Guild Wars 2

It could just be variance, as I had great difficulty testing things like that without steady weapons in the past. I think further testing is required but I wouldn’t be shocked.

Best way to test: Mesmer Feedback on lupicus. Lupi’s paws are either steady weapons or very close to steady weapons, and most of the crits will crit for the same (or almost identical) amounts. When we’re talking about 30k crits it will be noticeable if an extra 10% damage is in effect. And the feedback should be easy to control for since mantras will be the same and you can make sure you dont have the 3% per illusion trait up.

I would love it if the champion mobs in Frostgorge scaled up enough to wipe the zergs with AOE and DOTs. Same for Queensdale and Malchors. The way champions were meant to be fought.

A while back someone in this forum made a “Kill All Monsters” guild that was about this very same thing. Nobody joined and the guild died of inactivity.

What happens is a lot of carebears talk a good game about wanting no stacking, anything goes runs but when faced with the reality of a 1 hour AC path 1, they don’t show up. So really think about what you are asking for, and if you are really committed to the concept enough to keep such a guild alive.

Effective Power is very easy to calculate, but it has limitations. The primary limitations is that it will only give you meaningful comparisons for the same profession with the same weaponsets using the same rotation. This sounds more limiting than it is. The best use of it is to quickly see the effect changing a runeset or gear prefix for a piece of gear.

I prefer it over dps calculations because for the most part players pick professions for their party comps based on non-dps factors, and dps is only relevent to the discussion within the profession and effective power is useful for comparing, say, one axe warrior build to another.

The EP formula someone posted earlier is overly complicated and a bit intimidating, the one I use is a bit more user friendly…

EP = (Power*(1+(CritChance*CritDmg)))*DmgMods

Crit chance, Crit damage should be expressed as decimals. 75% chance to crit = .75.

Notes:

There is (for now!) a base 50% critical damage modifier. So if your hero panel says your crit damage is 100%, it’s actually 150% and should be expressed as 1.5.

Damage modifiers are combined multiplicatively. If you have two modifiers of 10% each, you do not just put “1.2” in the damage modifiers, it has to be “1.1*1.1”. The difference seems small, but once you account for Runes, Sigils, Traits, Frost Spirit, Potions, Vulnerability there are a lot of them and your calculations could wind up quite different.

Also, in the dungeon community, unlike the WvW community, we tend to assume certain party-wide buffs as a given in our calculations. The WvWers usually look at solo numbers. Dungeoneers typically assume both warrior banners, 25 Might stacks, and 25 Vuln stacks as a given, along with max food and dungeon potions. Some of the things, like Vuln and slayer potions are probably safe to ignore since they cancel out, but the other buffs are essential.

There is a ratio of Power to Crit Chance to Crit damage that exists which lets you know whether your build would benefit more from adding Power or adding Precision. As a result of assuming banners and 25 Might, we have so much Power and crit damage in most builds that the only limit to how much Precision we want is the 100% hard cap. This is why a lot of builds in the current meta utilize 3 pieces of assassins gear to exchange 64 Power for 64 Precision since at that level of Power (3500+) adding more precision is worth more than Power.

Anyway, good luck with your theorycraft.

Meta was already shifting to 20/25/0/0/25 for non-hammer guardians, this pretty much makes it official.

How ya haters feel, ya hatin’ didn’t work.

Weth is a lot better than I am. So is Goku, Crigger and a bunch of others.

Brando.1374:

PVE required the “skill” of memorization.
Memorize the skills you need to dodge
Memorize where you need to stack to “bug” the boss into not attacking as often
Memorize when you need to skip “trash”

with your guys elite skill level you should not have any issue with a little 10% nerf.

Don’t worry we’ll be fine. I’m sure casual WvW’ers like yourself will struggle mightily.

I find playing the different classes to be different enough from each other from a playstyle perspective to be meaningful.

