Guild Wars 2

hackks.3687:

Being allowed to use kits while invulnerable was hilariously OP,

I don’t agree with this at all.

But now it’s hilariously underpowered to the point that I wish the Toss Elixir S was what the regular consume did.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Nilix.2170:

snip
It’s actually not more efficient, just “easier”. I’d call it efficient if they did the same thing. The Elixir gives a solid heal + RNG Boon (+2 Might if traited -1 Condition if traited), The Turret gives a similar heal + half to teammates (I still want to confirm this) – 2 conditions + Water Field

They answer two separate questions. Elixir provides more damage, Turret provides more utility and support. Efficiency is really in the ability of the player to achieve these things constantly. That’s what the Engineer has been about from the beginning.

Constantly or consistently? The Engineer has been known for its wide use of RNG skills, which in practice is inconsistent, which in my view is inefficient; due to not achieving similar results as any other healing skill. Although, since the boons granted are of similar effect is can be assumed that the skill overall efficient.

It also depends on what the meaning of utility and support are defined as, but then again its all contextual as well as entirely situational. So I agree to disagree.

Yes, consistently. And you’re right. Everything is based on context, preference, and situations. But that’s why utility is important.
The way I define utility and support are hopefully pretty similar to what everyone else calls them. Support is how much benefit a skill, or set of skills, can provide for you and your team. Utility is the range of problems that you can solve with your skill, set of skills. For example, the support that Elixir S provided for your team has not changed because its effect on your team has remained the same. But the amount of answers it solves has been limited greatly by the inability to use other skills while under its effect, so its utility has been cut.

When I compare Elixir H to Healing Turret. The Elixir gives you a pretty strong heal that’s a bit more than both the deploy and the overcharge of the turret combined. You also get a boon to go with it. The Healing Turret has a lesser heal but spreads half of it with teammates in range, and gives you a water field, provides a short regen, and also removes 2 conditions. You can argue that the Elixir can remove a condition when traited, but that uses another resource. HT removes conditions and frees up a trait slot for you. Elixir H is useful for you. The Turret is useful to your team at large. The turret is also capable of providing more without it needing to take up trait points. So you can actually go with an Elixir build and be able to remove conditions more often, and provide healing to your teammates by bringing the Turret instead of the Elixir. However, if the HGH might stacks are more important to you than recovery, or if you’re just bad at timing the immediate overcharge (due to lack of practice or simply skill lag in WvW) and keep gimping yourself out of 50% of your heal and prefer something simpler, than by all means, use Elixir H instead.

The differences are clear and well-defined. The turret can come in handy in solving a few more situations than the Elixir does, but those problems are different than Elixir H and the Elixir has its own synergy with different builds and traits, so it maintains its use. Neither has really become unplayable or less viable than the other. That’s what I like about this change. After a bit of practice, the HT is performing more for me than it has before and I can honestly say that all three healing skills are in a pretty nice place for my personal use. However, if they really want the HT to become something that stays out for longer than 3s, they’re going to need to make it last that long against enemy fire.

Phil.6123:

So we all agree that the healing turret needs a buff so that it’s survivability is higher and that the amount of heal that the regen gives be buffed and not the length of time the regen lasts. If these things are addressed the healing turret will be able to be left out, instead of picked up or detonated and will be more useful for group play.

Well, like I said before, in order to change the regen they’d either have to
a) Give you multiple stacks of regen like the Toolbelt skill does
or
b) Change the scaling of regen off of Healing Power overall (Resulting in every class getting a healing buff)

I personally don’t mind the drop in regen time as a tradeoff for the more constant burst. I just need them to buff its defense or add to its health. By the way, Overcharging the Turret gives you that additional 5s of regen, so you can actually get that full 8s just like the old Turret gave if you learn to immediately overcharge. You’ll just continue to get them in 3s increments every 3 rather than 8 every 8 afterwards.

Kimbald.2697:

1)Still: ele’s have it better than engineers I think, in general WvW or pvp use. And we got nerfed on elixir S because they got nerfed. It’s odd to see the reasoning go from ele’s to engineers, but if we pull it through from engineers to warriors, we suddenly are being unreasonable and comparing apples to oranges.

2) You know what I saw elixir S being most powerfull for? Video after video of engineer pvp? An unstoppable stomper! I actually wondered each time: how long are the devs going to allow unstoppable stomping? The healing, or proccing of on heal runes, or the cleanses I personally see as less OP than unstoppable stomping. Funny, seems that’s the one thing they consider ok about elixir S

1) I don’t find it odd at all. And I don’t think you’re being “unreasonable”. I understand the reasoning, I just don’t really find it necessary to make it equivalent. Both skills allow for prevention of damage. Endure Pain allows access to your skills but doesn’t keep you safe from control effects. The other skill prevents Control effects as well but effectively inflicts a stronger version of Daze on you. Both have different benefits and drawbacks. Rather than apples to oranges, it’s more like comparing Frenzy to Haste. If I had the option between the two, I’d take the latter as well. If they nerf Endure Pain to lock out skills, it would be strictly worse than Elixir S. If they made it exactly the same as Elixir S… well, that would just make design seem really lazy. Why do three professions have the same prevention skill?

2) I agree with you here, but at the same time most Professions have at least one way to secure kills. Stability for Guardian/Warrior, Thief has blind and stealth, Elementalist has Mist Form, Mesmers distort, Necro… I actually don’t know what Necro or Ranger has. I come across them even less than Engineers. I’ve even seen FT Engineers use their #5 solely for the kill-securing blind.

Ayestes.1273:

The point is Endure Pain is not immunity. You can still apply control effects and conditions to someone who is under Endure Pain. That means you could interrupt that healing skill or battle standard, while Elixir S and Mist Form made it uninterruptable.

This. Well, sorta. The point of Endure Pain IS immunity, it’s just not as absolute.

Warrior’s Endure Pain is subject to CC. It just can’t take damage. In a game where the meta values damage far more than CC, it is easier to see which is more useful in a vacuum. If it were possible to take Endure Pain on an Engineer, I would definitely take it over Elixir S, because it allows me to do what I used to do with Elixir S, stay alive while fighting without regard for damage.

And please, don’t call for Warriors to get nerfs. That is the last thing the class needs right now and I don’t even play them.

