Guild Wars 2

Remember when people used to make posts about how exotic gear gave people an unfair advantage in wvw?

Since hardcore WvWers are such top tier pvp players it won’t make any difference as they should have no problem dumpstering the ascended pve bads who venture into their game-mode, right?

This is a troll.

Grok Krog.9581:

Been testing it today, and what I’ve gathered so far is that if Frenzy is used after Hundred Blades, you do the damage as fast as if you activated it before Hundred Blades, the difference is you don’t swing your Greatsword as fast and you need to interrupt the animation by moving or using an attack once the damage stops otherwise you just keep swinging it not doing any damage

Tested it and confirmed this is true.

People say “the solution is…” as if they were solving an actual problem. There is no problem. The game is balanced as it is. If you can’t dodge or dont know the encounters run tankier gear. The more you know the encounters, the more dps you can bring.

Want to know what this is really about? This is about guys who have full clerics guardians or celestial rangers being told by someone that they “are bad” and getting their feelers hurt. They have committed to their gear choice by investing all their money into it, and then they are told that makes them a bad player. The natural reaction to that is to get defensive, or view the ‘zerker elitist’ mentality as a “problem” that they have to “solve.”

I’m looking for a pve burning build for guardians. But I dont have the first idea where to start with that.

DaKillaOfHell.5907:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

IF YOU DONT ALLOW THE BOSS TO HIT YOU WITH ALL ITS ATTACKS YOURE EXPLOITING

Even if you use your Shift key, it doesn’t change the fact that all the bosses aren’t using all their attacks in every position. A great example for this is Nente from AC Story or Subject Alpha in path 1.

USING TERRAIN TO YOUR ADVANTAGE IN DYNAMIC COMBAT IS AN EXPLOIT

I think the point I am making is…

On paper 1w/1r/1eng/1ele/1m is the highest dps party comp in the game give or take. Yet in most cases, speed runs are faster with 4w/1*.

The difference in times between the paper dps group and the real world is what intrigues me. Obviously the answer is shouts are instant cast and can be done on the move, and warriors are the only class besides engie that are good at might stacking AND vuln stacking. And unlike engie they can do it on the run. But nonetheless, I do like exploring that gap in paper and reality.

Stinson.5972:

To illustrate by example (from yesterday)

Guy makes a normal LFG, just says “be experienced,” not gearcheck or anything else. We get the group going, we start the dungeon and kill some mobs. Guy says, “Run DPS if you can.” Guard in the group says, “I’m running a support build.” Guy immediately leaves, kicking all of us because he opened.

I’m fine if people want to run a certain kind of group but it should be advertised that way. Don’t collect random people, then tell them do something they may not be able to do – like, you know, summon a full zerker set and change their traits on command – and immediately rage out when they don’t. If you don’t want random people don’t join random groups. It’s not hard.

Experienced = full zerker. I know he didn’t spell that out, but its implied.

1. trait we all share; boredom.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

What the actually the point? There is no boss in game who have to be destroyed in 10 seconds. Pure damage traits makes you vulnerable in so many ways. For example – on fire grawl fractal with Adrenal Health and Heling signet i can don’t even dodge burning and still be up. (learn to dodge, bla-bla-bla, i know all this stuff, i have 1k hours on my pure zerk war, test a lot of things)

Difference in damage is not big enough to drop everything supporting abilities.

What are you saying here?

Wethospu.6437:

Static meatbag target is not dynamic.

I’m not advocating for that. I’m personally satisfied the dps numbers I calculate translate to gameplay closely enough to be meaningful. Like I said, I am much more intrigued by the times when numbers don’t match experience, because that discrepancy is where refinement of skill and innovative strategies pay the most dividends.

Because they aren’t about TAFU.

Actually, to me, the most interesting thing is how dynamic combat changes what is optimal in game versus paper.

Arah P1 Record, for example: 3w/1m/1t.

Max dps group comp on paper: 1w/1m/1r/1ele/1eng

If the game translated from spreadsheets to actual game play so well, the spreadsheet comp above would hold every record.

You’re mistaken about the interaction of the order of field placement.

No, you have to start the frenzy prior to the channeling of hundred blades or you won’t get IAS.

Yeah those were just for boss kills specifically not path clears. Path clears consumables should be ok. But since outside consumables have a history of making boss kills into jokes, I think it would be wise to not allow skritt technology or something similar to stand the test of time.

Dub.1273:

Until enboss dies is pretty stupid in my opinion because in some dungeons you don’t get the reward when the endboss died, the path isn’t completed yet.

