Quitting because of spirit weapons? Even I find this shallow and tomes and SW was the only reason I made and mained a guardian (and still do).
Anyway, during the last pvp Dev AMA, they said SW are one of the 4-5 skill types they want to improve, along with mantras, and a couple more I can’t remember.
That is astounding, and it only took them what, 3-4 years to figure it out after people had been telling them for years that those utilities were utterly worthless and that we needed something else.
It was mathematically proven that SW were bad, and they just… Said nothing.. For years.. Why would I want to continue playing when I know that it will take them forever to fix these commonly talked about issues?
Yea even this information won’t make me go back to the game. I’d guess that it will probably take another.. 6 months for any progress to be made what they said about SW
I suppose I’m shallow for thinking that when a gaming companies fans let them know that something doesn’t work, or is actually statistically bad for 4 years and they do nothing that I’m supposed to just go along with that
Actually, what you describe isn’t exceptional at all. It’s not statistically bad for something like this to exist for 4 years. It’s not statistically bad for something like this to exist for an entire game lifetime. It’s simply actually; SW’s aren’t a priority to adjust, just because they aren’t the optimal set of skills. I think that’s a pretty garbage reason to look at them considering we have lots of other good skills we can rely upon.
Anyways, I’m not sure where your expectations come from but if you think that somehow Anet devs are unique in how they handle this stuff, it would be incorrect.
So the game is plagued by casuals who want to downgrade this game to a fashion contest. This actually quiet sad.
Actaully, the game was never more than this to begin with so to be fair, that’s not a downgrade at all. If anything Anet has stuck to their guns here and the game is better for it. If you want gear progression there is literally EVERY other game out there for that.
The best progression, in my opinion, is the player getting better at the game, not adding yet more powerful gear as a crutch to make the game easier.
better @game can be tranlated as buy expansions “to get good” lol…..
Power creep in expansions can be a problem IMO.
that is how this game evolve… and that is what the class progressions system is, to make players feel necessity to buys the expansion, its not mechanics of the game and game improvements that makes people busy the expansion.
game with 4 years and feels like it doesnt have nothing new….
No, you do not need gear progression to keep the game interesting and new. That literally makes no sense. If you are fooled into believing that +10 stat gear feels new and interesting over +8 stat gear, then I don’t even understand why you even play MMO’s in the first place.
Furthermore, after 4+ years, no one in this game should be expecting gear progression … or want it.
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Certainly … if someone thinks 100G is some unsurmountable amount to earn, they should just find a different game. Don’t worry though … when they realize that GW2 is actually pretty reasonable for earning stuff, their tune will change. If not, they made the right decision. These people should not be attacked for thinking 100G is too much; they should be encouraged to go out and gain some broader experience with other games to have a good base for what real grind is.
I don’t care what people want to call them … but I’m thankful they don’t sit in my inventory anymore, I know that much.
I think it’s a little much, but I get it. For some reason, some legendaries take a whimical, comical route. Not exactly the image I see for any of my characters at least.
Nobody cares about class rankings or performance in solo play because well, it’s solo play.
Sorry, you can’t say that; now you’re just being obtuse. People care and based on the tone of the OP’s question, he does as well. Just because it’s trivial to you, doesn’t mean people don’t care about their performance in open world. That’s just ridiculous.
The sad part is that you think not acknowledging Rev’s capabilities in OW PVE will help with your Rev Hate Campaign. I can assure you that Anet considers ALL aspects of the game when considering balance. I would advise that if you want to be a more informed campaginer and be more influential with your complaints, you open your mind up a little more about Rev’s performance outside of engineered teams for raids fractals as much as you do inside them.
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No, that’s not a blanket statement … there is a clear ranking of class performance in OW PVE, just like there is for raids, etc… you can not build every class to be equally effective in OW PVE. That’s just as ignorant as someone saying every class can be built to be effective in high end fractals or raids …. I’m pretty sure we can agree on at least that much.
THIS is why I’m hammering on you … you are offering untrue information to the OP based on something you already admit you don’t care (and likely don’t know) enough about.
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I don’t follow: What are you stacking? Stacking with minions out is like herding cats … it doesn’t work because the mobs don’t follow you, they aggro your minions and stick to them.
Anyways, if you are in any armor but offensive for PVE, you’re doing it wrong. I can’t recommend trailblazers … nothing you encounter using ranged condi and minions should require you to invest in any defensive stats whatsoever if you are playing well enough.
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I have not mentioned how revs do in OW because I just don’t care about OW.
So basically, you are just pushing answers you want. I mean, I never once saw you say “Oh, but I don’t know OW PVE, so you will have to take these other guys word for it”. You simply dismissed it as irrelevant with “You can do what you want” which had nothing to do with how Rev’s perform in PVE to make it sound like Revs are just bad, period.
