Guild Wars 2

This is pretty much a direct question to ANet. Dry Top and Silverwastes enemies are going to be dropping Portal items to get into open beta. My issue here is the “drop” part. Dry Top has plenty of enemies to farm loot out of. Silverwastes? Not so much. The news page only says “drop from enemies” so I’m assuming this won’t be taking the mission success rewards or the Bandit Chests into account. Majority of the enemies that pop up there (e.g. just about every enemy tied to an objective) drop no loot. Will that be adjusted for the portal drops at least?

Because if the majority of enemies aren’t even going to give me the chance to get a portal, then I might as well go to Dry Top. (I can feel the cluster lag already)

applied disbelief.8763:

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief. And this isn’t rock paper scissors, so one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another just because of class choice.

Pawstruck.9708:

Yep I’m a thief… one class shouldn’t be able to insta-kill another

Just let that sit for a minute.

I can’t apply enough disbelief.

ellesee.8297:

Nilix.2170:

ellesee.8297:

on the ready up stream. automated response gives -50% condi duration starting at 33% health. really doesn’t hurt anybody but the bad engis.

Bad engis? More like no engis. Did people even use this to great effect? The trait itself was interesting to test out but I’ve never gotten the chance to be in a fight where I can actually notice its usefulness. I just don’t get it.

have you ever played pvp

Good point. I do play PvP infrequently but the few times I’ve run the trait, I didn’t really come up against condi users much. Might have just been my luck but man, that’s disappointing.

ellesee.8297:

on the ready up stream. automated response gives -50% condi duration starting at 33% health. really doesn’t hurt anybody but the bad engis.

Bad engis? More like no engis. Did people even use this to great effect? The trait itself was interesting to test out but I’ve never gotten the chance to be in a fight where I can actually notice its usefulness. I just don’t get it.

Rezzet.3614:

automated response got nerfed to uselessness and no longer makes you imune to conditions when dieing

No. No. No. What? Why? Where was this announced?

So, I know we’ve all talked about these kinds of things. But now it’s actually testable. Or rather, it’s been testable and I’m only realizing it now.
It’s just a bug, and only works with the Rocket Turret while underwater, but the cooldown timer begins from the moment you deploy it rather than the moment of destruction. In the Screenshot you can see the explosion of a detonated rocket turret that was left out for about 30s. Rather than a 50s CD, I got 21s.

I’m not really here to announce this bug’s existence. I haven’t checked the bug list and I don’t have much time to see if it’s already listed there. My main point is to bring up the conversation of having turret CDs being like this normally. Why it would(n’t) be a great idea, the consequences of this kind of change and the ways of balancing around it.

I didn’t see this one if it’s there but
:Allowing characters to swap an armor piece with another even if the inventory is full

Chase.8415:

This is funny, there’s nothing ArenaNet can do without being complained at.

I mean really, complaining that you wont be able to solo world event because there might be more players….

Completing World Events solo or in a small 3-5 man group is a great experience. I definitely understand the pain. The decisions you make in combat feel a lot more meaningful. I can’t just set my target to the enemy champ and autoattack while I go wash the dishes. (True Story) Enemies focus you more so you have to make better decisions, and you can utilize Crowd Control without having to deal with 20 stacks of Defiant afterwards. And for people with not-so-great computers, it means that you can actually enjoy some of the visuals during combat.

That said, even with the merging of multiple servers, I feel that the same will still be possible. There will be more population on less active maps, but I don’t think it’ll be so much that scaling on every event will make it become ridiculous.

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s not that 30/30/0/0/10 will stop being the meta for PvE. That’s definitely not changing, and I don’t expect much if any revisions at all given what we currently know about upcoming changes.

But it WILL stop being the meta for PvE.
Everyone’s going to be going 6/6/0/0/2 instead!

emikochan.8504:

All classes need more skills, many weapons that would make sense aren’t in use yet. I’d vote mace / torch / hammer next up for engineers.

Have a feeling we’ll be waiting til an expansion.

They said long ago that additional weapon types would be added during expansions, so I’ve since stopped worrying about it.

In all honesty, I don’t even think that would be all that OP. It just opens SD’s usefulness a bit more. Sacrificing utility for damage seems to be par for the course in this game though.
Elixir H/Elixir R/Elixir B/Elixir S|Bandage Self/Net Attack/Analyze/Surprise Shot

The first thing that came to my mind was the raw strength of Healing Turret/Bandage Self. Two 5k heals each on a 20s CD at most.