Examples? All I can think of is COE, and having the record come down to killing the alpha essences is ridiculous.

hybrid.5027:

If you can think of other rules that should/would be needed, feel free to let me know

Ban all non-nourishment consumables
All bosses must be fought in a way that does not glitch them or prevent the party from being invulnerable to their attack
No using a Mimic’ed (or otherwise) agony attack
No gem store strength or armor boosters

rT and HC should add their recent records to the forum to get these more up to date.

laharl.8435:

Full runs – Timer begins with interaction of first npc (this does mean the first graveling in AC doesn’t count, but that should be fine). The remaining players who do not start the dungeon event can get into location. Pre-stacking allowed. Pre-pathing is not allowed. Timer ends with boss kill.

There is an npc you trigger with proximity to open the first door in AC. That trigger is the obvious place to start.

Link no work.

/15char

What you should do is fight Laurent on TAF and all stack right on him. Do not spread out at all, make sure you’re in a tight ball. Report back how the exploit worked for you.

This has been the case since launch. Last Chance is pretty bad for that reason, among others. Nothing like your Last Chance kicking in during a mesmer’s time warp!

Last boss dying is my preference because it is the same across every dungeon and eliminates annoying things like cut scene loading times, or rng based events that occur after the dungeon is “over” that could potentially screw things up, and you eliminate the problem of someone having already done their daily.

The more I think about it the less I care about arah sigil stacking. People do it for casual runs, so it’s not like you’re taking extraordinary measures. The dungeon is designed to facilitate it, so it doesn’t seem crazy to allow it.

hybrid.5027:

If we go by Wethospus timing, the vast majority of records will have to be redone.
How do the people who have the records feel about that?

Would really hurt the Arah records moreso than some of the others, but just the same interacting with the first npc seems like the most no-brainer way to do it since it is reasonable across every dungeon, and doesnt invalidate old records.

IF YOU DONT ALLOW THE BOSS TO HIT YOU WITH ALL ITS ATTACKS YOURE EXPLOITING

I think of coe p1 and how awful it would be to have the record done by a few seconds, but then lose it because you spent 15 seconds scrambling to kill all the little Alpha Essences scattered around the room. Would kill me.

Also the daily bonus chest is good since it usually pops up before the end cut scene, but my issue with that is if that isn’t your first run of the day…

One thing that would be cool is, once “perfect” dps is known in an ideal situation with perfect rotations, you can measure your own deviations from that. If, for example, you kill a boss 30 times, and your dps is on average 10% below what attacking a static dummy, and other players report similar 10% loss, you could create a “difficulty scale” or rating or something for each boss. Might not be very useful, but it would be somewhat cool.

I still think the end should be when you get the XP pop for the last boss. And I agree that the timing should be the first interaction with the npc. I don’t mind building up stacks first in dungeons where it’s possible, but I can definitely understand why someone could be against it so I wouldn’t care either way it’s decided.

Guang has be right enough (or close to right enough) for me to grant him the benefit of the doubt usually.

Even if Rifle was noticeably better single target dps than Longbow, I would still use longbow for the fire field, arcing arrow, and immobilize.

Literally the only encounter in the game I use longbow for is the grawl shaman fractal and the fire field and arcing arrow and immobilize are all immensely valuable for reasons that should be obvious.

In a real gameplay you would use your blind/vuln skills on cool down. It is more valuable to dps test the rotations that people actually use rather than non-sense.

Except Longbow has utility and Rifle really doesn’t, but there is no spreadsheet column for that so I understand why it doesn’t compute.

Broadicea.8294:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Either approach is fine, actually so long as you remember that observable phenomenons always trump theory.

An example is economics where the current paradigm are microfoundations. Meaning, any macro theory you have is only considered valid if you can provide micro-level causes to explain the macro effect. Unfortunately, there are plenty of macro phenomena that we observe in reality that cannot be explained with micofoundations. What happens in those cases is, half the economists in the world say “that can’t happen” while the others say “…but it is happening.”

The difference is whether you use theory to describe how the world is versus to describe how the world ought to be. Once you venture into the ‘ought to be’ realm you set yourself (or whomever’s money you manage) up for literal disaster.

So in regards to guild wars 2, in an ideal situation you would measure kill times/clear times with the same players using different compositions and analyze the data to figure out why one composition was more or less effective than another.

In a full path clear with all 5 members contributing, there are just too many variables to approach a useful analysis. I mean, the difference between 5 bearbows versus an organized team the differences are clear, but the differences between a 5:24 clear with W/W/E/M/G and a 5:17 with W/R/Eng/M/T are too subtle to be dissected by that kind of 30,000 ft analysis. That’s why I’d like to home in on the individual contributions. Of course a 2% difference in clear time doesn’t really matter for casual runs but they do for records (not to mention this provide great data for pvt losers to get upset about).