Well I got news for you. IF you decide to try Revs in OW PVE, you will find them very effective in that role. So perhaps the next time someone asks about it and clearly you don’t care, you can answer with “I heard they are pretty good, but I don’t have any experience with it”, instead of broadly painting the whole class as poor because “meta”.
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I don’t think the ‘ask’ for alternatives makes sense. This has been discussed ad infinitum already. If the best reason you can give for an alternative method is “because don’t want to do something”, then why would it make sense for Anet to offer another alternative to get it that doesn’t guarantee they won’t get the same reason?
In otherwords, if people simply don’t want to do one specific thing #1 to get an item, why would Anet make that item available with any other specific thing knowing they will get the same complaint? That’s assuming (reasonably) the game doesn’t cater to everyone’s exact whim. That’s simply a problem they can’t solve.
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I beg to differ on people that don’t think Minions don’t compliment condition damage:
I’m sure that’s nothing new here but I can’t think of a better way to combine minions that tank for you, bounce aggro between themselves and give you some good utility, keeping you safe from the fight … and a weapon that applies lots of conditions at ranged with garbage direct damage that is optimal when you aren’t in melee range. Unless I’m mistaken, minion damage is also based off your condition damage stat? Seems like a perfectly natural combination of traits and skills if you ask me.
That being said, it’s not a build that gives you FAST kills; it’s specifically for easy HOT HP’s and it does that with a minimum of mechanics and skill. It’s a very simply played build.
Also, to be frank, I think Vipers is questionable if you are using a Scepter because the direct damage is so crap on a scepter that power as a main stat is pretty wasteful. I know that generally you get more damage from the duration increase but really, you have no shortage of condition duration without Vipers to begin with.
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Yes, and you aren’t being truthful here because Rev performance in solo PVE and non-engineered team environments is pretty good; ‘Anything works’ in OW PVE is not a sensible answer to the question of how Revs perform there, so I don’t get why you keep saying it like it closes the question. It’s a nonsense answer. I’m not saying it’s not true, it’s simply not answering the question and I think you’re doing it to skirt the question. Why? because acknowledging Rev is good at something isn’t part of the Rev hate agenda.
I get that’s it’s better for you to complain about Revs if you don’t care to acknowledge where they are good, but that’s not an honest or objective approach to what the OP is asking. I guess you just conveniently decided to not mention those areas so you could complain about Revs performance ranking in optimized team play.
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So you’re making the decision to lie to him about how good REv is in OW PVE and non-engineered fractal teams to shelter him from the negative opinions he will experience in the future from meta pushers in high end fractals … that’s awesome. Pretty sure people don’t want to be lied to just because other people think they are delicate snowflakes. Personally, I don’t believe that’s your motive but whatever.
I mean, the OP didn’t ask you what classes were better than Rev for content he didn’t ask about. He was pretty specific. I get you have an axe to grind because you felt you wasted your time with Rev … but I think that’s dirty play to to answer someone falsely because of it. I would like to think at a minimum, being honest when answering people’s questions is simply a given.
Revenant is very good for OW PVE; the only element they really suffer from is easy fight closure so they aren’t saddled with longterm conditions slowing them down. Otherwise, they have great damage, the RS buff and the good opening moves needed for OW goodness.
There is nothing wrong with letting him know ’what’s up’ with the class, but lying to him about how Revs perform in OW PVE isn’t the way to do it now is it?
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This is truly one of the most odd reasons not to play a game.
I have to say that when i see people not play for such shallow reasons, that even if shallow reason #1 was fixed, they are just the next shallow reason away from leaving. I mean, Anet doesn’t communicate balance changes? Um, they have communicated EVERY single balance change they have ever made to us. Not sure what the OP is looking for.
tl;dr proponents of a change to supply or demand or leather undermine their suggestion by appealing to economics. I believe ANet would be more concerned if more people point out that it’s demoralizing to them.
Here’s my economic appeal: “Can I get a refund on the gems I spent for two character slots that I’m never going to use because I won’t be able to afford to craft the armor for a thief and engineer?”
That’s not true though … anyone can earn gold in this game to buy stuff. It’s simply your choice to not spend it on what you need to craft med armors. I’m not sure that a choice you make warrants a refund on gems you spent.
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Metas are facts when they are backed up by extensive testing, numbers, and hard evidence such as recorded footage.
… that aren’t relevant to Solo PVE or fractals outside of engineered team compositions; the things the OP was asking about.
I can’t stand to watch people abuse others with meta for elements of the game where it’s completely irrelevant. If the OP was asking if Rev’s were any good for Raids or optimized teams for fractals, then SURE … spouting meta rhetoric to say Rev isn’t that good there would be met with no problem. That’s not the case here.
No one is denying rev can be used for solo pve. You can use anything for solo pve.
