Guild Wars 2

Kain Francois.4328:

Honestly, I don’t understand the complaints with voice acting besides Trahearne. They’re all pretty exceptional and get the job done well, with notable praise to Zojja and ALL Male Sylvari! Their enthusiastic, adventurous, yet cute, innocent voice really stands out, making them a pleasure to listen to! I also have to give some praise to various Asura characters such as Magg.

However, a part of me misses the cheesy voice of Master Togo…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8gHHFWOjHQ

Also, for Detha’s emphasis on build, isn’t she supposed to be a sarcastic character?

Of COURSE Zojja is good, she’s voiced by FELICIA DAY. fanboi

On the accent note, I think that there is something of a necessity for less diversity at this point, since we’re only in the continent of Tyria (aka less population of “Asian” accented characters than Cantha, and less… mid-east? African? accented characters than Elona). That being said, there is still a lot that can be done. I haven’t seen a single character with an American Southern accent, which I think could be awesome if done well. I’d also like to hear more Scottish, just by personal preference.

RF doesn’t root you, for everyone who still thinks that.

I wonder if they realize that nerfing AoE instead of touching all the bugs, glitches, and exploits that players are actually bothered by is like adding the Lost Shores update instead of fixing all the things wrong with existing content. It just introduces more problems, pisses off your players, and requires more patches to fix later.

For a supposedly “structured” PvP, I’ve found many sPvP tournaments to be easily abused/manipulated, and not entirely fair as far as teams and balance. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen players repeatedly jump ship as soon as the team is one person up to group up with the winning team, and new players coming into a match give a significant boost to whatever team they join. In my opinion, these are easily fixable flaws, and this is what I suggest:

1) Remove the ability to jump teams during a match. There is no reason for this to exist, and all it does is allow for team exploitation and encourage deserting your starting team for whoever is ahead.

2) Only allow players to join games in PAIRS. It’s really not that hard to assign players to matches in pairs, or to queue them up for a match until there is another player to put them in with. This way, no team gets a sudden advantage due to incoming players.

Please add Shield to the guardian section, in addition to AoE prot you get a knockback/projectile absorb/AoE heal, and can even trait for shorter cooldowns on them.

Think we can all agree this is settled? Mod wanna close this one?

Former music major, here to help.

First of all, “scales” is somewhat misleading, as what most people refer to as “major” or “minor” scales (and think that’s all there is) are actually just two of seven “modes”. Your typical major scale (C to C on the white notes of a piano) is called the Ionian mode. The minor scale (A to A on the white notes of a piano) is called the Aeolian mode. If Penatbater is correct, the bells would be set up on an Aeolian mode, which they were not; while I didn’t pay it much notice to figure out exactly which mode, off of memory I’d say that Alcopaul is correct, and the bell is using a mode running from D to D on the white notes of a piano. This is called the Dorian mode, and is essentially a minor scale with a raised sixth scale degree, meaning that the typical chord progressions in that key include a major IV chord rather than a minor iv chord. It’s commonly used in Celtic and other folk music and is one of the better known modes. I’ll go log in right now and check the bells to ensure I’ve got all that right, but I think it is indeed the Dorian mode.

EDIT: Tested, Dorian is correct. If anyone has further questions about this, feel free to ask me; might as well put 4 otherwise wasted semesters of Music Theory to use.

They’re using the same Wintersday music from GW1. Come on Anet, can’t you make a AAA MMO without rehashing the same old overused—-

Ok, no, I can’t even say that sarcastically. Was glad it made a comeback, still my favorite music ever.

Here’s an answer you may not expect:

Necromancers. All things being equal, at level 80, they are objectively the most durable class in the game. The Guardian runs a close second, but the Necro’s ability to survive brutal onslaught is unparalleled. On top of that (here I can only speak for building Power/Crit and running wells) they hit like a semi-truck full of yellow-cake uranium. Leveling starts off a little fragile as with all clothies, but once you hit 10, you can do whatever you want.

Nutbuter.3714:

Well thats funny, I was pretty much set on Human for race choice. So in general, like Regizer said, the higher ranked WvW servers are more populated?

My personal hunch on server populations is that you’ll want one that’s not too full. I’d go for High, but not Very High or Full; since the latter are harder to get into, more players get funneled into the low-pop servers, meaning that the ratio of new players to established players will be in your favor for finding people in the newbie areas.

