Guild Wars 2

Like Ronin said, the vid is Barradin’s Vault.

In-game, go to the very end of that crypt, turn around in the middle of that room looking out through the archway. Every single slab, stone, rock, and pebble lines up perfectly with that vid. Rytlok is in that room when he slams the sword down.

Astralporing.1957:

Obsidian.1328:

Even if that were still somehow true, that means the ancestral homeland of the Charr is named after a human kingdom? They didn’t have their own name for the birthplace of their entire race before humans got there?

Perhaps they had one, but it got forgotten in the 1000 years of exile. Or perhaps that name was Ascalon, and it was humans that named their kingdom after the land they conquered.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps…

Obsidian.1328:

Obsidian.1328:

Not true, actually. It’s name only refers to the land controlled by Ascalon. Think ancient Rome — that could mean only Italy or most of Europe depending on which century you’re talking about. For instance, right now, being “in Ascalon” means you’d have to be only in Ebonhawke or the land immediately around it. You don’t see people referring to Metrica Province as Riverside Province, do you? The name implies the nation.

And yet Fireheart Rise, which lies beyond terrains controlled by former Ascalonian kingdom, is part of the lands of Ascalon. And when curse was cast, Ebonhawke, a part of ascalonian kingdom, was not affected by Foefire.

Actually, Fireheart Rise is within the old Ascalon borders. Pre-Wall, Ascalon extended all the way to that mountain range. Duke Gabon’s Estate was considered its farthest northern outpost. Ebonhawke was written to be juuuuuuuuuust outside the Foefire’s range. You’ll have to ask the writer why he chose to spare that little spot.

Obsidian.1328:

I can’t decide if ANet just forgot to think about that or are simply too lazy to come up with their own name and backstory for it.

I really need to stop giving them these freebies.

Want to play WikiWars? Here, I’ll give you the lines before your link so it’s not, you know, taken out of context:

“Ascalon is a beleaguered human nation in Tyria. Ascalon lies between the large Shiverpeak Mountains to the west and the Blazeridge Mountains to the east. Humans conquered a large portion of the land and established Ascalon in 100 BE and holds King’s Watch, where King Doric was crowned.”

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Ascalon is a former human nation, not an area of land.

Huh?

Humans conquered a large portion of the land and established Ascalon in 100 BE and holds King’s Watch, where King Doric was crowned.

I don’t understand how you can link to a source and have that same link contradict your statement.

How do those two links contradict each other exactly?

Changer the Elder.2948:

Obsidian.1328:

Astralporing.1957:

Obsidian.1328:

Ascalon is a (former)human nation, not an area of land.

It is both, actually – a human nation, and the name of the land it lies on. Case in point? Ebonhawke, at the moment the curse was cast, was a part of the Ascalonian kingdom, but not a part of lands of Ascalon (and that’s why it got spared by the curse – it was the land that got affected, not the kingdom).

Not true, actually. It’s name only refers to the land controlled by Ascalon. Think ancient Rome — that could mean only Italy or most of Europe depending on which century you’re talking about. For instance, right now, being “in Ascalon” means you’d have to be only in Ebonhawke or the land immediately around it. You don’t see people referring to Metrica Province as Riverside Province, do you? The name implies the nation.

And yet, you hear charr proclaim stuff like “Ascalon is ours” or “Ascalon is our land”. Charr born and raised in Black Citadel and neighboring areas consider themselves coming from Ascalon, because the land inherited the name of the kingdom. It doesn’t always happen (as is the case of Rome), but it still happens (as is the case of America). Settlers came, named it something, name was catchy enough to stick. Now it’s used by everyone born in there. It’s not showing “Brown Patch Of Land Formerly Known As Kingdom of Ascalon” on the map, it’s showing as “Ascalon”, despite the kingdom of said name being long ruined and nonexistent.

That’s not the same thing, the USofA was named after the land, not the other way around. Ascalons were Ascalons, the land inherited their name.

What you say would be true for something like New England in NE America. But even if, say, the Micmacs somehow reconquered it, do you really think they’d call it “New England?”

Even if that were still somehow true, that means the ancestral homeland of the Charr is named after a human kingdom? They didn’t have their own name for the birthplace of their entire race before humans got there?

