Guild Wars 2

They just need to give to NPCs the same rules as they give to humans.
Movement while using skills, more use of punishing skills like confusion, retaliation, wall of reflection, etc.
Give creatures the ability to strafe, back-peddal, kite.
Make their defense be more than just a Health pool – give them defensive skills, heals and condition removal.

It goes on.
Full suggestion here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Balancing-PvP-vs-PvE-vs-Fun/first#post425932

Rafe Mathews.2308:

I’d say a split sounds like a great decision however pve side content feels utterly hollow.

This is exactly why I propose a different approach here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Balancing-PvP-vs-PvE-vs-Fun/first#post425932

Homogenize is the wrong word.

PvP and PvE will always feel different.
However, that’s not what creates problems in balance between skills.
The problem is in how the creatures you fight against in PvE are defeated in such a fundamentally different way.

As I described above, there are many things players do that NPCs don’t, and vice-versa.
If the NPCs are changed to obey the same rules and fight with the same tools, even if not as well as players, the skills will be automatically balanced between PvP and PvE.

Compare a boss to a player that is being healed by a bunch of enemies.
Compare the boss’ insta-down attacks to a group of players coordinating an attack against you.

You can create several parallels between PvP and PvE, as long as both game modes make use of the same kind of tools in combat.

If creatures don’t move while attacking, it’s already a huge impact.
If creatures don’t remove boons from you, it’s another huge impact.
If creatures don’t usually have boons worth removing, it’s another huge impact.

It’s alot of tiny things that accumulate into something that greatly impacts the balance of skills between PvP and PvE.

Most skills are already fairly balanced between the two game modes.
If some of what I suggested is done, not only does PvE become more dynamic as ANet promised it would be, but balancing skills will become insanely easier.

I think everyone agrees AoE is a little rampant in all aspects of the game.

The game might be improved as far as balance goes, if some AoE abilities were given multiple radius – working like Shockwave in Guild Wars 1.

The numbers below are just placeholders. Mind the concept.

Essentially, consider that a skill with 180 radius that deals 1800 damage at the moment, could instead deal:
- 2000 damage against targets within 120
- 1500 damage against targets within 150
- 1000 damage against targets within 180

So it deals more damage the closer to the center of the AoE you are.
Abilities that apply damaging AoE conditions could have a similar mechanic, so a skill that currently applies 18 seconds of poison to targets within 180 radius, could instead apply:
- 20 seconds of poison against targets within 120
- 15 seconds of poison against targets within 150
- 10 seconds of poison against targets within 180

Essentially, ANet can buff part of an AoE by nerfing another part of it, making AoE less overwhelming.

This is mostly approved by players who love PvP and don’t care about PvE, or vice-versa.
It forces everyone to play 2 different games in each character.

It works for its intended purpose – balance.
It doesn’t work for other reasons – coherence, immersion, unified gameplay.

If it was the only sollution, I’d be in favor.
Fortunately, there are much better options.

The only problem is that NPCs follow different rules from players.
They don’t have to behave like humans – they can’t.
All they need is to be given the same tools humans have:
- heals and condition removal
- defensive skills
- control skills, boon removal
- confusion, retaliation, reflection
- able to use skills while moving
- able to backpeddal and strafe
- kiting
- temporary immunity skills (stability, etc) instead of permanent immunities.

Do that, and the skills will be balanced for everyone.

I agree.
It’s much like the Evasion in World of Warcraft – and it’s buggy, annoying, and an overpunitive, unnecessary measure to fight some kind of exploiting, I suppose.

I wish GW2 was made a little more solid like GW1 in terms of combat “rules”. Allowing a player to gain field advantage by being in an elevated area, etc, should be an option.
Shooting an enemy from a safe spot, having the enemy try to reach you, taking health from him during that time, only to have him go invulnerable halfway and off he goes to his spawn spot, is a huge turnoff.

Make enemies attempt to run out of your range instead of run towards you, when you attack from a spot they “calculate” will take too long to reach.

arjeidi.2690:

Your proposal is to radically change the whole PvE design and force every other player of this game to make radical adjustments in how they play. Whether they want to or not. You propose this over the idea of simply splitting skills. If a player can’t remember “I’m in PvP, this is how Chaos Storm [random example] behaves”, I don’t think making PvE more like PvP is going to help them at all.