Reaver.9256:

Orion.7264:

Fay’s got a point, it does depend on server and I can only speak for Stormbluff Isle.

I’m also on stormbluff and I can assure you that there’s plenty of people in the lower lvl areas. The server is very busy. Even in the lvl 1 zones I almost always have multiple people doing every event.

You must be either lucky, or I’m very unlucky. I’ve been bouncing around through charr, human, and norn starting areas on a couple new characters on SBI and have only seen a couple other people. I end up soloing a lot of events.

I have to say that after the Lost Shores patch, I’ve noticed a pretty sizable activity decline. Less people in starting areas, less people in WvW (leading to our drop from #1 to #3), less people running dungeons; I’m hoping Wintersday brings some people back, and that the fix for Fractals and Ascended gear acquisition rolls out soon. Seems to me that a lot of players got burnt out over frustrations with the karka event and having to do one particular activity to get their new gear tier.

Fay’s got a point, it does depend on server and I can only speak for Stormbluff Isle.

As an established player who’s been leveling a few alts:

The newbie areas are ghost towns. Sorry. :/

He didn’t say he didn’t have EotN, just that he didn’t have the CE of it because there wasn’t one. If you do have it, Kyosji, you can see what you get by going to hom.guildwars2.com. If you haven’t brought your characters into the Hall of Monuments in the Eye of the North expansion, you’ll have to do that. You can dedicate minipets, place armor and weapon statues, unlock title statues, etc based on what you’ve achieved during your 600 hours. Those will earn you points that will determine your level of reward in GW2.

Owning the CE’s of the GW1 game/expansions got you what they got you in GW1. As far as Hall of Monuments rewards (and GWAMM), these rewards paid forward into GW2 because they were a way to keep players interested in playing GW1 and rewarding the time invested in those games.

Basically: Stuff you bought =/= rewarded in GW2.

Stuff you played for = rewarded in GW2.

Thanks! I thought it might be, based on your OP. I maintain that you would probably like the Honor of the Waves armor though; I’d post a pic but I don’t have the set finished yet. :/

I think it looks classy. Simple is the new “SCANTILYCLADMAIDENWITHFLAMINGSWORDVANQUISINGOVERLYMUSCLEDFOESPEWINGRAINBOWACIDAGAINSTHEBROODINGSUNSETSTORMINGSKY”

Here ya go. Sorry for angle, nighttime; can’t zoom on Mac client so had to move the camera to the ground to get close. :P

Yeah, lemme see if I can figure it out real quick. It won’t be the best quality because I’m on my Mac atm, and Mac client graphics don’t go as high…

Feirlista Xv.1425:

Sorolyr.4035:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/wizard-promo/

So, if you buy the game now you get a wizard hat. Do the people who already own the game get a wizard hat?

“NO” go to the grocery store and ask for your free toy out of a box of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies see what the answer will be!

Since you keep making this flawed and ignorant argument that in no way applies to the situation at hand, I’ll fix it for you (free of charge! I usually charge).

You go to a grocery store that you have been supporting since it opened. You’re part of the grocery store club; let’s call the store Vons. Because you’re a Vons Club member, you get discounts and special deals!

Vons does a promotion. Now, people who become a club member get even BETTER deals and discounts! You’re already a club member, but you don’t get them because you’re already a club member. Only people who NOW become a club member get those deals. You can’t upgrade, and the only way to join the club and get the better deals is to return everything you’ve bought from the store with no refund and then rejoin.

ftfy

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

@ MasterOfMistakes

^^ I still havn’t showed you my Elementalist and Mesmer.
hehe.

@ Orion

I find people who limit themselves to “Healing/supporting” while having access to lots of different skills for Damage/Control/Support are people who are gimping themselves and their capabilities when they could be even more benifitial in contributing in other ways.

I agree with your quote:
“In the end your skill bar is what defines what you can do. "

All skills are useful for different situations. I find your example interesting with the “Finishers”. Nice job going indepth with it. =)

I agree with you about exclusive focus on a particular role. Personally, I find it’s quite viable to focus on a particular role, while also maintaining at least average ability in the other two. It’s when you just throw everything towards “pure d33pz” or “ep1c he4lz” and ignoring anything else that you run into trouble. I figured this out during the BWE’s when I tried to run a total support guard; now as a hybrid, I can do just as well supporting my party, while also contributing nicely to damage and a little control (aside from some pulls, guards don’t have a ton of control). Essentially, every character has to contribute in some way to all three combat components, but any character can choose to focus one; there are diminishing (and even negative) returns on focusing past a certain point, though.

