Guild Wars 2

No one is judging. The issue is you can’t replicate the rotation due to lag. No sorry there is no easier rotation that will do more dps if there was am easier rotation that did more dps that would be the benchmark rotation.

So your options are do an easier rotation that does slightly less dps. I told you exactly what to do; do a 6 burst rotation ending with FF. This will lose you less than 1k dps from benchmark. Since I already told this to you before please don’t ignore it again this time.

If tier 4 fractals are too hard for Astralporing.1957 or OP I would suggest trying tier 1 or 2 until you’re more comfortable. =)

Just play for 6 bursts per berserk if that’s your limitation with sword f1 being the last one. Not sure why the angst.

SkyShroud.2865:

Yea, but there is a like 5k to 6k dps difference just by missing out that one rotation =(
I was wondering if there’s any rotations that will provide a higher dps for high ping ppl like myself =(

It isn’t 5k difference. Hitting the 7th f1 consisterly is like a 1k difference. If you’re 5k off the benchmark you either underbuffed or doing a lot of other things wrong too.

Fractal lfg asking for rangers are just idiots considering that ele burst damage will kill every fractal boss faster than ranger.

Feanor.2358:

NikeEU.7690:

I’m not convinced at all there is this huge skill gap required to beat ele benchmark dps vs engie vs ranger vs thief.

As I’ve always said, regardless of the role or class you’re playing the first 90 to 95% of benchmark numbers are easy for almost any player to get. It’s that last bit that takes work and its true for every class except maybe hammer guardian. And I do mean work, you have yo out in a lot of practice for that last bit and it does t matter if it’s an ele or a ranger.

If the easy part of the ranger potential is the first 90%, then the easy part of a tempest one is the first 70%. The difference is huge, unless you’re looking at D/W build, which is the only one having a simple rotation. I don’t have statistically significant amounts of data, but every player in my group performs better on a condi ranger than on ele. I seriously doubt anyone has “worked” more on the ranger. I certainly haven’t. The build is simply much, much easier. You can’t talk your way around this fact.

Things aren’t facts just because you declare them to be based on the huge data sample of “my friends are bad at ele compared to ranger.”

Supz.9836:

For what its worth, its what made me pretty much quit GW2 (I have logged on occasionally but no where near as much as pre HoT, so sad because GW2 was meant to be the MMO without the grind) was so excited about HoT too.

Not sure why raiding changed anything for you since if you choose not to raid your experience remains exactly the same.

I’m not convinced at all there is this huge skill gap required to beat ele benchmark dps vs engie vs ranger vs thief.

As I’ve always said, regardless of the role or class you’re playing the first 90 to 95% of benchmark numbers are easy for almost any player to get. It’s that last bit that takes work and its true for every class except maybe hammer guardian. And I do mean work, you have yo out in a lot of practice for that last bit and it does t matter if it’s an ele or a ranger.

Just assume every group you join is using a dps meter unless you are told otherwise. The chance is that at least one person is so you should assume that and act accordingly.

Furthermore there is nothing “private” being observed by arcdps. It sees the skills you use which is public. It sees how much damage each attack hits the boss for, also public. It tracks fight time. Also. Public. From those three things it calculates your dps. Which part scares you?

Still looking for a Druid or Chrono main!

FrizzFreston.5290:

NikeEU.7690:

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

It’s a free forum. If ArenaNet wishes to close this discussion they are free to do so. Its not your job to moderate.

Not that I had any illussions of drawing any meaningful conclusions, btw.

I’m not trying to moderate I’m trying to encourage rational discussion. People are making speculative connections to lagging sales by blaming whatever their personal issues with the game are. There is no basis and no discourse worth having.

When one person says “sales are bad because raids because hot zones too hard because wvw because pvp seasons” they aren’t making a legitimate point because they have no data to back that up besides the imaginary dots they connected. Its not me moderating the discussion to point out that they are being silly and making baseless conjecture.

You don’t seem to get causality vs correlation. There were tons of chnages to the game with HOT. There is no reason for you to know which change was responsible for what. How can you be so sure it wasn’t mastery grind that turned players off? Or difficulty in getting new elite specs? You can’t so you default to your old grinding axe
It’s getting old you dont like raids you hate the game. We all get it.

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

Rednik.3809:

Aesa.4819:

Do you think wow was the only game with hard content? Hard content in GW1 was a big part of the game. The raid team in GW2 isn’t even that large, yet they do a fantastic job making the best quality content in the game IMO.