Kimbald.2697:

Must have traits are always bad in this game i think.

Not just for the engineer: must-have traits aren’t good for any profession.

That’s part of why I don’t like small changes such as this one.
They diminish the way we can make non-alchemy builds work a bit.
Elixir S was useful even without any points in Alchemy, simply because you could use med-kit for the cleanse and swiftness to get away.
Now you almost are forced to have cleansing formula 409 to get rid of whatever is holding you back when you pop elixir S.

This would be ok… IF our best builds didn’t already go 20 points in Alchemy at least.
So instead of opening variety of builds, it’s a small push towards the same strong builds again. Kit refinement was the same issue.

Healing turret was a step in the right direction, not perfect but at least it goes away from elixirs and does not rely on any trait in Alchemy.

Almost everything said here is right and my only disappointment is that I was halfway through typing a long post saying exactly this. Once Kit Refinement took that hit, it was effectively gone and HGH became “The Thing”. This is because something really powerful and fun to play with was effectively removed.

Changing Elixir S is doing the same thing but not as heavily. The people who use it proactively can deal with it because they still use it as such. Securing kills in PvP all day every day. But what of all the people using it reactively? What about the people who used the trait for defense? Before, it was a means of just getting away or surviving. Keeping it for defensive reasons requires a completely different kind of play.

So far, I’ve seen some pretty immediate, (and positive) responses in terms of skill opening. If you wanted a Stunbreaker with the similar level of defensive utility that the previous had, take Elixir R instead. It’d refill endurance to allow for dodges instead of invulnerability, break stun, and allow me to use skills, works with the same traits, can heal me while downed or cleanse conditions without any trait support. Is this build opening? Perhaps. More people are taking another skill because Elixir S’s use has become more specific and defined. Since it no longer suits their needs and playstyle, they will move on to something similar or simply play differently. Those that like it for the ability to Stomp without rejection will hold to it because that’s what they used it for. Those that need defense will either play it differently, move on to a different skill, or a completely different build altogether. Luckily, this skill is not as build integral as KR and an equivalent option does exist, so you won’t see a build saturation like the last patch caused. It’s too early to say but this might just be a success.

The Auto Elixir S (Self-Regulating Defenses) trait, however, will not have as good a result. Before this patch, I would swap between Elixir S and Protection Injection based on the kind of fights I would plan to have or ways to compensate from what my Sigils or Skills don’t already assist in. Now, I see no reason to take the former trait because it interrupts me out of my own skills and dazes me for 3s. The inability to heal or cleanse conditions isn’t worth being invulnerable. An immobilize or cripple would very well prevent you from making any kind of escape. Other conditions will simply rip at your already low HP. Automated Response doesn’t remove conditions from you so there’s no Synergy there either. At this point, it’s a trait that’s only good if you’re going full 30 Elixir line with SRE/409/HGH, because otherwise the tradeoff is awful. You need other traits to justify the use of a trait! That’s terrible (And I’d probably still take Protection Injection over it.)

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You mean a Elixir that requires traits to be comparable in function, gives you 3x the regen 1/3 of the time, and only benefits yourself vs a Turret that supplies a 3s Water Field, AOE Regen, can have a similar healing strength to the Elixir if you learn how to instantly overcharge it after dropping, provides another Water Field in its Toolbelt slot, does all of this with no trait support, and is probably due for another buff since it doesn’t actually promote keeping it out on the field as much as they hoped.

The choice is actually really easy when you think about it.

Usefulness promotes staying in range. Like Time Warp. The duration is low, and the CD is high, but the effect is potent. Immediate, unfiltered destruction of opposing forces. When you see that bubble, you get in it and you wreck faces. However, potency requires balance. Lengthening the regen wouldn’t make me want to stay in range. If I gained 10s of regen every 3s, I can sit in there for 10s, get 30s of duration and then leave. If I got 10s of regen every 10s, I’d sit there for 2s, get 10s, and get out. Combat requires people to be mobile. There has to be reason for me to want to stay in range.

The way that regen, and healing in general, scales against damage, it’s honestly not worth it for me to save my healing turret. Attempting to heal my turret requires being in melee range of it, I can heal it for 500 every Smack swing, it can heal me for 2000 every 15 when overcharged, + 2-300 every 1 from regen. But everyone else is hitting it, and me, for 1000 with AOE at range. Damage simply does more for less, and the fact that it’s one of the lowest health of the turrets doesn’t help at all. If they wanted the healing turret to matter, it would need “LONGEVITY” or mobility… something.

They could completely remove the regen and replace it with a flat 1000 heal and 3s protection instead to every ally in range every 4s. That would be super useful. But it wouldn’t mean anything if it couldn’t stand up for 2.

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t believe they contradict each other. Chaba is simply saying that the Healing Turret tooltip said it cured all conditions, but Nick is saying tooltips don’t always reflect functionality, as evidenced by the Scope trait we all know to be bunked. It says one thing and does another (“another” being nothing lol…).

I wasn’t really referring to Chaba and Nick. I was referring to Nick saying that it removes 2 and Phil saying it removes all. Two different people that swear by two different experiences of the same thing. Someone has to be wrong, but like I said, it really doesn’t matter.

Phil.6123:

1)Adamantium and Nilix, the wiki shows every skill update in the game. When a skill is buffed, nerfed, or changed, it is updated at the wiki. I am very experienced with this class, I have proof and evidence to support me.
2)And Nilix to answer your question, Karl the developer said that he wanted the turret to be a team support and to avoid people abusing dropping it, cleansing burst, and picking it up. The turret was also used for team regen support.

You’re right. It’s done whenever something gets changed. However, I believe this is the first patch-related change that Cleansing Mist has had. It is possible that ArenaNet never addressed the tooltip saying it cures only 2 conditions until just now. It is also possible that no one has ever gone into the Cleansing Mist page and recorded a ‘bug’ saying that it only cures 2 conditions. Probably because most Healing Turret users would detonate it anyway, myself included. There are very few among us equipped with that knowledge. And those who did have the knowledge may not have edited it.

But let’s let that aside.

2)This is what I want to get to. Because I personally disagree with your approach. Karl’s concept was changing the long regen boost (8s regen every 8s) into a shorter burst of regen (3s regen every 3s). Because it’s shorter, you don’t get as much of a benefit by picking it up. The longer it’s around, the longer you enjoy it’s benefits. People that stack boon duration would need to have it out longer because the amount of bonus regen they produce is lessened per wave.

