Guild Wars 2

I do not think that is new, certainly not with ambient creatures. It has made Young Karka farming a bit of a pain for a long time, as most of them have crabs. Nearby

As glory boosters are about to be obsolete, perhaps remove them from the chests?

My main is a D/D and SB thief. My primary alt is an elementalist. Here are some tips:

- D/D thieves are predictable. They will approach using a gap closer (if it’s up — Steal has a cooldown of about 30s) and Cloak and Dagger to stealth. CnD is melee range and has a cast time. If you avoid that CnD through any means, the thief just blew about half his initiative for nothing

- If the thief does stealth via any means other than Shadow Refuge (the little house over the circle, which has a long cooldown), his stealth will last four seconds. He’s going to be sneaking behind you to backstab. If you want to be defensive, count to two then dodge. If you want to be offensive, then take advantage of the fact that you basically know where he is and you have some good PVAoE damage skills.

- Don’t fight near animals or NPC’s, if possible. If your elite is a greater elemental, do not pop it for this fight. He’ll use those to stealth.

- Don’t gear in full zerk. If you can’t survive the initial burst, nothing else matters. If his CnD/ Backstab opener hits for 4k and 12k respectively, then you’ve chosen a gearset that will greatly reward other players in burst damage specs

At some point, he’ll be out in the open. You have at least as much burst potential as he does. */D Elementalists are a tough matchup for D/D thieves.

As a long-time thief player, I now prefer my staff elementalist alt in WvW (which is my primary interest here). If the two met in combat, the thief would win 10 of 10 fights, but the ele does so much more to help the zerg win out. He’s good at so many things — AoE damage, healing, CC, permaswiftness for overland speed, even if he’s great at nothing.

That last bit is why the 5-man meta prefers other classes, though. Flexibility, crowd control and healing don’t matter much when all you want is five heavies in zerk gear to clear a dungeon fast. Personally, I don’t care, as I don’t like that playstyle anyway. If I want to do a dungeon, it’s with guildies. We all play whatever chars we want.

The recipe teaches the wrong thing. I got the endless toy golem one from a giant gift, and consuming it told me I’d learned some kind of darksteel refinement recipe.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Just a thought, would you guys like me to expand the list to include the components to the other crafting bits like the deldrimor ingots and damask?

Yes, please!

For those of us with active alts, it’s enormously helpful to see the whole picture when deciding how to prioritize gold and our existing stockpiles.

Yoji.1420:

… you have become NPC filler text in his single player GW2 forums experience!.

So… find any bargains today?

Sanduskel.1850:

…Underwhelmed by the initiative performance. Worse than was led to believe.

“If we’ve lost Cronkite, we’ve lost the war”

Thanks for compiling this, Natsu. It helps my planning considerably.

Just make sure to keep maximum uptime on your Protection, Block and Regen buffs.

(that was sarcasm)

Maladon.5760:

Sanduskel.1850:

I really wish that Anet would separate Spvp from wvw balancing too. The games are quite different.

Actually they should do the opposite and balance on an even smaller scale. If every 1v1 between any combination of classes came down to the best player winning the game would be much better.

I wonder if that’s possible, as the real issue is build more than class. If I fight an elementalist of equal skill, for example, the odds of me winning if he’s staff are significantly better than if he’s D/D.

Every class has ‘duel’ builds, AoE builds, support specs and hybrids of all three.

aLovedhater.4096:

i actually just posted a build fore the new healskill, it’s full cleric, using the new healing skill and full venoms. it focuses of condi dmg and stealing/signet activation for damage, and it’s tanky and has tons of sustain, it would be used for group wvw and zerging, (WvW)
what do you guys think of it?
:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV6KFhmLNpai/cCh7hFCVPlmCaym6UkVaFA-jkCBYiKzIOBiCAiWAmOAIPqIasFhFRjV1ATtiIq2roIa1CB8dNA-w

I think you’re being creative. But I also think that, if you want to play a cleric-build support role, you and your group would be far better off if you were a guardian or elementalist, or perhaps an engineer.

Tibstrike.2974:

Oghier.7419:

Part of me wants to try a 30/30/0/0/10 staff build in full zerker gear. But the other part of me thinks that would not be an elementalist, but a trebuchet with boots (also, a rallybot). I doubt the fun would last long.