Again, that’s not what the OP is asking for … I can also use anything for dungeons, fractals, raids, etc…. but I don’t see anyone providing that advice to players either. I get that many people have contempt for anyone that wants to talk about OW because it’s trivial, but make no mistake, I can STILL optimize a build for it, just like anything else. That’s valuable information. If you are of the opinion that Revenant isn’t good for OW content, I doubt you have put any thought into to beyond someone handing you the meta build … See how that works?
Why is it a problem to simply provide a knowledgeable information related to the ask? I mean, meta should have never even come up based on what the OP wanted to know. If you don’t know if Rev is good in OW content … why are you posting other than to garner more “Rev hate cred” in the hopes devs tune in? Not happening.
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Metas are facts when they are backed up by extensive testing, numbers, and hard evidence such as recorded footage.
… that aren’t relevant to Solo PVE or fractals outside of engineered team compositions; the things the OP was asking about.
I can’t stand to watch people abuse others with meta for elements of the game where it’s completely irrelevant. If the OP was asking if Rev’s were any good for optimized Raids compositions, then SURE … spouting meta rhetoric to say Rev isn’t that good there would be met with no problem. That’s not the case here.
And just to be clear on the history … metas were NOT extensively tested at all; it was some dude estimating damage in a spreadsheet, then claiming that the spreadsheet was some ultimate approach in calculating ingame damage … completely ignoring the fact that ingame damage was a measurable quantity.
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They are still in game and haven’t been changed since 2015.
thanks for the info, such a kitten shame really. Hearing things like this makes me remember why I stopped playing in the 1st place. A complete lack of communication in regards to balance updates and such.
Always thought spirit weapons were the most interesting concept for the guardian, it’s too bad that Anet refused to listen to the general consensus that SW are bad and need to be removed or changed drastically for over 2+ years
Looks like i won’t be returning any time soon then, rip my sylvari guardian
There was no lack of communication with balance updates here. Anet told us they were changing them and they did that. I get you don’t like certain things about the game, but don’t make up some BS to justify you not playing it.
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I hate to be misunderstood here but I don’t get where you are going with this … it seems you are agreeing with me so I will simply leave it at that.
I mean, there are some minor issues with your post; most condis do NOT come from Epi because because Epi isn’t a SOURCE of conditions, it simply multiplies conditions that exist on a target; you still have to put the conditions on your target somehow. That is a meaningful difference.
As for a perma poison … you have it on scepter, as well as torment.
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I’m not going to assuming them acting was based on subjective complaints … I’m not sitting in their office listen to their conversations and seeing what they read. I’m saying people complained and they did made a change. Was that a subjective complaint that spurred that? I don’t know.
The funny part is that the solution they implemented for this actually doesn’t address the subjective complaints that people had and still have about the price of leather … so take that for what it’s worth about how much Anet values the subjective opinions of players. Frankly, I think VERY few people that complain actually recognize the root cause of the problems they think they have. Why does no one complain about 2s elder wood? Considering how much you need for a legendary, that can cost you tons … probably because you can farm it and it would be unreasonable to complain about it. I dont’ see the difference here. Now people can farm leather, the complaint makes no sense because you get it with time and not just gold now. Those are the two currencies in any MMO; Anet knows that, so do reaosnable players.
I don’t think it takes much to recognize that someone saying something is too expensive has almost no value as a problem statement when it comes to market forces. Anet’s goal isn’t to give people cheap mats; it’s to have a working economy. I don’t need to work there to see that.
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I didn’t claim they didn’t do something here … that would be rather stupid considering it’s obvious they did. It’s unreasonable on lots of levels. Maybe it doesn’t occur to you it simply doesn’t need to be tweaked. I mean, if you can’t really justify why it should be, other than a few opinions, then why would they? There is a business element you aren’t considering of how they should be using their people to do important things.
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I don’t get your point. I don’t see the connection between Anet not adjusting difficulty and the opinions people have on it … and what we are talking about here with people finding pricing for hardened leather.
If it’s not a problem, why would Anet bother fixing it? People’s subjective opinion about some topic does not turn that topic into something Anet should fix. Frankly, Anet has already done what was needed. People complained about leather, Anet realized it was unfair to hold people hostage through the TP, so they added this. If your point is that Anet should do something … well, they did.
And yes, you shouldn’t be pulling out experience here in this case … Anet implemented a fix for what they recognized is a deficiency in leather supply. I don’t need to guess to speak with authority; you can ignore the fact that Anet has already explained this all to us if you like. I don’t. You make it sound like Anet ignores players when the reality is that players complained here and they acted with a solution.
I don’t think you seem to understand the relationship between players and Anet here. They do listen and if they feel there is something there, they DO act. At BEST, you can only provide more of your subjective opinion that you dislike the result. You see, I’m pretty convinced this is a great example of how unreasonable players actually are because Anet did hear the complaint and act on it … but still people complain. /shrug.
