Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Okay I’ll take it step by step. Guild Wars 1 remained a niche game because a lot of people left the game because it was too hard to make builds and not everyone runs to a wiki to play games. That’s pretty much a given. I know people personally who tried the game and couldn’t cope.

Guild Wars 2 attempts to create an easier entry for people and keep them playing. It’s okay with a game that has a lower budget and 50 devs to lose people rather quickly but Guild Wars 2 is going to need to keep some players longer term. And yes I know the doom and gloom crowd think no one is playing but that’s what’s said about every MMO.

So Anet makes a world with easier content for longer to get people who maybe don’t pick up things quite as quickly to hang around for a while. See there are people that are good, people that are bad, and people that are bad but can improve. But they can’t improve if they don’t stick around.

A lot of people aren’t going to die repeatedly and stick around, even if some resilient people can do that. They’ll go play another game where the open world is more friendly.

So Anet created a friendly open world with friendly builds, which means less options. As I said earlier, I believe they overcompensated. They have a history of doing so.

But if you add more skills to start, you can’t take them away later. They added less skills and over the course of time might very well add more.

In the mean time, more people can just pick up the game and play. Having less options is part of what makes that possible. Having too many build options isn’t welcoming to newcomers.

That’s why so many people have trouble getting into SPvP. Too many options all at once.

Really?

So not only are you saying having fewer options is better than more options, but that easier is better than hard?

And people wonder why kids these days are soft.

The 4 Bloodstones were originally meant to represent the 4 schools of magic. That ship has sailed, of course. I doubt GW2 returns to them. I could be wrong.

Ulyssean.1709:

Any sources of lore not in the game Guild Wars 2 are ‘malleable’. This includes the words of the developers in their interviews, the short stories, the novels and even the game Guild Wars itself.

That bolded part is pretty much standard fodder for the devs.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Obsidian.1328:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SkiTz.4590:

Its sad but pvp is the absolute last thing on anet’s “want to do” list. they literally could care less about it and its pretty evident.

The odd thing is, that almost feels like what the last couple years before GW2 in GW1 were like, aside from the usual balance patches. It just . . . was kind of there.

We both know that’s not because of GW’s original design principles. ANet’s philosophy changed over the years and wanted the game to shift to the PvE side, and they did just that. Not to mention power/skill creep being a huge factor in the disillusionment of the PvP community.

Calling early GW and late GW the same thing is like calling Roth’s Van Halen and Hagar’s Van Halen the same thing…

And yet, people aren’t differentiating, and as such we have a problem you put your finger on. ANet started focusing on PvE because . . . and I recall seeing this in a Q&A but can’t find it again . . . they intended the first game’s PvE to be a somewhat learning process to get the player to learn the basics of the system and then immediately jump into PvP. That . . . didn’t happen, for an overwhelming amount of players, so they shifted gears.

In short, even way back then the players and ANet weren’t in tune for the game’s ultimate purpose. (What a shocker.)

Overwhelming is an overstatement, GW1 had one of the healthiest PvP communities around at the beginning. The issue was that it didn’t happen in the kinds of numbers that they wanted. PvPer’s, especially the hard-core ones, are notorious for being both hard-to-please as well as the minority. That “shift” came about with the realization that they could simply make more money(and have an easier time of it) by courting the PvE crowd. It’s no coincidence there was a rather large staff shift that occurred simultaneously with this. ANet hedged their bets with this and went whole hog on the PvE train with EotN and GW2 development.

They could have tried to stay relevant in the hard-knock world of PvP game development. Instead they chose the safe route in fear of losing a healthy bottom line. There’s nothing really terribly wrong with that I suppose, you gotta pay the bills right? I guess ANet never struck me as the kind of game studio to give up so easily. /shrug

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SkiTz.4590:

Its sad but pvp is the absolute last thing on anet’s “want to do” list. they literally could care less about it and its pretty evident.

The odd thing is, that almost feels like what the last couple years before GW2 in GW1 were like, aside from the usual balance patches. It just . . . was kind of there.

We both know that’s not because of GW’s original design principles. ANet’s philosophy changed over the years and wanted the game to shift to the PvE side, and they did just that. Not to mention power/skill creep being a huge factor in the disillusionment of the PvP community.

Calling early GW and late GW the same thing is like calling Roth’s Van Halen and Hagar’s Van Halen the same thing…

A) Different staff, direction, goals, gameplay, etc, infiniti. Realistically it’s not even the same company. If the game itself doesn’t convince you of that, the volumes of posts on these forums are evidence enough. You simply can’t argue the two games are comparable, much less compatible.
B) That affects the survivability of Ascalon yes, but not of their sovereignty.
C) The White Mantle are puppets of the Mursaat. They would go wherever they were told to go. If the Mursaat themselves can “hike” to the Southern Shivs and the Ring of Fire, I’m preeeeetty sure the Mantle can to. No one questioned them in Kryta cuz they just saved everyone’s kitten from the Charr invasion…way too soon to question your saviors. The first time we hear about them causing trouble is halfway through Maguuma. If you read and look closely at all the little dialogues and events in Proph in Kryta, you can see the author leaves you little breadcrumbs of doubt to follow. We just never get the chance to do anything about it until WiK because the Proph storyline didn’t go back there.
D) Beyond is GW2. The very first line in the description says: Guild Wars Beyond is a series of storylines and events in Guild Wars that helps set the stage for Guild Wars 2. It doesn’t get much more overt than that, Kal.