I have really enjoyed 0/20/0/30/20 as a balanced all-rounder for WvW group play, and it looks like nothing important will change.

I was theorycrafting a bit ago and came up with that build. What armor and such are you running with that one?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhImkbwx4QlDAkHn4CLCFVQRRxM7A-j0CBYLBhsAgKAJ9RZNBSQsMMsVMBp6KaKbYqTER1eDER1SBIowI-w

I really like the build. It’s not optimized for anything, but it’s reasonable at everything. It is designed for group and zerg play in WvW. Perma-swiftness, plenty of condition cleanses, decent damage, decent healing and all the control skills that staff provides.

The gear isn’t perfect. It’s what I happen to have on my ele.

I love the idea of making transformation potions hide your tag. “Hey Sarge… does that tree look a bit odd to you?”

You can hide behind stuff already, though. It just has to be tall stuff When you consider that 75% of folks never pan their camera around, looking only straight ahead, it’s actually easy in some spots.

Thank you for doing this research. You’ve saved me from the temptation to use the forge to fish for precursors

lordkrall.7241:

Sanduskel.1850:

You cannot make the quiver of 1000 arrows with bloodstone dust. No word if that is working as intended.

Clearly it is not working as intended, seeing as they said in the patch notes that ALL of them would be craftable without Fractal materials.
Thus it is a bug.

Unlikely to be a bug. The magic find gear recipes are obsolete, and using them to bypass the price of powerful bloods probably isn’t intended. I think it’s more likely that the patch notes were incomplete.

T6 mats aren’t easy for anyone to get, in any game mode. That’s one grind you’ll have to resign yourself to suffer through.

Maugetarr.6823:

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that. Traveller runes are my go to now for classes when I can afford them.

I always find a way to fit in either Traveler runes or perma-swiftness, on any char I build. Otherwise, WvW is too frustrating. The runes are pretty solid for a D/D thief, too, as we can take advantage of everything they offer. The crit damage, in particular, is great

If you’re short on coin, Runes of Speed aren’t bad. They’re just not nearly as good

For WvW, the classic D/D with SB offhand will work. In fact, it gets a (slight) initiative buff. ?/30/30/?/?, traited to heal, blind and remove conditions every time you stealth. Valkyrie armor, zerker everything else.

It’s not the most creative of builds, but it certainly works. It’s mobile (I use Traveler Runes, but you can use the signet), it can escape fights, it has plenty of burst damage and condition removal is a cinch. Hard to complain.

I don’t sPvP, so I have no opinion there.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bottom line is, you can’t always actively react on everything, you still need some passive defense in place especially when the Thief goes in stealth.

Thieves also rely on active defenses. If we don’t dodge it, blind it or hide, we’re toast

For solo PvE, you have options to make life a lot easier:

- Sword/ Pistol. Spam the blind fields, learn to hide around corners to bunch up ranged attackers. Note, this won’t help against Dredge, where you are now. Everywhere else, though, it’s ez-mode

- Spec 30 in Shadow Arts (with another 30 in Critical, and the last 10 dealer’s choice). Your three traits there can do some combination of Heal, Regeneration, AoE Blind, Initiative Regen or Condition Clear when you stealth. SA is not our maximum DPS line, but it’s our best sustainability spec. Once you learn to time the revealed debuff, you’ll blow through NPC’s

- Change out Signet of Malice for another heal. The signet shines in multihit builds (P/D is the best one, D/D has one good skill, deathblossom). If you have 30 in SA, Hide in Shadows can be a fight reset

- Toss Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder on your bar. The more access you have to stealth, the more often you can reset a fight and recover

- Here’s a good trick all */D thieves need to know. From max steal range, target a critter. Hit 5, then quickly hit F1. You will teleport to the critter, completing the CnD as you arrive. Poof, you’re there, it’s hurt and you’re stealthed

If you can play a staff ele with any degree of success outside of zergs, you can absolutely become a good thief.

Mirror Owl.7204:

S/x has been pummeled to the floor, so that dynamic mobility playstyle is out the window. It’s backstabs or bust, looks like.

I don’t play enough S/D to be an expert on it, so I have a question: How critical is that pseudo-stunbreak on IR when fighting any class that isn’t a stun-spamming warrior? I know it’s always useful, but I wonder how often it’s flat-out necessary to compete in a one-vs-one?