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I think these are misleading statements here. the claim that Revs are much less wanted and needed when other classes do better is only relevant if you team with a PUG that has unreasonable expectations of performing like an engineered team, which is not what PUGs are about to begin with. PUG’s carry more risk ALWAYS, so the idea that just because someone is taking a meta class into one is lessening their risk somehow is ridiculous to begin with.
If you want to make statements relevant to engineered team compositions, then be clear about it but that’s certainly NOT the situation that sounds relevant to the OP. If he wanted to team with friends who knew, he would ask them what class he should play. Frankly, I think anyone that discourages someone from playing a class because of a limited situation is a detriment to the game.
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I’m running with this : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0At0gN2AebCs3glpBTaAUACATtsLwHI+DWCfhA-TxRBABA8AAwTXwCHBAKV/xMlgXt/o8jiLBAA-e
going balls deep everytime without dying ^^
Kill that build with fire and bury it. It’s terrible.
whats wrong with necros lazy and easy mode for open pve farming . o0
I don’t think it’s that the build is lazy and easy. It’s just not that good. A few things I can see not well done:
1. You’re killing OW trash with a GS and none of the few damage multipliers necros have.
2. You’re traited in minions deep … but only using one permanent minion?
3. You’re slow because you didn’t trait RS signet or use daggers with RS trait
4. You have a trait that needs 4 stacks of bleed to work .. but you only make 2 with Staff
5. Back to #4 .. you’re missing lots of trait synergies … how come you didn’t trait Deathly chill to work with Blood Bond?
6. You have Sigil of Strength, not the best Sigil you could have.If you wanted lazy and easy, You would just go full minion with Axe/Dagger … Death, Spite, Blood. Game AI is not good so minions will always tank and you can hang back and AA all you like with the runspeed to get you around fast. Make no mistake though … boring. It’s also not really what the OP asked for; it’s certainly not the best for soloing or being fast.
Why minion deep? Got two tho. In build I did a mistake while making it. I am using blood fiend insted of CC. My bad. They are perfect agro. Backing up perma minions with rise. So kittens = 5 minions = more toughnes, more cleanse/transfer and reduced dmg. And thtat is why Augury of Death is used. To reduce recharg.
mark of blood + SoS = activating BB if needed (mainly for champs). So no need for DC so i went for more ferocity and attack speed while in shroud. And extra power from SoS comes in handy out of the shroud . Ofc for faster travel I switch to locust.
Since i’m doing clasical AOE farm, I need a weapon which hits more targets. Dagger have only 2 targets on hit while GS have 3 on auto attack and DS, rest have 5. And dmg with Gravedigger is usefull when u do +- 10k dmg on 5 mobs. And more targets = more heals + gravediggers health steal.Staff is good for kiting when minions are on cooldown.
Why minion deep? Well, you devoted a whole line and three traits in it for minions … In fact, I think those are ALL the traits you can select for minions. So yup, minion deep.
I mean, I get you think your choices are good. What I’m saying is that there isn’t anything optimal there, like what the OP actually asked for. For example, Staff is good for kiting? Please tell us what kind of optimal build needs to kite anything in open world content? I don’t see the need, yet it’s your reason for selecting Staff. Kiting anything is not-optimal.
I think you would do much better to take the advice you’re being given here and consider making changes to reflect that. You will perform much better if your goal is to do that. Just because you’re doing AOE easy without a sweat, dying or running around is not indicative of a optimal or a good build. AOE farm = garbage damage, especially when your encountering single trash mobs; not an uncommon occurrence in OW PVE>
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Yeah actually, those customer complaints are completely invalid exactly for that reason. It’s simply biased subjective opinion. I can complain I don’t get 6 cup holders in my car too … should Toyota get right on that ‘problem’? If you can’t separate a complaint from what is a real problem that Anet should fix, then I don’t see how you’re being reasonable her.e
I don’t care what company you work for, your consumer complaints have to also be objective. “Leather is too expensive” is not an objective statement, so it’s not a reasonable complaint. I shouldn’t have to explain the difference between what is and isn’t a reasonable complaint; someone’s subjective opinion about leather prices doesn’t really fall into something that a complaint category that would be associated with something wrong with the way the game works.
I don’t need to speak on behalf of Anet to know what is a reasonable way to approach them … in fact they tell us how. Also, anyone that’s played enough MMO’s knows how this works too; you can see it, as long as you’re not making assumptions for why devs change things …. like when people assume Anet put in leather farm because ‘prices’.
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Again, I don’t see where this is going. The bottomline is that while it’s nice to have some academic discussions, it’s not being done without a fundamental purpose of trying to change the game. That’s not going to happen simply because people have opinions about things; it’s not a vote and it’s not a popularity contest; change happens because something doesn’t work the way Anet wants it to. If players want changes, they have to make sensible arguments about why that change needs to happen.