I can’t decide if ANet just forgot to think about that or are simply too lazy to come up with their own name and backstory for it.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Obsidian.1328:

It doesn’t have to be that way. I mean look at Star Citizen. Robertson’s initial goal was what, 500k in crowdfunding? It’s now at about 50 million. And space sims aren’t exactly mainstream.

All I’m saying is there are ways around the “meta” for bankrolling these games. I have no idea if SC will be any good, but the amount of people willing to throw money at a game that doesn’t(seem to) cater to greedy investors should tell you something.

There’s always a choice, even if that choice is don’t play any of them.

So you think if Chris Roberts (not Reobertson…) name wasn’t on this thing it would have been successful at all? There are a LOT of well off video gamers that cut their teeth on Wing Commander and kind of worship the guy (even after that horrid Movie he got talked into). I loved the series, but I’m not giving the guy $100 up front….

That’s odd…didn’t GW1 ANet have some of the most loyal fans in the industry?

Not in the same numbers over the same amount of time. Guild Wars 1 was a niche game. You know that 7 million sales it wracked up. That was 7 million sales among all titles. My wife and I have five accounts between us. Many people had more by themselves. But we had five accounts of four games. So two of us has 20 of those sales.

Guild Wars 1 was popular, but you can’t compare it to the Wing Commander series.

Edit: Last time I checked there was never a Guild Wars movie.

Brand loyalty doesn’t have anything to do with numbers. It was highly successful as a co-op rpg. Grimm was talking about putting faith in a developer based on player loyalty.

And there sure as heck ain’t gonna be a Guild Wars movie now, is there? I wonder why that is…

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Well…to be fair it technically is an MMORPG, it’s a persistent ‘verse. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’d say the way to get us REALLY good games, is rather to convince the average Joe to start buying great games. The trick is to prove you have a great game for ’em.

It’s not an RPG it’s a space flight sim with some RPG elements. No one is doing it. The guy is absolutely famous because of previous games he’s designed for Origin. It’s like saying Learner and Lowe could get someone to invest in their musical. Hardly a standard situation.

It’s still an mmorpg, you’re playing a role in a persistent world. The space sim part is simply the platform its presented on.

At any rate, you’re missing the point. By accepting a “least common denominator” mentality for these games you’re indirectly supporting shallow development. Like I said, if you don’t want to support that kind of mentality, don’t play them anymore.

Only works if the bulk of people do the same thing, that’s my point.

Ummm…what? So W3 and sPvP in GW2 don’t count since they have low populations? I have no idea what you mean here.

If I don’t play any games and only wait for the one super uber best game ever to come out, I’ll not have any games.

Correct. And the gaming community would force studios to make better games because of it.

Ummm no, you’re not following me. If I stop buying games, on my own, then nothing will happen. If EVERYONE stops buying games then the industry will be forced to improve. The problem is, everyone isn’t going to stop buying games and most companies can get along nicely without me. So I get no games at all, and everything stays the same…except that I won’t be playing anything.

It’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face. It’s a bad move, unless you can get enough numbers boycotting to make a dent in profits.

…said no protest movement ever.

Protest movements usually stand for something substantial. LIke you know, freeing people from bondage, or saving the Earth from global warming. And many of those protest movements aren’t successful if you haven’t noticed. But they’re worth fighting for for years if you believe in them. It might take 20 years before the industry even feels a boycott. I could be long dead by then. This is just a bad analogy.

You’re equating the life and death struggles of people in the world to someone making games you like.

Not really, remember the New Coke outrage? Thousands of /raging Americans ready to storm Coke HQ over a friggin’ soft drink. You don’t have to be saving the world to protest something, dude.

Astralporing.1957:

Obsidian.1328:

Ascalon is a (former)human nation, not an area of land.

It is both, actually – a human nation, and the name of the land it lies on. Case in point? Ebonhawke, at the moment the curse was cast, was a part of the Ascalonian kingdom, but not a part of lands of Ascalon (and that’s why it got spared by the curse – it was the land that got affected, not the kingdom).

Not true, actually. It’s name only refers to the land controlled by Ascalon. Think ancient Rome — that could mean only Italy or most of Europe depending on which century you’re talking about. For instance, right now, being “in Ascalon” means you’d have to be only in Ebonhawke or the land immediately around it. You don’t see people referring to Metrica Province as Riverside Province, do you? The name implies the nation.

Cartheb.4861:

Genesis.8572:

No, true kingship requires a moistened bint to lob a scimitar at you.

Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government

Awww, /sadpanda

And here I thought he was talking about Habib from Baldur’s Gate II.

Ascalon is a (former)human nation, not an area of land.

Daniel Frozenwind.2946:

H’okai so, this is how it will go down…

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

• Rytlock: “I free you from this curse!”.
• Zombie Rurik’s ghost appears on the Ring of Fire Islands (the Lich’s curse finally wears off).
• Rurik floats back to Ascalon and proceeds to /facepalm.
• King Adelbern and Prince Rurik duke it out.
• Duke Barradin finally loses it.
• They destroy each other.
• Player characters zerg against Ascalonian Ghosts like crazy to reach Sohothin.
• Kormir arrives to grant them peace and take all the credit.
• Eir arrives carrying Magdaer.
• Trahearne appears just before the end of season cut scene, clinks the swords together and becomes a god-like being imbued with the power of the swords.
• Players get a few silver and some Bloodstone Dust.
• -fin-

Holy crap, that was funny.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Obsidian.1328:

It doesn’t have to be that way. I mean look at Star Citizen. Robertson’s initial goal was what, 500k in crowdfunding? It’s now at about 50 million. And space sims aren’t exactly mainstream.

All I’m saying is there are ways around the “meta” for bankrolling these games. I have no idea if SC will be any good, but the amount of people willing to throw money at a game that doesn’t(seem to) cater to greedy investors should tell you something.

There’s always a choice, even if that choice is don’t play any of them.

So you think if Chris Roberts (not Reobertson…) name wasn’t on this thing it would have been successful at all? There are a LOT of well off video gamers that cut their teeth on Wing Commander and kind of worship the guy (even after that horrid Movie he got talked into). I loved the series, but I’m not giving the guy $100 up front….

That’s odd…didn’t GW1 ANet have some of the most loyal fans in the industry?

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Well…to be fair it technically is an MMORPG, it’s a persistent ‘verse. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’d say the way to get us REALLY good games, is rather to convince the average Joe to start buying great games. The trick is to prove you have a great game for ’em.

It’s not an RPG it’s a space flight sim with some RPG elements. No one is doing it. The guy is absolutely famous because of previous games he’s designed for Origin. It’s like saying Learner and Lowe could get someone to invest in their musical. Hardly a standard situation.

It’s still an mmorpg, you’re playing a role in a persistent world. The space sim part is simply the platform its presented on.

At any rate, you’re missing the point. By accepting a “least common denominator” mentality for these games you’re indirectly supporting shallow development. Like I said, if you don’t want to support that kind of mentality, don’t play them anymore.

Only works if the bulk of people do the same thing, that’s my point.

Ummm…what? So W3 and sPvP in GW2 don’t count since they have low populations? I have no idea what you mean here.

If I don’t play any games and only wait for the one super uber best game ever to come out, I’ll not have any games.

Correct. And the gaming community would force studios to make better games because of it.

Ummm no, you’re not following me. If I stop buying games, on my own, then nothing will happen. If EVERYONE stops buying games then the industry will be forced to improve. The problem is, everyone isn’t going to stop buying games and most companies can get along nicely without me. So I get no games at all, and everything stays the same…except that I won’t be playing anything.

It’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face. It’s a bad move, unless you can get enough numbers boycotting to make a dent in profits.

…said no protest movement ever.

lordkrall.7241:

Obsidian.1328:

Because it’s not fantasy anymore. It’s a Sci-Fi game.

It is very much fantasy (even if it were mainly Sci-Fi it would still be fantasy, seeing as Sci-Fi is basically a branch of Fantasy).

Don’t be nitpicky, kind sir, you know what I mean. Fantasy, like Tyria is both a planet and a continent, is both a genre and a subgenre. Meaning Guild Wars is(was) niether sci-fi nor horror…you know, the other two fantasy sub-genres.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ley lines will be involved.

^ I would genuinely be surprised if they weren’t involved.

Shiren.9532:

That’s my least favourite theory – why have a fantasy world if the prophecies are just made up? We have fortune tellers in real life to do that.

Because it’s not fantasy anymore. It’s a Sci-Fi game.

DraconicDak.9340:

There’s a fault in your logic, Frosch.

1. Ghosts of Ascalon presents a ghost, Savione, who is not under the Foefire curse.

2. We know that he was killed before the Foefire.

3. The narrative of the Foefire explicitly states that the cursed ghosts were created when the wave of light destroyed living Ascalonian soldiers’ bodies.