Thanks for backing me up. As I said in another thread its not a gear issue, it’s that given enough time even bad players in zerker can farm the old dungeons.

You certainly helped prove that point for me.

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Realize there is no problem with the game other than stale end game content so nothing needs to be changed except development priorities and it’s even more simple.

Ozzrel.9825:

Nah, he just doesn’t know the difference between “dps” and “the biggest number that pops on screen”.

He can use the 30/25 build and have both.

Zepher.7803:

and also when you say Zerker what class are you talking about because as a main Guardian going Zerker is no way efficient and it’s pretty laughable because of way those traits work.\

If you don’t even know the very most basics about this game, could you please refrain from cluttering up the thread?

Mixchimmer.7230:

I like the idea of roles because it is my opinion that when every single role is DPS, it’s boring.

Every character in a dungeon is [DPS+ _. DPS+Banners. DPS+Reflects. DPS+Stealth.

Lets look at it like a math problem. If each side of the equation is dps, we can cancel it out and then you have the roles: Banners/Offensive support, Reflects, Stealth, Defensive Boons etc.

I’ve said it until I’m blue in the face: your traits, class and weapons determine your playstyle. Your gear is simply a reflection of how much damage you intend to have to soak up.

TL;DR: Everyone’s role is dps, regardless of gear. Everyone has to wack on the boss. The actual playstyle is determined by non-gear factors.

As an aside, not regarding your post directly… I see people saying “I don’t want dps to be my playstyle I want a more tanky playstyle.” Do you not understand what this means? This literally means, “I don’t want to contribute my 1/5th of the team dps, and I’d rather not be bothered to dodge most attacks.” When you realize that is what you’re saying, you can imagine a little bit why the reaction from some people is less than positive.

Atse, if zerker doesn’t require skill perhaps you can post a video showing how brainless and easy it is to melee a few of the fractal bosses at 49, like Mossman or Archdiviner. Surely, since it’s so easy, you could do that in full zerker no problem.

phys.7689:

the problem is that the stats system isnt based around playstyles, but more, as you said by how much dmg you can avoid.

best CC gear? beserkers, support gear? berserkers or givers depending on if your support is boon heavy, and needs longer durations to be effective. even tanks are sometimes better off in berserker

also, AI is poor.

AI is a content problem.

And I don’t see the concept of playstyle and gear being separate as a problem at all. Traits determine your playstyle, gear determines you offense/defense spectrum. It could easily be argued the opposite, which many want, is worse. Let’s say you take “tanky” traits. Why would you want to be locked in to tanky gear? If you take supporty traits why would you want to be locked in to supporty gear?

If you value variety and open ended character creation you would actually prefer the current system. Linking gear to playstyle does nothing more than pidgeon hole builds and push us closer to a classic trinity.

Proven.2854:

But as it is the current meta for PvE is degenerative.

This is one of those statements that should require massive amounts of evidence before people accept it, but clearly you take it as somehow self-evident.

The current meta for PVE is working perfectly. Give a complete noob a set of zerker gear and send him into Arah p1 for the first time. See if he can even make it to the champ entities. Give him full tank gear, he might actually make it. The entire concept, as I have described elsewhere, is that in PvE you take as much defensive gear as you need to survive… and no more. This system is working exactly as intended.

The problem is that the content is old and on farm. There are good tactics for every dungeon and fractal and even bad players have done the content enough that they don’t need the tanky gear anymore. This isn’t because Zerker gear is magically turning them into good players. It’s because even bad players can learn content given a long enough amount of time.

If an xpac dropped tomorrow, with 5 new dungeons/elite zones with many bosses that had good and unique lupicus style mechanics, all the bad players who currently get away with zerker would go back to faceplanting regularly and nobody would argue that Zerker is too powerful.

It really does bother me that people are treating this as a gear problem when it’s so obviously a content problem. It really does bother me that the devs are treating it as a gear problem, most likely because it’s easier for them to deal with a gear problem and not a content problem.

