Guild Wars 2

ShakeyStorm.7180:

NikeEU.7690:

Valik Shin.9027:

I honestly don’t know y there even needs to be an ICD on weapon swap trait. Ur already building the trait for the class and weapon swap itself already has a cd

In PvE and WvW there was a way to stack 25 Might solo in about 3 seconds before a fight. It was pretty broken.

I can still do that now. Well i get 21 and everyone can get 24. Close enough. Without the banner thing.

Using blast finishers in a fire field isn’t the same as clicking an item in your inventory 13 times really quickly.

Khristophoros.7194:

NikeEU.7690:

Khristophoros.7194:

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

Please educate yourself on what the meta is before you make statements like that.

Dude, context… I’m talking about Berserker.

Berserker is a specialization. So it has to be Berserker/Tactics/Strength for a PvE Berserker power build.

Why would anyone run a Power based Berserker build in PvE besides just for kicks?

As far as Condi based Berserker builds, the Burning won’t be that OP. We are talking an average of 5-6 stacks of burning over time. Nothing especially good there compared to Ranger/Engie. Warrior will still do most of it’s condi work with bleeds. And you won’t need Tactics because Tactics is garbage in a condi build when you have the option to take Arms/Discipline/Berserker.

@dlonie Personally I will be satisfied with literally any new instanced team content. But if they are going to advertise it as the “ultimate challenge” and all the other terms they have thrown around I certainly would assume they expect it to be challenging. When someone uses terms like that, I would say they are setting the bar at Wildstar raids.

Do I expect Wildstar level raid difficulty? Nah. But its on them for using that language to create that impression.

Killyox.3950:

Lots of crit baseline = more of another stat.

Or turn your signet of fury into a signet of might. That sounds a lot better than buying useless condi gear or some other extreme solution.

Khristophoros.7194:

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

Please educate yourself on what the meta is before you make statements like that.

Valik Shin.9027:

I honestly don’t know y there even needs to be an ICD on weapon swap trait. Ur already building the trait for the class and weapon swap itself already has a cd

In PvE and WvW there was a way to stack 25 Might solo in about 3 seconds before a fight. It was pretty broken.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ibc07/yes_we_want_challenging_group_content_but/cuf61as

A guy is arguing with me that people in full exotics should be able to beat “challenging group content.” I argue that what kind of challenge could it be if people can beat it with a 15% stat handicap. “there are other kinds of challenges.” Sure dude. You can have teamwork, interrupt, synergy, individual responsibility requirements and those are all challenging. But they are mechanical. Mechanics get memorized after enough repetitions. What keeps challenging content challenging AFTER you mastered the mechanics is the give and take between “we brought too much DPS, now we die from lack of sustain” vs “we brought too much sustain so we can’t kill before the enrage timer.” Properly tuned content will stress ALL systems and I cannot see how you can have content that is beatable with a 15% handicap that will present a sustained challenge for groups without it.

Also, wtf? This is the “ultimate challenge.” this is the “end game challenging group content.” Why would anyone even think for a second they are ready for that when they can’t bother to gear their main in best in slot gear?

LOL what kind of math is this. Warrior gets to 100% crit chance with full berserker, any amount of assassins gear is a dps loss even with that trait.

savacli.8172:

Warrior currently uses Dumplings, but my stash is about to run out and am re-gearing with Strength runes in lieu of buying more Dumplings. Leaning towards Salads on this one since Signet precision stacks keeping my precision pretty high. Though 100B wouldn’t get salad buff…Go with Super soup (Power/Ferocity)

You should be running Strength Runes and Dumplings. Salad is a waste on warrior, truffle steaks are a waste on warrior, and Soups are more expensive than Dumplings.

Any KING members have statistical insight into speculation that armor and weapon box drop rates got nerfed since the change to transmuting stats?

Valik Shin.9027:

The only build that rotates through skills faster than warrior is a dd ele. Fast hands should be baseline.

Engineer?

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you. You can patronize if you like, but being dismissive of someone who has a pretty good grasp on this game’s structure and theorycraft is to your own detriment.

If your basic level theory was correct, and guardians didnt have a distinct role in the meta, you could watch a record run with a guardian in it and replace that guardian with any other profession that had equal DPS and the time of the run would be the exact same. On the other hand, if I am correct in my assertion that guardians have a very defined role, you could not replace the guardian with any random profession/build of equal DPS and expect similar results. Even a genius author of a comprehensive Burn guide should be able to deduce which of us is correct.

