This is yet another example of why base damage modifier traits are so good.
Assuming banner of disc, sig of fury, scholar runes and 14 might stacks for 30/25 and 16 might stacks for 30/10…
30/10 with bloodlust: 12224
30/10 with percept: 11731
30/25 (deep strike) with bloodlust: 12213
30/25 (deep strike) with percept: 11911
Pretty much imperceptible. Let’s try now with 25 stacks of Might…
30/10 with BL: 14,478
30/25 with BL: 13,699
This is not what I expected before I crunched the numbers, but it makes sense that the higher power scales with the higher crit damage and higher chance to crit. So when solo the Deep Strike covers the DPS difference nicely, but in a group the extra Might stacks make the cost of failing to crit too high and the 3-4% difference in crit chance and 15% crit damage matters a ton more. I already knew it, but it is interesting how Perception (in a 30/0 build) is about 1% better than bloodlust, but how in 30/10 or 30/25 with DS the Bloodlust is back on top.
Contrary to popular belief; rT is actually pretty split between who is happy to do varying levels of exploits, and who is not willing to do any (in a speed run scenario). Many of our best players are much in the same boat as Nike, and would love to have the standard set for records which involves minimal, to no ‘exploits’. Some believe speed runs should be just that, a run where you try and complete it as fast as possible. On the other hand, there are those that believe they should be a display of a very high level of skill, with minimal game mechanic ‘abuse’.
However, this brings us back to the biggest problem that we face when we try to ‘regulate’ what is a legit, or non-legit speed run.
How do we decide what is an exploit, and what isn’t?
I think I speak for most people in [rT], when I say that it would be much more interesting to have records based on ‘who is better’, rather than ‘who has better exploits’. I’m sure some of you think this is pretty hilarious coming from the guild that is seen as exploiting everything, but it is how it is.
There will never be any agreement on what is an isn’t an exploit unfortunately, since there is no honor among thieves. The only policy that makes any sense is to have an anything goes policy, even if I personally don’t find that fun to participate in.
That said, when people post record videos from now on with blatant, pathetic exploits I don’t feel obligated to give them any respect for a job well done, because frankly, it wasn’t.
I just said that the build is not centered around using your f1 skill and doing so only punishes your dps.
There is no good pve warrior build that is centered around using your f1 skill. Plenty of bad ones available, though.
I will stick with 30/25/0/0/15 as its better for solo and running sections.
This is a fair consideration, but the following need be considered…
1. It’s worse in groups do to poor Might stacking.
2. Running sections of the hardest dungeon aren’t difficult with either build so that isn’t particularly relevant.
You could YOLO it and bring a solo build in group settings (plenty of people do) but that’s pretty selfish. As an aside, it’s hilarious to me when people claim to care about running min/min max and trying to perfect everything, only to throw all that effort out because of lazy choices (like using the wrong stacking sigil for their build) or some other snowflake consideration.
Prob still stick with 30/0/0/10/30 for Empowered even if its 1%.
I dunno, 5% damage for you (being generous with boons) isn’t as much as 1.5 vuln stacks + 5% crit chance for you.
As for the people who say “any good group will have 25 vuln stacks anyway” I think should record their runs and watch themselves in a boss fight that lasts more than 10 seconds and let me know if they have 25 stacks permanently. With 4 warriors using Axe/mace it is difficult to keep the bar locked at 25 for very long, so some honestly self-assessment is in order there.
As far as the other bizarre build suggestions I’ve seen 30/20/0/20/0 or 30/30/0/10/0 these are low dps options builds and not anywhere close to what will be considered meta for instanced pve.
Yeah I agree. Since the Canach update it hasn’t seemed to matter one bit what level I’ve done when it comes to weapon skins.
I wrote a huge thing but took too long and got timed out. So I’ll be brief. Some things I consider game breaking exploits, and wouldn’t consider a run using them to be valid. Some I consider shady, but valid. and others I consider perfectly legit. I don’t expect anyone to agree with my opinions nor do I expect them to at all be community standards.
To be truthful, I have been discouraged recently in going for record attempts because no matter what we do, someone will always be willing to exploit harder than I am. It’s not fun to work your kitten off for a record video only to have it trumped in 3 days because someone was willing to glitch a boss or go outside the map. If the community standard is that stuff is OK, so be it, but I don’t have any desire to participate in it in that case.