I was talking pie in the sky ideal. In this fantasy we can run the path 1000 times with each build and get reliable data.

Either approach is fine, actually so long as you remember that observable phenomenons always trump theory.

An example is economics where the current paradigm are microfoundations. Meaning, any macro theory you have is only considered valid if you can provide micro-level causes to explain the macro effect. Unfortunately, there are plenty of macro phenomena that we observe in reality that cannot be explained with micofoundations. What happens in those cases is, half the economists in the world say “that can’t happen” while the others say “…but it is happening.”

The difference is whether you use theory to describe how the world is versus to describe how the world ought to be. Once you venture into the ‘ought to be’ realm you set yourself (or whomever’s money you manage) up for literal disaster.

So in regards to guild wars 2, in an ideal situation you would measure kill times/clear times with the same players using different compositions and analyze the data to figure out why one composition was more or less effective than another.

He is undead. He is actually fighting with inquest at the start of the dungeon, and once they die he animates them as risen thrall allies.

TMYK

spoj.9672:

Should start calculating team dps rather than class dps. And then we can simply test by making the composition fight a select meatshield boss and compare to the calculations.

That won’t be popular with the types of people who aren’t interested in hearing about the dps superiority of teams with a ranger in them.

Broadicea.8294:

But to the point of “slowing high end PvE teams down”, how much does it? Like, not at all. Seconds perhaps? After all, we can still take it if we really want to, sacrificing just a little bit of personal DPS for the team boost.

My guess is it would slow down most boss fights by 4-5%

Max might and max vuln is not so obvious.

If you test with max might and vuln: you punish builds that invest traits into creating might and vuln. Whats the point of investing points into a might generating trait when your control test is going to get you to 25 anyway? Works the same for vuln.

If you test without max might and vuln: you will find builds that generate their own might and vuln are vastly biased.

Example: With Might and Vuln, Thief single target dps will be absolutely insane since it doesnt waste any trait points unnecessarily into generating buffs.

Without Might and Vuln, a warrior build with Rending strikes and Forceful greatsword will be the top dps in the game, along with s/d ele and 100nade engineer.

So the question becomes, “which scenario most closely replicates real world gameplay conditions?”

From a design standpoint, Anet has a pretty clear history in this game of nerfing builds that go into a particular traitline for 10 points only just to snipe one uber trait. That was the philosophy behind their previous pve warrior nerfs, and it appears to be continuing here.

I think you underestimate what adding 750 power to your party did for dps. In a group that was Might capping, it was a 4-5% partywide buff, and an even bigger buff to less efficient groups. There are very few traits in the game with impact that big. Oddly enough, the next two biggest ones are Spotter and the trait for ranger spirits.

IMO if you wanted to “nerf” EA following their established design principles, they should have made it the Grandmaster trait for Arms. That way you’re forced to choose between Fast Hands or EA, which is a much more compelling choice than the current dilemma.

I was testing the staff build last night in light of the patch, but I fell asleep at my desk after casting Lava Font for the 4th time.

If I could put infusions in my ascended weapons that were 5% damage reduction vs Dredge and Elementals, I would trade all my AR for those.

nagr.1593:

I just had 2 questions because I’ve heard otherwise for both.. so generally butternut squash soup is better DPS than omnom pie/ghost? and I’ve heard rifle is better than bow for single target like say some bosses in fractals, is this still the case?

+80 precisions +8% crit damage > +70 precision and 300ps lifesteal.

Use Longbow.

Reddit community = the profession specific forum community here, minus the actually good pvp contributors to those forums.

Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.

And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.

lunyboy.8672:

How about the funniest player fails thread? It doesn’t qualify as a “question” per se, but it is certainly a LOT of people making fun of others.

Most of the posts in that thread are so called elitists pointing out their own fails.

Or how about the erstwhile TA F/U path threads, where e’erybody hopped on the troll bandwagon?

The first few dozen TAFU threads got legit answers. eventually, we all started to assume the posters were trolls continuing a meme and treated them as such.

Also, it should be noted that most of the time we gave legit answers in a TAFU thread we were responded to with “play how you want” BS which is typically the cause of the derailment.

DesertRose.2031:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I did the math for this in my written guide on Guru. 30/10 is the 3rd best choice.

30/25>30/0>30/10

30/0 = 30/0/0/10/30?

Correct, with Empowered (or Desperate Power if you are the bravest of the brave!) in Tactics.

Killface.1896:

Think best now is 20-30-0-0-20 with GS+axe/mace and use axe finisher when its up.

Not even close to being the 4th best option.