I’ve outlined the reasons I see from ingame why this will not change. I think if people understand what Anet was doing (it’s not hard, they told us), then all this attempt to find academic reasons to change it melt away because frankly, they aren’t worth considering if the game is working as normal. It’s not an economic experiment to test someone’s PhD theory … it’s a game that has practical implications to it’s players.
I guess if you want to wax academic, I will just let you do so at this point. I see no value in it.
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There is no dismissing here. You think you need to ask people if the leather farm potential is reasonable, just to observe different perspectives? I think that’s … interesting. I can tell you right now without asking anyone that if you have been paying attention to the forums on this topic, you have all the perspectives you need without asking for them.
Specifics though. Context. If someone tells you that they want to make ascended armor for all 60 of their alts, then are you’re going to pretend that’s a typical case with a straight face?
The point of the lather farm is not to gather a CERTAIN amount of material in a CERTAIN amount of time. That depends COMPLETELY on the individual and the situation of the map. There are no set minimums. It makes no sense to tell someone if the leather farm is ‘worth it’ or not … depends on the person doing it. Again, you’re trying to create an objective measure with subjective opinions? That makes no sense.
So are you really going to argue that some farms in this game are not more effective than others for certain purposes and it’s only a matter of opinion? That people don’t go do meta events like Auric Basin and don’t just run around killing Moas in Queensdale for things? Is that the kind of advice you should offer to a random player, instead of pointing out known options and then letting subjectivity enter?
And they’re not just subjective opinions. They’re actual experiences of people that play the game in practice, you know something actually concrete, which is a lot more than a lot of hot air and theory.
And no, not everything is completely subjective because there are only so many things that requires hardened leather. That narrows the goal down by default. You can imagine all you want, but 29 hardened leather isn’t going to make you an insignia. You need 30.
Drop rates are objective. Material requirements are objectives. Rate of acquisition can be objective with variance. The analysis of all this is the subjective part.
Honestly, you lost me here a bit because there are few facts that I think are being ignored here to complain about these things:
1. An area where people can focus on farming leather was introduced for EXACTLY that reason; to give people that choice. It’s got nothing to do with Anet trying to control price or the market or whatever other ideas people have.
2. The rates that things drop there have little to do with anything ingame. In otherwords, I can’t see anything that convinces me that Anet determined the rates based on recipes or how long it would take for this or that to happen. They made a place, they applied some drop rate and called it day.
3. None of this is right or wrong; Just like anything else in this game. It’s not worked out to the last little detail based on what Johnny thinks or Sally wants. It’s not meant to satisfy anyone’s idea about what a ‘good’ amount of leather is for farming. It’s just there if you want to do it.
This is the list of things that makes me think there isn’t a problem here:
1. There is no ‘too expensive’ for a mat, ESPECIALLY when you have the choice to farm or craft mats in a focused manner. The price, and all these activities are intimately related and can’t be separated.
2. There is always a some people happy and some people unhappy. Therefore, that’s not a argument for change, ever.
3. The market is working and as intended. There is buying and selling of these mats every day.
And no, I don’t think it’s appropriate to give a new player my biased advice, simply because I don’t know what their threshold is, or how reasonable they are, or what they consider ‘too expensive’ or ‘too hard’ to do. That’s way overstepping and it’s a bad practice. Simply present the facts you know … they can decide from there.
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I’m running with this : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0At0gN2AebCs3glpBTaAUACATtsLwHI+DWCfhA-TxRBABA8AAwTXwCHBAKV/xMlgXt/o8jiLBAA-e
going balls deep everytime without dying ^^
Kill that build with fire and bury it. It’s terrible.
whats wrong with necros lazy and easy mode for open pve farming . o0
I don’t think it’s that the build is lazy and easy. It’s just not that good. A few things I can see not well done:
1. You’re killing OW trash with a GS and none of the few damage multipliers necros have.
2. You’re traited in minions deep … but only using one permanent minion?
3. You’re slow because you didn’t trait RS signet or use daggers with RS trait
4. You have a trait that needs 4 stacks of bleed to work .. but you only make 2 with Staff
5. Back to #4 .. you’re missing lots of trait synergies … how come you didn’t trait Deathly chill to work with Blood Bond?
6. You have Sigil of Strength, not the best Sigil you could have.
If you wanted lazy and easy, You would just go full minion with Axe/Dagger … Death, Spite, Blood. Game AI is not good so minions will always tank and you can hang back and AA all you like with the runspeed to get you around fast. Make no mistake though … boring. It’s also not really what the OP asked for; it’s certainly not the best for soloing or being fast.