This isn’t a change that I necessarily support, nor is it one I see happening at any point. But it had me wondering. What if you could choose any combination of utility skills rather than having them dependent on your utility? Effectively, it would be having another four skills to play around with and customize.
You could go with something like…
Healing Turret, Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Tool Kit|Bandage Self, Analyze, Mine Field, Toss Elixir R

I already see this causing issues with turrets since you can’t detonate them if you changed them. But that’s just something you’d have to deal with given the option to do so.

Next patch.
The answer is always “Next Patch”

Thank you for putting these numbers together. This was actually something I wanted to test out myself in groups, I was trying to visualize what it would be like to have 5 Engineers heavily spec’d into Cleric and Apothecary. This will make it a lot easier for me to conduct some numbers. You also have the same utility setup that I run around with in Southsun Cove, However, I’ve been running something similar but with a power rifle. Both, however, get the job done.

You also have some slight variability within your trait setup allowing for an easy swap from front line to protective line with Shrapnel -> Grenadier and Speedy Kits -> Deployable Turrets.

I think the one thing that breaks my heart about this, and honestly it’s just a personal problem, is the 10 in Tools. I’ve actually gotten very VERY familiar with utilizing Elixir R to the fullest, but the long cd on its toss skill keeps me hampered. With a 15 in Tools, you’ll have access to Toss Elixir R twice from Inertial Converter. This is especially useful in Southsun Cove where the speed at which people go down in the Crazed Attack Events becomes ridiculous. (There’s also something bothering me about the notes in the wiki that I need to test. Will return with results.)

I’d have to sacrifice either 5 in Inventions or Explosives to get it though. Removing the constant bomb heal or the option to go into a Grenade Spec is a hard decision.

Kimbald.2697:

Nilix.2170:

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Of course, but I mean that I prefer bringing all the others down to our level.
Downed state is ok as an idea, but it’s way too strong in this game.

Not going to happen, I know. Just stating how I see it.

It should be strong. Because no one wants to be weak and useless. And it’s a MUCH worse idea to bring seven classes down to a similar feeling of futility and uselessness than it is to empower one class.

Kimbald.2697:

I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.

If the majority of professions can goes beyond this, then the problem isn’t everyone else. It’s us.

Our Downed 2 would be perfect, if I could use it on allies to pull myself to them as well.

Well, not perfect, because I’m kitten sure I’d miss them all the time. Maybe just a hook that pulls us to wherever we want to go.

I’d also love for Self-Regulated Defenses to act as a drop Elixir R on downed rather than Elixir S on 25% But that’s NEVER gonna happen.

SSC is actually a lot of fun. Veteran Karkas are like mini-boss fights in themselves. I"m glad that Engineers have Mine Field to knock out all those ridiculous boons they give themselves.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

oh its simple, the turrets are intimdating…. if you get close enough you can hear them talking about the mobs momma’s

Healing Turret: EY YO, TEE TEE!
Thumper Turret: WASSUP, HT!
Rocket Turret: SUP HT, HOW YOU FEELIN’
HT: FEELIN FOR A HEALIN’, ROCKY. YO, YOU HEARD WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT RISEN ABOMINATION’S MOMMA?
TT: NAH, FILL ME IN.
HT: MAN, I HEARD HIS MOMMA’S SOOO FAT, THEY MISTOOK HER FOR A BUNKER BUILD.
RT: SHE’S SO UGLY THAT WHEN ZHAITAN’S WILL BROUGHT EVERYONE BACK, ZHAITAN HAD TO CREATE A NEW CATEGORY FOR HER CALLED “ZHAITAN WON’T.”
HT:SHE’S SO HUNGRY I BET SHE COULD BEAT THE MOUTH AT AN EATING CONTEST.
TT: YO MAN, HIS MOMMA’S SO HEAVY, WHEN I USED MY OVERCHARGE, I KNOCKED MYSELF BACK.

RT: MOMMA’S SO WIDE, THAT WHEN AN ENGINEER THROWS GRENADES AT MAX RANGE, ALL OF THREE OF THEM HIT!
TT: I DON’T KNOW MAN. SHE’S SO ROUND THEY JUST MIGHT BOUNCE BACK AND HIT HIM IN THE FACE!
HT: HIS MOMMA’S SO STUPID, IF YOU PUT CONFUSION ON HER, SHE WOULDN’T TAKE DAMAGE.
RT: Why’s that?
HT: CUZ SHE AINT GOT NO SKILLS
TT: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-

And then Healing Turret was taken out in a frenzy attack. Thumper and Rocket, knowing the end was nigh, detonated themselves, providing AOE Healing before the worst could happen.

blurps.2340:

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

I actually put the Thumper turret to great use. Net and Rocket are awesome when you use them both together as they become ridiculous CC machines.