So here is my short list of common exploits and how I label them. Black are things I consider definite exploits that shouldn’t count for records. Grey is valid but shady. White is OK
Black
Using flowers, or positioning, to glitch a boss so that it either doesn’t attack at all, or so you can hit it, but it cannot hit you.
Going outside the map to skip things using blinks, portals or consumables.
Using blinks to bug animations for fiery great sword/bear form. Anet’s stance on animation graphical-only glitches is clear: they are an exploit. So an animation glitch that has a broken in game effect is bullkitten. It is basically a double abuse because you’re breaking the game to make an imbalanced, unintended mechanic even more imbalanced.
grey
Using consumables to trivialize encounters aka Ash Legion Kits prenerf in Dredge or Spikey Fruit vs. Bjarl or the Lovers. Spikey Fruit is only still functional in dungeons because Hrouda didn’t know they existed when he removed Dam Debris, and he is no long in a position to do anything about them now. I list these as grey because they are consumables being used for the specific functon they are intended to be used in rather than used in ways as oppose to, say, gem store Flowers.
Staying inside a map, but using “clever” routes to skip things. The dredge jump is currently on the darker side of grey. the SE path 3 bridge ledge (which actually loses you time) is on the lighter side. Since you’re not going outside the map, and not using a consumable, I am OK with these types for records even if they are shady
white
Fiery greatsword rush/bear form against a wall/corner – the big debate. I am in the middle ground between HC and rT on this. Using a blink, to me, is clearly an exploit. Arguing that it isn’t is ridiculous. And I feel the mechanic itself is broken and needs to be fixed, but that said, to take advantage of it without a blink requires positioning and timing, which are both skill based. So I am not opposed to record runs using it so long as there are no blinks used. Additionally, having an ele using the FGS rush isn’t even optimal for all dungeon records, only the ones with time gates that allows for fire field Might stacks to be used without costing the run time. So I don;t think it is AS BAD as HC, but I don’t think anything goes like rT feels is right.
Fire ele powders pet whistles etc: don’t think these break the game at all, and they are only really useful in a handful of places. They are more for speed kills rather than speed clears and the two are hardly synonymous.
At 48 the chances are the highest to get a fractal weapon,
Is that even true for an established fact? I know my anecdotal small sample size says that above 22 (or whatever the minimum is) it seems totally equal.
10 points into arms would be for Rending Strikes to give your party a 3% dps boost vs trash and 1.5% boost vs bosses.
Basically 30/10/0/0/30 or 30/25/0/0/15 would be the most viable pve builds, with 30/10 having a few percent better DPS.
Neither would bring nearly as much to the table for total party dps as the current meta does.
This isn’t, as has been debated, a nerf to warriors since their DPS will be largely unaffected, but rather a nerf to overall gw2 pve team dps.
Prop to Broad and Kirsch for understanding a word of that OP and being able to process it well enough to attempt an answer.
Clearly his ele is trying to join Arah speed clear record attempts where they need to stack 4 warriors. Under those circumstances it makes total sense.
you know one of the things that annoys me more than anything in this game, is when people refer to fractal runs as “xx daily”
I’ve noticed this phenomenon too. Allow me to translate pug-ese.
“LF2M Fotm 48 Daily!”
=
“Lf2m FotM 48. This isn’t a progression run for me, I’ve done this millions of times and I am clearly experienced since I do this everyday, and I absolutely do not want anyone to join my group who is doing it for progression because they will suck compared to me who does it everyday.”
Not everyone likes the playstyle of zerker. I
When you say “playstyle” what do you mean? “Having to dodge?” I mean, lets say you ran full Knights warrior instead, wouldnt the tactics and methods you use be the exact same, just slower?
I can’t imagine why no one wanted you in their party. Underleveled and undergeared with a drug reference name. That wouldn’t set off any red flags for me.
Yeah being more skillful sucks. I agree with you.
If fractal weapons changed colors based on the level you acquired them on, there would be a prestige element. Fotm level 80 fractal weapons would be pretty kick kitten .
Ya’ll be smoking crackerjacks.
Glad to see you confirmed Empower Allies getting switched for Lung Capacity from the leaked notes.
In gw1 I usually brought me and 4 mesmers, 1 necro and 1 rit and pew pew blow stuff stuff with OP mesmer AOEs. But when it came to pve I was a casual.
I don’t know what an elitist guild is defined as.
Or it could be un-broken by giving us things to spend it on. Why not have exotic weapons for 50 or 75 thousand? Then the mystic forgers among us could have something to blow it all on. And new players could continue to accrue it at a pace that would allow them to afford things.
