Guild Wars 2

Pick your primary role, the one where you are in situations where slightly better gear could mean the difference between AoE looting and respawning at the waypoint. Pink that build up.

For situations and roles where you need not be minmaxed, oranges will be fine.

At least, that will be my approach.

This looks like the first step toward a loyalty program for the gemstore.

Rift has an excellent loyalty program, which gives you rewards for spending money in the shop beyond just the items you buy. Some of those rewards are truly outstanding. They’re generally fluff, but they’re fantastic fluff.

This is something GW2 should copy. I know people who have spent thousands in the Rift shop primarily to get the housing items deep into the loyalty program.

It doesn’t matter.

Withdraw and Hide in Shadows are both excellent. While it’s disappointing that the new heal appears useless, this is not an area where we needed help. Unless this is part of an overall effort to de-suck venoms, it’s a non-event for thieves.

The jellyfish swarm is hilarious

I think venoms are balanced with the assumption that thieves take all the associated traits, then share those venoms with a party bunched into melee range.

For the six or seven thieves out there running venomshare builds with a set party, I’m sure that’s a good way to view it.

This would need a significant buff to rise to the level of ‘terrible.’

Two options:

- Switch to SB, spam 1 to tag, use 2 on crowds/ fields and 4 on anyone downed, or
- Switch to an alt

I switch to my guardian or staff elementalist now, unless I only expect to be zerging a short while. The other classes simply add a lot more to the group’s chance to win. They also collect more bags.

That said, thieves are not useless in zergs. The short range is rough, but a spammable ranged blast finisher can definitely matter.

As a WvW thief, staff ele’s are generally roadkill. But then, I’m playing a spec focused on killing single targets, and they’re in an AoE build. D/D ele’s, on the other hand, often kill me so fast that I don’t have time to do much but wonder why I engaged a D/D ele. Stealth is invisibility, not invulnerability. Lightning Whip don’t care; lightning whip don’t give a kitten.

In short, there’s a lot of rock/ paper/ scissors stuff with specs, not just classes.

Because there is no subscription fee.

If you want a different reward system in game, you need to pick a game with a different monetization scheme. The latter drives the former. Though, I’d note that ANet is fairly reasonable relative to many of their competitors (e.g., Neverwinter with its $40 mounts).

Warriors are easy to play and good at everything. Everything

If you want to roam solo, a thief is a decent choice. If you want to be the best 1v1 duelist, look at mesmer. If you want to provide great support for zergs, try a staff elementalist.

But, all forum snark aside, the answer is currently “warrior” for anything in Guild Wars 2.

mcarswell.3768:

just requiring you to be out of combat to res a finished player would be enough and would make a huge difference imo.

Good idea! That would still let you rez your friends after you’ve won, so they can collect their bags. Yet, it would make zergs easier to handle.

+1!

You expected anything else?

Another vote for Dragun Knight (FoW, Yak’s Bend). Reasons:

- YB has performed above expectations, with second in silver
- He knows what he’s doing
- He puts in amazing hours

We have plenty of good commanders on YB (including ones in my own guild, which is not FoW), but DK is the generally recognized ‘main’ commander.

This will need a very short cooldown to work — 15 or 20 seconds, max. The risk of being blocked, blinded or otherwise CC’d make a long cooldown punishing.

It also needs to clear a condition, if they want to give us an alternative to stealth gameplay.

I expect this to be pretty terrible.

Players are heavily incented to transfer to zerg servers. Edge of the Mists will make this worse. While I am sure ANet enjoys the transfer fees, I am also sure they recognize that severely unbalanced WvW pops make for poor gameplay and ultimately impact customer retention.

They need to make it rewarding for folks to stay on smaller servers, to transfer to smaller servers and to pop into WvW. While some people already do so for the joy of fighting in a target-rich environment, that is a relatively small group of folks. Small servers need some mass appeal.

Everyone who completed the meta should get the reward. Anet should not further encourage people to flee smaller servers, or the unbalanced pops will only grow worse.

I’m fine personally — we have silver locked up, and I finished my meta in the first couple days. However, I’d like the folks on, say, Northern Shiverpeaks to have a reason to show up for S2.

I agree. Trying to roam against FA or SBI was pretty frustrating. You rarely bump into groups of fewer than a dozen, and it’s usually 20+ in prime time. Their map domination made it easy for my thief to complete the ‘kill yaks and sentries’ metas, but actual fights were rare.