Isn’t “hard content in GW1” was almost completely soloable with the right AI party?

I’d say it’s fairly certain the Raids are played by a higher percent of players than the percent of total developer resources spent on them, therefore they should clearly increase the development resources creating Raids.

And I’d say it’s fairly certain that fractals got 2 “new” fractals over 3 years, while raids already got 4 wings, stuffed with new unique drops, titles and even their own unique legendary item class. You can see estimated percentages of players in gw2eff database, their data slice is quite big already. So, no, percentages of new content to the players playing it are not even slightly proportional.

You realize that aspirations sell even to buyers with no ability to achieve said aspirations?

What you miss is that when someone on r/mmo asks “does guild wars 2 have a good end game” is the answer is “no, they don’t have raids and the dungeons haven’t been updated since launch” that murders sales. If the general perception of gw2 end game is that there isn’t one it kills the game. This is what the game struggled with before HoT. Even if only 10% of players who try the game from r/mmo ever try raiding the fact is a good portion of them wouldn’t have played the game at all if raids didn’t exist.

This is no different than having a good pvp scene btw. If the general consensus in the greater mmo community was that gw2 pvp was complete garbage that hurts sales even for players who wouldn’t end up pvp-ing anyway. It’s good when what “everybody knows” about your game are positive things and complete features.

So yes even if only your made up numbers were accurate it still a good thing that raids exist because the existence of.raids sells boxes even to non raiders.

An mmo lost players after an expansion?! Shocking news! You guys really blew the lid off this scandal.

Maybe what you’re describing and searching for answers to is actually a totally normal situation for a 5 year old mmo to be in. Instead of looking for some solution or seeking to pin blame perhaps just accept that is about what revenues would look like regardless.

5% of players played the raids.

90% of players do T1 fractals.

This thread is full of made up numbers to support positions. Do you guys get satisfaction lying to further your agenda?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Raiding is, in fact, pretty much a loss making activity for the company, compared to other content. It’s consistently not interesting to the majority of players, no matter how hard the companies push to make it work. (eg: WoW, famed for “casual friendly” LFR, still has relatively low participation rates in raiding.)

This is also a mistaken view, though. The game is large enough and has enough varied game modes that no game mode can claim to please “a majority” of the players. By your definition, every game mode is a loss-leader. Obviously, I disagree. The game isnt successful when every game mode appeals to every player, it is successful when enough of the game appeals to every player to keep that player hooked.

Rednik.3809:

Guts.5019:

So what’s the point to make an EASIER mode than that ?

Because Anet is not a charity company. Easier mode will satisfy wider audience in comparison with current raid population, and hard mode will satisfy just a narrow part from current raiding population.
There is no reason to make hard mode.

T1 fractals are too hard. Anet could hit a wider audience if they made an easier tier of fractals.

Hey all. Still looking for one or two new faces to join the team.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Ryudnard.2587:

I hope Anet can find a way to make this content available to relatively new and weakly geared players as well.

Really, REALLY think about what you just said. If Anet tune the difficulty of raids to match new and poorly geared players, they are gonna become extremely easy to experienced and well-geared players.

This. Also think about it: this is END GAME content. You aren’t fully geared. You aren’t yet AT the end game. You’re still in character progression.

If you’re only there for ez loot you won’t find cm fun. The fun of cm isn’t the process of incremental improvement as you gain experience: it’s the joy and euphoria you get when you finally overcome the boss. Without the challenge and the difficulty you wouldn’t get that euphoric reaction to killing it. If you’re the type who doesn’t find joy in overcoming adversity Im sorry t9 say the content isn’t for you. And that’s fine, not everything can please everybody all the time.

Alga.6498:

Hello,

This has been mentioned quite alot but we never have got an actual answer of this.

We have gotten the answer but several peoplease who I consider to be extremely entitled don’t accept final answers on the subject. They are typical forum white knights: they all say that THEY have no issue with finding raid groups they are just looking out for the silent majority. Concern trolling is the term I believe?

Seyiwaji.4082:

lol, as if they have enough players to allow themselves to ban exploiters.

i remember how they used to ban people for less than kitten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMTmBrwmjf0

If you think exploiting the economy to make infinite gold is “less than” cheesing a boss for a meaningless title you need to stop a recalibrate for a minute.

Kill the bosses again.