I find this particular part of your post interesting.

Players already know how skills work right now.
Players already know how PvP and PvE feels.

My suggestion is making PvE feel more like PvP – something they already know.
Your suggestion is making either PvP or PvE more distinct, and force them to learn 2 versions for every single skill.

I’ll use your own words:
Splitting skills will actually radically change either the whole PvE or PvP design and force every other player of this game to make radical adjustments in how they play. Whether they want to or not. You propose this over the idea of simply making PvE similar to PvP. If a player can’t adapt to playing PvE in the same fun, dynamic way they play PvP, I don’t think splitting skills for PvE and PvP is going to help them at all.

Yeah.
I kinda blurted out the ideas, but I like how the woodcutting idea came out.
The minesweeper idea for mining might be unintuitive in terms of the movement, but only because I wanted the gathering to use your weapon skill bar for simplicity.

Incredibly fun and intuitive fishing system can be found in Breath of Fire IV.
I recommend any MMO to learn from it.

I’m not complaining melee is hard in GW2. It’s not.
I’m not complaining about numbers either.

I’m saying there aren’t really meaningful situations where meleeing is considerably better.
But there are plenty of situations where attacking from range is much better.
In some cases, mandatory.

I listen to GW1

I think MF’ing should only be available in offensive gear.
That way, you’re more likely to die, but at least you contribute to an event.

I say this because by having MF you are hurting the team’s performance while actually getting better loot than the rest.
If you have MF + defensive stats, you’re hurting the group even more, by contributing even less.

With MF only available in offensive gear, at least you have the ability to contribute decently, and more responsibility to keep yourself alive, otherwise you will be hurting your profit by getting repair costs.

I think there should be 2 information types regarding this:
- Last Online
- Last Represented the Guild

Well, Boogie has a point.

I am against the “unremovable rank” suggestion.
However, Boogie, you can’t deny that an important decision such as passing Guild Leadership would benefit from a “insert new guild leader’s name to confirm” dialog similar to what you do to delete a character.

Did “happen” and “is” just get censored into hapkitten? xD

Look, I just provided a link to my thread as I will not invade yours with my ideas.
I am just saying that while splitting skills is a viable and working sollution, it is neither the easiest nor the best.

Mine isn’t necessarily the best, but brings less issues and also deals with another issue – the current state of PvE versus what ANet promised PvE would be.

This is actually a pretty good idea.
Unlike fast targetting, while holding down the key, you can glimpse where you’re hitting before releasing.

Short Bow on ranger may have decent consequences as a ranged weapon, as you are encouraged to go melee to maximize the effectiveness of #2. More ranged weapons should have that kind of functionality.

Among my suggestions is making gap closers hit harder the further you travel.
This makes going closer to melee range a good way to avoid some damage.
It doesn’t do anything to improve damage of melee that manage to stay on the target.

All this said, I love ranged, melee and mix.
All I want is, while there are plenty challenges in the game that make ranged a must, a few that do the same courtesy to melee.

Splitting of skills does its job fairly well, indeed.
However, it also ruins it for some players – myself included.
I like the game to feel like a whole, not two different games.
What’s the next step, Resilience and PvP Power?

I have provided a viable alternative to splitting skills in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Balancing-PvP-vs-PvE-vs-Fun/first#post418755

I’m fine manning up and dealing with the consequences of choosing two weapons with 130 Range, as long as those who choose weapons with 600-1200 range also have consquences to deal with.
Get it? Or still in denial?

Ugh… Jestunhi, I’m not saying ranged professions are OP…
All professions can use ranged indeed.

I’m saying that it’s unfair that there’s nothing wrong with using 2 ranged sets, but there’s something wrong with using 2 melee sets.
Do you understand this simple explanation? Because it can’t get any simpler.

It’s fine for me that it’s useful to have 2 ranged weapons.
It’s fine for me that it’s useful to have 1 ranged + 1 melee weapon.
It’s not fine for me that it’s not useful to have 2 melee weapons.

Play what you like. Remember?
I like ranged on some professions. I like melee on others. I like a mix on others.
Let me play what I like without feeling penalized.
Or, penalize everyone equally.

