Guild Wars 2

Definitely google up Yishis.

The hardest thing for me to learn was patience. It’s ok to stay in stealth a bit. It’s ok to let stealth wear off, then re-stealth without backstabbing. Most people blow all their cooldowns as fast as they can push buttons in a 1v1, so a little patience can put you into an advantageous position.

The biggest thing, though, is to play other classes. I have the easiest time with the classes I have also leveled to 80 and at least fiddled around with in WvW, as I have some idea what to expect from them. I also know what classes and specs to just not bother. Pick your fights!

I’d change it to clear cripple/ immobilize, then provide 1.5 seconds of evade and superspeed.

Random teleports are such a bad idea, I wonder how it got through the initial proposal stage.

I assumed the OP was writing us from last year. Heartseeker was ludicrously overpowered for the first few months of the game.

It’s quite possible he’s been without access to the game, or perhaps even the outside world, locked in solitary confinement, rage slowly building about that time he got killed in a video game back in twenty-aught-twelve.

Given that thieves have no blocks, no access to protection, medium armor, low hit points, unimpressive healing and pretty much no defenses other than stealth and mobility… I suppose it would make things easier for everyone else if we just stood there, visible and in range for them to kill.

I’m confidant OP would find that quite “fair.”

Aaroneous.6190:

Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch.

Another point. I assume that english is not your first language, but posts that rely on “I am really angry” and “you are a spoiled kid who cries” have never changed anyone’s mind about anything, in any language.

People get engraged that thieves can escape fights. They miss the fact that, if the thief is fleeing, that doesn’t mean the thief won.

So, mesmers are ok, but thieves are imbalanced due to Shadowstep (50 second cooldown, 1200 range). You’re aware that the mesmer version has a 30 second cooldown, right? And that its 900 range can be increased to 1200?

You also may have missed the patch last week, where the traits that enabled permastealth got nerfed (a nerf which most thieves here supported)

Angelica Dream.7103:

I wold be very interested in trying a Thief for WvW. I was just unsure what got nerffed in the last update.
Thanks for the Youtube suggestion. Is you build a standard WvW?

Yep, 0/30/30/-/- is pretty standard for WvW dagger/ shortbow builds. There are certainly variants, but I suspect that’s the most popular base.

All thief power/ precision builds start with 30 in CA, whether for WvW or PvE, for any weapon set. The 30 SA is for WvW only, and it’s incredibly powerful there — that’s where all your sustainability comes from. For the max-DPS builds used in dungeons, you go 0 SA, moving 25 of those points into DA and 5 of them into Acro (for a total of 15, so you can dodge more).

Nothing in this build got nerfed on 12/10. If anything, it got a slight buff in initiative regen. The big nerfs hit two builds: 1) Sword Mainhand and 2) D/P permastealth.

Thieves are excellent roamers (solo or small group) in WvW. They’re also fine in dungeons, though the gear and spec changes. I don’t do sPvP, so I have no comment there.

For WvW, here are some build thoughts:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Just-hit-80-really-need-help-with-builds/first#post3376890

If you want to see various thief builds in action in WvW, google up the youtubes for “Yishis” and “Laela Blackbird.” They play the two basic archetypes for WvW thieves (dagger burst and pistol condition, respectively). Yishis, in particular, does a good job of explaining how to go about killing folks and taking their stuff

If you’re fighting against thieves who “spam HS,” you’re not even fighting good thieves.

What is the purpose of the build? Fractals, WvW, solo PvE? No build is optimal for everything.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

And how the steal bug is still in place after over a year is just showing how much care Arenanet gives about the class.

When you steal it freezes you in place til death or Inf arrow(shortbow 5)/shadowstep.

This is not a thief-specific bug, but an issue with many teleport abilities. It happens to my elementalist quite a bit with Lightning Flash. Anet has said they’re trying to fix it.

tolunart.2095:

The price of gold fluctuates and is out of the control of Anet.

Every product is based on inputs (e.g., raw materials, labor) that are not under the control of the sell. Yet, any rational pricing scheme takes into account the alternatives available to the customer.

If the concept is to build a regen thief with tremendous sustain, why not just pop 30 into Shadow Arts, and grab both ‘heal on stealth’ traits? I bet you’d live longer than trying to work up a build around a bad grandmaster trait in acrobatics.

