(edited by Oh Snapalope.1378)
Trust the Jzaku. He solo queued up to ruby with warrior. It’s viable if you know how to play it.
Gunflame is viable. I know 2 people that solo queued all the way up to ruby with it. But pretty much you play a build that requires a lot of skill and brains versing a lot of classes, like necro and rev, that requires no skill or brains right now.
(edited by Oh Snapalope.1378)
Most likely because of the matchmaking system is super dumb for a lot of times, a lot of average to lower tier players simply quit. Even high tier sapphire and ruby games are taking 30 minutes to find sometimes.
So today I noticed probably a lot of people are quitting PvP because the system in place is just so bad right now. The queue times are getting kind of ridiculous. Ruby is sitting at 30 minutes for me right now. Tweak this junk of a system or this season is dead.
Sometimes my ruby queues are like 30 minutes.
The one big issues this would help identify is the rampant unfair matchups. As the current system stands, it’s totally possible to have a team of 500 MMR players vs a team of 2000 MMR players. Numbers are arbitrary but you get a point.
Druid is actually really op though…..The pet taunt bugs out like half of the time and you turn into a free kill because of the bug.
That I wasn’t aware of. I’ll have to triple check but I don’t think I’m utilizing the taunt. I’m mainly focused on protection when dodge rolling, healing around the pet for team support, etc.
I’ll look at that though. Maybe the taunt does need to be looked at.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48bdpd/pvp_can_we_please_talk_about_the_stuck_in_place/
Well documented and reported bug. Taunt is one huge contributor of it.
Druid is actually really op though…..The pet taunt bugs out like half of the time and you turn into a free kill because of the bug.
Even when i was rolling a massive win streak I was kittened as hell about the system. It makes no sense whatsoever.
I mean when I was winning I was still fully aware that the reason for winning at this point doesn’t have to do with skill it has to do with: 1: you’ve been winning so you got tossed with other people who have been winning and tossed against people who probably weren’t. 2: You’ve managed not to lose by a significant enough margin that your MMR exceeded some poorly designed confidence interval and subsequently drops. Which actually means you haven’t hit a game where 4 of your team mates had massively inflated MMR skewing the systems interpretation of your odds of winning.
3: The dev team has not taken an intro stat class, and don’t understand what it actually means to be normally distributed or they wouldn’t keep kittening referencing it like a bunch of coked up toddlers.With this system half the people in diamond this season are just going to be mini-trumps… Convinced it was their skill that brought them where they are and that they must be “the greatest you’ve ever seen”… all of a sudden for no reason.. all the while refusing to accept that the system is designed to pull a ton of people mistakenly up the ranks because MMR IS ESSENTIALLY MEANINGLESS IF YOU ARE TRYING TO TOSS ALL THE POSSIBLY GOOD PLAYERS ON THE SAME FREAKING TEAM WHILE HYPOTHESIS TESTING THOSE RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately a lot of the stompers don’t understand the true reason that they are winning a lot. One fix I think would remedy the situation a lot is if they make it so that you do not lose any pips if there is a huge mismatch in MMR.
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To be honest, the season is salvageable if they tweak the system by making it so that the opposing team’s MMR is taken into consideration as well. The odds of them doing it is very slim though.
Before you comment or reply please read the following paragraph or have full knowledge of the current matchmaking system workings(read the paragraph below if you don’t).
How matchmaking actually works at this moment: The system only considers the MMR of your own teammates but not the opponents. Your opponents are selected from division/pip ratings only. This means a team of 800 MMR players can be facing a team of 2000 MMR players. Grossly uneven matchups will exist because of this is how the system is programmed. Another way of looking at this system is the system can assign the winner and loser before the game starts.
This system has a few implications:
1. For the high skilled players, as in high MMR, you might not be as good as you think if you’ve been stomping teams. Frankly your winrate should be near flawless as you probably encountered a lot of lower MMR based teams while climbing divisions and not matched up against players of similar skill as you.
2. For the lower skilled players, as in low MMR, frankly some of the losses you can’t really do much about. Even if you played your hearts out and and tried your best, but the game could be decided from the start that you are going to lose.