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Now now Kav, let’s not make silly assumptions. Ascalon didn’t doom itself, The Charr and Titans did through Abaddon resources. If you go back far enough you could legitimately argue the 5 gods themselves doomed Ascalon when they both transplanted the humans there, and royally kittened off Abaddon enough to get back at them by trying to destroy humanity. There wasn’t a nation alive back then that could have withstood Searing magic. If they had all followed Rurik, there wouldn’t even be an Ebon Vanguard or Ebonhawke for that matter. Don’t forget Adelbern’s Foefire vaporized 99% of the Charr in the Ascalon Basin at that time. And like I’ve said before, White Mantle(Krytan) aid back then would have been at the price of slavery for Ascalon(whether Adelbern knew that or not is irrelevant). Also, there’s zero evidence that he murdered that ambassador, nor(before someone says it) Evennia either.

A: I never said they’d prevent the searing. I’m talking post-searing.
B: I’m saying if Rurik was king, he’d accept the aid from the white mantle, which could have changed things drastically.
C: No evidence that they’d be ‘enslaved’ by the White mantle. Or that the white mantle would go after them much. Do recall they basically left Ascalon settlement entirely alone until the Krytan Civil war.
D: He didn’t murder the ambassador we met early in proph. RURIK stopped that one. Evannia however, was barred from Ascalon City, and her last time seen EVER was outside the city waiting for Adelbern to see her. Then she disappeared. Given how LAST time a Krytan ambassador was standing outside the City offering Aid, and Adelbern went after the man to arrest and make him stand trial for TREASON (Likely a death penality)… and ONLY Rurik stopped that, I fail to see how it’s NOT the most reasonable assumption that Adelbern murdered Evennia.

Basically, had Rurik been in charge post searing (or maybe even Barriden), Ascalon likely would’ve gotten aid, even if it was just food and medicine.

And that would’ve changed the prospects. Hell, in the Civil War Kryta basically sent Evennia there with a message of “Let the EbonVanguard aid us, and we will provide support to Ascalon, INCLUDING MILITARY AID.”

A) The Foefire is GW2
B) Yes, Mantle aid might have helped
C) All the evidence in the world that they’d be enslaved. Kryta proper wasn’t overtly “under the whip” during Mantle control. They let people go on with the day-to-day lives. But make no mistake, the Mantle called the shots. And if they wanted to rip your “chosen” baby out of your arms they would. And probably kill you, or at least imprison you, if you tried to stop them. It was akin to a totalitarian theocracy.
D) That is also GW2

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Reclaim? Is more violence what you want? Ascalon is nobody’s true homeland. It was unsettled, then settled by charr, then humans, then charr. Getting rid of the separatist movement and the ghosts are the only true priority, really.

War is never really the answer, despite what people seem to think. If the humans and charr just get over themselves and understand that the extreme violence that they’ve enacted upon one another was childish, and subsequently act towards peace and reparations, that would be the way to go.

Good gods folks, they say violence begets more violence but there’s a point where it’s stupid and people start to sound like teenagers who just want to get back at other teenagers over petty squabbles. Grow up folks.

In the Guild Wars universe, war is an answer. It’s not Earth, it’s not real-life, stop acting like our own ideologies and morals pertain to a fantasy setting. They exist independent of our own world, not subjective to it. That’s kind of the point of these games, ya know…we get to do and be things that we can’t do and be in real life. Violence can be as right as rain in a fantasy setting. And it is(or at least used to be) in Tyria.

Ryan.9387:

saalle.4623:

I have nothing to add,im just writing to keep this tread on first page. Cantha <3

This thread shall never die. It will become a legend.

Maybe it’s more popular than the game itself. :P

Kalavier.1097:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I think if humans reclaimed Ascalon, the ghost problem would be gone. Adelbern’s ghost CLEARLY has communication skills for a phantasm, and the only reason you fight him in AC is because you are with a scumbag Charr, and a drunkard Norn.

Reassert Human Dominance, and Adelbern will tell the ghosts to lay down arms. Ghosts are just mad because Charr are kittening everywhere!

Also stop talking, because if we’re having a serious discussion here, Jennah nor any Krytan has any kittening business in Ascalon, so if an army were to be raised, it should be by the Player Character, and other dominant descendants of Ascalons. Thackarey counts.

Ascalon is for Ascalonians. kitten your jungle-dwelling, primitive, wishy-washy, ex-Mursaat worshipping rats.

The ghosts attack everybody, including humans in the open field.

The only way to stop them is to end the foefire.

Also, Ascalonians can’t retake Ascalon. Not without Krytan Aid.

