Guild Wars 2

Sophia Aeon.6385:

Guys, I see very few of you understood the meaning of my question which was more rhetorical, and which was designed to Arena Net rather than WVW players. I note also that even fewer have carefully read my explanation as Piken Square had no reason to be put in the same bracket with our servers.

They simply can’t resist copy/paste same l2p BS, whatever the question
Most only notice “i have problem with…” in wvw section of forum, and c/p
their “wsidom”

Pelto.9364:

Game which has immediate access to any gear/traits/skills would be nice. Any build can be used. Then WvW/PvP would only be about l2p.

GW2 is close. I stopped ESO at level 5 or so; just boring to level up. And my char looks ugly old women instead of a beauty what I have in GW2.

Also, dont forget free IWIN button…I mean, why bother at all?

displayname.8315:

Game is much better when l2p. A lot of people did and fights were good.. then HoT hit now its just PvE rallybots for the most part.. so yeah numbers win unless you learn things like positioning, buffing, builds, sustain, timing your skills ect…

Kinda funny watching the few straggler guilds just wreck pug zergs

Where? One T1 US server pug mapblob consistently beat another T1 US server, no matter skill or anything

We on DAOC Tristan server once built 20 rams on Hibernia relic keep…Mythic put cap of max 3 rams next day…then again, if you’re outnumbered in GW2, it doesn’t matter anyway.
Even Croats built better keeps than gw2 devs

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2V4BX0FNNjY/maxresdefault.jpg

If abilities are on timer, what can macro do for you that you cant do same (and very probably better because stuff could go wrong from start for you and your macro continues casting abilities that make no sense anymore) just manually using abilities?

Aeolus.3615:

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Thats why both AOE and DD skills in DAOC had their place…skilled 8vs8 combat was almost solely based on DDs, while group still had chance against zergs because single mezz spell would make whole zerg “zzz”, then your casters would just AOE them to the ground

Added bonus was “deathspam”, people could see in chat log who killed whom, even made creative names to add to the fun, like

……. was killed by Hisowngrp

……. was killed by Overextending

……. was killed by Youcankeepthearrow

It was VERY good way to make game more social

Another good incentive to NOT zerg in DAOC was reward system…you would get rewarded based on amount of damage your group of 8 did (so zerging was VERY inneffective for realm points gain, and mostly used by either unskilled people, or during relic raids).

Aeolus.3615:

Gw2 isnt daoc :\ i played daoc as well, altough not much as i wanted at that time.

Still in gw2 the enemy eles would eat up your 5-8 eles/aoe classes as well, since gw2 isnt daoc, you could not cant stand all the aoe hitting you as well, what would happen would be, yous guys cast 1 or 2 skills, dodge dodge and go down, reason allmost all cleave skills had to go, within that trade, so theres less “splash damage” from cleave and that could give a chance for the 5-8 aoe classes to kite.

(note)
Still we need to talk with what we have toi play not with the IF’s game did this or that, we need to discuss what can be done to achieve a good AOE skill cap(wich i assume what is the topic about), with the current system/game were playing.

Whatever the solution, it will be open for abuse/exploits/nervous breakdowns, just like any other MMO. Anet could, for example, make that if enemy has 80 people in zone, and you have 10, make that your AOE hit 8 people, and theirs hit just one

But I’d expect people be VERY angry at afk-ers in their own team

Aeolus.3615:

(EDIT) those 5 elementalist could not do a thing since the enemy zerg would have like alot of aoe classes and tons of skills that cleave, if they split, they would get cought asap witough problem, if they stack, would had the same result.

And sorry for the bad english.

Check video I posted here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-players-zerg-and-why-it-will-not-go-away/first#post6472179

Junkpile.7439:

I play 19/1/31 destruction warlock.

I don’t see that class listed on destro side

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Career

Junkpile.7439:

You can always try l2p in gw2 or go play games where gear give you advantage.

Theres nothing to learn….you can’t learn how to mapblob, you either have numbers or you don’t have numbers, lol

We’re doomed to continue like this, I think its impossible to do some real redesign of a flawed system…only way around this would be if we would have enough population to have queue on all maps 24/7, then noone could claim another side has advantage

RodOfDeath.5247:

Nikola.3841:

Reaper Alim.4176:

Seems to me that all of yall are actually having fun just being able to stack servers. Then completely carelessly kill your enemies by out blobbing them down, with effort or expectation of counter play. So again yes you will absolutely hate ESO. Skill, gear, and tactics, win against numbers in ESO. You have been warned not to try this game. But if you do just get ready for that one to 4 month Champion Point system grind, get ready for the month of gear grinding, get ready for that looking a guides time to optimize your skills and builds, just to begin to compete with some of the more dedicated PvPers of ESO. ZOS is making the game more and more of, your carefree skill-less numbers will not save you type of game.