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There is no dismissing here. You think you need to ask people if the leather farm potential is reasonable, just to observe different perspectives? I think that’s … interesting. I can tell you right now without asking anyone that if you have been paying attention to the forums on this topic, you have all the perspectives you need without asking for them.
The point of the lather farm is not to gather a CERTAIN amount of material in a CERTAIN amount of time. That depends COMPLETELY on the individual and the situation of the map. There are no set minimums. It makes no sense to tell someone if the leather farm is ‘worth it’ or not … depends on the person doing it. Again, you’re trying to create an objective measure with subjective opinions? That makes no sense.
Well, I don’t get what you’re trying to do here …. if you already acknowledge it’s not good for everyone, then what’s the point of baiting people into accusing them of make strawmans or asking their (irrelevant) opinion about how acceptable it takes to farm something? Do you have a point at all?
You’re saying someone’s opinion is a valid point to ask, assumingly to make some point … but you haven’t said how or why.
OK … say you’re asking me if it takes a year to get 10 hardened leather squares from the farm? No I don’t think it does.
No, I am saying it is a valid question to ask, even if the answer may vary from person to person.
I brought up 10 in a year to show that most people would not find it adrquate. So despite it being subjective there comes a point where it doesn’t help anyone.
A realistic scenario would be to ask how long it would take to gather the 180 needed for a set of armor.
It’s not relevant if some people find the rate of leather you get from the farm adequate. I mean, the very fact that this is subjective is exactly what it’s not a relevant question … Anet can’t reasonably choose a rate of leather drop that EVERYONE will find adequate. That’s just ridiculous. There is no objective way to kitten if the farm is successful … if you’re using subjective ways to measure it.
Do you find 9 hours acceptable, solely for the leather?
Does anyone here actually have a point of reference for this? How long did it take to get 180 through farming prior to Doric Lake? How does this question even matter?
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OK … say you’re asking me if it takes a year to get 10 hardened leather squares from the farm? No I don’t think it does.
Does the leather farm actually generate enough hardened leather?
I don’t understand how that’s a valid question … what is ‘enough’?
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Anet has done exactly the correct thing here; allow players to take more control of the market by introducing more bandwidth to farm. The market will dictate the price all goods in it; it’s completely self-regulating.
Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself here. ArenaNet acted deliberately to control the market by adding more hardened leather to the economy (Centaur farm in Lake Doric for example). That is the opposite of “it’s completely self-regulating”. It is not self-regulating if the world’s god feels the need to intervene in the economy. That’s like saying the French agriculture economy is self-regulating while recognising that it is heavily subsidized by the government.
I think ArenaNet is doing a good job balancing the economy btw, in most games, it’s too easy to get currency, and that’s no fun either.
Um, no, that’s a misunderstanding on you’re part …. The market is completely self-regulating because players are responsible for posting and buying mats from it. Anet did not ‘deliberately try to control’ any market. They simply introduced a more focused way to get mats that didn’t exist because they thought the old situation was unfair. Again, up to players to decide if those mats make it to the TP.
^^ Wait a minute … so the Rev boons you can get are made redundant by a small group of other classes? Um, I think it’s more like the other way around?
Anyways, let’s not get off the topic … the OP is talking about SOLO PVE and FRACTALS … so when you make arguments that Rev isn’t good for those things because of class redundancy in raids and weak condi build performance … that just doesn’t make sense.
See the biggest problem here is that Rev IS pretty good for somethings; solo PVE happens to be one of them, but people’s objective sense of that is clouded by their own bias of certain game mode performance.
There is nothing misleading here if you simply take the market for face value; a place where people buy and sell mats. Does it really matter what Chris says if you don’t believe him anyways? Why is it an absolute must that we look at why players hoard MC’s? Does this conclusion change the fact that the market is working as intended?
The message I take from Chris is that hoarding isn’t discouraged, or at least Anet is in no hurry to do anything about it; simply another affirmation that players control the market.
So why even have chill as a condi dmg for a mostly seemingly power dmg elite spec? At what point should the scy hit not as hard as the bleeds from the chill?
Because they didn’t want to leave a entire playstyle in the dust?
Condi necro not going away and the core classes should be on part with the elite spec but they need to be real specialization not simply the same thing +1 something Anet messed up big time with this set of specializations.
There is a big difference between how condi Reaper and condi necro play … and both are very close to each other in damage. That’s a big win IMO. Apparently, variety isn’t a think in your playbook? That’s unfortunate … most people LIKE choice.
Regardless, anyone that thinks there is something exceptional about Necro condi is being very choosy … there are more effective condi builds out there; if the argument is that Necro condi needs a nerf … it shouldn’t be the first condi build that Anet looks at for nerfs.
That IS the chose you play necro core and get more condi dmg and be more of a mages or you play the specialization reaper and be more of a melee power dmg class. Have ppl forgotten what the world specialization means?
