, they stop using certain attacks. Just like when you range lupicus he doesn’t kick or swipe you. Or when Ginva the butch can’t hit you with his axe whirl. Or when the Archdiviner can’t hit you with his hammer bash. You can do the same thing with most bosses: when you stay at range and kite them, they bug out and stop using some/most/all attacks.

Remember, the devs designed all the dungeons to be played in disorganized groups of completely random builds with no coordination who run around like chickens with their heads cut off range-kiting bosses to death. that’s a direct quote from the manifesto, in case anyone asks.

It’s politics. Obal is a jerk and doesn’t want me in the video runs because he hates me. So I told everyone else not to help him. It’s pure DnT backstabbing inter office game of thrones stuff.

klemen.8439:

To make bosses challanging, the trick is not by making insane damage attacks but to make attacks that you have to survive by harmonizing with others (aka. healer-tank).

Not really. There is nothing inherently skill-based about having to “tank and heal” damage. This is an active combat game. They can make bosses challenging by encouraging active defense and twitch skills.

The Archdiviner in fractals is a great example of this. Can’t dodge a telegraphed (but still quick) hammer bash? You die. Can’t react to him switching targets and hitting you with an auto attack in time? You die. Try to stack in a corner and burst him down without dodging? You die. There is a good reason why this boss and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Dredge Power Suit are the best bosses in fractals.

Persisting Flames = 1 more lava font tick very worth.. Blasting staff is only useful in TA for the tree at the end, so 10% dps for the rest of the dungeon is hardly worth trading for possible 1 second faster tree kill.

Matisse.9356:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Matisse.9356:

Besides hurting the economy,

This is an opinion masquerading as a fact. Please describe, in precise economic terminology, how someone selling a dungeon path hurts the game economy. And I mean hurt as in cause actual damage not “increase the gold supply by .000000001% which leads to inflation of .0000001%.”

First off, I would appreciate if you didn’t take quotes out of context.
Second, I gladly explain it to you: If someone is increasing the gold in circulation by means of EXPLOITING paths to gain fast gold, it is hurting the economy as this is gold not intended to be added in this way.

You do not know how much the gold supply by means of EXPLOITED path selling increases the overall economy, so your statement could be completely inaccurate – politely put.

Saying money gathered by EXPLOITING is not hurting the economy because it is a small amount is a rather strange argument. Bad money hurts in real life too, no matter how small the overall amount might be. As you have quite some thought-out posts in this forum, I doubt that you fail to understand this.

I have put the content I am referring to in block letters, as I am not sure you read my first post in detail but rather felt the need to shoot from the hip.

You seem to think I am pro-AC exploiting. I am not. I wish Anet would make fixing it a top priority.

But I took issue with your statement, because it is a factually incorrect statement. Being incredibly generous, AC selling adds something like 150g to the game economy in a single day. That is astoundingly insignificant. That is less gold then the frostgorge champ farm on a single server produces in 10 minutes. So even being an EXPLOIT, and even being EVIL and WRONG, it is so insignificant that it doesn’t hurt the economy in any measurable way. To put it in perspective, the Skyhammer pvp glory farm introduced tens of thousands of gold into the economy once the new vendor was created, and in comparison to that ACTUAL damage done, AC exploiting pales in comparison.

Matisse.9356:

Besides hurting the economy,

This is an opinion masquerading as a fact. Please describe, in precise economic terminology, how someone selling a dungeon path hurts the game economy. And I mean hurt as in cause actual damage not “increase the gold supply by .000000001% which leads to inflation of .0000001%.”

I assure you Guang only plays with terrible pugs.

Warlord.9074:

I love these paper warriors. I’ve been playing this game a lot longer to know precision next to healing power is one of the worst scaling stats in GW2. You whole argument is I will lose. 134 power and gain 6 crit chance if I do it my way lol. Well if we didn’t do it your way and used sigil of perception instead of blood lust we would have more crit chance than you without the loss of 134 power.

So your build would have less crit chance and um less power too untill you built up 25 stacks of blood lust in which case you would have less crit chance and 116 more power. But according to you crit chance is better than power. So no one will notice your 100 more power but since our crit chance is higher our build is better.

Listen I don’t really give a crap who this nike guy is I don’t have time to have no life 10 legendarys and make spread sheets all the time for and online game, then argue over 1 stat point is better or worst, or why the game should be played this way and not another way.