FYI, the wvw vendors sell level 80 rares for karma. Knock yourself out!
The funny thing is, since zerkers are trying to maximise their potential they actually have the most open mind of all players since they’re always interested in making themselves better (excluding opinions on the meta pre-brazil ranger video, most of us were pretty closeminded on class meta until then), it’s just people post stuff that is blatantly wrong so many times.
This 1000 times. I was talking with Brazil today when we were discussing a (former) guild mate who quit the game when a weapon he liked got nerfed. I was saying that is such a carebear BHB attitude.
Let’s say a patch came out that radically changed the game and Longbow became the best warrior weapon by far, and optimal for speed running. What would the min/max speed clear crowd do? They would run longbow warriors. What would the open minded, run-what-you-brung, play how you want crowd do? They would run what weapons they liked because it is they who aren’t willing to change to be successful. The dungeon community is always interested in improving and doing things a better way. If clerics gear became meta, we would run clerics. So who is close minded, and who is open minded?
Nike, this is what I’m trying to explain. You are describing a meta that can only be achievable with the game as it currently is. If encounters were “smarter” or more random where improvisation is key, no meta could be achieved cause no combat would be the same as the other. In one battle straight damage could’ve been king where conditions ruled in another depending if the NPCs locks you down with CC or not.
You’re describing a meta where celestial gear is the best. God help us if thats the case.
The funny thing is, since zerkers are trying to maximise their potential they actually have the most open mind of all players since they’re always interested in making themselves better (excluding opinions on the meta pre-brazil ranger video, most of us were pretty closeminded on class meta until then), it’s just people post stuff that is blatantly wrong so many times.
This 1000 times. I was talking with Brazil today when we were discussing a (former) guild mate who quit the game when a weapon he liked got nerfed. I was saying that is such a carebear BHB attitude.
Let’s say a patch came out that radically changed the game and Longbow became the best warrior weapon by far, and optimal for speed running. What would the min/max speed clear crowd do? They would run longbow warriors. What would the open minded, run-what-you-brung, play how you want crowd do? They would run what weapons they liked because it is they who aren’t willing to change to be successful. The dungeon community is always interested in improving and doing things a better way. If clerics gear became meta, we would run clerics. So who is close minded, and who is open minded?
What manner of sorcerous divination allowed you to see the contents of a patch a fort night away? This witch craft and magick cannot be tolerated. Banish him to the mines!
Forks and knives are meta now, but according to my spreadsheet straws are the most efficient way to eat. In 6 months you’ll come around to my understanding and forget who said it first. In the meantime I will refuse to show any proof that straws are better.
Every group I run in achieves 25 Might for every fight, so no, it isn’t especially rare.
I never understood the concept of caring about whats optimal in a pug. That’s like arguing whats the best type of offense for pee wee football when the goal is to make it to the NFL.
Doesn’t this kind of destroy our entire arguement? This whole thread is when playing in pug and you’re saying I have to play with that optimal build but you don’t care about being optimal in a pug…
Anyways to answer your question about fun. Say if I would hate the greatsword skills and love the 1h sword skills playing GS would take alot of the fun out of it.
Fact is, what is optimal in an organized group is still optimal in a pug. It’s not like 4 stacks of vulnerability do less in a pug than a normal group. The entire concept of ‘taking more tankiness and healing because pugs’ is a self-fulfilling prophecy: if everyone presumes bad dps and bad play and make bad build choices as a result, you’re gonna do badly.
So based on hearsay, with no evidence, we are supposed to believe exactly what?
We have very limited public information. All we have is supply and price snapshots. No accurate volume or demand figures. The only other set of information we have comes from John Smith’s posts, which reinforce that there is no market cornering happening.
In this situation, with limited information, we can make very limited conclusions. Based on what information we do have, it would be absolutely non-nonsensical to assume there is a market cornering conspiracy happening since none of the evidence we have supports that, and some of it contradicts that.
If you are going to allege that John Smith is lying, and/or his figures are made up and that he is part of the conspiracy (for some reason) than what you are doing is doubling down on an irrational conspiracy theory and going further into the rabbit hole. that is rather embarrassing.
PVT does the same dps as Berserker vs the tree. WHICH IS WHY CARRION FTW IN TA BOSS FIGHTS GET ON MY LEVEL
Yeah, the forum quintuple posted and now won’t let me delete the extra.