Heck, make it a condition build with pistol mainhand, and SoM still makes sense for your heal. Something like this has a whole lot of sustain:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmiO3ey5E+5EB3Dm60m694ri1saFoJA-jkCB4iBE1JyUAg0CQk0A0HwZqFRjtsuIas6ZER16jYSBso0I-w

Perma-regen, heal on stealth, heal on bleed ticks, heal on steal.. Just lots and lots of green numbers.

panicbutton.1053:

Short bow is a standard side utility weapon and is absolutely never used as a main hand weapon.

What is a “main hand weapon” in your mind? If you mean, “the weapon you use the most,” I think several folks have told you they do use shortbow more than their other set. This includes some prominent sPvP thieves.

If there were a bunch of SB traits, then the weapon would be balanced around those traits. I love the fact that it’s great right out of the box, and I don’t think I’m alone in that.

The beauty of shortbow is that it needs no specific traits to make it effective. Any power/ precision build can make excellent use of it, both for killing and for utility. If you think it’s used only for utility, you haven’t seen it used correctly yet.

On the list of thief weapons and traits that need to be buffed, shortbow doesn’t make the first page.

Some specific scenarios:

- Multiple people (or mesmer clones) are clustered together. Spam #2, and learn how to detonate it early. Extra credit if you have a sigil of fire on your bow

- You want to kite a melee character. 1 and 3 let you kite some people forever… 3 is a spammable dodge/ gap opener/ crippler

- You want to poison someone, such as a warrior with healing signet. Shortbow makes it easy

- You want to stack might, or heal yourself, or cast an AoE blindness… find the right field in the zerg, and spam 2 into it

- You need to fight from range, for any of several reasons (e.g., red circles you’d rather not enter)

Shortbow. It’s not just for tagging anymore

Clumsy.6257:

On the other hand, when I run a dungeon tour with guildies/friends and we can’t find a 5th, we typically kick between 20-30 people due to a blatant lack of brains and reading ability

If only 1 player in 25 is good enough to fill out your groups, it’s likely you set the bar a bit higher than most. I wouldn’t be confidant your definition of something like ‘casual’ is all that widespread.

Vertical progression should be more about the character than the gear — my characters should not be mere vehicles to transport pink goodies to battle.

Autostacking stuff in the bank. Please.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That, or they have a compulsion to want everything in game, thus the psychological drive to “need” to buy, which leads to the “forced” argument. And my counter to that argument would be that they should seek professional help outside of the game.

There are definitely people in this category, and they need to stop playing these games. If they bump into a cash shop as predatory as NWN’s, for example, they could drop thousands of dollars in short order, both for gear and cosmetics. Anet’s cash shop is pretty tame in comparison, but I suppose people could still get caught up in cosmetics.

Cursedrew, I am admittedly lumping your post into the broad swathe of complaints about the cash shop, most of which don’t make the distinctions you do. That’s unfair on my part. I simply think that cash shops are the future of MMO’s, at least for the big ones, and big part of their business model is going to be pushing people to buy stuff.

If you want to increase your backstab damage, your gear is already exotic and you have copied Yishi’s build, here’s what’s next:

- Ascended mainhand weapon. The increased weapon power makes a difference

- Gain many, many WvW ranks and invest in guard killer. This gives you a second set of bloodlust stacks

- Oh, yeah, make sure you get your bloodlust stacks before you start frapsing, then replace that weapon with something that adds damage

- Roll with someone who can help you stack might, and stack that might high

- Look at your foods/ consumables, and make sure you’re adding all the power you can. There are also foods that add +crit damage, though they are pricey

- Do grab those runes. Both Divinity Traveler have decent amounts of +crit damage

And remember, it’s mostly down to who you hit. Within a few minutes last week, I popped on two different elementalists. One backstab was 11.9k, and the other was 4k, both crits. There’s nothing like upleveled glass builds to make you feel mighty, right?

Yargesh.4965:

OP the company knows what competition is coming out and when. That they have not arrived at your doorstep with a complete break-down of their future plans is I admit a shock. Have you tried calling to find out why?

This is mean-spirited, ad hominem and snarky. But it’s really good at being those things, it made me laugh and I agree with the sentiment.