Maybe I don’t understand what your question means then. You said the elites needs “to be real specialization not simply the same thing +1 something Anet messed up big time with this set of specializations”
…. but Reaper elite spec is not the same thing as the core on this class, even for the SAME kind of damage build. The Reaper condi plays completely different than the core Necro condi build. It IS different. Perhaps you were just stating the obvious?
actually there are market failures, where things arent performing according to supply and demand.
OK, but that isn’t the case here. People buy and sell MC’s and hardened leather so obvious there is supply and demand happening. Again, you’re going to dig deep into some economic theory; I don’t see how that’s relevant. The TP is there to allow people to sell and buy mats … and people have proven every day they are willing to do that. It’s what is relevant here. Are you honestly telling me that if you think you can prove the market for these mats is a failure, that will demand Anet take action to fix it, even though anyone can still buy and sell mats in the TP? I think you must be kidding! If there is are equilibrium points for these mats, how can you even being to claim the market fails for them? That makes no sense.
Don’t beat around the bush … you simply want cheaper mats and you think you’re going to con Anet into doing so with hints of market failure? This only gets better from here I think.
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Why is it even necessary to entice players to sell them, hoarding or not? Why is it always Anet’s job to ensure players get MC coins at the rate players see fit at the price they want to pay? That’s not how it works. I would hope an Economics major could get that.
its a designed economy, so it kind of is their focus. If they were laissez faire as you suggest, they would never have hired an economics guy.
anet may choose to change it or not, but its still of interest to economy focused people because its one of the issues they deal with in designing and analyzing an economy.
note, he says IF they want to change the behavior, he knows that maybe they dont want to.
basically, while this may bore you, economy focused people would probably find it interesting
That doesn’t make sense … designed economy does NOT mean players should get what they want, at the prices they want in the volumes they want. It has nothing to do with boring … it has everything to do with sensible.
the boring comment was me explaining why an economics dude would want to talk about it.
the fact that the economy is designed means that player satisfcation matters to the economy.
Again … the goal here of the economy is not 100% player satisfaction … it’s simply mats available to players at market prices.
no one said its 100% player satisfaction?
Then why do you bring it up the idea that a designed economy means customer satisfaction if you understand that not all players can be satisfied in the first place? That’s a non-starter of an argument. I guess you just flip flop for whatever suits your position?
The fact is simple. The economy isn’t designed to make everyone happy. Furthermore, if someone doesn’t like the price because it’s expensive and that makes them unhappy, you can be assured that sellers are as happy that people are buying at that price as well … so you can drop the nonsensical ‘dissatisfaction’ ploy as a reason for Anet to do something here.
The goal should be an unsatisfied player base because that is what makes the most money for Anet and NCSoft! Good idea!
You haven’t made any attempt to understand me here if that’s what you think I’m saying. Frankly, you are delusional if you think that Anet can fix the game to make every single person satisfied with it. That’s just completely unrealistic.
The question isn’t what to do if people are dissatisfied with something. The question is if it’s worth doing something about it in the first place. I don’t see anyone really justifying this other than “because I want stuff”. Everyone just comes in guns blazing with sensationalized ideas to ‘prove’ it’s the next big problem that needs to be fixed … well get in line because there are hundreds of those next big ideas.
I think lots of people attempt to look at the economic theory here to come to some conclusions about it’s good, it’s bad, it’s whatever they want it to be ….
The practical reality is that all mats on the TP are simply and naturally determined by very simply concepts of what people are willing to do. The market prices and volumes are just testament to the FACT that on average, what you see happening is representative of what the population of players is willing to sell or pay for a given mat. Any concept of absolute value “What a mat SHOULD be” is really just nonsensical. We already know what it should be, because the market tells you that.
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You’re putting the cart before the horse. It’s irrelevant what some players follow, even if it’s religiously. If the game isn’t designed for it, it makes no sense to justify changes with it. The people that follow meta like a religion… can ensure they team with each other. There is no reason to adjust the game to appease a group of players that restrict themselves in artificial ways exclusively … just to allow them to continue their exclusive approach to teaming.
Whatever balance that is justified because of an exclusive teaming approach has no place in a game where team solutions should be inclusive. This is why ‘fixing’ balance to break down the meta team comp makes no sense. It’s not a balance problem. It’s a gameplay optimization problem.
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OK maybe that’s true … but that still doesn’t seem like a good reason for Anet to make exceptional attempts to achieve that when raids don’t require a specific composition to win. It’s fun when people attempt to justify their great ideas with majority rules and meta arguments, but I just don’t see how that’s ever relevant when the game isn’t designed around meta and majority rules concepts.
I don’t really get the suggestion … we are not even close to elite specs ‘diluting’ the class because of non-unique weapon choices. I don’t get that argument … the weapon skills on each class are already unique, so it’s irrelevant how many classes share a particular weapon. And I also disagree that most classes have a good weapon selection to being with. I think quite a few suffer from a small choice.