You can divine ANet’s design intent by looking at what they did nerf vs what they did not nerf:

- D/D, P/D did not get nerfed. These are premiere single-target specs (though one focuses on burst, and the other on attrition). They still want us to be good at killing single-targets. We will be

- D/P got nerfed. This was a cheesy spec. They don’t like cheesy specs. Nor do most of us

- S/D mobility got nerfed. ANet thinks this was a cheesy ability, a pseudo-stunbreak on a weapon skill. I think most of us disagree, but that was their stated thinking

- Initiative gain got rearranged. They’re trying to open up spec options. They may have caused some collateral damage in doing so (P/P, already weak, probably got weaker due to the Opportunist nerf). But their intent is clear

- The new heal is an attempt to make a venom share/ support spec more viable. Personally, I think it’s a bad idea poorly executed. I like the intent, though. As with the initiative changes, they’re trying to give thieves more options for viable builds (note, they’re doing the exact same thing with elementalists)

As for Hard to Catch (and Shadow Refuge), every class has useless traits, often the residue of design changes in the early game (how about that +bundle damage on Improvisation). Thieves are not different. This is just something ANet hasn’t got round to fixing. Presumably, they will.

Doggie.3184:

They need to nerf our Armor from being so Trenchy. Trenchcoats are OP and restrict movement.

They also encourage misbehavior of various sorts!

Part of me wants to try a 30/30/0/0/10 staff build in full zerker gear. But the other part of me thinks that would not be an elementalist, but a trebuchet with boots (also, a rallybot). I doubt the fun would last long.

I have really enjoyed 0/20/0/30/20 as a balanced all-rounder for WvW group play, and it looks like nothing important will change.

One, my main.

I also play three alts. If I ever feel that they can’t compete in exotics, I’m outta here altogether.

Thief My current main. The gameplay style is action-based, challenging and fun. The thief is a great solo character in WvW or PvE.

Staff Elementalist My favorite alt right now. In groups, especially large groups in WvW, I feel like he contributes more than any other class I could play. Some of the powers are also just fun to use (meteor storm!)

Guardian Specced heal/ tank. He’s blindingly easy to play. Unlike my staff ele, I can play the guard with a beer in one hand and one eye on the TV, and I still never die.

Alts rock!

I think ANet really, really wants us to play Fractals.

Remus.7312:

Also, d/p is only used in this build for perma stealth but thats getting nerfed on the 10th so I’ll suggest not using that after then, just use shortbow instead.

Instead of shortbow, have you considered D/D as an offhand? Deathblossom is nice, especially for a build without ricochet (though shortbow also has AoE tagging covered). The real difference, though, would be Heartseeker mobility. It vastly increases your escapability and overland speed. SB5 has some of this, but Heartseeker is better (clear your target, heartseeker x3 to gain distance, shadow refuge, gone!).

It’s viable. It’s fun. It’s easier to play and more survivable than backstab builds. As others have said, pick Dire or Carrion gear and make sure your setup applies multiple conditions to add damage and cover the bleed stacks.

There are two primary downsides:

1) Your nice condition gear won’t translate well to group-based PvE play. Power/ Crit is the meta there

2) You cannot make full use of the shortbow, which is just an extraordinary weapon for thieves

P/D is getting buffed on 12/10. None of the major nerfs hit this spec, so you’ll have more initiative overall.

Sons.5493:

Oghier.7419:

‘Thieves’ do not lack for condition removal. It’s only non-stealth thieves. Most classes have to spec a certain way if they want heavy, frequent condi-clears, and thieves are no different.

As others have said, this is more an issue with the current condi-heavy meta than it is with our class.

Read carefully:

>Forced to invest into SA

I’ll repeat my point: Almost every class is forced to invest into a particular set of traits if they want frequent clears of multiple conditions. For thieves, that happens to be the SA tree.

The heavy condition meta is the issue. Every class can get some light condi-clears through utilities. Most folks have concluded, however, that they need a lot more clears a lot more often, thus requiring a heavy investment in doing just that. We’re hardly unique in this requirement.

glaphen.5230:

… when everyone else cant even kill a zerker Thief ever.