Leave us to our cluelessness. Return to the enlightened discussion of informed adults occurring in the general discussion forthwith!
GO ON NOW, GIT!
People won’t understand that you’re supposed to skip some parts until Anet makes all the mobs Legendaries with a neon sign around them that says “SNEAKY PATH HERE!”
Really because I did my Dungeon Master title by killing every mob in my way. Not sure why some things are MEANT to be skipped.
You killed the legendary risen giants in arah? You killed the risen sharks in path 2? That sounds like the worst day of my life.
Surely you could take 30/25/0/0/15 and just not take forceful greatsword. Theres not really any other good choices but atleast you wont screw up might stacks. The 10% on bleeding foes is surely better than 15% crit damage?
It’s 10% on bleed foe, 1.25 vuln stacks and 2 stacks of bleed vs 15% crit damage, 4% chance to crit, and 1% damage per boon (3-8%) and 2 stacks of Might.
Class balance incoming if leaked patch notes are to be believed… and they usually are.
A whole list of changes that do nothing to address pve balance except nerfing Empower Allies. Good because I was sick of being out dps’ed by Guardians thanks to my own buffs.
Well, they just made 30/25/0/0/15 even more attractive. Not necessarily the best theoretical dps or whatever but the cd reduction is fun for running.
I haven’t done the numbers yet but I would presume in an organized group the debate will be 30/10 vs 30/0. And the resolution of that debate comes down to how many boons you assume for Empowered. Forceful GS is still a dps loss in a group that Might caps, so I wouldn’t consider 30/25 optimal in those conditions.
The CD on Rush and WWA for trash running seems nice, but really even in Arah how many trash runs do you need to use those skills twice? Maybe once on p1 would it be nice to use Rush a second time. If you have Sword/WH on swap for the runs you are moving to the next safe spot quick enough.
Every group I run in achieves 25 Might for every fight, so no, it isn’t especially rare.
I never understood the concept of caring about whats optimal in a pug. That’s like arguing whats the best type of offense for pee wee football when the goal is to make it to the NFL.
But you can do it only with 3x war, mess, guard.
So this is why i said ,,After all axe/mace – GS is made to maximize dmg but you will use its full potential only with 3xwar, mes, guard."
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
Fact: you do your best potential in ANY group that has 25 might stacks and 25 vuln stacks and all the banners covered. 3 war and a mesmer is only one way to do it. As you can see, there are plenty of viable party comps out there.
But you can do it only with 3x war, mess, guard.
So this is why i said ,,After all axe/mace – GS is made to maximize dmg but you will use its full potential only with 3xwar, mes, guard."
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
Fact: you do your best potential in ANY group that has 25 might stacks and 25 vuln stacks and all the banners covered. 3 war and a mesmer is only one way to do it. As you can see, there are plenty of viable party comps out there.
But you can do it only with 3x war, mess, guard.
So this is why i said ,,After all axe/mace – GS is made to maximize dmg but you will use its full potential only with 3xwar, mes, guard."
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
Fact: you do your best potential in ANY group that has 25 might stacks and 25 vuln stacks and all the banners covered. 3 war and a mesmer is only one way to do it. As you can see, there are plenty of viable party comps out there.
But you can do it only with 3x war, mess, guard.
So this is why i said ,,After all axe/mace – GS is made to maximize dmg but you will use its full potential only with 3xwar, mes, guard."
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
3 war 1m 1g?
Fact: you do your best potential in ANY group that has 25 might stacks and 25 vuln stacks and all the banners covered. 3 war and a mesmer is only one way to do it. As you can see, there are plenty of viable party comps out there.
I didn’t draw any conclusions in my original post. I merely stated: “My friend saw a bunch of dawns vanish from the TP and then an identical number show up shortly afterwards, reposted for roughly 200gp more.”
The data I provided supports my friend’s observation of what happened in the market. No where in this topic have I stated that the cause was market manipulation. You started that rant on your own with your “conspiracy theory” statements.
You’re playing coy. You know exactly what your thread was about and what implications you were trying to make. Now you’re just refusing to own up to it.
Class balance incoming if leaked patch notes are to be believed… and they usually are.
A whole list of changes that do nothing to address pve balance except nerfing Empower Allies. Good because I was sick of being out dps’ed by Guardians thanks to my own buffs.
