Guild Wars 2

It’s not a bug, and it’s always been this way. If you want the long answer…

The game engine applies buffs in a particular order. When you have a trait, skill or food that converts a % of X stat into Y stat the engine looks to see the value of X after adding up gear, infusions and food. The stats from signets are applied AFTER the game has already made this calculation.

Axe attack speed boosts are dumb because they dont stack with quickness and in raids you’ll have perma-quickness. Simply put the axe auto attack chain needs a massive damage boost.

Zenith.7301:

Azoqu.8917:

Zenith.7301:

3 years we had before the xpac came out, 3 years of elementalist stacking. Raids come out, more elementalist stacking. That’s 4+ years of encounter design favoring elementalists, so I doubt that will change unless it’s hamfisted like fractals and then we just see engineers and necromancers stacked instead.

Someone forgot about the 4 warrior 1 mesmer CoF runs that were huge back in the day. Also the fact that elementalist was trash for the first year of the game.

Elementalist was never trash the first year. Only idiots believed warrior was better.

You know, sorta like how people were stacking engineers and revenants when wing 1 of the raid came out, and now they’re barely used classes.

Actually Elementalists were trash first year. Were you there? I was. I don’t remember a good ele build being used in the community until Kitsune made the Lightning Hammer build.

And guess what? LH build, even after people appreciated it had super high DPS, wasnt meta because…

Persisting Flames didn’t give Fury yet until it was buffed. Without access to Fury, people were still required to stack For Great Justice to get perma Fury. That meant that, at best, 1 ele could fit into a group.

Before Persisting Flames? Before Lava Font had 95% uptime? Before Fresh Air? Before Lightnign Whip buff? Before people used FGS/Ice Bow? Ele was actually bad.

Shovel Face.4512:

cuz I wanted something different lol.

The guy who kicked you from the team wanted something different than you. When two peoples’ wants compete, the one with the leverage wins. Tough luck.

It really stinks that anet blind sided the community with the LI requirement for armor. Granted they have been dropping for the last 9 months after boss kills and granted they say right on them you will need them for legendary armor, but it’s not fair that they blindsided us. Who among us could possibly have expected it would take so many? yes, I am aware anet said youd have to raid regularly to have enough, but this still came as such a shock!

If only, when Spirit Vale came out 9 months ago, there had been a way to know we would need these.

They should lower the LI requirement to 6. One per piece. This way I can do Wing 3 escort for the next 1.5 months and get my legendary armor. This seems fair to me. anyone who disagrees with my proposal is an elitist and probably got inside info from anet on how many we would need.

reikken.4961:

Fay.2357:

all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

No, I’ve tested it. They are additive. Damage modifiers of the same type are added together first. For example, +damage and +critical damage (found on some thief traits) are multiplied, but +damage and +damage are added.

This is incorrect.

Air sigil on staff ele? Force/Accuracy please.

Nozome.7853:

If you pay thousands of gold to buy runs for LI , shouldnt you meet the requirements to easily join a pug? Or are you getting kicked after a few tries?

No, because the part of the story where they “tried to find a group for hours and hours” is completely fabricated.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Dinosaurs.8674:

I’m pretty sure that 50% chrono + rev is better damage than 100% chrono + DPS.

This is correct. Nike checked this recently in another thread and showed that a Chronomancer with a Superior Sigil of Concentration (33%) and boon duration food (20%) boosted by a Revenant is consistently more damage than a Commander gear Chronomancer and a DPS class.

Fennec made a good point to me that against large hit boxes, that is not necessarily true. Against, say Gorseval or KC or sloth you are better with another staff ele.

Blaeys.3102:

Make your arguments against the points people are making instead of directly at those people. It makes for a better discussion.

I’m not making any argument. I think the whole thread is silly and I’m not offering any position on the issue. So yeah, not making an argument. I’m pointing out the fallacious nature of your non-points.

A good tip is to go back after writing a post and look for any directed statements or the word “you.” Make sure those sentences are respectful, non-accusatory and further the conversation.

I am being intentionally accusatory because you’re being unintentionally fallacious.

How many times do I have to state “this is my opinion” before what I write is recognized as my opinion? Having to respond to accusations directed at me personally is not a productive furtherance of the topic at hand – it leads to squabbling and infighting rather than actual friendly debate.