For example: With 50% boon duration 8s of regen becomes 12s, but 3s of regen only because 4.5. That’s 1.5s(which can round down to 1s) as opposed to 4. Which is a base healing difference of 390.

With longer regen times, you’re actually less inclined to care about detonating/picking your turret up, because you have a good amount of regen stacked up. So in truth, lengthening the regen wouldn’t help at all. If anything, it’ll just promote it because 12s of regen is better than 4s. If you REALLY cared about regen, you could have gotten enough boon duration for it to last nearly 15s, which is the amount of time it would take for your turret to come off of cooldown, so you can drop it again. Voila, perma-regen.

I agree with Karl’s thinking: Shorter, swifter bursts promote keeping it out and keeping it alive because you get the bonus more often, and you lose it faster when it’s out of play. The real problem is the fact that they die so fast in the first place. This is why there’s no incentive to keep it out. You are better off practicing how to instant overcharge and detonate, than you are to wait even the three seconds it takes for the second pulse. Because those three seconds are all it takes for you to waste 3-4k HP worth of healing.

Phil.6123:

Nilix, it is in the wiki itself and I know this from experience. If you do not want to accept it being on the wiki or from experience I do not know what to tell you. You can view the history of the wiki on cleansing burst, it has cured conditions ever since.

I am listening to experience.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Chaba.5410:

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

And Scopes tooltip says it gives 10% crit chance when you stand still.
It has always removed 2 condition from the 1800+ hrs I have played on my Engineer.

I don’t know WHO to believe. One of you is either lying or don’t know what you’re talking about. And I’d love to listen to the wiki, but it is often unused and unedited in numerous places that I just can’t bring myself to do so. Some of the information might just be there simply because that’s what tooltips say so that’s how it “should” work.

But arguing about what the truth of the past was really doesn’t matter because that’s not the game we live in now. What I want to ask you is why do you think improving the regen would actually make me want to leave the turret out, as opposed to deploy → Overcharge → Detonate

Phil.6123:

Also here is proof for how the nerfed cleansing burst, not by the CD, but the condition removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Cleansing_Burst&oldid=537307

According to people who have actually used the old version, it has only ever cleansed two conditions even prepatch. I can’t personally attest to this, but with multiple people saying this, you can simply consider this a tooltip fix rather than a nerf.

So the CR stays the same, is a lot more instant, had its heal effectively doubled to compensate the halved heal of the initial drop, and has a CD reduction.

Phil.6123:

Adamantium, the regen of the turret is less. Look at the numbers for yourself. I am just talking about the regen. They lowered the regen.

The regen wasn’t lowered. Only the duration of it. This was to compensate for the current reality. You used to get around 10s of it pre-patch, but that was because the Turret triggered every 10s.
So now you have a 3s regen buff every 3s, because a 10s regen trigger every 3s would be silly. You could be in the far point in tPvP and just sit with that Turret for a full 30s. That would give you 100s of regen with 0% Boon Duration. For my build that focuses on healing, that would give me 25700.

Phil.6123:

Okay, I admit, cleansing burst once every 15 seconds is great, but the regular regen for the turret was lowered bad. Before the patch, my regen for the turret was a lot higher. I am actually getting less hp a second with this new patch with the turret, even without the cleansing burst. I have the same gear and everything. Because the regen is lowered by about 50% you are losing 50% more regen per second.

Double check your armor/amulet or something. For you to be regenerating less hp/s, either regeneration’s HP scaling would have had to change or you simply have less Healing Power than the last time you checked.

Soon.5240:

Penguin.5197:

Soon.5240:

I’m running a pretty cool build, but I’m too nervous to discuss it…. Big Brother is listening. Maybe I shouldn’t even have posted this!!

ps, I’m only half joking.

See too late they heard, now the’re gonna nerf the healing bomb/elixir kit/healing turret build cause of you >:(

Uh… Uh… no, NO! It’s the Technobabble, Slick Shoes, Battering Ram while eating Eda’s Apple Pie Build… yeah, that’s it…

leave me alone Big Brother, please…. I’m begging you….

SOON!

Phineas Poe.3018:

hydeaut.1758:

This change both hits the Elixir and the auto-elixir trait where I could go into med-kit, which gave me heal-packs, speed, 1 condition remove, vigor if traited – no big deal, of course . . .

I don’t really see how you think a traited Elixir S having a stunbreaker, curing a condition, granting 2 stacks of Might, and giving 3-second immunity isn’t powerful enough on its own … on top of adding another stack of Might, curing another condition, and giving Stability/Stealth all in one utility slot.

This is QQ. Plain and simple.

Elixir S was changed alongside Mist Form because they do not want these skills to work like that. Not sure why people are so up in arms about this change.

I haven’t been playing HGH. I also don’t take the Elixir S skill on its own. But the Elixir S trait used to be an “in case kitten happens, drink glass” failsafe. I can tell you right now that three second immunity actually doesn’t do much when you can’t do anything but move. You get to relax your nerves, run out of a danger zone, get 3s of your cooldowns returned, probably move your camera into a better angle… and then everything happens all over again. Hopefully, you can run into your group who can save you from possible destruction. If you’re alone, you’ll be chased. You’re at 25% HP with no means to actively do anything harmful to them or beneficial to yourself, so there’s nothing for your opponent to worry about. They also get 3s of time to relax and regain their composure. The difference is that they can set themselves up for success while you’re dillydallying. The current Elixir S says “Become invulnerable and dazed.” I prefer Protection Injection to it very much now.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Ostricheggs.3742:

*snip

There’s only a .5 second cast time on healing turret and both the overcharge and the detonate have no cast time allowing a very rapid heal. One button doesn’t make H better.

But only using one button makes it more efficient, though having split into two parts adds some more interesting combos we can utilize and as an engi; more buttons = more versatility.

It’s actually not more efficient, just “easier”. I’d call it efficient if they did the same thing. The Elixir gives a solid heal + RNG Boon (+2 Might if traited -1 Condition if traited), The Turret gives a similar heal + half to teammates (I still want to confirm this) – 2 conditions + Water Field

They answer two separate questions. Elixir provides more damage, Turret provides more utility and support. Efficiency is really in the ability of the player to achieve these things constantly. That’s what the Engineer has been about from the beginning.