But you are here arguing, so clearly you do have the time.

Regardless, I provided more than sufficient math and charts to support my position, and it’s accurate. You have no dispute for that mathematically, so I guess I win. Though upon reflection, I suppose I won a long time ago when you said dps builds require a tank to be successful in high level fractals.

Also who is this “our” you refer to? Are you representing a guild, or using the royal we?

edit: I’m not the self-proclaimed best player in the game. And also, your Perception stacking plan is kittened for a variety of reasons. Foremost, which build has higher dps in places where you can’t build up stacks efficiently? Bet you haven’t considered that.

If you want more crit chance the best ways in the game are here. Because its 21 points per 1 point of crit chance making this the 2nd worst scaling stat in the game next to healing power. There are far better ways to get more precision than from gear.
ORBs,
Sigil of perception ( this is the big one (250 Precision)
Food Maint oil and Precision food.
Sigil of accuracy 5% = to 105 Precsion
Signets 180
Banners. 170
Traits. Ranger spotter 150, Deep strike 40 per signet.

Orbs? Sorry bro. People use scholar runes in real builds.
Perception sigil is horrible but i’ve explained that in other places. It prevents you from using Precision food being the most important factor. Second most important is that your dps blows in any instance where you can’t build up stacks, especially being fractals.
Precision food. You’re contradicting yourself. My build uses Precision food. Tell me what your kooky Perception stack build gains by using Precision food.
Maintenance Oil: No one uses these, people use slayer pots.
Signets: already used in both builds
Banners: already used in both builds
Spotter: If I have 25 Bloodlust stacks and a Ranger in my party, my dps goes up. If you have 25 perception stacks and ranger in the party, your dps does not. Good plan.
Deep Strike? What trait do you get rid of? Rending Strikes and FGS are dps increases far beyond Deep Strike. Guess you haven’t thought that through.

Lastly don’t ever tell me that I need to Learn to Play especially a warrior. I bought this game during beta 2 and my 1st character was a warrior that I pretty much excursively played until now after having taken 2 short breaks from he game, Ive been here from day 1.

Oh I’m sorry. Sorry for hurting your feels, I’m sure you’re a great player. I don’t have any proof, but I’ll take your word for it.

Destram.8651:

Warlord you realize you’re arguing with the guy who does in depth spreadsheets after almost every patch, right? I’m pretty sure he knows exactly what he’s talking about.

I don’t think anybody should trust anybody just based on who they are, even myself. But I have offered the math behind that particular question on multiple occasions and I included the basic formula in this thread so he can check it for himself.

From a theorycraft perspective, the reason why adding precision at the expense of power works at a certain point is that once you are at around 3500 Power (with Might and Banner of Strength) and 150% crit damage (with base 50% and banner of Discipline) the opportunity cost of failing to crit is so high that over the long term on average you are best off sacrificing some power in order to ensure you crit more often.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2953/chtr.png

The meta warrior (with full zerk, no assassins) build has 159% crit damage, and 3759 Power with banner, might and bloodlust. Referencing that chart, you’ll see the “optimal” crit chance is far in excess of 95%. In fact it was at 95% way back at 3300 power. So with 3759 Power the optimal crit chance is 100%. But this build has 88% crit chance. So trading 134 Power (3 Assassins armor + infusions or some other combination to get you there) for 6% chance to crit puts you to 94%. Add 5% moe for +100 Precision food and you’re at 99%, You still are far in excess of the Power/critdmg threshold to make 100% crit chance ideal.

So thats that.

Warlord.9074:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Warlord.9074:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What’s a tank in GW2?

And yea, most builds work best when you synergize with your teammates. Have any more shocking revelations?

I started to reply to you specifically when your argument was basically LTP. What is a tank in GW2? Mobs generally aggro the player who has the most toughness in the party. And since generally that is not you it will be someone else. Most builds do synergize with the team but while the 30/25/0/0/15 build does produce the best warrior DPS. Other than perhaps a banner or fgj this build brings nothing to synergize with the team other than DPS. So basicaaly this build in very hard content needs to be supported by other players who have to take a less DD build in order to support you so you can put out big numbers lol. I never questioned that the build does not do DPS I questioned how sustainable it is with pug groups or bad group comps, or in a party where everyone runs a as selfish build as this one in difficult content. And COF P3 is not difficult content.

