Guild Wars 2

Heh, what Apophis said.

Those patch notes above should be called a Pet Update and not a Ranger Update. :P

@Loki

Well it was both the Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert. And the refugee camp in North Kryta Province was not that large. At any rate, I’ve already conceded on not having the popular opinion on this gray area, but I’m certainly not alone in my view either. For me it was “when” not “if” the Ascalons would recover. That was the “vibe” I got from finishing the game.

@PopeUrban *hits “like” button

:)

@Loki

Hmm, I see what your saying, I guess I saw it differently. Personal opinions maybe? For me, It never seemed to me Rurik left with a large chunk but rather a small minority. It also seemed to me the Charr attacks were slacking. At the end of the Rin mission, Rurik certainly didn’t think it Ascalon was salvageable, although Adelbern did. Rurik’s story to me was always tragic on multiple levels(Althea’s death, estrangement with his father, death in a lonely mountain pass, and forced to fight us as undead), but Adelbern’s defiance I always admired.

Taking into account the Charr trek accross the Crystal Desert and annihilation at Orr as well as their defeat in Kryta, it makes one wonder how many Charr that are actually left out there. No way to know that really, population numbers are speculation. But it certainly wouldn’t be a stretch to think they lost a rather large portion of their army like Ascalon did.

Yeah, Adelbern’s line would have died off with him but that’s not to say there wasn’t anyone around to take the throne. Duke Barradin, the rightful heir, was still alive at the end of Prophesies. In fact, Adelbern’s presence on the throne was cause for some potential civil war from Royalists. Without any mention of Adelbern having other relatives, his death would only seem to ease tensions.

Judging from yours and other’s posts, my initial reaction to the end of Prophesies is by no means universal. Personally, before I knew how GW2 was nominally going to play out in terms of story, I assumed Ascalon was going to be fine in the long run after the Titan defeat. For some reason that seemed like closure on the Charr story for me. I actually found myself wondering who would be king and how the rebuilt kingdom would look in the future.

It wasn’t until I played EotN that it dawned on me the Charr were going to be very much a part of the GW2 story. Again, if what I read from you guys is any indication of popular opinion, my view was not nearly as close to the mark as I thought. Thanks for your opinion though, I will try to refrain from dragging this out too much more.

Obsi

@Dustfinger

Yeah I’m guilty of trying to “steer” the post a direction I wanted to see it expounded on for sure. I think most people just see something interesting in the post title, read it, and contribute whatever points they feel they have on it whether or not it stays true to the intended topic area. Doesn’t that pretty much happen with every forum though?

@Khyron

Hilarious :P

I agree with Narcemus about the point of the Bloodstones. Perhaps the backstory of them was just the way the writers chose to describe the limits of magic in relation to the separation of the professions. It’s nice they considered this in the lore and didn’t just say something like “because that’s the way it is” or something similar. The elimination of the monk class for the new “anti-trinity” style of gameplay must have been a challenge for them considering the lore. I haven’t seen much in-depth explanations for this besides a few lines of text, has anyone else?

@draxynnic

Nice post, I’m glad you pointed out the inherent flaws in wiki, and all wiki’s for that matter. And I appreciate your scholarly take on lore gathering. My question is, since we know the wiki to be unreliable, what sources, other than playing the actual game, can we look to for legitimate source material?

@Loki

I’m talking about how the whole thing was portrayed before EotN came out. I keep trying to drive home the whole “it was a different writer” thing but methinks it’s becoming a broken record. /sigh

As for your last point I would begrudgingly agree. The ambiguity of it all lends itself to a very nice grey area that is hard to find anywhere else. That is a rather refreshing take on an otherwise absolutist story.

I didn’t mean to imply they were innocent. Almost all of the strife in Tyria is at least indirectly related to humans. There isn’t any species that I would call innocent really(except maybe those lil Quaggans :P). To be fair, the humans didn’t have a choice on settling in the lands held by the Charr that came to be know as Ascalon. The gods put them there on purpose to settle and helped the humans push the Charr out. I suppose you could blame the gods for setting the wheels in motion on this.

@xev

Ah yeah you’re right, my mistake. And I didn’t know you were being specific on assuming the dragons power. I don’t remember it being Zhaitan who corrupted the Vizier, is that right?

@Dustfinger

1) The Charr attacked Ascalon after many years of Guild Wars. It is referenced to several times that all 3 human nations were war-weary and weak at that time.