Hey, I’m with you there. I spent decent money in GW1 on costumes, and those were like $15 each. As long as store-bought skins are visually distinct from in-game acquired skins, I think everyone would be happy with more and better stuff available.

Feirlista Xv.1425:

You guys need to think of it this way, you go to the grocery store and buy a box of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies, you take it home and for a week you eat your Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies for breakfast. Then you run out of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies, so you return to the store to get another box of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies and you notice a free toy is inside the box of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies. Now are you going to go up to a clerk at the store and demand that he rip open a box of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies and give you a free toy because you already bought a box Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies last week and didn’t get a free toy. No you will probably buy two boxes of Toasty Oaty Winky Dinkies. They put free crap in serial boxes to get you to buy more serial or to entice people to try their product. It’s the same way with computer games.

Again, refer to my post above and stop making irrelevant arguments involving material goods.

Itk: I know how you feel about Guardian skins; I was hard-pressed to come up with a good set for mine as well. Honor of the Waves has a great heavy armor aesthetic that’s similar to the t3 cultural; what I ended up doing was embracing my “fiery wrath” side. Citadel of Flame gloves, pauldrons, and chest with draconic leggings and boots, dyed celestial and illumination. Looks “good guy” and awesome at the same time.

ensoriki.5789:

All this whining for a hat?
People calling it a slap in the face?
Amazed at the entitlement.

Truth be told like the BMP’s in GW1 this will probably come down the gemstore somewhere in the possibly distant future.
People who bought PS3’s at launch didn’t get a refund everytime there was a price drop lol. I guess Anet is takie to be such pushovers that you can harass them into anything.

Yeah, it’s AMAZING how people feel entitled to what they payed for. GUYS, you are PRIVILEGED that Anet LETS YOU play their game, and whatever they give you along with that is just bonus. This isn’t about you, you’re not entitled to anything, Anet is entitled to your cash and they don’t need your grief.

Players also need to learn how to interact effectively with their team. Different builds will be more or less effective depending on whether you’re solo, with a buddy, in a party, in a zerg, etc. Someone above alluded to the complexity of the combat system with combos, and I have to agree with that. Some skills that seem weak in solo play are incredibly effective in groups; on my necro, playing with wells (TONS of nice combo fields) has taught me just how powerful a well-placed field can be in a group setting. Well of Darkness pulses for five seconds, applies blind on each pulse (and chill, and lifesteal if you’re so traited). In solo play, it’s an ok skill; if you’re balling stuff up and killing lots of mobs at once, it’s decent, but personally I’ve found throwing in BiP instead and utilizing my other wells to be more effective. But in group play, here’s what it turns into:

Allies firing projectiles through it steal life. Extra damage, and a little party-wide heal.

Blast finishers apply AoE blind. Sucks up the damage, especially from hard-hitting foes.

Leap finishers blind single targets.

Whirl finishers throw out tons of lifesteal projectiles. Extra damage, and healing.

So this one skill just went from a “meh” solo skill to a VERY strong party support skill, just by the addition of other party members and their actions. With all the blind and lifesteal, a well-placed Well of Darkness in a dungeon has completely mitigated incoming damage from mobs and provided some nice healing for party members for its duration many a time for me. Mass spawn of gravelings threatening to wipe your party? Well of Darkness. Congrats, you’re all untouchable and they’re all dead.

Anyway, went a little more in-depth than I intended with that, but that’s ONE SKILL. Think of all the fields available, and all the finishers, and all the ways that a player’s build can be adjusted between solo and group play. And a lot of players don’t pay much attention to the fact that they can change their build on the fly! Traits are locked in their respective values, of course, but even for the same trait numbers, a plethora of different builds are available. Switch out your Major Traits, weapons, and utilities in between fights and you can go from DPS focused to Condition/Debuff focused to Support/Buff focused. I can not only play a number of different roles on one character, I can play many of them within the space of one instance.

A lot of the problem comes from players coming from games where your character is “self-contained”. Yes, you might be a healer, and you might help your party that way, but in the end your skill bar is what defines what you can do. GW2 is the first game I’ve personally played with such a massive increase in effectiveness by utilizing cross-player combos and mechanics. As a Guardian, the minor trait that recharges Justice on a kill is… “meh” for solo play. But throw in four other players and some trash mobs, and you have an AoE flame-spamming machine of burning death. I guess what I’m saying is, “Ask not what your character can do for you; ask what everyone else’s character can do for you too.” Players compound each others’ power just by coincidentally interacting with skills. Imagine the potential for power if it was planned and coordinated.