Seras.5702:

People drop Rocket Turret & Net Turret & Rifle Turret & Thumper Turret in anticipation of a fight. Why is Healing Turret any different? Why are people using it as an immediate, on-demand heal? Shouldn’t it be dropped ahead of time like the other turrets too?

Because it IS an immediate on-demand heal. Having it out before would be a waste.

Before this patch, if you dropped it ahead of time, you are effectively locking yourself out of a 5-6k heal. When the turret goes down, you are without the capacity to heal yourself for 20s (15 if you picked it up). That’s long enough to die. You would need to be in range of Cleansing Burst to get its effect and you’d also have to wait at most 10s for it to actually happen. So, using it to clear up conditions 5-10s after you’ve gotten them isn’t effective cleansing at all. This is why it’s was a drop-and-pop relationship.

Post-patch, dropping it ahead of time isn’t as wasteful since you can still get a 2k heal within 3s. But doesn’t really give you too much benefit. With some boon duration, you can stock up on regen as it goes off. The Water Field from the burst says it lasts 5s, so you can get off a number of blast finishers in there if that’s your kind of thing.

Terrahero.9358:

Which sounds great except for skill delay… Welcome to WvW!~

And then i suddenly have to wait 3sec before i get my full heal, as opposed to getting it in full upfront before. Not to mention a 3sec window for my Turret to get destroyed.

Skill delay? You mean like… lag? Can’t really say much about that but this is why I’m saying to watch your animation. When your character’s arm goes down to drop it, you get your full heal anyway.

Chaba.5410:

I haven’t used Elixir S in awhile (or the related 25% health trait). I used to have problems with both where it seemed like it activated but then I was dead, like maybe it was confusion or some other condition that continued to be active and kill me even though I was supposedly invulnerable.

Yeah, Elixir S doesn’t cure conditions. So if you’re burning/poisoned/confused, you’d still take damage from those. Which is another thing that REALLY bothers me about this change. I can’t Elixir C those conditions away while I’m small anymore.

It’s not that hard. It’s really similar to many of our skill rotations. It’s much more useful to learn how to time it right, gives the player more confidence in its ability to work. Especially as an Engineer player, where timing and kit rotations are so integral to how many of us play.

Just give yourself a few minutes practicing it, and you’ll get it down.

lindstroem.3601:

Doesnt change anything on the mechanic. It just seems that you can use the first pulse if you hammering your keys fast enough.

You’re right it doesn’t. But since he was specifically asking for the maximum, most effective heal, I just wanted to make sure he understood it was possible to get it all immediately like before. If you trigger Cleansing Burst before the first tick (i.e. Hit your heal skill while in the animation of dropping the turret), you can get the Cleansing Burst heal on the first pulse. It takes a bit more effort now but half of your healing potential can go to your teammates as well so it’s actually a wonderful trade off.

ANet boosted the long term effectiveness while keeping the immediate healing potential intact.

CriSPeH.8512:

^
I object.
You do not run away really fast.
Just seems that way because of our tiny legs.
Really we just run as fast as the enemy does right beside us waiting to further punish us or force us into also using 2 dodges.
;)

Luckily for me, I am almost always stacking seconds of Swiftness from Speedy Kits. So, I’m always going fast. I just wish they properly fixed runes of speed instead of giving up and just making it +5% MS.

lunyboy.8672:

lunyboy.8672:

So once the Cleansing burst happens, you get the second heal and the water field? So for maximum fast heals (or almost the same as before) you double tap 6 then F1 to detonate as soon as you see the regen come up on your buff bar?

Again, you dont get the water field on overcharging the turret, you get it from the next pulse after the overcharge.

You can still overcharge it immediately to make the first pulse grant the Cleansing Burst.

lunyboy.8672:

So once the Cleansing burst happens, you get the second heal and the water field? So for maximum fast heals (or almost the same as before) you double tap 6 then F1 to detonate as soon as you see the regen come up on your buff bar?

Yep. To be 100% sure, make sure that your character is in the middle of the animation where he/she drops the turret.

hydeaut.1758:

hydeaut.1758:

No healskills while in Elixir S is a heavy nerf . . .

No it’s not…. use your heal then use elixir s. It doesn’t cancel it.

But using kits while elixir s, yes thats a nerf

If you get hit to below 25% while trying to heal and your Elixir S trait triggers, guess what just got interrupted… I don’t see much of a use of Elixir S now. Without the ability to use… anything, it’s just three seconds of trying to run away really fast while your opponents’ chase as their CDs refresh. Swapping to Injection Protection.

Grackleflint.4956:

Cleansing Burst skill: The following changes, while good, will not matter until turret overcharge skills activate immediately. This laundry list of benefits is useless without the turret able to survive long enough to trigger them.

I have tested it and practiced it to the point that I can do it 10 times in a row.
You can immediately overcharge the turret and on the first proc, you will get the Cleansing burst heal. The moment the turret is deployed you have about .5 seconds to hit the key again so that Cleansing Burst triggers on first wave. If you miss, you’ll have to wait 3s when the next regen wave happens.

Either
a) AOE Knockback just like Throw Mine
b)Rocket Boots makes you do a really really cool backflip that would make every thief so jealous, that they’d buy it from you right after we get nerfed down to Merchants.

I’m actually glad boon-hate is on the rise because having a hard counter means that my opponents have a way to win. And with a means of winning, there is no excuse for losing other than not being good enough. I’m really glad ANet’s going this route rather than the supposed “nerf might stacks”. The current solution might not be optimal for the opponents for now, but I can rest easy since it seems they are promoting success through active play rather than shooting me at the knee caps. Watch your might stacks, brothers. The game is changing.

Hybelkaninen.3087:

Lunatic.9314:

Kensei.1495:

So i play a thief and a mesmer.
Yesterday Ive been making an engi for fun, and actually tried a “HGH” build in pvp.

tl:dr OMMMGGG I LOVE ENGI

So, i was wondering if you guys could give me some advices for leveling up to 80.

thank you in advance

Im new to engineer, can someone please tell me what all this HGH build is that i keep on seeing?