4. You say that there is no explanation given for why he is not cursed.

Your cry of plot device is missing the very clear connection between “killed by Foefire” and “cursed by Foefire.”

Furthermore, there is nothing that implies in any way that the Foefire raised the dead:

“The air in Ascalon City rang with a choir of their screams as the humans died in their tracks. Their bodies were blasted into burning fragments, but their spirits remained standing. Their mortal forms were reduced to broken skeletons but their souls remained, eternally bound to Ascalon. Only the charr close to the city were destroyed in the blast, but every human for leagues around was suddenly transformed into a ghost.”

That’s an acceptable distance to account for the Ascalonian ghosts throughout the zones, and Ascalonian ghosts are specifically described as living Ascalonians killed and cursed by the Foefire.

No shaky assumptions are necessary. Logic, and the elements presented, create an answer of themselves.

That’s a fault with ANet’s logic then. If there are ghosts that talk about leaving with Rurik, then they died in 1070, not 1080. Everyone knew Rurik had been dead for 10 years at the time of the Foefire.

Ronin.7381:

Dustfinger.9510:

Prophetic statements about the future often work out differently than people expect. So the definition of the term ‘rightful king’ may not follow bloodline, legalism, etc. Or, the rules could ecompass multiple options. So the khan-Ur may be able to lift the curse as well as any decendant of Doric. As long as the necessity of wielding the sword is fulfilled.

There’s that too. Between the Grawl and the Charr, only the Charr seemed focused in getting Ascalon back.

Not to mention Adelbern gave the “finger” to intentionally thwart the Charr’s advance because were it not for this sorcery, the Charr would have reclaimed the lands they had centuries before claimed as their own.

Which ironically brings back into focus the whole “homeland” debate. GW2 ANet has already retconned that once by turning Ascalon into the ancestral homeland of the Charr, instead of up north where it used to be. This would certainly give credence to them being the “rightful” race to be there in their eyes. Now all we need is a Charr king apparently.

Still not sure why a pair of twin Orrian swords owned by Ascalon kings would have anything to do with the Charr though. At this point ANet could literally write in whomever they want as long as they had some minute, random reference to extrapolate on. The Forgotten, the Grawl, the Ogres…even the Dwarves. They’ve all called it home at one time or another.

Heck maybe Ogden will stroll into Ascalon, banish the ghosts, walk up to the Charr and Ascalons with a rifle in his hand and yell(in an Eastwood voice), “Get off my Lawn!”

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Well…to be fair it technically is an MMORPG, it’s a persistent ‘verse. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’d say the way to get us REALLY good games, is rather to convince the average Joe to start buying great games. The trick is to prove you have a great game for ’em.

It’s not an RPG it’s a space flight sim with some RPG elements. No one is doing it. The guy is absolutely famous because of previous games he’s designed for Origin. It’s like saying Learner and Lowe could get someone to invest in their musical. Hardly a standard situation.

It’s still an mmorpg, you’re playing a role in a persistent world. The space sim part is simply the platform its presented on.

At any rate, you’re missing the point. By accepting a “least common denominator” mentality for these games you’re indirectly supporting shallow development. Like I said, if you don’t want to support that kind of mentality, don’t play them anymore.

Only works if the bulk of people do the same thing, that’s my point.

Ummm…what? So W3 and sPvP in GW2 don’t count since they have low populations? I have no idea what you mean here.

If I don’t play any games and only wait for the one super uber best game ever to come out, I’ll not have any games.

Correct. And the gaming community would force studios to make better games because of it.

And which of my assumptions are subjective? o.O

DraconicDak.9340:

Or they’ve been paying more attention than you have…

It always amazes me when players have the audacity to proclaim they know more about the game than those who designed, built, and wrote it. In a week’s time, it will all make sense.

And it always amazes me that people assume those who designed, built, and especially wrote GW2 are the same as GW1.

Lern to research maybe? /shrug

Oh wait! I’ve got it!

That cinematic is a teaser! Rytlok tries to use Sohothin there thinking the same thing, but it doesn’t work! The Legions finally unite to wage all out war on the ghosts and elect a new Khan Ur! He drives into Ascalon City, plants the sword, and poof!…ghosts gone!

Because the Khan Ur is the rightful “king” of Ascalon. Get it? Amirite?!?