3) “You purchased early, so you got all the other cool stuff, this is for them”. Humorous that this argument runs completely contrary to your exclusivity arguments. So, new players are entitled to exclusive stuff because they missed out on our exclusive stuff? And they’re entitled to get it for free? Wasn’t that the point of us paying extra and buying early, to get that stuff? Why is it now the justification for missing out on the new stuff? If this is going to be the policy moving forward, please notify us now of all the plans you have for future implementations, so I can select the package I want, rather than getting screwed out of what I’m being led to believe I’m paying for. We payed early, we payed extra, and by that YES we ARE entitled to having cool stuff that the new people don’t get. They come late, pay less; no, they are NOT entitled to getting cool stuff that we cannot possibly obtain because we supported the company more. If that doesn’t make sense to you, I feel really bad for your math and science teachers. Again, I want to reiterate that no one loses anything by NOT punishing the original purchasers of the DDE and CE packages. There is a difference between a sense of entitlement, and a false sense of entitlement; if I buy a house, I am entitled to live in the house. If my parents buy a house, I am not entitled to live in the house. If I pay extra, and pay early, for exclusive content to a game, I am entitled to that content. I am entitled to NOT be screwed out of future content by purchasing early. I don’t know how anyone thinks that it’s acceptable practice to make items unobtainable to players simply because they actually supported the game more buy paying extra and paying sooner. To make a metaphor that actually applies to the situation (as opposed to all your fallacies involving material goods), let’s say we have a country club; the club opens, and the first people to pay for a membership get cool stuff! Have a hat, have free drinks on Saturdays, whatever. Pay for the VIP membership now and you get even more cool stuff and access to the VIP room! Then a few months later, the NEW VIP package comes out, and those VIP’s get more stuff, better stuff, and stuff you can’t have because you already have the VIP package and aren’t allowed to upgrade. It also costs less. Does anyone fail to see how punishing the customers who purchase early and pay more is a bad business practice? Why should anyone buy the game now, when it means they’ll get screwed out of all the stuff they could get in a few months for less money? Why shouldn’t I just wait to buy until the game is completely free and comes with a full set of Ascended gear and a level 80 character? If I buy now, I won’t be ABLE to get anything the people who buy LATER will get.

This is the issue, for those of you who seem challenged: It’s not that there’s a promotion and players who come now are getting cool stuff. It’s not even that the DDE costs less now than it did originally. It’s that the cool stuff is UNOBTAINABLE to those of us who have played since the beginning and paid more, SIMPLY BECAUSE we have played since the beginning and paid more. When you exclude customers for being loyal and investing more, IT’S A BAD IDEA.

One of many bad ideas implemented by Anet recently.

Here’s the thing:

1) Exclusivity argument: This goes in favor of the “old” customers, believe it or not. We all purchased the DDE or Collector’s under this “exclusivity” concept; now, not only are the exclusive items we paid for being offered free, but new “exclusive” items are being offered as well, EXCLUDING the original “exclusive” market. This is actually backwards to how exclusivity works; as someone stated earlier, it’s an incentive to buy sooner rather than later, or you will miss out. What Anet is doing is encouraging people to buy later rather than sooner, or they will get ripped off AND miss out. This is part of what makes it a bad business decision. Awarding the hat retroactively to players who purchased DDE and CE costs them nothing, keeps old players happy, and maintains the exclusivity moving forward; if this is a one-time offer, it’s STILL exclusive to people who don’t buy now, while not excluding those who already payed for exclusivity AND jumped on the bandwagon early and have been supporting the game. Common sense, guys.