There is no debate. Why? Primarily, again, because I’m not taking a position.

Here is why “stating this is my opinion” isn’t a defense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Since my previous post wasn’t blunt enough I’ll explain it very simply here. Your conclusion assumes the initial point. You start out with the unproven assumption that an easy mode is necessary and beneficial as the status quo is a failure. Since these are, again, unproven assumptions your conclusions and suggestions based on them are not necessary to be considered. No one needs to “debate” your suggestions because they are based on a faulty premise.

Maybe your premise is actually correct and your suggestions have some sort of merit. Or maybe not. It isn’t mine or anyone else’s job to consider them until you demonstrate why. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not every opinion is entitled to equal consideration.

Blaeys.3102:

I think the question is oversimplified, so here is the oversimplified answer I would give -

Raids, in particular, need an easy mode to open the experience and fun to a wider group of players.

Again, this is an opinion statement offered as a fact.

It isn’t self-evident WHY raids MUST reach a wider audience? It isn’t an accepted fact. They dont HAVE to do anything. They only HAVE to do what Anet wants them to do. You assume that hitting the widest possible audience is the best possible outcome. This is not a given. It could easily be argued the opposite is true. Since the opposite could easily be true, when you make statements saying “X must happen or Y will be a failure” it isn’t possible to take them seriously.

Blaeys.3102:

I think the big issue with raids in GW2 is that they really do not fit in with the rest of the PVE content – and it doesn’t make sense from a community/resource perspective to have them stand alone.

Subjective opinion.

To fix that, Anet is going to have to either make them more accessible baseline (which I don’t think is the best solution), do away with future raiding completely (again, not a great solution), or go with a tiered difficulty model.

It’s weird to suggest a fix for a problem you haven’t established yet as a problem.

Why raids need tiered difficulties

As others have said, GW2 is not a raiding game, but that doesn’t mean that raids cannot be an engaging part of the game. They just have to implement them in a way that fits cohesively (and logically) with the rest of the PVE experience in GW2. As much as some people (and probably even some developers) don’t want to hear it, that has to include accessibility and scaled difficulty/rewards.

As others have said, GW2 is a raiding game, which means that raids are engaging part of the game. They have implemented them in a way that fits cohesively with the rest of the PvE experience. As much as some people (dobt call them casuals!) don’t want to hear it, raids are already accessible and rewards are trivial to obtain.
____

See how easy it is to make bold, declarative statements that sound like an argument but in fact are just opinionated, subjective and meaningless? Just because you state things definitively doesn’t make them actually true.

Why other games included tiered raiding
As far as the comparison to other games, the move to include lesser difficulties didn’t kill raiding in any of those games. Easy mode in many of those games was just a formality. Due to gear and level treadmills (again, not a fit for GW2), every raid since day one of those games eventually had an easy mode. All the easier modes did was let those people in a little earlier. The exception was flex mode raiding, which was introduced to let different sized groups of friends play together – and, ironically enough, was probably based on concepts from – and the success of – GW2.

I agree, we need a hard mode of raids. The existing baseline Easy Mode is trivial to organized groups. The fatal flaw in your entire premise is that the baseline of raids is already hardmode. The developer intention is that GW2 raids are BELOW Mythic/nightmare etc difficulties in other games. We already have the easy mode. Guess your point is moot right?

Regardless, this needs to happen or we will see the game community become more and more fractured as time goes on, which isn’t good for atmosphere and future success of the game (not saying the game will fail – just that it is changing in some negative ways).

Big games can support multiple communities. The ESL pvp community and the elite raid guild community have very little connection. There is no proof or real argument offered that that this is inherently bad. You simplistically state that it is without actually marshaling any sort of case for it.

Stop making posts where you disguise your subjective opinions in declaratory tones as if they were obvious facts.

As the title says. There is no place or time where you can complete this item. If this is intended or requires unreleased content please advise, otherwise flag it as a bug.

BlackDragon.3752:

Would be nice if the volcanic can get approved btw.

Time for another meeting!

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Does the Rev actually have better PvE heals? I’ve not bothered with the Rev much at all, so I honestly don’t know.