If there is any problem now, its that there is a barrier of entry for new players who are expected to run zerker in pugs but haven’t had the year+ of time to learn the encounters. Those players do need time to learn and they should be using tanky gear if needed but they are put off because they are late to the game. If they were joining the game right at the release of a new xpac as I described it would be much less of a problem.

But again, that points to a content problem.

Remember Anet, players prefer buffs to weak things than nerfs to strong things. Choose carefully before you decide to destroy the community.

RIP Assassins gear. 2013-2013.

Make necro axe attack in a conal way (like a breath weapon, or the ele dagger fire auto) up to it’s current range, or perhaps a bit less less.

Gokil.2543:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

In Guild Wars 2, the functionality of your build is determined by traits. You can select supporty traits, dps oriented traits or personal sustainability oriented traits. You traits, along with weapon choice and utility skills, determine your playstyle. This is the beginning and the end of playstyle determination.

This is only partially true. Only defensive traits that don’t scale with defensive stats can define your playstyle exclusively through traits (reflects, aegis, blinds, vigor). It is completely and utterly pointless to run a healway guardian, or a 0/10/0/30/30 elementalist without a good baseline of toughness to make the hp/sec from trait choices worthwhile. Generally, sustainable builds are equally defined by traits and gear alike. I play a lot of WvW and the concept of a glass cannon healway guardian or a full bunker axe/gs warrior is absurd.

In theory it sounds nice to substitute all that is defensive but not vitality or toughness into one big category of ‘active defenses’. Although that is not always the case.

As for rampagers, it serves a purpose on innately tanky condi specs (read: necros), who want to squeeze in some extra damage when they feel they have too much tankyness when fully geared in either rabid or carrion.

There are a lot of stat combinations that don’t make sense on their own, but serve a purpose when tailoring a build in an environment where it is actually necessary to do so (read: not in pve).

Also, what kind of change did you have in mind? Doubling the condition damage on rampagers? Surely you understand it doesn’t work that way, since the net amount of stats needs to be balanced.

Who said defensive traits and berserker gear was good in wvw? Or a logical choice? If you want a defensive heal-way playstyle you take heal-way traits. If you’re doing WvW where there is a lot of unavoidable damage you would pick defensive gear. If you’re running the same trait set up in a pve dungeon you would use berserker if you felt confident in your dodges. Was I unclear in my description of the character building process?

The point is, the traits you choose will inform you as to the playstyle you should have. The gear you choose is simply an indication of how much damage you believe you will or won’t receive.

And what I had in mind was making Condition Damage the main stat. But others have suggested Power as the main stat, and that seems to be an improvement too.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zerker gear isn’t an issue. It never was. What is an issue is that nothing but zerker has any importance in PvE. If you’re not running Zerker/Assassin’s, you’re not needed. You blew a large investment into mostly worthless stats.

Ah! Someone from that camp finally admitted it. This whole thing is about making WvWers who spent a bunch on ascended sentinels gear not have to respec for dungeons and still feel powerful. I suggested this was possibly the motivation before and nobody on that side of the debate would agree, but you finally did, thanks.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

You seem to be considering yourself in the list of “dont dodge like gods” then. Because if you were in the list of “dodge like gods” you are unaffected, what’s your problem?

How about the part where he suggested nerfing his dps by 50%. That sounds like something doesn’t leave him “unaffected.” Face it, Kyubi is making dumb suggestions to solve a non-existent problem. Coming up with bad answers to fake problems is pretty shameful.

If you are indeed in the “dont dodge like gods” list, I am sorry to say that maybe it is time you up your game, or maybe Arenanet should up the game for you. Or swap gear to something else that will be at your skill level.

He is in [rT] so it’s a safe assumption to make that he is in the 1% of top dodgers in the game.

People complain that they dont want to run Zerker because everyone runs the same thing.

People want all gear to more or less complete content in the same time, doing the same thing.