2) Whatever you want to call the argument that you have all been relating to real-world businesses. The difference between promotional offers involving material goods, and promotional offers involving digital goods, is that material goods have production and distribution costs. It makes no business sense to distribute promotional material goods to long-term customers, because it would cost the company more money than it would make. The hats, on the other hand, cost nothing to “produce” or “distribute”, and it’s far more cost effective to satisfy your existing customers while also appealing to new customers than to try and rake in more customers than you lose. Again, the promotion loses no effectiveness by this implementation; those who purchase the DDE now STILL get it $20 cheaper than those who bought early, those who purchased early don’t get screwed out of the full package, and those who do not purchase the DDE during the promotion miss out on the hat. This is why FORWARD-MOVING exclusivity functions, whereas BACKWARD-MOVING exclusivity just loses customer loyalty. The longer you are with us, the less cool stuff you get? Way to encourage me to get in on the promotional offers of other games and providers so I can feel like a cool kid, rather than remaining loyal so I can miss out on the new stuff.

rgrwng.4072:

why does it take 1300 Fractal tokens for a back piece? can’t i just buy one from the armor merchant (not counting the merchant that has them, already)? i would pay up to 5 gold for one, just saying… i currently have 20 tokens, and was super excited, until i looked at the selection of items i could get.

Thanks to all the groups i had that were so patient with me!

Those are just the exotic ones, which have no bearing on the Ascended ones. For the Ascended, you need 300 globs of Ectoplasm, 6 Vials of mist essence, 250 of a t6 material, and some other assorted skill-point items.

Darx.9842:

Do you think this is going to be the only way to obtain ascended gear?

Hell no.

This is the way to obtain back armor and rings. I’m sure there will be entirely new ways to obtain the other gear.

Yep. Except for the dev post stating that Ascended weapons will ALL be “dropped in higher levels of the Fractals dungeon”.

Yeah, really feeling that diverse approach to gear acquisition.

Ditton.3149:

slazzy.7309:

You want depressing? Try a little Norma Jean:

“And it seems to me that you caused a grind,
like a fiercely-blowing wind…

Never knowing who you promised,
when the manifesto set in…

And I would have liked to gain cap
before Ascended hit…

Your promise burned out long before…
but my dreaming never did"

This is getting ridiculously old. We get it..many people dont like it, its becoming less feedback and more incessant whining.

Your incessant complaints about the opinions of others are incessant whining. At least what we say has relevance to the game and the parts we believe need changing (or really, DIDN’T need changing to begin with but were changed anyway). The reason it keeps dragging on is because we get no response whatsoever. If you’re tired of hearing it, feel free to encourage Anet to RESPOND to their playerbase about the biggest issue since the launch of the game.

Only the Vial drop is RNG. The recipe works every time.

mrstealth.6701:

juno.1840:

In GW1 nobody asked about what gear you had (although it would be nice to know if a player was toting three superior runes since they would be incredibly glassy).

However GW1 players DID ask you to link your skillbar — rightfully so since very specific build combinations were needed to complete some content. Unfortunately that was a side effect of the content design imo.

When a game has gear that “gates” your content progression, your doing the same thing — forcing players to validate their setup by linking their gear. There’s no other way around the limitation in game design.

Asking to “ping your build” was pretty much standard for pugs in GW1, but the requiring certain builds was a player-invented concept. It really got started with the “wiki culture” of players following the guides on various wikis (using guides is fine) and getting the idea that the builds listed there were the -only- builds that would ever work (far from the truth). It made players stop thinking about builds, and how to judge whether a build was viable for themselves. They would simply assume that if your build wasn’t exactly as listed in the “Dummies Guide to the Underworld”, it would never work.

I bring this up because Agony and Infusions give a more simplified means of bringing about the same mentality, and even justifying it. Players will eventually (I’m guessing sooner rather than later) come up with what is commonly seen as the “required amount of agony resistance” to complete X level of fractal. This, of course, will be well beyond what is actually required to complete it, and more into the realm of an amount of infusions that aim to trivialize the agony present in that level. We know that infusions are intended to be required beyond certain levels, but players will realize using an overkill of infusions is better/easier than trying to deal with agony through healing skills/better play tactics.

The difference between these two similar sitations in GW and GW2, is that using a higher-than-required amount of infusion/resist is actually mathematically better. There is no option of “this will work better”, because the infusions are an absolute requirement. Even the “must use” builds in GW1 got replaced over time as faster/easier/more reliable ones were found, and you had a chance of finding open-minded players that would use their brains and try other builds. With agony and infusions, it’s an absolute, they are 100% required, and having more of them is absolutely better.