Called it.

Well we know what’s going down now, don’t we? HA, you just proved that, silly man!! Own it!

Oh and no, I mock them because they weren’t paying attention…to their own game.

You have to ask that?

Obviously, GW2 ANet thinks Barradin is the rightful king of Ascalon. It’s not my fault they don’t pay attention to their predecessor.

What piece? o.O

LOL!

Oh lordy it is in that room. Oh ANet, you really outdid yourself this time. I’ve seen them go back on GW1 stuff plenty of times, but this is the first time I’ve seen them do it on their GW2 stuff.

I stand corrected.

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

“According to legend, if either this sword or its sister returns to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the ghosts there will finally be laid to rest.”

What’s your point? Why is he in Barradin’s Crypt slamming Sohothin into the ground? Barradin’s Crypt is in Ascalon. That whole realm is Ascalon, the ruins of it.

Ascalon =/= Ascalon City. Good grief, you never played the original game did you? Barradin’s Estate is a good hike west of Ascalon City.

Lol, that’s not how the legend goes. Tell you what, I’ll go right now and check out that hallway in Barradin’s Crypt. In the meantime, you might want to read this GW2 wiki page about Rytlok’s/Rurik’s sword, Sohothin:

“According to legend, if either this sword or its sister returns to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the ghosts there will finally be laid to rest.”

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

You seem to think royalty = kingship in Ascalon, that’s not how it worked.

That’s like saying if Nedd was smart he wouldn’t have had his head chopped off. Of course that’s not how it turned out, there wouldn’t have been a plot in the first place. But if Barradin maintained his stance for being King, he would have been King. It’s that simple.

How do you know that cinematic is in Barradin’s Crypt? Did I miss that info somewhere?

Watch the cinematic. Go roll a Charr.

First, who is Nedd?

Second, you’re right Barradin could have forced his own kingship. And? That still doesn’t matter. You haven’t explained why that matters.

Third, how is that background in the cinematic clearly Barradin’s Crypt? Has it been stated by ANet that it is? If so, where?

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Yes, but how does that matter concerning the legend about an heir of Doric?? They are both of his lineage.

Clearly he’s not, the characters you quoted from, point that out. Down to succession, it should have been Barradin.

And then answer me why Rytlock is in Barradin’s Crypt and not AC?

Ummm…Adelbern is an heir of Doric.

You just quoted multiple characters who said he wasn’t a true successor despite their own support for the decision. By your logic the common street rat would have just as much right to be King and a rightful ruler: “All modern royalty in Tyria, including Kryta, are descendants of Doric himself.”

I have no idea why he’s in Barradin’s tomb. Why is he?

You tell me.

The curse of the Foefire says:

The Foefire ghosts will be put to rest when either Sohothin or Magdaer are returned to Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful King of Ascalon.

Why would Rytlock be in Barradin’s Crypt reciting the words: “Ascalon, I free you from this curse.” What other reasons would have him going there instead of Ascalon Catacombs?

Yes…a common street rat would have as much right to be king in Ascalon…as long as he was descended from Doric. You seem to think royalty = kingship in Ascalon, that’s not how it worked. That’s Kryta, and perhaps Orr who knows, but that wasn’t Ascalon.

How do you know that cinematic is in Barradin’s Crypt? Did I miss that info somewhere?

The first line of Adelbern’s wiki page lol: “Descended from the great King Doric…”

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Yes, but how does that matter concerning the legend about an heir of Doric?? They are both of his lineage.

Clearly he’s not, the characters you quoted from, point that out. Down to succession, it should have been Barradin.

And then answer me why Rytlock is in Barradin’s Crypt and not AC?

Ummm…Adelbern is an heir of Doric. That’s old news. Like I said, it’s not a single family line.

I have no idea why he’s in Barradin’s tomb. Why is he?

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Wanderer.3248:

Ronin.7381:

Barradin was the rightful king by blood, hence the whole marriage between Rurik and Althea in order to circumvent the blood dispute.

And who decided that noble blood makes you a rightful king? Was it by any chance, people who had noble blood?

In Ascalon, you only had to be a descendant of Doric to be considered for kingship. The royalty lines didn’t matter.

The system was more lax than real nobility lines. After all Barradin conceded himself willingly. But were it not for Adelberns high praise, Barradin would have been King by true succession.

And?