If you’re going to engage in the debate, consider starting off with a message other than “I am either dishonest or deluded, but here’s what I think…”

jihm.2315:

cause we cant really run anything else than tanky builds,
i tried damage/support build with 2k toughness and 18k health and one backstab reduced my health to the one third ,
back to shield and full toughness cause otherwise wvw is unplayable.
guardians bet is to survive and find a safe spot
thiefs bet is to kill or just hide when he sees more danger

If you’re playing a a tanky support build and running alone (either roaming or just trying to get to your zerg), you should expect to fare poorly in a one-vs-one against someone specced to kill single targets. On the other hand, you’re far more useful in a group or zerg than a thief. It’s just a tradeoff.

My staff elementalist gets wrecked by thieves if they catch him alone. However, once I get back on the commander chip, I will contribute more to my server’s success with the ele than I would with my thief. More bags, too!

babazhook.6805:

It worth taking in an all venoms build.

Why? Are you also under the impression that, if you take all venoms, Improvisation will then reduce venoms?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Mathematically speaking, taking Improvisation over Quick Venoms with at least 10 in Trickery gives a lesser and more flexible cooldown when running full venoms.

With Improvisation, every Steal gives you a 20% chance to recharge your venoms, right? I don’t see how this is an attractive proposition.

If you are going to run a support build, why not pick a class that’s good at it? This thing turns a DPS class into a one trick pony, and it’s not an especially good trick.

Find a way to fit Blasting Staff into your build. After the 10th, it will require only 10 points into Arcane, and the extra radius is great for Lava Font and Meteor Storm against zergs.

Season 2 won’t draw as many PvE players looking for the reward, as they can do better just PvE’ing for another day or two.

Whether you consider that a positive or a negative is up for grabs

Not on purpose.

It may happen anyway. I enjoy WvW, and you tend to rack up points in the normal process of killing folks and taking their stuff. I am not going to focus on achievement hunting, though, when the reward is the same as knocking out a few temples and champs.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

I want someone to quote me ANet employee saying the WvW Rewards chest would be really good and awesome.

True.

But, if they had said “It will be equivalent to two or three days spent in casual PvE,” I think that would have dampened the S1 excitement somewhat.

I feel like I just got socks for Christmas.

This is equivalent to about two or three days of PvE.

Casual PvE.

I think Air is generally fine. A Blind, a Knockback, Swiftness and a Static Field are four useful skills. I would like to see the projectile speed on the autoattack increased, and I wish the knockback were more reliable.

We’ll see. I suspect that fewer, larger hits may be the way to break through that heal without killing yourself. D/D thieves specialize in just that. Not sure I’d want to throw a pistol whip at them, though.

The key takeaway: ANet’s view of thieves is quite different from that of the thief player community. This is either the first step in a long-term vision, as yet obscure to us, or one of the parties has an imperfect understanding of the class.

I believe ANet balances based on TPvP. I also believe that the percentage of the population focused on TPvP is tiny. As most of us view things from the perspective of WvW, Dungeons or overland PvE, confusion ensues.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

That is creative, but where would it be useful? It’s too tanky for sustained damage in PvE (heaps of power, but you crit once every other weapon swap, and you have no crit damage). Also, a build with mediocre burst damage and paltry condition clears is not optimal for for WvW or PvP.

Why suggest this build to someone new to the thief class?

Sanduskel.1850:

Thieves are getting improved with the next patch. Anet said a massive init improvement.

This is misleading. The 33% increase to base initiative regen is massive in isolation, but it is mixed with several serious nerfs. Some specs will have more initiative than today, but others will not benefit. Some will be far less viable.

Overall, the changes help D/D thieves. The base regen buff will outweigh the nerf to Opportunist. I play D/D & SB, so my spec will be better. If I played S/D or P/P, I would be a lot less happy with the patch, and a bit angry at anyone calling it a ‘massive improvement.’

As for D/P, I think nearly the entire thief community accepts that permastealth had to go. It’s all the other nerfs that have folks upset.

Almost all thief power/ precision builds start with 30 points in Critical Strikes. After that, there are two choices for your secondary line:

- Shadow Arts grants easy access to condition clears, steady healing and the ability to reset fights

- Deadly Arts provides more damage

Pick what you need. For WvW, most thieves choose Shadow Arts. For pure PvE, most thieves go with Deadly. For SPvP… I have no idea what people are going to do

‘Thieves’ do not lack for condition removal. It’s only non-stealth thieves. Most classes have to spec a certain way if they want heavy, frequent condi-clears, and thieves are no different.

As others have said, this is more an issue with the current condi-heavy meta than it is with our class.