I know there are some people who can take on 1v6 or 2v10 fights and do fine. Most people cannot.

Level 2’s are not going to autoattack their way to glory.

The rewards for winning exacerbate the problem, encouraging people to flee low-pop servers (or any server without a strong overnight presence). Edge of the Mists will make it even worse. That takes the sting out of queues on high-pop servers.

If we want real competition and good fights, underdogs must be rewarded. People need a good reason to stick on the Isle of Janthir, etc, and show up to fight. Right now, they are better off transferring before S2 to ensure they will win, get heaps of karma, complete whatever the meta is with ease etc.

New holiday pets!
Finally, there is a dog
Dogs make me happy

Thanks, Anet!

I did not get that email. I definitely buy gems, so I should be the target audience

There’s no villain. Consider:

- The vast majority of players never touch the forums, so the forum wars do not matter

- Commanders, especially the ones who make the strategic calls, are not morons or trolls (at least, ours on YB are not)

- Dominant, large-pop servers always risk being ganged up on by the two smaller foes. Otherwise, those smaller servers get crushed

- Sometimes, the league standings dictate alliances

In this case, YB and EB secured 2nd and 4th place in season one, respectively, by uniting against SBI. That is a better result than either server expected at season start. It’s not heroes and villains. It’s math and realpolitik.

Acting like a jerk generally comes back to bite you in the long run.

This matchup is interesting enough that I was checking the scores on my phone during Thanksgiving. I thought SBI might roll over, having lost their fairweathers after last week’s loss. It appears the exact opposite is true. Kudos to SBI’s guild leadership.

It looks like the two titans of Silver League will be trading punches right up to reset. Cool

I’ve been in EB for the most part, and there is no alliance. At least, there is none visible from a grunt’s eye view. This makes sense, as the standings are more or less locked (unless something impossible happens, like FA coming in third). There is certainly nothing in map chat telling us to leave anyone be.

I finished my meta in the first week, but I share the sentiment others expressed upthread — give other folks a bit of a break on stuff like the jumping puzzles. Perhaps we should even leave Stonemist thinly defended, as that can be a tough achievement for smaller servers.

This is becoming common. It’s too easy to do, and it can have a huge effect. Anet needs to deal with this quickly, or give players tools to do so. Some suggestions (all flawed, but you have to start somewhere):

- Velocity limits on taking supply, based on account achievement points (i.e., you can only use a certain amount of supply/ hour on low achievement accounts)

- Nobody can enter a golem without being at least WvW rank XX, unless they build that golem

- A robust report function, with a drop-down menu for the reason. If 6 players report you for wasting supply, that account is banned from WvW for 24 hours

- Same as above, but require that at least one reporting player have a commander tag up, or that all reporting players have a minimum number of WvW ranks, achievement points etc, indicating that they are unlikely to be griefing

- Anet could start patrolling the maps with invisible referees

This could get out of control in a hurry, if not dealt with.

jonnis.2946:

I’m just yet to see much evidence of a willingness to defend from any server.

Offense wins karma; Defense wins matches. Some servers defend. I know the commanders on mine are borderline obsessive about building siege in anything we intend to keep, and other people are good about keeping it tapped, spying out attacks, etc. Heck, we get forum complaints about Yak’s Bend ‘hiding behind siege’ instead of fighting. Heh.

Servers differ greatly in their approach. Personally, I don’t like the one-giant-blob farming train approach. If you don’t have overwhelming numbers, it won’t work. Even if it does work, it’s not compelling gameplay. It’s rewarding, but boring.

So, find a server where the strategy is more than just blobbing your way to glory. Also, note that map chat is usually not where the important communications happen. You need to be in the appropriate voice chat if you really want to be involved.

Anet needs to jump on this. It’s too easy for one defective with a throwaway account to wreak serious havoc in WvW by wasting supplies, trashing golems, etc. Every game has trolls, but this game is set up in a way that gives trolls the power to have a big impact.

I don’t know whether the answer is bannings, achievement thresholds or other requirements before you can build, a robust player ‘report’ function or… something else. I do know this is important.

Alliances aren’t cheating. They’re part of the game.

Supply sabotage by throwaway accounts? That is cheating, and it could utterly ruin the game. I hope ANet gets a handle on it, quickly.

Great fights in BP’s borderlands this evening. This looks like it’s going to be a fun week

Arya Whitefire.8423:

We worked to get ebay to 2nd place, not to “Stick to to SBI”, but because of the way the league scoring system works. I have a feeling not many of you were thinking about the value of maintaining 2nd place, if you had, I think you could’ve done so.