HGH is a trait.
HGH gives all elixirs 1 stack of Might…so your build is centered around popping as many elixirs as you can throughout a fight.
Too many can’t live without it, but to me it’s nothing but a ticket to the next AE (Anonymous Engineers) meeting.
It can be powerful, but also brain numbingly boring.

So…like alcohol?

Welp, I know what I’m going to work on in Maya now.

Looks like 10321 With [Forceful Explosives|Cloaking Device/X/Elixir-Infused Bombs|Invigorating Speed/X|Speedy Kits]. Couldn’t tell what two of the traits were though. It looked like Backpack Regenerator for a while but that didn’t make sense because he had an extra heal when he wasn’t in a kit. They might have been Power Shoes/Potent Elixirs
One of the weapon Sigils was Sigil of Battle… and that’s all I can tell.

godmoney.6025:

Does Protective Shield reduce the damage of the first critical hit that activates it, or will you eat the full damage of the first critical hit?

I’m 90% sure you eat the full damage of the crit first. Although, this is just the programmer in me talking. If you gave me the decision to have a trait check if you’ve taken a critical hit and apply protection or to check if a hit would be a crit, apply the protection first, and then deal the damage, I’d take the straight-forward, less exploitable, simpler to implement route.

I have never wanted to play a Ranger before this moment. I love watching SW games.

mintberry.9013:

1)do you think they compare with aegis, reflection walls, might buffs etc. a guardian has, or the time warp, boon signet reflection walls, stealth and damage a mesmer has to help out a group?

2)Engi’s can run any dungeon we are just not as good as most classes. The reduced effectiveness off weakness and vulnerability on champs/legendary doesn’t help.

3)For almost all bosses/dungeons a certain damage cycle is the best in the build. Those variations you show are nice but do you find exploding turrets in combo fields as strong as the nade variant in dungeons?

1) I do. Mainly because I find myself doing all those things when someone in the party can’t. Outside of Time Warp and Aegis, I can manage any of those. I fill gaps while providing things that the usual gap filler does not.

2)But that’s fine. Like you said I really enjoy EG. That’s where the support really Engineer shines, we apply weakness about as fast as they remove it. 50% Condition Duration says that it’s up indefinitely. Without it, the range of time where it’s not up is about… 1/4s. Even outside of Dungeons, I’ve seen wipes happen at things like Dwayna or the front gate of Arah. Often times, these things happen right after I stop spamming autoattack on my EG because I’m picking a fallen person up. It sounds self-important, but Crystal Desert does get dry spells in PvE activity. Having a < 10 person group attempting Dwayna isn’t uncommon for me.

3) As “strong”? No. Not really, but it’s also not that “useful” for much else. I don’t usually build primarily for strength. That is probably where I and most other players in general, diverge. It really helps that all classes can do damage in some way, so I can almost always rely on the rest of the team to do considerable amounts of damage. People will ALWAYS spec for it in PvE. I generally take either Grenade or Bomb Kit anyway, because they provide a lot of Power/Conditions as WELL as the control/support that I usually work with. However, my main focus is situational support and making sure that it’s easily changeable.

I don’t know how often other classes, or other players in general, swap their skills between fights, but I almost always do. Half because I like playing with different things, half because some things are more effective in other situations. Things change depending on what kind of tactics we’re employing, and what kind of problems the builds other people are playing aren’t equipped for. For a boss fight in a Fractal, let’s say Cliffside’s boss because you have a 99% chance to go there in a Fractal run, I might run EG and Elixir R. Depending on whether my team’s DPS is good or not, I’d either take Grenade Kit or Net Turret.

There are usually things that are more ‘efficient’ or ‘faster’, but some people play really well in different ways. I could go over a list of utility combinations that I employ during those kinds of fights, but it wouldn’t really help anyone else much unless they’re comfortable playing that way. Someone might suck at HGH, which I find super simple, but could be pro at tossing Turrets, Mines and such so she can set up for a nice quint blast of might/stealth, or just maintaining 6-9 stacks on the team over time in general (Thumper/Mine/Bomb Kit). Sure, an Ele or Guard can accomplish the same thing, but whether or not they are doing so is paramount. Can they do it and provide 5 forms of knockback(which just so happens to be enough to remove all the stacks of Unshakeable in a dungeon)? Utility is situational. I find that the Engineer is useful in every situation simply because I can do just about anything that other classes manage to do reliably (except Stability. Or Fear… but that’s why I buy those Grawl Ritual totem Environment Weapons every now and then) Whether it’s “as easy” is irrelevant to my usefulness.

I love this map, even in Solo Q, because running the Orb is entertaining. Also, I don’t really see how the map that requires the most different tactics, locks people into certain builds. If anything, the meta that came before it has already done this and Spirit Watch simply allowed for different ones to be useful. SW simply requires different tactics than the other maps. Tactics that I gladly love to play with. The fact that someone even mentioned an Engineer using Elixir X tells me that this map is doing something really great.

HPLT.7132:

This map is actually very frustrating. At least one HGH engenieer who spamms grenades from one of the colums all day long .Then 2 Eles (preferably with arcane shield) which either roaming or capturing the Orb. Maybe a guard with focus which can also capture the Orb fast and a Thief/Mesmer and here you have your META build for spirit watch. Its like the META build on the other maps and you cant do a kitten actually. They run into the first fight with 25 mightstacks up thanks to eles and guard. If you focus on Orb 3 of these guys will just block your damage away in the right Moment. If you focus on point they also have an advantage due to the combination of good burst and heal.
Its not even funny anymore…And its not a L2 kitten ue. Especially the engenieers are ridicoulus (sorry bro’s but 25 might stacks + the conditions they apply that fast that not even a cantrip ele can remove them [who is best condition remover in game] is way over the top).

It’s funny because I think, right now, the best condition removers in the game are the Elixir Engineers themselves. Cleansing Formula 409, 4 Elixirs with one of them being Elixir C. Not only do you cleanse them as they come, but you reap benefits as you do it. Like MIGHT STACKS, RANDOM BOONS, QUICKNESS, PROTECTION or whatever combination of Elixir effects they chose to take.

