He is right … Anet does many things quite competently, so what you are suggesting is that they just flick a switch and get incompetent all of the sudden and can’t do a good job? That’s not logical.
They do many things quite competently, but none of them are related to balancing.
Now, you think i’m making excuses for them.
Yeah, pretty much. You’re basically saying the balance is kitten by design.
You can label those reasons I provided however you like, but you’re assuming this weapon inbalance is problem … but it’s not.
I disagree.
It hasn’t been a problem for 4 years in this game … and countless other in other games.
I disagree.
It’s what happens when devs offer choices to players with different purposes. Interpreting that as incompetence is ignorant.
A competent developer can provide choices that are different from each other whilst still being balanced in relation to each other. But I see you’re not going to budge, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
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Here we go again…
Merriam-Webster says about ability: “the power or skill to do something”
By definition, if they don’t have the opportunity, they don’t have the power, which means they don’t have the ability. Please stop.
incompetent? nah
malicious? lol.…undermanned? neglectful? yeahhhhhhhh.
Incompetence according to Merriam-Webster: “lack of the ability to do something well”
Whether it’s due to lack of skill or because they’re undermanned doesn’t really matter.
As to “malicious”, of course I don’t believe they’re actively trying to sabotage their own game, but it’s the only alternative to incompetence that I can think of (and those patch notes do make you wonder sometimes…).
I don’t really see your point to be honest. OK, let’s assume you’re right, and ArenaNet is either terrible at balancing or they actually don’t try to balance stuff relative to each other and instead work off of god knows what metric.
Then what? Is that supposed to be an excuse? Is that supposed to make our complaints less valid? Either option is equally terrible, and it doesn’t provide a solution to anything. Should we just accept it because “that’s not how they balance weapons”?
I find your logic extremely unsound.
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Yeah, you could, but it wouldn’t matter because that’s not how weapons are balanced.
Hey look guys, we’ve got a dev here—what was that? You’re not on the dev team? Oh, I guess you were just talking out of your kitten .
if balancing a weapon was based on how ‘on par’ it is with something else, why are there SO many weapons in this game that have different levels of performance?
Incompetence. Perfectly good explanation right there. Or did you believe there was some grand scheme behind making some weapons utterly subpar, even relative to other weapons within the same profession?
I think my question points at two options:
1. Anet is terrible at balancing according to relative powers of other weapons
2. Anet doesn’t balance weapons according to relative powers of other weapons
As I see it, yes, there are two options: ArenaNet are either incompetent or actively malicious, at least when it comes to balancing engineer. The engineer section of the last balance patch read like a cruel joke; meaningless buffs like more power damage to condition skills and damage increases to an escape skill (a skill which arguably would be more effective without dealing damage) coupled with nerfs to scrapper gyros (because “purity of purpose”).
Meanwhile, entire skill categories (like turrets and most gadgets) and weapons (like rifle and pistol/shield) are completely useless in every game mode, but do they receive any changes? Nope. I realize engineer isn’t the only profession suffering from this, but that is hardly an excuse.
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I can only agree with coro. You’d have to be delusional to think engineer rifle is in a good spot right now.
I can only imagine the smack-talking now:
“Dost thou even hoist, brother?”
I really wonder where this idea that roleplayers talk like they’re in a Shakespeare play originated from.
1: We have nothing unique to bring to the game.
Same can be said for most classes. The only unique things I can think of? Necro has (I think) exclusive access to boon corruption. Mesmer to alacrity. That’s it. Everything else at least one other class has access to in some appreciable amount.
Necro has Epidemic, which makes them a better choice for condi DPS than engineer most of the time. Mesmer has alacrity and quickness. Revenant has increased boon duration buff. Warrior has Phalanx Strength for building might and Empower Allies and banners for buffing. Ranger has healing and skills and traits that buff allied DPS. Tempests have (or had) insane DPS (still top tier). Guardians can provide permanent protection.
Which leaves engineer and thief. With the latest patch, thief might get a slot instead of a tempest in a raid, not sure. Engineer sure as hell won’t though.
2. You could remove engi from the game, and no one (but engi players) would notice or care.
That statement can be said for every class. Seriously. The only people who care about a class are the ones that play it. No one but mesmer players would miss mesmer if it was removed even with its exclusive access to alacrity (oh and portal, yay…)
Every single player who does raids would miss mesmers if they were removed.
3. Anything we do someone else can do better.
Then why is our condi build the top condition damage build across the game, and most desired in that role? It is in almost every raid group list I ever see.