Amusing how Ascalon doomed itself by following Adelbern. If Rurik had been in power, Ascalon may have withstood the years. Or at least lasted far longer. Kryta offered military and other aid to them during the civil war, but Adelbern refused and likely murdered the ambassador.

Now now Kav, let’s not make silly assumptions. Ascalon didn’t doom itself, The Charr and Titans did through Abaddon resources. If you go back far enough you could legitimately argue the 5 gods themselves doomed Ascalon when they both transplanted the humans there, and royally kittened off Abaddon enough to get back at them by trying to destroy humanity. There wasn’t a nation alive back then that could have withstood Searing magic. If they had all followed Rurik, there wouldn’t even be an Ebon Vanguard or Ebonhawke for that matter. Don’t forget Adelbern’s Foefire vaporized 99% of the Charr in the Ascalon Basin at that time. And like I’ve said before, White Mantle(Krytan) aid back then would have been at the price of slavery for Ascalon(whether Adelbern knew that or not is irrelevant). Also, there’s zero evidence that he murdered that ambassador, nor(before someone says it) Evennia either.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I think if humans reclaimed Ascalon, the ghost problem would be gone. Adelbern’s ghost CLEARLY has communication skills for a phantasm, and the only reason you fight him in AC is because you are with a scumbag Charr, and a drunkard Norn.

Reassert Human Dominance, and Adelbern will tell the ghosts to lay down arms. Ghosts are just mad because Charr are kittening everywhere!

Also stop talking, because if we’re having a serious discussion here, Jennah nor any Krytan has any kittening business in Ascalon, so if an army were to be raised, it should be by the Player Character, and other dominant descendants of Ascalons. Thackarey counts.

Ascalon is for Ascalonians. kitten your jungle-dwelling, primitive, wishy-washy, ex-Mursaat worshipping rats.

Wowsers! And I thought I was bad lol.

It’s fairly obvious this new system was implemented to feed the new Asian demographic. It’s no secret that demographic prefers grinding(work+time) for their skills/traits/etc in MMO’s. Simple marketing tool is all.

Andred.1087:

Nick.6972:

Is Factions main theme more Chinese, Japanese or Korean sounding, just wondering.

I think you’ve pinned down what NCSoft’s problem is with Cantha

The thematic style of Cantha is an amalgamation of many RL “east Asian” cultural styles, those 3 included. Kurzick and Luxon obviously borrow from other areas. The Cantha storyline itself is based off of an old Korean folklore tale.

At any rate, it’s important to note that the GW1 developers went out of their way to not over-emphasize any one RL cultural influence to any single group. So while Cantha is obviously “east Asian” in flavor, it’s considerably harder to pinpoint any particular cultural examples in the game like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. This was done on purpose.

Riathen.2641:

Those who hold the money get to call the shots. You can’t just say no to those sorts of decisions. It’s how most video game development works.

And people wonder why modern mmo’s have no soul.

Artistic integrity means nothing when the choice is between having your game funded or not. My suggestion to you is to never pursue a job in the video games industry because you’d never be able to find/hold a job with that state of mind. It’s not how things work.

Lol, don’t worry. I may be cynical but I’m not stupid.

Ashen.2907:

Obsidian.1328:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? NOT make Guild Wars 2?

Yes.

Then you’re being wholly irrational and unreasonable. There is absolutely no way they DON’T make a game. That’s just ridiculous.

Not really.

If a publisher orders you to not include most of your previous work, should you bow out? Absolutely. How would you react if an art dealer tells you to only show a 3rd of your painting? ANet could have simply refused, lost NCSoft as a publisher, and waited until they found another. Does that suck? Yes. Does it mean a lot of people might have to take a pay hit? Yes.

But at least they get to keep their integrity.

I’m not sure you understand the exact nature of Arenanet / NCSoft business arrangement. I’m pretty sure NCSoft is MUCH more than simply the publisher of this game….Arenanet is a subsidiary of NCSoft (i.e. NCSsoft is technically it’s owner). You can’t say NO and bow out of that arrangement like a petulant 7 year old.

Petulant child…nice way to frame your argument. =D

Here, I’ll reframe it for you:

You can say no and bow out of that arrangement so you can, you know, keep your artistic integrity intact, and not fold like a frightened lamb because a big company is holding a wad of cash over your head.

NCSoft owns ANet and GW2. It is their property. If they say that they want an aspect of the game done in a certain way of course individual employees, potentially even every employee, could quit. This would change nothing. NCSoft could/would just hire replacements and continue with their vision for their game.

Ironically, ANet had a rather large exodus of devs in ‘08-’09. Wonder what they were unhappy with…

“their vision for their game”…right. You mean ANet’s vision and game? So glad people like NCSoft call the shots in today’s MMO ‘verse, and no one fathoms questioning that. Someone like Chris Robertson(regardless of what the future holds) should probably be knighted and given some kind of Nobel prize. Because he’s obviously one of the very few with the balls to stand up for his vision.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? NOT make Guild Wars 2?

Yes.

Then you’re being wholly irrational and unreasonable. There is absolutely no way they DON’T make a game. That’s just ridiculous.