I propose 4 different categories…

Full Party, Trio, Duo, Solo

As far as UI, not my forte.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

So when someone asks you to use Wall of Reflect defend against projectiles you use Wall of Reflect because you chose a class that reflects projectiles. You don’t cry about it, you like it.

Sword/Axe Rev with Shiro/Ventari or Shiro/Jalis or Jalis/Ventari is going to be really really good at replacing Guardian in a lot of content.

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

I know you’re trolling, but the dungeon community has nothing to do with it. Most of us are pretty easy going about team comp, especially in random pugs. The people who created the unmanageable standard are the wannabe-elitist scrubs who aren’t in the actual “community.”

As far as the archdiviner condi clearing goes, that isn’t a Ranger problem. Ranger’s longest cool down is 20 seconds for Flame Trap. It’s not like Engineer where Incendiary Ammo and Flamewall have horrendous cooldowns. A condi ranger will be able to have full DPS each diviner phase.

I also think the cannon phase at Mai Trin is probably long enough for every condi build to get their cool downs back

Ramp up time for condi ranger isn’t as pronounced as engineer since you only have to cast 4 skills and you’re at your max DPS. I think ramp up time was something like 5 seconds for the ranger. The benefits of a condi build where bleeding isnt the star of the show.

WindGodGirl.6405:

Sinister + Sword/Sword and Sword/Shield is pretty strong.

It’s not. in a solo setting, that build generates about 5k dps. the meta berserker warrior build is closer to 8k. That’s a steep drop off. Even if you add longbow on swap instead of useless shield, you only get to like 6.5k. My hope is that S/T+LB gets it to at least 8k solo.

Condi warrior used to be better than berserker against high armor value targets but the buffs to berserker means that condi is strictly inferior. It can be fun to play, and hopefully the Torch gives it the extra DPS it’s missing but it’s unlikely it will ever be meta for dungeon.s

First record run I’ve watched without skipping ahead in ages. Any reason for Ele’s besides the chained CC?

Jerus.4350:

So I think that was why she found clerics to work out better in that the gap in healing power just pushed celestial out of being able to truly make things easier.

Except… celestial is tankier than zealots and only loses like 200 healing power but gets more more offensive stats. It didn’t work for her because she didn’t want it to work because she was married to the concept. Heck, if I paid what the cost of Zealots gear is, I would probably be married to the concept too.

Jerus.4350:

Maybe it’s person bias, but I’d love to see more discussion on helping new players and groups get into this content. “here is a way to make it easy” “here is a way that’s not optimal, but will make it possible to have a smooth consistent easy run”. Instead we berate that type of play.

Part of the problem, to be fair, is that it wasn’t presented as “here is a way for bad players to learn fractals and eventually move on to berserker” it is presented as “this is the best way to do fractals unless you’re sesshi.”

But again, my only real complaint is that she didn’t bother to min max her concept. Most of her videos she doesn’t come close to dying. Any point of defensive stat you didn’t need is lost damage. And when there are simple gear changes you can make to her build that increase dps massively and defense massively at the same time it makes me think she isn’t trying.

Chorazin.4107:

TexZero.7910:

As is healing power is already stupidly strong (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DKZ45a0VU) case made…. I’d love to see a zerker stand there and take it and not die.

This video is about 90% boon uptime and 10% healing power.

Yes, and healing power doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The total package of passive defense and active healing represents an extremely powerful mix. So suggesting a buff to healing without considering the total implications to the game is absolutely ridiculous.

In case anyone cares, Cat ran the numbers with her build setup vs the same build with Zealots as she recommends vs Celestial as I do…

https://gist.github.com/towelcat/237fe13a62378165c07d#file-2015-08-19_15-27-16-txt

as you can see, Celestial significantly tankier AND has better DPS. Which is exactly what I predicted. So when she said “celestial was worse” what is that based on?

I wanted your answer, which is why I asked. So yes, I was serious.