Well it is an LTP issue, sorry to burst your bubble. Every build needs to support each other to maximize efficiency. The solution to bad groups or low dps is not to lower your dps further by going tanky yourself or using bad traits.

Hate to burst my bubble? Only person in here that is in some kinda bubble is you mate. Your only argument for why you are right is others just need to learn to play and that you don’t need to debate the points I am making because I just don’t know how to play. That sounds like a bubble to me.

You’re the one who thinks people ‘tank’ in high level fractals. I don’t live in that bubble.

I watched your video btw. You started to lose me after telling me that to use assassins for and your rationalization for that is it gives you a 1% increase of damage like that you can really measure a 1 damage increase that is not a damage increase its a 3% chance to do more damage while doing slightly less damage 97% of the time.

EP=(Power*(1+(CritChance*CritDamage)))*DamageModifiers

That’s a formula you should look into before you make such a comment. You clearly don’t have much of a clue.

Then about how we do this because Blood lust a 250 power increase which equates to about 4-5% Damage boost if you attack is around 3800 which it most likely is with might. Would be better than lets say sigil of force which would be a static 5% that doesn’t need to be built with stacks. Never mind the fact that by choosing assassins and the infusions you used you lost 250 power in the process probably and all of the time and money that you had spent was for 5 extra crit chance that amounts to more DPS according to you.

It’s 134 Power, and it is higher DPS. Please learn math. Also, if you watched the video you see I switch to DPS sigils after building up stacks. Everyone who cares about min/maxing does this.

I like the guide that you made for people that don’t know what to do its very good. I probably would of never went into that much detail but um your traits are nice but your gear isn’t as optimum as you think it is and as soon as the nerf comes it will be even worst.

The gear is optimal in the current meta. You are correct, after the Ferocity nerf assassins gear will be worse, but I already knew that and made a video on my channel explaining it, and telling people not to craft assassins gear now. And I believe I added a note inside my warrior video that says the same thing.

Don’t be all mad at me because I offended you by saying “it’s an L2P issue” when it is. If you aren’t comfortable with meta builds in fractals you should practice more, I don’t know what else to say to help you.

Warlord.9074:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What’s a tank in GW2?

And yea, most builds work best when you synergize with your teammates. Have any more shocking revelations?

I started to reply to you specifically when your argument was basically LTP. What is a tank in GW2? Mobs generally aggro the player who has the most toughness in the party. And since generally that is not you it will be someone else. Most builds do synergize with the team but while the 30/25/0/0/15 build does produce the best warrior DPS. Other than perhaps a banner or fgj this build brings nothing to synergize with the team other than DPS. So basicaaly this build in very hard content needs to be supported by other players who have to take a less DD build in order to support you so you can put out big numbers lol. I never questioned that the build does not do DPS I questioned how sustainable it is with pug groups or bad group comps, or in a party where everyone runs a as selfish build as this one in difficult content. And COF P3 is not difficult content.

Well it is an LTP issue, sorry to burst your bubble. Every build needs to support each other to maximize efficiency. The solution to bad groups or low dps is not to lower your dps further by going tanky yourself or using bad traits.

What’s a tank in GW2?

And yea, most builds work best when you synergize with your teammates. Have any more shocking revelations?

I used that build at fotm 79, it works very well. If you feel its too squishy for 40+ that is 100% an l2p issue.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

What is not subjective, however, is the literal interpretation of the phrase. What was the intention of the development team when they designed the content or rather how was the game designed to be played? The answer should be obvious; they explicitly developed Guild Wars 2 to have truly mobile combat as one of its defining features. Even dodging is a form of mobility. The stack style contradicts intended game design by taking advantage of minute, unintended flaws in the system to turn mobile combat into stationary and typically easier combat.

First, you don’t know what their intentions were unless you are a developer. You should take a minute to consider that you don’t have the level of omniscience you think you do, and consequently, your conclusions might be wrong.

Secondly, the fact that you think that all you have to do is stack in a ball, never dodge and win every encounter shows that you aren’t even familiar with the very basics of the object of your contempt. When a person says, “i hate mexican food, especially the sushi” that person sounds really ignorant. Don’t be that person.