Condition engineer is only really desirable at Vale Guardian, and even then necromancers can do the job just as well, or better. So no.
4. It requires a lot of work….
Umm… if you got past level 40 without figuring that out, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s Engi. We have access to more skills at any given time than any other class (even elementalist). There is a price to be paid for that many options at your fingertips. That is the nature of the class and has been since the beginning of GW2. Complaining about that now… I don’t see the point.
The point is, it requires a lot of work for being subpar. Other professions can do what we do, better and easier. Basically, even if an engineer does his rotation 100% optimally (which he won’t) he still won’t do more DPS than a tempest, nor does he bring any unique buffs. Would you pick the engineer for a raid team?
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It’s funny how you use anecdotal evidence and more or less made up “facts” to prove your point. Seriously, most of the things you present as facts in this thread you have no way of knowing unless you literally work at Arenanet. Since you obviously don’t, we can only assume that these facts were rectally extracted.
That said, I wouldn’t be against resetting MMR. I wish they’d just get rid of pips, do matchmaking purely by MMR and have each division be represented by a certain MMR range. It’s how most other competitive games do it. Banning free2play accounts from sPvP is a terrible idea though.
Maybe so, but then it’s a kitten troll attempt.
Run Paladin’s Amulet, Bulwark Gyro and hammer and use Rocket Charge and Acid Bomb with water fields and I don’t really see how you can complain about dying too quickly.
Well ele is suppose to be one of the most complex classes, if ele isnt complex anymore what is?
Engineer is.
The only thing I had close to that trouble with as kit engineer. Which these days isn’t really the way to play engineer anyway lol.
Uh, there’s basically no viable engineer build that doesn’t use kits. You could probably play a kitless scrapper for WvW and PvP though (I still wouldn’t want to drop Elixir Gun though).
Any man noted for his feats of courage or nobility of purpose; especially, one who has risked or sacrificed his life.
I could go on typing. Note that the individual is emphasized time and again. Not once does this passage mention a group.
You can perform feats of courage and risk your life in a group too, you know.
Second, if the game is not to be directed by it’s own narrative, then how will it be directed? If the storyline and the actual game are out of sync, you lose one of the principle attractions of gw2 and it becomes another “streetfighter” type video game.
Well ideally the narrative should fit the gameplay, which is a bit late for a game that has been out for almost four years. For all intents and purposes, sPvP and WvW exists outside the narrative and is only flimsily explained with “the Mists”.
Personally I think that the idea of having a developer made story arc for your character in an MMO is a bad way to do it and is better left for single-player games. Instead the players should dynamically create their own story through interaction. EVE Online is a good example of how to do it, in my opinion. But, that’s very off-topic and a discussion for another time.
The narrative of being a hero is reinforced from the very first. Every single race and division, be it noble vs commoner or which college a character represents, is introduced as a hero. In fact, the first act in-game is to distinguish oneself individually.
Congratulations, you managed to reply to this part:
According to you, yes, and this isn’t the first time you’ve espoused this view. I’ve never seen stated anywhere that Guild Wars is about heroes or heroism or some such kitten.
… but managed to completely ignore this part:
Edit: and even if it was, the narrative has little bearing on the gameplay in most MMOs. A lot of MMOs do single-player RPG style storylines about a lone hero or a group of heroes, whilst simultaneously being set in a world with thousands of players, all of which are supposedly the lone hero. It’s called Ludonarrative dissonance, and it’s a poor argument for removing teamplay from a game mode based on teamplay.
I have never been interested in being part of a herd, following a “commander.” That’s in no way heroic. If I wanted that, I’d go to any one one of several institutions on Sunday.
I don’t know how being part of a five-man group of equals is “being part of a herd” or “following a commander”, but whatever floats your boat. Also you might want to look up the definition of “heroic”, because you seem to be making up your own definitions. There’s nothing in there about a hero being “lonely” or anything to support your agenda, really.
PvP players speak constantly about “skill.” The reality is that teams disguise poor skills.
Teams also introduce social networking as a factor in winning.
Again, you completely ignore what I said in my previous post. I guess it was inconvenient so you decided not to address it.
If the goal is to test and exhibit skill, then solo queue is the logical format. This would allow team play. Yet it would not allow pre organized groups to more – or – less bully non teamed players.
Yes, it would allow very basic teamplay, sure.
I dislike the idea of all team for a couple of reasons;
Teams carry. If the goal is to test the skill of the player, that goal is distorted by the addition of teams. This is especially true when a team goes against randoms.