Here is the flaw in your analysis. Your buddy shows supply lowering and prices rising. The only conclusions you can, and should, draw from that are in regards to price, supply and demand. And frankly, we don’t know enough about demand from that data to even conclude anything solid about demand.
Unfortunately, the conclusions people are trying to draw are elaborate market control conspiracy theories. That is fantasy and conjecture.
I’m sorry your idea of “taking the fun out of the game” equals playing optimal builds and doing things the correct way. Playing an intentionally bad build and doing things intentionally wrong, that is supposed to be fun?
I’m going to respond to this in the only way that makes sense…
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Don’t ask me, I’ll never tell
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And now you’re in my way
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But now you’re in my way
Your stare was holdin’,
Ripped jeans, skin was showin’
Hot night, wind was blowin’
Where you think you’re going, baby?
Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
It’s hard to look right,
At you baby,
But here’s my number,
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And this is crazy,
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Try to chase me,
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You took your time with the call,
I took no time with the fall
You gave me nothing at all,
But still, you’re in my way
I beg, and borrow and steal
Have foresight and it’s real
I didn’t know I would feel it,
But it’s in my way
Your stare was holdin’,
Ripped jeans, skin was showin’
Hot night, wind was blowin’
Where you think you’re going, baby?
Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
It’s hard to look right,
At you baby,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
And all the other boys,
Try to chase me,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
Before you came into my life
I missed you so bad
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I missed you so bad
And you should know that
I missed you so, so bad
It’s hard to look right,
At you baby,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
And all the other boys,
Try to chase me,
But here’s my number,
So call me, maybe?
Before you came into my life
I missed you so bad
I missed you so bad
I missed you so, so bad
Before you came into my life
I missed you so bad
And you should know that
So call me, maybe?
My friend saw a bunch of dawns vanish from the TP and then an identical number show up shortly afterwards, reposted for roughly 200gp more.
…and we’re off into conspiracy theory land!
I don’t recall posting any conspiracy theories… just stating what my friend observed as “fact”. Don’t want to beleive it? Then don’t.
However ANet does have the data available at their finger tips to review (if they wanted to or if they care about this type of behavior). In short, what we think is moot.
If it was a “fact” my belief wouldn’t matter, the evidence (which you don’t have any of) would stand on its own.
Anet does have the data, and the LAST time this stupid issue came up they provided it. It seemed to shut up the morons for about 2 days before they came back in full force pretending it was never shared.
Certainly if evidence showed it didn’t happen before, it definitely couldn’t happen ever, from now out until infinity…
/* end sarcasm */
I have never seen A-Net/J.Smith post evidence on anything. If you have the link to the evidence from “last time” that would be good for a few chuckles.
Short of watching the TP, there’s not much more in the way of “evidence” a player can provide is there? Unless you propose fraps’ing the TP for hours on end hoping to catch the behavior in action?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Dusk-sold-out-1-Left/first#post2713593
Apology accepted in advance.
I’d say stickied but there are no mods for this forum, only modbot.
Are you smoking crackerjacks again? See ya in 3 days after my ban for using the modbot banned term “crackerjacks.”
After all axe/mace – GS is made to maximize dmg but you will use its full potential only with 3xwar, mes, guard.
This is incredibly false. Axe/Mace is still superior even in pugs and unorganized groups.
Change mace to warhorn and what is difference? Few % of dmg becouse of one trait few stacks of vulnerabilily……And even this is lowered if you have empowered, becouse with horn you have at least one more boon on yourself then with mace. And more then sometimes 2 more boons.
Axe/mace has highest dps but you will hardly see any difference with warhorn instead of mace. Warhorns skills more then fully compensate those few % lost on dmg. Everything depends on group and encounter. There are bosses thet would be very foolish to melee them Axe/mace – GS without premade group and at least one even with. Vigor makes huge difference.
7200 hit instead of 7500 is not that great loss. If someone wants to have more survival ability it is much better do it by changing mace to warhorn instead of using knight gear. There the loss would be much bigger.
If you want to quote something quote whole post and not one sentence out of context. What i said is right. You will use FULL potetial of axe/mace-GS only with ,,premade" group.
I use Warhorn quite a bit. However, I don’t claim that it’s superior DPS to axe/mace. Axe/Mace is superior dps in all situations. I actually used warhorn on the last speed run guide I did, because the party swiftness in between fights was more useful than the extra dps during the brief boss fights. You say “full potential” but I don’t know what that means, 4 stacks of vulnerability and an on demand aoe CC is good regardless of party composition.