I always asked people to ping when they grouped with me, but not because I wanted specific builds that I believed were required. I did it for two reasons:

1) Every once in awhile, you have a player that has no idea what they’re doing, and their build is awful. Bad skills with no synergy, no elite skill, etc. Better to catch this and give them a good build to run so they will be effective. (There are MANY “good builds” for every profession combo, for all content, btw)

2) Knowing what other people were running prevented you from running counter-productive builds within the party. Two ritualists running the same spirit build = essentially one build, since spirits overwrite each other. Too many necromancers running minions and you run out of corpses (required to make minions in GW1), essentially making the same problem. Two Paragons running Save Yourselves! builds was redundant. Things like this.

I know that there were problems with people requiring “THIS BUILD NAO” for certain things, but there were also legitimate reasons for requiring pings.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leonard.2867:

Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?

You “need” anti-agony if only to buffer your survival in case you can’t dodge in time. It’s a safety net, so you can be a little sloppy and not be wrecked.

The stats? I’m not sure. I think the +Stats are there because the Infusions may . . . may . . . be overall weaker than gemstones/runes/crests since the Agony resistance takes the place of a stat.

Agony resistance does NOT take the place of a stat.

azizul.8469:

Leonard.2867:

Why not grind for titles like… “I am the most awesome player in Guild Wars 2” instead of gear? Why does it have to be gear based? Why cant I get a title called: “Legendary Dungeon Master”? Where I do all dungeons, claim ‘x’ tokens, and do all of them in sequence without ever dieing? And if I die my achievement towards title will reset. Maybe give me a cool skin with my new title. Why does it have to be +stats?

sPvP is all about Titles, why does this have to fail in PvE?

GW1 used to be about title grind . when I stopped it was around 30/30 titles which grant you title " God Walking Among Mere Mortal". i only managed 23/30 though. it was fun. i heard later it was lifted to 50/50 with a new title.

i’m not sure why GW2 doesn’t follow the same path.

GWAMM still comes at 30 maxed titles. The 50/50 people refer to is the Hall of Monuments points, which counts maxed titles, minipets, armor, weapons, and hero upgrades put into the Hall of Monuments area in Eye of the North from GW1. You can learn more about it at hom.guildwars2.com

1) Ascended gear outrankes exotic in stats by a good 20%. Agony does not replace any stats, it’s merely an additional bonus.

2) Infusions themselves add stats, more depending on the level of rarity of the infusion. Some higher infusions have almost as many stats as an entire other accessory.

Most of the complaints about the Necro have not been resolved. This is something they’ll eventually get around to, but they seem to have been dedicating most of their time to making new content. Not necessarily a bad thing.

The new content itself IS very fun. Fractals are the most awesome experience I’ve ever had in an MMO, and I highly recommend them.

However, the game has shifted in philosophy, and getting top-tier gear now requires immense amounts of time and grind, including RNG factors, and is no longer guaranteed to remain top-tier gear to boot. This for me ruins the game; maybe for you it won’t. Personally, coming from LOTRO and seeing the Agony/Infusion mechanic implemented and failed already in Gloom/Radiance, and coming from the immense similar grind of Aion, I’m very displeased with seeing these detracting elements coming into play in a game that in no way needed them.

Clearly the thread merging to begin with was designed with this in mind: one easy swoop to delete all feedback. Trivializing and ignoring the outcry of your player base is a stupid move, Anet.

Imagine the outcry if you could only progress up to level 60 in dungeons/PvE, and had to WvW or PvP to unlock the rest of your character’s effectiveness. Imagine if you had to play a certain number of hours each week or your character lost levels. Mechanically speaking, this is exactly what’s going on, just under a different mask.

Exactly. I cannot stress enough that the illusion of vertical progression is mechanically EXACTLY the same as horizontal progression, with one notable exception:

Those who do not or cannot participate are punished.

Puffpuff.7390:

Orion.7264:

For example, my necromancer is finished cosmetically (for now; again, I’ve got a wait-and-see approach to newer Legendaries, but none of the current ones really work for his look). I’ve got him geared out with a mixture of dungeon, orders, Halloween, and crafted armor that I think looks very nice, and he’s a Staff + Dagger/Focus necro, so I went with Deathwish, Tear of Grenth, and Gaze. All told, I’d have to check gw2spidy for current prices on the weapons, but his gear is worth somewhere around 50g. That’s not including whatever gold value you want to assign to the work I put in for the dungeon skins. What’s my reward for that work? Every time I play my necro, I get rewarded by thinking: kitten I look pretty bad kitten " I feel that there was plenty of progression for him in getting those items, and I am pleased with the reward that stays with me every time I play. Stat progression on the other hand will not reward me every time I play, it will be a one-time relief of “Finally done grinding for stats, now I can play how I want”, followed by content adjusting itself in difficulty and eventually a new tier outdating the stats I just got. There is no real progression, there’s merely forced invalidation; there’s no achievement, no sense of pride, merely a rest period between periods of required work. Relating cosmetic progression to vertical progression is like relating FINALLY getting that dream car you’ve always wanted to the 15-minute break you get at work.