If there are reasons for a melee character to attack from range, make it so there are reasons for a ranged character to swap to a melee weapon and actually attack in melee.

mulch.2586:

there is a suggestions forum

why suggest something to take away player choice?

did you realize the engineer doesn’t exactly have a melee set?

Well you are focusing on a specific portion of my suggestion without looking at the overall point.

Ofcourse I prefer everyone to be able to use everything, successfully.
The problem is, while you can go into melee with ranged weapons and attack in melee, you cannot go into ranged with melee and attack from range.

While it is useful and practical to go into range and kite, it’s not really useful and practical to go into melee and… stay closer to danger.

So, while I’m not asking a buff to melee damage, I’m asking that melee is given more situational advantages such that it can actually occur to players that it’s worth going into melee, whatever weapon they have equipped.

My counter-suggestion of forcing players to use one melee set and one ranged set, is just an argument hook to make my point clear.
It’s not something I truly wish to be done.

Updated original post with a more concrete idea of how BLTP would display items with the increased number of properties.

Essentially, you’d see the name on the left, 5 collumns (in the case of 5 properties maximum) with the name of the properties, and then the price tab to the right as usual.

Please discuss.

Just give all your wealth and materials to your account’s owner, make your new character, and he gives the stuff back/helps you get to where you were.

Er, typing the player is what is being suggested… did you even read the OP?

You have no idea what you’re asking for…
It might be convenient if you hear the bip once in a while, but when you start kiting, charging, getting in and out of range of several enemies, skills coming off cooldown almost simultaneously, the storm of Bip would make you go crazy and wish you never suggested this.

I think the Whetstone is a great idea, but only under a few conditions.

1. Tools still have Durability
2. Whetstone is used to “repair” the tools on the fly
3. The durability lost by the Tool would be based on the difficulty of the Gathering Node, rather than a fixed amount.
   - If you’re using an Iron Tool on Copper Node, you would use up less Whetstone Durability than if you use it on an Iron Node.
   - Likewise, if you happen to try to gather a node 1 difficulty above your Tool (like gathering Platinum with an Iron Tool), you might be able to, but it’d use up twice as much Durability as it would if you used a Steel Tool.
   - Nodes 2 or more difficulties above your Tool would result in the usual ruined material.

As for challenging Gathering, I’m up for that.

• Your Weapon bar would change when you press “F” to Gather
  - Exiting the Gathering mode would be as simple as pressing “\” to swap weapon.
• Wood, you’d have Power and Accuracy
  - Skill #1 would be Gather Strength
  - Skill #2 would be Aim
  - The first Gauge would represent the Power with wich you hit the Tree/Sapling.
  - The second Gauge would be red in the center, and getting colder all the way to White on the sides. A small vertical bar would balance left and right, and the closer to the center, the more accurate your hacks will be.
  - You’d try to hit as high in power as possible, and then while the Power gauge starts to slowly deplete, you try to hit as close to the center of the second Gauge as possible to determine accuracy. Your power + accuracy will affect your chances for extra stuff.
• Vegetables, it could be a sequencial skill input
  - Skill #1 might be Pull, Skill #2 might be Cut, Skill #3 might be Bend, Skill #4 might be Stretch, etc.
  - The time in wich you successfully enter them helps determine the chances of getting extra stuff.
• Metal, it could be a 5×5 minesweeper.
  - Skill #1-4 would be up, down, left right, skill #5 would be “reveal”
  - You start with a freebie reveal (revealed spots represent simple rock)
  - You attempt to clear as much rock as possible without hitting the metal, as fast as possible
  - The more you reveal and the faster you do it, the better your chances of getting extra stuff.

You can pay less than 60$ for Fishing – Breath of Fire IV.

They should add a fee to traveling to the Mists.

Lethalvriend.1723:

I think the best fix for an issue like this is to use the same system used for deleting characters. You would be required to type in the full character name and confirming that before leadership passes on to the next member.

Perfect idea, imo.

You might also be required to confirm that you’re promoting said player to Guild Leader by typing Guild Leader.

They aren’t likely to use the search, but if the Sticky has a proper name like:
Suggestions Already Answered, it’s likely to be read by alot of them, even if not all.
It will help not only calm down some players, as well as prevent some of the useless flood of posts.