3. The reason of this system is based on the fact that time will sort everyone out into correct division and pip ratings. For example, over time, the 800 MMR players will stay in a lower division and will only be matched up against other 800 MMR players as all the higher MMR players will have climbed on. However will time actually do its job? Probably not! I’ll explain at the end of this post.
The 1% ruining the 99% argument:
Below is what a very high MMR player have said about this system:
Hi all. I’m Zuko. I play tempest for Best Team North Africa, which is currently invited to participate in the Challenger Cup to qualify for Pro-League.
So the goal of this new matchmaking is to make the league system more skill-based. So if you have high mmr (the game thinks ur good) you will progress faster and easier. If you have low mmr (game thinks ur bad) you might have incredible difficulty getting out of amber. How it works is you get matched with players on ur team of similar mmr. The opposing team has team mates of a similar mmr on it. However, your teams average mmr and the enemy teams mmr can be vastly different. If you are one of the players in the top 1% then you have a 99% chance to face an enemy team with lower skill than you. Likewise if you are in the bottom 50% you have a 50% chance to fight people much better than you.
The idea is that the good players will progress to higher divisions quicker and leave only the bad to average players in the lower divisions. Then the average players will advance leaving only the bad players. So as the season goes on your matches should start becoming more balanced, and divisions will actually represent skill instead of time spent playing like last season.
Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.
This is the general consensus of the people who are playing PvP right now. It is simply not fun to be either full on stomping a team or be fully stomped by a team. I much prefer to have a 50/50 chance of winning the game than a system predetermining that I should win or lose. Another thing is I personally don’t enjoy stomping teams, there is no fun to be had. What fun is there to face opponents that have no chance of fighting back? Absolutely none! I’m about to hit ruby and have done a fair share of stomps and I really disliked them and felt gross after the games. The bottom line is having a system determining whether you should win or lose is simply not fair and not fun. But we still have time on our side to sort out all the divisions right?
The question of time:
There is the question of whether we actually will have enough time for this system to sort everybody out before the end of the season. So far one week in, and the divisions are very far from balancing out. At this rate, just a crude guess, it will probably take at least another 2 weeks for the players to see some improvements in match quality. However 2 weeks might not even be enough because of the issue of of high MMR players moving up at different rates. For example, comparing a high MMR player who only plays 5 games per day to an equally high MMR player who plays 50 games a day. The latter player will move up faster while the other player move up slower and stay in the lower divisions longer. Also what if a bunch of high MMR players started playing late in the season? That will cause more deviations as well. Now thinking about it, this system is fully fair and fully functional if and only if everyone that plays PvP plays for the same amount of time per day and week, and also if they all play at the exact same time. Now is that possible?
tl;dr expect really bad matchups and unfair games until the season is over
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Believe it or not I want the old diamond skin eles back.
I laughed so hard at the bunny ears. You are the best.
It happens a lot to ranger pet taunts. I have /dance on copy paste.
Famster I don’t think you know how the system actually works….. Just read up my post.
Maybe it will get better, but when? The season is not infinite. How long will we have horrible gaming experience? will we ever get to the point when we can play in equial teams in this season?
It won’t get better. For the reason I explained in my post above that got buried by his walls of text, high skilled players move up at different speeds due to having different play times or having other things to do in the game. Expect garbage quality games until the end of the season. Their system actually works out perfectly and will achieve perfect balance if and only if everyone that plays PvP play for the same amount of time per day/week/month and at the same time too. As you know that’s not possible so, the answer is most likely we will get terrible games all season.
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I think some people still don’t know how the matchmaking system works right now. So I’ll explain it again for the 10000000th time.
Quoted from their season 2 post:
“we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.”
Notice it never says it will consider the MMR of all 10 matched players, instead it just considers your own team.
The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
It’s really a really weird and flawed system if it the matchmaking process never considers the MMR of your opponents. Also in theory, this system will balance itself out over time as eventually the low MMR players will be the only ones in that pip/division search range so you will get even matches. The real question is….How long will that take? Not to mention the time it takes for the thing to balance out will result in really garbage quality games that no one enjoys. Is enduring this time period of garbage quality games worth it? In my opinion, no…… Just give us season 1 style with improved smurfing and anti-stack measures.