Gotcha. Like I said, I’ve never played to get a certain style of gear for a character, so I can’t really relate. I usually just play for stats. To me this whole idea of cosmetic upgrades sounds more like putting a ferarri body on a fiero and calling it a dream car.

That analogy doesn’t make much sense, because the stats on the item would be the same as the “top tier stats” you want to chase after. More like the difference between a Ferrari with a really jacked up body that still runs and a Ferrari in pristine condition. Mechanically the same, cosmetically different. Whereas pursuing a stat treadmill with content that gets balanced to maintain the same ratio of effective power would be like Ferrari announcing that their new lineup of vehicles is exactly the same as their old lineup, but that everyone with old Ferrari’s is now required to bring them in to have the engines downgraded.

For example, my necromancer is finished cosmetically (for now; again, I’ve got a wait-and-see approach to newer Legendaries, but none of the current ones really work for his look). I’ve got him geared out with a mixture of dungeon, orders, Halloween, and crafted armor that I think looks very nice, and he’s a Staff + Dagger/Focus necro, so I went with Deathwish, Tear of Grenth, and Gaze. All told, I’d have to check gw2spidy for current prices on the weapons, but his gear is worth somewhere around 50g. That’s not including whatever gold value you want to assign to the work I put in for the dungeon skins. What’s my reward for that work? Every time I play my necro, I get rewarded by thinking: “ kitten I look pretty bad kitten ” I feel that there was plenty of progression for him in getting those items, and I am pleased with the reward that stays with me every time I play. Stat progression on the other hand will not reward me every time I play, it will be a one-time relief of “Finally done grinding for stats, now I can play how I want”, followed by content adjusting itself in difficulty and eventually a new tier outdating the stats I just got. There is no real progression, there’s merely forced invalidation; there’s no achievement, no sense of pride, merely a rest period between periods of required work. Relating cosmetic progression to vertical progression is like relating FINALLY getting that dream car you’ve always wanted to the 15-minute break you get at work.

Puffpuff.7390:

Steely Phil.3952:

Puffpuff.7390:

This was bound to happen anyways. Think about it. It every society there are always different levels of income, ie rich, middle class, poor. Problem is this game becomes pointless and so does any economy if there is a “cap” on how good your gear is (in game) or much money and possessions you can amass (in real life). The elite players of this game, the people who spend all their time playing this game, want to be rewarded with an advantage.

I’ve seen this argument posted a lot; “Always gonna be rich and poor” “If you want the good stuff you have to work for it” “Life isn’t fair”.

I don’t care. That fact that real life is hard and unfair does not mean my game should be hard and unfair. I can think of all sorts of ways to better simulate real life. How about if some accounts have a lower level cap then others due to genetic disease? Or some accounts could just start with a 100g trust fund in the bank while others have to send off 10g every month to support their ailing mother? Every once in a while random characters on your account will just be deleted and you’ll get a message saying they were hit by a yak and killed.

(No personal offense meant Puff. You’re just the most recent one to bring up this argument.)

No offense taken. I understand your counter argument (don’t speak too loudly, Arena net might make your idea a game feature).
First, I would say that the things you mentioned as real life examples are things that someone would have no control over. The argument I was making was that in the game you have control over whether or not you want to be in the elite. There is nothing stopping you from achieving whatever you want in the game. Now there would just be more to achieve. I’m not trying to make the game more “realistic”, I just don’t personally see the fun if there’s no payoff for trying.
Second, when you say you don’t want the game to be hard and unfair, I think its unfair to hold the other gamers back from moving on to bigger and better things. I think its more unfair that the hardcore players don’t get access cooler stuff. I’m not even a hardcore gamer so I’ll never have to make the choice, but I certainly don’t mind them being able to. Good for them.

Either way I’m gonna keep playing so whatever.