It actually took about a year to ding 50 on my first character in DAOC
And let me not start about crafting there

Sounds like your dedication and skill means something in these other games. GW2 is practically handing out everything for free, there’s no sense of…..difficulty?

You had to craft for about 800 hours to reach max level in some DAOC crafts, I think…then again, you’d become sort of a star at game release if you were able to construct ram on the field, alone

Fay.2357:

Nikola.3841:

Fay.2357:

That’s not a definition of “best defense”, that’s a definition of “20+ people too stupid to press 1 in the general direction of the thief.”

Actually they do it, until someone shouts “hey look, he’s 2700 units away, how he did that?”

After that happens 10 times in a row, noone bothers anymore, ask those 2 thieves, 1 from XOXO and another from TIME, I think they play on Maguuma

Uh yeah, I’m thinking what you’re seeing is a PEBKAC issue and not so much a “thieves are op” issue.

Well of course…I didn’t say ALL thieves can do that, but it seems its not that hard…how hard is to hit stealth and fire shortbow 5 three times?

Reaper Alim.4176:

Seems to me that all of yall are actually having fun just being able to stack servers. Then completely carelessly kill your enemies by out blobbing them down, with effort or expectation of counter play. So again yes you will absolutely hate ESO. Skill, gear, and tactics, win against numbers in ESO. You have been warned not to try this game. But if you do just get ready for that one to 4 month Champion Point system grind, get ready for the month of gear grinding, get ready for that looking a guides time to optimize your skills and builds, just to begin to compete with some of the more dedicated PvPers of ESO. ZOS is making the game more and more of, your carefree skill-less numbers will not save you type of game.

It actually took about a year to ding 50 on my first character in DAOC
And let me not start about crafting there

Fay.2357:

That’s not a definition of “best defense”, that’s a definition of “20+ people too stupid to press 1 in the general direction of the thief.”

Actually they do it, until someone shouts “hey look, he’s 2700 units away, how he did that?”

After that happens 10 times in a row, noone bothers anymore, ask those 2 thieves, 1 from XOXO and another from TIME, I think they play on Maguuma

Fay.2357:

Nikola.3841:

Because of initiative mechanic, thieves are probably only class that would benefit using macros…making it funny, since they also have best dps, best defense and best mobility

But actually not. They…don’t have the best dps? They…don’t have the best defense? They do have the best mobility though.

Aside from that however, the initiative mechanic doesn’t make thieves benefit more from macros in any way. In fact if anything it makes them more likely to screw things up with a macro if their enemy actually responds to the scripted attack sequence at all.

What class can allow been pure zerker, and still have enough survivability do disengage if things go wrong? And how is not dodging 90% time, plus stealth plus easily running away not best defense? Of course I didn’t mean lots of vitality and toughness as “best defense”. I see thieves in wvw trolling 20+ people without been killed, how is that not definition of best defense?

Because of initiative mechanic, thieves are probably only class that would benefit using macros…making it funny, since they also have best dps, best defense and best mobility

Reaper Alim.4176:

Nikola.3841:

Here, big zerg can just stack on top of each other, press 111111 and win

In DAOC, your 30 people doing that would be mezzed and PBAOED down in about 3 seconds by competent group of 8 (my best ever is killing 96 with 8 in less than 10s, btw)

Check at 1:10, 1:40 etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI250gU4Ct8

So its just about game design

This still happens in non casual skill based MMORPGs of todays time. Here I’ll post a video for you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gVIftIeAdw

The only reason why zerging is the only playstyle in GW2 is simple. It just the direction the devs went with their HoT expansion. Can’t have groups of 50 plus bads upset at the fact they got outplayed by 8 people. So ANet just make sure that it’s not possible.

GW2 is the most brainless zerg friendly game on the market. ANet make bank off of this point more so then anything else. Only MMORPG on the market where one just don’t have to work to be good, one can just either exploit leader boards with no recourse, or one just have to stack servers and hide in a blobs of 50 plus people and bam instantly gets rewarded.

DAOC is still around, too
I guess its not a coincidence that Matt Firor from Mythic is the main guy behind ESO.
Just bad luck for me that GW2 came out before ESO, I guess, really have not enough time to start another MMO

Fay.2357:

DAOC had an engine/game/general server load that was far far lighter. GW2 is a drastically more complex and heavy game than DAOC. Additionally, GW2 is essentially a hack on top of the GW1 engine which makes it even harder for servers to run it efficiently.