Repeated for emphasis. Strategy works.

What have we learned (from the perspective of a Yak’s Bend grunt):

- Coverage matters, but politics and strategy can overcome a larger server

- Alliances are not cheating, but explicitly part of the design for WvW (the relevant dev quotes are repeated upthread)

- Some folks engage in actual cheating. It’s shameful. Responsible guilds will work to control the supply-trolls, and hopefully ANet will help here as well. If this gets out of hand, it could really hurt WvW

- Winning and losing have tremendous momentum, due to the ‘fairweather effect’

- Folks in WvW for the fights loved this matchup, as nobody lacked for targets for long. Folks in WvW for the PPT reacted based on how big their PPT was at any given time

- Yak’s commanders did a really good job. I was impressed with their coordination

- Yaks is good at siege and golems. Some people tend to call siege cheap, as opposed to open-field fights. Similar thinking led to the glorious French victory at Agincourt

- Yes, the above was sarcasm

- This week was far more interesting than the usual one-sided stompfests we’ve gotten in leagues

I wish I could spectate part of the match between SBI and FA next week. I am curious to see how SBI reacts, and whether they change their tactics

Snit Dirtnap

Nema Tode.5637:

That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.

Opportunist.

It’s in all power builds. Some builds will still see a slight increase in initiative (D/D). Others are completely hosed (P/P).

Thieves will remain viable for many things, even if they’re not optimal for any.

Hype.8032:

The initiative changes will at least make it so we can roam faster using shortbow or heartseeker. In combat init regen isn’t getting improved but out of combat is seeing a nice increase.

That’s a good point. I already feel like Heartseeker + Thrill of the Crime in my D/D WvW build provide tremendous overland speed. That’s about to get even better.

If you find a S/D build that works, do post it. Part of me still wants to build Bolt, but it’s not currently worthwhile.

Solo archetypes work great in WvW. Your job just changes — you’re the sneaky, mobile guy working way behind the lines, disrupting supply, picking off stragglers and scouting enemy positions. I play mine like a U-Boat working the mid-atlantic in 1940. It’s a fun playstyle. Not nearly as rewarding as riding the karma train, but you make a difference.

And never underestimate shortbow in a power/crit build. It’s not just for tagging, blasting fields and mobility. It’s a heck of a weapon in its own right. One of the primary downsides to a condition build is you’re not as good with this little gem

I hope this stays close. On YB, we’ve been on both sides of the complete rollover matchups, and neither end of that is really much fun.

EB is doing better than I expected, too. How cool would it be to get to Wednesday or so, with all three realms potentially in the mix for a win?

I’m sticking. I like the thief gameplay more than any other class. Also, it doesn’t hurt that my favorite spec (WvW-oriented 0/30/30/0/10, D/D & SB) is pretty much shadowstepping out of the red nerf-circle

Lifeson.4352:

Step 1: get 2 berserker daggers and a berserker shortbow. Get some standard sigils like force and air or whatever.
Step 2: go to the mists and practice hitting number 5 with the dagger on moving golems
Step 3: get some semi tanky gear like cavalier and valkyrie, giving you high crit dmg while maintaining some survivability, get superior runes of speed
Step 4: spec x/30/30/x/x with hidden killer, 2 ini back on stealth, condi removal in stealth, heal in stealth
Step 5: equip shadowstep, shadow refuge, blinding powder

And that’s about it. You’re now an unkillable roaming machine, atleast untill the december patch.

That’s not a bad summary The bit about learning how to time Cloak and Dagger on a moving target is particularly important. When I started a thief, that was a huge difference-maker once I got it down. Timing it with Steal is the next step after that.

As for the December patch, doesn’t that build get buffed a bit? It’s how I run, and when I think through a typical attack pattern, the buff to base initiative should outweigh the nerf to opportunist.

D/D is one of the few viable thief builds that does not get squashed on 12/10.

Every good guild I have been in recruits people, not classes. I understand you’re discussing class balance, and I agree that thieves have some issues right now, but just skip the elitist groups that only want to run whatever the FOTM is.

The flavor of the month changes. The people don’t.

Most of that is a standard-issue 0/30/30/10/0 D/D build, and it’s fine. There are a few things you may want to think about, however:

- You have no good way to consistently clear conditions, on a low vitality build (toughness does not mitigate condition damage). This is a deadly combination. You might drop Infusion of Shadow for the condition clear on stealth trait. D/D can manage initiative fairly well if you’re good about not missing Cloak and Dagger, or using it on folks with Aegis/ Block up.