Not really.

If a publisher orders you to not include most of your previous work, should you bow out? Absolutely. How would you react if an art dealer tells you to only show a 3rd of your painting? ANet could have simply refused, lost NCSoft as a publisher, and waited until they found another. Does that suck? Yes. Does it mean a lot of people might have to take a pay hit? Yes.

But at least they get to keep their integrity.

I’m not sure you understand the exact nature of Arenanet / NCSoft business arrangement. I’m pretty sure NCSoft is MUCH more than simply the publisher of this game….Arenanet is a subsidiary of NCSoft (i.e. NCSsoft is technically it’s owner). You can’t say NO and bow out of that arrangement like a petulant 7 year old.

Petulant child…nice way to frame your argument. =D

Here, I’ll reframe it for you:

You can say no and bow out of that arrangement so you can, you know, keep your artistic integrity intact, and not fold like a frightened lamb because a big company is holding a wad of cash over your head.

Dusty Moon.4382:

GW1 did not have build freedom. So many of the skills were just useless or so situational be useless.

People are remembering GW1 fondly but with a revisionist eye – GW1 was even more narrow unless you did Alliance Battles or Jade Quarry.

You’ve got to be out of your mind.

thaooo.5320:

It is a game. It is not real life. It takes inspiration from real life, just like all art. If anyone gets upset from tasteful artistic inspiration, they need a reality check, as this does not affect them in any way, shape or form.

Art is being censored.

You, sir, deserve a medal.

Now look at which 2 countries are involved. China and Korea.

Do not let dictatorships censor art as well as information.

Well…how ’bout a plaque? XD

China isn’t a dictatorship, but it is highly authoritarian. And it has been known to be “generous” with its censorship. Anyone remember Tank Man?

South Korea, where NCSoft is from, is actually democratic and enjoys a relatively high level of personal freedom. North Korea on the other hand…

Kalavier.1097:

Glory of Tyria was a flagship, and far larger then other airships. Also, only a year, maybe two has passed since Zhaitan’s defeat.

Battle for LA was only a few days actually.

Thing is, the actual numbers involved ingame don’t match the lore (because of obvious resource issues). I’ve heard LA had 50k population, and 15k escaped. That’s nowhere close to the actual npc numbers ingame.

Orr had a large population, add that to the ships full of corpses that came to Orr after Zhaitans rise (You stop the flagship in personal story one path you can take), and other factors (shipwrecks in the area post Orr sinking, etc)… that’s a very large population to cut through. They’ll likely be cleanup operations for a long time.

That’s off-topic though :P. Seems like the two main people for Ascalon being human controlled and awesome aren’t responding anymore. A pity, I was curious to what the response to the fact the heroes didn’t experience all the campaigns would be.

I still check in to this thread, but the topic veered elsewhere so I haven’t posted anything. /shrug

I don’t really have anything to say about numbers of airships or LA inhabitants. You mentioned the in-game population being no where near the stated population…is that at all surprising? A ton of in-game visuals are supposed to represent aspects of expected lore realities, not be direct correlations of them. How in the world would a game designer put 50k npc’s in LA and not have the system crash?

What was your question about heroes?

It’s not so much that Cantha had Chinese themes in it. It was more that Cantha had a mix of Chinese, Korean, and Japanese themes mixed together…which probably bothers a lot of peeps over there. Historically, they don’t get along very well.

I just don’t understand why, when this very thing existed in GW1, and there were east-Asian players, that it was not an issue.

What changed?

Sartharina.3542:

…and the Inquest are one of the most devastating, tenacious, and far-reaching threats facing Tyria.

Huh?

You mean those guys in Metrica trying get peeps to join them? They seemed like a mix between a bad Army recruiter and a loan shark. They are supposed to be threatening?

This is what I usually run with: Well-Necro build for zergs
It’s not perfect but it gets the job done. Passive life siphon, boon stripping, and might stacking. And protection on wells helps out your friendlies a lot. You can also opt in the blind/chill Well as needed.

Fluffball.8307:

Obsidian.1328:

There are too many other valuable traits in that line other than Spotter. EE + Piercing Arrows or EE + Read the Wind are both better combo’s than anything which included Spotter. Even Piercing Arrows + Read the Wind is better. Not to mention if you’re using Survival of the Fittest, you should have a lot of Fury uptime. Don’t get me wrong, I’d really like to use it, but I just don’t see how I could give up anything else for it.

You can always take the ugly Red Moa with you. :P

You never need PA and RtW at the same time. Also the OP said when you’re on your own, so EE + PA is pretty much the worst possible trait setup. RtW and spotter or RtW and EE if you want the range. Maybe PA for camps, but I melee those, so still spotter.

PA + RtW is still good for small-man group-play. Solo roaming I’d use RtW and EE if only to catch them when they run…you’d be using your melee weapon more for 1v1 encounters anyways. And if you’re a power ranger that means either GS or S/WH. WH will give you a lot of fury uptime, and so will GS if you trait 2-Handed Training…which is a good choice considering SotF is arguable the best trait to use for solo and you’ll have 6 in that traitline anyway. It’s true Spotter gives you better overall crit chance, but you either lose out on range or arrow speed or pierce. Besides, you shouldn’t expect to be critting most of the time to be successful; a 50% crit rate is optimal unless you are uber at evading/dodging and don’t need a lot of toughness/vit.