FWIW, I agree with you there is a lot of pseudo elitism in there, but I also agree that the entire thread was intended to be trollbait. I don’t know Skady personally, but I have to assume she knows exactly what the response would be and generating that response was the plan from the start.

dlonie.6547:

I appreciate the effort (and the shoutout :P), but are you sure you want to be the one to stand up and defend this community?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

better understanding of our community for the casual outsider, washing the name and beliefs that we are elitists jerks etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Healing-Guard-Q-A

Sometimes reputations are quite well earned.

Which post there would you point to as an example of jerk-ish elitism?

Skady.5916:

For starters: I tried celestial way back before June-23 patch when fractal trio was approx 2x harder and all I can say is NO. While it seems like this set will do “better job in every respect” in fact it does not. First of all it’s lacking power and DPS will be still bad, second of all your healing and tanking abilities will be kitten too and in fact you will not be able to act as a tank and a healer and you will be just acting as a bad DPS

It’s not worse. It’s better DPS and better EHP. These are facts. You can say it didn’t work as well for you, but thats anecdotal BS that has no bearing on the facts. You are coming to a conclusion first and post hoc justifying it. Simply put, if you want to advocate this playstyle fine, but at least take the time to min/max it so you are advocating for it correctly.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=36349

Ardid.7203:

In other words: full DPS builds should need heavy support allies to survive, full support builds should need DPS partners to progress through the content, while more mixed builds should have a far more easy time playing solo or in desorganized groups, altough less efficiently.

What, specifically, makes that more fun than the game currently? I would argue that, at best, it is equal to what we have now. It certainly isn’t objectively more fun than the current state of affairs.

You could argue, "it would be more fun for people who like to play pure support.*

I would respond, “it would be less fun for DPS people who prefer action combat and avoiding damage based on experience and skill.”

What this all comes down to are people who want the game system radically redesigned so their personal do-nothing red bars go up playstyle is useful. Too bad! Stop being so ridiculously selfish by asking for a massive redesign of a game enjoyed by millions so your own preferences are catered to.

You know what will make healing power better without having to redesign the game engine? Content so hard that party healing becomes important. OH THE HUMANITY!! How about instead of bashing your braincells together to think up these ludicrous schemes to shoehorn healing power into the meta, you advocate for new, challenging content that makes healing power part of the meta naturally?

Even if Torch is a weapon that only condi users would want… so? Warrior condi builds are bad in PvE and PvP right now hopefully Torch is what they need. Warrior direct damage builds, I’m certain, will have something interesting to gain from the traits and utility skills even if Torch isn’t their thing.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

A recurring problem seems to be: Some posters are convinced any form of healing change will introduce the full trinity, Which it will not. Not even partially

Actually, no one thinks that. That’s just a strawman argument for you to feel like you’re way smarter than everyone else.

The truth is the people against buffing Healing Power are the ones who are aware of how powerful it already is. Apparently unkillable god mode full tank builds aren’t ridiculously OP for you and you want them buffed further.

Thaddeus.4891:

NikeEU.7690:

Why Clerics instead of Celestial, which is better for the job in every respect?

How would it be better? Maybe the dps would be better, but the the amount of condition on that type of guard I doudt it. But the healing and toughness helping with agro would be smaller. I’m not saying that you are wrong, I’m just not sure.

You don’t need much Toughness to hold aggro in those cases against bosses where that matters. Even 200 extra Toughness is enough, and the Toughness difference. Healing Power is fairly unimportant in this build and should be sufficient.

HP with Clerics Armor: 439
Power With Clerics: 2612
Toughness with Clerics: 1315
Hit Points with Clerics: 11645
Crit Chance with Clerics: 35%
Condition Damage: 0
Crit Damage: 193%

HP with Celestial: 207
Power with Celestial: 2504
Toughness with Celestial: 1207
Hit Points with Celestial: 13715
Crit chance with Celestial: 44.62%
Condition Damage with Celestial: 207
Crit Damage with Celestial: 207%

Aggro will be the same, survivability will be at least as good with celestial armor, and damage will be much better with celestial.

Aetrion.8295:

You can’t point to any character that is currently considered to be powerful in high end PvE and nail it down to any such thing. They just all do everything and all in the same gear to boot.

Every character is Control, DPS and Support all in one. No dedicated roles was intended. Everyone contributes to everything. Sorry you don’t like Guild Wars 2!

edit: I love the comments like “HoT is looking to expand the type of characters that are useful in skilled groups.” Maybe so! But that leaves little hope for all the unskilled groups of ever beating the content. Then again, I’m sure everyone thinks they are in the “skilled” category…

Why Clerics instead of Celestial, which is better for the job in every respect?