The one to Rule.2593:

Yep, they failed yet again, what else is new

Who said the goal was to kill mirror comp?

It won’t have anything to do with buying anything new. It will be capturing something wit the heart like all the others.

You simply have to change your mentality. I’m central tyria you can attack and kill every mob you encounter except some champions. In hot you have to be more tactical and pick your battles. If you charge headlong into every mob you see you’ll be punished. You’re not in a tame civilized area you’re in a hostile jungle overrun by dragon minions. It shouldn’t take you more than a few deaths to realize that running away from fights in the jungle is often the best move. If you fail to learn this lesson ever that’s your fault for being stubborn or learning disabled.

Casual doesn’t mean bad so yes casual players could and should use berserker gear when appropriate.

Astralporing.1957:

NikeEU.7690:

lucadiro.4519:

I think you lose more damage from not using scholar runes than using marauder armor

Full marauder ele is like 12% less dps than berserker.

Flame legion runes are like 3% worse than scholar assuming 70% scholar uptime

What about strength runes (on a guard, hopefully hammer user), the ones OP mentioned?

Flame Legion would be much more dps than Strength for a Guardian, since they have decent burns. Strength is ok for symbol might generation, but when you play Radiance guard you lose out a bit compared to Flame Legion.

Astralporing.1957:

NikeEU.7690:

So we just have a different perspective on where to draw the line for “sorry you aren’t skilled enough.” I think the current raids are easy enough already, you don’t.

Pretty much this. Though i also think you may be simply unaware how high the current bar is (as you see it only in relation to yourself and your friends).

To be fair, I see “casual non raiders” who set records in adventures or jumping puzzles who have incredible micro skills that I definitely don’t have.

The difference between hardcore raiders isn’t mechanical skill or class knowledge it’s simply a willingness an ability to commit time and effort. Additionally there is a social component unless you are 100% pugging and a lot of people in video games are so socially maladjusted tgat they can’t handle being on TeamSpeak with other people.

If “my friends” have any particular skill tgat others don’t it’s willingness to fail repeatedly and willingness to make friends outside their comfort zone. Neither of those really have much to do with the actual playing of video games. Which is why, incidentally, I usually say that most barriers to raiding are self imposed.

lucadiro.4519:

I think you lose more damage from not using scholar runes than using marauder armor

Full marauder ele is like 12% less dps than berserker.

Flame legion runes are like 3% worse than scholar assuming 70% scholar uptime

Astralporing.1957:

NikeEU.7690:

Blaeys.3102:

There is no way a single version of the map is going to meet the gaming desires of all sides of this equation. Thus the need for tiered difficulty or some kind of scaling system (as a really bad example – give better rewards to 8 player groups that beat the content and lesser/almost no rewards for 12 player groups that beat it).

What would you say to low skill players for whom even the easiest reasonable difficulty represents too high of a challenge?

Ah, that entirely depends on what we would consider to be the easiest reasonable challenge. Personally, i really doubt that people unable to do even low tier fractals would be interested in raids. They might still be interested in legendary armor, which is why it should have an alternate acquisition method.

So we just have a different perspective on where to draw the line for “sorry you aren’t skilled enough.” I think the current raids are easy enough already, you don’t.

Blaeys.3102:

There is no way a single version of the map is going to meet the gaming desires of all sides of this equation. Thus the need for tiered difficulty or some kind of scaling system (as a really bad example – give better rewards to 8 player groups that beat the content and lesser/almost no rewards for 12 player groups that beat it).

What would you say to low skill players for whom even the easiest reasonable difficulty represents too high of a challenge?

Rednik.3809:

maddoctor.2738:

And adding a new difficulty won’t solve the “problem” of not finding groups for the normal/hard versions of the Raids. Unless that’s not the problem you want to solve.

So it is solving exactly same problem in other games, but will not solve it here. Okay.

I’m pretty sure it DOESNT solve the problem in other games. From my understanding from other games (DNT is a multi-game guild) most of the intro/easy mode raiders don’t matriculate up to harder difficulties. They do easy mode, get whatever they get out of that and stop raiding until next raid wing where they will do easy mode and stop again. The " real raiders" start at higher difficulties and don’t look back. There is very, very rarely a leap where a low experience casual raider starts in easy mode and works up to Nightmare mode. So no, it doesn’t solve any problem really. It just creates two separate communities.