…

So the “solution” to the “problem” of a lack of variety is to make everything more similar.

…

I’m not worried at all about the devs implementing your silly ideas, because they are smart people who understand the game and would never do anything so ridiculously dumb.

In a few sentences, I described the character building process for this game. By describing that process, I have completely countered and eliminated 100% of the “nerf zerker” arguments that appear to be based on a drastic misunderstanding of the nature of the game design and character building process.

Your build is your weapons, utility skills and your traits.
Your gear is simply a reflection of how much damage you anticipate taking during whatever content you’re running.
Therefore Zerker gear does not “nullify” any “variety” or any “builds.” Builds are independent of gear, you can run a dps build in Soldier’s gear or a support build in Zerker gear.
If Zerker is optimal for PVE content that is because of players anticipating that they will not take significant damage during the PVE content and not some feature of Zerker.

Your build is your weapons, utility skills and your traits.
Your gear is simply a reflection of how much damage you anticipate taking during whatever content you’re running.
Therefore Zerker gear does not “nullify” any “variety” or any “builds.” Builds are independent of gear, you can run a dps build in Soldier’s gear or a support build in Zerker gear.
If Zerker is optimal for PVE content that is because of players anticipating that they will not take significant damage during the PVE content and not some feature of Zerker.

Your build is your weapons, utility skills and your traits.

Your gear is simply a reflection of how much damage you anticipate taking during whatever content you’re running.

Therefore Zerker gear does not “nullify” any “variety” or any “builds.” Builds are independent of gear, you can run a dps build in Soldier’s gear or a support build in Zerker gear.

If Zerker is optimal for PVE content that is because of players anticipating that they will not take significant damage during the PVE content and not some feature of Zerker.

Your build is your weapons, utility skills and your traits.

Your gear is simply a reflection of how much damage you anticipate taking during whatever content you’re running.

Therefore Zerker gear does not “nullify” any “variety” or any “builds.” Builds are independent of gear, you can run a dps build in Soldier’s gear or a support build in Zerker gear.

If Zerker is optimal for PVE content that is because of players anticipating that they will not take significant damage during the PVE content and not some feature of Zerker.

#FixRampager2014

Thanks for the kind words, hopefully this serious balance issue gets addressed prior to some of the silly trivial ones taking up the front page of this forum.

#FixRampager2014

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ANet has actually stated several times that they want a “new” trinity of “support, control, and damage.” The difference is that, unlike in other MMO’s, these roles are not restricted to particular classes. Any character can fulfill any of these roles, or even combine them (though specialization yields better results). That is how the game was intended and where the whole “play how you want” philosophy comes from.

This is completely incorrect. Anet said they wanted all characters to do all things at the same time, and NOT specialize. Specialization does NOT yield, nor did anet intend it to yield, superior results. Distributed share of responsibilities and superior coordination thereof yields superior results, as it was intended.

And again, “roles” are determined by weapons, skills, and most importantly, traits. The gear you choose has nothing to do with your “role” and everything to do with how much damage you anticipate taking during whatever game type you plan to do.

The riders make the race. There are some good PvPers in gw2 esports scene (like ten of them) and within themselves there might be something resembling competition. There are more and better players in GW2 speed clear scene than there are in GW2 esports scene.

Proven.2854:

The envisioned scenario is a combination of players geared for DPS, Control, and Support being the optimal group for clearing dungeons.

I’ve quoted your mistake for you. This is not the scenario anet envisioned when designing a no trinity game. This is not the scenario I envisioned when I was told this is a no trinity game.

This is the scenario envisioned by people who seem want to play some other game, but for some reason stick with this one.

I guess I’ll say it for the third time in this thread… every character has to dps, control and support. That is what anet promised when they said “no trinity.” This is what they delivered.

I suppose I’ll repeat something else too….

Traits and skills determine playstyle (aka dps, support, control)

Gear determines offensive vs defense.