… playing in a team is a skill.
Philosophically, GW2 is allegedly about heroes. Almost by definition, a hero is a loner.
I don’t want to be beholden to a “commander.” That view is shared by many, I think.
According to you, yes, and this isn’t the first time you’ve espoused this view. I’ve never seen stated anywhere that Guild Wars is about heroes or heroism or some such kitten.
Edit: and even if it was, the narrative has little bearing on the gameplay in most MMOs. A lot of MMOs do single-player RPG style storylines about a lone hero or a group of heroes, whilst simultaneously being set in a world with thousands of players, all of which are supposedly the lone hero. It’s called Ludonarrative dissonance, and it’s a poor argument for removing teamplay from a game mode based on teamplay.
I think a pure solo queue is the best option. With ANET pushing “group” content and trying to change the direction of GW2, I doubt they will do this.
Group content? In an MMO? Great Scott! What will they come up with next…
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Something like Huttball would be cool. Man, Huttball was fun.
@Pakkazull
Your quote makes the point.
“When the PvP League season begins, everyone will have an opportunity to follow the Path of the Ascension to earn the new PvP legendary backpiece.”
It says “everyone.” No, it doesn’t say anyone. This is almost a tautology. In any case, anyone is included in everyone.
I don’t really know what you’re grasping at here. My point had nothing to do with the distinction between everyone and anyone, I used them interchangeably (perhaps incorrectly). But whatever, you’re clearly going to keep pushing your agenda no matter what anyone else, or common sense, says.
Let’s continue… “You don’t need to be the most skilled player to earn it, but highly skilled players will find that they can progress through the Path of the Ascension faster.”
It does not say “only those who are worthy” or anything of the kind. The backpack was clearly not presented as something for elite players only.
And it’s true, the wings aren’t something for elite players only. But that doesn’t mean it’s for everyone.
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The wings were to be available to anyone. I’ve worked harder for them than most and therefore, I do deserve them.
First, the wings were advertised as available to everyone. They should therefore be available to everyone. My case illustrates that they are not.
You keep pushing the idea that “the wings are for everyone” day after day, and yet I haven’t actually managed to find such a statement from Arenanet. The closest I’ve found are these quotes from the Leagues season 1 announcement:
“When the PvP League season begins, everyone will have an opportunity to follow the Path of the Ascension to earn the new PvP legendary backpiece.”
Note how it says that everyone will have an opportunity to earn the new PvP legendary backpiece.
“You don’t need to be the most skilled player to earn it, but highly skilled players will find that they can progress through the Path of the Ascension faster.”
It does say that you don’t have to be the most skilled player to earn it, that is true, but nowhere does it state that anyone will be able to earn it.
Sticker Happy is stuck in Sapphire !?! Wow… I’m amazed. That makes me feel a bit better about the morass I’m in though.
Here’s a player that I know is good, stuck in the same place I am.
You do realize this thread is six months old, right? It’s from season 1, which used a different matchmaking system, meaning it doesn’t apply to this season at all.
Could have*
/15 chars
I know full well what you meant, that’s why I laughed. Do you honestly think ArenaNet has the skills, time and resources to make AI good enough to outclass the best human players? No. I mean, sure, we can make AI that can beat human players in chess and Go, but those are 1v1 games that, while complex, have relatively simple rules.
Maybe a potential method of balancing could be running some sort of adaptive AI programs.
I laughed.
I know this is off-topic, but why the kitten do you spam so many exclamation marks? It’s obnoxious.
Go seek treatment for phobias.
I really wonder whether people take MMOs too seriously.
Nothing is real, not the gold the weapons the skins nothing.
When you leave the game you cant take it with you.
Having a gazillion gold means nothing.
No one cares.
The exact same sentiment could be applied to life itself. Nothing matters and no one cares, except for what you choose to care about.
I would suggest to match a premade team like that to the lowest tier player, I come up with the same matching way too often.
Really? You want to enable Legendary division players the ability to face off against Amber players and be rewarded for it? FYI, it worked like you say in season 1 and it was changed for a reason. The way it works now is clearly the lesser evil.
No.
None of that.
Elements designed to encensivize you to play different systems should be short and sweet, achievable within a day or so, not over several months.
Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
In current terms, the “Recruit’s Wings of Glory” is probably a perfectly fine goal along those lines. They cost ten tickets, which you can get by passing out of Amber division. If you get through Amber and still aren’t having fun, then you shouldn’t have to stick around.
No one is having a gun held to their head.