2) See above post

3) I don’t think you know what magnanimous means. Having Stormcaller on display in the capital is not noble or dignified, it’s spiteful. And no Ascalonian would be caught dead living in the Citadel with that on display, regardless of the fact that there are some in the game now that do so.

4) Limiting lore to pre-Eye is done only for the purposes of this topic, and for good reason. There are different writers at work here which I’m sure you’ve seen me post earlier. Any researcher worth his weight in library fees knows that a primary source is better than a secondary. If you want to know something, do you ask the guy who wrote it, or do you ask the guy who read the book the first guy wrote? You can quote GW2 authors all day long but it’s a little irrelevant if they are just filtering someone else’s knowledge through their own lens. And that’s not to say GW1 lore is unassailable by any means, but it’s certainly a better source for GW1 history than GW2 is. I’m not sure why you don’t see that.

5) See above post again, and: First of all history doesn’t look at history. People look at history. And trying to judge something in the past based solely on actions is terrible research. You look at everything. Everything. Yeah on the surface Adelbern seems like a supreme a@@hole. But given his options, he did what he thought was best for his people. And it turned out he made the right choice after all that. Just because a game sequel comes around and decides to bend the history to suit their purposes, doesn’t invalidate that. Also, whether or not his loved-ones are still around is irrelevant.

6) This doesn’t make sense. The whole point of the post is about Ascalon’s and the Charr’s past in relation to the present and you want to cut the past out of the argument? I just assumed you were being immature at this point.

Loki.4871:

Obsidian.1328:

it was assumed by many Ascalon would eventually recover from the Searing, if somewhat weakened by it. There was no indication pre-EotN(or pre-novels) that the nails were in the coffin. In fact, the signs all pointed toward a recovery after the defeat of the Titans…the source of power for the Charr.

Speak for yourself; there was no indication that there was any improvement at any point, beyond the victory of killing the Titans, the demons charr worshipped as gods. All that remained was a land on scorched earth instead of fields and woods and tar instead of water without a single hint it would get better, the remnants of Ascalon lead some miserable old man that flew off the handle when his son said words to the effect of “We should just cut our losses, even if it’s just to regroup.” Adlebern hated Kryta for what happened in the Guildwars, and utterly refused to trust their ambassador, much less flee there. What he did (which iirc was actually two years before the Krytan civil war) with the Foefire is something I’d honestly expect from the spiteful old git.

Well, after the Titan defeat, they had no more enemies. The Charr were broken as a powerhouse. Orr was gone. Kryta had its own problems with the Mantle. The Guild Wars were over. I guess it just boils down to opinion but by my eyes Adelbern was vindicated by his insistence on staying. He won, albeit with help from the Chosen Ones(you). Rurik’s decision to leave cost him his life. And Adelbern’s distrust of Kryta was a two-way road. Keep in mind the the ambassador to which you are referring to was wearing Mantle clothes. It wouldn’t be a stretch at all to think the Mantle and Mursaat offered help only to eventually subjugate Ascalon. He was stubborn and what he did to Rurik was wrong, but he wasn’t mad.

And btw, the Krytan civil war was well before the Foefire took place.

Dustfinger.9510:

The gods themselves only predate humans by a short period of time.http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Human#History

If they were the same gods, they’d have to predate them by multiple thousand years.

See other thread. :/

Dustfinger.9510:

Posted in the other thread but for those only following this one i’ll repost.:

The gods themselves only predate humans by a short period of time.http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Human#History

So, in order for them to be the same gods they would have to predate the humans by multiple thousands of years in order to have brought the forgottten to Tyria.

True, and what is a “short period of time” anyway. There are inconsistencies in a lot of it, like here:

“They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians. Their task: shepherd the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create the world around them.”

And then a brief description of where the Forgotten hung out, and then bam:

“But then a new race of creatures was birthed upon the world." (humans)

The same beings are referenced as both “the old gods” and just “the gods.” And there is no indication here, as there are in other accounts, of how much time passed. And then this:

“The Gods of Tyria are the most commonly worshiped gods in Tyria. They are the beings who, in the religion of humans and other advanced races, are credited with the creation of the world of Tyria, giving magic to the races, and bestowing the Favor of the Gods. One of their titles, the Old Gods, is given because they have left the world of Tyria during the Exodus of the Gods at year 0."

So they are merely the most common gods now I guess. . Then followed shortly by:

“According to legend, the gods used to live on Tyria while they were creating it – however it is now known that while the gods used to live on Tyria, they did not create the world but simply brought humanity to Tyria at an unknown time in the past."