Really? In my experiences, the ones put down first seem to be the Field that gets used. …Hmm, might have been a range issue or something. Oh well.

It also depends on whether the blast triggers before the poison field drops or not.

Kalan.9705:

People ask for mesmer. People don’t ask for engineer.

Because Mesmers have a pretty distinct role in most groups. Distract enemies with misinformation to lower their DPS. Apply AOE Quickness to enhance our DPS.

Engineers haven’t defined a group-related role strong enough to be publicly desired.

Yes, it’s the same reason why Mine Kit became Throw Mine. And the same reason why the Mine Field mines lost their capacity as Blast Finishers. A single skill giving that many Blast Fields is pretty overpowered.

Imagine, if you will, using Short Fuse and Grenadier at the same time.
The longest cooldown on Grenade Kit is the Poison Grenade (25s, 20 if traited)
You would have a single skill dropping three blast finishers every 20s.
That’s (9 stacks of might, 9s of AOE Stealth/Retal/Weakness, 3960 base AOE healing) depending on field. Deployed at 1400 range. And that’s IN ADDITION TO the three poison fields. From one skill.

Can you imagine Grenade Barrage having blast finishers? Sure, it’s a 30s cooldown, but Grenadier makes it toss 8 grenades. 8 Blast Finishers.

Can you imagine a world where a single player could provide an immediate12-24 stacks of might or a 10560 AOE Heal in the middle of a fight with a single non-elite skill and a Combo Field that the Engineer herself could easily drop?

Edit: MAKE IT HAPPEN, ANET.

Okay, so what if instead of getting rid of hobo sacks, you just gave them appropriate skins according to the backpack? That would be a hell load of work, honestly, since it would require six new textures per backpack. But a Quaggan backpack holding bombs or a Super Adventure Box Elixir Gun would be slick as hell.

Engineers can manage to do almost everything combat wise except Fear. Because of this, Engineers get hit with something that I like to call “Nerf by Association”. Part of what comes with this whole “Jack of all trades” thing is that whenever anything gets changed in the game, the engineer is affected. As illustrated in last patch, changes to confusion affected Skill 3 on Pistol, Skill 3 on Bomb Kit, and Skill 3 on Tool Kit. Changes to Frenzy and Haste affected Elixir U. Elixir S and Mist Form were nerfed simultaneously because they are effectively the same skill.

And yes, Weapon Sigils work on Kits. We had to take a nerf to Grenades in order to get it.

Raijinn.9065:

I watched that video, the mine kit was insanely overpowered lol. Sounds like instead of trying to balance it they just remove it altogether.

It’s funny because when I first tried it out I thought it was absolutely lame. Then someone pointed out I could give myself 15 stacks of might with them. It was the best thing ever.

But honestly, the only other way to balance such a thing would be to get rid of the one thing that made it nice in the first place, the blast finisher. That’s the same reason why Mine Field is no longer a blast finisher. All those blast stacks…
3-15 stacks of might 3-15seconds of Area Retal or Stealth…

Could you imagine the current Healing Turret? 2520+2520+(1320*5) = Immediate 11740hp every 20s.

Option 2. The tooltip shows a flat cdr but actually using the skill gives something different. Bandage Self says 14, but when you use it the cooldown timer starts at 15.

Updated~

Amusingly enough, with 30 points in Alchemy, Potent Elixirs almost seems wasted on Elixir H. Note that Cleansing Elixir H and Potent Elixir H both have the same heal amount at the end of the 60s. This is because, assuming you achieve regen100% of the time, you would have enough seconds of regen to achieve perpetual regeneration without it.
At least that’s what I’d like to say. You still have to “ROLL FOR REGEN” so the additional 2 seconds may or may not become wasted in case you hit a different boon. Personally, I believe it would be the extra second of Protection keeping you alive anyway, so it’s nothing to furrow a brow about.

Yamsandjams.3267:

AsmallChicken.9634:

You should also take into account that putting points into Tools reduces Med Kit F1 heal cd. So at 30 in tools, Med Kit should see a 30% increase in overall healing.