So…basically, unless you can get to +100% condi duration, Bonfire is only ever guaranteed to tick for 1 second(since 1-1.9s is still considered 1s for DoT purposes). Am I seeing that right? If that’s the case, it almost seems better off to aim for +50% condi duration and try keeping someone in the ring for at least 2 ticks(which shouldn’t be that hard) so you can get a full 3 dmg ticks off of 2s of Bonfire. Seems the most efficient to me.

There are too many other valuable traits in that line other than Spotter. EE + Piercing Arrows or EE + Read the Wind are both better combo’s than anything which included Spotter. Even Piercing Arrows + Read the Wind is better. Not to mention if you’re using Survival of the Fittest, you should have a lot of Fury uptime. Don’t get me wrong, I’d really like to use it, but I just don’t see how I could give up anything else for it.

You can always take the ugly Red Moa with you. :P

Chrispy.5641:

The damage does not increase because Burning only damages on a full second. The tooltip will not calculate damage inbetween seconds.

If you increase your condition/burn duration to 100%, then each pulse of bonfire will be 2 seconds long, and the damage in the tooltip will increase.

Holy crap, I didn’t know that. Is that true? (I almost exclusively go power/crit)

And if so, does that mean that if you have like 1-3/4s duration that really only counts as 1? Like it won’t round up?

Sartharina.3542:

Furthermore, when it comes to video games and other committee-designed artistic endeavours, it’s the creator (In this case ArenaNet), not individual writers, who hold authorial fiat and authority. Guild Wars was written for/by ArenaNet. Rights/privileges/respects to the original material are held by ArenaNet, not the individual authors, who were commissioned to write the story on behalf of ArenaNet. Any changes ArenaNet wants to make, it’s allowed to make, for any reason it wants. Furthermore, ArenaNet is the creator, not merely a publisher, meaning it has full copyright privileges without the ugly abuses and snafus caused when a publisher withholds/revokes/changes an IP without consent from the creator.

If ArenaNet was a studio headed by a single designer (And thus dissolved if he chooses to leave) like studios such as Doublefine Entertainment or any of Peter Molyneux’s past studios, then it would be a different situation. But it’s not.

You would be a great lawyer or politician.

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Do you see the same writers on all of those?

Actually, of the GW1 writers, all but two are in the credits of GW2 (I just checked).

That’s interesting, considering one guy wrote all of the Proph and most of the Factions storyline. Interesting as well that with Nightfall we start to see the game take a drastically different direction. Could it be that Nightfall was the transitional period between development teams? Say it ain’t so, Joe! Have I said this many times before? Perhaps.

Btw, I’ve spent time researching those wiki dev lists. If you cross reference them with other sources, some of them don’t correlate. Wierdsies I tell ya.

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Do you see the same writers on all of those?

Kalavier.1097:

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Sartharina.3542:

The core experience and themes are designed and allowed to be different. Otherwise, it would just be another expansion for Guild Wars.

Not necessarily. Adding a “2” does not mean different.

Seth.1308:

Which other classes get any benefit for refusing to use the class active abilities?

Which other classes have a mandatory direct dmg loss because of their class specific ability?

That argument carries no weight because we’re asking for a different class specific mechanic, not none at all.

Although I’d arguably take none at all at this point.

Sartharina.3542:

Books and movies aren’t confined to your obscure definition of continuity, either. It’s very common for authors and filmmakers and others to, when making a sequel to a work, completely re-evaluate the core narrative and change it to be something else, while still using the same world.

They aren’t confined to yours either. You’re right it’s common to do so, but each change should be judged on how it reflects the original work.

As for your songwriting comparison – Pretty much every songmaker throughout history, from Mozart and before to Blackwell and beyond, strongly disagree with your opinion.

Not really, that’s why their called cover songs. “I Shot the Sheriff” is a Marley song. Clapton covered it, but that doesn’t make it his. It’s his version of it, just like GW2 is ANet’s version of GW1. They essential aren’t the same thing.

As for Ascalon being “Charr Homeland” – it was as much their homeland as the place they were pushed back to before the First Guild Wars, and saying otherwise is like… you’re saying Ireland is your homeland, right? It’s like saying that Northern Ireland isn’t part of your homeland because it’s Great Britain. There are charr clans capable of drawing their histories back to wandering the entire plains running from the Blazing Steppes to the foothills of the Shiverpeak Mountains all as one land, before the humans came along, cut that land to pieces, and called part of it “Ascalon”.

You have no way of knowing any of that.

And by your own definition of Homeland, Ascalon is not a human homeland, either. Settlements are no more permanent or meaningful than anywhere else a family is raised for generations. Humans therefore are stuck referring to only where the gods first plopped them down as their homeland.