The lore is all over the place!! Somewhere along the line the writer’s didn’t feel the need to make everything add up perfectly and just left it.

Kuldebar.1897:

Dustfinger.9510:

Kuldebar.1897:

ANet clearly states that the Human Gods only slightly predate humanity, so I offer that the Six Aspects of Power existed on Tyria before the Six Human Gods took up the mantles of those Aspects.

Upon further exploration, A-Net seems to support this.

It was almost three thousand years ago that a race of serpents stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria. Unlike ordinary serpents, these moved upright, used language, and adhered to an elaborate culture. They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria

I think this helps nail it down:

it is known that the current pantheon is not the first

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Human_Gods

I don’t mean to pry, but why do you keep assuming that since there have been different pantheons of gods, that the ones at the Forgotten’s time have to be of a different pantheon. We don’t even know what a pantheon here is, outside of a real life definition. Does having one god change identities, like Grenth and Dhuum, constitute a different pantheon? Or do they all have to change to be so? Do they have to be in human form? Were they in human-forms just for humans, or did they assume other forms for other races? There’s too many variables out there still to concretely say… they were not the same ones.

xev.9476:

Is there a single instance of any being using the dragon’s power that hasn’t been wholly corrupted? Vizier Khilbron, for instance, was tainted by Zhaitan’s power. Further, didn’t Zhaitan have to GRANT Khilbron that power? To claim that the gods somehow tapped the dragons power without consequence – corruption, etc. – and against the dragon’s will seems without precedent or foundation.

Erm…didn’t Zojja’s mentor(the name eludes me at the moment) tap into Zhaitan’s mind and temporarily shut him down when Destiny’s Edge confronted him? There’s nothing that said he got corrupted from it, only that he was slain by Z’s minions because Thackeray had to leave to save his gf.

I take GW2 wiki lore with a grain of salt when talking about GW1 lore. There is some shuffling of histories going on there.

We don’t know for sure that the current pantheon was not the same as the one that created the Forgotten, only that there have been multiple pantheons. You’re making a leap of faith assuming it’s a different pantheon. Grubbs quote notwithstanding, he didn’t write the original lore.

Kuldebar.1897:

Narcemus.1348:

It’s obvious that Balthazar is a charr, dwayna is a harpy, melandru is a version of a oakenheart, Abaddon is a creepy conglomeration of spiders/insects/human, and Dhuum, and Lyssa are decidedly human.

Now there is no evidence to prove this, but Balthazar has horns like a charr, and Dwayna has wings like a harpy :P

Cute, but no cigar for being off topic.

Just so you know, if Harpies, Oakenhearts, Spiders, charr, etc. all had histories and lore tied to specific Gods; you might have the beginning of a theory. But they don’t, cutesie and not helpful.

The Six Gods, often called the Human Gods, correlate with humans chronologically in events and actions. There is no ambiguity in this statement concerning the Human Gods:

They arrived on Tyria and brought the humans with them… it is known that the current pantheon is not the first, and that it is not as old as the Elder Dragons.

Well…it also states that the gods created the Forgotten, which were in Tyria waaaaay before the humans were. That’s a little ambiguous.

Narcemus.1348:

I have a feeling that the lore changing has nothing to do with new writers, since Ree and especially Jeff Grubb have been around for a while. No the differentiation in lore is to show that much of what we knew in GW1 was entirely from the human perspective. We are learning new things in the game because we have new viewpoints, both from the new races, and the ancient races.

It’s unclear when Ree was brought onboard ANet, the only info I can find about her concerning writing is that she is "credited as the author of the GW backstory for GW2. Whatever that means.

And Jeff was hired on to write story for Nightfall, and later EotN. But not before that.

So I dunno. :/

@Kuldebar

I agree with that, it is more of a storied account of history.

I was merely wondering if the writers of both are really the same writers. And if not, how many liberties were they given with the lore? I mean, having some GW1 lore be vague and inconclusive would certainly allow for a writer to steer the history this way or that…even if that writing is filling in blanks from GW1 lore and not strictly GW2 material.

As a history major I can tell that trying to sort out GW1 lore is a nightmare. =D

I only have 2 things to offer:

1) There seems to be conflicting lore between GW1 and GW2. Perhaps it’s just a simple matter of having different writers on staff. :P

2) The cyclical nature of the dragons, as well as their environment altering powers, overwhelmingly points towards them being responsible for the ice ages, and therefore global warming. We should all be on the lookout for any leafy looking dude who’s name starts with a “T” and ends with “rahearne.” 20 bucks says he’s in Oregon with all dem tree-huggers!