Now after thinking about it for a day on the weekend, I noticed another fatal flaw about their system. The speed of which the higher skilled players move up is not the same. This is due to playtime and other things to do in the game. This system works perfectly assuming everyone has the same playtime per day/week which is not the case. Due to higher MMR players leaving at different times, lopsided stomps happen for longer period of time and pretty much makes this thing impossible to balance out over a reasonable period of time.
The reason for this has been explained in a dozen threads now. The general consensus is let the kitten league sort out. We KNEW this is what would happen. Nearly every PvPer that asked for exactly for this system knew this would happen. The issue is alot of those people didn’t realize where there skill level actually was. Now that were being partnered by tier instead of by Win/Loss ratio people are getting harsh wakeup calls.
Let the max tier people get where they need to go. It won’t take the much longer to spread out. But making rage posts cussing out Anet for giving us EXACTLY what the vocal portion of our community asked for is not exactly bright…nor is it fair to Arenanet.
You actually know the biggest problem with the system balancing out at a reasonable time right? People play for different amount of time. That means some high skilled players move on slower which really screws up the whole idea of the system being auto balancing at a reasonable amount of time. This system will work perfectly if you assume everyone that plays this game plays for exactly like 5 hours a day or something.
Now after thinking about it for a day on the weekend, I noticed another fatal flaw about their system. The speed of which the higher skilled players move up is not the same. This is due to playtime and other things to do in the game. This system works perfectly assuming everyone has the same playtime which is not the case. Due to higher MMR players leaving at different times, lopsided stomps happen for longer period of time and pretty much makes this thing impossible to balance out over a reasonable period of time.
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Just read my post earlier… It explains why we are getting lopsided games. I don’t get why some people think the system is fair at all.
Hello. I just want to give you people the opinion of someone who stopped playing at the end of season 1 and started playing again yesterday, at night. I’m a solo player, and I’ve played 16 ranked games so far and won all of them easily (only 1 of them was challenging). New matchmaking allow good/excellent players to rank up very fast, even tho it is a bit boring. I mean, I don’t get any challenging ennemies, but at least I have good hopes that after 20 or 30 more wins I’ll get to interesting games.
To all of those who complain about “lose streaks” : It may (may is the key word here) be a l2p issue, don’t you think ? since the golden season of the golden bunker meta is gone, the old bunker players have to learn the game…
Only my opinion, tho. And yes, climbing is very easy compared to last season. Matchmaking is fair, if i’m emerald i play with/against emeralds, so I carry and win. Repeat the process until you get where you belong.Oh, one good thing : the amount of salt amoung players appeared to have decreased significantly. I often have some cool talks with the guys i stomped during the whole game (the 2 players trying to get me out of their close node but kept dying…). Notice the thief in chat (attachments), it’s really a good feeling compared to last season
(btw i don’t know how to prove that i’m not a liar, i can’t see more than 10 matches in history, 16/0 atm, stop being salty about anet & enjoy the game ? peace)
Read my post earlier. Sometimes people that get stomped, it isn’t their fault as the game puts them in an almost guaranteed lose game. If you read what I posted earlier, no way in hell is the matchmaking fair right now. You can’t call a team of 5 low skilled players vs. 5 high skilled players a fair fight.
2 months seasons are definitely not long enough to balance the system. If it takes 2 weeks thats already 25% of the season wasted.
This is actually what my doubt is. I really doubt if 2 months is actually enough time to sort everyone out.
I think some people still don’t know how the matchmaking system works right now. So I’ll explain it again for the 100th time.
Quoted from their season 2 post:
“we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.”
Notice it never says it will consider the MMR of all 10 matched players, instead it just considers your own team.
The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
It’s really a really weird and flawed system if it the matchmaking process never considers the MMR of your opponents. Also in theory, this system will balance itself out over time as eventually the low MMR players will be the only ones in that pip/division search range so you will get even matches. The real question is….How long will that take? Not to mention the time it takes for the thing to balance out will result in really garbage quality games that no one enjoys. Is enduring this time period of garbage quality games worth it? In my opinion, no…… Just give us season 1 style with improved smurfing and anti-stack measures.
The problem with this system is there are too much variances and random variables that probably won’t get balanced out over time. Also I don’t think making the first few weeks to first month unplayable is a really good way of doing this.