You’re right, it’s not humanity’s homeland. It’s only Ascalonian’s homeland. I’m not arguing about humanity.

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Yeah, that thinking was before giant dragons appeared that made all those petty issues suddenly look like a bad idea to hold onto blindly.

See Charr willing to set aside hatred of Ebonhawke humans because they CLEARLY see how big a threat the dragons are with the brand.

…which is exactly why they brought the ED’s on board. Can you not see that?

In other words, it wasn’t the ED’s that caused the races to unite. But rather it was the wishes of the new devs to do so because of a new marketing approach, and the ED’s were the mechanic through which they accomplished that.

I find this so amusing really. You basically state “Oh, it’d be fine if this happens because of this reason!” and then decry GW2, despite that reason being the cause of it.

You seem to claim to accept things, but then declare them as wrong because the devs wanted the story to go that way.

Guess what, that’s true for EVERYTHING. I suppose you hate all changes across every universe because that’s how things go for EVERY SINGLE SETTING. The writer wants the story to go into a certain direction, and thus introduces or explains elements of the story to make it so.

Such as Gollum in LOTR was originally a friendly being as I’ve read, but to make later scenes work, he was turned into his present form.

No, just changes that are obviously ridiculous and asinine.

Btw, your Gollum thing is backwards. Tolkien wrote out his meager backstory as a humble nitwit to go along with the whole “the ring corrupts everyone” thing. The concept of Gollum, as a part of The Hobbit, came before Smeagol.

Kalavier.1097:

The only problem with what you say is that fact our knowledge of Tyria history comes from an in-universe human’s viewpoint, NOT the viewpoint of the author or from an out of the game standing.

So there is obviously going to be blank parts and unfilled perspectives, there is ALWAYS that when you do in universe viewpoints.

edit: It’s like Lord of the rings. We read about Gandalf dying at Moria, but later we are shown that he actually survived (in a way) and came back. This is simply a perspective shift.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

This topic is a great showcase of double standards/hypocrisy.

It’s fine for humans to scream in rage over lost nations and/or homelands, and try to retake them.

However, it is NOT fine for other races (Centaurs, Charr, etc) to have the exact same feelings and try to (and/or successfully) take back their lands.

I never said that, it’s perfectly fine for other races to fight over their homeland. Ascalon was never Charr homeland though. And we have no idea if the Centaurs called Kryta proper theirs.

Says who? We have nothing in GW1 that says with word of god authority that the region is not charr ancestral homeland.

I see. So because it’s not explicitly mentioned it cannot be? Got it.

Learn to read between the lines and see the narrative for what the author is trying to convey, and not simply write down facts on a sheet like it’s a history class.

Kalavier.1097:

Yeah, that thinking was before giant dragons appeared that made all those petty issues suddenly look like a bad idea to hold onto blindly.

See Charr willing to set aside hatred of Ebonhawke humans because they CLEARLY see how big a threat the dragons are with the brand.

…which is exactly why they brought the ED’s on board. Can you not see that?

In other words, it wasn’t the ED’s that caused the races to unite. But rather it was the wishes of the new devs to do so because of a new marketing approach, and the ED’s were the mechanic through which they accomplished that.

Kalavier.1097:

This topic is a great showcase of double standards/hypocrisy.

It’s fine for humans to scream in rage over lost nations and/or homelands, and try to retake them.

However, it is NOT fine for other races (Centaurs, Charr, etc) to have the exact same feelings and try to (and/or successfully) take back their lands.

I never said that, it’s perfectly fine for other races to fight over their homeland. Ascalon was never Charr homeland though. And we have no idea if the Centaurs called Kryta proper theirs.

Sartharina.3542:

Also… I keep seeing Obsidian saying that it’s wrong for Guild Wars 2 to have a different core narrative than the first game, which I think is absolute nonsense. It’s perfectly acceptable for a creative work to have one installment of the series present one core narrative (Actually, in the case of a game, core experience. Games are not books. Games are not Movies), then have a future work in the same series provide a deconstruction, reconstruction, or even simply different take on the themes and core experiences of an original work. Guild Wars 2 is a standalone product, not beholden to the first game except in that it shares a world and timeline. It hasn’t retconned anything, but instead fleshed out and emphasized past events to change the narrative, much as real-world history classes change the emphasis on events that happened to paint an overarching, thematic narrative to give direction to human progress/regress. (I just had to sit through a class of American History studying the rise of the nation in the context of spreading, defining or restricting freedom)

No. Absolutely no. It is just like a movie or book. Just because the story is used for a game doesn’t mean it doesn’t adhere to the implications those forms of art entail. The story would exist(albeit in relative obscurity) with or without the actual game being around. And it isn’t like some modern history class where we can discover different points of view on things based on new evidence. It isn’t like that because 1) it’s not real, it’s made up, and 2) there is only one point of view for it: the author’s point of view. Taking parts of it and changing them to suit your needs is the equivalent of taking a Beatles song, changing some of the words and making it a country song, and then having the gall to say this is a legit extension of their work. It’s not just wrong, it’s insulting.