They’ve always had access to cooler stuff, just in a cosmetic form and not a stat form. There’s no point to making their rewards statistically superior, because content becomes balanced to that making it meaningless in the end. As someone who does a lot of playing and could reasonably achieve this Ascended stuff if I wanted to, I don’t see why I should be working my kitten off for meaningless numbers rather than cool looking gear, and be punished until I have it by stat disparity. I was planning on grinding and working for Legendaries for most of my characters (if not all, depending on whether the new Legendaries match the aesthetic I’m going for on some), but I don’t see the point in playing a game wherein I HAVE to work and grind for things I don’t want just to be statistically complete.

Steely Phil.3952:

Puffpuff.7390:

This was bound to happen anyways. Think about it. It every society there are always different levels of income, ie rich, middle class, poor. Problem is this game becomes pointless and so does any economy if there is a “cap” on how good your gear is (in game) or much money and possessions you can amass (in real life). The elite players of this game, the people who spend all their time playing this game, want to be rewarded with an advantage.

I’ve seen this argument posted a lot; “Always gonna be rich and poor” “If you want the good stuff you have to work for it” “Life isn’t fair”.

I don’t care. That fact that real life is hard and unfair does not mean my game should be hard and unfair. I can think of all sorts of ways to better simulate real life. How about if some accounts have a lower level cap then others due to genetic disease? Or some accounts could just start with a 100g trust fund in the bank while others have to send off 10g every month to support their ailing mother? Every once in a while random characters on your account will just be deleted and you’ll get a message saying they were hit by a yak and killed.

(No personal offense meant Puff. You’re just the most recent one to bring up this argument.)

Hit by a yak XD

+1 internets to you sir

This was an idea I had myself the other day, and I’m sure many people have had as well. I think tiers can even be left out of it; let the gear be basic rarity, white crap, looking like noob armor. Just give it the stats and upgradeable slots as best in slot gear. This would help Anet in the long run, as it pushes players not only to keep playing to acquire better looking gear to transmute the stats onto, but also to buy fine transmutation stones. Money for Anet, grindless B.I.S. acquisition for all of us who were promised it, cosmetic grind for horizontal progression and end-game reward.

dalendria.3762:

Orion.7264:

I’ll just be playing Skyrim until they do something about Ascended. I’m giving them a couple weeks to respond and revert the stats, after that I’ll get my money back.

hehehe me too. Love Skyrim. I started my 3rd playthrough last week. Also, trying to finish Assassin’s Creed over the holiday.

Have not logged in since late Sunday. May avoid this weekend as well.

Just bought Dawnguard and Hearthfire with money I otherwise would have spent on GW2 stuff. Interested to see what’s coming with the Dragonborn expansion Dec 5!

I’ll just be playing Skyrim until they do something about Ascended. I’m giving them a couple weeks to respond and revert the stats, after that I’ll get my money back.

Febrizzio.8024:

if max stat gear easy to be obtained… so what should i do on my lvl 80 character? I already finish my story, have max stat gear (because easy), complete the map, what next?

it’s kinda boring if just only do PvP/WvW….

• just ask, no offense

Pursue cosmetic rewards, which are all your “max stat” grinding would be in the end anyway. Except they last! Max your crafting. Do dungeons. Collect miniatures to form a tiny army. There’s a ton of stuff to do man, I don’t need to list it all out here… dunno why people think grinding for max stats is the be-all, end-all of end-game content. It’s not content, it’s a prerequisite to experiencing content, you’ve only been conditioned to believe that you’re actually doing something by the terrible design gimmicks for player-retention implemented by subscription MMO’s from the dinosaur age.

If they try to pull the “past the 6 month deadline” crap, take them to small claims. You have not had 6 months of possession of the product, the product was not delivered to you any sooner, and money did not change hands until the product actually shipped. They have no legal basis for denying refunds for pre-purchasers, and they know it. If you push, they WILL cave.

maaprid.2168:

Kinda funny, as soon as my husband and I completed that puzzle and got the “Under New Management” achievement we both looked at each other with a “hmmmm, That’s how we’re feeling about this game!”

It really feels like someone in the higher ups just said "OMG Make something quick, make a wow clone!, give them gear grind! Hurry, and give them lots of good drops after the final event so they will say “oooooh Shinies!!”

I have yet to do a fractals, I…just really want to pretend it doesn’t exist, but the constant spam is very annoying. Plus I need to do it if I want to finish my monthly =/

While I sympathize with you, and personally don’t really feel like logging in to play anymore, I will say that Fractals are a ton of fun. Really great content; shame they’re tied to this horrific new gear tier.