I’m not saying Anet NEEDS to have a new weapon for each elite spec, but frankly, I can’t see why they wouldn’t or why it would be bad for the game. Classes already share from a core group of weapons … but somehow adding more elite specs with new weapon choices makes sharing from the core a bad thing? I don’t see it.
Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?
Actually most people think its not balanced that you need to bring 2 each of wars, druids and chronos to share their buffs with the entire party. So that’s one area that Anet could tackle that would make everyone happy.
I didn’t say it was balanced … My point is that if people can’t agree, then how do you think Anet can possibly make everyone happy? Unless Anet starts making things on professions different in name only, the differences will continue to result in what we see here. The problem has nothing to do with classes not being good. it has everything to do with people thinking they can ONLY do with the best compositions and builds.
Tackling this problem wouldn’t actually make everyone happy or even be reasonably possible to do in the first place. Player perceptions do not change with Anet.
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Being most valuable to a group doesn’t indicate inbalance though … it’s expected in a game where certain combinations compliment each other. If that didn’t exist, then there would be a serious and flawed concept for grouping. Also, group content is a small part of 1 of 3 game elements. If you definition of class balance doesn’t include those other parts, you aren’t being objective. If your argument is that classes are not balanced because of some fraction of game content that favours specific ones, then you have a faulty argument.
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So why even have chill as a condi dmg for a mostly seemingly power dmg elite spec? At what point should the scy hit not as hard as the bleeds from the chill?
Because they didn’t want to leave a entire playstyle in the dust?
Condi necro not going away and the core classes should be on part with the elite spec but they need to be real specialization not simply the same thing +1 something Anet messed up big time with this set of specializations.
There is a big difference between how condi Reaper and condi necro play … and both are very close to each other in damage. That’s a big win IMO. Apparently, variety isn’t a think in your playbook? That’s unfortunate … most people LIKE choice.
Regardless, anyone that thinks there is something exceptional about Necro condi is being very choosy … there are more effective condi builds out there; if the argument is that Necro condi needs a nerf … it shouldn’t be the first condi build that Anet looks at for nerfs.
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Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?
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Why is it even necessary to entice players to sell them, hoarding or not? Why is it always Anet’s job to ensure players get MC coins at the rate players see fit at the price they want to pay? That’s not how it works. I would hope an Economics major could get that.
its a designed economy, so it kind of is their focus. If they were laissez faire as you suggest, they would never have hired an economics guy.
anet may choose to change it or not, but its still of interest to economy focused people because its one of the issues they deal with in designing and analyzing an economy.
note, he says IF they want to change the behavior, he knows that maybe they dont want to.
basically, while this may bore you, economy focused people would probably find it interesting
That doesn’t make sense … designed economy does NOT mean players should get what they want, at the prices they want in the volumes they want. It has nothing to do with boring … it has everything to do with sensible.
the boring comment was me explaining why an economics dude would want to talk about it.
the fact that the economy is designed means that player satisfcation matters to the economy.
Again … the goal here of the economy is not 100% player satisfaction … it’s simply mats available to players at market prices.
no one said its 100% player satisfaction?
Then why do you bring it up the idea that a designed economy means customer satisfaction if you understand that not all players can be satisfied in the first place? That’s a non-starter of an argument. I guess you just flip flop for whatever suits your position?
The fact is simple. The economy isn’t designed to make everyone happy. Furthermore, if someone doesn’t like the price because it’s expensive and that makes them unhappy, you can be assured that sellers are as happy that people are buying at that price as well … so you can drop the nonsensical ‘dissatisfaction’ ploy as a reason for Anet to do something here.
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Why is it even necessary to entice players to sell them, hoarding or not? Why is it always Anet’s job to ensure players get MC coins at the rate players see fit at the price they want to pay? That’s not how it works. I would hope an Economics major could get that.
its a designed economy, so it kind of is their focus. If they were laissez faire as you suggest, they would never have hired an economics guy.
anet may choose to change it or not, but its still of interest to economy focused people because its one of the issues they deal with in designing and analyzing an economy.
note, he says IF they want to change the behavior, he knows that maybe they dont want to.
basically, while this may bore you, economy focused people would probably find it interesting
That doesn’t make sense … designed economy does NOT mean players should get what they want, at the prices they want in the volumes they want. It has nothing to do with boring … it has everything to do with sensible.
the boring comment was me explaining why an economics dude would want to talk about it.
the fact that the economy is designed means that player satisfcation matters to the economy.
Again … the goal here of the economy is not to ensure 100% player satisfaction with it. That’s a silly and unrealistic goal, whatever ‘designed’ implies. Therefore the premise that players should have ‘cheap’ leather/MC’s because they aren’t satisfied is nonsense to begin with.
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