Hmmm, I’m not convinced they are essentially “greater” humans, or however you want to define them. They are uniquely tied to humans I will give you that. Let’s not forget Abaddon and Dhuum were gods too, I’m not sure anyone would consider them original humans but I don’t know. So there is really 8 to consider.

Also, the gods are tied to magic; being both the ones who granted it to Tyria in the first place, and the ones who reigned it in with the Bloodstones(which is when Abaddon gets angry). It’s interesting to note the “blood” of the stones was human blood, King Doric’s blood was used in the process of sealing the stones’ power before they were flung across the continent.

Near simultaneous arrival doesn’t exactly cut it for good evidence. There could be many reasons we don’t hear about them before, not the least of which is the fact that the Tyrian language is almost the only language in which all the histories are kept.

Your last point is interesting. If it was the aspects and not the gods themselves that is the real divine power, then it could be said that the six gods may be just supreme human “channellers” of an existing magic, and not the magic themselves. That would lend credence to them starting out as anything other than divine methinks.

One thing I found odd, I used the trait buff that increases range and decreases recharge time of offhand weaps by 20%. For my dagger, it did decrease both skills recharges, but it only increased the range on the #5, the ranged cripple. The “gap-closing” #4 evade/poison skill stayed at a range of 250. I would think it would fall slightly outside the parameters of a close-quarters skill, especially if it gap-closes…albeit a small distance. Is this normal?

Dustfinger.9510:

No assumption. It’s been confirmed in the last 250 game years ;P So anyone who only ever got a chance to see that ’animal side" is probably long dead.

On Churchill: Not sure how that applies. the Charr were the winners and showed a degree of magnanimity. Which further demonstrates their intelligence.

Well yeah…since the new writers took over they did. If GW2 never came out there would be no reason to think the Charr were any different from other “mobs” out there you have to kill. And not because it was because you never heard their side of the story or anything, it’s because there was never any inkling of history or in-game cues that would lean that direction. Again, I’m talking pre-EotN.

My point is that they were artifically augmented, both culturally and cognitively, for the purposes of this game…and not because that’s where they were headed anyway. They might as well have randomly picked any of the creatures that walked or crawled around Tryia at that time. It’s arbitrary really.

The reason you find so many upset about them in particular is because of how they are presently portrayed in relation to anything Ascalon. ANet could have written the story to better reflect the past. But instead they chose to demonize a king(Adelbern), marginalize(to the point of eradicate) the GW1 Tyrian player’s primary heritage(Ascalon); and at the same time unrealistically promote that which became the reason for their demise(modern Charr).

The modern Charr hardly show any magnanimity towards Ascalon or its people, as Anakita already pointed out. Their attitude is condescending at the least, and reviling at the most. Why ANet chose to use them as a major player in GW2 I’ll never know, but transforming them into virtual engineers was way off the mark.

Before the modern lore came out it was assumed by many Ascalon would eventually recover from the Searing, if somewhat weakened by it. There was no indication pre-EotN(or pre-novels) that the nails were in the coffin. In fact, the signs all pointed toward a recovery after the defeat of the Titans…the source of power for the Charr. But the writer’s couldn’t reconcile that with having the Charr be a playable race in this game. So they quietly wrote Ascalon out of any future.

Finally, there’s no reason to paint Adelbern as a mad king. He was proud yes, but human nonetheless, and felt real regret with his relations with his son. These were his last words in the game after the he defeats the Titans:

“A long time have I fought for Ascalon. First as a soldier blessed by Balthazar, now as its king. Though I have survived one more battle, and I will see another day, it will not make me any more wise… only one day older. I have lost all that a man can lose. All that I have left is this antiquated set of armor and the remains of this tattered kingdom. I thank you for your help today. Rurik would have been very proud of all you have accomplished.”

Hardly the words of vengeful madman.

So do I feel sorry for Ascalon’s ghosts? Yes, as much as I feel sorry every Ascalonian. Or any player that identified with them in the first game as well. ANet writers did themselves a disservice by this.

That’s making the assumption the Charr are an intelligent species, you can’t dehumanize a beast.

And Winston was a smart man, but his generosity was certainly not universal. He treated the Irish like animals.