A new game that was built from the ground up with the intention of having that sort of high through-put netcode and server efficiency could probably handle it. GW2 is not capable of it.

But also I was on 64k ISDN line, now run 50mbit/s VDSL (1000 times faster), server hardware is probably 100 times faster too, and DAOC had 3000 people cap in RvR zone
(you could bring server down, though, its not that engine was THAT simple, with about 60 pets per animist, and what, 10-20 per theurg)

Only thing that was really that much more simple is amount of DOTs (conditions) you could put on someone…but then again, there were stun/mezz/DOT immunities that does not exist in GW2, and DAOC had to calculate it, also rememebr DAOC /stat command, servers calculated tons of info for every player, etc

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

If said servers could handle the lowered caps?

How would you nay sayers nay my say for yay?

Wishing the servers could handle that load won’t make it so. The reality is that they can’t, so there’s no point in making threads complaining about the cap. The cap is first and foremost due to hardware limitations. Unless you’re hiding some new netcode and server stacks under your pillow, that’s not likely to change any time soon.

I’m just curious how Mythic did it in DAOC 15y ago, was hardware stronger back then? And many clients on dial up, too

Here, big zerg can just stack on top of each other, press 111111 and win

In DAOC, your 30 people doing that would be mezzed and PBAOED down in about 3 seconds by competent group of 8 (my best ever is killing 96 with 8 in less than 10s, btw)

Check at 1:10, 1:40 etc

So its just about game design

Its great map, enjoying it last 24h as Blackgater

Reaper Alim.4176:

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

But that would make game much more similar to DAOC…you surely don’t want that!
Whats next, realm points for healers?

Heh, didn’t see this thread so reported in another…my last ranked match is from 9/19/2016 and I won, but game says I’m on 10 loss streak

Also, before patch, I lost tier in sapphire

1. this one I reported in game, too…i was T3 sapphire, lost 2 matches, won one and now I’m 4 pips T2

2. I won last ranked match, but after I logged in after last patch, game says I have 10 losing streak

Fermi.2409:

Whenever my patcher stalls out I just restart it and it’ll run fine

Sometimes works for me too, but I restarted like 50 times already, no luck

Same here, please help

Dhemize.8649:

Nikola.3841:

Dhemize.8649:

The fact they’ve coined terminology like “hibergate” suggests they need an excuse for losing, as if no other server deals with the same issues. There are just as many tryhards on BG, but when it’s a fairly even match and they lose, we’re all expecting to see that magical word pop up that negates their loss.

BG never loses “fairly even match” (unless you mean meaningless “ppt match”, of course)

LMAO

I’ll just assume the main server you play on is BG.

And I’ll just assume you think ppt is main goal in wvw, or you’re like DK and sending 200 people to die to kill 2-3 catas is “tactical win” if you manage to kill said catas

Dhemize.8649:

The fact they’ve coined terminology like “hibergate” suggests they need an excuse for losing, as if no other server deals with the same issues. There are just as many tryhards on BG, but when it’s a fairly even match and they lose, we’re all expecting to see that magical word pop up that negates their loss.

BG never loses “fairly even match” (unless you mean meaningless “ppt match”, of course)

Theres no “ppt enthusiasts” on BG…that title is totally reserved for TC and YB…meaningless number to brag about after been beaten over and over by lesser numbers, lol

Most of the time, BG has outnumbered buff on 3 out of 4 maps

SoPP.7034:

Sarrs.4831:

BG conveniently seems to be on break whenever they lose. True or not, it’s a bit boring.

It’s boring on the field and off. Their forum warriors have been posting the same stuff for years.

In any event, BG would either zerg everything down with double numbers for the win or hibergate and ‘let you win’, either way congratulating themselves.

BG constantly try to take SMC even when we have outnumbered buff on ebg map…I have yet to see TC try to take it without mapblob if there are any defenders…if I’d be biased, I’d bash DB too, but theres clear difference between DB and TC willing to fight unfavored fights, and I’m not the only one seeing it

Zok.4956:

morrolan.9608:

My opinion is that the original design intention (prior to implementation) was that WvW would be endgame for those who wanted open world style and large scale pvp

Yes. Another intention for this was the idea, that there should be no openworld-PvP in the PvE maps (like it is in other games) because there should only be game-mechanics in PvE that encourage players to play together (but not against each other).

So, WvW is A-Nets version of openworld, large scale, PvP and for players that want openworld PvP, WvW is the endgame. Because there is no other endgame for this game mode in GW2.

I guess he meant DAOC-like end game…there RvR was absolute endgame for everyone except people on co-op and pvp servers

ThomasC.1056:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

We need to do as much as possible to discourage siege turtling.