Anet clearly knows what they’re doing. GW2 is not another failed WoW clone, and the pace at which the devs here react to problems is far above the industry average. These guys are pretty good. I think we can count on them to keep the game’s quality up.

What’s the worst case scenario, anyway? Someone comes out with a much better game next year? As a consumer of MMO’s, and a non-shareholder in NCSoft, that does not strike me as a disaster. We’re in a golden age for MMO’s. The more good choices, the more competition, the better

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

Yes.

The very best feature of GW2 is this: It fully supports vertical progression through multiple playstyles. All require time and commitment, and some are faster than others, but you can achieve statistically best-in-slot gear just by logging in every day and playing the parts of the game you prefer. You never feel forced to spend significant time in an activity you do not enjoy for itself.

This was largely true when exotics were the top tier. You can orange up your toons through WvW, overland PvE (karma), dungeons, crafting or just flipping stuff on the tradepost. If none of those playstyles appeal to you, you’re in the wrong game (and perhaps wrong genre!). Perhaps the pace was too fast, but the variety of means was wonderful.

Ascended armor is a break with this. You must craft. Moreover, you must PvE (dragonite exists in WvW, but it’s much slower to acquire). Drops exist, but they are so rare as to be meaningless. Parts of this are starting to feel like work. I’ll commit to playing a lot at things I enjoy, but I don’t want that second-job feeling I remember from prior MMO’s.

Curse Drew.8679:

I’m about done posting in these forums altogether, you amoung others have misinterpreted what i wrote, then you quote one sentance, and go on a rant stating the obvious. So again, i don’t have a problem with micro transactions, & the cash shop IS a good way to fund the game. The business model IS NOT about selling exclusive items for cash, because you can grind gold and exchange them for that item through the gem store.

I understood your distinction, but I believe it’s meaningless. Players grinding gold and converting to gems is not a business model, but a feature of the game. It produces no direct revenue. Most companies, after their initial growth stage, base their business model on activities that generate revenue. Anet is going to do things that encourage us to spend money, because that’s how they make it.

The real puzzler, though, is when people use words like “force” or “pay to win” in relation to buying cosmetic items. They make me wonder if we share common definitions of words like “force” and “win.” I don’t feel like I have lost the game because there are some minis I do not possess, and I can’t believe there are more than a very few people who do.

Tael.5432:

Ahh okay, cool point.

I wonder whether it would be worth investing some condition damage for the bleeds on dagger 3, or pistol 1 + shortbow.

The generally accepted answer is… nope, it ain’t worth it.

If you are only applying two conditions, they’ll be easily cleansed. Condition builds need a bunch of different conditions applied. Moreover, maximizing damage on a power/ precision build already takes three stats, plus some vitality. Those will eat your whole stat budget. Stick with power, precision, crit damage and however much vitality and/ or toughness you feel you need to keep upright.

Poison works just fine with zero condition damage. It’s mostly useful to reduce healing, and to lay down a field for someone to exploit.

Dagger 3? Yeah, that’s hard to make good use of in a power build. I hear some folks use it for the brief evade in some cases.

On a 0/30/30/10/0 D/D build, running no +initiative traits, it feels about the same as it did pre-patch. Out of combat is a bit better, allowing me to spam more heartseekers for overland speed. If there is a difference in combat, it’s subtle enough I can’t see it. That may be observer error. I’m not doing controlled tests

I think the opportunist nerf and the base regen buff are basically cancelling each other out.

Valkyrie vs Berserker vs a mix of the two is a long-running debate with no definitive answer. Factors to consider:

- The more you lean toward fractals, the more you’ll want pure zerker

- The more you learn toward WvW, the more you need some survivability

- Valkyrie trades Precision for Vitality, retaining Power and Crit Damage. If you’re running D/D Hidden Killer, that makes up for a lot of lost precision

Running Valk armor and Zerk accessories/ weapons is a fairly popular choice for a WvW-focused dagger thief. You can’t really go wrong with it. You can add push that mix in either direction, to suit your own taste. Another approach is to mix Zerker and Soldier gear. If you choose to do that, make sure you read and understand what Loperdos posted here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84827-thief-armor-berzerker-knights-valkyrie-mix/#entry2226597

For runes, max DPS is Scholar Runes. There are other good choices for deeps, but Scholar is proven the best. Many folks use Traveler instead, as they’re still fairly good for DPS and save you a utility slot. Runes of Speed also work, and are much cheaper.