Actually, the toolbelt recharge rate isn’t a linear reduction, or at least this has been reported to not be the case (I haven’t tested it personally).

That is, having 30 points in tools should not give you 30% off the cooldowns for your toolbelt skills. The formula may be something like:

CD / (1 + (TCR / 100))

where CD is the skill cooldown, and TCR is the toolbelt cooldown reduction from the tools tree.

So 30 points in tools for a 20s CD (medkit F1) would give

20 / (1 + (30 / 100)) = 15.38s

in contrast to a flat 30% reduction which would give 14s cooldown for the same skill.

Again, I haven’t personally tested this, but this has been reported to be the case.

What the hell are you even talking about? The tooltip says 14 like it sho-
and then I tested it
What the hell kind of CDR formula did they implement? GAH. I am SO glad I am not making a chart for that right now.

It’s not my only option. I also don’t have to press all three to heal. I can simply press my toolkit for a good 4.9k amount. Or I can use two med packs for a smaller 2k heal. Or perhaps drop 3 in one place, come back 20s later, consume all, +my regular heal and the next 3 off of cooldown for a considerable burst of HP (10.9k assuming no Healing Power). It’s a kit that drops bandages and for all of its required micromanaging, you gain a lot of functionality that you wouldn’t get if it were as simple as any other classes heal. Pressing three buttons may seem like a downside, but how many of them can physically save their heal for later? How many can give portions of their normal heal to other players? With extra work comes additional utility and additional ways to affect the situation of the battlefield.

And yes, what you say is true. Healing Turret, both in its current and former form, rewarded picking your turret up and detonating it over leaving it on the ground. But that’s ArenaNet’s problem, not mine. We are Engineers. Engineers exist to solve problems. And we do so using the tools we have in the best way that we can. If leaving it out isn’t reliable enough, then I’ll detonate or pick it up. And I’ll keep doing this until leaving it out becomes a reliable option… or I’ll just use the Med Kit. I love the Med Kit.

You can’t just say that something will work because you made it with that idea in mind. It has to be executed, tested, and then evaluated. That’s the magic of game design: What you believe will happen, and what actually happens are often two different things.

Victoitor.2917:

1)This is also quite unfair as no profession needs to press 3 buttons to get a heal.

2)I cannot remove immobilize from myself since Drop Antidote is not consumed until I can walk into it, which I cannot do while immobilized.

3)Sure it heals really well if it’s all you do as shown here, but that does not take into account the amount of time you are out of combat.

4)Why should I press 3 buttons every time I need to heal (and lose time doing so) when no other profession in the game has to do this?

5)Even if we disconsider that leaving the healing turret out is the worst heal the engineer could do as reported here, this chart considers ideal conditions which are really hard to obtain.

6)Consider the following situation. You drop your healing turret and overcharge. Now you have a 15 second delay to be able to overcharge again. Now say that the healing turret dies exactly 14.99 seconds after you used overcharge (I noticed because I was looking at it waiting to use the overcharge again and it happened to me). So now, after the 15 second wait to use your healing skill, the healing turret cooldown is reset and you’ll have to wait 20 extra seconds to use it again. This made the total cooldown on using your lackluster healing to 35 seconds total (14.99 seconds waiting for the overcharge cooldown + 20 seconds of the healing turret cooldown).

So there you have it. Don’t ever leave the healing turret out. If it gets destroyed (which you know it will), then every second you left it out is a longer cooldown you will have to wait.

7) Does any other profession in the game have this problem with healing skills?

8) We need better healing options…

1) I do not have the time right now to compare all of the healing skills in the game. But if you ask me hard enough, one day, I just might. However, I can tell you this: All professions are not created equal. So, erase the concept of “fairness” from your mind in terms of balance. It’s not about fairness, it’s about effectiveness. Not many healing skills can grant you 7K HP, Fury, Swiftness, and Cleanse a Condition without Healing Power. Nor can they Heal you for 5k, your team for 2.5k, and then remove 2 conditions from up to 5 people in range, while providing a Water Field for additional Combo Finisher abuse. They just don’t. If all you want is simple healing, Elixir H is your best bet. If you want Condition Cleansing attached, then you’re going to have to either trait or use something with a bit more effort (i.e. The other two Healing Skills) That’s the give and take of being an Engineer.

2) With 20p in Tools, you can throw the contents of the Med Kit. I’ve never used it myself because it felt like extra work, but there was someone who said that it was perfect for their build because they can Throw Antidote right where they stood and cleanse immobilize.