We do not need to buff siege turtles.

In some fights we have found YB or FA (can’t remember) had 10+ arrow carts in one paper tower.

We should NOT encourage this siege mentality by buffing it.

Three players should never be able to stop a map blob, it’s as simple as that.

Walls and siege are there to delay the blob, not stop the blob.

The walls gave your reinforcements more than enough time to arrive and show their PvP skills to the JQ map blob.

What kind of nonsense is that ?

A map blob can spread ! Towers have 1 gate and 2 destructible walls. This is more than 3 ppl with sieges can handle. If it’s brainless enough to let itself be killed by 3 guys with siege, then it truly deserves it.

Sieges encourage tactics, and those aren’t so hard to understand or think out.

Brainless blobs humping doors and walls to flip objectives must strongly be discouraged, and if that could happen through severly buffing sieges so that one single cannon shot can down 10 bloblings, then so be it !

He would literally cry if been hit by DAOC siege oil, I bet

Teon.5168:

elkirin.8534:

Instead of listing the many many deficiences of DAOC, I will simply say, realm rank and abilities power creep post TOA were not good for the game. I played DAOC for the RvR but I also have a very good memory.

On to GW2 WvW, regardless of how you choose to play, the majority of gamers will likely play for an individual sense of enjoyment.

If you do not allow the other team members to enjoy the game, many of them will cease to play. THEY do not have to change to suit your playstyle requirements.

Be as casual or fanatical as you wish but be aware, you require like minded opponents or you may be boring/driving them from the game.

I wasn’t trying to remember DaoC with rose colored glasses. Man, it had tons of problems, too. Frankly, I am super happy that the CC isn’t anything in GW2 wvw like it was in DaoC……it was absurd in DaoC. And yea, there were lots of other problems…..it certainly was far from perfect, especially after ToA.

I actually liked DAOC CC better…it was great filter to separate good from bad players…imagine how hard is to get group for cabalist after he aoe dotted 30+ enemy perfectly mezzed by your group sorc

Only really bad thing was debuff, baseline stun and hard nukes all on same class on Hibernia side…and that only in keep or big fights, and not in 8vs8

Fact is, I was one of people bashing DAOC developers the most on vnboards, but it was my first MMO ever…I only started to praise them after I tried Age of Conan, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Shadowbane, SWTOR, Star Trek Online numerous less known…all of those were better in some way (except pvp, none even came close) but DAOC was and still is, the best oevrall experience

Avigrus.2871:

Nikola.3841:

“xxx just killed yyy in Emain Macha” repeated 96 times, and make you proud and zerg laughed at

Ah I was on Gawaine Hibernia and i still remember Albs launching an attack on our relic keep. There was this Mana Mentalist on our server named Cylanth i think.. as everyone was running towards the relic keep you just saw his deathspam – he must have wiped half the enemy zerg – i think i still have pages of screenshots of the chat text – it was incredible.

This is another thing – you knew your foes in DaoC RvR and the key players on your server per class. They had leaderboards on the Camelot Herald for kills for each class/server/realm. I remember finally cracking the top list for my class/realm – it was a proud day.

I knew when i saw Benz (Shadowblade) or Ramirez (Infiltrator), that i was in big trouble because they were straight up killers and my Ranger was no match for them. There are no reputations in GW2 WvW (aside from a few Commanders) – it’s sad.

Thats what some people don’t understand in my other post…i played numerous MMOs and DAOC (and somewhat Warhamemr Online) are only ones where I remember tons of people (and many remember me, too)…btw, didn’t Benz play on Tristan?

https://www.reddit.com/r/longlostgamers/comments/12ksli/daoc_anybody_from_the_guild_zion_on_tristanmidgard/

In DAOC, you could get realm abilities ONLY in RvR, but they were useful everywhere, in PVE and RvR…if you wanted to make top crafter, you had to go to most far keep in your realm because only there top tier crafts could be done…goal of RvR was to steal enemy relics that would give 10% or 20% boost to magic or melee damage…both to RvR and PVE (making doing dungeons easier for realm golding relics, but at same time, your realm became target of other 2 realms, so you could not enjoy your bonuses without been forced to defend them 24h/day…that made healthy community where some guilds would defend realm while others would farm pve for equipment)

PVE was done purely to equip yourself for RvR

When my group of 8 would wipe 96 people, everyone on both sides would see endless deathspam in form

“xxx just killed yyy in Emain Macha” repeated 96 times, and make you proud and zerg laughed at

etcetc, I could find a lot of more good ideas (and some not so great, but all games have them )