As to the source of your gear, it doesn’t matter. I crafted all mine (and Valk exotic has to be crafted, I think). You can grab stuff from Temples, the WvW vendor or the Tradepost as you like — there are no set bonuses for armor pieces. It’s down to what mix of stats you want and what skins you prefer.

If you have been playing a while, you may have a decent stash of laurels. Take a look at the laurel vendor in your home server borderlands. For rings/ amulet, you may be able to skip exotic in some slots and go right to ascended. Similarly, if you have built up some guild commendations, you may be able to grab ascended accessories sooner than most.

lujate.5432:

Oghier.7419:

…
The good news is that ascended armor offers a very small upgrade, so lacking it is not a disaster.

Unfortunately, I already leveled to 500, so I kind of feel compelled to see it thru.

Make the best of it, then. Sell your damask as you make it at the current hilarious price. Once the rich and impatient are geared, craft your own tiny upgrades next month

Anything tanky and mobile. Bad players try to kill the bunker, and you stab those bad players in the back. Rinse, repeat, upload video

I have tried many different builds in WvW, and this 0/30/30/10/0 version is the best compromise I have found:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmiO3eS+E+5Ex2jeuTiy9wpJtpdFwKA-jEDBYfBCbBkoAksAiIAI9pIaslhFRjVXDTVSpW5KQmzCaeDK1SBonwI-w

Key features:

- Overland Speed. Runes of the Traveler help, and (untargetted) Heartseeker spam will let you cover enormous amounts of ground quickly

- Plenty of burst damage — this is a backstab build

- Some survivability due to Valkyrie armor. You lose precision, compared to ’zerk, but Hidden Killer mitigates the loss

- All kinds of escape tools in the utilities

- 30 SA is the thief’s best friend in battlegrounds, providing condition clear, AoE blind and a heal every time you hide

- Shortbow offhand is close to a requirement, as this is what makes you useful in medium to large groups. Spam #2 blasts into water fields or fire fields or any other kind of field, and you are a healing-buffing machine. It also lets you tag the other zerg

- Your gear will translate reasonably well to PvE, if you decide to do dungeons. You’ll probably drop the 30 SA for fractals, going 25 into DA and upping the Acrobatics investment to 15. Your runes are not ideal for PvE, but they’re still pretty good

Condition builds also work well for what you want to do in WvW, and they’re easier to play than the power/ precision D/D build I linked above. Sadly, condition builds translate poorly to organized PvE of any sort. You’d need an entirely different set of gear for fractals (and with Ascended out now, that’s a prohibitive barrier)/

To get some examples of how these builds work and play, google up Yishis and Mugi for D/D videos, and take a look at Laela Blackbird for a good P/D condition build. They’re easy to find on Youtube.

Welcome to 80. Thieves are fun

Cynz.9437:

i have 6 ascended weapons + legendary on my thief, i could have had 3-4 ascended armor pieces (if i didn’t sell mats for gold) right now, most of that was made doing WvW

Six ascended weapons = 3,000 dragonite. Keep Lords give 3 to 5 each. The SM lord drops more, but you can only take that so often. You’ve knocked off nearly 1,000 keeps?

I’m leaving the legendary and the armor out of the equation.

You have to PvE for dragonite. There’s no real alternative. Just resign yourself to hitting a bunch of temples every day, and use the appropriate websites/ overlays to ensure you can time it correctly.

The good news is that ascended armor offers a very small upgrade, so lacking it is not a disaster.

Alternately, just roll a warrior

Curse Drew.8679:

denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model.

That is the business model. Add in box sales, and you have described exactly how this wonderful gameworld is funded.

If the notion of microtransactions offends you, then AAA MMO’s are not for you. This is where the whole industry’s headed. Every game will have a cash shop.

If the notion that others can pay for purely cosmetic items bothers you, then I do not understand how your brain works. The idea that minis are ‘P2W’ stretches the definition of ‘win’ to include anything you’d prefer to be different.