But in truth, it’s not that Engineers need a nerf. The hurt is simply being applied more effectively since the Kit Refinement change lowered the number of builds that most Engineers choose to bring into PvP. What really needs to happen is a buff to Boon Removal. Stuns and Stability are all very important to PvP in general. HGH throws a middle finger to both. Boon Removal is a big kick in the face to that, as well as the Stability that everyone cries about on bunkers or orb runners in SW. However, no one runs it except for some Necros and, of course, other Engineers (lol we only do everything). If that were improved, there would be more effective ways to counter those things.

Of course, if everyone refuses to budge, the meta will simply remain the same.

MrSilver.5269:

Thanks for the link.

I don’t see how it would be too powerful… but even still isn’t a compromise to bump it up to 30-45 second cooldown, and remove the global.

Well, let me put it this way. We currently have
2s Fire Aura, 2s Reflect Aura, Glue Puddles, Magnet Bomb, Mine, 2s Super Speed

My favorite combination in here is Glue Puddles, Magnet Bomb, Mine. You can drop magnet bomb, drop mine, as they are interrupted and pulled into the mine swap to bomb, Glue Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Napalm Bomb, Elixir Gun, Acid Bomb away while making more trails of immobilize, swap to Grenades and then nuke the location. Depending on traits, you could have given them about 14 stacks of vulnerability, and it would only increase with your grenade tosses. I don’t know if you can consider that “too powerful”, but I really want them to drop the global CD so I can test it for myself. An AOE interrupt that pulls people into one place sounds very exploitable.

mintberry.9013:

We don’t offer much to a party but (almost) any group composition can successfully run any dungeon. We don’t have any real group buffs and the skills that help the party can be done better by other classes. It’s pretty difficult to determine in pvp if a class is good, but in dungeons it is clear we are lacking. And since our traits determine which skills we should use we can’t change much skills on the fly depending on the boss fight.

I absolutely disagree. We have the widest array of condition spam, easiest spammable weakness, great AOE damage and support, combo fields and finishers for area boons.

Also, that trait thing is just silly. Don’t think that just because you’re traited into something means you have to use it. You can do just as well without having a certain utility traited if it’s a single scenario that you’re having problems with. That’s what Engineers do; solve problems. I do it all the time. If a skill you have can mean the difference between you and your team going forward, you should utilize it.

But just for you, I’ve actually been working on finding the best setup for “trait sideboarding”. After KR died, I retraited at LEAST 12 times (Yes, I counted and got tired of counting) to find out how I wanted to keep playing this game. I have finally settled into 3/0/0/2/2. It gives me access to all the explosion based traits(larger bombs and mines, reduced CD on bombs and grenades, explosion damage increase, grenadier if I wanted to use it), most of the Elixir based traits(everything but HGH), and a host of really useful defensive and offensive passives(Auto Elixir S, 3 Might on Heal Use, Turrets cause knockback, Regen on Kit, Vigor on Swiftness, Protection on Disable). 20 in Tools gives me access to every Tool trait that’s actually important: Speedy Kits, Static Discharge, Speedy Gadgets, Power Wrench, Deployable Turrets, Packaged Stimulants, and Kit Refinement (which can have its uses every now and then). There was even a time where I actually took Always Prepared and got downed on purpose so that I can get a teammate an Elixir Gun. We spammed weakness and healing Light Fields like nobody’s business.

With 30022, I can be in the back dealing massive damage with Grenades, and then switch to something that’s focused on kiting with bombs, and then switch to something that utilizes exploding Turrets and fields, and switch to something with Elixir Gun and CC. It’s my favorite setup for the Engineer because it actually grants me the versatility that this profession was supposedly about.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yeah, separate cooldowns was on the table, but it put the trait into the a little too powerful category. It’s entirely possible that we’ll revisit this trait again at some point, but for now that’s why it is the way it is.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Tpvp-Turret-Engineer-videos/page/2#post1778473
They know.

jcbroe.4329:

Kardiamond.6952:

Thesilentflute.8761:

I think there immunity to dmg potion needs nerfed more than anything whats the cd on it? I have 120s on my ranger at the cost of a trait and a skill and I still take trap dmg while its active.

Only immune to direct damage.

We still take condition damage.

And it’s a 60 sec cooldown.

Ranger got “protect me”, which give a similar effect for 6 second.

Which kills the class mechanic which makes up for a large portion or damage and yet another portion of utility. If swapped correctly no, but then it isn’t lasting anywhere near 6s.

Elixir S also disables the Engineer’s toolbelt. So, I think it is a pretty good comparison. Invulnerability at the cost of your non-utility spells.

Kimbald.2697:

Ostricheggs.3742:

jcbroe.4329:

NevirSayDie.6235:

jcbroe.4329:

Hmm? I thought it was being run with Carrion, not rabid. I have only watched Teldo play engy though, so I can’t really speak from an area of knowing anything about it.

Edit: whoops, meant rampagers.

It can be run with rampager’s as well, but it’s not a great choice because you actually lose over 200 condition damage in addition to then having base toughness. So the extra couple hundred power and precision is cool but just not worth it unless you plan on never getting hit. Teldo can do that because he’s Teldo.

It’s the exact reason why, even though I find his streams entertaining, I can’t stand the builds he uses lol. They are very specific and somehow work for him very well though.

ahaha. I used to watch his stream a long time ago. I think he ran bomb kit and flamethrower back in the day when elixir R on reset with bomb/nade was just ridiculous.

I kittening hate his builds so much but he just plays so well he overcomes it. He’s kitten good.

I hate HGH p/p condition burst as an engineer as well.
It simply doesn’t feel like an engineer at all, drinking energy drinks all day and compiling code. Where are the mechanics, the thingamagicks?.

Working. As. Intended.

I wish there was a Magnet Turret…

LotuS.4378:

Good side of Engi?

90% of community underestimate us in WvW/sPvP/tPvP, and then BOOM! they are dead.

Because no one knows what we’re good at or even supposed to do… which is another good thing. You never know what will happen next.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Punkins.2087:

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

I think HGH is greatly overrated.

It’s good enough for people to complain about it on the Structured PvP forums.

HAHAHA. Oh man, this thread actually happened.

jportell.2197:

Other game modes would help eliminate the lack of builds because classes have good builds that are viable… Just not viable inside the current game mode.