Topics are constantly being made, often regarding something that ANet has given a clear answer of Yes or No.
Stickying each of the topics with an Official Reply is impractical, and I know there’s a Dev Tracker, but the most practical sollution is to make a single Sticky in the Suggestion forum section where every single suggestion that was given an official response is indicated there.
The Sticky name and its text would be something like this:
Suggestions Already Answered

1. Previewing Items (Equipment and Dyes) on Black Lion Trading Post
   Accepted/Team intends to implement. Mid priority.
2. Looting items from other players’ inventory in PvP
   Denied/Team does not intend to implement.
3. Lipstick customization
   Pending/Team is discussing the possibility. Low priority.

I like the concept behind this idea.
However, letting Weapon Swap not put Attunements on cooldown is unbalanced.
Each of the 2 actions must place the other type of action on a longer-than-usual cooldown for it to be fair, otherwise you are giving the profession a significative, unwarranted buff:

1. When you change Attunement, the Attunements go into the usual 15 second cooldown, and the Weapon Swap must go into a 30~60 second cooldown.
   Yes, 2, 3 or even 4 times as long as the usual Attunement cooldown.
   You play the Elementalist, having access to multiple elements by being locked to 1 weapon.
2. When you swap Weapon, the Weapon Swap goes into the 10 second cooldown, but the Attunements must go into a 20~40 second cooldown.
   Yes, 2, 3 or even 4 times as long as the normal Weapon Swap cooldown.
   You play the Geo/Aero/Pyro/Hydromancer, able to swap weapons by being locked to 1 element.

@Jazhara Knightmage
It’s perfectly okay if they make things like letting YOU access YOUR account from a cellphone, etc.
It’s perfectly okay for ANet to implement a way to chat in MSN, etc, without alt-tab.

It’s not okay to access other player characters’ information Armory style.
Anything that extracts information from characters not your own, however, is a bad idea.

Essentially, anything players can use to obtain information from your characters prior to joining a group/guild is bad.

@SwordOfValor
Might be interesting, but doesn’t solve the issue and may create problems in itself.

@phooka
That’s exactly my point.
Those defending 25 stacks of bleed kill you in seconds don’t stop to think how fast those stacks took to be applied in a proper pvp situation, and how much mayhem normal damage dealers can deal in that same amount of time.

I’m fine with developers intending you to swap from melee to ranged if needed, as long as they give you enough need to swap from ranged to melee as well.

I know some melee weapons can be better than some ranged weapons, both in PvP and PvE, but not in a way that makes it relevant to this discussion.

I’m talking of wanting to get close and actually melee the enemy, rather than kiting and keeping your range.
Many melee weapons have ranged skills, and I’m not talking about those skills.

Healing simply requires an investment no other defensive maneuver does.
If I can ignore healing and instead focus on negating incoming damage, without sacrificing stats, why must I sacrifice stats to heal?

Kanuvani, if it’s an option, you’d still feel guilty.
If it’s mandatory, I am against.

Ofcourse it’s what I think should be done to the game. It’s my opinion.
I don’t pretend my opinion is everybody’s opinion.

You think splitting PvE and PvP skills is is the smartest way.
You don’t mind the gameplay issues it brings.
See what I did there?

I don’t want to turn PvE into a PvP simulation. But I don’t want PvP and PvE to feel like two different games either – I want my character to be one, not two in one.

I want PvE to be what ANet said it would be: Dynamic, alive, nothing like the conventional tank & spank MMOs.

Is any of my suggested Sollutions a bad thing for this game? If so, why?
I don’t suggest things that don’t exist in the game, so it’s nothing radical.

• Why don’t you remove boons from NPCs? Or rarely.
• Why don’t they heal or remove their conditions? Or rarely.
• Why don’t they move while attacking?
• Why don’t they kite you? Why don’t they backpeddal or strafe?
• Why do creatures barely use defensive skills, and when they do it’s usually damaging at the same time and/or very obvious?

The way you dismiss any validity to my suggestion without an explanation and focus on a subject I stated this thread was not meant to discuss makes it feel like you are arguing against my thread just for the sake of defending the splitting of skills.

My suggestion fixes 3 problems in 1 go.

1. It makes PvE more interesting by making it less about nuking huge health pools and more about making use of all the skills in the game at the right time.
2. It makes skills easier to balance, since they will be as attractive in PvP as in PvE.
3. It makes it unnecessary to split skills into PvE and PvP versions.