It is an opposing point of view for sure. But why stop there? Will we be playing as Krait, or Ogres, or Grawl in later expansions? It’s a little disconcerting killing a species you have no reason to think is capable of civility, much less goodness, in droves…and then turning around and calling them allies later. :/

Oh…I thought you meant that “might makes right” was the standard you were referring to. I see you mean it as a response to being invaded. Looking at Charr and Humans on the same level yeah I can see your point of course.

Interesting link by Anakita. I think it’s very Charr-biased though. And upstart humans?? It strikes me as odd that it states they would kill the gods if they had the opportunity, yet the other races still revere and worship them. How or why would a Charr use any god-based skills in the game if they despise them? There’s just so many glaring inconsistencies with the lore to match up with gw1 history.

@Dustfinger

“In the days before the Gods of Tyria brought the humans to Tyria, the Charr battled with the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains. Long after the Forgotten stopped threatening the Charr, the humans appeared and, with the help of their Gods, pushed the Charr from their southern borders, conquering the land that became known as Ascalon in 100 BE.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr

True, it’s unclear who was in Ascalon first, but it seems to not point to the Charr as their very first reference points to the Blazeridge Mountains. At any rate, the game of “Who was first?” is a self-perpetuating cycle with no end. Additionally, you would be groundless to say the humans invented the “might makes right” idea….the Charr basically live by that rule. And everything about them suggests they always have.

The humans hardly set that standard. They weren’t in the business of conquest, they merely wanted to keep their lands. I mean, the gods themselves specifically brought the humans to Ascalon to settle. The humans were just defending territory they thought was rightly bestowed upon them by Dwayna and the others. The Charr on the other hand, were in Ascalon because that’s where their warmongering had carried them. After the Forgotten had been driven off, the Charr were still around the area…probably itching for someone else to beat on.

The real culprit in all this mess is the gods themselves. They wedged the humans into a volatile area, then left them to figure it out on their own. Tyrian gods, like Greek gods, are not perfect. They make mistakes(see Abbadon). Unfortunately, this mistake has to be paid for eternity by the Ghosts of Ascalon.

Yeah, the cooking components of components (.) don’t have a slot. Niether do rare high-end mats like ecto’s. Kinda odd they didn’t include those.

I use it all the time for jumping puzzles, vista’s, and running over rough terrain if I need to get somewhere fast. It’s not because of durability that peeps are using it, it’s the time it takes to get back there from a waypoint. We all know Orr has a lot of contested waypoints.

Swoop isn’t all that great a gap-enlarger. You tend to get caught up on uneven terrain and even flat inclines. Also, a lot of times if you’re still clicked on the target, you won’t Swoop the direction you want, but either towards the targeted player, or some wierd nonsensical in-between area.

All they have to do is add immobilize removal to LR and nerf the vigor duration(or even remove it entirely…I’m sure ranger’s will take what they can get). It’s still a 36 second recharge with the fast recharge trait.

Oh jeez, I was thinking of Avatar of Melandru…

Sorry about that, I’m an idiot. :|

SoN has some very impressive abilities, just keep in mind it doesn’t last very long, maybe 10 seconds??

@Devata

I was not a mistake, it was intentional. It’s currently impossible or extrememly difficult to both have a single instanced world and have the level of detail that GW2 has at the same time…unless everyone owns high-end comps. The hardware requirement for this would be pricy, and ANet specifically wanted this game to not require high-end machines to play it. Additionally, the programming nightmare on ANet’s end for this is no easy fix, but rather an overhaul of the game engine. Imagine a DE that cascades out over the entire world…you think that would be easy for the server to handle? How is this not understood? Other games can get away with it because of inferior graphics and therefore a lower taxing of the system. I’m not sure how a 10-second load destroys people’s gaming experience, but not only has it been a pretty standard mechanic of MMO’s for years, it’s a rediculously tiny price to pay for good visuals.

@Harlequin

Wow, nice argument Harlequin. You make good points. I see what you mean by the seeming Asuran double-standard. Personally when I was introduced to them in EotN through Vekk, I simply assumed they were already a highly advanced race because the crazy toys…err…tools they employed(golems, gates, etc.) as well as the uniqueness of Rata Sum. I imagined their old capital underground was 10 times as grandiose, before the Destroyers pushed them above-ground. Rata Sum, as cool as it was in GW1, was a refugee city. The Charr were already firmly set in my mind through Prophecies. Given that perspective, the Asura haven’t really advanced much in 250 years.