I fail to see how that matters. Especially when the old royalty was bringing Ascalon to ruin:

Devona: “It’s sad. These Royalist fools oppose King Adelbern because he was not born into nobility. They forget it was Adelbern who saved us from the Guild Wars and the old king, Grenth Be Just, who nearly brought Ascalon to ruin.”

I don’t see how royalty allowing Ascalon to crumble really matters. Ascalon gets destroyed by the Searing, the choice did nothing more than delay the inevitable and we see these effects in the current era.
“These Royalist fools oppose King Adelbern because he was not born into nobility.”

Bolded. The characters understood succession, the system was just more flexible than a traditional royal one. Traditional by real life standards or hell, Game of Thrones.

Yes, but how does that matter concerning the legend about an heir of Doric?? They are both of his lineage.

Ronin.7381:

Obsidian.1328:

Wanderer.3248:

Ronin.7381:

Barradin was the rightful king by blood, hence the whole marriage between Rurik and Althea in order to circumvent the blood dispute.

And who decided that noble blood makes you a rightful king? Was it by any chance, people who had noble blood?

In Ascalon, you only had to be a descendant of Doric to be considered for kingship. The royalty lines didn’t matter.

The system was more lax than real nobility lines. After all Barradin conceded himself willingly. But were it not for Adelberns high praise, Barradin would have been King by true succession.

And?

I fail to see how that matters. Especially when the old royalty was bringing Ascalon to ruin:

Devona: “It’s sad. These Royalist fools oppose King Adelbern because he was not born into nobility. They forget it was Adelbern who saved us from the Guild Wars and the old king, Grenth Be Just, who nearly brought Ascalon to ruin.”

Ronin.7381:

Little Tom practically explains it. Barradin chose not to rule but offered his daughter (his lineage) in marriage to Rurik as if applying a bandage. Adelbern was clearly a very capable king but he was not “rightful” by blood. It was via unanimous decision and not tradition. It made the whole crowning controversial in an interesting manner, but people voted for Adelbern, especially with Barradin’s consent, out of favor and not through blood.

All other accounts listed above Tom are people who just liked Adelbern more. They spoke of high praise, that would be like taking Game of Thrones for example and proclaiming Joffery as the rightful heir. We all know that by blood he was not a successor.

see above

Wanderer.3248:

Ronin.7381:

Barradin was the rightful king by blood, hence the whole marriage between Rurik and Althea in order to circumvent the blood dispute.

And who decided that noble blood makes you a rightful king? Was it by any chance, people who had noble blood?

In Ascalon, you only had to be a descendant of Doric to be considered for kingship. The royalty lines didn’t matter.

Ronin.7381:

Frosch.7809:

Adelbern was the rightful king of Ascalon, the people of Ascalon wanted him as their ruler over Duke Barradin.

That is incorrect. Being “voted” in doesn’t make you “rightful” when it comes to nobility. Ascalonians simply saw Adelbern as the more comfortable choice as a reward for his strength. Barradin was the rightful king by blood, hence the whole marriage between Rurik and Althea in order to circumvent the blood dispute. He simply wasn’t confident in his own capability to lead himself so he supported the citizens of Ascalon and their decision, using his daughter in an attempt to appease everything. Blood doesn’t care about decisions, one had the stronger connection to the throne than the other. The lesser of the two, Adelbern, was simply given “Pass Go”-card.

Odd then, these quotes from GW1:

• Farrah Cappo: “Not since King Doric himself has Ascalon had a finer king than Adelbern.”
• Grazden the Protector: “From what I have seen, King Adelbern is a man of great compassion. There will always be those malcontents who seek to blame every hardship in life on the current monarch. Many of the Royalists are merely misguided. In time, they will realize the error of their ways.”
• Kasha Blackblood: “Maybe you don’t remember how Ascalon was before Adelbern. The crown peddled influence to guilds for the slightest show of coin. Who would wish for a thing like that to return?”
• Little Thom: “It’s true the duke was next in line when the royal family was assassinated, but he fully supported the crowning of Adelbern. Wasn’t it the duke, after all, who appointed Adelbern commander of the army after the Battle of Rin?”

There are supposed to be a lot of descendants of Doric out there, it wasn’t a single or small family tree. Historically his descendants were supposed to have been trusted with guarding the Bloodstones, but that was never explored by the writers. There’s probably a lot of Ascalons and some Krytans with Doric blood in them still.