- You have little access to movement speed increases. It’s hard to backstab targets who are moving 25% to 33% faster than you, which will be a substantial number of folks. You could either load up the signet or fix this with runes (Traveler or Speed will both work, and both are reasonably helpful overall for your build)

- I don’t think there are any thief builds for which Divinity runes are the best choice. If you want to maximize damage, try Scholars. If you plan to use Basilisk venom as your elite, Lyssa are good. Or use this slot to solve your movement speed problem

- Full ‘zerk gear for WvW is not for the faint of heart. There’s so much AoE and condition spam out there it can be brutal. For a build that runs Hidden Killer, you can drop a fair amount of precision and still do well. Take a look at Valkyrie for your armor. It’s a very popular choice for D/D in WvW.

- For a high crit build, you really must try Sigil of Fire on your shortbow. That + Cluster Bomb (detonated early for more cluster bombs) can make for an unholy pile of booms all at once. Grab another weapon for bloodlust stacks

Good luck with your thief!

For overland PvE, Sword/ Pistol trivializes everything that isn’t a dredge or a champion. Your autoattack does good AoE damage, and your offhand has a spammable AoE blind. Gear is standard power/ precision.

It’ll be boring, though Try the other combinations are you level, as they all have very different styles. S/D acrobatics build vs P/D conditions build vs classic D/D backstabber — they feel like different classes. One of them is likely to suit.

It’s an MMO, mate — the balance of power changes from patch to patch. Thieves are not the apex predator now, but you can absolutely get stuff done in WvW and have a lot of fun. If you like the playstyle, jump in and start stabbing

OP’s idea is brilliant. I would love incentives for folks to break into smaller bands. Even 10v10’s are a joy compared to the 30v30 dustups.

Rangers, staff elementalists.

That guy is either roleplaying on the forums, or he thinks he’s a real-life paladin, and folks who play thieves are actually evil and deserve some form of divine punishment.

Online gaming attracts some interesting folks.

Farzo.8410:

I happend to be stuck with my Guardian.

I’m not just able to go away from 30 in Virtues. All that cleansing, more boons and boon duration has become like crack to me.

Ontop of that I’m in full cleric armor with soldier accessories.

I just can’t go away from it.

HALP.

I am in the same spot with my guardian alt. I think the solution is another set of gear. The full healer-boonbot build is too powerful in the right setting to abandon altogether. But anytime I’m not doing organized WvW with my guild, that build loses most of its luster. I’m going to go shopping for some knight’s armor and zerker accessories soon

Popeurban makes an excellent point, that P/D is easier to learn. You needn’t worry about positional requirements nearly as much.

For any dagger offhand build, learning to time ‘revealed’ is critical. I do that through sound. Both Dagger and Pistol mainhand attacks have a rhythm coming out of stealth that you can time without having to watch your buff bar. It’s been a bit since I played P/D, but I recall the sound of the ‘1’ attack from stealth was, “BOOMBOOMBOOM, boom, boom, boom.” On that final ‘boom’ from autoattack, I want to have CnD started and be in, or on my way to melee range. Dagger mainhand has a similar pattern.

Qae, on your specific question above, I’d stick in P/D when they close, if it’s a single target. If CnD is ready, hit them with it. If you’re still revealed, dodge roll. I don’t think you gain a lot against a single foe by switching to D/D for deathblossom.

You’ve started with D/D & SB, and that is a terrific build for a WvW roamer. It has tremendous overland speed (heartseeker covers a lot of ground), and it can certainly kill things. 30 in Criticals and 30 in Shadow Arts are pretty standard for the WvW variant. The other 10 can be useful in any of the other lines — it’s preference.

Watch some of Yishi’s vids to see how the build is played. Be aware, this shows the upper limits of the build. You don’t need this guy’s ludicrous levels of situational awareness and experience to do well, but you can learn a lot from his vids because he talks you through his thinking. Here’s one..

I favor Valkyrie armor, with some mix of berserker trinkets/ weapons. For a build with Hidden Killer, you can afford to drop some precision in exchange for vitality.

If you want a build with an easier learning curve, look at a P/D condition build. That does not translate well to group PvE, but it’s effective in WvW. Google up some Laela Blackbird vids to see how that plays.