People clamoring for more useful support and control value in pve should be talking about a TRAIT and UTILITY SKILL rebalance, not a gearing change

Not sure your point. The riders make the race. PvE in gw2 is more competitive than the PvP. Sorry to tell you, there are more and better PvE guilds in gw2 than PvP, so it’s as simple as that. If you enjoy playing GW2 and you are a gamer who enjoys competition, you play PvE.

As far as Dota2 goes, DnT is pretty good at that as well

Writetyper.1985:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

a t s e.9614:

I like how ignorant people say you win pvp if you run a cheese build . Do you really think you are the only one with that precious build ? You would get stomped in less than a second no matter what build you have. As I said if it so easy join paid tournaments, and make gold\ irl money instead of just farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

And if you really have that powerful build that stomps everybody and you are the only one who is using this ultnmate build , can you share it with me ?

You realize that in GW1 gvg scene at it’s height, the top 200 guilds on the ladder were highly competitive, right? The same skill, effort and coordination it took to get top 150 guild (not players, guild) in GW1 would get you top 20 (players) in GW2. That is to say, if the top PVP guilds from GW1 took this game seriously (Evil, WM, iQ, Rawr, Te, PrP and so on) all the current super good pvp teams would look like jokes.

Watch some videos of Mistrel Edge in GvG tournaments playing on the ice map with their split build. You think those players would have any trouble dismantling the simplistic 5v5 splits in tpvp? Lolz

Definitely! One time I ran CoE with the legendary team Na’Vi, the insane skill with which Dendi pressed 4 while holding a firey greatsword was breathtaking to behold.

http://youtu.be/GS-bmXJM2bg

Mistrel Edge dismantling someone using complicated split tactics in a tournament final.

After watching that, you shouldn’t have to ask why I don’t take the pvp in this game seriously.

In Guild Wars 2, the functionality of your build is determined by traits. You can select supporty traits, dps oriented traits or personal sustainability oriented traits. You traits, along with weapon choice and utility skills, determine your playstyle. This is the beginning and the end of playstyle determination.

Gear, on the other hand, determines where you fall on the offense vs. defense spectrum. On the extreme defensive end you have Sentinels, Dire, Clerics. On the extreme offensive, you have Berserker, Assassins, Rampagers. The gear you choose is determined by the content you intend to use it for. In a World vs World Zerg, with lots of unavoidable damage, an extremely defensive setup is arguably optimal. In a PvE dungeon that you have extensive experience with, a full offensive setup is arguably optimal.

By stating these facts, I intend to demonstrate that gearing does not determine your playstyle or the functionality of your build. Gearing is simply the choice you make based on how much damage you believe you will endure for the content you are choosing to partake in. This is why the notion of being upset with the dominance of Berserker gear in PvE is as ridiculous as being upset with the dominance of Sentinels gear in Zerg v Zerg. Neither gear type changes how your build plays, nor should it: again, gearing is simply your estimation of how much defense you believe you will need to handle the damage you estimate you will take.

So, with that issue settled definitively, we can move on to an actual balance problem. Rampager’s gear makes all the same defense sacrifices as Berserker or Assassins, but there is no spec in the game utilizing Rampagers gear that can achieve the same offensive ability as Berserker/Assassins. Thus, Rampagers is grossly out of balance with its compatriots. If Anet is considering any balance changes regarding the PvE (or small scale WvW/PvP) meta, its primary focus ought to be fixing the Rampager set so that it is on par with Berserker/Assassins.

Since Rampager gear is the only non-trivial balance issue involving gearing in Guild Wars 2, this should be anet’s only concern when considering making any changes regarding the meta.

Thanks for reading.

#FixRampager2014

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Still waiting to hear what the “problem” is. In a good player’s hands, pve dps builds are objectively superior.

SO WHAT? Please explain why and how this is a “problem” that requires “fixing.”