Edit: lol, don’t really know why I bother; you’ve had this crusade going for ages. But it’s good fun I guess.
Without division drops, and with all the current pip and tier safeguards, matchmaking below (and to some extent in) Ruby is completely useless. If they want a truly competitive ranking system and matchmaking that actually works, they’ll have to drop the safeguards OR, as others have suggested, match and rank purely by MMR. Either way, they’re going to have to rework how the league rewards currently function.
Here’s a better idea, MMR reset ever season.
I don’t see how it would solve the issue. MMR reset or no, the first three divisions would still be largely useless for matchmaking. I’m fine with having one “safe” division (i.e. Amber), but three?
I really don’t get it.
You don’t get what?
if you are that good, you’ll be in legendary by now, if not, well, maybe your not as good as you think you are.
Lol, what does this have to do with anything? Where did this even come from?
A condition build with no kits and only pistols – why not take Chemical Rounds?
and engi condi dps is mainly burn so balthazar is basically a must have as runes
He won’t really be doing much burning damage without bomb kit and flamethrower, so Balthazar runes are pretty much wasted.
This match system is ridiculous, it is impossible to win for 5 rubies against 5 diamonds.
No, it’s not impossible.
Why can’t asura look like this? If humans, norn, and sylvari can enjoy revealing swimsuits, asura and even charr should enjoy it as well. There needs to be some balance in looks.
What, you want them to look exactly like humans but with slightly different heads? No thanks. If anything, there are too many human-like races already (i.e. Norn are basically big humans and sylvari are green humans with leaf hair). And please, for god’s sake, don’t tell me you want charr to have boobs too.
Edit: in hindsight, I’m actually wondering if this is a troll post or not.
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3. Allow division drops – Same as above, and even more important.
Hell no!
Without division drops, and with all the current pip and tier safeguards, matchmaking below (and to some extent in) Ruby is completely useless. If they want a truly competitive ranking system and matchmaking that actually works, they’ll have to drop the safeguards OR, as others have suggested, match and rank purely by MMR. Either way, they’re going to have to rework how the league rewards currently function.
If I misread the patch notes, forget this thread. But this seems really unfair, since I selected my stats barely two days ago. (berserker)
They added more stat combos to the legendary, not the ascended.
Matching first timers who .. i dont even know how … climbed into ruby, with average players who understand the mechanics of the game and try to play the game.
Pip and tier safeguards all the way to Ruby + inability to drop divisions is how. For all intents and purposes, the league doesn’t even begin until Ruby (which basically makes matchmaking below Ruby completely useless).
1. Add a pre-season/booster system – To hopefully alleviate the initial stompfest.
2. Remove all pip safeguards – For more accurate matchmaking.
3. Allow division drops – Same as above, and even more important.
4. Allow queueing in open world – So that we don’t have to stand around for several minutes at a time doing nothing. (Alternative: add some fun mini-games or something. I’d settle for some cool adventures in the PvP lobby)
5. Stop the power creep – I’d love to be able to play rifle engineer again, but it’s just plain worse than scrapper.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for weapon skills, Q for healing, shift+1, shift+2, shift+3 for utilities, E for elite.
Toolbelt skills are shift+Q, shift+E, R, C and shift+E. The other keybinds (target call, etc) are just standard. Well, except A and D are strafe, but that’s just standard for anyone who ever plays PvP in an MMO.
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We don’t need even more safeguards. If anything, we need fewer safeguards to make matchmaking more accurate.
It would be interesting if this led to substantive shifts away from the “PvP balance is God” mentality at ANet, and some genuine PvE-centric mechanics overhauls.
Or at the very least a shift more towards PvP as a “fun” activity that players are meant to “enjoy,” rather than a competitive sporting event.
Thing is, “fun” is subjective (which might be why you put the quotes there, I don’t know) and the competitive aspect is, in my opinion, the main reason to enjoy PvP in the first place.
matches u generally get from legendary queues are actually pretty good at the moment but u just have to wait eternity to get a queue pop. but i might rather just have diamond like queues because there simply isnt enough players with high enough mmr (or are climbing rly slow).
Except im not legendary yet but diamond with 6 pips. I dont play gw often atm, part of the reason are these incredible q timers.. lol
What? Are you playing in the middle of the night or something? EU or NA? I’m around 15 pips into Diamond and I usually have 2-5 minutes queue times. One time in the last tier of Ruby I had between 15-30 minutes queue time, but that was between 4 and 7 in the morning.
Ok, didn’t know that about S1, thanks.