Lord Kuru.3685:

This is why the Ascended grind is so bad. Who’s going to try new builds when something like this is likely to happen?

Yep. I love to fiddle with builds, and I have multiple exotic sets for each of my characters. I do not foresee that happening with ascended.

Thanks for the information. There’s another trait that isn’t very tempting.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Also.. SBI. And Maguuma

Will it work for armor?

Reikou.7068:

…the initiative regen increase is HUGE and really improve the combat viability of thieves in general.

I haven’t seen it. I play D/D with SB offhand, 0/30/30/10/0 — a fairly standard WvW build. The nerf to opportunist appears to have balanced out the buff to base regen. If I am earning more initiative in combat, it’s not enough that I’ve noticed.

My overland speed has improved. I can now spam Heartseeker a bit more to scoot around a bit faster. But that is the only real change to how my thief plays.

People say elementalists have a high skill ceiling. I think it’s more a low floor. It’s exceptionally demanding, and a mediocre player can end up being terrible. A good player can probably be just as effective with several other classes. Moreover, he’ll do so with significantly fewer actions per minute and thus opportunities for error.

However, it’s also a fun class. The design is interesting. In most contexts, I think that makes up for the difficulty curve. Add in the potential synergies with your group from all those water and fire fields, and it may be more balanced than some of us think.

For example, the best AoE healer in the game is probably an elementalist, paired with a shortbow thief who is paying attention

Nice vids. Heck, I even liked the music.

If you’re going to wreck that many faces, however, you have a duty to post your build and gear. I’m pretty sure there’s a clause to that effect buried somewhere in the EULA

kelman.9451:

I don’t have a elementalist, but it seems like to me they are the best aoe class in the game, whether damage or heals.

I think those honors go to grenadier engineer and healing guardian, respectively, but the staff elementalist may be the best combination of both.

Xillllix.3485:

Overall my meteors crit at 4-5k with a few stacks of might and with my stacks of guard defense and food I have 22,500hp (took me a year to optimize my stats, they are quite epic… – all ascended except armor)

Could you perhaps link this build, particulary the armor and runes? I’m trying to think through a good, balanced staff elementalist build for WvW, and it appears you may have nailed it.

Thanks in advance.

I am fairly happy with my 0/20/0/30/20 staff build for WvW:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhImkbzR4QlDAkHocCLCFWQRRxOzA-jEDBYfAYLIkFAUBIpPKrJQCilhhtkKIVXRTZDTdiIq2bgIqWKA9EGB-w

Key features:

- Reasonably good at everything. This is a hybrid, designed for groups and zergs, providing AoE damage, buffs and heals. It is great at nothing

- Easy permaswiftness. WvW is painful if you’re slow

- A lot of personal condition removal, with a fair bit of AoE clears (the synergies between cleansing water, elemental attunement and soothing disruption are wonderful)

- I prefer to use dodges defensively, not to cast spells. I do not like evasive arcana, as powerful as it is

- Enough survivability to forgive a few mistakes. This is an alt (my main is a thief), so I’ll never have the reps needed to become fantastic at playing it

- Plenty of boons for myself and others. I really like Elemental attunement

- Major Con 1: I am not a mobile trebuchet. Pure zerk gear, however, gets me killed too often

- Major Con 2: I am terrible at 1v1. I don’t seek them out, but you sometimes get caught. I may try fiery greatsword for this, or just equip a different weapon set when running from the spawn to zerg

- Major Con 3: No vigor

Feedback is welcome. I’ve put a lot of thought into making this build do what I want it to, but again, this is an alt, so I’m not an expert on the class. Note, the gear is not finished, but what I happen to have on him. I have not decided whether to go for ascended celestial, or the same armor types I have now.

This is some serious nitpicking.

The fight with the s/s asura warrior was interesting. Two good players. It’s a shame that others broke it up, but I wonder if that stalemate wouldn’t have lasted forever.

Google up Yishi and Mugi. They’re both skilled. Yishi often narrates his fights in detail, making his vids an excellent tutorial on advanced murdering.

If you ever get a desire to try a condition build, look for Laela Blackbird.

I’ve had one drop each from the Alchemist and the Spider. I’ve killed a ton of regular mobs in the zone and got none.