Edit:

also there was 1vs1 (dueling), 8vs8 (groups) and zerg vs zerg warfare in theater big enough to not interfere much (and quite often 8vs8 peope would, for example, let duel guys finish duel before killing winner, or even let him go)

Balthazzarr.1349:

… and remember … apparently this is what the majority voted for… server linking… I have to believe that this majority was, of course, made up of the servers with the most people… so naturally they outnumbered the low level servers who really never had a chance to speak their voices other than to say nooooooooooooo in the forums and be shot down… sigh as my tagline says…. “… used to roam”

Any low population server people with sense of reality voted FOR it, AFAIK ET people were very happy joining BG and vice versa

DAOC also had a strange concept of arrows and siege fired from top of keep having bigger range than that fired from below up top

OriOri.8724:

Dawdler.8521:

OriOri.8724:

Dawdler.8521:

Walls are not defense. Players are defense. Walls are there to delay the enemy players so that friendly players can come and fight them.

Walls are most definitely a key part of defense.

Hahahaha… If it was a key part in defense then everything else would be secondary. Good luck having a wall defend itself.

GW2 walls is no more “defense” than barbed wire fence. Standing on a wall and firing on people below as opposed to standing on the ground and firing on people above is the exact same thing. The wall itself is only there to delay people. You want actual defense? Players and siege. Hopefully more players than siege, but that depends on the servers you meet.

Thematically walls are one of the most important parts of defense. Just because ANet has implemented them poorly doesn’t change that fact, and it doesn’t give your argument any credence either unless ANet comes in here and says themselves that they intend walls to do nothing but slow people down (not that it matters when there are 75 people attacking a tower). They just need a few updates to truly be effective at being a part of defense. But absolutely the team defending a structure should have some advantages over a team attacking it. And right now the walls are more of a disadvantage because you can’t even stand on them to use defensive siege without being killed within 3 seconds by AOEs

Indeed…you just have to compare oil on DAOC and GW2 keeps to see the difference between good and bad design

Dawdler.8521:

But anyway… who are you again?

Exactly my point

Fat Disgrace.4275:

how ever, if the wall is too high then there is nothing to counter it. i mean no one below can aoe , what if all it takes is 1 long range seige at outer bay that can not be hit apart from enemy long range siege, that has a window of vale and ruins. ok enemy can treb from briar. seige wars are just boring.

They don’t have to be boring…see video in my previous post

One of my best MMO experiences was in DAOC, we Albs took Dun na Nged keep from Hibernia and defended it for 6 hours, and it was fun all the time

Its all in this video::

Diku.2546:

There is no point to playing…imho

I’ve already stopped playing for about a month now.

Played both GW1 and GW2 since beta/launch. I used to play 40+ hours weekly…driven by a WvW reward that ANet can’t give out…the admiration & praise shared between hardcore home world veterans.

There’s no point to continue playing when nobody OF VALUE to me can appreciate my effort & sacrifice. Same goes for posting in this forum. Nobody will miss me & nobody will care…I get that…that’s why I only cared about playing for a community of players that I Valued. My server’s identity has since been swallowed up by the Host World Server & we were left to wander as a Slave & Refugee in my mind’s eyes.

Indeed…DAOC, mentioned in first post, made it so that when I returned back after 5 years, theres still a lot people that remember me by my cleric name…and I was far from been most important player around…GW2, noone knows me, despite spending 90% play time in wvw

My best in DAOC was win 8 vs 96…fun times

Lots of fun fights vs DB…TC, not so much

Looking from BG side, YB, then TC

PadreNike.1803:

Celeras.4980:

PadreNike.1803:

The other team didn’t have a war, it was a rev who switched for the achievement at 400 score.

Forget the comp for a sec, can all you smarty pants answer why would there be a legend on the other team at T4 diamond while not balancing it out with a legend on my team?

Because you have a small premade on your side. This is literally as even as a matchup could be without both sides being exactly the same.

So the small premade of Diamond+Ruby (at T4 mind u) justifies having a legend on the other side?

I’ll tell you why I lost, it wasn’t the comp I see unfavorable comps win all day long in solo ranked q, I lost because Toker was on the other side which according to matchmaking would team him up with ppl at his skill level (or close) meaning probably the most skilled players that exist in diamond ATM.

What exact bonus people in legendary division have to make them superawesome deciding factor?
+20% on all stats, or something like that?

Its not “other perspective” though, its been posted numerous times already…month ago smarta###s here told us to wait a week or two and everything will settle up…guess what?

I saw far worse…actually, I was seeing 10 worse matchmakings in a row in sapphire right now

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

I don’t think he even has clue whats he trying to say, so he’s just backpedalling left and right…and back, sometimes