I really agree with this. The Spirit Watch map is probably the best case of this. One of my Engineer setups does nothing but toss people off of his back. Rifle, Throw Mine, Elixir C, Supply Crate, Bomb Kit (which comes with Big Ol’ Bomb, Smoke Bomb and Sticky Bomb). I’ve used Med Kit, but Heal Turret with Accelerant Packed Turrets knocks people off just as well. It’s a setup entirely for knocking people away from me. And it works when I have the orb, babysitting people with the orb, knocking people with the Orb away, disrupting fights, and the like. Low on the damage end, but no one kills me because Cleric’s Amulet takes care of me.

But from skating across other boards, and sitting around the Engineer forum mainly, everyone seems to focus on damage all the time. Killing people is the simplest solution to relieve pressures. To the point where the entire game is filled with bloodthirsty players. Half the time, I’ve been focusing on finding ways to run away and stay alive. Simply because I know people will chase and my teammates can capture points from behind. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m still playing low levels and hotjoins but people are like this.

If there were different PvP modes, we could probably get more builds rotating since there’d be more reasons to do things other than just vomit damage all over opponents. Spirit Watch was a step in the right direction. For me, at least. Just keep doing it. That way, I can make more CC setups for them and laugh at people who fall off of cliffs and bridges.

(Please add more cliffs and bridges for people to fall from)

hackks.3687:

People will adjust though and condi’s won’t seem so overwhelming.

This is the other thing that needs to happen. Maybe it’s because I focus on support a lot but a good amount of the time that I’m down, I’m studying the skills that opponent’s are using to beat me, and figuring out what I’d need to avoid or block or trigger some kind of cc to counter. Sometimes I swap a skill out simply because it’ll help me against “That One Guy” who roams the map trying to kill me. I like CC and knockdowns and watching people die around me simply because I was the wrong person to focus.

HGH is countered by boon removal. Want to counter it? Here
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Skills_that_remove_boons
Half of the professions do this. (One of them is the Engineer themselves, dohoho. Better carry that Throw Mine.) How often do they take those skills? Who knows? Null Field those 20 stacks of Might, all of the conditions he’s inflicted, and go back to start. Too long of a CD? Use Shattered Concentration. Take Bountiful Theft and steal those stacks for yourself. A quick Corrupt Boon can turn the tide against an HGH. But even that can be easily reversed with an Elixir C, but like I said. Who knows?

Engineer was the least played class, last I heard. So even if HGH becomes rampant, it won’t be that prominent. However, you could probably hazard a guess that the majority of the ones you see, especially in tPvP, will be spitting out conditions and cleansing their own, while gaining might, all game. You will see very little else.

Throw Mine is a bit different than the other gadgets as it has been the focus of many buffs and fixes. It also has four traits that support it because it counts as an explosion and a gadget (adds vulnerability, 10% explosion damage, lower cooldown, and larger blast radius). All the other gadgets can use some love like that.

Just want to say that we should probably keep the KR and various buff suggestions to a minimum in a thread discussing a certain build/playstyle.

Ehh, Elixirs just follow the current straightforward meta. They’re simple to play, simple to trait for, easy to use and maintain, and have a lot of get out of jail free cards. I wouldn’t really call it the most versatile but it’s just the most survivable against human opponents when you stand alone. It’s a build that easily removes the most common threats while increasing damage with the least maintenance.

And it doesnt give you everything. They don’t give me any fields aside aside I take Elixir U. And they don’t have any options for control, which is probably my favorite part of the class.

Low. There’s really no reason to do so.

nakoda.4213:

how would this destroy their independence?

right now all you get is an over charge after you put it down.

the idea i posted would allow you to drop the turret (or deploy it, trait depending) and then it is still on it’s own. This idea allows you to then swap to the turrets “controls” to reasign a target or drop down some extra abilities, or use the over charge, or pick it back up again.

not sure where that ruins their independence or interferes with current swapping capabilities.

the whole premise is that each turret is it’s own kit. the utility slot is the “swap to kit” just like any kit, and you get a full bar of 5 abilities, then you swap out to something else, just like we do now.

this idea was a reaction an idea to put all turrets in one kit, which i believe would be far too limiting. rather, increase the utility and function of each turret by giving it its own “kit”

controlling them one at a time is the idea.

ie: possible combo using idea above:
net shot (toolbelt) -> drop net turret -> overcharge (skill #4) -> ft 2 -> caltrops in radius around turret (say, kit #2) -> ft 3 -> oil slick (net turret #1, perhaps) -> ft 1 (ignites the oil)

or whatever, really. i don’t see this idea hindering the play or use of your turrets at all, especially since we can swap kits at will. you still place then and let them do their thing. the kit abilities are extra utilities built in to the turrets and the “kit” is like your remote control.

you could be on one side of a point fighting, your allies on the other near your turrets, and swap to turret skills to aid allies while still engaging a foe where you are, slick as chicken louie.

But swapping through all those turret kits would proc my KR triggers!! [insert-completely-unrelated-and-ridiculous-KR-complaints]

But on a serious note, Turrets would become indistinguishable from Kits by design. I was against the original “Turret Kit” idea because it compresses an entire mechanic into a single skill. ANet would then have to create four new skills to readjust for decrease in total skills. Then the turrets would have to be balanced for all being available in a single kit… It would be way too much of an overhaul of how it works. Your idea doesn’t have half of those problems but still maintains the core issue. I don’t think ANet wants the Turret method of play(MoP) being similar to the Kit MoP.

And when he means, independence, he’s talking about how this change would make the turrets a lot more manual. They would lose their “Drop it and let it work” style in favor of something that you actually want to spend time micromanaging. And while I do enjoy the micro that Engineer gives me, I don’t think every part of it should require it. Turrets are a refreshing level of simplicity in a profession that I spend time creating and practicing 13 step combo chains. (And even then, turrets are often a part of them)

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yeah, separate cooldowns was on the table, but it put the trait into the a little too powerful category. It’s entirely possible that we’ll revisit this trait again at some point, but for now that’s why it is the way it is.

I figured. Was it the combination of things like Grenade Kit > Bomb Kit or EG > GK > BK? Because every time I played that working out in my head, I saw a lot of damage, vulnerability stacks, and general “You can’t really deal with this without a blo- oh wait Throw Minewww” nonsense. The Offensive/Defensive capabilities of such a thing is strong enough to be considered a second Toolbelt.

Protip: No one would be sad if you made it powerful and swapped it with Adrenal implant or Armor Mods in Grandmaster. In fact, you’d probably find more people going deeper into the Tools line for it.