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Dinks.2478:

Same conversation, different title. Support is already in the meta.

Let us see the current top META builds.

Staff Elementalist. Support = Blinds, CC, Might, Vulnerability, reflects/projectile destruction, condi removal/heal if needed.

Mace/Torch GS Guardian. Support = Blinds, Heals, Blocks, Reflects, Stability, Mobility, Quickness, CC, Fury.

Sword/Sword Sword/Focus Mesmer. Support = Boon stripping, reflects, Quickness, Slow, condi removal, stealth.

D/D S/P Shortbow Thief. Support = Stealth, Reflects, Blasting, CC, Blinds.

Phalanx Strength Warrior. Support = Banners, Might, Fury, Vulnerability, CC, 150 Additional Power to nearby party members, Instant res banner.

No Dinks That’s called Debuffing and Booning, and some general utility,

Support is more then Booning alone.

Translation: I don’t like the facts you introduced that counter my position, so I will re-define the terms in an extremely narrow way to suit my own case.

What’s the difference between a pug group with berserker gear, and an organized guild run in berserker gear?

Answer: It’s not DPS, it’s support. The organized group is much faster and smoother through the dungeon because they know how and when to bring the exact support they need for each encounter.

Thread should be retitled “How To Change Healing Power to Be More Useful but still not meta: turn it into boon duration”

Fox.3469:

Zerker is a result of the current corner stack and blast meta, wich me and my guilds don’t participate in, the game is actually quite fun and sometimes even challenging if you don’t do it. So basicly if you do this, please ignore this message.

Hi. Corner stacking hasn’t been a meta tactic for well over a year now since the FGS nerf. Good teams fight almost all bosses right where they spawn in the open. So basicly if you don’t know this, please don’t comment on PvE balance.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

Back in the days, people desperately tried to taxi into a TTS map to get their wurm loots and achievements.

Even further back in the day when Black Gate/Attuned were the only NA wurm killers TTS took an extra week or two to get their first wurm kill. Probably for the same reason that BG/Att took so long after Deso did it on EU: getting people to change their builds to actually contribute to the task at hand is a big leap when your guilds have literally no barrier of entry.

I would definitely agree that TTS or Attuned and whoever the world boss EU zerg guild is could probably put together a team of 8-15 really skilled players who would be just as good as any dungeon guild, but the question is can they do that and survive the ego related drama that comes with it? While dungeon guild players definitely have bigger egos on average, they are a bit more used to the “get your job done or gtfo” mentality.

And Ecori is right, it’s almost certain that in whatever content they introduce basic survival will be much more important than optimizing DPS, and the world first (assuming its actually challenging) will likely go to the team willing to adapt to that whether it means ranging bosses or wearing tanky gear.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

This is where you want to be in PvE. Not sure why you don’t want to run berserker gear, but this build will work in Knights gear too or a Berserker/Soldier mix if you absolutely must be tanky.

Here are the fundamental flaws in your build…

1. Shrug it Off: you don’t need this. Condis are not that prevelant in PvE, and you have Trooper Runes and tons of shouts as is. This is just adding utility that you genuinely don’t need since you’ll never be under that kind of condi pressure in PvE. This (weak) trait comes at the expense of Empowered Allies, which is one of the most powerful traits in the game.

2. Vigorous Shouts. You misunderstand what role warrior plays in PvE. Warrior is an offensive buff class. The most powerful things you can be doing: Phalanx Strength, Empowered allies, Banner of Discipline/Strength are all offensive buffs. Warriors are the gods of offensive buffs. Shouts heals are pitiful defensive buffs. You are playing to your weaknesses rather than your strengths.

3. Defense line. With gear that tanky, you don’t need any of these traits to survive. That said, even if you did your choices are puzzling. Dogged March doesn’t have a use in PvE. Enemies don’t snare you and train you to death like in PvP. Your build is overloaded with condition removal. I can’t fathom what this trait actually does. Most of the remaining trait choices are unnecessary defensive buffs. I don’t think I can think of any PvE encounters where Last Stand is going to be of big use for you.

TBH, my advice would be to run the PS metabuild but utilize whatever tanky gear you feel you need for survival.