3)Hey, I made that chart! But no, it doesn’t take that into account. It’s really just raw data without any assumptions on your situation. Immobilize can kill the timing of your full heal of Med Kit, Boon Removal can cripple the benefits that HT and Elixir H give you. But the chart can’t predict your future. That’s up to you and your opponents.

4)You don’t have to. You can go Elixir H and have everything simple.

5) Don’t neglect the fact that the untraited Elixir H in question is granting you regeneration every single time, and that only wins by 50. If it becomes Swiftness or Protection even once, you aren’t healing as much. But you’re right, those are perfect, ideal conditions that aren’t necessarily feasible. Leaving out the Healing Turret assumes that it stays out and doesn’t die for a full 60s.

6)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA.. ha.. ahem. Yes, that’s absolutely unfortunate. And that’s the same reason why everyone believes that picking up your kit immediately after overcharge is better than leaving it out. It’s less susceptible to damage while also being a stronger heal for you in the long run. Also, you left out the 0.5s cast time that it takes to drop the turret, so it’s really 35.5s

7)Who knows? You would have to play them and see.

8)The options we have are pretty good and fit a variety of playstyles. What we really need is a buff to turret armor and HP. Especially the Healing Turret which has the least amount of health of them all.

Dont worry about it. In fact, I need people checking these things because data that’s incorrect is worthless. We also need more people actively fixing the wiki after patches because people take things on there as Word of God when it’s supposed to be an ongoing process.

So I checked how Regenerating Mist (H Turret Toolbelt) worked. It doesn’t actually stack intensity like I thought it did, but rather stacks duration just how regeneration usually does. So it applies a Regen Boon and a Water Field in two bursts. This would give picking up and detonating the turret 6 additional seconds of regeneration.

Also, there’s an issue with immediate overcharge that I didn’t realize. It only gives you 5s of regen, not 8 (I thought the 3s that the regular pulse gives was also applied. This was my mistake.) I’ll adjust for all these things as well.

Seras.5702:

One other notable issue. According to the wiki, Potent Elixirs does not increase the duration of boons created by elixirs, only the duration of the elixir itself. Which means Elixir U will last longer but Elixir H has no duration so the trait has no affect on it. Common misconception. So that trait is wasted completely with respect to this discussion. The trait is designed to work with pretty much all the other elixirs except healing.

Is that what the Wiki says? Because that’s wrong. Someone should go change that.I’m in the Heart of the Mists right now. 30% Alchemy + Potent Elixirs will give me 15s of Swiftness or Regeneration. Without Potent Elixirs, it’s giving me 13s. The tooltip doesn’t update when the trait is taken but when you hover over the actual boon, the time is properly adjusted.

EDIT: Just tested with Elixir B as well. That bug has been fixed and properly increases the length of the boons of both Elixir H and Elixir B. Removed the bug explanation from the wiki.

That % actually comes up a bit skewed since it only affects the Toolbelt skill and not the Med Kit skills. However, the main point of this was to show the base line of healing. I only added traits for Cleansing/Potent Elixir H because most people bring up its traited capabilities. The Alchemy line is one of the more reliable lines to build on since its Elixir traits are very useful for those builds. With the popularity of HGH amongst Engineers, there is a good percentage of people who would actually be going 30 in Alchemy and see numbers like that.

However, the number of people going 30 in Tools is a lot harder to grasp. Many of the traits in Tools are build specific and playstyle changers. It’s common to assume 10p in Tools. Since you have Speedy Kits, and Static Discharge. However, by itself is enough to improve your states over time, as well as grant an additional Bandage Self within the 60s time frame. Currently, healing happens at 1, 22, 43 second mark (20s CD +1s Cast Time) a 10% CDR will give you Bandage Self at 1, 20, 39, and 58 second marks(18s CD + 1s Cast Time). A full 30% CDR will give you heals at 1, 16, 31, and 46 (14s CD +1s Cast Time). You miss getting a 5th heal by just a single second.
I can illustrate the differences of that as well in another chart. If only I knew how to make an interactive one.