Sartharina.3542:

Simple definition of homeland – the land where someone (A person, family, clan, or even race) was born, raised, and prospered on.

The humans, Norn, and Asura are all extremely imperialist. The Humans are Imperialist with their God-given mandate to civilize and spread their version of order and governance to the land. The Charr are imperialist in their desire to conquer the land for the glory of the Legions (Now that they’ve developed their militant culture as a reaction to overcome human imperialism and later Flame Legion theocracy), and the Asura see themselves as the only ones with the brains to conquer and rule the above-ground world as they had the subterrain before.

This is where we disagree. A homeland isn’t simply where you grew up, it’s where your culture is rooted. For instance, technically speaking, my own homeland isn’t America, but rather Ireland. It’s where I owe most of my cultural heritage and where my ancestors and people came from. That’s why you have the terms German-American, or Japanese-American, etc. I’d still take up arms to defend and die for America, I owe it my life and rights. But I’d also do the same for Ireland if need be, and yet more passionately so. Some would say that’s backwards thinking, and they’d even have a point. I mean, that calls to question all sorts of loyalty issues. But it is what it is.

GW1 Tyria was written in that same line of thinking: i.e. various distinct nations all vying for survival and control and dominance in a world rife with internal warfare. It’s supposed to be uncivilized in that regard. It’s supposed to be a world where all of those nationalistic ideas are commonplace. Turning it into some utopian community where we all hold hands now for the common good is outside the realm of its existence.

Found this on the GW1 wiki, /shrug:

Patronage

• Balthazar: Command & Spear Paragons, Fire Elementalists, Scythe Dervishes, Protection & Smiting Monks, and Warriors.
• Dwayna: Air Elementalists, Divine Favor & Healing Monks, Leadership & Motivation Paragons, and Wind Dervishes.
• Grenth: Assassins, Necromancers, Ritualists, and Water Elementalists.
• Melandru: Earth Dervishes, Earth Elementalists, and Rangers.
• Lyssa: Assassins, Energy Storage Elementalists, Mysticism Dervishes, and Mesmers.

Axe 2 is really useful for two reasons: it channels through stealth and it procs crit sigils very well. Axe 3 I think everyone can agree is good. Axe 1 really just needs to be able to work without a target, that’s all.

Staff is actually the power ranged weapon for necro. The auto pierces(if target is behind peeps), and the marks all hit well with high power, especially putrid.

The only downside is the auto-attack projectile speed. It’s slow. But it’s not supposed to be fast, that’s what Rangers are for. If they made the projectile as fast as an arrow, Necros would be OP.

nekretaal.6485:

It’s severely underpowered compared to Mesmer focus pull and guardian GS 5. It also seems to have an aftercast which limits what you can o with it.

That mesmer pull has silly proximity range. Sometimes I’ll see it 40 ft to my left and think “way too far to get me.” And sure enough, I’ll get pulled out of the lords room, down the ramp, weaved through the wall crenellations, over a cactus(j/k), and onto the ground. /le sigh

But yeah, SG is buggy for me too. It’s always a gamble.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

While rapid fire does do less damage in general than the aa if you have an on hit sigil then it can be an offensive/defensive boost.

I noticed this recently with a Sigil of Strength. Sometimes now I’ll use both Rapid Fire and Barrage at the beginning of an engagement to build might stacks. You can easily get 10+ stacks on your own off of one Barrage into a group…with enough precision .

DeceiverX.8361:

RoA is pointless unless you’re roaming.

I agree with everything else you said, but this? Entangle lasts all of 0.5 seconds in a zerg fight. And there seems to be no end to the number of necros and mezes that are doing aoe boon stripping. It’s saved my life plenty of times.

What other leet would you recommend?

Edit: woops, I read RaO. What is RoA?

Kalavier.1097:

Does it matter? Humans explicitly took land from them, so they should just sit back and accept this right?

It does matter, yes.

Realistically, Ascalon wasn’t going to last, period. All they had was two cities as of post-searing, Rin was destroyed. Ascalon city, and a bunch of ruins. ANYBODY could conquer it. A focused Charr invasion (Likely, regardless of Titan loss) would destroy whats left.

How do you know they only had one city left? You know, everyone is so quick to judge Ascalon on only what you see in the game and nothing else. Yet when it comes to the Charr, they are assumed to have legions and legions up north just waiting to descend south. If the explorable lands of post-searing Ascalon is all you count for that kingdom, then I get to only count what Charr I see north of the wall. Sound fair?

I’m unsure how that attests to it… bar having events from factions (which took place same year as proph post searing). Infact, they basically just have mention of factions events as of him wandering around(Shiro that is). I see nothing that really supports Ascalon lasting for many, many years.

What does Shiro have to do with it?
[qutoe]Ascalon had basically no natural resources, very little farmable land (if any), water was apparently scarce, food likely worse off. and numbers dwindle heavily.

How could they last many years, especially if the Charr decided to finish it off and charge again? They had ONE city as of proph (Rin was destroyed), and handful of outposts of structures elsewhere. I think Ascalon surviving for a long while (Especially under the rule of Adelbern who refused ANY aid from Kryta) is unrealistic to the lore.[/quote]
Again, see above.