Yes, I identify splitting of skills as a problem.

And don’t be sorry for something you believe in.

You can get characters to max level in WoW in days instead of weeks, and they sell pretty well.

If it’s easy getting a character to max level, just make a new one.
It’s not worth implementing an incredibly exploitable feature to solve something as “easy” as leveling a new character.

As I said before you deleted your post/reposted:
I wasn’t criticizing you, was just answering to the points made in your post, whether they were your points or not.

Regarding challenge and fun, they are subjective indeed, but I like to think the fun you get from a challenge, have to do with what is required of you, and what you get as a reward.
When tank & spank is more fun than dynamic combat, it usually has something to do with how good or bad the reward is comparing to the “extra” effort being required of you.

As an example, simply increasing the health of an enemy is NEVER more fun.

Instead, adding a defensive skill may or not be more fun, depending on how it changes the way you feel about the effort and the reward.

Adding a defensive skill but lowering health, is – in my opinion – only less fun, if it makes the fight not worth the effort.

@lolnotacat
I wasn’t criticizing you, was just answering to the points made in your post, whether they were your points or not.

@tom

Then that means you agree with my suggestions.

Currently, changing a skill due to PvP causes problems in PvE and vice-versa.
I’m suggesting that PvE creatures/bosses gain enough skills and features so that fighting them is closer to PvP, and thus removing the need to constantly rebalance player skills.

I care too much about my level? You didn’t read my post then.
Try again, you don’t have to insert coin.

Identify a player’s strength/achievements/gear is precicely what I’m against.
Go check Diablo 3 and WoW forums, and you’ll get an idea why.

@TheDaiBish

I’m not sure weaknesses is a good idea because it is contrary to the purpose of this suggestion – wich is not only to make PvE more interesting, wich weaknesses would not interfere with, but also to make PvP and PvE obey the same rules in a balanced manner.
Unless resistances are added to players, wich would create more issues balancing skills and professions, it’s not practical.

@lolnotacat
Lowering health is just a compensation for giving enemies defensive skills and healing.
The “effective health” should remain similar – I’m not suggesting the fights should be quicker. I’m only suggesting the nature of the fight itself to be more similar to PvP, where health doesn’t simply get grinded down, it goes up and down.

It is arguable whether players that are said to enjoy tank and spank / don’t stand in fire battles aren’t simply just used to it.
Because more challenge is only not more fun when there’s some problem in the middle.

Group synergy isn’t something I suggest breaking – on the contrary, the mentality of group synergy you get in PvP would cross over to PvE by making PvE fights more similar to PvP.

Trust me, these processes can have all the safeguards they want.
I can even tell you that in WoW, to transfer a character you must prove you’re a familiar.
To do that, you need to have the same last name and stuff like that.
In the end, people can get around this by changing names, etc, and eventually making themselves “ellegible”.

It’s just not viable without intrusive procedure (asking for ID, etc).

I’ve seen multiple bots playing as a unit in various areas. They follow each other almost in a line, and truly destroy everything.
They often have relatively large “path” cycles that may make it easier for you to miss them or mistake them for players. Some of their names are even quite acceptable, but their behavior quickly becomes apparent.

Abolishing the concept of level is doable – think Final Fantasy X – but it requires a whole system that gives you a similar feeling of evolution.

I personally don’t care about level itself, but I care about progression – becoming stronger.
I wouldn’t mind at all – it’d be more balanced – if you always had the same base stats, and just grew in skill and whatnot. But alas.

However, the way GW2 is designed, it needs a level system.
And it’s fine to see your level and other players’ level.

I’m okay with hiding creature level and just using a colored system.

You should, however, always see other player level as if it is his real level.
Essentially, you should not be able to tell whether another player’s level is adjusted (up or down) or not.

As many other ideas that may come from good intentions, far greater problems arise.

You know in WoW you can sell characters, right?
The same would happen in GW2 if this is ever allowed.

No thoughts on this?
Do you really think PvE is fine and just needs to have bigger numbers to be challenging?

In my opinion, one of the game with the most interesting “information” books, is Star Ocean – Till the End of Time.

Any terms, story, creatures, items you interact with are unlocked so you can later go check them out at your leisure.

Exactly. It’s a plague in any community, and any benefits on those “features” are vastly outweighted by the problems they cause.