This is a fine example of the wrong line of thinking I was talking about. You can see here that the subject isn’t about the gear, but about “good players”. The zerker issue exists outside of player skill, but the inability to look past player skill has left Nike blinded.

This failure in logic follows through nearly every thread on the zerker issue, this one included. A nice shorthand for recognizing this error is to look at a few key phrases:

“What they want”
“They use this as”
“Good player”
“What you are doing”
“What they say”

and such. This is ultimately an act of hostility and not reasoning. As such it accomplishes nothing.

It is my advice to not respond to these kinds of comments. Yes, I realize the irony of this post, but I do need an example.

Ah, some unsolicited amateur psychoanalysis, but no answer to my question. I figured I wouldn’t get a legitimate response, but it was worth asking.

Your whole analysis is flawed because you start with the presumption there is a “problem” without justifying that statement, and accept it as fait accompli. As I have demonstrated in other threads on the same, tired topic, it is entirely reasonable to conclude exactly the opposite: that the system of trading away defense for offense as you become more comfortable with content is working exactly as intended. When you start with that as your pretense, you will conclude that the only gear set in the game with a true balance problem is Rampagers, since it trades away all its defense but does not equal Berserker/Assassins in dps.

#FixRampager2014

a t s e.9614:

I like how ignorant people say you win pvp if you run a cheese build . Do you really think you are the only one with that precious build ? You would get stomped in less than a second no matter what build you have. As I said if it so easy join paid tournaments, and make gold\ irl money instead of just farming dungeon paths for ultra bad rewards.

And if you really have that powerful build that stomps everybody and you are the only one who is using this ultnmate build , can you share it with me ?

You realize that in GW1 gvg scene at it’s height, the top 200 guilds on the ladder were highly competitive, right? The same skill, effort and coordination it took to get top 150 guild (not players, guild) in GW1 would get you top 20 (players) in GW2. That is to say, if the top PVP guilds from GW1 took this game seriously (Evil, WM, iQ, Rawr, Te, PrP and so on) all the current super good pvp teams would look like jokes.

Watch some videos of Mistrel Edge in GvG tournaments playing on the ice map with their split build. You think those players would have any trouble dismantling the simplistic 5v5 splits in tpvp? Lolz

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

DnT has people in the top 50 of team q and solo q. What more do you want from us?

Xia.3485:

But then, between choosing a 15 minute run or an hour one, which would you choose? That’s what needs to be addressed. There should be more than one way to skin a cat.

If you don’t have enough skill to wear the gear to do it in 15 minutes and all you would do is die over and over and over…. I would take the hour run in tankier gear.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What you, and the other zerkernerfers want is a trinity system where any class can fulfill any of the trinity roles but that is not the game that Anet promise and not the game Anet delivered.

Actually we want a PvE system where control and support have some value.

They do already. Try speed running a dungeon with no CC, no reflects, no group buffing, no group debuffing. It wouldn’t work exceptionally well. Sounds like you don’t understand the concept.

Right now there is no reason to spec into more support or control, or gear for support or control.

How do you gear for control? Every stat in the game, with the exception of Healing Power and Boon Duration, are on a spectrum of offense and defense. You couldn’t “gear for control” if you wanted to.

If you go full zerker, and all party members are full zerker, everything melts before it can pose a threat. That is not interesting gameplay.

That really isn’t true. There are many, many encounters where you have to dodge properly or else your full zerker party wipes. I would say most boss encounters are like that, actually.

And you know what enables zerker parties to dps so efficiently? Here is a hint: the overwhelming control and support that a good build provides which you don’t believe exists.

I don’t want the berserker gearset to be nerfed. I want the mob AI to be less dumb and know how to counter, cleanse and walk out of AoE fields.

Fine by me.

Being a glass cannon should be a risk vs rewards decision. Right now being in a group of glass cannons yields more rewards (faster runs) and less risk (boss dies before it can kill). That’s the only problem with the zerker meta.