Kimbald.2697:

This is an extremely nice piece of work you did there.
I think I was the one in that ‘other thread’ presenting some simple comparison numbers between leaving out and detonating. It was nowhere near as accurate or complete as what you did.
Others filled in, and slowly we were seeing the full picture.
You skipped all that and just handed the full picture on a silver platter

Thanks. I meant to do this days ago but I had my hands full. Then while I was playing I remembered that I wanted to make this. But had no idea how to make graphs in Excel. But with the magic of the internet I managed to do it… at 2:00 in the morning. Now I can apply to jobs that ask me if I know how to use Excel! (I’m looking at you ArenaNet. Hold a Game Designer position open for me and I’ll balance this class for you <3)

Linc.6834:

Great Job! very complete picture. This just confirms that med kit is the best heal you can take, especially if you have points in tools, along with Inertial Converter and procc’ing on heal abilities its hard to beat

Apparently if you have 15 points in the Inventions line, that also will refresh your Bandage Self recharge. I didn’t know this before someone else told me a few weeks ago. Of course, it’s better to take it into Tools if you want to clear up your entire toolbelt’s recharge. but if you’re looking for 50 more points in toughness and healing power, you’ve got an option.

Seras.5702:

This is great Nilix!

Out of curiosity…

Did you use MedKit’s F1 on cooldown only or include the medkits on cooldown too?

Did you use the Healing Turret’s F1 when picked up?

Did you use Elixir H’s F1 throw on cooldown too?

Our toolbelt makes healing more complicated than any other profession. Just trying to figure out how you did it.

OOOOH. You just brought up something interesting. Looks like a few numbers are going to have to shift.
To explain the current chart:
Med Kit uses its F1 as the Initial heal(4920) and can occur every 20s. There is an additional 3k every 12s are the 1-3 skills within the kit. This makes the Med Kit take an early 7920 lead and it continues to maintain this lead because of its modest cooldown and high numbers.
Elixir H grants 5560 in its initial heal and has the possibility to grant regeneration. To illustrate maximum healing effectiveness, the Elixir H chart shows what happens if you achieved regeneration every single time. This is with no traits.

Potent Elixir H is the same as Elixir H but with 30 points in Alchemy and using the traits Fast Acting Elixirs (20% CD Reduction) Potent Elixirs (20% increased Effectiveness) and HGH. Potent Elixirs increases the length of regeneration by 2 seconds on its own. Having 30 points in Alchemy increases the duration by another 3 (30% Boon Duration of 10s of regeneration) for a total of 15s.

Cleansing Elixir H has the same trait setup as Potent Elixir H but replaces Potent Elixirs with Cleansing Formula 409. While it loses 2s of Regeneration, you are granted 3 condition cleanses (actually 6 if you count the toss, I’ll edit the chart soon) per 60s.

HT Leave Out shows what happens if you leave the turret placed and overcharge every 15. HT Pickup illustrates dropping,overcharging, and picking up. HT Detonate illustrates dropping, overcharging, and detonating. However, I did utilize the Healing Turret’s or Elixir H’s F1.

The F1 on the Elixir can provide additional regeneration for another 10s. This is might be enough to grant permanent regen uptime at maximum effectiveness for Potent and Cleansing Elixir H. It would also shrink the gap that Untraited Elixir H has. So I’ll have to edit this to accomodate.

However, what interests me a lot more is the Healing Turret’s F1, as that provides TWO STACKS of Regen. I want to figure out how that is timed when done immediately. It may be possible that the timing of the Turret F1 is crucial to getting the application of double stack regen. Time to jump into Arah.

Things I’ll need to change
-Healing Turret to accommodate for F1.
-Elixir H to accommodate for F1
-An additional Elixir H comparison showing the healing amount when regeneration is never granted (to illustrate the lowest heal the Elixir can grant). I think it would be a nice comparison showing the ‘range’ of healing possible for Elixir users.

I have no idea what thread I initially said I’d put this in, but someone brought up math and numbers over the effectiveness of the Healing Turret, so I did some math and numbers of my own. Then I realized that just the end solutions doesn’t cut it, I need a full-on graph. So here we go. The charts detail the differences between Elixir H (Untraited and Traited, With and Without Regeneration), Med Kit, and the Healing Turret (Left on Field, Immediately Picked Up, and Immediately Detonated) in Healing over a 60s period with 0 Healing Power at maximum efficiency.

Chart 1: Differences between Elixir H.

Red line: 30 in Alchemy, Fast Acting Elixirs, Potent Elixirs, Regeneration achieved from Toolbelt and Main Skill 100% of the time

Purple Line: 30 in Alchemy, Fast Acting Elixirs, Potent Elixirs, Never Achieve Regeneration boon.