DraconicDak.9340:

Thalador, I’m pretty sure the next in line was Barradin’s older brother, about whom practically nothing is known. But the point stands, Adelbern was certainly not in the running to be King, until he was Caeser’d in, and Barradin was closer…

That’s not a good argument considering Barradin actually supported Adelbern as the king:

Duke Barradin: “It saddens me greatly to see people use my name and lineage to stir up trouble. Adelbern is a great king, and I see already in his son Rurik the markings of greatness. Disloyalty to Adelbern is nothing less than betrayal of Ascalon, but you were asking in a strictly theoretical sense, weren’t you?”

Everyone needs to keep in mind that Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are two different games. The narratives were not created by the same people. Whether you think that is important or not is up to you. Some things to think about:

Yes, the Charr were there before the Ascalons. But keep in mind the Charr didn’t even call the area Ascalon, it was named that by the humans. So realistically a Charr couldn’t be the rightful king of Ascalon since that name historically only refers to a human kingdom.

Magdaer and Sohothin were originally peace offerings from Orr, it’s wasn’t clear why or what “peace” they were meant for. At any rate, their “divine” nature is a recent phenomenom. Their purpose and function in this game isn’t necessarily tied to GW1 conventions.

One the flip side, our own moral compass shouldn’t hold sway in a fantasy setting. If the way of the world in a fictional narrative is slavery, genocide, murder, etc. then that is just right as rain for that setting. It’s not supposed to adhere to our own conventions of what is right and wrong. It exists in its own dimension, and our Earthen morality is irrelevant there.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Well…to be fair it technically is an MMORPG, it’s a persistent ‘verse. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’d say the way to get us REALLY good games, is rather to convince the average Joe to start buying great games. The trick is to prove you have a great game for ’em.

It’s not an RPG it’s a space flight sim with some RPG elements. No one is doing it. The guy is absolutely famous because of previous games he’s designed for Origin. It’s like saying Learner and Lowe could get someone to invest in their musical. Hardly a standard situation.

It’s still an mmorpg, you’re playing a role in a persistent world. The space sim part is simply the platform its presented on.

At any rate, you’re missing the point. By accepting a “least common denominator” mentality for these games you’re indirectly supporting shallow development. Like I said, if you don’t want to support that kind of mentality, don’t play them anymore.

Well…to be fair it technically is an MMORPG, it’s a persistent ‘verse. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’d say the way to get us REALLY good games, is rather to convince the average Joe to start buying great games. The trick is to prove you have a great game for ’em.

It doesn’t have to be that way. I mean look at Star Citizen. Robertson’s initial goal was what, 500k in crowdfunding? It’s now at about 50 million. And space sims aren’t exactly mainstream.

All I’m saying is there are ways around the “meta” for bankrolling these games. I have no idea if SC will be any good, but the amount of people willing to throw money at a game that doesn’t(seem to) cater to greedy investors should tell you something.

There’s always a choice, even if that choice is don’t play any of them.

Wanderer.3248:

Obsidian.1328:

The Eternal Alchemy is simply a way for the writers of GW2 to introduce a universal belief system into a multi-racial world of differing points of view.

It’s not a universal belief system. It’s an Asuran belief system. It’s no more universal than the Norn belief system.

Each race has its religion (if you count atheism). None of them are paramount.

Hey I agree lol. But I’m not the one writing it. The Eternal Alchemy just seems to play out in a universal way is all I’m saying.

Vayne.8563:

Because I live in Australia and the amount of people doing content when I was awake was limited. I had little choice but to accept the meta or never do end game instanced stuff. Not like you can take your heroes and do the Deep or Urgoz’s warren, or even the Underworld. You need a party. Finding one was really hard during off hours.5

Not to sound crass, but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason for accepting the meta. The point of GW was to do it with friends and/or guildies. It wasn’t ever meant to be a single-player experience, there’s other games for that. Nor was it meant to be a “meta” build game, although it kind of did turn into that. The blame was both with ANet’s skill creep, title hunting, and skin farming, and the community in general.

If a pseudo-MMO like GW didn’t have the population you needed to do content the way you needed to, then you have to find one that does. But dumbing down a game known for its higher learning curve and competitive pvp to better serve a casual player base is not the right answer. Just make a new game if you’re going to do that.