Rednik.3809:

NikeEU.7690:

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

Community is literally forced to create training raid runs to prevent game mode from dying out due to the lack of fresh blood, thing that is literally unheard of in other raiding games.
If this situation looks normal to you and not like complete failure from raid development team to tune raid accessibility, then I dunno in which kind of imaginary world you are living.

So your example of something bein inaccessible is the mechanism by which they are made even more accessible?

Logic checks out!

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

[Quote]
and yes, ignore NikeEU. He’s currently right, but generally a troll. He actually managed to get his guild kicked out of raid testing because of it.[/quote]

I’m always right, ignoring my advice is a really bad policy.

I feel like I explained my position pretty thoroughly regarding support roles. If you still don’t understand it reread from the beginning.

I’m not harassing you. I don’t know you. Stop imafining yourself at the center of the universe.

There is no such role in gw2 raids as a person who waits around to give stability at key moments. Everyone is expected to play their normal role and contribute utility as well.

And yes, I do look down on support a dedicated role. In traditional mmo it stands for casters who sit safely in the back casting buff skills listening to calls. It’s traditionally where you stick the lowest skilled players in the group.

Luckily in gw2 the healers are expected to dps too. The tank is expected to provide tons of buffing as well as tanking. The dps classes are expected to contribute their unique utility functions as needed. So again, there isn’t a dedicated do-nothing support role.

druid. Chrono. Warrior.

In gw2 raiding there are no dedicated buff bots who sit at the back and spam buffs and can get carried through content on the low skill support role. Even the “support classes” like warrior and mesmer are expected to contribute.

Unfortunately even if you sacrifice all team utilities and focus on pure dps your damage will still be about 30% less than an Elementalist or thief.

NikeEU.7690:

Concentration sigil is a good idea. I wasn’t considering it.

Strength runes 45
Nature magic 20
Concentration 33

98% should be good.

Fwiw I was thinking…

Strength runes 45
Plat dubs 24
Nature 20
Bountiful stones 10

To get 99%.

Sigil of concentration is almost certainly better though.

Concentration sigil is a good idea. I wasn’t considering it.

Strength runes 45
Nature magic 20
Concentration 33

98% should be good.

Rednik.3809:

maddoctor.2738:

What in the world are you talking about? Anyone and everyone can indeed get any WvW or PvP reward without putting any kind of effort, their reward systems are designed so you don’t need to actually be good at those game modes to be rewarded.

You said that the same is true for Raids because you can buy the raid kills. However it’s people like you who say that a very tiny minority is raiding, and a small portion of that tiny minority is selling Raid kills. So we are talking about a small fraction of a tiny minority. How is that tiny amount of players who are getting the Raid kills through an easy method devaluing the “prestige” of Raids?

Discussion originally started when you tried to make a statement that raids are actually require higher skill than pvp modes, and tried to prove it by comparing most basic level in them with most advanced level in PvE. Which is kinda hilarious.
Can you say that qT/DnT/SC/etc cant actually win in official ESL world cup in spvp? Or defeat some top guild like old RG in wvw clash? I don’t think so.

I can’t speak for every pve raiding guild but I know for a fact that there are people in dnt and qt who were/are pro level pvpers in other games. Don’t mistake a lack of interest or dedication with a lack of skill.

The biggest issue is this comp is very inflexible. Your druids are locked into sword horn. In many fights the meta strategies require off hand axe, for example. For many fights it will be trying to fight a square peg into a round hole.

So if you are designing a contest of what comp can kill the 10m hp golem fastest it’s worth looking at but in practice you’ll find that more often than not you are better off with the traditional meta builds for the specific reason that they are more flexible.

Oh look the same crew who say easy mode raids are needed are the same ones who now are saying legendary armor ismy even special anyway.

Whatever helps you guys rationalize away your shortcomings works, right?

Meta power ps build.

After looking deeper the might stacking druid does enable an alternative and viable comp but there are big ways to improve what the OP is doing.

First, the third dps should be replaced with a full dps condi berserker warrior to bring banners and ea (if using eles) and still make very good dps.

Second only one druid should be minstrel and that one tanking. The second druid should be berserker with strength runes and exotic trinkets and platinum dubloons to lose as little dps as possible from that.

All said? The dps is roughly equal to current meta. It’s certainly not higher. It’s probably not worth the druid and the warrior re gearing just to end up at the same place as we are already especially since this comp loses versatility on the druid weapon and pet choices and warrior build choices.

Stop arguing about it and go prove it.