~EW

Yep. Rev has an instance cast Defiant Stance that lasts a second longer and has a 10 second shorter cool down. And then another heal on swap if that isn’t enough.

STIHL.2489:

Now, most Elitism, specifically PvE elitism, stems from players being deceptive about wanting harder content when in reality they simply want better rewards for themselves, and then make a fuss to the devs that they should have harder content, but what they really want is something they think they are good enough to get, while no one else is, and to ensure this goal, they become total jerks about who they run with, to ensure that the scripted encounters remain trivial to them.

Now, this is not good for a games community, …

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But hey, you did a good job of knocking down the strawman, so kudos to that I guess.

In PvE rev has much better healing than warrior? Not sure where “sustain” comes into the picture.

If both players execute perfectly and use best in slot everything, and use the same buffs, Rev is approximately 10% better dps.

STIHL.2489:

Thank you for proving my point, it’s all about that loot.

Why do I clear both wings 4 times a week if I only get loot for the first one?

The advantage of condi at mattias is that for necro and warrior at least, condi = ranged. And Ranged is very effective in the final phase when staying tight melee on him is harder. it isn’t that condi > power its that ranged > melee in the final phase.

Best pug set up IMO…

2x condi ps warriors
4x condi necros
1x full heal drui
1x full healway staff water camp ele
1x hammer guard or Rev
1x commander mesmer if guard, berserker if Rev

Set up like…

1: War, Druid, Necro, Necro
2: War, Necro, Necro, * Guardian
3: Mesmer/ * Rev
4: Ele

No excuse to die to pretty much any mechanic with that comp. Condis wont touch you, everyone is very tanky, over the top healing + prot.

also, Last Blaze is garbage. Smash Brawler is significantly better DPS in a real raid group.

STIHL.2489:

NikeEU.7690:

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine.

Go read the other posts.. yah.. you are.

We don’t care what you choose to do.

If you really didn’t care, you would not spend all your effort trying to attack the people who don’t like the change instead trying to talk about how excited you are for the change among people that agree with you. Both kinds of people exist on this topic, so why are you only talking to one of them?

No, I’m trying to get criers to stop crying. I don’t really care at all who plays or doesn’t play the raid. I’m not invested in the outcome of whether or not some random person plays the raid or doesn’t. All I would like is the completely out of proportion reaction from the Tear Force Complaint Squad to end. The forums encourage endless complaints from completely myopic individuals with no sense of what they are not entitled to.

Also it’s not a “change.” Every wing of the raid so far has required HoT masteries to get passed at least one boss.

katz.8376:

NikeEU.7690:

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. “i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points”) you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

well. see… the problem i’m having is i’m saying "i don’t really like wine at all. i just drink it occasionally with my friends. i prefer rum and coke. but now my favorite bar down the road told me “yeah, now to get that wine you have to do 5 pushups and 5 jumping jacks first, then i’ll serve you the wine.” no, it’s not that hard to do the minor task required to get the wine, but since i never really liked the wine to begin with, it’s trouble i’m not willing to put myself to… so i thank him for letting me know, and i now ignore the wine and go back to happily drinking my rum and coke. everyone else is flipping out around me saying “WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T LIKE WINE, YOU UNCULTURED SWINE!!!!” yeah. that makes me want to go drink the wine. sure

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine. We don’t care what you choose to do. all we want you to do is not make mountains out of molehills with these QQ posts about how much you dislike getting leyline gliding. This is the most minor issue imaginable being blown to epic proportions by people who would be best off remaining quiet.

STIHL.2489:

Equally so, someone else should not tell me I need to enjoy some other kind of wine.

That metaphor doesn’t work. The restaurant (anet) offers a selection of wines. You as the consumer can either order from what they have or choose not to have wine with your meal.

What people are doing in this thread is berating the restaurant for not offering the specific vintage they want by posting incredibly whiney (no pun intended) reviews on Yelp.

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. “i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points”) you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

I wasn’t hoping for an argument. I was hoping for you to post what you posted. What I hoped for and what I expected were pretty different.

jheryn.8390:

o far, no HoT mechanic is necessary for any other part of the raid and people have come to expect that.

Since this is demonstrably wrong, would you care to walk back your point? Or will you post-hoc rationalize it away? I’m curious to see how you react to this!