I suppose at the heart of my argument is a much more sinister culprit: sentimentality. I played Eye of the North straight after Prophecies, only buying Factions and Nightfall within the last year(and it was for the skills, not the HoM points, I already had 30). So my view is much more skewed away from Cantha and Elona to focus on Tyria mostly. And Eye was more an expansion than a stand-alone campaign. As well it was an introductory lore-patch for GW2, as opposed to having solid historical ground of its own to stand on.

Consequently, I just really liked Ascalon, I don’t know what it is about it. The history, the culture, the people, they all seem(ed) dear to me in a wierd way. And I continue to look at GW2 through Ascalonian eyes, I don’t think that will change. Bias plays a part I’m sure in other players who feel the same. And still others really identify with Cantha or Elona as well. Perhaps I wouldn’t feel so rotten on the whole Charr thing if Ascalon had survived and hung on in semblance of their former selves. Ebonhawke in the game is a sad town, all ashen and grey; a far cry from the sunny green hills and clear streams of old.

Its people have begun to think of themselves as Tyrians first now, and Ascalonians a far second. But then again, that’s the whole point of Guild Wars 2 isn’t it?

@I See No Tomorrow

Yeah, the rejection of the false gods certainly gives some credence to their role as the “technocrats” for lack of a better word. I just don’t think it is nearly enough, which brings me, too, back to our long-winded posts. They went from obviously inferior biengs in terms of intellectual advancement to the top dogs of science in this game. That wouldn’t really matter at all had the other races been on par with this, but they weren’t. The other’s retained their “fantasy roles” quite thoroughly, even the quirky Asura.

The Asura are probably the most aptly portrayed: They built a modern, magical capital completely in line with how they were seen in Eye. They focus on magic in a scientific sense, but it’s still essentially magical. And their society seems to have progressed the way you would think it would in 250 years. Now, had they been portrayed in, say, Prophecies as something akin to the Skritt I would have issue with it.

The Norn have slower progression, they can build more grandiose cities(or Lodges). And the humans have seemed to almost devolved of a sorts, nothing really new about Divinity’s Reach aside from scale. It just seems really strange to me to see a Charr behind the wheel of a tank when most everyone else is still smelting swords and scribing scrolls. Does rejecting the gods really give you that much of an edge? And if so, why doesn’t everyone else do it?

I will say I enjoy this discussion, none of it is personal(mostly) on my part. I enjoy good banter and the nerd in me appreciates yours and others knowledge on the subject.

@I See No Tomorrow

Yeah, Garfaz had a turn of heart for sure. Seeing your warband’s souls devoured by demons has a tendancy to do that. I’m not saying the more current lore should be disregarded, I’m saying it doesn’t fall in line with pre EotN lore. That part I whole-heartedly disagree with you, I’m not sure how you come up with that. Finding one helpfull Charr in the Realm of Torment doesn’t exactly grant the whole race reprieve from how it’s commonly understood at the time. It was a colorful side-story. The Charr of Prophecies have little to do with the Charr of EotN or GW2 in terms of social and political constructs. They were like the Ogres you see around Ebonhawke in GW2: fierce and strong but hardly a race that knew how to build anything bigger than a warcamp, much less read a book.

I remember being surprised in EotN when we first meet Pyre and he starts talking to the group. Beyond some simple grunts and gestures, I didn’t even know Charr could talk.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So many greedy people here. Is 2 silver really that big of a deal to you?

No, 2 silver is not a lot. Why does it matter to you anyway though? Does that “exploit” affect any other player at all in a negative way?

It’s obvious that a) ANet is aware of it, and, b) they aren’t doing anything about it. My guess is because of the general grumblings against waypoint fees they probably left it as is, as a show of support for the community.

This is a legitimate concern, and I empathize with you. The only answer right now would be a week long server transfer unfortunately, and future guesting will be specifically off-limits to W3. Maybe when server tiers balance out more you will have a better chance at it. /shrugs.