Xenon.4537:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Xenon.4537:

The design philosophy around the GW2 system vs the GW1 system was to lower the number of possible builds while simultaneously raising the number of viable builds. If you look back to GW1 and the popular builds used, there weren’t really all that many per class. Some had more than others.

Sure there were mathematically far more permutations, but an Echo Mending warrior is pretty terribad.

You must be talking about the GW pvp meta. PvE had tons of “viable” builds, if you could grasp playing outside the pvxwiki box.

Longbow Ranger is perfectly viable here. Bring one to a meta function.. and you will be shown the door based solely on weapon equipped.

Meta perception and actual viability in the big game are night and day. In any game.

Yes, I never got asked to leave a party because I wasn’t using the build of the month in PvE in Guild Wars 1…oh wait.

There were tons of players that required absolutely specific builds to participate in runs of almost all end game content, from voltaic spear farms, to the Underworld to DOA. Looking for an imbagon paragron. Looking for IWAY. These things existed. I ran into them all the time, because I enjoyed making my own builds.

Just a question here…

If you didn’t like the meta crowd in GW1, why did you bother trying to party with them?

Did any other types of party ever exist? IIRC it was either Meta or henchmen.

Then they added heroes and the game became single player…

How did I find non-meta parties all the time then? o.O

Granted it took some patience, and having a good guild helped. But it sure beat the rampant /ragequitting that came along with speed clears that took 2.9 secs longer than optimal. Those guys were kittens and I smiled inside every time they flipped out over a failed dungeon.

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Xenon.4537:

The design philosophy around the GW2 system vs the GW1 system was to lower the number of possible builds while simultaneously raising the number of viable builds. If you look back to GW1 and the popular builds used, there weren’t really all that many per class. Some had more than others.

Sure there were mathematically far more permutations, but an Echo Mending warrior is pretty terribad.

You must be talking about the GW pvp meta. PvE had tons of “viable” builds, if you could grasp playing outside the pvxwiki box.

Longbow Ranger is perfectly viable here. Bring one to a meta function.. and you will be shown the door based solely on weapon equipped.

Meta perception and actual viability in the big game are night and day. In any game.

Yes, I never got asked to leave a party because I wasn’t using the build of the month in PvE in Guild Wars 1…oh wait.

There were tons of players that required absolutely specific builds to participate in runs of almost all end game content, from voltaic spear farms, to the Underworld to DOA. Looking for an imbagon paragron. Looking for IWAY. These things existed. I ran into them all the time, because I enjoyed making my own builds.

Just a question here…

If you didn’t like the meta crowd in GW1, why did you bother trying to party with them?

The Eternal Alchemy is simply a way for the writers of GW2 to introduce a universal belief system into a multi-racial world of differing points of view. They saw the human god pantheon as too favored to humans, so went about the business of finding ways to minimize that view while promoting another, more inclusive, view.

As for why the Asuran’s seem to be the one’s that are the keepers of that new view is anyone’s guess, I suppose they had to pick one of them. Although, the characteristics of the Eternal Alchemy lend themselves to certain real-life science theories like the holism that Dustfinger proposes. And since Asura are all about math, it’s fairly academic that they should be the gatekeepers.

On a side note, did anyone else, while inside Omadd’s machine, think they were in an old Dr. Who episode? I couldn’t stop laughing…

Galen Grey.4709:

It really needs to be a balance too many options can be as bad as too few options.

I would disagree with that. Some here have said in this post that that the GW1 meta changed so fast that infrequent players found it hard to keep up. My question is, why do you need to use the meta? If you weren’t getting included in dungeon runs(for example) because you weren’t using the latest flavor or the month build, then don’t run with that group. It was a combination of titles, lazy players, and new uber skills that led to GW1 speed runs, not because of having too many skill to choose from. The areas were meant to take hours to finish, not minutes. Heroes were an attempt to fix that, but they brought their own issues to the game: i.e. the core game mechanics were never meant for highly customizable npc’s.

Thing is there is an entire spectrum of players. All here (in this thread) probably agree Gw2 is way too easy and could use a bump in difficult yet its important to point out that one of the major criticism that probably led to the mega server was people and quite a number of them complaining they’re unable to complete events in mid level maps because they’re not finding people to do them with. Now dynamic events are undoubtedly the easiest content in this game yet some find them too hard to solo. We’re not even talking 1 or 2 people but quite a large number of posts.

That sounds more like a problem with scaling.