So what? this build has been around since October 2015. 25k dps with full buffs even even good dps.

Absurdo.8309:

This argument seems more theoretical than practical.

Creating and responding to hypothetical fake problems is just another form of concern trolling. On reddit these type of things get downvoted to oblivion, here they just go on forever.

Blanche Neige.7241:

I miss the good old time when one of the selling points of this game was “play the way you like”.

Now it’s more and more “play the way Arenanet want”.

How upset were you that Gorseval required updraft gliding? On a scale of 1 to 10 with a 1 being finding out they are bringing back Firefly and a 10 being your mom catching you clomping to my little pony please advise us.

Abricalio.1584:

My drop rate is is 0 for a sample size of approximately 22 days. That is significant,

Actually, it isn’t technically significant.

10% from seaweed > Dragons Breath Buns assuming 100% movement time.

Since a ban on legendaries couldn’t be enforced even if it was a rule, there is no sense in having it as a rule.

Extra power is stronger but an amount you won’t be able to notice like less than 1%.

Depending on the fight you can also use Dragon’s Breath Buns. It’s really strong at Sloth, Trio, Sabetha.

Furajir.3815:

I’m sorry man, but, both of those builds are horrendous. You don’t even have Defense which includes the new AH which is basically the meat and potatoes now, not taking it would mean severely gimping yourself. Try either of these.

Build 1: Uses RR+Savage Instinct for stun breaks and heals.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAneRnMdAVhgdhAmkCElilrATJH06qBIBgEQq7d0WaXtA-TVCHwAEOCA9V/pz+DAV+B4BAM4QA8UJYhTAQY9BBAQAuZb2m3MwQH6QH6QHa3co3co38mlCIwtWA-w

Build 2: Built to sustain more condi pressure with smash brawler and Cleansing Ire
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAneRnMdAVhgdhAmkCElilqATpHE7yBIFgGQA4d0maftA-TVCHwAEOCA9V/Boyvw6DGcIAeqEswJAAwDAoz+DbGEAGRCw//fzzTkCIwtWA-w

Hope this helps.

Edit: Sorry if this is for pve just use the PS metabattle build.

These are PvE builds dude.

The first build. Accuracy sigil is really bad on a Berserker. Your CPS has to be really really high for Accuracy to overtake Air in any profession, and Warrior isn’t anywhere close to that line. Also note that accuracy is 7% crit chance and not 147 Precision so the second build loses a bit of crit damage from Blood Reaction relative to the first build.

Also, don’t use Seaweed Salad on a Berserker. It doesn’t work with 100b or Rush. Overall pretty bad.

The deceptive part is the full Berserker / Accuracy build will likely get bigger numbers on skills like 100b but overall lower dps because you’re losing air sigil which has a very easy to miss damage floater.

Edit: your first build has too much Assassins gear. Since Seaweed Salad is a no-no, you can swap the armor pieces back to berserker and use Truffle Steaks or SNS Butternut Squash.

Condi warrior barely does more DPS than Power. The benefit of a condi build is the fact that it is ranged condi damage for fights where that can be relevant (VG, Mattias). If you don’t NEED condi or dont NEED ranged, there is no advantage.

Warrior isn’t a DPS class. It hasnt been a DPS class since 2013. Acceptance is the first step.

Are the qT #’s accurate? Yes, relative to each other.

“Growing concern”

Based on the relative post volume on this subject, the concern for this topic is at an all time low.

After all this complete and utter nonsense, I still doubt that a nomads druid would even get kicked from a group. sure, magi’s is marginally better DPS for a healing druid, but I don’t see why Nomad’s wouldn’t be acceptable. Especially in Wing 2 where there is no Toughness based tank mechanics its basically the exact same as Magi’s. I said before this smells like trollbait and it probably is.

These Bai Long posts are so long, so rambling and cover so many of the predictable tropes we see from people who complain about nothing relevant that I am forced to conclude that this is yet another attempt to post inflammatory rhetoric in order to start arguments. There is a word for that, but if I use it my post will be infracted.

Since a lot of the groups I see selling raids are doing 8 man kills using 2 pure magi’s healers, I don’t believe your nomads gear would be a detriment to clearing the raid before the enrage timer. My guess is that there are other issues preventing you from clearing the raid.