Blue line: 0 Traits, Regeneration achieved from Toolbelt and Main Skill 100% of the time

Green Line: 0 Traits, Never achieve Regeneration boon

Relationships to consider: Area between Red and Purple or the Blue and Green line can serve to illustrate the range of effective healing that the Elixir can give you depending on your traits, and your ability to rng for Regen. For example, if you are untraited at level 80, you would never heal below the Green line, but would never achieve beyond the Blue states.

Chart 2: Differences between the Healing Turret
Blue: Leaving HT out and overcharging it when possible
Red: Drop, Overcharge, and Immediately pick up the HT
Green: Drop, Overcharge, and Detonate the HT

Chart 3: Traited Elixir Range vs. Leaving out the Healing Turret
This chart is funny to me.

Chart 4: All Healing Turret methods vs Elixir H variations, vs the Med Kit
MED KIT STRONG

Chart 5: Side-by-Side number comparisons

Enjoy. Updated for use of Toolbelt Skills Regenerating Mist and Toss Elixir H, readjusted misconceptions of the Healing Turret,

google.3709:

I would say we’re more on the lines of army drop outs or energy drink addicts

Sounds like an engineer to me.

…You don’t want artists in charge of your bug fixing. Trust me. Many many awful things can happen.

PvE is better when simple.

Oh boy, is it math time?
Just having the numbers is one thing but since healing is more about states rather than HP/s, this actually requires a graph. Give me a bit, and I’ll have some interesting work done.

And yes, I understand that detonating the turret out has its purpose. In fact, that is when it is the most useful. The moment the patch came up, I dedicated 10 minutes of time to practicing the new timing for immediate overcharge and detonation. However, the change was supposed to facilitate the use of the turret as more of a constant group asset. The overcharge heal going to the team makes it well useful for groups, however, it’s inability to stand up keeps it from being something that remains on the field. Even if they did up the HP/Armor on it, I’m certain that the majority of players would OC/DT immediately, but it would make at least become more like a viable option rather than an unnecessary gamble with survival. Currently, the only reason I’d leave it out is to stack on extra seconds of regen before a fight begins and set to overcharge when it starts.

Kimbald.2697:

emikochan.8504:

Arenanet said they didn’t like that people weren’t using the turret and instantly picking it up, so nerfing the instant effect makes sense.

but the new Healing Turret is actually better if detonated immediately.
So they sort of missed their goal there.

And let’s be frank about it: we did NOT pick up our turret before, as the dev said… we detonated it!
This proves they been theorycrafting instead of experiencing first hand.

The reason why it’s best to immediately detonate isn’t because of the changes that they made, it’s because of the changes they DIDN’T make. The changes that they made to HT actually reward you for keeping it out longer (Constant regen, and additional heal + removal of conditions + water field for all allies in range of the overcharge).

The problem is that it’s impossible to keep alive in any kind of fight. The damage it takes is too much, some of the turret traits are supposedly not working, and the speed that you can heal your turrets isn’t worth the effort that you have to put into it. It is much better to cut your losses by immediately overcharging and detonating and reap its benefits than to let it stay out, die to anything else, and get nothing.

MrForz.1953:

JubeiTM.5763:

Grenix.1576:

I was pulled by an engi from inside a fort over 9000 range by magnet! So OP this skill, it never misses, never bugs! OP best skill ever plz nerf more.

I managed to escape an engineer once but his magnet pulled off my armor and gear.

And now he’s hanging around with your exotics and precursor.

That was me, by the way. I totally didn’t see you there! (Seriously, apparently I can hit 5 and it’ll just grab anyone.) By the way, whenever it pulls a precursor, it automatically upgrades it as a legendary. And I get to wield it as an Environment Weapon so I don’t have to worry about it not being a Pistol/Shield/Rifle and not working. And it’s not even soulbound so I can still sell it and then grab someone else’s. But that’s totally working as intended. It’s really cool looking though. Apparently, when I swap to Grenade Kit with the Grenadier trait, it replaces the grenade particle effect with Sunrise, Twilight, and Eternity. You should totally roll engineer before this gets nerfed to only grabbing precursors and not autoupgrading them.

To me, it’s not that heavy. You have to put in a little more effort to get what you used to get but you also get rewarded with faster condition removal. But it’s definitely a rework that I can understand will take getting used to, especially after all that time of practicing the proper detonation of the HT’s water field thin window.

And I’m seriously crossing my fingers that it’ll get bonus HP or a buff to Metal Plating or BOTH next patch.