But let me not detract too much from the topic at hand, I’m certain you’ve read the same thing over and over in this tear-stained corner of the forums.

However, one thing I’ve noticed is that your setup is really good with KR. For me, anyway. I find that, when it comes to Bomb and Med Kit, I do the least amount of switching than any kit swapping than any other kit. Probably because the Toolbelt skills are perhaps the strongest part out of the arsenal. I can also go longer than usual without having to swap into them, or needing another kit for whatever purpose. The only gripe is that desire to spam Speedy Kits triggers, but I’ve gotten accustomed to the usefulness of Power Shoes when it comes to both chasing and running away. If it were me, I’d probably go with
-10 Alchemy +10 Inventions (Power Shoes)
-5 Tools +5 Explosives (since I’d want Inertial Converter with Med Kit’s main heal on your toolbelt)

Zenguy.6421:

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

• Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
• Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
  Thanks.

Ever since Kit Refinement changed, I have been retraiting DAILY because I can no longer settle on how I want to play anymore. Since I’ve always been support over damage, it’s really hard to determine what will replace that new gap. Losing three spells simultaneously really hurt. I’ve been feeling buyer’s remorse over all the armor and runes I bought. Especially now that the Runes of Speed got changed to just +5% speed. I was hoping I’d have a leg up on chasing people one day when they fixed it but I digress.

Anyway, after about a week of trying to “live with my loss”, I’ve dropped it in favor of Speedy Kits. KR’s global CD doesn’t synergize with my desire to use SK at all times and I much prefer consistent speed that I don’t have to think about. I used to use both since it’s much easier to spread the Glue trail in swiftness, but the moments that it doesn’t come out because you swapped to another kit too recently screws up entry tactics. When they lift the GCD, I may attempt it again. But right now, it doesn’t sit well with me since I use 3 kits most of the time.

EG/BK was interesting.
Forceful Explosives, Short Fuse
Sitting Duck,
Stabilized Armor, Power Shoes
Protection Injection
Kit Refinement
It’s mainly melee range kiting around your opponents with the Bomb Kit and utilizing the Glue Trail from EG to immobilize your opponent and stacking 25 vulnerability within a matter of seconds. Swap to EG, use Elixir F, swap to Bomb and dance around their body as 15-25 stacks of vuln apply themselves. Nicely used with Rifle or Double Pistol for more immobilize, although I prefer Rifle due to its reliance on Power and ability to be used as a gap closer.
EG, Elixir F, Bomb, 4, 3, 2, 5, 1, EG, Big Ol’ Bomb, Acid Bomb, Jump Cancel, Rifle, (Big Ol’ Bomb usually explodes here), Jump Shot, Net Shot Mind you, this is just between the two kits. I haven’t solidified what I’d like for a third skill but that’s totally up to you. Elixir S, U, Slick Shoes, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, have all worked out for me.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Digikid.7230:

I had the idea that they should just replace the darn thing- we already have a turret elite (supply crate), I was thinking along the lines of replacing the mortar with a jetpack or something.

Yes, Engineers must be solidified in the one thing they do better than everyone else:
Cheat in jumping puzzles!
Thus, JETPACK!

An Elite that does nothing damage wise, but gets us where no one else could go normally? I like this. You could probably reach the Son of Svanir boss of that Ice Fractal using it.

emikochan.8504:

It sounds super overpowered. 3 nets or flames nobody will ever reach you and 4x napalm is pretty crazy.

Do it, Anet. Do it right now.

nakoda.4213:

1) All you have to do is press the keybind that equips or stows the kit you want to have the effect from.
ie: medkit = q; after 20 seconds, and you want magnetic aura, just hit q. EVEN IF YOU ARE ALREADY IN THAT KIT. “Stowing” the kit will also proc KR.

2)The idea that KR and Speedy Kits don’t synergize well, does not bother me. Technically, since they are both first tier traits, they are not necessarily meant to work in unison with each other, but presumably with higher tier traits in the same line.
-> (Yes, I am aware that there are many instances of T1 traits working together, such as pistol/rifle range and CD in the firearms tree (IV and VI), but I honestly do not think Speedy Kits and KR are supposed to be used together.)

3)There is no penalty for swapping kits during combat, there never has been. None of the kit swapping combos that we have used (except the 100nade barrage, double cleanse, and Super Elixir Double proc) have been broken. EVERYTHING else still works.

1) I’ve told you this before. This is false. The tooltip on KR says “Equipping a kit creates an attack or a spell” and is working as intended. I am in game testing it right now. Stowing a kit does not give you Kit Refinement. You would have to stow it and then equip it again, which is a second wasted.

2) That view could have been well accounted for by moving it up the tree. However, I do not think that’s a very good way to look at how traits work. Traits aren’t there to discourage use of others. They’re meant to synergize, both within the tree and without regardless of tiers. They were well synergistic before. Both traits gave users reasons to use multiple kits. So why not take both? When the GCD didn’t trigger on Bomb and Med Kits, I took them specifically to get around wasting KR. Now that it’s applicable on all of them, I don’t want to use either at all until I’m in combat. But if that really is what they meant to do, well, I guess that’s fine. I just won’t use it.

3) The Double/Triple Cleanses from FT and SE’s double proc was in no way “OP” or broken. ANet knows this. I have a feeling that the issue stems from their desire to buff Super Elixir’s healing. KR’s heal was balanced, but for anyone not using KR, the effectiveness of Super Elixir was half its max potential. If they wanted it to be effective, they’d want to double it. However, doubling it would give KR users 4x the original healing power. This is likely what they wanted to stay away from. So instead, Super Elixir’s healing effectiveness is buffed for users who don’t use KR. KR users still have the same amount of heal but lose 1 instant-speed Condition Remover in exchange for a immobilizer. I’m not as angry about that change since the immobilizer has both offensive and defensive uses. But that GCD makes me unable to use it the way I want.

As for Flamethrower… I guess they wanted to push their fiery juggernaut concept further so they went with the flame shield that gives might.

Also, I find that you’re saying that “swapping” kits has not been nerfed. No, it hasn’t. They have, however, given us a reason to not switch. It is a “ kitten Decision”, one that forces you to give up one of your tools for the use of another. That is a nerf to the way an Engineer can perform in combat.