Aside from actually getting an opposing server to basically let you take Stonemist for awhile to finish this, it seems like something ANet needs to address. I’d invite you to my server so I could help, but we got Sea of Sorrows this week and we might not see the inside of Stonemist for a bit. :P

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

I think people are forgetting the charr civil war. When that occurred, the charr were freed from the oppression of the Shaman Caste. What does that mean? Well, as one person said, they can’t wait for humans to cast off gods and become a technologically advanced race that uses science and reasoning to go forth. Is that not the story of the charr?
They were oppressed by the Shaman Caste which controlled everything in charr society. The shaman caste enjoyed war, oppressed females, and generally anything that did not need their magic. So once the Shaman Caste was overthrown, the charr could portray themselves as they truly are. Don’t hold all germans responsible for the holocaust. Sure, they have a responsibility to accept what happened and make reparations even if they don’t want to (same with modern Americans with respect to Native Americans and the genocide that occurred there). In a similar vein, the charr are coming into being as a race that has thrown off oppression and grown stronger because of it.

I honestly don’t understand all of the charr hate in the game. I played GW1 when it first came out and didn’t like the charr much at all either. Yet learning that what we fought in GW1 was the same thing that charr revolutionaries fought decades after the Great Destroyer’s defeat changed my opinion of them. Heck, even the names of the flame legion NPCs match the names of charr enemies in GW1. Charr are not inherently bad. It’s only been 250 years, which is enough time for technological advancement but as a culture they are similar (not the same). 250 years ago is 1762. The genocide of Native Americans took place a few decades after that, but today there is still oppression and racism towards them (just look at halloween costumes and the sports team known as the ‘Redskins’. And have you heard of what happens on reservations? Terrible. Popular culture today is blatantly racist towards them. But I digress). You think the charr are going to let go of being against humans that quickly? No. Humans also aren’t going to let go of hating charr that quickly either. (As a whole obviously, there have been humans and charr who got along.)

Oh and one more thing: the Foefire was pretty dang bad. It was not just one city, that’s just where it occurred. It hit the entirety of old Ascalonian territory, you’ll find lots of ghosts outside of Ascalon City nowadays. The souls are tortured and have no free will, they speak only because of the nature of the curse that is upon them. Them attacking people is alike to the Risen of Zhaitan attacking people. They don’t really choose to do it.

Saying that all charr are evil is like saying that all Americans are evil or all Germans or any group of people that has ancestors who committed genocide is evil. That’s simply not the case. But the charr do need to make some progress with making reparations, just as humans do. They’re not blameless. Their ancestors also took charr lands from the charr.

The Charr civil war was an Eye of the North invention, and therefore a purposeful prelude to GW2 lore. ANet had already decided to use the Charr as a playable race for this game and needed a way to bridge that gap. EotN didn’t come out until 2 and a half years after Prophecies, and it was in specific anticipation of GW2.

The Foefire was actually localised to Ascalon City proper. The ghosts you see in GW2 strewn across the landscape are there for mob purposes really. Ghosts can wander off. You’re right they are like the Risen in that regard.

Saying all Charr all evil is nothing like saying all real people are evil who have committed genocide. That’s silly. All computer games have good guys and bad guys, it’s an accepted storyline mechanic. The Charr of Prophecies were no different from the other inherently bad guys like Titans or Shiro’ken, evil to the bone. It wasn’t until Eye of the North that their lore and characteristics take a drastic turn.

Zaxares.5419

Yes. That’s one very important thing to remember. The Charr of 250 years ago were vicious, savage creatures who showed no mercy to their enemies and glorified violence and bloodsport. But the Charr of today? While they’re undeniably still very militaristic and exult in war and fighting, they’re also a lot more civilised and open to peaceful relations with other races. Again, using us humans as examples, 250 years ago slavery was still an accepted institution in many countries. Cultures and societies can change a lot in a short period of time, and it’s not always fair to judge the people of today by the actions of their ancestors.

Mind you, that doesn’t mean I’ll be attending any negotiations with a Charr without a weapon at my side.

I understand forgiveness and progress. But while the former may be just plain hard to do for most Tyrian humans, the latter is my main point of contention. I just really never saw the Charr as capable of anything resembling an organized society, much less an intelligent one.

Bear with me as I use this imperfect analogy. The Charr reminded me a lot of the Uruk-hai orcs from Tolkein lore. Bigger, badder versions of your run-of-the-mill evil orc, they were killing machines. But would you ever imagine them as part of the post-Ring War peace in Middle Earth? Living aside humans, elves, and dwarves in equality and brotherhood? Imagine the following conversation 250 years after Sauron’s fall:

Urgoth(Uruk-hai): “Hey there human, you want a ride?”
Aragorn VI(human): “Hail Urgoth, we have travelled many leagues to reach Isengard. Rumors abound there are dragons brooding again up North in the Withered Heath. Do you know of it?”
Urgoth: (rolls eyes)“Umm yeah…we’ve been fighting them for awhile now, human. Anyway, do you want a ride or not?”
Aragorn VI: “Ride? We have our own horses as you can plainly see, orc,” smirking at his entourage.
Urgoth, sighs, and turns to his engineer, Mitzla, “Do you want to explain it or me?”
Mitzla: snorts, “Hey it was your idea to ask them to come, I could care less.”
Urgoth, turning back to the young King of Gondor, “Anywho…we thought it might be faster to use our zeppelins up on the skydock, but it’s up to you really.”
Aragorn VI: “Zeppelins? Skydock?”
Urgoth, sarcastically slow, he points straight up with the lead stick in his hand he was using to jot down notes.
Aragorn VI and his men look up and freeze in awe. A quarter mile above them, three large, steel platforms span out from Orthanc tower. Uruk-hai and orcs can be seen crawling all over each platform, rigging lines and carrying supplies. Huge metal and canvas balloons hover near two of the platforms, dwarfing the tower in size and majesty. The balloons seem to be loading troops, and more balloons can be seen in the distance, floating northwards over the Misty Mountains. “In Elendil’s name! What is this witchcraft and sorcery?!?”
Mitzla snarles and thumbs his mace.
Urgoth: “Easy Mitz…we have to be nice, we’re on the same side now remember?”
Mitzla grunts and walks off, cursing under his breath.
Urgoth: “You shouldn’t insult Mitzla that way, he’s one of our best engineers. And can probably gut you in 2 seconds,” he adds with a straight face. “Well, the last zeppelin leaves at dusk. Let me know if you want a ride. Either way I don’t care.”
Aragorn VI, watching Urgoth walk away, he turns to his captain, “These Uruks are vile creatures, men should not be made to fly as the crow or eagle.”
Gondor Captain, looking up at the zeppelins, “Perhaps sire, but do they serve coffee in those things?”

rgrwng.4072:

it would be more immersive if they took out all of the land-based walls between zones, and made tyria a true map. when zoomed out in the world map, all i can see are the dark outlines of zones. i don’t know of many RL places that have such borders.

i don’t like the brown outlines of tall mountains to separate each zone. it should just be one continuous map to play in/on, to save on loading screens. these “mountain walls” also assist in immersion-loss, because if i am running from mobs, all i need to do it think, “if i can make it to the portal to the next zone, i am good”. if the walls weren’t there, it would make things more exciting.

Erm…everyone would love this but, of course, it’s not remotely feasible. The zones don’t exist for cosmetic reasons, they have to be there. No current game engine could have an immensely detailed landscape like GW2 and be one huge zone with no walls. Comps would either freeze or fry upon log-in with an entire server population in the same zone.

Yeah I really dig this skill for soloing, especially for many mobs around. The CC is why it’s so useful, not the mediocre damage. Each “vine” has to be individually destroyed to get free of the rather long immobilization. I try to get em in a line or bunched up pretty tight, drop it, roll out, and using the piercing arrows trait to impale em all. And with any aoe buddy along they will suck the life out of mobs with this in effect.

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I searched the forums for it under “troll” anything and nothing came up.

Troll Unguent currently does not benefit from the Ranger Nature Magic trait “Nature’s Bounty.” I assume it has something to do with the TU icon being different from a normal regeneration icon, and hence not firing for it. I don’t know for sure.

My question is was this intentional or overlooked?

Well that is plain suxors! So unless the little regen “icon” is up, something that is regenerating is not considered regenerating??

Moving to bugs/glitches forums…

Thank you guys btw

Does no one use sword/dagger? I usually run with sword/horn for the speed buff, but the dagger has some pretty neat stats.

Combined with sword, you have 3 evades, 2 cripples, 1 bleed, and 2 poisons. It has little aoe potential though(unless you count the perma-crippling for someone else to aoe), but it’s very nice for 1v1 matches.

I actually like the “bug” that sticks you to your target with the sword…you just have to time the evade right.

Can anyone confirm that the 33% regen time-increase trait applies to TU? I have it traited, but I coulda swore it was still 10 seconds long. :/

There’s a jumping puzzle after the Bore Lynch vista in Frostgorge??

Awww…Lornar’s is one of my favorite zones.

It is rather unfair they can throw us off ledges and we can’t do that to them.

Although …think about how that would change gameplay in zones: peeps running around with all knockback skills in zones constantly pushing mobs off ledges. It would most likely get out of hand, but I don’t know for sure.