I thought bad zerkers were everywhere and dead dps is no dps? The stereotypical “bad zerker” is the evidence that there IS a risk/reward function happening. The difference is all the “good zerkers” are collecting the reward, and people don’t see to like that.

P.S. I always run full zerker mesmer. Sw/Fo Sw/Sw with reflection .. its the only real way to play in PvE and that’s a kitten shame.

If you didn’t care about control and support, you would use Sword/Sword, Sword/Pistol, you would run 20/30/0/0/20 with 4 Mantras and you would do substantially more dps. You realize you just put your foot in your mouth, right?

edit: to be more clear, you probably run a build with 20+ in Inspiration, and you use a low DPS weapon, Focus. This is you balancing the risk/reward. You realized, rightly so, that the team is better when you sacrifice some personal dps in order to CONTROL and SUPPORT your party. Just because you don’t need to wear Clerics gear to do it doesn’t mean you didn’t do it, and it doesn’t mean you didn’t make a sacrifice.

edit#2

And I think that lays some of the problems. I mentioned above and I’ll say again. Right now reflect/evade/aegis etc are pretty much independent from stats. Yes, boon duration affect to some degree but not game changing. Trait passive isn’t that important either. Result in any build can bring those “supports” without sacrificing much stats.

Not true. Mesmers waste 20 trait points in a non-dps line in order to get the necessary support. Guardians put a minimum of 10 points into a non-dps traitline to get the necessary support, usually 20+ for even more.

Just because they don’t gear for control or support, does not mean they are not sacrificing a lot of DPS to acquire it.

I thought it was funny when someone said warriors have better dps in pve than light armor classes. Considering Mesmers and Eles out DPS warriors by quite a bit when people say stuff like that, I know I’m not dealing with an informed person.

Finnway.2183:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Still waiting to hear what the “problem” is. In a good player’s hands, pve dps builds are objectively superior.

SO WHAT? Please explain why and how this is a “problem” that requires “fixing.”

It’s not how the game was advertised. We were told “any class can play any role” and right now that is ludicrous because DPS builds are far superior to anything else.

100% wrong. You are misquoting and misremembering. The promise was “no trinity, no dedicated roles, all classes will provide dps, healing, support, cc”

This does not mean “anything goes all classes can fulfill any role.” It means there are no roles and all characters are expected to DPS (zerker meta: check), Support (zerker meta: check), CC (zerker meta: check), and heal (zerker meta: check).

What you, and the other zerkernerfers want is a trinity system where any class can fulfill any of the trinity roles but that is not the game that Anet promise and not the game Anet delivered.

I consider this post of mine to have effectively put this debate to bed. Mods can feel free to sticky my post and close the thread.

Still waiting to hear what the “problem” is. In a good player’s hands, pve dps builds are objectively superior.

SO WHAT? Please explain why and how this is a “problem” that requires “fixing.”

People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.

What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.

I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.

I feel like there are a lot of ignorant people posting in this thread…

…Oh wait, its just one guy posting a lot.

Sanderinoa.8065:

What does that even mean

Hopefully it means Weakness becomes like Vuln but for condition damage.

And hopefully it means that is the ONLY thing they change. Go go skale venom + grenade engineer new meta.

I would be embarrassed to admit I was in favor of the potential changes, simply because it would reveal to everyone that I was bad at the game and don’t know how to dodge. I guess some people have very little shame.

Also, no matter what happens, there will still be a best way to clear dungeons. And guess what: scrubs won’t be any better at that way either. What does that mean? It means you will still get kicked from group, and your crap builds will still not be looked for on the LFG. I feel like a lot of bad players feel like whatever this change will be is going to usher in a golden age of “anything goes” and every player in the game will be on exactly equal footing. Sorry to tell you: no matter what happens bad will still be bad. There will be a meta. It might be Rabid, it might be Rampager, it might be Zerker still. And regardless, there is no reason to believe if you hate the meta now you’ll like the next one at all.