If guilds like TTS can beat the content out of the box then it won’t be challenging.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

My hybrid stats follow a different path.

We can all only guess and marvel at the uniqueness of your particular snowflake.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

Like High Priest of Arah? Or Breach bosses? Or Vinewrath?

I’ve never seen those events go to time, except breach bosses when SW was new. It all depends on the tuning. If it’s actually “challenging” it will be challenging for 15 to bring enough DPS without dying. If 12 people can do it, at least initially, it will be a failure if the goal is “challenging.”

Jerus: if you can blast raid bosses out of existence before they spawn then the content is a failure.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

Well, then you need to practice hard so that 8 or 12 can make up the work of 15. It’s not like we have never lowmanned a content before.

True, but we never had content with dps check enrage timers either.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

Face rolling button mashers will always prefer zerker, those of us that know how to dodge a

Why would you need tanky stats if you “know how to dodge”? It’s quite the opposite, Berserkers have to learn to dodge because otherwise they go down constantly, people in full nomads can ignore things like dodging.

The biggest question I have is: will it be 8 or 10 player?

The no ICD Might on Crit is really important. Because of it, a Scholar Rune equipped warrior with Dumplings makes nearly as much Might as a Strength Rune equipped warrior with Truffle Steaks (or whatever). I don’t know if that first food has an ICD or not, but I suspect it does. If the Dumplings ever got the ICD nerfed or if they went up to like 1g each, I would probably just use DPS food + strength runes than try for an alternative boon duration food.

svensta.6945:

A fractal skin should have a price between 75 and 150 pristine fractal relics.
This is consistent with their drop rate, which is probably around 1%.

Drop rate is like 12% at level 50. So following your logic, they should cost between 7 and 15. Good deal.

Lar.1947:

Bohantopa.5729:

UKADAM.3910:

It was from 6 in the afternoon till I believe 3-4ish sometime in the morning, and I didn’t just do fracts in that time. There was smooth runs for fractal 50 for me. I’m not the best player and majority of the player base isn’t so 45 min was good in my eyes.

Which would make it 9 – 10 hours, so either you gave a wrong number of runs or greatly overestimated the minimum run time. At 10 hours and 18 runs total the average run time is ~33 minutes, easily in the realm of possibility, but it does not include looking for a group (especially in the middle of the night) nor anything else you did. So I’m doubting you even more now.

Jeez, whats wrong with people here? Fella brought a problem to your attention and you are discussing how probable is the case. Why would he make things up anyway? To get your pity, lol?

“What’s wrong with us” is that we have heard this story 1000 times in varying shades of believability. Most of the people on this forum pug quite often and almost none of the well spoken, experienced players can say that this occurs to them pretty much ever when they pug. So what’s wrong with us is most of us are sick of hearing about a fake phenomena that appears to only happen to people who can barely type coherently.

What most of us suspect is that this sort of thing happens once in a blue moon, but certainly not four times in one night. Most of us suspect that the OP plays the way he types, which is to say, horribly. Most of us suspect, if the story even has a grain of truth, the team he was pugging with was sick and tired of carrying him and booted him after repeated failures that can be attributed to him. Most of us suspect that he posted “four times in one night” in an attempt to make the “problem” seem more important and needing more immediate attention from Anet than it really is.

Lets say we all agree for a minute that healing power is weak (we don’t, though) does that necessarily mean it should be buffed? Just because something is weak doesn’t mean it should be buffed. Some things are intentionally weak because buffing them even a little would make them insanely OP.

So logically you have two problems.

1. You haven’t even tried to prove the point that Healing Power is weak. D/D ele proves how useful healing power is in PvP and full AFK dungeon solos in tank gear prove how powerful it is in PvE. So unless you prove it’s weak, you suggesting a fix to what isn’t proving to be broken. Cart before the horse.

2. Even if you somehow manage to establish that HP is weak, you then have to prove it deserves to be buffed. You’d have to prove that the game balance, playability and fun factor would all be increased with more powerful HP. This will be insanely difficult to do. Over the top healing would lead to PvP going back to the bunker meta which I don’t recall people particularly enjoying. Over the top healing would make PvE even more faceroll since 4x berserker 1x Zealot would only lose like 5% overall team DPS, but gain defensive invincibility. You’ll have a hard case to make.

I don’t believe you, sorry.