I prefer S1 system with anti smurfing/stacking and anti tanking mmr better.
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Scrappers are a bit ridic right now that’s the general consensus. Also anything with taunts too as taunt bugs you out half of the time.
Currently I climbed to sapphire really really quick. On the way there I would say about 10% of my games are even games, while the other 90% are full on stomps or full on getting stomped. This is seriously not fun for anybody. I’m really leaning towards this system being not worth it if we are forced to endure really broken matches for a prolong period of time.
The thing with this system is it will balance out in the end. At a certain time the lower MMR players will face eachother because they are the only people within the pip/division search range. HOWEVER this might take a decent chunk of time to balance out. If it takes too long to calibrate everyone, then this system is totally not worth it because you will spend way too much time playing garbage quality games.
I still prefer a balanced team vs balanced team setup over this current setup.
I’ll explain the lopsided games.
“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range."
This is what they said how the season 2 MM system will work.
So actually to clarify something and please correct me if I’m misreading. The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
The result is you will never get a balanced team vs. balanced team like a team of 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players vs. 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players.
But with all said, I prefer the balanced team vs balanced team setup more.
The thing is eventually the teams will end up balanced. Or atleast so close it won’t matter. As different teams will progress at different rates. The 800mmr people SHOULD start fighting other 800mmr (or close) becuase they will be the only ones in range.
Atleast thats how I have understood it.
Eventually it will work out yes you are correct. As the 800 MMR people will be the only ones in the suitable division range so 800 MMR vs 800 MMR games will happen. The question is how long will that take though and if it takes too long is this system worth it as you’ll be playing lopsided games for a while. Another thing I’m wondering about is the decreasing player population amplifying this as well.
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I’ll explain the lopsided games.
“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range."
This is what they said how the season 2 MM system will work.
So actually to clarify something and please correct me if I’m misreading. The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
The result is you will never get a balanced team vs. balanced team like a team of 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players vs. 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players.
But with all said, I prefer the balanced team vs balanced team setup more.
seems like everyone forgot what Gaile said a month ago.
“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.
While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.
Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."
tl; dr
noobs will get placed together with noobs and get rekted
pros will get placed together with pros and rekt noobsstop complaining about the match making.
i lost 5 games in a row, i’m not complaining.the better players will graduate from amber faster then the rest of us can duke it out at one another until we all graduate from amber.
So actually to clarify something and please correct me if I’m misreading. The way the system currently works is it only considers MMR on your own team and not the full 10 players. So let’s say there’s 10 people queuing within an acceptable division range, 5 players are around 800 MMR and the other 5 are around 1000 MMR. Due to the fact that the system only considers making a team of 5 of similar MMR players at a time, the 5 800 MMR players will be put on one team and the 5 1000 MMR players will be on the other team. So what you get is high skilled players on 1 team and less skilled players on the other. Of course the result is the 800 MMR team getting stomped.
The result is you will never get a balanced team vs. balanced team like a team of 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players vs. 2 1500 MMR players + 3 800 MMR players.
I got saphire quite fast. After saphire I would say only about 10% of my games are legit good games, as in close matches where both teams are about equally skilled. The other 90% is either stomps or getting stomped. Something is weird.
Erg. We ate nerf. Happy now?
Some of the bigger issues remains un-nerfed.
How to fix:
Split PvP/WvW/PvE
It’s more of the direct counter to condicancer was nerfed to oblivion (diamond skin). There isn’t really nothing to curb them right now.
I was in a Sab PuG the other day organized by this druid. He had eternal. Well we get the full group and we start asking him how he wants stuff organized and he wont really tell us. So we start figuring it out on our own. He then starts telling us that we only need one person for canons. To my knowledge, you need at least 2. Unless there is some strategy I am not aware of. He insisted that it could be done with only one person.
We finally get the group fully set and ready to pull. He then said he was hung over and probably didn’t have it in him. We asked if he would just give it a couple tries since it had taken us about 30 minutes to get a mostly random PuG together. We do, he had NO idea what he is doing. Flak is everywhere on the group. We are asking him on TS to go out. He doesn’t. Next run, same thing. This guy didn’t have a clue what he was doing. He left the group after that run. It took a little bit but we ended up beating Sabetha after a couple personnel changes and about an hour. Not bad for a random PuG where 3 or 4 had never killed or only killed once.