Valik Shin.9027:

So probably a not a huge dps different but wouldn’t arms edge out tatics if we don’t need the might or empower allies? Yes empower is gonna be a modified with tactic but arms has some bleeds with extra condi damage that you could pair with toxic sharpening stones. Also have blood lust modified and some ferocity via signet mastery/ blood reaction combo

In a raid setting 5+ boons is the norm. That makes Empowered 1% damage per boon better than attack of opportunity’s 5%. the bleeds are worth around 200 DPS, which isn’t nothing, but it isn’t as potentially good as Empowered. The real selling point of Arms would be Furious, but since the adrenaline bar fills so fast it isn’t as awesome as it was before HoT when you needed it to burst on cool down.

If you’re going ham on the dps golem with like 11 or 12 boons Empowered is light years better.

Crash.5362:

NikeEU.7690:

None more. The max dps warrior build is the exact same as meta PS.

Sorry, but thats not true.

It is.

-> Since Rune of Strenght wouldnt be necessary (Assuming there’s already a PS warrior in the party generating might, or some other class capable of.), a Max Dps warrior could use Runes of the Schollar instead, which generally gives a +5% damage and +some ferocity in comparison to the previous, as long as you’re able to not get hit.

Meta is already scholar runes. I was assuming scholar runes since that is the meta.

-> Assuming there’s already a PS Warrior in the party, the Max dps wouldnt need to use the banners. In replacement being able to pick skills that could increase his damage output (Signet of Might, for instance, for a +180 power, or even Frenzy for extra atk speed.)

OP specifically stated he had to bring banners. If he didn’t I would ofcourse say to bring Signet of Might. In fact, you could bring Dolyak Sig in your third slot, use the consumable that converts Toughness to Power and get an extra 7 power out of that instead of bountiful sharpening stones.

Also, on the Greatsword, instead of Sigil of Strenght the warrior could run some other sigil to further increase his damage output.

Force/Air is already meta. Strength sigil is not meta.

I know what you’re trying to say. PS Warrior and Max dps warrior (If we’re talking about power warrior) are pretty much the same, and thats true. But the max dps warrior can and should deal slightly more damage, probably around 10% extra dmg.

See above. Strength rune + sigil is not meta so I didn’t have to account for it.

Also, in regards of what was asked, regardless of necessity, DODGING (as in rolling) is actually part of the proper Warrior rotation thanks to the “Stick and move” trait, that grants us +10% damage while our endurance isnt full, so if you’re looking to max out your dps your endurance shouldnt ever be full and you should find a way of including a roll in the middle of your rotation (Which doesnt hurt the dps either, since we deal damage when rolling.)

this part is correct.

None more. The max dps warrior build is the exact same as meta PS.

Vargamonth.2047:

Rev DPS is considerably higher than Warrior’s, but Warrior provides a much higher party wide stat bonus than Rev, which in the end results on higher total DPS and thus, a preferred choice (might stacks can be handled with a Herald and a Chrono).

Warrior: 20 might, EA, Banner of Strength + Disc = 1430 stats
Rev = 5 might, AP, Fury, Facet of Nature = 1470 stats

fishball.7204:

reikken.4961:

revenant is fine
brings massive breakbar utility, useful boons, party ferocity bonus, and decent dps (similar to engi/necro/guardian, higher than warrior, lower than ele/thief)
I don’t see the problem

Warrior has lower DPS than rev? I thought even PS war out dps’d the rev nowadays.

A PS warrior with full buffs gets roughly the same DPS against the golem as a revenant with just the meta buffs.

People say that warrior DPS is ok to be low because of how much buffing they do. I suppose then that Druid heals should be nerfed by that same logic.

If PvE isn’t fun to you anymore, stop playing it. And stop getting into arguments on forums about things you don’t enjoy.

I can’t make you do these things, ofcourse, but since you’re very high on your 17 years of life experience I thought I would add some helpful life advice from my experience. You’ll be happier in the long run if you limit your interaction with upsetting things.

I think if I was really dissatisfied with the pugging experience I would take steps to not have to pug. If only there was an entire subforum of guilds looking for players to take part in daily static fractal groups…