I do have to admit, climbing the ladder would be extremely hard if you were always in even matches.
I think I’m beginning to see the way this system will work out, allowing everyone to settle in at their skill level as things go along. But that’s going to take a couple of weeks to settle out since not everyone is playing every day.
The fact that you can get matched into a fight that is hopeless is still frustrating as all… and having that happen again and again over a couple of weeks can’t be good for “noob retention” in PvP.
Ok, so there’s no easy fix…
The problem is, people may never settle in at their appropriate level because you can’t drop divisions. If someone somehow were to be boosted into a division above their skill level, they’ll never be able to de-rank, not to mention that all the safeguards in the lowest three divisions make them practically useless for matchmaking.
This is like S1, which was a flop and in no way represented skill. The current system is fine, it just needs to boost better players into higher divisions faster, or directly place them there based on the previous season.
Honestly, nothing needs to be rewritten, except the fact that new players start with an average MMR. They’ll get placed with actually average people and drag them down. This works fine for Unranked, where people need to learn, but it has no place in Ranked, which is basically a competition.
They also need to implement division drops, and arguably remove the pip safeguards in the lower tiers (unless they only want ruby, diamond and legend to be competitive).
That’s the other side of the current “competitive” matchmaking. The extreme stomps are keeping a lot of people from advancing. Those folks who thought the system would provide great matches at the top are proven wrong.
How exactly are stomps keeping people from advancing? It stands to reason that if some people are constantly getting stomped, others must be advancing as a result. You can’t have a round without a winner.
That’d basically just take us back to the season 1 system. Sure, that’s exactly what some players want, but it’d defeat the purpose of the current setup.
2) Scrap MMR entirely and base all matchmaking on pip tiers alone. The benefit of this method is that not much has to be changed. MMR and pip loss safety nets would have to be cut, including the protection against division demotion.
I would prefer ranking purely by MMR, but this seems more likely to be the system Arenanet would implement, if any. Removing safety nets is essential though, and I’m not sure if they would ever do that. Also, the first week or two would be a crapfest similar in magnitude to the start of season 2, but perhaps that could be alleviated with a pre-season.
I’m always best in red team because I run with my necromancer between far and close to cap points.
I’ll work on it to make it more obvious, I promise
Look, there’s so much frankly kittened kitten floating around on the internet, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was an honest statement.
The best score means you did the most usefull things.
I’m always best in red team because I run with my necromancer between far and close to cap points. Why would you want to remove it? It’s a good indicator to show how good and experienced you are.No, it really doesn’t.
To give an exaggerated example, if I 1v3 on close the entire game without killing anyone, I’ll end up with 10 points, while the rest of my team farms 4v2 and ends up with loads of points. Who is more useful in this scenario, me or my team?
This is literally the only argument you people can come up with. No one in this game can 1v3 ok no one so stop using that as an argument. Yes personal score should be taken with a grain of salt but usually it’s a good indicator to how useful you are.
It’s a valid enough argument. Like I said, it was an exaggerated example, but the same thing still happens for people who bunker 1v1 or 1v2. The game rewards decaps, caps and kills, it does in no way reward actually holding points, which is an integral part of the game.
Yeah, if someone has like a score of 0 at the end of the game, they’re probably not all that useful, but otherwise I’d say score is pretty much meaningless. And who gives a kitten, anyway? Winning is what matters, not jerking off over how high a score you got.
I would rather give you the advice to watch some wikipedia-articles about sarcasm, but ok go ahead.
It’s sometimes borderline impossible to detect sarcasm in text, especially on the internet.
I think the ability to drop ranks would destroy the play. Like many others, I’m an average to below average skilled PvP player. I come for some fun and to grind for those shiny wings. If it were possible to lose ranks, I’d still be in Amber and most likely would have quit by now.
GW2 isn’t filled with highly competitive PvP players. For me at least, the main draw is the story telling and the pve. I suspect that’s true of many Tyrians.
Dropping ranks would alienate players and would likely reduce population to the point that pvp wouldn’t really work.
In a system that matches players based on their position in the league, being able to drop divisions is absolutely essential for more accurate matchmaking.
The best score means you did the most usefull things.
I’m always best in red team because I run with my necromancer between far and close to cap points. Why would you want to remove it? It’s a good indicator to show how good and experienced you are.
No, it really doesn’t.
To give an exaggerated example, if I 1v3 on close the entire game without killing anyone, I’ll end up with 10 points, while the rest of my team farms 4v2 and ends up with loads of points. Who is more useful in this scenario, me or my team?