Similar story on Gorseval. Had a tempest who has 30k AP and eternal. I was the other tempest and was urgently requesting help clearing orbs. When the ghosts spawned, my side was fully clear while the otherside was covered in blue goo. Happened about 4 times in a row so I looked at what else he’s doing and I saw him overload in weakness aura and getting killed by it. Got the kill as soon as he was replaced. This happened 1.5 weeks ago.
thats the reason, why u should ask boss/class specific questions.
for example: u found a rev, tell him he is in the chrono group and ask him what he has to do.
only cause someone has x- insights doesnt mean he is a good player (same to ap)
The point of this is it shouldn’t be even happening at all. People that sell raids are contributing to this whole thing. I had people with 163 mastery points and 25k+AP (meaning they have raid kills) joining my team asking me what legendary insights are.
Some of the catches on the first day of reset this week:
-29k AP 163 mastery point asking what insights are
-30k AP 163 mastery ele not knowing what orb clear means
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Just a definition of what a fake is: Someone who bought raid kills/eternal for a lot of money and is trying to pug raids. As you know since they bought kills, they have absolutely no idea how each fight works and proceed to feed deaths over and over to drag the team down. The reason I think people do this is because after buying 1 full clear, they realize multiple kills are needed to complete the armor collection.
I’m just asking because last week I had to kick 3 people who were fakes, and they were easy to spot too. One person even admitted it and said sorry for dragging down the team. Anyways have you guys encountered this too?
Killed something every week, started doing full clears after like week 9. Not a single ascended box or unique drop. Got tons of duplicate minipets though.
Also not to mention a lot of people are buying eternal titles and think they are hot stuff because they bought kills. They then try to pug and ruin other people’s runs because they actually have no idea how the fights work since they bought the kills. It’s like they don’t want people to play their content.
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sini/viper berserker works.
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/aC0tr9v.jpg
In my opinion part of the game is gearing for a variety of play styles. They tried to bury the one gear type meta and make other types of gear more viable. I think the intention is good but it’s not idealy implemented.
Berserker has uses still. Some bosses and maps has bad targets for condi such as dredge.
The funny thing all the classes that pugs will kick in “elitist runs” before expansion, like necro and ranger, are the top tier picks now. It’s retribution in a way I guess?
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A lot of people were smart enough to see that this is coming miles away that anet want to bury the berserker meta into the ground and prepared more armor sets for this before the expansion. Some people didn’t I guess.
Just make more sets. When raids come out, condi, tanking, healing will have a role. Not a bad idea to start hoarding multiple gear sets. The druid is just more for general sustain on 90+ when agony in tight corridors prevent any sort of healing. It’s not needed but can make thing s a lot easier. I’ve seen druids carry people on 90+ just by keeping the team alive.
Useful things to take once you get past 80.
Full healing power druids: Sustain is very useful on some instances past 90
Full nomads tank/heal guard: Very useful for tanking certain encounters
Sini/Viper: Rangers, necros, engis very useful to take. Burn warriors and guards w ork very well too.
Do not run berserker if you are playing a damage output role. If you run berserker past 80 get your head checked. Direct damage falls off so hard because of toughness scaling. Condi > berserker but I still see people asking for berserker only past 90. Berserker = almost kick worthy once you get past 80 or so.
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Don’t attune your rings. After attuning your rings turns into a random different ring in terms of stats and name. My purge signet turned into a crystalline band.
I have to say, CDBL’s garrison has been like fort Knox since the weekend. I tried to siege 3 times. Never managed even get to inner. The only close one was when your map zerg went to try take your Bay back. However as soon as we were done with the outer, you guys ditched bay and came back to wipe us.
Not counting the double waves, garrison was held against 11 DB pushes.
Who was there when CD held off a 5 golem push at Yaks BL bay twice in the early morning. That was epic.
Fort Aspenwood is trying right now. Would appreciate it if people could guest over and help.
The MF guy took the right path because he knows that the party kills stuff fast enough already, and he doesn’t feel insecure about his own performance.
In the words of a bandit: “YOU’RE KIDDING ME RIGHT?”