Tolmos.8395:

Kimbald.2697:

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

Ok, then lets look WITHOUT traits:

Elixir H: 5560 heal every 25 seconds, random buff (10 sec regen, swiftness/protection)
Healing Turret + overload: 5040 personal heal every 20 seconds, 8 second regen to nearby allies, two condition removal to nearby allies, 2520 public heal to nearby allies + Water Field for additional healing burst options

If you insta-pickup without taking time to overload, you can knock off 5 seconds from that (putting the heal comparable to the Elixir H since every 30 seconds you would drop a 5200 heal), but lose the condition removal. So definitely overload, since without it you have a subpar heal, subpar regen time, and no buff (but regen IS a buff, isn’t it?).

Fixed some things.
If you want to compare the Toolbelt skills, Toss Elixir H gives you and your team a random boon of Elixir H Every 30s. Regenerating Mist gives you and nearby allies a Double Stack of Regen for 3s + another Water field every 25s

Kalan.9705:

Well class defining because it’s what little of what’s left. 1)Class defining pistols is gone.
2)Class defining stability on juggernaut is gone.
3)Class defining push-pull on flamer is gone.
4)Class defining underwater grenades are gone.
5)Class defining condition removal is gone.
6)Class defining super elixirs are gone.
7)Class defining multi-kit is gone.
8)Class defining hundred nades is gone.
9)Class defining bunker confusion builds are gone.

All we have left is elixirs, and those evil devtards are hard at work coming up with new ways to ruin those too.

1)Pistols are still going strong with our ability to drop the widest array of conditions on players in the whole game without having to swap weapons.
2)But now you get MIGHT STACKS! (And I really hated the slow tradeoff, I wasn’t hitting anyone with the Flamethrower back then.)
3 and 4 and 6)I do miss this. Especially underwater grenades. Reaching Level 5 during the opening weekend, unlocking Grenade Kit first, going underwater… “Oh hey, Grenade Kit works underwat- Wait. WHY DO THEY GO SO FAST? This damage. I… I AM THE DAMAGE.” Never again. RIP in peace.
5)409 would like to have a word with you. So will the new Healing Turret (which supposedly cleansed only two conditions back before the patch anyway).
7)Multi-Kit isn’t dead… only Kit Refinement, which was probably the most Class Defining anything in the profession.
8)I’m not even mad.
9)Are they really? Was the hit to confusion really that hard? I haven’t tested.

Gizmoitus.7241:

Stop using it as a get out of jail free heal.

What of the Self-Regulating Defenses users who now have to deal with being put in a 3 second condition damage prison when their life falls under 25%?

hackks.3687:

1)when I used Elixir S it was to avoid burst, and/or heal, AND gain separation by switching to my kit so I could drop blinds/chills/cripples/Supply Crate/etc. No other can class do anything even remotely like this

2)If Elixir S wasn’t OP, please by all means tell me what other class could pop an invuln stun break and then be able to swap weapons, use said weapon skills, in addition to all utilities and the elite skill. And not to mention have it a on CD under 60sec.

1) Mesmers can confuse, teleport, use illusions for misdirection, and distort while burstshattering you down. While the strength of confusion and their burst has been lessened, they still hold the ability to do this and it is still completely capable of killing you. Elixir S, however, has only maintained the ability to secure a kill. The Warrior’s Endure Pain neglects incoming attacks for five seconds. While it can be CC’d, they can still use all their other skills, like one to gain stability which would completely circumventing their one downside. No other class can do this. But that doesn’t make it OP. Comparing us to other classes means nothing though, because they are all meant to be different. Although, this must speak volumes to how strong Engineers are perceived, in general. We have to handicap ourselves because our consistent damage is so far advanced than other classes that, if we ever feel like saving ourselves, we have to literally call Time Out for 3s to run away or stab someone in the chest.

2)Endure Pain. Oh, under 60s CD? Well, Mist Form used to. But I wouldn’t use that skill anymore either.

Kalan.9705:

a class defining ability like Elixir-S.

This is ANOTHER question I want to ask. Why do so many people find Elixir-S class-defining? Kit Refinement most definitely was. It complemented an entire tree of playstyles around the mechanic that only the Engineer had and provided players with Utility, Support, and Damage. While Elixir S had wonderful utility, entertaining flavor for the profession, and I loved it just as much as the next user. I just wouldn’t define the class off of something like this.

Especially since Elementalist’s Mist Form is pretty much a direct equivalent to the skill. I mean, both of the skills were nerfed at the same time ensuring they stayed that way.