The charr received barely ANY writing in Proph, so nobody could really make out anything of their culture other then “They revere fire!” and “They hate humans.” We NEVER saw them talk, just charge and roar.

So again, how can we say the shamans or flame legion weren’t forcing them or in control? Because we have NO indicators of their culture at all.

Did you see any of them forcing others to do stuff? We’re they portrayed as totalitarian or something? They were meant to be the main protagonist of Proph, and then forgotten. It’s great they rewrote as something different, but having the “Flame Legion” forcing all the other Charr to do their bidding was included so that we(as players) can’t legitimately blame them for trying to burn Tyria back then, nothing more.

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

It was nobody’s homeland before that…that’s the point. Unless you want to say Grawl or Gargoyle or something. You seem to have a different definition of homeland. Being inside someone’s territory doesn’t make you in their homeland. The Blazeridge Steppes were to the Charr what the Italian peninsula was to Rome. Stepping across Hadrian’s wall in England didn’t put you in Roman homeland, just their territory. Why are you arguing this, I thought this was a no-brainer?

How do we know that it was nobodies homeland? We always knew that humanity took it from somebody. This “no-brainer” is based on unsupported assumptions that turned out to be wrong. before a-net said it was charr land we knew nothing of the history of the people who humanity took it from. saying that it was nobodies implies that we knew anything about it pre-humanity.

edit: I’d ask what your definition of homeland is. because anything that could qualify Ascalon as humanities homeland will also support it being a possibility for charr ancestrial homeland before we ever knew that it actually was.

It wasn’t a wrong assumption. If the Proph writers had meant for it to be some Charr homeland, they certainly would have mentioned it at least once in the whole campaign. There was never any indication, whether through the lore nor through direct quotes, of it having been some ancestral homeland of the Charr. You’d think, at any point in that long saga, you’d hear a Charr say something to the effect of “We’re taking our home back!” You don’t because they aren’t from there…well that and they couldn’t even speak the common tongue. It probably would have been a better story had the writer decided to do that, but they didn’t.

Definition of homeland? Just use my Rome example. Oh and Ascalon is Ascalons homeland, not humanities in general.

Kalavier.1097:

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Nobody is saying the searing was warranted or right. Infact, a large chunk of Charr think of it as bad.

Flame legion is, and was bad guys. That’s the BIGGEST problem I see here and ingame (even among friends). People universally hate the charr, but in reality they just hate the flame legion actions.

No. Just No. That is the biggest bunch of crap ANet has tried to lay on us. Until GW2 development, it was ALL Charr that wanted to roflstomp humanity. Don’t put that crap out there so players will believe it, it’s irresponsible.

A: I’m talking ‘modern’ Charr, not the charr of prophecies time.
B: Yes, charr wanted to stomp humanity. Then they had a leadership change. Now they view the war as done (as it was mainly about Ascalon) and focus on bigger threats.
C: SOME Charr praise the searing and the leader of the Charr at the battle of Rin. Others think the tale is twisted and seek the truth. Some hate humans, others hate what the Flame Legion did. They don’t all share the same viewpoint.

Yes, now they don’t. But back then they did. It wasn’t the Flame Legion forcing them into anything back then, it was all of them. That’s how they were written and portrayed by the author.

Kalavier.1097:

So it’s bad for the Centaurs to be shown to retake their lands from humans who have explicitly taken lands from them…

Is Kryta their homeland?

Realistically, Ascalon wasn’t going to last, period. All they had was two cities as of post-searing, Rin was destroyed. Ascalon city, and a bunch of ruins. ANYBODY could conquer it. A focused Charr invasion (Likely, regardless of Titan loss) would destroy whats left.

And that’s exactly what happened.

It was supposed to last. The Empire Divided passages attest to that, which, btw, were written by the same author.

Ascalon was a dead person clinging to life support. Kryta was rebuilding. Of the two nations, which do you see lasting 250 years? I see Kryta lasting. If you didn’t see that coming in the lore, I pity you. You also basically say “Not because of humanities usurping the land” yet that is EXACTLY what happened to Ascalon. So you would accept that… besides when it actually happens?

I see them both lasting actually. But I certainly wouldn’t have had it 250 years later and modernized the game with tanks and lasers and flying battleships…another argument.
Also, all humans usurped the land from Tyrians, they aren’t from here remember? The moral schtick of GW1 was to provide impetus and reason to why the world was burning. Some of that was due to humanity, and some of it was plain old evilness.

Kalavier.1097:

Nobody is saying the searing was warranted or right. Infact, a large chunk of Charr think of it as bad.

Flame legion is, and was bad guys. That’s the BIGGEST problem I see here and ingame (even among friends). People universally hate the charr, but in reality they just hate the flame legion actions.

No. Just No. That is the biggest bunch of crap ANet has tried to lay on us. Until GW2 development, it was ALL Charr that wanted to roflstomp humanity. Don’t put that crap out there so players will believe it, it’s irresponsible.